UDEZE

[The Skinsinator]

What is the real scoop on Udeze? I know had 16 1/2 sacks last year? I have heard he is very good, but doesn't seems to consistently get the high reviews of Winslow or Taylor. You just can't lose by getting either of those guys.

[RedskinRyan]

welcome to hR

1 - we need udeze
2 - we dont need winslow/tayloir

[Smiley]

We do need Taylor. We also need Udeze. Who's better?

[TexSkin]

Welcome to HR The Skinsinator, hope you stick around

[Skinsfan1906]

Originally posted by Smiley
We do need Taylor. We also need Udeze. Who's better?

Yep. I think that Udeze is more of a pressing need than Taylor, but Taylor is more of an impact player (IMO) and is a (lesser) need as well. I'm a Taylor fan and hope we draft him, but wouldn't be opposed to Udeze. I just don't wan't Winslow. He is not a prototypical NFL tight end (more of a glorified WR).

[RichardBradley]

I have a feeling that we are going to trade down and not get any of these guys... With Brunell, Coles, Portis, Samules, Jamsen, Thomas, Arrington, Trotter, Springs, Griffin, and all the other overpaid players we have we need to trade down and get some guys who will play for cheap.

[skinsfanincali]

Welcome, skinsinator.
A lot will depend, I believe, on the scheme or defensive system Coach Williams wants to run.

[sammy]

It will also depend on what we get offered for our pick, if the offer is good enough we will trade down and take Udeze if not we will stay where we are and take Taylor. I really doubt we will take Udeze at the #5 spot

[Redskinfan28]

Originally posted by RedskinRyan
welcome to hR

1 - we need udeze
2 - we dont need winslow/tayloir

Udeze has a good chance to be a bust.

[WinslowRedskin]

Taylor has the best shot IMO to be the Defensive Rook of next year, and he could become the next Ronnie Lott.

[skinswin]

Originally posted by RedskinRyan
welcome to hR

1 - we need udeze
2 - we dont need winslow/tayloir


We do not need Taylor. We have absolutely nothing at the DE position.

We desperatly need to upgrade at the DE position.

[Green-Is-Good]

Even if we don't re-sign Ohalete, I don't want us to draft Taylor. I would rather start Andre Lott behind a solid d-line than start Sean Taylor behind a sub par d-line.

[Jon Creveling]

Who knows what their plan is? They may even not know 100% at the moment. Know alot of guys are pulling for Taylor but we realy need help on the line, in a bad way! Feel pinched by the lack of draft choices this year. I understand the want for Taylor but our need is too pressing! To wait until June for cuts may be suicide and doom the season before it begins!!!! No amount of coaching, X's and O's can get around the fact that Martin Chase and Wynn and some guy that sits out all year with a bad thumb?(Haley) and a guy with now a timebomb knee(Nobel) comprise the d-line. I'd be very happy to see them draft Udeze or Wilfork or similar talent if they trade down. To tell the truth in my dreamworld masterplan, a plan is in place to somehow get Udeze and Wilfork! The line has been neglected for years,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,at some point it must be addressed!!! Start this April!!!!!

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

I think Udeze won't solve our DL issues. IMO at the draft we must upgrade some position, and we cannot pass on the talent of Sean Taylor. I think the FO thinks a lot that way right now, my only doubt is if he will still be around by #5.

[RedskinRyan]

Originally posted by Green Is Good
Even if we don't re-sign Ohalete, I don't want us to draft Taylor. I would rather start Andre Lott behind a solid d-line than start Sean Taylor behind a sub par d-line.

my opinions

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

If the FO thought that it is such a pressing need like a lot people say, wouldn't they push a lot harder for a DE instead of a LB?? Or are you people saying that Joe Gibbs & Co. don't know what they're doing? Maybe in the scheme that Gibbs & Williams have planned, they don't need more than they already have.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Or maybe they are waiting to trade down & draft a DL, thing that I doubt. If that's the case, so be it. I trust in them, but I think that Sean Taylor is the way to go. Just let's not get Udeze, nor any other DL, with the 5th overall. They are not worth it.

[Green-Is-Good]

If no one wants the 5th pick, we should still draft DL. Honestly, are you happy with Daniels, Haley, Griffin, and Upshaw starting?

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

If Gibbs is happy, I am too. Honestly.

[Jon Creveling]

I agree with G.I.G. if you get somehow stuck with the 5th! Didn't a career day for Troy Hambrick open any eyes?????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????????????? Oh G.I.G. my guess if that does in fact happen, Wilfork for a 3-4D, Udeze for a 4-3 D.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Maybe, but Udeze or Wilfork(!) with the 5th OVERALL??? Never is gonna happen. Only if we trade down.

[Green-Is-Good]

Wilfork for a 3-4? But we have Griffin. Unless you are implying that Wilfork may play out of position.

[natgbz]

You gotta be realistic: Taylor is a luxury. Our line is still weak (Daniels Noble Griffin Upshaw) and a solid lineman outta college would give the D a bigger boost than Sean Taylor would (Ifeanyi Ohalete is really starting to perform as well).

[Jon Creveling]

G.I.G. was guessing nosetackle if indeed we are heading towards a 3-4. Just a guess though! Who on the roster today can you guys see as n.t.? Note! Not that it means anything but TSN has Udeze ranked 9th and Wilfork 12th in their best of draft. In their mock they have us picking Udeze, again it's a mock.

[guinness4health]

Originally posted by LaVarGreen2856
I think Udeze won't solve our DL issues. IMO at the draft we must upgrade some position, and we cannot pass on the talent of Sean Taylor. I think the FO thinks a lot that way right now, my only doubt is if he will still be around by #5.

i am with you udeze won't solve our DL issues,
besides i am not worried about our d-line getting pressure, besides adams can anyone name one other person on buffalo's d-line from last year? and they had the second best defensive football.
udeze is not going to get more than 5 sacks next year, while washington is going to get that from the LB/DE position.

we will get pressure from our linebacks and safety. We will have a decend defensive line, remember that wynn is solid, that upshaw was coming off an injury that slowed him for much of the season but he should be back to form and will be able to push the pocket, daniels is stout against the run, noble if healthy is a run stuffer who knows his role (occupy blockers), a haley is solid against the run, and griffin can very easily be a stud, and at the very least he is going to be solid.
if we pick up gardener or even kenny holmes and we will be set.
we could still use a young speed defensive end, but those types of guys can be found or uncovered (use the fifth rounder or pick up an undrafted free agent rookie, or find one after the first round of cuts, how the hell you think we got L. Jackson or N D Kalu.

DRAFT TAYLOR< HE WILL MAKE THE DIFFERENCE>
UDEZE whould spend more time watching than playing.

[guinness4health]

Originally posted by Green Is Good
If no one wants the 5th pick, we should still draft DL. Honestly, are you happy with Daniels, Haley, Griffin, and Upshaw starting?

yes because they are solid, and we got solid depth with noble, wynn, etc,

and two outside linebackers who can play de in nickel, and provide tons of pressure the rest of the time.

draft taylor to solidify the secondary

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

By the way, anybody knows something about Ladarius Jackson?

[Green-Is-Good]

We all saw the end result of a solid cast of LBs and DBs behind a poor line. A 5-11 record. We should have learned from experience.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

One difference:

Spurrier & Edwards vs. Gibbs & Williams & Lindsey & etc.

[Green-Is-Good]

Well, shouldn't the guys in our secondary be better as well? That is not an excuse to not address a weakness.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Agree, but let's dont bring records that occur because here were college boys messing with pro men.

I hope we will bring somebody else for the DL via FA, and UPGRADE our S's via draft.

[Green-Is-Good]

WHy upgrade an area where no upgrade is needed? Just re-sign our RFAs.

[TwistyNiblet]

We don't really need Udeze - we can address that through the June 1st cuts.

[Green-Is-Good]

Originally posted by TwistyNiblet
We don't really need Udeze - we can address that through the June 1st cuts.

I am not willing to take that risk. And who says that Daniels is guarranteed a starting job?

[PA Skins Girl]

Originally posted by TwistyNiblet
We don't really need Udeze - we can address that through the June 1st cuts.
Does anyone actually know what DE's are expected to be available after June1? Or, are we just assuming there will be quality DE's available?

[Green-Is-Good]

Courtney Brown of Cleveland is a possible cut.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

That's not exactly quality. Are we really willing to base our QB pressure on the performance of Courtney Brown?

[Green-Is-Good]

Besides, who's to say he will actually get cut? We can't take such a gamble.

[Redskinfan28]

Udeze is a project. He cannot be counted on to be an impact player next year, no more than Courtney Brown would.

[GloryHog]

Originally posted by TwistyNiblet
We don't really need Udeze - we can address that through the June 1st cuts.

That's what we thought last year and we wound up screwing ourselves. I for one, don't want to count on that route again.

Bottom line, if you don't have solid offensive and defensive lines you're not going to be winning any superbowls.

The coaches may make some difference, but facts are facts.

1. You can't coach speed and power.
2. The coaches can't play, they just coach (see #1 above)

[colkurtz]

Udeze had 16.5 sacks at USC - that shows something. He will do extremely well at his workout at USC. He has real talent, is young and will be selected in the first 15 draft picks (probably higher).

The Redskins can NOT pick up a high-quality DE through FA - we do not have the cap money. The 'high-end' DE FAs have been extremely expensive. Only through the draft will we get a premium DE (and we have enough to afford him).

Is Udeze a guaranteed success? No. Will he be a perennial pro bowler? Unknown. The only sure thing is that he will compete and start for this team at DE. He has the potential to anchor this ragged line and be a major addition to re-building one of the worst DL's in the NFL. Daniels and Griffin are decent acquisitions, but Udeze or Smith will improve this line instantly and for the long-term.
Last year Suggs was drafted by the Ravens and as a rookie had 12 sacks. Udeze could possibly be as good or even better than Suggs.

Is Taylor a sure thing? Probably..., but this team should know as well as any, that there are NO SURE draft picks.

An good/excellent DE is worth more to the defense than an outstanding FS. Period. Only if there is a decent DL will someone like Taylor look good.

If we draft Taylor, he will definetly be making some very spectacular hits on RB, TEs and WR's........ 5-20 yards down the field. Our only real pass rush will come when we blitz our LB or Safety's. Blitzes get burned, and Taylor will be beat, (like out Pro Bowl CB, Champ Bailey) for some TD's.

Our team's biggest NEED (offense or defense) in the draft is DE, by far. Udeze should be our top choice if his workout is as good as everyone expects. However, Smith had an outstanding workout also - he is another excellent DE draft prospect.

If you are a supporter of BEST AVAILABLE draft pick, then Winslow should be your choice - his workout was superior to Taylors. WII is a better athlete.

Udeze would be an instant starter and will make a good contribution this year. In later years, as he learns his position better, he could rise to the Pro Bowl level and help transform this defense. When was the last time the 'skins had a young, aggressive and superior DE pass rusher? We need one now.
IMHO Udeze or Smith will fill the need.:D

[colkurtz]

The current DE FA market is very expensive and very thin. The Freak is getting paid about 2 mill per sack [last years total]! All the other premium DE's - Wiley, etc also got very, very big signings.............. Are we betting that the DE trend will magically change on June 1?
Are we honestly counting on the fact that there will be NO OTHER teams as desperate as us for the DE's that are let go?

We may get a gem or two on June 1st, or we could over-pay because the DE market is over-heated and we have no other options.

Drafting builds talent from within, which is what we need on this line.

DRAFT UDEZE OR SMITH!
:banghead: :cool:

[Yudolindo]

As much as I think we should draft DL, pickings this year are somewhat slim.

Udeze: He produced in college (16.5 total sacks) gets to the passer, big strong, fast etc. However, he produced in the best (or at least second best) defense in college football on an already excellent line in a weak division with an easy schedule. He is not a natural pass rushing DE (he was a DT who shed weight and got moved to DE) but seems to be coming along. It will be much, much harder for him to get sacks in the NFL and take his college production with a grain of salt: the NFC east is not the PAC-Ten and the Dallas Cowboys are not the University of Hawaii.

Smith: fast, okay size, natural pass rusher, but is really a mid round guy and not an elite prospect.

Harris: did not produce his junior year. To his credit, however, everyone around him did. Big, fast, strong, would be a good complement to Griffin. He has been compared very favorably to Dwayne Roberson. That I guess is a good thing, but Harris seems boom or bust if he is the fifth overall. If he was worth a fifth overall selection, he would have destroyed the double and triple teams that followed him last season. He is not dominant. Lots of questions...

Wilfork: would be great if he was taken around 10-15 and if we opted to run the 3-4. He is quick for someone his size, but is not what I would call a guy who crushes the pocket and gets to the QB. Has small arms so technique for him will really count for a lot.

So, I am not sure any of the above is worth a number five. Three of them, however, are worth 10-15. I am not sure how much we should reach just because we are desperate to fix the d-line.

[colkurtz]

I don't think anyone is saying to take Udeze / Harris / Smith / Wilfork at #5. Trade down to #9-13 (to get the best remaining of these four) AND get a second round pick with it.

If we are casting stones - Taylor had a crappy workout and benched 225 just 11 times. Is he just burned out from working out everday; or did he just read too much of his press which says he is the next Ronnie Lott ?

Do we have to have the 'perfect' DE/DT prospect to draft them this year? Are we so good we don't need one of these premium players desperately? Any of those 4 will start this year, because they are good enough. They will do much better than what we have. They have the potential to be good - outstanding DL players. that's all you get in the draft.

:dalassuk:

[Yudolindo]

I think the question really is if they are in fact "good enough?" It is very much debatable. With a reeling d-line, we need more than decent. Or perhaps we don’t, it’s all up to Greg Williams. I for one am not excited about this year’s d-line prospects.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Originally posted by Green Is Good
Even if we don't re-sign Ohalete, I don't want us to draft Taylor. I would rather start Andre Lott behind a solid d-line than start Sean Taylor behind a sub par d-line.

My man!

[IowaSkinsFan]

Originally posted by The Skinsinator
What is the real scoop on Udeze? I know had 16 1/2 sacks last year? I have heard he is very good, but doesn't seems to consistently get the high reviews of Winslow or Taylor. You just can't lose by getting either of those guys.

Kenechi Udeze lived in the opponents backfield last season, registering 16.5 sacks, including 3 against Michigan in the bowl game. He dropped about 70 pounds to play DE this past season. He was previously a DT. He has the speed to turn the corner, experience playing the run and the ability to put on additional bulk at the pro level.

[Yudolindo]

...and he played for a team with a light schedule...in a light conference…on an already great defense...etc, etc.

My only point is that for every person that talks as if Taylor is a given, there are just as many who make a similar assumption about Udeze. Udeze, however, has more question marks than Taylor.

[kaiser]

Quit your East Coast bias! The Pac-10 won all their bowl games except for UCLA - tells you they were better than everyone thought! USC were the best team in the nation and had the best defence in the nation. Udeze was the best player on that D. Would you care to look up his TFL stats and FF stats?! They tell an interesting story. If he had stayed, he was projected to be a top 3 pick next year - that's how good he is!

His raw talent (strength/speed) is off the charts. His determination and work ethic are shown in the fact that he lost 70+lbs as a frosh to go from a mammoth DT to monster DE, plus he is the stringest player on his team and is a conditioning freak.

What exactly makes you think he won't succeed? Courtney Brown!?! That's a BS excuse - uninformed and uneducated. So he has more question marks than Taylor - a kicker will always have less question marks than a QB.

You talk abt Udeze playing on a strong D, but what about Taylor?! DJ Williams - #1 LB prospect and national #1 prospect out of HS. Vince Wolfolk is one of the top 3 DTs in this draft, and was considered a top 3 pick at the beginning of the season. Yeah, he was the only star on that defense, not!

Lame excuses with no substance.

[badpigs442]

I do like Udeze's track record the more I hear it, but I still think that there could be holes in the secondary. The skins have had skilled secondary men now for sometime. It would not be to their advantage to pass up on the gift that could possibly land in their lap. Heck, I'm looking forward to watching Griffin overacheive and cause everyone to forget how bad our line was supposed to be. :) Despite the fact we have solid starters in the secondary, we have no depth. Therefor, I can find reason for the secondary to be more of a need pick than the D-line.

[lsuredskin]

Take Winslow and outscore the other team.

[Jon Creveling]

There is no depth at the line. Noble=timebomb knee, think Fiore or Mark Schlereth. Wynn=(brightside) semi-solid vs the run,,(gloomy) can not handle any misdirection, blows vs the pass! Haley=wimp that doesn't play because his thumb hurts??? Damn Bill Brundige would have played with his thumb ripped off!!! Something tells me Edwards was covering something up with this dude! Daniels??? Unless you're a part-time Bears fan what do we realy know about him, with his Wynn-like stats? On the brightside maybe he looks like he trys every play!??! Note to Renaldo "man atleast make it look good!". Who knows if Peppi comes back? He started the year good but then went to 'S' as it went on????? Griffin is a very hard working guy, may show alittle more if he responds to Williams. Chase? effort but little talent. Upshaw I think would be a better player, if he had someone of note playing opposite of him( the other de), somebody brought up he started the year off of surgery and factor in that play favorite Bruce b.s. that was going on you can't help but wonder if Regan got pissy with the situation??? Didn't the same thing happen to Ladairus before his injury 2 years ago? You would think Williams and assistants would make a difference in some of these guys, but all of them??? That's very wishful! Myself I don't think waiting until June is smart, we could leave emptyhanded,,,,it's happened before. If there is any doubt or wishes for superstar safetys, that's cool, but I'd feel better if they drafted linemen,,, Think Troy Hambrick!!!

[colkurtz]

A recap for those living in a coccon: Our DL was one of the worst in the NFL last season = 27th rated defense overall; Champ Bailey gets burned for 8 TD's

This FA period we have improved the line modestly AND it will be far better coached = how much of an actual improvement for our defense this season? we may be able to move into the top half of the league defensively. It is not good enough to take us anywhere in the playoffs.

Last season we waited until June 1 FA to improve our Dline - total bust / nothing; and now some of you urge us to do this AGAIN!!

Will Taylor do any better with this Dline than Champ Bailey did last year (remember Sean is a rookie!)?

I want to see Donovan running for his life or sacked, like the GB playoff game!

[colkurtz]

Mantra to say again and again:

A good/excellent DE is more important to a defense than an outstanding FS....

Udeze will almost certainly be good/excellent and he has the potential to develop into a Pro Bowler. Wait until you see his March 24 workout number at USC. He will run the 40 in 4.6-4.7.
OBTW - S. Taylor only ran it in a 4.5 (injury they say).

[Jon Creveling]

Your shot at McNabb, man I'd like to commission Upshaw to cheap-shot his ass for the happy-dance crap he pulled in the endzone!!! The G.B. game you brought up,,,,was greatly impressed with the guy with the potbelly!!! Grady Jackson!!! What a wrecking ball! Even with all that weight, that guy didn't stop till the final play! That guy at R.D.E. for the Pack was too light and got destroyed, buried on more than a few plays though.

[colkurtz]

We have not drafted a Defensive Lineman in over a DECADE. when are we going to start?

Do we have anyone on our DL who strikes fear into the heart of a QB or offensive coordinator? Anyone who deserves a double team to absorb O Lineman, allowing LaVar or Marcus to blitz in open lanes [Griffin possibly may get a double-team]?

One excellent or outstanding DLineman can change our defense - look at what Gardener did in 2002.

Udeze could be that man. Workout numbers like "the Freak', only 20; big enough to stop the run, a workout fiend; and a superior college career.

What's not to like? He will fill the biggest hole in our team - by far.



:eaglesuk:

[akhhorus]

Originally posted by robert
Kenechi Udeze lived in the opponents backfield last season, registering 16.5 sacks, including 3 against Michigan in the bowl game. He dropped about 70 pounds to play DE this past season. He was previously a DT. He has the speed to turn the corner, experience playing the run and the ability to put on additional bulk at the pro level.

I liked what I saw in Udeze, BUT he looks like he was just physically better than the tackles he faced. He didnt seem to overwhelm with techniques, which is a red flag.

[badpigs442]

The D-line could be better with the experience of last year. We know the sec lost ability by losing Champ. Sec would benefit from a player there, and not on the line.

[kaiser]

Can learn technique. Can't learn what he has.

[Jon Creveling]

Not to break any hearts I'm sure but the NYPost reports that Martin Chase has 99% signed with Big-Blue! Just waiting on an returned signed contract.........

[colkurtz]

Originally posted by badpigs442
The D-line could be better with the experience of last year. We know the sec lost ability by losing Champ. Sec would benefit from a player there, and not on the line.


Last year, the defense was 27th in the league. We were near last in sacks. Champ (4 time pro bowler) was scourched for 8 TD's. Perhaps he had a bad year ... but more likely it was because the opposing QB's had so much time to pass!!

Our new DL is modestly improved. What will happen when T. Owens is running in our backfield and McKnabb has time to watch him for 4-6 seconds????? Even McKnabb can't miss a guy like that. I don't care if S. Taylor or the ghost of Ronnie Lott comes back - if the QB has enough time - he will find someone open. We'll never get to see Portis run, because we'll be behind by 14 points or more.

Champ Bailey said (before he left) that this DL was a two year project to fix. Do you think that was one reason he left? When do we start to re-build?

[IowaSkinsFan]

Originally posted by kaiser
Quit your East Coast bias! The Pac-10 won all their bowl games except for UCLA - tells you they were better than everyone thought! USC were the best team in the nation and had the best defence in the nation. Udeze was the best player on that D. Would you care to look up his TFL stats and FF stats?! They tell an interesting story. If he had stayed, he was projected to be a top 3 pick next year - that's how good he is!

His raw talent (strength/speed) is off the charts. His determination and work ethic are shown in the fact that he lost 70+lbs as a frosh to go from a mammoth DT to monster DE, plus he is the stringest player on his team and is a conditioning freak.

What exactly makes you think he won't succeed? Courtney Brown!?! That's a BS excuse - uninformed and uneducated. So he has more question marks than Taylor - a kicker will always have less question marks than a QB.

You talk abt Udeze playing on a strong D, but what about Taylor?! DJ Williams - #1 LB prospect and national #1 prospect out of HS. Vince Wolfolk is one of the top 3 DTs in this draft, and was considered a top 3 pick at the beginning of the season. Yeah, he was the only star on that defense, not!

Lame excuses with no substance.

Excellent post.

[colkurtz]

Originally posted by kaiser
Quit your East Coast bias! The Pac-10 won all their bowl games except for UCLA - tells you they were better than everyone thought! USC were the best team in the nation and had the best defence in the nation. Udeze was the best player on that D. Would you care to look up his TFL stats and FF stats?! They tell an interesting story. If he had stayed, he was projected to be a top 3 pick next year - that's how good he is!

His raw talent (strength/speed) is off the charts. His determination and work ethic are shown in the fact that he lost 70+lbs as a frosh to go from a mammoth DT to monster DE, plus he is the stringest player on his team and is a conditioning freak.

What exactly makes you think he won't succeed? Courtney Brown!?! That's a BS excuse - uninformed and uneducated. So he has more question marks than Taylor - a kicker will always have less question marks than a QB.

You talk abt Udeze playing on a strong D, but what about Taylor?! DJ Williams - #1 LB prospect and national #1 prospect out of HS. Vince Wolfolk is one of the top 3 DTs in this draft, and was considered a top 3 pick at the beginning of the season. Yeah, he was the only star on that defense, not!

Lame excuses with no substance.

Absolute brilliant post. Thanks for more info on Udeze - I think he is the real deal. I look forward to his workout numbers on March 24th.

Who would you rather have chasing Donovan:

A 280 lb DE, who benches 225 - 31 times and does a 4.6 40 - rushing EVERY passing play?

or

a 230 lb FS, who benches 225 -11 times, doing a 4.5 40 - rushing twice a game on a blitz?

The first answer is cheaper and gets us a second round draft choice with it!!


:smash:

[J-Rod]

Wise, educated words colkurtz...to a point. Will anyone want Taylor bad enough to give up two picks? Maybe, but many are thinking like just like you. I think there will be far less takers on the #5 pick than we all may think. I've already heard that Texas won't give away their second for it (rumor).

[kaiser]

Well, if one of the QBs or Gallery drops to us, then I'm pretty sure there will be interest. None of the top RBs did themselves any favours by running badly a workouts, so I think teams will be looking at WR a lot more in the 1st round and letting the 2nd round take care of RB needs. This is probably the greatest WR draft ever - there's so much 1st round level talent there.

Still, there isn't as much buzz around this draft as there usually is... wierd.

[camasterton]

The way we get him is not a trade down into 9-10-11 slots. That is too much of a jump up for those teams. Plus they all have similar needs to ours. An interesting and sexy three way. The scenario would have Cleveland or Atlanta trading up to our 5 pick (we down to 7/8). Then that team would have an attractive spot for one of the 1-2-3 picking teams to trade down to. The Cle/Atl team could move ahead of the Giants to snag Gallery (and damn if they both don't need him bad!)-The 1-2-3 team drops down but not out of the elite prospect area (still a lue chip QB,WR... on the board)-We get an extra pick and still a shot at Udeze, Winslow or maybe even Taylor.

[Yudolindo]

Originally posted by kaiser
Quit your East Coast bias!
Lame excuses with no substance.

I think you entirely missed my point. If you had read my postings on him in other threads, you would find that I am high on Udeze. However, I was attempting to point out that he ought not yet be anointed. For every Javon Kearse or Warren Sapp there are twenty busts: so why are we acting like Udeze is an absolute exception to the rule? I am not sure how saying that sacks are easier to come by in the NCAA than in the NFL is untrue let alone effrontery; doing it in college does not always mean that he will do it in the NFL. He was not his team like Terrell Suggs and comparisons to him are unfair: he was a bright light in a cornucopia of talent. He has yet to even work out and many, many “experts,” have said that he needs another year or two; he is raw. Before we go nuts, lets at least see what he does on Wednesday. It’s ironic that those who so quickly dismiss Taylor fans and their arguments as fanatical and hegemonic are indeed fanatical and hegemons themselves.

Udeze is not a given. However, if he averages a sub 4.6 or even a sub 4.7 forty, the our draft decision will be made much easier.

I have no interest in arguing Taylor V. Udeze, but to call doubts towards Udeze as “Lame excuses with no substance,” rather than allaying or arguing them using reason is juvenile and you are silencing discussion rather than creating it.

[DenverSkinsFan]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by kaiser
Quit your East Coast bias! The Pac-10 won all their bowl games except for UCLA - tells you they were better than everyone thought! USC were the best team in the nation and had the best defence in the nation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I have two thoughts on this:

1. OU had the nation's #1 defense last year in terms of total defense. LSU had the #1 defense in terms of points allowed. Sorry, I just love arguing with anyone playing the "East Coast Bias" card. It doesn't exist.

2. I no longer think they will take Taylor in the draft. The two options at this point are to take Winslow or trade down and get Udeze or Will Smith (depending on how far down they trade). If this site is correct in saying Bryan Johnson got an offer from NO, then Gibbs has noone to play H-back. I'm pretty convinced they'll take Winslow.

[VirginiaRedskin]

Udeze certainly has the advantage of a bit more weight and lower body strength, however his technique needs to improve for the NFL level. He will be not be able to over power players in the pros and must learn to keep his pads down more or he is going to get stood up and rocked back by NFL offensive tackles. There is no questioning his tackling ability and explosion off the ball though.

Smith I feel has far better techique right now, but need to add some strength and bulk to his lower half. Once he does watch out. He already has the ability to use a swim move, club, spin or rip to beat his adversary. But, like I said, needs to add strength over the next year.

Both guys will be starters but need to work on different things. I would not be hurt if we draft Smith as I feel we can trade down to pick up a solid two and a three and still grab him. I fear Udeze may be gone inside the top ten.

[badpigs442]

Originally posted by colkurtz
Last year, the defense was 27th in the league. We were near last in sacks. Champ (4 time pro bowler) was scourched for 8 TD's. Perhaps he had a bad year ... but more likely it was because the opposing QB's had so much time to pass!!

Our new DL is modestly improved. What will happen when T. Owens is running in our backfield and McKnabb has time to watch him for 4-6 seconds????? Even McKnabb can't miss a guy like that. I don't care if S. Taylor or the ghost of Ronnie Lott comes back - if the QB has enough time - he will find someone open. We'll never get to see Portis run, because we'll be behind by 14 points or more.

Champ Bailey said (before he left) that this DL was a two year project to fix. Do you think that was one reason he left? When do we start to re-build?

He won't need 4-6 secs. He will just have to look over the middle at our subpar safties. The d-line is not that bad, and the secondary is not that good.

[kaiser]

Originally posted by Yudolindo
I think you entirely missed my point. If you had read my postings on him in other threads, you would find that I am high on Udeze. However, I was attempting to point out that he ought not yet be anointed. For every Javon Kearse or Warren Sapp there are twenty busts: so why are we acting like Udeze is an absolute exception to the rule? I am not sure how saying that sacks are easier to come by in the NCAA than in the NFL is untrue let alone effrontery; doing it in college does not always mean that he will do it in the NFL. He was not his team like Terrell Suggs and comparisons to him are unfair: he was a bright light in a cornucopia of talent. He has yet to even work out and many, many “experts,” have said that he needs another year or two; he is raw. Before we go nuts, lets at least see what he does on Wednesday. It’s ironic that those who so quickly dismiss Taylor fans and their arguments as fanatical and hegemonic are indeed fanatical and hegemons themselves.

Udeze is not a given. However, if he averages a sub 4.6 or even a sub 4.7 forty, the our draft decision will be made much easier.

I have no interest in arguing Taylor V. Udeze, but to call doubts towards Udeze as “Lame excuses with no substance,” rather than allaying or arguing them using reason is juvenile and you are silencing discussion rather than creating it.

So you suggest your post was completely outside the concept of the entire thread? Please, I'm not that naive. You assume I was just addressing you!? Why?! The east coast bias was for you, but the rest was a check on all the 'Taylor is God' posts. (btw, You're suggesting that 9 in 10 DEs drafted in the 1st round are busts?! I think you want to check that yourself.) People say Udeze's accomplishments should be diminished because he was on a good team. Shouldn't the same apply to Taylor, KW2, Harris, Wilfolk, Roy Williams, Will Smith?! See a pattern?! Successful teams are usually successful because they are strong TEAMS (group of players). Udeze was the NCAA sack king last season. He deserves some recognition for that. Proof enought that he has just as much chance as anyone else to succeed.

As for dismissing Taylor, I'm dismissing any safety as a top 10 pick. In all the years I've watched football, I haven't seen a safety in a draft justify a top 10 pick. It's simply the nature of the position in the pro game. At the college game against amateur passers, safeties play extremely important roles, but that really isn;t the case in the pro game. They're cheap and easy to find. Pass rushing DLs on the other hand are not. We never lost a game last year from safety play. I challenge anyone to prove otherwise. Our DL got sliced up every time. Give a pro QB 6 secs and he'll slice you up. And if you're giving up 300yds to a Troy Hambrick, I don't think it's the safety's fault. Do you?! My apologies for the stats mess up. I had that impression from the write-ups after the bowl games. ESPN don't cover team defence stats, so I took a punt. Could you tell me where USC was ranked in yards (pass & rush) and points please.

As for our DL not being that bad, you're nuts. We probably have the worst DL in the NFL, definitely bottom 5. Not bad relative to what?! Comments like that are what I hate, because they are fanciful and completely without base.

[BigCountry]

What everyone is failing to realize about the concept of a player's team making him look good is that Udeze, along with Sean Cody, drew most of the double teams. Guys like Mike Patterson and Omar Nazel had their stats bolstered on the defensive front because of Udeze, who still managed 16.5 sacks. In addition to all that, Sean Cody wasn't even healthy all year.

[VirginiaRedskin]

Originally posted by guinness4health
i am with you udeze won't solve our DL issues,
besides i am not worried about our d-line getting pressure, besides adams can anyone name one other person on buffalo's d-line from last year? and they had the second best defensive football.
udeze is not going to get more than 5 sacks next year, while washington is going to get that from the LB/DE position.



In addition to Sam Adams, Pat Williams is an outstanding DT and Aaron Schobel is an up and coming star (11.5 sacks last year).

To fail to appreciate the need for a pass rush collapsing around the ends and a strong push coming up the middle is to not understand the game you are watching. There is not a stat for everything. The player who gets the tackle may get credit, but do you want the tackle made 30 yards down field or near the LOS?

[badpigs442]

Originally posted by kaiser
As for our DL not being that bad, you're nuts. We probably have the worst DL in the NFL, definitely bottom 5. Not bad relative to what?! Comments like that are what I hate, because they are fanciful and completely without base.

For one It isn't as bad as last year. we will have 3 new starters, Griffin, Daniels, and Noble wll be back. Why take another D-lineman in the first round? Our club opened up the spring with four 1rst round picks starting/rotating on the line and they were bad. This is taking another DL in the 1rst:banghead: .

[kaiser]

Hahaha... you're full of it! In the last 10 years, how many DLs has the club taken in the 1st round?! One. Kenard Lang. Try again. When were these "four 1st round picks" drafted? There is such a thing as a use-by date. Anything's an upgrade compared to last year, but we lost our best pass rushing DL and replaced him with a guy who had 2 sacks last year. Not seeing the big improvement.