Change your Mocks, bye bye winslow

[PennSkinsFan]

"Meanwhile, Winslow officially has named Kevin Poston his agent, perhaps decreasing the odds that the Redskins will select him. A source with knowledge of the situation said Winslow has filed the necessary paperwork with the NFL Players Association. "

Wash Times

I doubt Dan Snyder will deal with him this soon after the Lavar incident. I thinkt his solidifies Taylor if we stay at 5.

[RedskinsDave]

No no, go ahead and draft him now. With Poston "reading" the contract, surely we will only ending paying the kid league minimum.

[SkinsKY]

No no, go ahead and draft him now. With Poston "reading" the contract, surely we will only ending paying the kid league minimum.

He brings up an excellent point. Maybe we can sign Winlsow for a shiny new nickel.

[TexSkin]

The punk knew we did not like the Postons and he still signed them. I hope he falls into the teens thus losing millions.

[ShaggySkins]

How does signing the Postons make him a punk??? I don't agree with who he signed because I would really love to see him as a Redskin. But he has every right to sign the agent that he feels will get him the best contract. Maybe this is a sign that he felt the Skins were not going to select him regardless of the agent. Despite how much I dislike the Postons that have been successful in the past getting very large contracts for their clients.

[smoak]

i wouldn't necessarily call hima punk, but it was a bad choice regardless... we are not the only team having issues with the pothead brothers...

[RedskinRyan]

ok, but the postons represent arrington and pace. when pace says he didnt want the money that his agents asked for and arrington has $6.5 million that just disappears, that should say something. i dont want winslow, and i dont want taylor. bring me wilfork.

[CarMike]

Here's a thought. Perhaps Winslow signing with the Postons can work to our advantage.

Perhaps there's a team that really wants him and they'll trade up to the #5 spot to grab him. Who the heck knows whats going to happen. I'll be glad when the draft gets here. I do know that much!

[Spence]

No no, go ahead and draft him now. With Poston "reading" the contract, surely we will only ending paying the kid league minimum.Early favorite for Best Line of the Day.

[REDMAN]

I doubt they will select Winslow now.

[rskinsfan10]

I will laugh for days on end if we take him in the draft.....

[RichardBradley]

How does signing the Postons make him a punk??? I don't agree with who he signed because I would really love to see him as a Redskin. But he has every right to sign the agent that he feels will get him the best contract. Maybe this is a sign that he felt the Skins were not going to select him regardless of the agent. Despite how much I dislike the Postons that have been successful in the past getting very large contracts for their clients.



Very good post... I am still alittle confused by all the Winslow hateing... Most on the board listed Coles as their favirote Redskin and he did alot more damaging things in college than Winslow has. As far as the skins not wanting to deal with a particular agent that is just some sports writer from the post drumming up something because he was board. Gibbs will pick the best player.

[Keino]

I will laugh for days on end if we take him in the draft.....


I won't. I think I might cry for days on end if we take him.

[rskinsfan10]

I won't. I think I might cry for days on end if we take him.
The thing is, I don't think he is a need, which I believe are your feelings also.

I just want to see how many people here will need suicide watch because of who his agents are. The fact that the team flew him into town to meet with him and work him out should tell people that they care more about his talent then his representation. If it were as simple as some make it seems that we won't touch him because of that, then Gibbs wouldn't have wasted his time.

[Spence]

I don't care who Winslow's agents are [though the Redskins might]. All I care about is that the team needs a massive infusion of youth and talent on the defensive line. If Winslow could sack the quarterback 14 times a year I'd favor taking him if his agent was Jack the Ripper.

[RichardBradley]

I agree Penn... But it seems that the Redskins have something against defensive lineman...

[SkinsKY]

I don't hate Winslow, although I certainly don't think he has shown himself to be the brightest apple. I won't comment on Coles because he was punished about as bad as you can punish a college player, so I think he paid his penance. If Winslow was smart, he would be cautious of the Postons, but for whatever reason, he decided to hire them anyway. When players begin firing the same agent or contract controversies surface, you should try and avoid them. Rosenhaus lands big contracts without angering everyone.

RB, if Gibbs values character over talent (as many people have professed to the nth degree), I wouldn't be so sure Gibbs will take the best player.

[rskinsfan10]

The Rosenhaus Bros. have their fair share of enemies. Ask Pat Bowlen and Mike Shanahan how they feel about them right about now. Drew Rosenhaus was not Clinton Portis' original agent.

The Postons are simply the flavor of the month right now with all of the bashing, just like Snyder has been over recent years. All of the articles read the same.

[WinslowRedskin]

He just cost himself a few mil by dropping out of the Top 5 Range. Hello Taylor!

[RichardBradley]

Winslow will be a top 6 pick exactly where he was ecpected to go before he named his agent... All this Poston bashing getting silly.. All agents at one time or another have been bashed.

[Skinzaholic]

Truthfully - we all have no more clue what the Redskins will do come April 24th then we did yesterday... but hey... atleast we had something new to talk about for a moment or two!

[badpigs442]

Winslow, what a McNugget. :dance: Can't believe he would pick those two bone heads. Take Taylor and let the picks roll in.

[truant]

Articles talking about a team (or teams) passing on a prospect because of their agent is a pretty big deal and those aren't written very often. The Postons might not mean much to us, but obviously the front office is tired of their antics.

Sure, agents aren't universally loved, but going with the Postons at a time like this after asking the Redskins to rank agents (and we put the postons last) is a questionable move IMO.

I'm not saying Winslow is stupid nor to I hate him, he just seems extremely stubborn.

[rskinsfan10]

Articles talking about a team (or teams) passing on a prospect because of their agent is a pretty big deal and those aren't written very often. The Postons might not mean much to us, but obviously the front office is tired of their antics.

Sure, agents aren't universally loved, but going with the Postons at a time like this after asking the Redskins to rank agents (and we put the postons last) is a questionable move IMO.

I'm not saying Winslow is stupid nor to I hate him, he just seems extremely stubborn.
He's stubborn because he chose who HE wants?

[Spence]

You have to remember that it is the job of the agent to be the bad guy. People always like to assume that the player they like isn't a jerk--it must be the agent. And teams feel free to attack agents in the media because they don't want to say the same thing about the player that they hope to sign or re-sign one day.

Think of the agent as the chief of staff to the President of the United States. It's the President's job to say yes to everyone because politicians want to be liked and telling people yes is the quickest and surest way to be liked. Unfortunately, that means saying yes to lots of people who deserve to be told no. After the President has said yes and left the room, it is the chief of staff's job to explain that although the President said yes, what he really meant to say was no and surely you can understand why the President couldn't possibly give you what you want at this time.

There's a good cop/bad cop dichotomy going on here. The player is the good cop and the agent is the bad cop. Nobody likes the agent, just as nobody likes the bad cop or the chief of staff. They're necessary, though.

[rskinsfan10]

Great analogy Tom.

I'd also like to point out a few things about that list. I have already in previous threads mentioned my thoughts about Drew Rosenhaus. He is hardly a saint himself. Eugene Parker is the same guy that represented Deion Sanders, and we know how that worked out.

Also, how do we know that the Winslows didn't pose that rank 'em question to all the teams in the league, and that they faired better in other's opinions then with the Redskins?

On a side note, I'd point out that our previous ISP host has very high rankings when asking around, but anyone that has been with hR over the last year, especially the last few months know what a piece of crap that they are/were. Get my point?

[garedskin]

That should tell you alot about him. No team in the league likes dealing with the Postons. They always ask for a redicule amount of money for there clients (Pace, Arrington to name a few). If money drives a player then these guys are the type of agents he needs. Good this should make it easier for the skins to take Sean Taylor.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Erm.... Fellas, can we not look at this through five-foot thick rose-colored glasses for a moment? Okay, so Winslow chose the Postons. So what? Do you think he was thinking, "Well, gee, I feel like pissing off Washington, and the Postons are at the bottom of their list, I might as well choose them." No. Winslow doesn't even know what team he's going to, and if he did, just because they requested a certain agent doesn't mean he'll take it. He's gonna do whatever will get him the most money, and despite their recent publicity, the Postons are good at getting a lot of money for superstars. Let's try and avoid taking this personally here.

[rskinsfan10]

Nice try Joe, but I doubt that it will help any.

[redwolf1218]

draft picks are slotted. the postons cause problems with free agents. we picked arrington (with the postons) then re-signed him (postons). the result was arringtons jersey was not available for purchase (only player ever in history, if i'm not mistaken) and nasty allegations and grievances filed. i think with the postons we would sign kwII to a short deal with voidable years, then never re-sign him or have to franchise him over and over (see: rams). i'd avoid the postons, unless they have learned their lesson with all this bad publicity.how bad would they be for your team if they had the leverage of several of your stars under contract?

[rskinsfan10]

The Postons had absolutely nothing to do with Arrington not signing the NFLPA contract before now.

[redwolf1218]

i know it sounds silly, but Joe asked "do you think kwII was thinking hey i think i will pissoff the redskins and pick the postons"...well actually that was the first thing that came to my mind, maybe he doesnt want to play for the redskins. maybe he doesnt want to live in washington, maybe he wants to go somewhere else. who knows. i cant see why he'd pick them. not now anyway. i mean, why would he visit and interview with them, then pick the postons?

[redwolf1218]

how do you know that the postons had nothing to do with arrington trying to set a precident to get more money for the sale of his jersey?

[rskinsfan10]

Because Arrington stated several times that it involved a conversation that he and his father had.

Also, if the Postons told LaVar that, why wouldn't they tell all of their other clients to do the same?

[rskinsfan10]

i know it sounds silly, but Joe asked "do you think kwII was thinking hey i think i will pissoff the redskins and pick the postons"...well actually that was the first thing that came to my mind, maybe he doesnt want to play for the redskins. maybe he doesnt want to live in washington, maybe he wants to go somewhere else. who knows. i cant see why he'd pick them. not now anyway. i mean, why would he visit and interview with them, then pick the postons?

And to answer this question, he reportedly hired the Postons LAST Wednesday. The team knew that before yesterday.

[redwolf1218]

thats cool, i did not know it came from his father. thats a fact, anything else is speculation.

[redwolf1218]

oh i thought last wed, he said he had not decided about the postons, but were considering them, then i heard the skins asked him, they listed their top choices for agents, the postons were at the bottom, and then he decided on the postons.

[rskinsfan10]

oh i thought last wed, he said he had not decided about the postons, but were considering them, then i heard the skins asked him, they listed their top choices for agents, the postons were at the bottom, and then he decided on the postons.
I've seen at least two articles that said that he hired them last Wed.

[redwolf1218]

i thought the article said he was considering the postons, but he was going to wait until later to name an agent. i read it, i think it came from cbs sportsline, or fox news...everyone was talking about it on here.

[redwolf1218]

well then if he hired them already, and they brought him in for an interview, they must not care, and they must be seriously considering taking him. either that, or they want everyone to think they are, to strengthen the possibility of a trade down.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

On the plus side, the franchise tag for tight ends can't be all that bad....

[War Hogg]

Wow..., Winslow could have really turned us into a powerhouse on offense! There would've been no way to account for Portis,Coles and Winslow all at once! Defensive Coordinator Nightmare!
Time to Trade down to the #10 spot with Houston and pick up Wilfork and Ben Troupe or Watson with the second rounder they will have to give. Still Works....

[IowaSkinsFan]

No no, go ahead and draft him now. With Poston "reading" the contract, surely we will only ending paying the kid league minimum.

LOL.

[dogfight6]

Winslow is not a need and I don't think his signing with the postons means squat. I don't think Mr. Snyder is afraid of agents or will he allow them to make his decisions for him. If he wants Winslow he will take him!

[jtpop]

I just saw something that talked about the Raiders taking Winslow. It said his stock is soaring and that the skin's would most likely end up with Taylor. I believe it was on Fox's website.

[Redskinfan28]

See, I think Winslow is a need. We have no H-Back who can stretch the middle of the field. Otherwise, Ds will lock the WRs down.

Sellers is not the answer. If he was that good, he wouldn't have been in the CFL for the last few years.

[redwolf1218]

from redskins.com: "The Redskins already have several candidates for the job [of h-back], including tight ends Walter Rasby and Byron Chamberlain and fullback Mike Sellers...
Two years ago, the Redskins drafted Robert Royal in the fifth round of the draft. Royal, coming off a season-ending hip injury last season, is also in the mix at tight end/H-back along with Leonard Stephens and Kevin Ware."
1. Walter Rasby
2. Byron Chamberlain
3. Mike Sellers
4. Robert Royal
5. Leonard Stephens
6. Kevin Ware
none of these guys are going to scare anybody. and isnt that too many guys at the position anyway?

[Redskinfan28]

Rasby is a blocking TE. Of the remainders, only Chamberlin has the potential to be an effective H-Back and he was very out of shape at minicamp. I really wouldn't be surprised if the Redskins waited to see if KWII was available at #5, selected him, and then cut everyone but Rasby and Sellers.

[redwolf1218]

we do need to upgrade that mess somehow. what a log jam. one guy coming off a hip injury (royal), one guy is in europe right now (stephens), one guy is old and fat (chamberlain), one guy was in canada for 2 years (sellars, which pretty much means none of the 32 teams in the nfl needed him even as a backup)... probably the best one was johnson who we traded for a 6th round pick.

[SkinsKY]

See, I think Winslow is a need. We have no H-Back who can stretch the middle of the field. Otherwise, Ds will lock the WRs down.

Sellers is not the answer. If he was that good, he wouldn't have been in the CFL for the last few years.


I would have to disagree strongly that Winlsow is a need. You can stretch the middle of the field with a third WR. The H-Back doesn't have to stretch the field so much as keep the secondary honest. The position is supposed to be something else for the D to worry about. Doug Flutie and Warren Moon were good QBs who both played in the CFL. Tommy Maddox is serviceable and he played in the XFL. I think Sellers will be fine.

[RedskinRyan]

its too early to tell. we dont need to use the 5th pick though on a minor hole on offense. we need the 5th pick to fix a major hole on defense though. it doesnt matter if we score 50 pts a game if we give up 60. i think that drafting winslow will put us in the same position as the chiefs last year. so much power on offense, but nothing on the d.

[PennSkinsFan]

I really liked Robert Royal his rookie year in pre-season. he seemed he coudl be a pretty gopod pass catcher out of the backfield. BUT, man, is he injury prone or what. Two years ont he Skins, two years on injured reserve.

[Redskinfan28]

KY:

As usual, you make valid points. You are a DL advocate, and I can certainly see why. For me the question is this:

Will there be another Udeze/Harris/Smith in next year's draft? I believe the answer is yes-there are always good DL in a draft. Will there be another Winslow in next year's draft? I don't think so - talents like his don't come around very often. And I think we need his talent to stretch the field without having to use a 3rd WR (he's better reciever than anyone but Coles, IMO).

Anyway, we have disagreed on this point for over a month now and I suspect we can agree just to disagree.

[rskinsfan10]

I really liked Robert Royal his rookie year in pre-season. he seemed he coudl be a pretty gopod pass catcher out of the backfield. BUT, man, is he injury prone or what. Two years ont he Skins, two years on injured reserve.
You and I. I remember us talking about how impressed we were with him, but as you say he can't seem to stay healthy. Although I believe the team stashed him away his rookie year by putting him on the IR.

[hail2skins]

I think they stashed him as well. I guess we'll see what happens with him in training camp.

[RichardBradley]

Good NFL teams don't draft out of need and that is why we have gotten so many free agents ... That being said I still beleive that we have to draft a DL in the first round.. I just don't see one out their worth the number 5 pick so I hope we trade down. Their is not much difference between Harris, Starks and Wilfolk... Or in Smith and Udeze so one of them will be their at the bottom of the first so we could possibly trade down twice and pick up some extra picks... But if we stay at 5 you have to take the best player on the board.

[RichardBradley]

Mike Williams had an excellent workout running in the 4.5 range so the number 5 pick will be more valuable now.

[ArRiNgToN_56]

ok, but the postons represent arrington and pace. when pace says he didnt want the money that his agents asked for and arrington has $6.5 million that just disappears, that should say something. i dont want winslow, and i dont want taylor. bring me wilfork.

Agreed

[ArRiNgToN_56]

Good NFL teams don't draft out of need and that is why we have gotten so many free agents ... That being said I still beleive that we have to draft a DL in the first round.. I just don't see one out their worth the number 5 pick so I hope we trade down. Their is not much difference between Harris, Starks and Wilfolk... Or in Smith and Udeze so one of them will be their at the bottom of the first so we could possibly trade down twice and pick up some extra picks... But if we stay at 5 you have to take the best player on the board.

No, The patriots seem to always draft out of need and the've won two champiionships. GET WILFORK

[RichardBradley]

What are you talking about New England never reaches for a player because of a position of need... Last year their biggest weakness was at RB... Did they reach no they took 2 players in the first 2 rounds at their strongest position DT and at WR because they were the best players on their board.

[TwistyNiblet]

I think we still may pick Winslow...we really do need him. A lot.

[Meadowlark]

Rasby is a blocking TE.

Which is exactly what I would be looking for. If I were co-ordinating the offense, Portis and Coles would get the ball at every opportunity and then some. Elsewhere on O, I would want the #2 WR to be decent enough to make the defence pay attention and the TE/HB to provide solid blocking for Portis and the QB (whoever it is).

In which case I wouldn't use the #5 pick on KWII's position. Just mho.

Still, if the team can get others to believe they might take KWII at #5, it increases the chances of trading the pick. And that is good.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Mike Williams had an excellent workout running in the 4.5 range so the number 5 pick will be more valuable now.

4.4, actually. That's just sick. He's a 6'5", 235 pound receiver that runs a 4.4. The next Terrell Owens or David Boston, but apparently without the same attitude problems....

[RichardBradley]

Williams weighed in at 228 pounds. Running on a rubber track at the University of South Florida, he ran a wind-aided 40-yard dash timed at slightly under 4.6 seconds and one against the wind timed at just over 4.6 seconds. He had a 37-inch vertical jump and probably solidified his status as one of the top three wideouts available in the draft, along with Pittsburgh's Larry Fitzgerald and Texas's Roy Williams. Both of them had solid pro-day workouts, highlighted by Williams running his 40-yard dash in a blazing 4.37 seconds.

Those in Mike Williams's camp had believed he was being ignored by some teams in their draft preparations because they don't know if he'll remain eligible for the draft. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit likely will rule a few days before the draft on the NFL's appeal of the Feb. 5 decision by a federal judge that made college freshmen and sophomores and high school players eligible for the draft. Williams left USC after his sophomore season and was the lone prominent player to join former Ohio State tailback Maurice Clarett in taking advantage of the judge's ruling in Clarett's lawsuit against the league by entering the draft early. NFL officials say they will bar Clarett and Williams from the draft if the league prevails in court.

Williams trained in Duluth, Ga., for today's workout amid rumblings that he would show up overweight and run a slow 40. The Jacksonville Jaguars, who have the ninth overall choice in the draft, appear keenly interested in him.


Roy Williams ran 4.4..

[JoeDaSchmoe]

According to Sportscenter, he ran a 4.43 with the wind and a 4.46 against it.

[RichardBradley]

Well someone is lying ...?

[Dexter72]

Depends on who's stopwatch they were looking at, I guess.

[RichardBradley]

Well my point was alot of people expected he would run 4.7 4.8 now that he has peoven his speed he is a likely top 10 pick.... So if we decide to trade down a few times their is another option.

[redwolf1218]

good point. there could be 4 receivers taken in the top half of the first round. after a few years we will see how all the draft hype plays out. remember all the hype around guys like ashley lelie, paxico burris, warrick dunn, santana moss...all that hype about these guys should make our trade down scenario just get better and better. i think we are going to get a steal somewhere around the middle of round 1.

[RichardBradley]

I think you meant Rod Gardner not Warrick Dunn but yes i agree

[badpigs442]

I thyink if we are going to trade It would be with someone who wants Roy Williams. When Fitz goes off the board teams will really want that #2 reciever propect IMO. Roy is more polished than Mike or KWII.

[redwolf1218]

oh yea oops i think i meant peter warrick actually