Point/Counter Point Ramsey Vs. Brunell

[Carmelo]

Not sure how many of you checked this out but I thought I'd bring it into discussion. If someone already posted about this I apologize, just let me know.

http://www.hailredskins.com/Point.htm

of course my stance on the issue is already stated in the article.

and for those of you who can't read the last paragraph it goes:

Although Mark Brunell is a great quarterback, he has not done what Patrick has done or sacrificed what Pat has sacrificed for this team. Mark Brunell is a 12-year veteran, which in QB years means he equates to a great backup. His total yards have declined each year since 2000 and he does not have the chemistry with the current receivers that Patrick Ramsey has. Patrick’s career is heading up and Brunell’s is heading down.

The Point is… If everything is equal coming out of training camp, my vote’s for Patrick Ramsey as starting quarterback!

hope you enjoy the articles.

[redwolf1218]

i dont know about some of these assumptions. a 12 year veteran QB doesnt necessarily mean "backup". see steve young, joe montana, john elway...many others. also, a QB's total passing yards may not have anything to do with his individual skills or performance. chemistry with the receivers...seeing as how a new offense is being implemented, and ramsey was on crutches at the first mini camp, brunell probably has had more actual time practicing with the first team receivers and therefore may have a better "chemistry" and timing with them at this point. that could all change in training camp, with ramsey healthy enough to get a full load of work with the first team.

[Carmelo]

i dont know about some of these assumptions. a 12 year veteran QB doesnt necessarily mean "backup". see steve young, joe montana, john elway...many others. also, a QB's total passing yards may not have anything to do with his individual skills or performance. chemistry with the receivers...seeing as how a new offense is being implemented, and ramsey was on crutches at the first mini camp, brunell probably has had more actual time practicing with the first team receivers and therefore may have a better "chemistry" and timing with them at this point. that could all change in training camp, with ramsey healthy enough to get a full load of work with the first team.
Oh, I was definitely reaching with the 12 year thing. I also turned a blind eye to some facts against Ramsey. I took a completely one sided approach to defending him on purpose on certain things. One thing I forgot to put though was that I think his team respects him more for the beating he took last year.

[redwolf1218]

Oh, I was definitely reaching with the 12 year thing. I also turned a blind eye to some facts against Ramsey. I took a completely one sided approach to defending him on purpose on certain things. One thing I forgot to put though was that I think his team respects him more for the beating he took last year.
you may be right about that part of it. they probably know him better personally and already have respect for him, which brunell still has to earn. i think in the long run, ramsey has the arm strength and intelligence to be better than brunell. that said, to be better than brunell would put him in the top 10 QB rating in NFL history. i do believe he has that kind of talent though, and now, the coaching and the system to make that kind of career possible.

[Jon Creveling]

Just got around to reading the articles this morning, great job! Without putting words in your mouth, you feel the same way I do. I know all the pro-Mark propaganda, much of which is true, but after 5 and 11 you almost expect to root for the kid! You almost need to! Did I get your drift? Agreed if the competition is close after camp/ps go with the kid! Here's to Ram handing the clipboard to Mark!

[Carmelo]

i dont know about some of these assumptions. a 12 year veteran QB doesnt necessarily mean "backup". see steve young, joe montana, john elway...many others. also, a QB's total passing yards may not have anything to do with his individual skills or performance. chemistry with the receivers...seeing as how a new offense is being implemented, and ramsey was on crutches at the first mini camp, brunell probably has had more actual time practicing with the first team receivers and therefore may have a better "chemistry" and timing with them at this point. that could all change in training camp, with ramsey healthy enough to get a full load of work with the first team.
actually did some checking here and I believe Brunell actually has a higher qb rating than Elway. Good point. Not Young or Montana though I don't think.

[redwolf1218]

actually did some checking here and I believe Brunell actually has a higher qb rating than Elway. Good point. Not Young or Montana though I don't think.
well the point was that those guys were still really good late in their careers, way up into their 30's. it seems some QB's have some of their best years in the late 30's. elway, brunell, and young were famous for scrambling and running, using their feet, buying time...before settling down and becoming more conventional pocket passers later in their careers. i dont think ramsey is like that, i dont think he has those kind of feet and legs. i think he will be the prototype Gibbs-style pocket passer with just enough mobility to feel pressure and buy a little extra time sliding away from the pressure and he will end up with a great career.

[Carmelo]

well the point was that those guys were still really good late in their careers, way up into their 30's. it seems some QB's have some of their best years in the late 30's. elway, brunell, and young were famous for scrambling and running, using their feet, buying time...before settling down and becoming more conventional pocket passers later in their careers. i dont think ramsey is like that, i dont think he has those kind of feet and legs. i think he will be the prototype Gibbs-style pocket passer with just enough mobility to feel pressure and buy a little extra time sliding away from the pressure and he will end up with a great career.
I actually had a horrible time coming up with negative things to say about brunell so I played the true debater and ignored all the good stuff I found and stretched semi-bad stuff out of thin air. I do agree that Ramsey's mobility gives him just enough to step out of the way and not much more. That's all he needs though. He's so tough he resembles these tough streets in DC. I guess I picked him over brunell because he's just my kinda guy when it comes to football. Rough, tough, knock me down and I'll get up kicking type of guy. When we were kids we played football in the side streets between passing cars and I feel like when he was a kid, Pat would have played with us, getting tackled on concrete and all. Again, all of this is just my humble opinion.

[redwolf1218]

I actually had a horrible time coming up with negative things to say about brunell so I played the true debater and ignored all the good stuff I found and stretched semi-bad stuff out of thin air. I do agree that Ramsey's mobility gives him just enough to step out of the way and not much more. That's all he needs though. He's so tough he resembles these tough streets in DC. I guess I picked him over brunell because he's just my kinda guy when it comes to football. Rough, tough, knock me down and I'll get up kicking type of guy. When we were kids we played football in the side streets between passing cars and I feel like when he was a kid, Pat would have played with us, getting tackled on concrete and all. Again, all of this is just my humble opinion.
i hated to see ramsey getting the tar knocked out of him over and over. i was amazed how he got up some of those times. i just knew he would eventually get hurt, and we are really lucky it was not something worse. it could have been a lot worse. concussions, blown out knees, dislocated shoulders, torn achilles tendons...these were the things that kept going threw my head last year, i was like please dont let this kid get his career cut short with this stupid QB killer scheme. we are lucky he survived it. he's tough that's for sure, but i hope he wont have to prove it like that anymore, at least not as often, and not to that extent.

[RedskinsVision]

great counterpoint Carmelo.. although you won that matchup, the job still goes to Brunell.. he's far more accomplished in the NFL and only 11 other QB's in the history of the game can say they have better ratings then Mark has. we all love Patrick for the scourging he took last year but that was under Stupidier.. now it's Joe Gibbs.. and he's not going by what players did or went through last year but who's going to get it done THIS year. he didn't go out of his way to wine and dine w/ Brunell and his hospital trip for diabetes fiasco and the lottery like money given out to Mark if he thought Ramsey have the better chance at being his starter. yes i do believe Gibbs will let them fight it out and may the best man win.. but from what Gibbs have seen and analyzed since coming back he's certain the QB situation will play out by itself.. and his hand picked, smart and mobile, veteran QB will come on top to lead his team and complicated offense. Ramsey's career will do wonders by watching Gibbs and Brunell from the sidelines for a year or 2 and he will be that much of a better QB for us in the future for it.

[redwolf1218]

Ramsey's career will do wonders by watching Gibbs and Brunell from the sidelines for a year or 2 and he will be that much of a better QB for us in the future for it.
this is a great point. even when ramsey is the starter, i would have no problem paying brunell the same money to be ramsey's backup. he would be like another coach on the sidelines, and always a reliable and dependable option should something bad happen.

[whistleandthumb]

Gibbs hasn't gotten it wrong with a QB yet. If he wants Brunell, then Brunell it shall be. However, I agree that Ramsey is certainly on his way up, and probably has the better team chemistry. Hopefully, Brunell can make it all happen if he's the man put behind center.

[redwolf1218]

brunell or ramsey, whichever one starts and whichever one backs up the other, we have 2 starters which many teams would love to have.

[Carmelo]

brunell or ramsey, whichever one starts and whichever one backs up the other, we have 2 starters which many teams would love to have.
six in one hand and a half dozen in the other

[redwolf1218]

nowadays its rare to have 2 guys who could start without the team missing a beat, especially with salaries the way they are for top notch QB's, and salary cap considerations for the rest of the team. hardly anyone can make it thru the entire season and take every snap.

[Axegrinder]

actually did some checking here and I believe Brunell actually has a higher qb rating than Elway. Good point. Not Young or Montana though I don't think.
He didn't have their weapons either,which is a pretty good testament to how good he is.