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hail2skins
10-04-2004, 10:48 AM
Let's see

Our defense has allowed a total of 68 points in 4 games. That's an average of 17 points per game. Of those 68 points, 21 points resulted from offensive turnovers deep in our own territory. So for fun let's deduct those 21 points as if those turnovers never happened. That's 47 points allowed in 4 games with an average of 12. Deduct a TD from each one of those games and we're like 3-1 or 4-0.

POINT - Eliminate the turnovers, they are killing us.

RedskinRyan
10-04-2004, 11:00 AM
i was thinking about that. and if you consider that we've only giving up 21 points off of tunrovers in 4 games, the giants only got 7 points off ot 7 turnovers.

TexSkin
10-04-2004, 11:02 AM
The breaks have been against us. We will rebound. This team has heart and I am not giving up on the season.

dj_stouty
10-04-2004, 11:10 AM
Let's see

Our defense has allowed a total of 68 points in 4 games. That's an average of 17 points per game. Of those 68 points, 21 points resulted from offensive turnovers deep in our own territory. So for fun let's deduct those 21 points as if those turnovers never happened. That's 47 points allowed in 4 games with an average of 12. Deduct a TD from each one of those games and we're like 3-1 or 4-0.

POINT - Eliminate the turnovers, they are killing us.

But I'm not 100% confident that we would have won had we not given up those three touchdown-producing turnovers. I'm starting to think we would have found a different way to lose those games.

I'm really getting sick of losing by 4 or less points. Spurrier lost SIX games last year by 4 points or less. I thought this year would be different...

I think our offense needs to hold on to the ball more, AND our coach needs to find a different way to lead this team downfield. Obviously it isn't working right now.

joethefan
10-04-2004, 11:16 AM
Hey hail your very good with math....but it sounds good to me....Answer this one how many carries has Portis had this year?.....and divide that number by 4 and that's the average per carry he'll fumble thus far. I'm sure that's not a good stat either....

hail2skins
10-04-2004, 11:21 AM
Hey hail your very good with math....but it sounds good to me....Answer this one how many carries has Portis had this year?.....and divide that number by 4 and that's the average per carry he'll fumble thus far. I'm sure that's not a good stat either....

I'd rather see the glass as half full than half empty.

Anyway, he has 92 carries for 369 yards average 4 yards a pop. Projected to get 1476 and have a total of 16 fumbles. Courtesy of ESPN

dj_stouty
10-04-2004, 11:37 AM
I'd rather see the glass as half full than half empty.

Anyway, he has 92 carries for 369 yards average 4 yards a pop. Projected to get 1476 and have a total of 16 fumbles. Courtesy of ESPN

Actually....Portis only has 3 fumbles that were lost. His forth was recovered by himself. When broadcasters say a player has 6 fumbles in a season, they are only talking about the ones that are turnovers. Case in point...all broadcasters have been mentioning that Portis only had one fumble last year. In reality, he had 3...but only 1 of them was turned over to the defense.

But quite honestly...3 fumbles in 4 games is still horrific.

hail2skins
10-04-2004, 12:24 PM
But I'm not 100% confident that we would have won had we not given up those three touchdown-producing turnovers. I'm starting to think we would have found a different way to lose those games.

I'm really getting sick of losing by 4 or less points. Spurrier lost SIX games last year by 4 points or less. I thought this year would be different...

I think our offense needs to hold on to the ball more, AND our coach needs to find a different way to lead this team downfield. Obviously it isn't working right now.

I see your point but on those fumbles, we really put our defense in a bad situation and while they have been good, it's hard for them to bail us out every single time.

hail2skins
10-04-2004, 12:26 PM
Actually....Portis only has 3 fumbles that were lost. His forth was recovered by himself. When broadcasters say a player has 6 fumbles in a season, they are only talking about the ones that are turnovers. Case in point...all broadcasters have been mentioning that Portis only had one fumble last year. In reality, he had 3...but only 1 of them was turned over to the defense.

But quite honestly...3 fumbles in 4 games is still horrific.

You're right and the projection becomes 12. Still bad though. There's also the possibility he won't fumble again this season.

NamVet4
10-04-2004, 12:30 PM
Turnovers have always been the killers to a good game drive! And if watching our Beloved Team for over 20 years, especially during the Gibbs I era, has taught me anything it is that the issue is addressed everyday in every meeting by every coach! Now we must expect the players to execute without the turnovers.

Skins4life
10-04-2004, 12:59 PM
All of this talk about fumbles and turnovers. Freakin depressing. Anyway - we have been on the unlucky side of things for 3 weeks now. This can't continue - I mean - soon the ball will bounce our way. Joe will get it done.

Carmelo
10-04-2004, 12:59 PM
I see your point but on those fumbles, we really put our defense in a bad situation and while they have been good, it's hard for them to bail us out every single time.
I just hope they don't get to the point where they start to hate the offense. We had a thread about that before and we all jumped on the guy because we said that those things don't happen to a "Joe Gibbs Team." Well, we've seen a lot of stuff that aren't characteristic of a Joe Gibbs team and who knows what will happen. I just hope they don't start to resent the offense. I'm definitely of the mindset that this thing isn't anywhere near over and that when 1 or 2 things fall into place we'll be on a roll. I think we just have to turn the proverbial corner.

smoak
10-04-2004, 01:02 PM
Hey hail your very good with math....but it sounds good to me....Answer this one how many carries has Portis had this year?.....and divide that number by 4 and that's the average per carry he'll fumble thus far. I'm sure that's not a good stat either....

JTF -

great point. not to mention his YPC without that one long run is below avarage.

whistleandthumb
10-04-2004, 01:05 PM
Turnovers ARE killing us. But so is our piss poor offense. Score some effing points and maybe a turnover or two won't be the end of us. There's no reason this offense shouldn't be lighting it up for 25+ points/game.

BandWagon
10-04-2004, 01:10 PM
Turnovers ARE killing us. But so is our piss poor offense. Score some effing points and maybe a turnover or two won't be the end of us. There's no reason this offense shouldn't be lighting it up for 25+ points/game.

Yep, I've been thinking the same thing. But in watching the scores yesterday there were a lot of games with scores under 20. So it's not like we're without company. Even Philly only ran up 19.

PennSkinsFan
10-04-2004, 01:11 PM
Let's see

Our defense has allowed a total of 68 points in 4 games. That's an average of 17 points per game. Of those 68 points, 21 points resulted from offensive turnovers deep in our own territory. So for fun let's deduct those 21 points as if those turnovers never happened. That's 47 points allowed in 4 games with an average of 12. Deduct a TD from each one of those games and we're like 3-1 or 4-0.

POINT - Eliminate the turnovers, they are killing us.

Actually more stats now even point to Washington's three losses coming from Washington themselves, not by superior play by the other team. Take a look....

First downs.....we have 67 compared to giving up 53

We have 21 rushing first downs, we have given up only 13 rushing first downs.

We have 40 passing first downs compared to giving up 37.

We have outgained in total yards, 1262 yards to our opponents 1013 yards

We have rushed for 441 yards, and our defense has only given up 238 rushing yards.

We have passed for 821 yards whiole giving up less at 775 yards

We have controlled the clock with total possession average at 31:59 compared to our opponents 28:01

we have only allowed 13 third down coversions out of 53 chances, a mere 24%

These are numbers of a team with a winning record, which of coruse, we are 1-3, all points to turnovers.

CarMike
10-04-2004, 01:11 PM
Enough with the one long run crap. I had it and its in the friggen stats. Can we not let that stupid term die?

What has been killing us is our redzone offense. It kills us everytime we have the ball for 6+ minutes and wind up with 3 pts instead of a TD. TOP is lost when we hold the ball that long and only get a FG. Especially when it seems that the team we're playing gets the ball back and answers with a TD.

I want to see some screen passes next week against a very aggressive defense. And how about a couple of trick plays in the redzone. Like the HB toss or WR pass. Gardner has thrown 2 TDs on that play...

#1SkInSfAn
10-04-2004, 01:14 PM
Turnovers ARE killing us. But so is our piss poor offense. Score some effing points and maybe a turnover or two won't be the end of us. There's no reason this offense shouldn't be lighting it up for 25+ points/game.
Yes there is and its the limp wristed mark brunell. J/K turnovers are killing us as is either mark not getting the ball to our recievers down feild or our recievers not getting open down feild. Kind of off topic but did anyone see him try to force that pass to cooley with rod gardener wide open in the endzone. Bad offense and turnovers have both taken their toll on this team.

Keino
10-04-2004, 01:20 PM
The Bottomline for me is this:

Our Stars are letting us down. Period. Portis has had 3 critical fumbles in 2 losses. Coles has had Critical Drops in one loss and a Unexcuseable fumble on our final drive. Gardner has had a few drops, but none more crucial than the one against the Gianst that would've put us ahead in games.

These are all Players entrenched in their positions. None of whom had to fight anyone off to keep their spots. The guys we count on to make plays, and they simply haven't done it. Clock managment issues aside, we don't have to use a challenge if CP holds onto the ball.

And the Defense, while deserving of props, has to shoulder some of the blame for yesterday. Sometimes you have to make a stop and keep the lead. Our defense failed to do that.

dj_stouty
10-04-2004, 01:20 PM
JTF -

great point. not to mention his YPC without that one long run is below avarage.

Runs of 50+ are how Portis gets a lot of his yardage. Do you think he averaged 5.5 over 2 years in Denver by pounding it 4 or 6 yards on every carry? Nope. He got 5.5ypc by tearing off 50, 60 and even 70 yard runs every so often. Take those big runs in Denver away from him, and I'll bet you find a sub 4.0ypc runner. Guys like him tend to have rollercoaster ypc averages through the year. If he tears one off against the Ravens or Bears, his average will skyrocket again.

whistleandthumb
10-04-2004, 01:20 PM
Yes there is and its the limp wristed mark brunell. J/K turnovers are killing us as is either mark not getting the ball to our recievers down feild or our recievers not getting open down feild. Kind of off topic but did anyone see him try to force that pass to cooley with rod gardener wide open in the endzone. Bad offense and turnovers have both taken their toll on this team.
About the Gardner pass -

After re-watching that play a couple times, I think Gardner only became open as the DB came off him to come to Cooley as the pass was being released. Brunell was running toward the sideline, and if he had pump faked, I think he would have run out of bounds. So Gardner was only open as a result of the pass going towards Cooley... I don't think it would have been completed to Rod had Brunell thrown to him instead. I hope that makes some sense.

akhhorus
10-04-2004, 01:25 PM
These are numbers of a team with a winning record, which of coruse, we are 1-3, all points to turnovers.

Gibbs is almost undefeated when his team wins the turnover battle, wins about 50/50 when it's tied and loses 65/35 when his team loses the turnover battle. Are things bad for the skins? Sort-of. But they arent outmatched by teams, they're beating themselves. End of Story.

smoak
10-04-2004, 01:31 PM
Runs of 50+ are how Portis gets a lot of his yardage. Do you think he averaged 5.5 over 2 years in Denver by pounding it 4 or 6 yards on every carry? Nope. He got 5.5ypc by tearing off 50, 60 and even 70 yard runs every so often. Take those big runs in Denver away from him, and I'll bet you find a sub 4.0ypc runner. Guys like him tend to have rollercoaster ypc averages through the year. If he tears one off against the Ravens or Bears, his average will skyrocket again.

good point, but i think his average YPC is still low... it isn't all his fault, but i get very frustrated with offensive players that turn the ball over. b/c of that i am very critical of him today. i am still confident he'll be where he needs to be at the end of the season.

all that said, i am going to criticize hime again. without that run, portis is averaging approximately 3.3 YPC (4.0 with it). trung candidate was at 4.2 for 2003.

i'm sure portis will bust all over ray lewis and i'll go get the mcfarlane figure coming out, but i am VERY frustrated today.

#1SkInSfAn
10-04-2004, 01:32 PM
About the Gardner pass -

After re-watching that play a couple times, I think Gardner only became open as the DB came off him to come to Cooley as the pass was being released. Brunell was running toward the sideline, and if he had pump faked, I think he would have run out of bounds. So Gardner was only open as a result of the pass going towards Cooley... I don't think it would have been completed to Rod had Brunell thrown to him instead. I hope that makes some sense.
Perfect sense actually I kind of noticed that myself but I think if he could have thrown the ball with some more zip on it he could have completed to cooley or grdener but the ball just wasnt getting there fast enough. However I do agree with you about how he became wide open but there was deffinatly room for a throw to his inside shoulder if we had some speed on the ball IMO.

smoak
10-04-2004, 01:33 PM
The Bottomline for me is this:

Our Stars are letting us down. Period. Portis has had 3 critical fumbles in 2 losses. Coles has had Critical Drops in one loss and a Unexcuseable fumble on our final drive. Gardner has had a few drops, but none more crucial than the one against the Gianst that would've put us ahead in games.

These are all Players entrenched in their positions. None of whom had to fight anyone off to keep their spots. The guys we count on to make plays, and they simply haven't done it. Clock managment issues aside, we don't have to use a challenge if CP holds onto the ball.

And the Defense, while deserving of props, has to shoulder some of the blame for yesterday. Sometimes you have to make a stop and keep the lead. Our defense failed to do that.

amen keino! i could not agree more (but i though portis had either 4 or 5 fumbles so far).

TexSkin
10-04-2004, 01:36 PM
More importantly our offense stars are letting us down. The defense is playing dam good.Which really suprises me. I thought our defense would be the weak link in the team. Offense just takes more time to gel. If we can get to the bye at 500 I think we will start a run for a decent record.

hail2skins
10-04-2004, 01:37 PM
amen keino! i could not agree more (but i though portis had either 4 or 5 fumbles so far).

He has 4 fumbles but only lost 3

LadyNRedskinsfan
10-04-2004, 01:47 PM
its ashame that our boneheadedness has caused us to lose games, because we SHOULD be a winning team. shoulda, coulda, woulda. its the stupid penalties, turnovers anf drops that is killing this team. period. we cut this crap out, we win.

smoak
10-04-2004, 01:49 PM
He has 4 fumbles but only lost 3

yeah, i just looked it up and found that out... i was at the bucs game so i guess they attributed that fumble to brunell.