Official 2nd President Debate Thread

[akhhorus]

and yes, I will be writing out my thoughts here like I did during the VP debate.

[Spence]

I suspect my pal Axegrinder will be torn between the first and final choices.

[akhhorus]

I suspect my pal Axegrinder will be torn between the first and final choices.

This is why I'm drinking during my blogging tonight.

[Minnesota Mike]

Up against the Yankees/Twins. Good thing I have UltimateTV.

[akhhorus]

The current under/overs:
mentions of WMD: 40
Bush saying "Of course": 20
Kerry saying "Wrong": 30
mentions of the recent jobs report: 7 by Bush, 20 by Kerry
Bush blank stares: 5
Kerry saying "umm": 10


any takers?

[tommahawk]

Kerry saying umm shounds like good odds but thats about it.

[Minnesota Mike]

The current under/overs:
Bush blank stares: 5

any takers?

This one is tricky. Bush could very easily give one continuous blank stare for the entire 90 minutes.

What is the over/under on Bush saying "It's hard work."?

[akhhorus]

This one is tricky. Bush could very easily give one continuous blank stare for the entire 90 minutes.

What is the over/under on Bush saying "It's hard work."?

15, I forgot to post that one.

[Carmelo]

Are they going to q-tip bush's ear before the start of the debate? Do we get to frisk 'em? I suggest a pat down.

15, I forgot to post that one.
He can't say that more than once tonight. He can't. I'm sure his "handlers" have warned him against that. I'm not a fan of Bush but even I don't want to see him fall into that mantra again.

[Minnesota Mike]

Are they going to q-tip bush's ear before the start of the debate? Do we get to frisk 'em? I suggest a pat down.


He can't say that more than once tonight. He can't. I'm sure his "handlers" have warned him against that. I'm not a fan of Bush but even I don't want to see him fall into that mantra again.

These debates are hard work. And debating without someone talking in your ear.... well that's hard work too.

[KingButz]

There's no way Bush says "it's hard work" even once tonight.

[akhhorus]

There's no way Bush says "it's hard work" even once tonight.

if he does, it will probably be a long night for him.

[RedskinsVision]

i got 0 on Bush going the route of Cheney and asking us to log into "factcheck.COM"

[akhhorus]

i got 0 on Bush going the route of Cheney and asking us to log into "factcheck.COM"

or as the Daily Show suggested: fatchicks.org lmao

[akhhorus]

Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls...Welcome to Thunderdome!!!

and yes, im doing this for purely post padding.

[akhhorus]

none of the "undecided" voters look like people I would want living next to me.

[akhhorus]

More garish colors for surroundings.

[akhhorus]

no punches thrown, good start...

[akhhorus]

first question, first statement, first mention of WMDs...Shocker.

[fent]

bush already looks better than last time

[akhhorus]

two Bush pauses in one statement

[PGiddy18]

Official Count for Bush mentionings:

9/11- 3 times

Al-Queda- 3 times

Sadam- 4 times

Weapons/WMD- 7 times.

2 minutes... impressive

[akhhorus]

Kerry's being aggressive coming out and hitting Bush, so is Bush.

[akhhorus]

The voters asking questions look like they were bussed in from a methadone clinic.

[fent]

The voters asking questions look like they were bussed in from a methadone clinic.

the last one, mr. baldy appears to have the mange

[Skins57]

Bush seems to be doing a little better so far but its early

[Carmelo]

I know how these people think. I meet with them all the time.

[akhhorus]

I would like to point out that neither candidate is saying anything new.

[Skins57]

Kerry needs to quit talking to Bush and focus on the people

[akhhorus]

First: "Of course" by Bush

[fent]

i'm about to faint...a normal looking person asking a question!

[PGiddy18]

i'm about to faint...a normal looking person asking a question!

I like her top... i wonder where she got it...

[fent]

I like her top... i wonder where she got it...

:shakes head: only a woman.... ;)

[PGiddy18]

:shakes head: only a woman.... ;)

Hey now! I'm just pointing it out. Would be a welcome addition to my closet. If the candidates were saying something new... then maybe i'd pay more attention

[Skins57]

thinking the same thing :D but can understand we have heard this all before. I want to hear more on economy

[akhhorus]

Still saying nothing new...

[Spence]

Stop yelling...

[Skins57]

should have put a bowl of pretzels out there for George :D

[akhhorus]

Bush looks like he's about to break out in song.

[PGiddy18]

thinking the same thing :D but can understand we have heard this all before. I want to hear more on economy


So do I! And i'm esp. curious with the unemployment numbers being released today.

[Skins57]

another fairly normal person

[akhhorus]

So do I! And i'm esp. curious with the unemployment numbers being released today.

i can predict that one for you: both sides will say they prove their points.

[akhhorus]

everyone else see Ted washington's white brother in the front row?

[fent]

everyone else see Ted washington's white brother in the front row?

bastard stole my line :banghead:

[akhhorus]

First Bush smirk.

[Skins57]

yup but I still can't get past the only pres to lose jobs in his term

[PGiddy18]

another fairly normal person

I have an outfit like that... cute.

Anybody know who Bush is winking at?

[akhhorus]

First Bush looking bored and thinking of dinner.

[Skins57]

if there was no weapons as W has said now, how could he be decieving the inspecters

[fent]

First Bush looking bored and thinking of dinner.

damned ADD

[akhhorus]

I have an outfit like that... cute.

Anybody know who Bush is winking at?

that joke is too easy.

[MrWiggles]

Why does Bush keep yelling, then winking at me?

[Skins57]

Chris Farleys brother

[fent]

hey...it's the long lost Non-Funny brother of Chris!

[PGiddy18]

oh no.. the dreaded "D" word...

[akhhorus]

if there was no weapons as W has said now, how could he be decieving the inspecters

Good point. Very good point.


"INTERNETS" lmao

[PGiddy18]

hey...it's the long lost Non-Funny brother of Chris!

Day late and a dollar short :D

[Skins57]

smart weapons.... dumb president :D

[akhhorus]

great funny blog on the debate:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/blog/10/08/klein.blog/index.html

Priceless expression


Jessi Klein
Posted: 9:23 p.m. ET

Bush's face is completely priceless right now. He was obviously coached this time not to smirk when Kerry was talking, but the new result is that he looks like a guy failing to hold in an enormous smirk. It's not unlike the way a person looks, well, after he's passed gas in a pool and doesn't want anyone to see the bubbles.

[Skins57]

."INTERNETS" lmao


I laughed at that one too

[Skins57]

he said "backdoor draft" :D

[fent]

wow...he's getting aggressive

[akhhorus]

Bush is turning Red...really turning red.

[Skins57]

tell him to shut up

[PGiddy18]

I think a fight is gonna break out. :sfight:

[Skins57]

what is on her shoulder

[akhhorus]

another weirdo who looks like she kills cats in her spare time

[fent]

coked up gramma alert

[akhhorus]

look at Bush, he's pink!

[Skins57]

wasn't her name Anne?? and John called her Nikki

[akhhorus]

Bush is blinking like a lizard.

[Skins57]

first... working hard

[akhhorus]

if you cut out the campaign slogans, this would be about 20 seconds long.

[akhhorus]

first... working hard

seonc or third.

[Skins57]

about time

[Skins57]

making sure the drugs are safe?????? come on how about helping out his big company friends

[Skins57]

ok I am getting wound up, I need to relax and not be so one sided :D yea right

[fent]

the house sat on it...not bush

[Skins57]

wow slap to the face

[PGiddy18]

While i found the Budget Comment a little humorous, I have to blast Kerry for not sticking to the topic!

[akhhorus]

punches will be thrown tonight.


ANOTHER weirdo.

[fent]

punches will be thrown tonight.

especially after kerry's adolescent "go figure" closing

[PGiddy18]

question is: Johnkerry.com or johnkerry.gov

maybe its .org...

[akhhorus]

I think Bush just called Kerry, Senator Kennedy.


it's .com ppgidddy

[akhhorus]

I need a refill....brb

[Skins57]

which was a surplus.

[PGiddy18]

I think Bush just called Kerry, Senator Kennedy.


it's .com pgidddy
:p

Bush is definately doing MUCH better so far than he did in the last debate.

[Skins57]

then why try to cut soldiers pay

[akhhorus]

:p

Bush is definately doing MUCH better so far than he did in the last debate.

yeah, but Kerry is loooking as good or better.

[Skins57]

I thought the child credit only went up 400. not sure but I thought

[akhhorus]

Wow...Did Kerry look good with that pledge.

[Skins57]

green eye shades ??????????

[akhhorus]

"Battling Green Eye Shades"??

[Skins57]

fuzzy math is that a college course :D

[akhhorus]

Ive seen fire and Ive seen rain...is that James Taylor asking the question?

[Skins57]

I see Kerry winning this question big but I guess we will see

[Skins57]

Red Sox fan????????????

[akhhorus]

Bush defending his enviromental record...wow.

[PGiddy18]

Red Sox fan????????????

I dunno... but according to my sister he's from boston....maybe its a plug...

[Skins57]

disappointing Kerry response

[akhhorus]

Another weirdo!

[PGiddy18]

...definately don't own that outfit... nor will i be shopping for it anytime soon

[akhhorus]

...definately don't own that outfit... nor will i be shopping for it anytime soon

Im glad to see you keep your eye on the real ball here Pgggiddy

[Skins57]

...definately don't own that outfit... nor will i be shopping for it anytime soon

:lol1: :lol1: come on try it out

[akhhorus]

So the Republicans run the Senate, but Kerry and Edwards stopped the legislation...huh?

[Skins57]

got wood

[akhhorus]

Bush better be sure he doesnt own a timber company. Or he looks like Chevy Chase in Caddyshack.

[PGiddy18]

Im glad to see you keep your eye on the real ball here Pgggiddy

Hey! I am paying attention, you are the one that calls them all weirdo's~! Its not my fault they brought in the corn people to ask the questions...

:lol1: :lol1: come on try it out

Maybe next time...

[Skins57]

What the heck was the timber company thing about???

[akhhorus]

another gem from the CNN blog:

"This is beautiful. Bush just said that the administration before him endangered the environment by not making sure the forests were properly "harvested" in order to protect them from wildfires.

That's just beautiful. I have to say that's very comforting -- I've always considered the wetlands to be a real fire hazard. You know what else is very flammable? Panda bears. They're bone dry. We got at least two or three of those suckers at our national zoos. It's sad, but we should probably kill them for the sake of the greater good"

[Skins57]

excellent last statement

[Skins57]

another gem from the CNN blog:

"This is beautiful. Bush just said that the administration before him endangered the environment by not making sure the forests were properly "harvested" in order to protect them from wildfires.

That's just beautiful. I have to say that's very comforting -- I've always considered the wetlands to be a real fire hazard. You know what else is very flammable? Panda bears. They're bone dry. We got at least two or three of those suckers at our national zoos. It's sad, but we should probably kill them for the sake of the greater good"
:lol1: :lol1:

[akhhorus]

Bush is looking bored again.

[MrWiggles]

Did Bush just say "are existed"?

[PGiddy18]

"I'm not telling" :doh: :shakes head:

[Skins57]

Dick Cheney

[Skins57]

oh wait he is already president :D

[Skins57]

I thinkn the guy behind Bush was sleeping :D

[PGiddy18]

oh wait he is already president :D
:lol1:

[akhhorus]

I thinkn the guy behind Bush was sleeping :D

cann you blame him?

[PGiddy18]

I like this question.

[Skins57]

sounds like he knows what he made mistakes on and just won't admit it

[PGiddy18]

sounds like he knows what he made mistakes on and just won't admit it

No silly, he didn't make mistakes. If in the future, when he isn't president, and when he is 6ft under, and people say "GW made a mistake" THAT is when he will admitt it.

[Carmelo]

No silly, he didn't make mistakes. If in the future, when he isn't president, and when he is 6ft under, and people say "GW made a mistake" THAT is when he will admitt it.
He could have said ANYTHING. He could have said he tried to make a steak and cheese with wheat bread. He could have said he cheered for the cowgirls. He could have said ANYTHING!!! He never said three mistakes. He didn't even have to mention Iraq.

[PGiddy18]

He could have said ANYTHING. He could have said he tried to make a steak and cheese with wheat bread. He could have said he cheered for the cowgirls. He could have said ANYTHING!!! He never said three mistakes. He didn't even have to mention Iraq.

:doh: :devil2: CHEESE STEAK. CHEESE-STEAK!!!.... oh goodness carmelo!

[Skins57]

He didn't even have to mention Iraq.


sounds like he is feeling guilty about something

[Spence]

Bush reported timber revenue.

From the non-partisan FactCheck.org. [The one Mr Cheney tried to quote from Tuesday night.]President Bush himself would have qualified as a "small business owner" under the Republican definition, based on his 2001 federal income tax returns. He reported $84 of business income from his part ownership of a timber-growing enterprise. However, 99.99% of Bush's total income came from other sources that year. (Bush also qualified as a "small business owner" in 2000 based on $314 of "business income," but not in 2002 and 2003 when he reported his timber income as "royalties" on a different tax schedule.)Source (http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx@DocID=265)

[Skins57]

who won?

[Carmelo]

sounds like he is feeling guilty about something
exactly my point. It shows his largest flaw. He can't admit weakness. I think kerry was weak for not pouncing on this. He charges kerry with flip flopping for political reasons yet he can't admit mistakes for political reasons.

[Skins57]

Bush reported timber revenue.

From the non-partisan FactCheck.org. [The one Mr Cheney tried to quote from Tuesday night.]Source (http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx@DocID=265)
you mean the fact check site thatwasn't linked to Soros site? :D

Spence I thanks for the info. Man the timber thing blew me away. Some serious reseacrh by Kerry's people

[Skins57]

dp you tink secret service is freaking right now

[akhhorus]

more of the same, but I think Kerry can rack this up as a win because of his stare into the camera and made a strong statement that he wouldnt raise taxes.

[suppitty]

Kerry had a chance to do much better than he did. Could have put himself ahead, but instead it was a draw.

[Skins57]

I think this one was close and Kerry did do well with that pledge

[Jimreaper007]

Kerry won this debate...

He had more answers on the important issues like healthcare and jobs while Bush spent his time explaining why Kerry's plan will not work...

This was a very defining moment for Kerry as he connected with people and their everyday lives.

Smart people will realize that Bush did not respond with any type of plan or ideas for the next four years with the exception of Iraq (which did not help him any)

Where did Bush come up with those job creation numbers???

[PA Skins Girl]

Bush was much stronger than he was in the first debate. He had more facts than Kerry. All Kerry ever says is he has a plan, but never says what the plan is. Kerry won the first debate. Bush won this one. In my mind anyway.

[Spence]

Next time: Less caffeine in Mr Bush's coffee.

[akhhorus]

I would have liked to seen his BP through the debate. He turned pink at times.

[akhhorus]

CNN Poll(unscientific) has it 92-8 win for Kerry

[akhhorus]

MSNBC(unscientific) has it 77-23 for Kerry.

[suppitty]

I know all the online polls have had kerry/edwards winning their debates easily, but i honestly don't think kerry won tonight, i think edwards was beaten by cheney, and i think the first debate was a kerry win mostly because bush just beat himself.

[Skinzaholic]

One easy way to tell that the President won this debate is to read this thread -

1/3 time spent ridiculing citizens asking questions
1/3 time trying hard to make Kerry say things he didnt
1/3 time admiring chosen audience attire

[Jimskin]

If you thought the "Rodney King" shit was bad, If GW gets back into the "White House" 'ALL HELL'S FIXIN' TO BREAKLOOSE"!!!

[akhhorus]

One easy way to tell that the President won this debate is to read this thread -

1/3 time spent ridiculing citizens asking questions
1/3 time trying hard to make Kerry say things he didnt
1/3 time admiring chosen audience attire

did you see the people who were asking the questions? wow.

[Skinzaholic]

did you see the people who were asking the questions? wow.


I did - not sure where they came from - I drove through Missouri once and didnt see any like that. :lol1:

[akhhorus]

I did - not sure where they came from - I drove through Missouri once and didnt see any like that. :lol1:

They looked like they were from a methodone clinic.

[SkinsKY]

I think Bush had some opportunities to come clean on some things and and show a contrite spirit, but he didn't do that. He said some things that didn't make sense. Lower taxes but prosecute a war? I'm not sure how one does that. I thought the questions about never vetoing a spending bill and the three mistakes were both good questions, and I thought he missed both of them. Kerry did well with the not raising taxes and I thought his abortion question was very well handled and not hard to decipher like Dubya stated. Maybe hard for him.

As someone who is more conservative than both candidates, I hoped Dubya would make a strong showing. While I feel he did better than I expected, I don't think he gave a weak showing and had opportunities to win supporters and couldn't he caters exclusively to his hard core supporters, which renders him incapable of bridging the gap. I have to strike a win for Kerry here.

[Skinzaholic]

Dubya

Kerry


And we are supposed to take anything you say as non-biased? :rolleyes:

[akhhorus]

And we are supposed to take anything you say as non-biased? :rolleyes:

Get a grip dude. I heard FOX refer to Bush as "Dubya" and Novak and George Will.

[Skinzaholic]

Get a grip dude. I heard FOX refer to Bush as "Dubya" and Novak and George Will.


I think they were wrong as well - if John Kerry wins this election I will still refer to him as the President... shows respect... which the younger generations sorely lack IMO.

[akhhorus]

I think they were wrong as well - if John Kerry wins this election I will still refer to him as the President... shows respect... which the younger generations sorely lack IMO.

Youre only 8 years older than me, hardly an "older" generation.

[Skinzaholic]

Youre only 8 years older than me, hardly an "older" generation.


I wasnt referring to you.

[akhhorus]

I wasnt referring to you.

But youre hardly the "Older" generation around here.

[Spence]

In fairness to SkinsKY, I hear people call Mr Bush W all the time. The first time I heard it was in 1999, when my then-boss [a very right-wing Christian Scientist and lead partner in a K Street firm] called Bush W. I'm sure SkinsKY meant no disrespect. If he wanted to diss Mr Bush he could have used a lot of other terms. For example, he could have called him a...Nah. I'll be a good boy for a few minutes longer. :)

[Skinzaholic]

In fairness to SkinsKY, I hear people call Mr Bush W all the time. The first time I heard it was in 1999, when my then-boss [a very right-wing Christian Scientist and lead partner in a K Street firm] called Bush W. I'm sure SkinsKY meant no disrespect. If he wanted to diss Mr Bush he could have used a lot of other terms. For example, he could have called him a...Nah. I'll be a good boy for a few minutes longer. :)


You may be correct - but I feel there is a big difference between calling someone "W" and calling them "Dubya" - (obviously insinuating that he is mentally slow). Im not trying to claim SkinsKY meant any respect at all - Im sure he didnt even realize it - but it is still disrespectful to speak about the President of the US that way - that has always been my personal view.

I had plenty of people around me calling President Clinton all sorts of crazy names - and I stood up for him as well. I was brought up that way.

[Spence]

For what these are worth...According to a DNC press release, respondents to ABC News' "insta-poll" declared Kerry the winner by a slim margin:

Kerry: 44%

Bush: 41%

Gallup comes up with a similar answer: According to Larry King, the polling firm's survey of 515 voters produces a two-point Kerry lead, 47-45.

[Spence]

Funnily enough, some of Kerry's best reviews are coming from Fox:Mort Kondracke: "... I think Kerry won this debate as he won the first debate I don't think... I thought that Kerry was much more aggressive and the president was basically on the defense and didn't have new arguments didn't have...wasn't as facile as he should have been." [Fox News Channel, 10/8/04]

Bill Kristol: "I guess I think if you think the President was doing okay and didn't need a win in this debate, he did fine, but I think, if one thinks that Bush missed an awful lot of opportunities to go after Kerry in the first debate he had to make some of them up in this debate, I'm not sure he really succeeded in doing so." [Fox New Channel, 10/8/04]

Brit Hume: "Is it now fair to say that in each of these debates in terms of marshaling arguments, and remembering them and presenting them that this is something John Kerry has proved he is very good at. And that it doesn't play to the president's strong suit." [Fox News Channel, 10/8/04]

Mort Kondracke: "I thought [Kerry] was very effective. I thought that he was also on the attack a lot and frankly I thought that the President seemed to be on the defense a lot and trying to explain things and not explaining them all that well." [Fox News Channel, 10/8/04]

Jonah Goldberg: "On the question of whether Bush did everything he needed to tonight, I don't think so. I think he helped himself, but Kerry leaves these debates energized." [National Review Online, 10/8/04]

Mark Shields: "He just absolutely, I thought, demolished the President's claims about the coalition in Iraq." [PBS, 10/8/04]

James Fallows, Atlantic Monthly: [Kerry's best moment] "I think his best moment was at the series of new lines. Again like this Missouri line of saying that that I was able to do with some of my votes in the Senate what you have failed to do, which is balance the budget, so I think it was the general vividness of his approach." [CBS, 10/8/04]

[Spence]

Because of my professional background, I might be the only one who cares about this, but I'll write it anyway. Mr Bush said that the Dred Scott decision was based on property rights. That's incorrect. The Dred Scott decision was based solely on race. Chief Justice Taney, who wrote the majority opinion, was a staunch supporter of slavery. He wrote that because Dred Scott was black, he was not a citizen of the U.S. and therefore had no right to sue. It's was a property rights decision, the opinion rested on skin color alone.

[Spence]

One other thought. I don't know what the ratings for this debate will be, but putting it on a Friday night, one of the worst TV viewing nights of the week, was absolutely shameful. I'm sure the Nets loved it because they didn't have to pre-empt any of their high-rated programs. [It makes no difference to MSNBC since they don't have any high-rated programs.] Nevertheless, the debate should have been on a weeknight, like the other two prez debates were/are and the VP debate was.

[MrWiggles]

Funnily enough, some of Kerry's best reviews are coming from Fox:

I saw this and thought I must have hit my head on something and woken up in the twilight zone. I then thanked the lord for finally giving me the free time to read a book. I promptly sat on my glasses.

[Minnesota Mike]

Next time: Less caffeine in Mr Bush's coffee.

Laura thinks to herself "But he never has a second cup at home."

[Minnesota Mike]

It is nice to hear that Bush wouldn't appoint a SC Justice that would uphold Slavery if he is re-elected. You have got to be kidding me!! Isn't there any other SC decision since 1856 that might disagree with:

Like Plessy v. Fergusson, perhaps.

What about 1824's Gibbons v. Ogden. I think that ought to be a litmus test for Court appointees.

[Minnesota Mike]

Using boxing's "10 point must" scoring, I would say the first event Kerry came out on top 10-6. Last night would be Kerry 10-9.

They both went out of there respective ways to not answer good chunks of questions. And because neither of them was innocent, they couldn't call each other on it. Gibson tried to, but he was a little too polite to make them stick to the question.

"That's a good question Nikki, and I'm going to answer it by not answering it."

And as far as the methodone influenced audience, they said at the top of the event that assembled an audience of "undecided voters". Honestly to be undecided at this point of the process you just about have to be either brain-dead or living under a rock.

[SkinsKY]

It is nice to hear that Bush wouldn't appoint a SC Justice that would uphold Slavery if he is re-elected. You have got to be kidding me!! Isn't there any other SC decision since 1856 that might disagree with:

Like Plessy v. Fergusson, perhaps.

What about 1824's Gibbons v. Ogden. I think that ought to be a litmus test for Court appointees.

Personally, I was hoping to hear him comment on the Alien and Sedition Acts, but he failed miserably in that area.

[Spence]

http://www.fantasy3d.com/blogs/images/wringer.jpg

[Carmelo]

http://www.fantasy3d.com/blogs/images/wringer.jpg
This is last years halloween party. He's got the monkey outfit on and he's bobbing for apples.
was i supposed to caption that?

[akhhorus]

Laura thinks to herself "But he never has a second cup at home."

Im probably the only person who got that joke.

[Spence]

Im probably the only person who got that joke.You think so?

George never vomits at home.

[akhhorus]

You think so?

George never vomits at home.

George, have you ever been to a Turkish prison?

[Axegrinder]

I suspect my pal Axegrinder will be torn between the first and final choices.
:D Yessiree!
I voted #1 though.
Bush looks like a contestant in the Battle Of The Network Stars.You can draw your own conclusions!

[Spence]

George, have you ever been to a Turkish prison?Do you like Gladiator movies?

[Spence]

Bush looks like a contestant in the Battle Of The Network Stars.You can draw your own conclusions!Axe never fails to crack me up. :)

[akhhorus]

Do you like Gladiator movies?

The hell I dont! I've been hearing that crap ever since I was at Andover. I'm out there busting my buns every night. Tell your old man to drag Chirac and Schoder up and down the UN for 48 minutes.

[NamVet4]

I'm glad I watched the Yankee game . . and I still don't know crap about baseball.
And if I had watched the debate last night, I still wouldn't know any more crap about either candidtae!

~sigh ~ :( pathetic. . . .

[Spence]

Black, please. I like my presidents like I like my men.

[PGiddy18]

Black, please. I like my presidents like I like my men.

:lol1: oh boy....

[Jimreaper007]

Did anyone else notice that GW did not offer up a healthcare plan like Kerry did. He spent his time explaining how Kerry's plan would not work.


Let me get this straight....

1. He lost more jobs than anyone in 72 years
2. He has control of both houses and the Supreme Court
3. Iraq is a cluster-f*ck

I think these debates are showing Bush for what he is. A guy using the war to try to stay in office.

That has to be it, unless someone cares to point out anything that he has done that has made the country better, safer....

[akhhorus]

Did anyone else notice that GW did not offer up a healthcare plan like Kerry did. He spent his time explaining how Kerry's plan would not work.


Let me get this straight....

1. He lost more jobs than anyone in 72 years
2. He has control of both houses and the Supreme Court
3. Iraq is a cluster-f*ck

I think these debates are showing Bush for what he is. A guy using the war to try to stay in office.

That has to be it, unless someone cares to point out anything that he has done that has made the country better, safer....


I think thats a tad negative, but I do agree with Broder: Bush will not waver at all from his message and I think he's willing to lose the election all the same.

[Jimreaper007]

First Off I love the town hall format

Politicians can bull-crap an answer to a moderator, but you cannot bull crap Joe/Jane the voter.

I think people got more out of this debate than the other two combined simply because they could really identify with the questions being asked. Those are some of the same questions they had.


On that note Bush made zero connections with the voters...

The fact is although he slams Kerry's record, Bush has majorities everywhere and has done nothing over the past four years to better protect this country and make people's lives better.

Instead of breaking out the "GW health care plan" or the "GW job/Economic plan" he just criticized Kerry's Plan.

I think the American People especially those who do not have jobs or are the working poor would rather hear someone who has a plan over the guy saying stay the course and criticizing the other guy's plan.

Kerry is making that connection where Bush is falling short.

[Axegrinder]

First Off I love the town hall format

Politicians can bull-crap an answer to a moderator, but you cannot bull crap Joe/Jane the voter.

I think people got more out of this debate than the other two combined simply because they could really identify with the questions being asked. Those are some of the same questions they had.


On that note Bush made zero connections with the voters...

The fact is although he slams Kerry's record, Bush has majorities everywhere and has done nothing over the past four years to better protect this country and make people's lives better.

Instead of breaking out the "GW health care plan" or the "GW job/Economic plan" he just criticized Kerry's Plan.

I think the American People especially those who do not have jobs or are the working poor would rather hear someone who has a plan over the guy saying stay the course and criticizing the other guy's plan.

Kerry is making that connection where Bush is falling short.
I'm hearing you JimReaper007!

[dukeuch]

Bush was much stronger than he was in the first debate. He had more facts than Kerry. All Kerry ever says is he has a plan, but never says what the plan is. Kerry won the first debate. Bush won this one. In my mind anyway.

Don't confuse spouting figures and making claims with having facts. A lot of what Bush said raised my eyebrows and on one issue I decided to do a little research. Take a look at a thread I started called Bush's Environmental Record (not becuase I am vain, but because it is a prime example of how Bush makes a simple claim, or statement of fact, which upon a little review, turns out to be totally misleading).

It is sort of like what Kerry said about Bush's "consistency", it is not a virtue to be consistent if you are wrong.