An interesting anecdote regarding the Swift Boat Ads

[akhhorus]

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Nightline...d=166434&page=3

ABC news went to Vietnam to check out the stories of Kerry's service there and to see if anyone remembered what happened. By and large, the Vietnamese who were there tell stories that jive with Kerry's version, but an extremely interesting anecdote was buried in this story:

"Back in Tran Thoi, villager Nguyen Van Khoai said that about six months ago he was visited by an American who described himself as a Swift boat veteran and told him another American from the Swift boats was running for president of the United States. Nguyen said the man was accompanied by a cameraman.

"They say he didn't do anything to deserve the medal," Nguyen said. "The other day, they came and asked me the questions and I said that the recognition for the medal is up to the U.S.A."

He said that, after they met, the Swift Boat veteran and the cameraman turned around and went back down the river. Nightline has not been able to identify the men."

[Spence]

Tut tut tut. These guys sure are well-funded, eh? My guess is Karl Rove had the entire Swift Boat Liars for Bush campaign planned out by the time Kerry won the New Hampshire primary.

[Jimreaper007]

Bush probably has only spent $5 dollars out of his warchest....Karl Rove is the master of dirt and crap.

[Spence]

Nightline did an excellent reporting job on Vietnamese memories of the incidents under dispute from the Swift Boat anti-Kerry vets. No big surprise that the evidence there comports with the bulk of the evidence here: that the Swiftees are simply wrong. Check out the whole story. Money quote:According to the citation for Kerry's Silver Star, when the boats approached the hamlet, "a B-40 rocket exploded close aboard PCF 94" — Kerry's boat. He "personally led a landing party ashore in pursuit of the enemy," the citation says, before commending Kerry's "extraordinary daring and personal courage" for "attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire."

That account is disputed by Swift boat veteran John O'Neill, author of "Unfit for Command," who maintains in his book that the statement "is simply false. There was little or no fire."

Villagers say this is what they saw: "Firing from over here. Firing from over there. Firing from the boat," Vo Thi Vi told Nightline.

She was only a couple hundred yards away when a Swift boat turned and approached the shore, she said, adding that the boat was unleashing a barrage of gunfire as it approached.

"I ran," she recalled, "Running fast. … And the Americans came from down there, yelling 'Attack, Attack!' And we ran."

Her husband Tam said the man who fired the B-40 rocket was hit in this barrage of gunfire. Then, he said, "he ran about 18 meters before he died, falling dead."Little or no fire, eh? What a pathetic bunch of liars those Swifties are. Caught again.

Source (http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Vote2004/story?id=166434&page=1)

[RedskinsDave]

I'm amazed that 30 years later the villagers can remember exactly what swift boat was fired on.

[akhhorus]

I'm amazed that 30 years later the villagers can remember exactly what swift boat was fired on.

not much goes on in your average Vietnamese farming village, and that the war is probably still told like it was yesterday. They arent living in the MTV 15 second attention span culture like we do.

[thickskin]

no to mention the fact that rockets were exploding and soldiers were running around firing automatic weapons screaming attack attack. that's not at all memorable.

[Spence]

I'm amazed that 30 years later the villagers can remember exactly what swift boat was fired on.Of course, this is nonsense. The villager does not identify exactly which boat was being fired on. She mentions a lot of fire in and around the swift boats. So does every other villager questioned on the subject. The official account of the U.S. Navy [commies, all of 'em!] says the area was filled with gunfire. It is only the Swift Boat Liars for Bush who say there was "little or no" gunfire. The woman does not have to recall exactly which boat was fired upon. All she has to do is recall that there was a lot of firing going on. That alone completely contradicts the story being told by the Swift Boat Liars for Bush and supports the official version of the U.S. Navy.

[RedskinsDave]

They said there was little or no fire in that instance. They don't say there was little or no fire at all. Luckily Kerry was only there for a short time so the guys he served with don't have too many months to remember.

[Spence]

Dave, the Swifties contend there was "little or no fire" in the encounter for which Kerry got his silver medal. That's the entire basis for their argument that he didn't deserve the medal, that there was "little or no fire" and therefore his actions could not have been heroic enough to merit a medal. The Navy says differently. John Kerry's boatmates say differently. The Vietnamese villagers who were witness to the battle say differently.

If you prefer to believe the story of a few guys who are all Republicans [though some have no recanted their story] and are bankrolled by a Texas Republican closely allied to Karl Rove and George W. Bush, that is, of course, your right. I'll go with the Navy, John Kerry's boatmates and the Vietnamese villagers who witnessed the battle.

[Spence]

Let's remember that these Swifties even accuse Kerry of wounding himself to get out of combat. No proof, of course, but who needs something like that? We've walked down a very dangerous path when decorated veterans can be treated like dirt. It began when Bush did this to McCain in 2000, accusing Arizona John of being a Manchurian candidate who had been brainwashed by the North Vietnamese while a POW and sent back to America to run for President and make the country communist. They also accused his wife of various disgusting things I won't repeat here. In addition, they accused McCain of fathering an Asian child with a prostitute. [McCain and his wife have an adopted Asian daughter.]

In 2002, Max Cleland, a triple-amputee and Vietnam vet was accused of supporting Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden. Now these Swifties come out of nowhere, bankrolled by a rich Texas GOP ally of the White House, and do the same to Kerry. I was speaking to an aid to Senator Chuck Hagel [R-Nebraska] who is a decorated Vietnam vet and is leaning towards running for the Republican nomination for President in 2008. This aid told me Hagel's biggest concern is not what sort of Democratic opposition he'll face, but what sort of muck will be thrown at him in the Republican primaries by Jeb Bush and Bill Frist. [Frist is the GOP Senate majority leader who intends to step down in 2006 and run for Prez in 2008. It is widely believed that Karl Rove, architect of the attacks on McCain, Cleland, and Kerry, will be managing Frist's presidential campaign. It was Rove who backed Frist's bid for Senate leadership after Trent Lott destroyed himself with those comments about Strom Thurmond and segregation.]

I guess we can go this way as a country, but is it really a good idea? No one is saying you can't run against vets--of course you can. But to accuse them, with no evidence, of being traitors and cowards, is a new low in this country's political culture. Whether it is being practiced against Republicans or Democats, I find it very troubling. I hope I'm not alone.

[NamVet4]

Veterans, Blacks, Native Americans, Hispanic, elderly, homosexuals, etc., it doesn't matter what affiliation or label people attach to you. When a group of bigoted people seek to further their own misguided aims at the expense of a specified groups it is a travesty. And there is a greater shame when these callous, libelous and slanderous actions are directed at Veterans! These are men and women who served our Country. As for the Swift Boat Veterans, if they have a legitimate belief and opposite point of view supported by the facts, fine! But so far all I have seen has been disproved as, at best, inaccurate, at worst, out right falsification. And shame on the Swift Boat Veterans if they are letting themselves be used by political, lowlife operatives. They are no better than the lowlife’s who are manipulating them.
I had hoped that this whole service issue would be put in perspective since the larger picture of the economy, education, social issues and foreign relations, including the war in Iraq, should be the focus for this election.
~sigh ~ pathetic . . . :(

[lakewinola]

I had hoped that this whole service issue would be put in perspective since the larger picture of the economy, education, social issues and foreign relations, including the war in Iraq, should be the focus for this election.
~sigh ~ pathetic . . . :(

You think W can actually talk about these issues? He must repeatedly bring out this crap because there is no other way he can win, but to lie to the american people.

[padraic]

You think W can actually talk about these issues? He must repeatedly bring out this crap because there is no other way he can win, but to lie to the american people.


I know W will not stop talking about the swift boat ads you are so on top of things. I love the fact that he is paying for the ads out of his own pocket.

[lakewinola]

I know W will not stop talking about the swift boat ads you are so on top of things. I love the fact that he is paying for the ads out of his own pocket.

You don't understand how the W machine works, the swifties are a direct result of his underhanded political machine.

[padraic]

You don't understand how the W machine works, the swifties are a direct result of his underhanded political machine.


" Lake wake up it's time to go to school"