Is Abortion Increasing?

[Spence]

This is from Sojourners, a Christian magazine which is pro-life on the abortion issue, but liberal in most other ways.Abortion was decreasing. When President Bush took office, the nation's abortion rates were at a 24-year low, after a 17.4% decline during the 1990s. This was an average decrease of 1.7% per year, mostly during the latter part of the decade. (This data comes from Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life using the Guttmacher Institute's studies).

Enter George W. Bush in 2001. One would expect the abortion rate to continue its consistent course downward, if not plunge. Instead, the opposite happened.

I found three states that have posted multi-year statistics through 2003, and abortion rates have risen in all three: Kentucky's increased by 3.2% from 2000 to 2003. Michigan's increased by 11.3% from 2000 to 2003. Pennsylvania's increased by 1.9% from 1999 to 2002. I found 13 additional states that reported statistics for 2001 and 2002. Eight states saw an increase in abortion rates (14.6% average increase), and five saw a decrease (4.3% average decrease).

Under President Bush, the decade-long trend of declining abortion rates appears to have reversed. Given the trends of the 1990s, 52,000 more abortions occurred in the United States in 2002 than would have been expected before this change of direction.

How could this be? I see three contributing factors:

First, two thirds of women who abort say they cannot afford a child (Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life Web site). In the past three years, unemployment rates increased half again. Not since Hoover had there been a net loss of jobs during a presidency until the current administration. Average real incomes decreased, and for seven years the minimum wage has not been raised to match inflation. With less income, many prospective mothers fear another mouth to feed.

Second, half of all women who abort say they do not have a reliable mate (Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life). Men who are jobless usually do not marry. Only three of the 16 states had more marriages in 2002 than in 2001, and in those states abortion rates decreased. In the 16 states overall, there were 16,392 fewer marriages than the year before, and 7,869 more abortions. As male unemployment increases, marriages fall and abortion rises.

Third, women worry about health care for themselves and their children. Since 5.2 million more people have no health insurance now than before this presidency - with women of childbearing age overrepresented in those 5.2 million - abortion increases.

The U.S. Catholic Bishops warned of this likely outcome if support for families with children was cut back. My wife and I know - as does my son David - that doctors, nurses, hospitals, medical insurance, special schooling, and parental employment are crucial for a special child. David attended the Kentucky School for the Blind, as well as several schools for children with cerebral palsy and other disabilities. He was mainstreamed in public schools as well. We have two other sons and five grandchildren, and we know that every mother, father, and child needs public and family support.

What does this tell us? Economic policy and abortion are not separate issues; they form one moral imperative. Rhetoric is hollow, mere tinkling brass, without health care, health insurance, jobs, child care, and a living wage. Pro-life in deed, not merely in word, means we need policies that provide jobs and health insurance and support for prospective mothers.Source (http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=sojomail.display&issue=041013#5)

[Minnesota Mike]

Second, half of all women who abort say they do not have a reliable mate (Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life). Men who are jobless usually do not marry. Only three of the 16 states had more marriages in 2002 than in 2001, and in those states abortion rates decreased. In the 16 states overall, there were 16,392 fewer marriages than the year before, and 7,869 more abortions. As male unemployment increases, marriages fall and abortion rises.

So does this mean that simply eliminating the so called "Marriage Penalty" in the tax code isn't enough to make people want to run out and get hitched? You mean to say that there is more to it than that. It seems so much more simple in Bush's world.

[padraic]

That really stinks, its so cool when people have unprotected sex and get prego, cause all you have to do is roll down to the clinic and bango. I think more people are being carful cause they do not want there kids to get drafted and sent to fight in Bush's war.

[MrWiggles]

I'm sure abstinence programs have nothing to do with this. Teaching kids not to have sex until they are married couldn't possibly have anythign to do with unwanted pregnancies.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Yes, President Bush is responsible for an irressponsible woman getting pregnant in the first place. We should have seen that coming.

[Minnesota Mike]

Yes, President Bush is responsible for an irressponsible woman getting pregnant in the first place. We should have seen that coming.

Sometimes there is an irresponsible man involved too.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Sometimes there is an irresponsible man involved too.

That's Bush's fault too I suppose.

[IowaSkinsFan]

This is from Sojourners, a Christian magazine which is pro-life on the abortion issue, but liberal in most other ways.Source (http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=sojomail.display&issue=041013#5)

I simply love your implication that it is Bush's fault these women/couples were forced to chose an alternative to a problem they created. You can definately tell the people polled were liberal's, blaming someone else for their troubles.

Here is a novel approach.....DON'T GET PREGNANT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

[Skinzaholic]

That's Bush's fault too I suppose.

Yes - it was the Presidents lack of sufficient job promotion which gave this man nothing to do but hang out on the street corner where he caught sight of the young lady - one thing led to another and bingo.

Lets impeach him.

[Spence]

Lets impeach him.At least we'd be impeaching someone for cause.

[Spence]

I simply love your implication that it is Bush's fault these women/couples were forced to chose an alternative to a problem they created. You can definately tell the people polled were liberal's, blaming someone else for their troubles.Jeebus, all I ever hear from conservatives is blaming other people for their problems. The right-wing controls the entire government and all they do is complain about how people with no power are always picking on them. I miss the days when conservatives had a bit of blood in them, not the limp gang of milksops we get today.

For the record, I didn't imply anything about Mr Bush or abortion. You inferred it. I put a question mark at the end of my title because I don't know the truth. What I do know is that Mr Bush's preferred big government solution, banning abortion, would fail to reduce abortions just as it has failed to do so in other countries where it is prohibited.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

I simply love your implication that it is Bush's fault these women/couples were forced to chose an alternative to a problem they created. You can definately tell the people polled were liberal's, blaming someone else for their troubles.

Here is a novel approach.....DON'T GET PREGNANT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Okay, I hardly ever post in this forum, but I really have to speak up here. I'm 18 years old, a high school student, and I can tell you stories about kids whose ages would probably make your head spin. I've seen more than enough to tell you that simply saying "Don't get pregnant in the first place" and washing your hands of the matter is ludicrous. There is no way, no way that kind of philosophy will ever work, and it will only serve to create a lot of bitter, poor young adults. Was their decision-making bad? In some cases, sure. But what about the couple who had been having safe sex for a year and the pill didn't work, or the condom broke? What about the woman who got raped? What about the couple who was going to have a child, then both got laid off in the span of two months? What about the woman whose man (I don't care if they're married or not) was called up to Iraq? Maybe, maybe they have a couple possible other options, but abortion is the best one. Even if it was just some woman who got drunk, had sex, and never saw the guy again, how is it going to help to tell her, "Tough, we can help you but we won't"?

[RedskinsDave]

Nice to see the Church wasn't able to convince you about that whole life inside the woman thing Joe.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Nice to see the Church wasn't able to convince you about that whole life inside the woman thing Joe.

I loathe the Catholic Church. But that's another subject for another thread.

[RedskinsDave]

All them darn rules I suppose. Most young people hate rules. I hated rules too.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

All them darn rules I suppose. Most young people hate rules. I hated rules too.

Well, that's a big part of it, yes. Huge in fact. But there's more than that. A lot more.

[akhhorus]

All them darn rules I suppose. Most young people hate rules. I hated rules too.

I would be careful discussing: "young people", "rules" and the Catholic Church in the same paragraph.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Your sig is disgustingly appropriate at the moment, Akh.

[akhhorus]

Your sig is disgustingly appropriate at the moment, Akh.

Should I be taking that as a compliment or a slam?

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Should I be taking that as a compliment or a slam?

Neither, I was just commenting.

[akhhorus]

Neither, I was just commenting.

Oh, ok.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Okay, I hardly ever post in this forum, but I really have to speak up here. I'm 18 years old, a high school student, and I can tell you stories about kids whose ages would probably make your head spin. I've seen more than enough to tell you that simply saying "Don't get pregnant in the first place" and washing your hands of the matter is ludicrous. There is no way, no way that kind of philosophy will ever work, and it will only serve to create a lot of bitter, poor young adults. Was their decision-making bad? In some cases, sure. But what about the couple who had been having safe sex for a year and the pill didn't work, or the condom broke? What about the woman who got raped? What about the couple who was going to have a child, then both got laid off in the span of two months? What about the woman whose man (I don't care if they're married or not) was called up to Iraq? Maybe, maybe they have a couple possible other options, but abortion is the best one. Even if it was just some woman who got drunk, had sex, and never saw the guy again, how is it going to help to tell her, "Tough, we can help you but we won't"?

Joe, I've been on the teenage and adult end of this sex spectrum and we are talking about two different perspectives here. From the political end, I don't think it is high schoolers, teenagers, who are being polled here who wind up saying they are getting an abortion because they don't have health insurance and don't have a job. That is an entirely different demographic altogether. I am not surprised that Spence is trying to turn this issue into a political one. He, like nearly all liberals, don't want to address the issue of these couples getting pregnant in the first place and their own personal responsibility. He would rather we ask "where did society fail them that they had to choose an abortion, or tax and spend to try to solve the problem. But since there is a Repulican in office, it must be his turn to take the heat.

Now, we all realize that as soon as Kerry gets in office, abortions will decrease, just like the other things that Kerry is going to put a hold on, just as long as you vote him in.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Joe, I've been on the teenage and adult end of this sex spectrum and we are talking about two different perspectives here. From the political end, I don't think it is high schoolers, teenagers, who are being polled here who wind up saying they are getting an abortion because they don't have health insurance and don't have a job. That is an entirely different demographic altogether. I am not surprised that Spence is trying to turn this issue into a political one. He, like nearly all liberals, don't want to address the issue of these couples getting pregnant in the first place and their own personal responsibility. He would rather we ask "where did society fail them that they had to choose an abortion, or tax and spend to try to solve the problem. But since there is a Repulican in office, it must be his turn to take the heat.

Now, we all realize that as soon as Kerry gets in office, abortions will decrease, just like the other things that Kerry is going to put a hold on, just as long as you vote him in.

There's some personal responsibility, of course. But I have a knee-jerk reaction to people who look at a couple that, in one way or another, has an unwanted pregnancy, and says, "Tough. Your fault. We could help you out, but we won't."

But, on a more political level, you're saying that the facts that there are more unemployed people and more abortions aren't at all related?

[IowaSkinsFan]

Jeebus, all I ever hear from conservatives is blaming other people for their problems. The right-wing controls the entire government and all they do is complain about how people with no power are always picking on them. I miss the days when conservatives had a bit of blood in them, not the limp gang of milksops we get today.

Jeebus?

For the record, I didn't imply anything about Mr Bush or abortion. You inferred it. I put a question mark at the end of my title because I don't know the truth. What I do know is that Mr Bush's preferred big government solution, banning abortion, would fail to reduce abortions just as it has failed to do so in other countries where it is prohibited.

Anyone, I mean anyone, who posts here with any degree of regularity would obviously see what you were getting to, question mark or no question mark.

If you worked just as hard as posting unflattering content about liberals as you do for conservatives, just maybe someone would believe the last half of that post. Your slant however, is so one sided, that only an imbecile would take you at your word on suggesting you didn't imply anything with this thread.

[IowaSkinsFan]

There's some personal responsibility, of course. But I have a knee-jerk reaction to people who look at a couple that, in one way or another, has an unwanted pregnancy, and says, "Tough. Your fault. We could help you out, but we won't."

But, on a more political level, you're saying that the facts that there are more unemployed people and more abortions aren't at all related?

Rape and incest not withstanding Joe, if you are going to take on the personal responsibility of engaging in the act of procreation and then be surprised when you turn up pregnant, precautions or not, you had better be prepared to deal with the consequences, and abortion is a chicken sh1t way to deal with it, but that is just my soap box and opinion only. Further more, to abort a life because you don't have a job and don't have health insurance will surely move you.........oh hell, move to strike that last part.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Rape and incest not withstanding Joe, if you are going to take on the personal responsibility of engaging in the act of procreation and then be surprised when you turn up pregnant, precautions or not, you had better be prepared to deal with the consequences, and abortion is a chicken sh1t way to deal with it, but that is just my soap box and opinion only. Further more, to abort a life because you don't have a job and don't have health insurance will surely move you.........oh hell, move to strike that last part.

:lol1:

I guess I'll stay out of the most politcal part of this. Look, ISF... there's a lot more to sex than "the act of procreation." I'll be man enough to say right now that, yes, I'm in high school, but I've had sex and will keep doing so. I've got a great girlfriend, we use double protection (condoms and the pill), and it a mature decision made after being together for several months. We're not "engaging in the act of procreation" because we're in no way trying to have a baby. We're having sex because we're in a strong relationship, and that is what your body tells you to do in strong relationships. If somehow she were to get pregnant, odds are she would have an early-stage abortion. If someone were to tell me, despite the fact that we were safe, despite the fact that neither of us is religious so we didn't feel like we were doing anything wrong, and despite the fact that we were simply... how should I put it... expressing our feelings to the utmost, that getting an abortion so we wouldn't have a baby that we wouldn't be ready for, able to provide for, or really even able to raise properly would be a chicken sh!t thing to do.... Well, let's just say that I'd be pretty damn angry.

[Spence]

Jeebus?A Homer-ism. [As in Homer Simpson.]

Anyone, I mean anyone, who posts here with any degree of regularity would obviously see what you were getting to, question mark or no question mark.They should not in this case. The question mark was put there very deliberately. I can't believe anyone knows why abortions increase or decrease nor do I think anyone actually knows the true number of abortions in this country. The number of them change for a variety of reasons, varying from social mores to economic conditions. Measuring which variable matters more at any particular time is so problematic as to be impossible. My point is that a common refrain of righties--that electing anti-choice politicians will lead to a dramatic decrease in abortions is a fantasy. Those at the top understand this, but find the fantasy a convenient way to motivate their grassroots.

If you worked just as hard as posting unflattering content about liberals as you do for conservatives, just maybe someone would believe the last half of that post. Your slant however, is so one sided, that only an imbecile would take you at your word on suggesting you didn't imply anything with this thread.Believe whatever you like, Robert. I've never lied in here and I don't think I need to defend my intellectual honesty to you or anyone else.

[dukeuch]

Rape and incest not withstanding Joe, if you are going to take on the personal responsibility of engaging in the act of procreation and then be surprised when you turn up pregnant, precautions or not, you had better be prepared to deal with the consequences, and abortion is a chicken sh1t way to deal with it, but that is just my soap box and opinion only. Further more, to abort a life because you don't have a job and don't have health insurance will surely move you.........oh hell, move to strike that last part.

So what, you think abortion is ok for the cases of rape and incest? If so, why are you against it in other cases?

[Jimreaper007]

It means more workers for the conservative "labor" camps

[DPHoo]

What does this tell us? Economic policy and abortion are not separate issues; they form one moral imperative. Rhetoric is hollow, mere tinkling brass, without health care, health insurance, jobs, child care, and a living wage. Pro-life in deed, not merely in word, means we need policies that provide jobs and health insurance and support for prospective mothers.

This post and information seems to be an indictment of President Bush but I am reminded of the following:

1) We have seen strains on our economy since 1998. I remember buying gas for $.89 in October of 98 and by the end of 2000 gas prices were at $1.20 this was a major hit to the economy and prices have been going up ever since. We need alternative choices for gas usuage and cheaper oil prices.

2) The boom of the 1990's that Pres. Clinton supporters often site was the result of a tech bubble that burst that probably contributed to the increased uninsured rates.

3) The stock market increase of the 1990's that Pres. Clinton supporters often site was a result of corporate accounting fraud that inflated stock prices that probably contributed to the increased uninsured rates.

4) We were in a recession in 2000 that probably contributed to the increased uninsured rates.

5) We lost ONE MILLION JOBS after the attack on 9/11 that probably contributed to the increased uninsured rates.

6) We need Tort reform to keep premiums and doctor's risk minimized but lawyers have tremendous sway in Washington.

7) I wonder how many lives of would be doctors, nurses, scientist or great citizen's were discontinued today in the abortion offices of our land. What does it say about our country? Can all life be respected if not all lives are respected?

8) Who pays the price for abortion? The mother and child. Men get off scott free therefore abortion is the biggest deception men have pulled over women in history. It fosters an attitude of "here is some money go take care of the problem". Who is responsible? Men, who want to have their fun and run.

Here is a vote for George W. Bush.

President Clinton precided over an age that will go down in history as "a whole lot to do about nothing" but he was the media's darling.

[3CardMonte]

Joe

So if a couple can kill their unborn baby in say month 6 because they both lost their jobs and thats ok. Maybe we should excuse that couple that kills their 2 yr old because they cant afford him anymore because they lost their jobs. Because its all GW Bush's fault either way. Right.

3Card

[Jimreaper007]

That was a pretty interesting posting....

Allow me to respond in kind DPHoo:

1. Bush is an Oil man. How likely is it that he will back alternative fuel research? About as likely as I am to grow a third eye. The republicans have had control of the house and senate since Newt G. and there has been zero progress on alternative fuels. I am sure in GOP Land that would be the fault of Bill Clinton's Penis. While Bush has fooled everyone into thinking Iraq was not about the oil, I am not buying it.

2. I like millions of other Americans watched the debates and in none of the debates did I hear about GW Bush's healthcare plan. Keep in mind Bush has had majorites in both the house and senate for the past four years and we have no plan. Instead of introducing a plan of his own, he just chose to tell millions without healthcare how Kerry's plan will not work. Can anybody tell me what the GW healthcare plan is? Oh, I get it...it is the WMD Plan. We cannot see it yet.

3. Stock Markets: To blame the Clinton administration for fraud with regard to the stock market is the funniest thing I read in your post. Two words...Halliburton and Enron. It was good to see GW come down hard on all those white collar business crooks at ENRON. 9-11 only exposed a lot of crooked big business dealings that could no longer hide due to the market collapse after 9-11. Of course ENRON helped set this country's energy policy with Dick Cheney. Despite the crap ENRON pulled, Bush did not step in to stop payments that are still going to the thieves at ENRON. To blame that on Clinton is an incredible reach only possible by the far right. I would go into Halliburton but that is so crooked that it speaks for itself.

4. If you are a republican I am sure the Recession is Clinton's fault. Matter of Perspective. Everything is Clinton's fault. The bottom line was Clinton was president during the best economy in the history of the United States. GW Bush is the 1st president to lose more jobs than he has created. I guess that is the fault of the Clinton Penis again.

5. Job Creation: President Bush might have been able to create more jobs if he did not start a war in Iraq and waste all that money looking for the mystery WMDs. He was doing alright in Afghanistan until he decided to hang a right and proceed to make the biggest military blunder in modern warfare. Now we occupy a country that is "bitter and hostile". GW Bush Sr. said that in his book on why he did not invade Iraq. Maybe son should have listened to dad? I think the $200 Billion spent in Iraq would have gone a long way into creating jobs back here in the states. Of course that tax cut for the rich was supposed to stimulate the economy, help small business owners and create jobs, but that did nmot happen. Maybe I should label that the WMD JOB PLAN.

6. Tort Reform: Most of us agree with tort reform, but Big-Business Bush wants to use it to give companies, doctors etc. a free pass to provide minimal/poor service without fear of being held accountable. Tort reform need to take place, but it should not take away the ability of the little guy to hold big business accountable. Rich Republicans want nothing more than a world where they have caps on litigation. They would gladly pay you 200K to settle out when they robbed you of your life.

7. Abortions and Killing: I wonder how many lives were snuffed out in Iraq by a smart bomb or whatever else. 1000 dead Americans, 10,000 Wounded and 20,000 dead Iraq civilians. Since Einstein was not American I wonder how many of those 20,000 Iraqi citizens we killed to give freedom might have been the next Einstein or Ghandi? If the BUsh administration wants to respect life....how about getting out of Iraq and letting Iraqis decide for themselves what they want to do. That is called freedom in most circles.

8. To blame men for abortions is nuts. Newsflash their are these things called contraceptives that women do not need the permission of a man to use. If a woman has sex with a man without protecting herself then who's fault is that? Instead of blaming men for all the woes of the woman, how about women make better choices about who they decide to sleep with.

Your opinions are certainly respected here DPH00

I just wanted to introduce you to the dark side...The Clinton presidency even with the Lewsinsky episode far outshines anything Both Bush's have done. The fact is the Country was in much better shape under Clinton.

I am glad you are voting!