U.S. Platoon Defies Orders, Refuses "Suicide Mission"

[Spence]

A 17-member Army Reserve platoon with troops from Jackson and around the Southeast deployed to Iraq is under arrest for refusing a "suicide mission" to deliver fuel, the troops' relatives said Thursday.

The soldiers refused an order on Wednesday to go to Taji, Iraq — north of Baghdad — because their vehicles were considered "deadlined" or extremely unsafe, said Patricia McCook of Jackson, wife of Sgt. Larry O. McCook.

Sgt. McCook, a deputy at the Hinds County Detention Center, and the 16 other members of the 343rd Quartermaster Company from Rock Hill, S.C., were read their rights and moved from the military barracks into tents, Patricia McCook said her husband told her during a panicked phone call about 5 a.m. Thursday.
The platoon could be charged with the willful disobeying of orders, punishable by dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of pay and up to five years confinement, said military law expert Mark Stevens, an associate professor of justice studies at Wesleyan College in Rocky Mount, N.C.
...
U.S. Rep. Bennie Thompson said he plans to submit a congressional inquiry today on behalf of the Mississippi soldiers to launch an investigation into whether they are being treated improperly.

"I would not want any member of the military to be put in a dangerous situation ill-equipped," said Thompson, who was contacted by families. "I have had similar complaints from military families about vehicles that weren't armor-plated, or bullet-proof vests that are outdated. It concerns me because we made over $150 billion in funds available to equip our forces in Iraq.

"President Bush takes the position that the troops are well-armed, but if this situation is true, it calls into question how honest he has been with the country," Thompson said.
...
"I got a call from an officer in another unit early (Thursday) morning who told me that my husband and his platoon had been arrested on a bogus charge because they refused to go on a suicide mission," said Jackie Butler of Jackson, wife of Sgt. Michael Butler, a 24-year reservist. "When my husband refuses to follow an order, it has to be something major."

The platoon being held has troops from Alabama, Kentucky, North Carolina, Mississippi and South Carolina, said Teresa Hill of Dothan, Ala., whose daughter Amber McClenny is among those being detained.

McClenny, 21, pleaded for help in a message left on her mother's answering machine early Thursday morning.

"They are holding us against our will," McClenny said. "We are now prisoners."

McClenny told her mother her unit tried to deliver fuel to another base in Iraq Wednesday, but was sent back because the fuel had been contaminated with water. The platoon returned to its base, where it was told to take the fuel to another base, McClenny told her mother.

The platoon is normally escorted by armed Humvees and helicopters, but did not have that support Wednesday, McClenny told her mother.

The convoy trucks the platoon was driving had experienced problems in the past and were not being properly maintained, Hill said her daughter told her.

The situation mirrors other tales of troops being sent on missions without proper equipment.

Aviation regiments have complained of being forced to fly dangerous missions over Iraq with outdated night-vision goggles and old missile-avoidance systems. Stories of troops' families purchasing body armor because the military didn't provide them with adequate equipment have been included in recent presidential debates.

Patricia McCook said her husband, a staff sergeant, understands well the severity of disobeying orders. But he did not feel comfortable taking his soldiers on another trip.

"He told me that three of the vehicles they were to use were deadlines ... not safe to go in a hotbed like that," Patricia McCook said.

Hill said the trucks her daughter's unit was driving could not top 40 mph.

"They knew there was a 99 percent chance they were going to get ambushed or fired at," Hill said her daughter told her. "They would have had no way to fight back."Source (http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041015/NEWS01/410150366/1002)

[akhhorus]

What do you expect, some of the troops are from South Carolina! They'd refuse to cross the street.

[Jimreaper007]

If those vehicles were indeed deadlined then it is the duty of the Platoon's chain of command to inform the higher ups of the status of their equipment. A combat leader is supposed to perform an equipment check on his/her soldiers before every mission.


We call them ACE Reports:
Ammo --What you have on your person.....
Canteens -- How much water you have...really important in Iraq
Equipment -- Is all of your equipment functional to include vehicles/weapons

No mission should EVER be authorized with deadline vehicles. With that said there are a number of reasons why a vehicle can be deadlined.

1. Engine/transmission troubles
2. No fire extinguisher
3. Non functioning weapons
4. Non funtioning regular and tactical lights


The rules were when I was there that any vehicle that could not do over 40mph was required to have an escort to leave the safe zone.

I am not sure how much has changed since I was there, but in a slow moving vehicle like a fuel/water truck I would not leave unless I had an escort and I certainly would not send my men anywhere.

From what I have read, the platoon leader was right not to accept that mission.

It would a super stupid idea to send a FUEL TRUCK anywhere without an escort.

I will try to get more detail about this...

[lakewinola]

These guy hate freedom. There is no trouble in Iraq, the liberal media has made all of this Iraq is Messopotamia up, I know this because W and Cheney told me that everything was good in the land of Iraq. For these guys to suggest that the country is far from secure is borderline treason.

[Jimreaper007]

They must like living a lot though.....

[NamVet4]

A whole unit refusing to go on a mission in a war zone would be a significant breach of military discipline. A statement from the military’s press center in Baghdad called the incident “isolated.”

“The investigating team is currently in Tallil taking statements and interviewing those involved. This is an isolated incident and it is far too early in the investigation to speculate as to what happened, why it happened or any action that might be taken,” the coalition press information center said in the statement, sent to the Associated Press in Washington.



In the statement, U.S. military officials said the commanding general of the 13th Corps Support Command had appointed his deputy commander to investigate the incident.

The statement did not confirm several aspects of the relatives’ stories, including the number of soldiers involved and the reason they refused the mission.



Source : MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6255918/)

[Spence]

Good update. Thanks, Andrew.

[Jimskin]

Source : MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6255918/)
Another isolated incident....another isolated indcident....another isolated incident.

[PyroGenic]

it seems a little bit too rampant to be isolated.... whats going on over there? people are going to needlessly die because they're driving fuel trucks without escorts... fuel trucks!!... that'd be the first thing I'd shoot if i were an enemy :rolleyes:

[thickskin]

if the southern kids refused it, it was a bullshit order.

[Skinzaholic]

In some round about way - this will be pinned on the President as well. He is a rebel without a cause as we all know.

[Jimreaper007]

This was a reserve group of soldiers meaning that they are older. They know a suicide mission when they see one....

Yeah...I'm gonna drive a truck loaded with fuel on the SAFE Streets of Iraq.


One of the basic tennants of leadership is never have a soldier do something that you would not or could not do.....

Whoever gave that convoy order should be brought up on charges

Or better yet maybe GW should lead that convoy so he can show the troops how to avoid RPG's and insurgents while driving a 5 ton fuel bomb at 40 mph.

GOOD LEADERS LEAD FROM THE FRONT

[Carmelo]

In some round about way - this will be pinned on the President as well. He is a rebel without a cause as we all know.
So if you're in charge of something, it shouldn't be your fault when something goes wrong? Skinz, the problem I have here is lack of accountability. Tell me, what exactly has been bush's fault? What are you willing to pin on him? When asked to name three mistakes during his administration he started talking about Iraq. No one asked him about Iraq, but the first thing he said was Iraq wasn't a mistake. Is that a guilty conscience? The question wasn't, "was Iraq a mistake?" All he had to do was name ANYTHING. So, my problem is a lack of accountability. What is his fault? What can we blame on him? From the way you guys tell it, Iraq wasn't his fault, the loss of jobs aren't his fault, and the deficit isn't his fault. So tell me, what is his fault? Which of the many mistakes made during this administration was his fault? I could have sworn that in a leadership position, anything that happens on your watch, you take responsibility for. Even if you didn't do it, you're at the top of the chain and you take responsibilty because you set the standard. That's why some football coaches get fired for dropped passes and fumbles. Can you honestly tell me that if any other influential world leader would have commited war crimes with the whole abu prison thing, they wouldn't have been held responsible? When has, "I didn't know" been a valid excuse for a leader? Now you'll go and say that he didn't know and it wasn't his fault, but as president, is it just as bad to not know when war crimes are being commited under your presidency on such a large scale?

All I'm saying is that bush supporters refuse to admit fault in him despite the cluster of f***s he's gotten us into. Can anyone deny that Iraq is more dangerous now than when we invaded it?

So again, tell me, where do you find fault in Mr. Bush? I hear every bush supporter tell me they don't like Kerry's plans. Well, what exactly are bush's plans? I could have sworn he spent more time attacking Kerry's plans than telling us his own. His plans obviously aren't working but somehow they are good?

So I come to you, supporters of bush, and I give you an honest opportunity to convince me. You see, I get so angry listening to bush supporters. I feel like they can't really believe that stuff and somewhere along the line I realize that I actually have to look that blind to you as well. So I want to understand. I want to understand what his plans are and why he's better. There must be a ryhme to your reason so I'm all ears... Honestly. If you come with good argument I can be swayed. I really want to understand. So go for it. Don't waste your time with little buzzwords or catch phrases. Explain bush's plan and why it will work. Explain why he isn't responsible, as our leader, for the things that have gone terribly wrong.
I'd also recommend you explain all of these things to yourself as well.

As a side note I had a supporter of bush tell me the truth. It was ugly but looked better than blind devotion. He said he supported bush because he agreed with the war for oil and the thousands of lives were worth the cost of securing saddams oil. He said he wanted a leader that would take charge like that for resources with the 'take what you want' mentality. I'm not making this up or being sarcastic. As much as I cringed at his views, I like his honesty better than I like the blind devotion I see from others.

[Spence]

So if you're in charge of something, it shouldn't be your fault when something goes wrong? Skinz, the problem I have here is lack of accountability. Tell me, what exactly has been bush's fault? What are you willing to pin on him?This is exactly correct. Bush is the CInC. The entire Iraq fiasco is his responsibility. Hey, it was Bush [and Cheney and Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz and Feith] who said the U.S. didn't need that many troops in Iraq because there would be no armed opposition to the insurgency.

You really have to close your mind to the facts not to see the colossal failure of Mr Bush's policy and the blame he deserves for it. Bush is the CInC. You can't keep blaming things on Clinton's penis forever.

[akhhorus]

This is exactly correct. Bush is the CInC. The entire Iraq fiasco is his responsibility. Hey, it was Bush [and Cheney and Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz and Feith] who said the U.S. didn't need that many troops in Iraq because there would be no armed opposition to the insurgency.

You really have to close your mind to the facts not to see the colossal failure of Mr Bush's policy and the blame he deserves for it. Bush is the CInC. You can't keep blaming things on Clinton's penis forever.


Did you catch the Frontline on the election on thursday that said that on the night of 9/11, Wolfie and Rummy were pushing Bush to invade IRaq anyways because it would be easy and then they could think about invading Afghanistan and going after Osama? Wow.

[28thegreat]

The mission was ultimately carried out by other soldiers from the 343rd, which has at least 120 soldiers, the military said.

This may have seemed a suicide mission...but other soldiers performed the duty, assisted soldiers who probably needed the fuel...and as far as we know, performed it successfully. To me this seems like a particular shirking of duty. By refusing to perform, someone else was put in harms way, and maybe just maybe, even more would have suffered if the fuel was critical further down the line.

[Spence]

Did you catch the Frontline on the election on thursday that said that on the night of 9/11, Wolfie and Rummy were pushing Bush to invade IRaq anyways because it would be easy and then they could think about invading Afghanistan and going after Osama? Wow.Yeah, that is one of the most damning facts about the entire Bush presidency. Their plan to exploit 9/11/01 and use the tragedy to justify a radical foreign policy began before the dust from the towers had even begun to settle. The cynicism and mendacity of this administration is truly breath-taking.

[akhhorus]

Yeah, that is one of the most damning facts about the entire Bush presidency. Their plan to exploit 9/11/01 and use the tragedy to justify a radical foreign policy began before the dust from the towers had even begun to settle. The cynicism and mendacity of this administration is truly breath-taking.

I remember reading a white paper from Wolfie in 2000(when he was head of SAIS) talking about how the next President HAS to invade Iraq, Iran, Syria and North Korea ot rid the US of threats in the next 20 years.

[KingButz]

Did you catch the Frontline on the election on thursday that said that on the night of 9/11, Wolfie and Rummy were pushing Bush to invade IRaq anyways because it would be easy and then they could think about invading Afghanistan and going after Osama? Wow.

I didn't see this. Are you talking about all that PNAC stuff?

[akhhorus]

I didn't see this. Are you talking about all that PNAC stuff?

PNAC? This was came out earlier during Richard Clarke's testimony. But it's still interesting to hear.

[Spence]

PNAC is the Project for a New American Century. Ground zero for neocons. Kristol and the rest of his gang. They wrote an open letter in 1998 urging President Clinton to intervene militarily in Iraq. A number of future Bush admin members signed the letter, including Donald Rumsfeld.

[Jimreaper007]

I remember reading a white paper from Wolfie in 2000(when he was head of SAIS) talking about how the next President HAS to invade Iraq, Iran, Syria and North Korea ot rid the US of threats in the next 20 years.


JESUS!!!!!

Are you serious Akhhorus????

If Rummy did say this......we need to get that guy away from the Pentagon and into a retirement home asap.

This guy unchecked is gunning for WW III

[GibbsRules!]

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0610-08.htm
Some people argued the Pope should get acclaim for the external pressure that brought down the Soviet Union, but when asked by an interviewer, he responded "No, the Soviet Union was rotten from within, I, nor anyone else had anything to do with its demise."

[akhhorus]

JESUS!!!!!

Are you serious Akhhorus????

If Rummy did say this......we need to get that guy away from the Pentagon and into a retirement home asap.

This guy unchecked is gunning for WW III

yep, Wolfie was in charge of the Johns Hopkins School for Advanced International Study. And he wrote a ton of papers saying that we should invade Iraq(even for no reason) just to clear the boards.

[akhhorus]

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0610-08.htm
Some people argued the Pope should get acclaim for the external pressure that brought down the Soviet Union, but when asked by an interviewer, he responded "No, the Soviet Union was rotten from within, I, nor anyone else had anything to do with its demise."

well, according to Huntington's "Third Wave" it was the Vatican's Lateran Council in the 1960s which set the tempo for bringing down the Soviets. JPII(who had his myrmdions throw me out of the Vatican for no real reason) certainly helped do this.

[SkinsGuru]

JESUS!!!!!

Are you serious Akhhorus????

If Rummy did say this......we need to get that guy away from the Pentagon and into a retirement home asap.

This guy unchecked is gunning for WW III

Maybe he already helped start WW III.

[Jimreaper007]

Maybe he already helped start WW III.


Rumsfeld is an old, scary dude....

This country could use a little more balance because right now the hawks are steering us toward oblivion. Which of course means more business for the Reaper.

[NamVet4]

‘Too early’ to discuss discipline for errant unit,
military says Reservists' kin say Iraq unit's concerns ignored

The U.S. military said Monday no decision had been made on whether to discipline Army reservists who refused a supply mission last week, despite statements from their relatives that the soldiers would be discharged.


Source : MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6255918/)

[NamVet4]

Company Commander of Unit in Iraq That Refused to Deliver Convoy Relieved of Duty

Courtesy ABC News: Source (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=184407)

[Booser]

The mission was ultimately carried out by other soldiers from the 343rd, which has at least 120 soldiers, the military said.

This may have seemed a suicide mission...but other soldiers performed the duty, assisted soldiers who probably needed the fuel...and as far as we know, performed it successfully. To me this seems like a particular shirking of duty. By refusing to perform, someone else was put in harms way, and maybe just maybe, even more would have suffered if the fuel was critical further down the line.


good post - no one seems to be thinking of the soldiers that didn't get their supplies because these guys refused the mission. what kind of danger did that put them in? it sucks, but to talk about "too dangererous" in a war is a little bit silly.

take it a step farther. a machine gun nest has a unit pinned down - the ranking officer or senior NCO has to decide who is going to go and take out the nest. that could well be considered a suicide mission. is it OK for a soldier to refuse to do it because it is too dangerous?

These kind of situations are the reason why a chain of command is set up and adhered to so strictly.

the decision makers on a tactical level often do not know the ramifications of NOT accomplishing their objective.

look at it this way - i fly KC-10s, a tanker, and no one knows more about taking a fuel bomb into harms way (we carry up to 360,000 lbs of gas). our aricraft was not designed with countermeasures - no flares, no chaff, no threat avoidance system. still, we have been flying over baghdad since the first night of the war. this is not heroism, this is our job. if i decide that a mission is too risky and refuse to fly it, then a fighter/bomber somewhere doesn't get gas and they have to go back home, and the guys they were supporting on the ground (probably a convoy like the one in question) have no air cover. maybe, just maybe, because i did not accomplish my mission there will be casualties on the ground - but i wouldn't know that.

now, all that being said, a soldier always has the right to refuse an unlawful order. on the surface, though, this does not seem like one of those times.

[Jimreaper007]

Agreed Booser

You make a strong case. The only problem I have with the whole situation is the fact that after over a year in Iraq we have not secured this country to the point where we can drive our 5 ton fuel bombs around with minimal protection.

That violates rule 1 of land warfare which is Secure the area.

Yes you do fly a KC-10 filled to the brim with JP-5 or whatever it is now, but the Iraqi Air Force consists of two hot wheels planes and a weather balloon. The odds for you guys are drastically different from the guys on the ground where nothing has been secured (except the oil fields).

IMO: That is the clearest sign that the current plan puts our troops at unecessary risk. Yes war is a risky business, but I was also trained not to do anything monumentally stupid to put my troopers in harms way. I think that theory needs to start at the very top.

Side Question: KC-10's have no countermeasures? WOW! That sucks! But I guess carry anything that could ignite (360,000 lbs of JP5) would be a genuinely stupid idea.

[Booser]

you are right about that - those guys on the ground are in harms way a lot more than we are.


the kc10 was an off the shelf buy, baisically a dc10 with extra tanks and a boom. we dont even carry parachutes, because the chances of us surviving a mishap are fairly low (although the sioux city, iowa crash was a dc10). we'll go out with a bang!

[Jimreaper007]

Damn Booser --- I will buy you TWO Drinks next time I am up at McGuire.

You will definitely go out with a bang.....more like a small nuke.

you could always go Army???? (You should see the sh*t eating grin on my face)


I know you're way smarter than that

LOL

[3CardMonte]

The mission that the soldiers refused was carried out by other members of their own unit without incident. Glad they were in the 1% chance of survival.

3Card

[Booser]

you could always go Army???? (You should see the sh*t eating grin on my face)
I know you're way smarter than that
LOL

well, i would, but i'd miss out on those "cool" new blue and grey BDUs... have you seen them? ugh...

[Jimreaper007]

I saw them.........not good

The evolution of the uniforms continue....