What can be done in the passing attack - No Bashing Please!

[bgforever]

Starting with the little things-I think a team struggling in passing, can do something to get it off the ground.

1. Receivers can focus on "the catch" and worry about the hit later - You WILL get hit. If that's not the problem, then make the catch (secure the ball, as they say), and then attempt the RAC yardage(more likely what it is).

2. When running the routes continue to run the patterns as though each inch is important to run exactly, this helps the rest of the offense stay steady in its game. Never know, when you turn your head, the ball is right there. It also helps the coach set up for what the defense is doing. Chaos doesnt really tell him anything. Its a team sport and every play shows something he needs to do with making it work for all 11 guys.

3. Talk to the Qb about the tiny little things a defender keeps doing and the QB and Coach may figure out those "just off your fingertips or pass is too far behind or high" problems. It isn't one thing when a defender isn't even determing the outcome between the QB and Receiver and they still keep missing. Communication is paramount, if the QB is too bull headed, then the players are no longer participating in the team needs. Internal issues develop and the defensive team can smell it, thus overwhelming the passing game, because you help them with the lack of communication.

4. Don't slow down and find a soft spot so the Qb can unload qucker, even coming back very fast on play breakdowns. The hesitation is about 2 seconds, the defenders only needs 1.

[openallnight]

Run "3 man cluster" routes.
1st receiver runs crossing pattern about 10 yards
2nd receiver trails 1st by 5 yards
3rd receiver runs same crossing pattern at about 15 yards
Tell qb to throw to the 1st receiver. The ball will either be behind, directly to the 2nd receiver, or high, directly to the 3rd receiver.

[NamVet4]

Starting with the little things-I think a team struggling in passing, can do something to get it off the ground.


3. Talk to the Qb about the tiny little things a defender keeps doing and the QB and Coach may figure out those "just off your fingertips or pass is too far behind or high" problems. It isn't one thing when a defender isn't even determing the outcome between the QB and Receiver and they still keep missing. Communication is paramount, if the QB is too bull headed, then the players are no longer participating in the team needs. Internal issues develop and the defensive team can smell it, thus overwhelming the passing game, because you help them with the lack of communication.


bgforever I agree!!
This is an area that I don't see happening on our Beloved Team! Many times, watching other games, I see the QB's and WR's talking on the sidelines . . . Now they may be chatting about their latest ride, the best place to eat, or even the game! But they are talking . . .

[tbfoster1]

get back to the basics
more communication between the qb and recievers
recievers work more with the catching machine at or after practice (the one that seemed to help gardner)
set up a tire swing in brunells back yard

[flave1969]

Utilise more receivers. The Tight Ends and H-Backs have combined for just 20 passes for 199 yards. If we are going to play a shorter more controlled passing game lets use these guys, especially the H-Backs. We have got to make opposing D's think about all players not just the wideouts and Portis. All these guys can catch and combined they are averaging nearly 10 yards a pass. A lot of teams have Tight Ends with forty plus catches. Whilst none of ours are quite that good, having them catch that number combined would help spread the field a lot. This could work because Clinton Portis is showing us he is also a decent blocker, leave him into block on some plays and send out Cooley, Royal, Sellers and Koslowski.

Lets make the other teams think.

[SkinsKY]

Build rapport between QBs and WRs (make them go out for dinner).
Throw to TEs more
Get Portis more passes.
Make at three reads before you throw every pass.

[Axegrinder]

Build rapport between QBs and WRs (make them go out for dinner).
Throw to TEs more
Get Portis more passes.
Make at three reads before you throw every pass.
Good Idea.
I second this motion!

[IowaSkinsFan]

I personally think that major problems in the passing game are related to Brunell's arm strength. He cannot throw certain routes and DB's know that, so they sit on the remaining routes. That's why our receivers have such a tough time getting separation from DB's.

[akhhorus]

As much as I hate to say anything good about Mark Brunell, but he has been victim of a lot of drops this year. Thats not to say that he doesnt share in any of the blame for them, but the recievers and TEs have been dropping balls left and right.

[RedskinRyan]

i dont see any chemistry between brunell and the receivers. what happens in indy? i dont think you will see peyton on camera w/o marvin harrison a few feet behind him(i'll bet marvin even went to peyton's honeymoon). here? brunell just stands on the sideline. now that doesnt mean he has to do it all, the receivers could go over to him.

[smoak]

i dont see any chemistry between brunell and the receivers. what happens in indy? i dont think you will see peyton on camera w/o marvin harrison a few feet behind him(i'll bet marvin even went to peyton's honeymoon). here? brunell just stands on the sideline. now that doesnt mean he has to do it all, the receivers could go over to him.

look how long manning and harrison have been together though... it'll come together for us.

[chrisbcbu]

If our offense can pick up a first down on 3rd down we would be almost unbeatable. Any time we get in a 3rd down situation(whether it be 3rd and 1 or 3rd and 25) i just shutter because i know we wont pick it up.

[colkurtz]

As much as I hate to say anything good about Mark Brunell, but he has been victim of a lot of drops this year. Thats not to say that he doesnt share in any of the blame for them, but the recievers and TEs have been dropping balls left and right.\

Yes, that has been very disappointing. However, many of Brunnell's passes are very high or behind the receiver.

Brunnell needs to do better reads of his receivers . He often has someone open and then dumps it into the stands.

unfortunately, the OL is not good enough to allow the TB or TE to provide good dumpoffs - they're blocking the ones Chris Samuels lets through.

[TertiaryView]

Trust, you need trust in the thrower and in the receiver, without it there are no consistent completions. One thing is for sure, with our schedule as it is, we will need all parts of the team working as if every game is a play off game to have a chance even at the 8-8 goal. Of course, December 26 is to some more important than making the play offs, and I in my humble opinion, I tend to agree. We need that as a victory for our moral well being, we need that to stand tall.

Look at it from a different point of view: If we are holding back any reserves, surprises, or hidden tactics, now is the time to bring them all out. Going for it on 4th down even when questionable is making a courageous and confident statement, and bringing out all those genius plays that the 200 odd years of experience we have as a cumulative acumen from the coaches is a strategic imperative for every game left. If you are going to talk the talk, you have to walk the walk.

[tommahawk]

Where is DMC. Last year it was never Coles or Gardner making the clutch receptions it was DMC. I would really like to see him at the #3 reciever.

[HAWGZHEAD]

I think it is due to Brunell's timing. You see the receivers open for a second or two but it seems like he misses those short opportunities, and maybe that stems from all the chemistry and just time spent together that alot of you are mentioning. Another thing is what I have been harping about in some of my other posts, and that is that Brunell needs to get his head on a swivel and look for the #2 and 3 receivers instead of staring down the primary target. I am not a football player but if I was I would love to be a CB playing against Brunell. Man I can't seem to stop bashing this guy but he drives me crazy.

[Jimreaper007]

I think it is due to Brunell's timing. You see the receivers open for a second or two but it seems like he misses those short opportunities, and maybe that stems from all the chemistry and just time spent together that alot of you are mentioning. Another thing is what I have been harping about in some of my other posts, and that is that Brunell needs to get his head on a swivel and look for the #2 and 3 receivers instead of staring down the primary target. I am not a football player but if I was I would love to be a CB playing against Brunell. Man I can't seem to stop bashing this guy but he drives me crazy.


Timing...

ok

I was of the thinking that his lack of arm strength for passes over 10 yards could be the problem.

[HAWGZHEAD]

lol.. very true.

[Jimreaper007]

lol.. very true.


Once upon a time....in a galaxy far, far away Mark Brunell could throw to all sides of the field even on the move.

That was called Brunell's prime or the happy time

Happy time gone now.....

Welcome to the I have to drink heavily just to make it through these performances times

:stout:

[LATrueRedskin]

Bunch formations, screen/dump offs to Portis, and basic fundamentals will get this passing game to work. The WR's are dropping way too many balls, which kills drives, and doesn't get our passing game off the ground the whole game. Keeping the defense off balance will also help. Our passing game is too predicable right now because they know we're not going to pass unless we have to.

[Jimreaper007]

Bunch formations, screen/dump offs to Portis, and basic fundamentals will get this passing game to work. The WR's are dropping way too many balls, which kills drives, and doesn't get our passing game off the ground the whole game. Keeping the defense off balance will also help. Our passing game is too predicable right now because they know we're not going to pass unless we have to.


Gibbs started the season with bunch formations....

Here's the problem...

If Brunell can't throw downfield, the bunch formations allow the defenses to concentrate the bulk of their players in the box to negate portis.

The other problem is that it makes it easier for teams to zone blitz when you have 8-9 guys in the box because they can come from anywhere.

All of this is due to the fact that Mr. brunell cannot go deep, therefore teams can man up on the WR's

Infact...gibbs went to 3 WR sets during the Chicago game to try and move at least one player out of the box. It has worked thus far.

[LATrueRedskin]

Gibbs started the season with bunch formations....

Here's the problem...

If Brunell can't throw downfield, the bunch formations allow the defenses to concentrate the bulk of their players in the box to negate portis.

The other problem is that it makes it easier for teams to zone blitz when you have 8-9 guys in the box because they can come from anywhere.

All of this is due to the fact that Mr. brunell cannot go deep, therefore teams can man up on the WR's

Infact...gibbs went to 3 WR sets during the Chicago game to try and move at least one player out of the box. It has worked thus far.

Gibbs didn't do it that much, and went away from it as soon as it didn't work. We all know Brunell doesn't have the huge cannon. Keep using the bunch formations, keep the routes relatively within his arm strength, and it'll work against a defense like the Bengals. You beat them with a couple of passes, they won't put 9 in the box.

[Jimreaper007]

Gibbs didn't do it that much, and went away from it as soon as it didn't work. We all know Brunell doesn't have the huge cannon. Keep using the bunch formations, keep the routes relatively within his arm strength, and it'll work against a defense like the Bengals. You beat them with a couple of passes, they won't put 9 in the box.


That is a big if with Mr. 58 Yards at the Helm

[superskin]

Utilise more receivers. The Tight Ends and H-Backs have combined for just 20 passes for 199 yards. If we are going to play a shorter more controlled passing game lets use these guys, especially the H-Backs. We have got to make opposing D's think about all players not just the wideouts and Portis. All these guys can catch and combined they are averaging nearly 10 yards a pass. A lot of teams have Tight Ends with forty plus catches. Whilst none of ours are quite that good, having them catch that number combined would help spread the field a lot. This could work because Clinton Portis is showing us he is also a decent blocker, leave him into block on some plays and send out Cooley, Royal, Sellers and Koslowski.

Lets make the other teams think.

Great point, Flave. Sometimes, getting the ball "downfield" isnt exclusive to Coles and company. Where are the seam routes to Cooley? Or Portis for that matter. We need to spread the ball around, so the Bungles dont know which way its coming at them. I feel really confident this will start happening on Sunday.

[HAWGZHEAD]

I think Gibbs needs to try Brunell in the bunch of time on the bench formation.

[Jimreaper007]

The fans in the stands have caught more Brunell passes that our Wr's

I think we are missing the fendemental point here....

it does not matter who the reciever is....He cannot get the ball to them.

The other problem is now everyone we play the Skins knows this too so they pack the middle of the field and wait for the passes to wobble by.

That is why Gibbs refused to throw the ball in the snd half of the Detroit game.

[Skinz4lyfe]

Mix up the types of passes. Throw some quick 5 yard outs and slants. Then run a couple of seam routes. We also need to use Cooley and Jacobs more. Why don't we get Portis in the passing game more as well? That play against GB was excellent (Portis TD) but if there was ever a play to sum up our season it was that play. Perfect play call, called back on a "phantom penalty" and then int right after that. Urgh!! Anyway, I say the key to the passing attack is variety. Spread the ball around and don't be scared to go deep (EXCEPT WHEN THEY'RE PLAYING A 2 DEEP ZONE)

[bgforever]

In the Dallas game, something clicked between Gardner and Brunell. This is my point. Something they were doing for a brief moment. It also happened in the Baltimore game for a series. Those things are golden in a passing game.

Whatever it was that Gardner did against Dallas, it involved his instincts, Brunell's timing and scan of the defense on the run. When he rolled out, it froze the defense's better half (safeties) and that is something Gardner somehow is able to take advantage of. His size also allows him to shield or go up for the pass, because Brunell has more leverage on his throw when he plants. His height disadvantage sometimes shows against lineman that are great leapers, so the rollout buys him time and neutralizes the rush up front.

On the pass to Coles in the Baltimore game, he sold a move and was in a 15 yard range, even though he got by Ray Lewis, you won't see Ray Lewis in Cincy, so this has got to be an area the receivers need to discuss with Brunell. They will help each other, in that, if you hit them on the run, both Gardner and Coles are dangerous receivers.

A skinny post off the hip of the tackle, bringing coverage inward and a longer post to Jacobs or Coles will also help (Gardner or Cooley could run the skinny post). These are passes in the 10 - 20 yard range with hope the receiver catches it on the run, angling downfield. This allows the passing game to maximize what use we do have of the QB, because he definitely sees a lot more than the other QB's we have, we just have make the most of what he can do.

[Jimskin]

The fans in the stands have caught more Brunell passes that our Wr's

I think we are missing the fendemental point here....

it does not matter who the reciever is....He cannot get the ball to them.

The other problem is now everyone we play the Skins knows this too so they pack the middle of the field and wait for the passes to wobble by.

That is why Gibbs refused to throw the ball in the snd half of the Detroit game.
I gotta agree on this one Jim....Unless we show some kind of passing attack were doomed!

[colkurtz]

Timing...

ok

I was of the thinking that his lack of arm strength for passes over 10 yards could be the problem.

I don't think it's lack of arm strength. He's thrown the ball downfield. It just rarely is anywhere close to the OPEN receiver. No long pass capability means the defense can move up to stop the short ones; stuff the running game, etc., etc.

You are exactly right - his timing is terrible. He is not reading the second or third receiver.


OBTW, love your location "DOWN BY THE RIVER" - ROFL. Did anyone get it yet?

[bgforever]

"In a van, down by the river"

Christopher Farley?

Oh forgot to mention, Cincy's got the 11th spot against the pass, so they are very likely to max coverage, and use "base" defense, showing cofidence against our short passing and try to stop mainly Portis. Betts doesn't scare them, but there's one player, who can, besides Portis - Cooley.

He just has to make those dump off catches, Brunell has to give the receivers room and they have to make the tough catch. Cincy will double Coles deep, and will most like use a scheme to have help closer to Gardner, but they can't do that and cover Cooley, who's got a gear, I swear, we haven't seen!

[Jimreaper007]

"In a van, down by the river"

Christopher Farley?

Oh forgot to mention, Cincy's got the 11th spot against the pass, so they are very likely to max coverage, and use "base" defense, showing cofidence against our short passing and try to stop mainly Portis. Betts doesn't scare them, but there's one player, who can, besides Portis - Cooley.

He just has to make those dump off catches, Brunell has to give the receivers room and they have to make the tough catch. Cincy will double Coles deep, and will most like use a scheme to have help closer to Gardner, but they can't do that and cover Cooley, who's got a gear, I swear, we haven't seen!


Making Brunell's throws sound easy is funny. The second half of the Detroit game tells me and everyone else on the planet how much confidence Joe gibbs has in Brunell's arm.

Joe Gibbs did not allow him to even throw short underneath passes....

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Spread the field... Use Thrash and Jacobs with 3 and 4 WR formations. We have a lot of talent in there just to be wasted IMO.

[Jimreaper007]

Spread the field... Use Thrash and Jacobs with 3 and 4 WR formations. We have a lot of talent in there just to be wasted IMO.


It's wasted anyway since everyone knows the Redskins have to throw underneath.

Pretty soon Brunell is gonna start short arming hand offs...

[IMALILTEAPOT]

i think we need to do the things that we did early against dallas if anyone remembers. we were doing this delay, screens to portis, and brunell did a great job of selling and making them think that the play was dead. i think we had like 2 back to back first downs

[IMALILTEAPOT]

Pretty soon Brunell is gonna start short arming hand offs...
hahah thats messed up. but u made a great point about the fact that the passes will be short all the time. We need to get at least 2 or 3 deep passes in this game

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

It's wasted anyway since everyone knows the Redskins have to throw underneath.

Pretty soon Brunell is gonna start short arming hand offs...
Actually, I also want Ramsey instead of Brunell, but that may had been considered as bashing.... :)

[Jimreaper007]

Bashing Brunell is saying he has a noodle arm....


Saying that everyone in the league has seen the fruit's of Brunell's labor is not. His results dictate that teams adjust their game plans


I am waiting to see when the first team places 80 year ladies on the corners knowing Brunell still could not get the ball to the WR's.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Bashing Brunell is saying he has a noddle arm....


Saying that everyone in the league has seen the fruit's of Brunell's labor is not. His results dictate that teams adjust their game plans


I am waiting to see when the first team places 80 year ladies on the corners knowing Brunell still could not get the ball to the WR's.
Are you saying my Grandma cannot defend against Brunell? :)

[Jimreaper007]

Are you saying my Grandma cannot defend against Brunell? :)


I am saying that your Grandma would look like Deion in his prime high stepping into the endzone with one of Brunell's slow motion specials.

[bexskins1]

THROW AND CATCH....MAYBE ;)

[Jimreaper007]

THROW AND CATCH....MAYBE ;)


That would be a good start....

If I am a redskin opponet and I am watching film of Brunell, I know exactly what I have to do on Sunday to win.

[Dolla Bill]

I would love to see a reverse of the play calling. I know there have been more runs out of necessity, but play-action to Cooley or the TE would be nice. Have 3 WR formations to clear out one, or have the WR clear out a side of the field for the HB or TB. There have been some people wondering where our short passing game is, but with 8-9 in the box, its hard to throw into heavy coverage. With Jacobs and Coles, if you throw to them while they're running a 5-6 yrd route, they have the ability to turn it easily into a 10-15 yard catch. Let the receivers get the YAC to help the passing game instead of having to heave it 40-50 in the air. I know you take your shots, but you start with the basics. Also, if the running game gets stalled, we're in big trouble.

[gipper]

It's very obvious to me that Brunell needs his eyes checked and needs glasses he needs an eye check no doubt about it.That is usually overlooked in a player plus a bionic arm.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Well, now that Ramsey is finally back where he belongs, the passing attack in general should look better. Those drops still need to be fixed, though. And I really miss Jon Jansen after this game, but there's nothing we can really do about that.

[DPHoo]

1) Keep Ramsey as the starter. He has much more potential than Brunell, who is a great guy but his career looks to be over.

2) Bench Gardner in favor of McCants. I admit that he has played better this year but he is too inconsistent and he lacks speed. McCants is the best WR that we have now and he catches most of the passes thrown his way.

3) Use Jacobs and Coles to stretch the field with McCants working the middle.

4) Use more screens to Portis, he is the only game breaker that we have.

[Jimreaper007]

Is Brunell gone.....Yes

There ya go

Team fixed...just give it time now