Official "Motown Brawl" thread

[lakeskin]

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/venkol/priceless.JPG

I guess the link doesnt work.

The best part is when the dork in the stands is yelling at ron artest and ron charges him and the fan gets this look on his face like he just sh** his pants. Classic.

Great for the NBA. It will be all over the news.

[dj_stouty]

Typical NBA....

[rskinsfan10]

If this doesn't change the attitude of fans that think that they have the right to do more then sit back and watch the game, nothing will.

[CarMike]

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/venkol/priceless.JPG

I guess the link doesnt work.

The best part is when the dork in the stands is yelling at ron artest and ron charges him and the fan gets this look on his face like he just sh** his pants. Classic.

Great for the NBA. It will be all over the news.

Heck, If i hadn't done anything, I'd have the same look. If you notice, he didn't do a thing. It was the fatter dude with the hat on that threw the cup that hit Artest.

At first, before I saw the clip, when I heard it was Artest who was involved, I had already deemed him as the bad guy. But after watching it, I can't say that I blame him.

This is completely on the fans of Detroit.

[rskinsfan10]

Heck, If i hadn't done anything, I'd have the same look. If you notice, he didn't do a thing. It was the fatter dude with the hat on that threw the cup that hit Artest.

At first, before I saw the clip, when I heard it was Artest who was involved, I had already deemed him as the bad guy. But after watching it, I can't say that I blame him.

This is completely on the fans of Detroit.

I totally agree Mike.

Several things that concern me. First, where the hell was the security? The league is in charge of that, yet they were ghost semmingly.

Secondly, even after Artest and the others were pulled from the stands, there were several fans that came on the court in front of the Pacers bench. Again, why isn't security stopping these clowns? I'm glad that those two with Pistons jerseys got popped in the face by Artest and O'Neal.

Lastly, there was another fan that approached Artest as he standing in the middle of the floor. Artest was ready to engage him too. A police officer runs up to Artest and pulls out his pepper spray and threatens to spray him, TOTALLY ignoring the fan that had no business on the floor. HELLO?? Shouldn't he have been pepper spraying the fan that had no business on the floor?

[CarMike]

I totally agree Mike.

Several things that concern me. First, where the hell was the security? The league is in charge of that, yet they were ghost semmingly.
Security was too scare to get involved I guess....they were invisable

Secondly, even after Artest and the others were pulled from the stands, there were several fans that came on the court in front of the Pacers bench. Again, why isn't security stopping these clowns? I'm glad that those two with Pistons jerseys got popped in the face by Artest and O'Neal.
Thats what had me surprised. That little fat dude just strolls up to Artest with his fists rolled up.....IDIOT!

Lastly, there was another fan that approached Artest as he standing in the middle of the floor. Artest was ready to engage him too. A police officer runs up to Artest and pulls out his pepper spray and threatens to spray him, TOTALLY ignoring the fan that had no business on the floor. HELLO?? Shouldn't he have been pepper spraying the fan that had no business on the floor?
I didn't see that footage. But you're right. Why not get the fan under controll. The player has the right to be on the court. Thats like someone breaking into my house. He's still there when the police arrive, and they handcuff me. Another IDIOT!

BTW, did anyone hear Jim Grey talking about what happened? His voice was cracking, sounding like he was about to cry....the only funny thing to come from this. If you haven't heard it, listen in on ESPNews. Very amusing if you have a dislike for Grey, as I do.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Police are reviewing tapes in preparation for criminal charges, and not just for the players.

[CarMike]

I heard somebody say that there's going to be some people trying to milk this for some $$$$$

I don't blame the guy that Artest attacked. Since he wasn't the one who started it. [He didn't throw the cup] Its going to get ugly!

[IowaSkinsFan]

I heard somebody say that there's going to be some people trying to milk this for some $$$$$

Without a doubt, and you know someone will cash in because of this.

[BigCountry]

Funniest part was seeing a fan who was 5 foot mush challenge Ron Artest and get clocked right in the jaw. There's a "not too bright moment" if I've ever seen one.

[Skinzaholic]

This is sad and may change thw way fans get to experience sporting events in the future. Stupid fans who took advantage of a situation to express their anger. Ron Artest is no angel - but he has every right to protect himself. I blame security and the NBA in general for this...

The worst picture is of the little boy (I think he was one of the players sons) crying in his mothers arms - a look of fear on his face. That shouldn't happen at a Basketball GAME!

[GolfFreak]

I'm shocked that people are supporting the players and not the fans here. Ron Artest is a thug and we seen sh*t like this from him over the last few years. Don't forget that a flagrant foul by him started the whole thing. Then he has to lay on the scoring table like a bad ass. I'm not saying it's OK for the fans to throw things, but I think Ronny deserves a hell of a lot of blame for this brawl.

[CarMike]

GolfFreak, I agree Artest isn't a little at fault. But fans should not take it up on themselves to throw things at players. Being in the heat of things, I don't know many people who would allow someone else to throw a drink on them and not retaliate.

I think Wallace is the one who started this. Sure, Artest was called for a flagrant foul. But it was B. Wallace who shoved Artest.

In the end. No ones right and everyones wrong....

[Axegrinder]

The players should have gone to their locker rooms period!
If they were stupid enough to go into the stands,they deserved what happened.
If I had been an innocent bystander and I got caught in between this,I would have been part of the problem too.
Artest could have got an officer and got the fan tossed,but he took matters into his own hands.
BONEHEADS!!!

[LATrueRedskin]

The players should have gone to their locker rooms period!
If they were stupid enough to go into the stands,they deserved what happened.
If I had been an innocent bystander and I got caught in between this,I would have been part of the problem too.
Artest could have got an officer and got the fan tossed,but he took matters into his own hands.
BONEHEADS!!!

I agree. What a fool. This is the NBA, not street ball. Fans can get like this at times, and actually going into the stands and fighting fans doesn't help the situation. Just go to the locker room. This doesn't help my continuing loss of interest in the NBA.

[swheeler]

Players have no right to go into the stands. Ever. Artest got hit with a plastic cup of beer. It's not like his life was in danger. Someone on TV was saying any athlete would have responded the same way. I don't think that's true at all. I would be shocked to see an NFL player take a fight to the stands. These guys are professionals, they need to be able to show a little restraint. The fans shouldn't have been on the court, but once the players went into the stands its hard to expect anyone to follow the rules.

[chrisbcbu]

Players have no right to go into the stands. Ever. Artest got hit with a plastic cup of beer. It's not like his life was in danger. Someone on TV was saying any athlete would have responded the same way. I don't think that's true at all. I would be shocked to see an NFL player take a fight to the stands. These guys are professionals, they need to be able to show a little restraint. The fans shouldn't have been on the court, but once the players went into the stands its hard to expect anyone to follow the rules.

They throw stuff all the time in Baseball games. Hell a player threw a chair into the stands in one Baseball game i watched. Security was all over it and stopped it. But you didnt see the fans jumping onto the field and attack the players.

Hell even when the fans get pissed off enough and throw stuff onto the field the coaches are smart enough to get their players off the field in a hurry and head to the dugout/locker room to get away.

But not the NBA players. They have no class, instead they fight the crowd. GJ NBA, and the players will probably be fined 10k and/or suspeded with pay for 2 games. While the fans that were involved are going to go to jail.

[Booser]

well, watching the replay, i think it was hilarious to watch that dude challenge artest on the floor. he got up close to artest and then he realized just how big the guy was - you could see it in his face.

BTW, it looked to me like wallace started the fight. the foul wasn't a particularly hard one, but he went right at artest.

[Axegrinder]

This is the new NBA.
A bunch of potheads and thugs.
I will say that it was the most teamwork that I've seen from a NBA club in years.:D
See what happens when there's No Sportsmanship anymore?

[CarMike]

A beat writer for the Pacers said that the Refs left the court just after the fight started in the stands.

I know they won't, but they should be held responsible. They are in charge of the BB court. When they decided to leave, it was a major screw up....IMHO

[Skinzaholic]

I wont be surprised to hear about that guy Artest originally attacked in the fans seeking some major compensation from Artest. He wasnt even the one who threw the cup - big mistake by Artest and dollar signs for that fan I bet.

[rskinsfan10]

I'm shocked that people are supporting the players and not the fans here. Ron Artest is a thug and we seen sh*t like this from him over the last few years. Don't forget that a flagrant foul by him started the whole thing. Then he has to lay on the scoring table like a bad ass. I'm not saying it's OK for the fans to throw things, but I think Ronny deserves a hell of a lot of blame for this brawl.

Actually, it was Ben Wallace's overreaction to Artest's foul that started all of this. I've seen harder fouls not responded to in the manner that Wallace did. IMO, it was more about who committed the foul then the foul itself. Also, Artest made no attempt to fight Wallace. When Wallace was coming after him, Artest retreated to avoid the fight. Wallace then throws gas on the flames by tossing a towel towards the Pacers bench.

None of that gives a fan the right to throw crap at players and onto the floor, but IMO Ben Wallace is more to blame for all of this then Artest is.

[IndianBaller27]

I completely agree with rskinsfan10. You can't blame all of this on Artest. Sure, the players are never supposed to go into the crowd, but you think it's ok to throw stuff at the players?? Ben Wallace started it all. He pushed Artest and threw a towel at the Pacers Bench. IMO Artest was lying on the scoretable cuz he was trying to calm himself down. If you were in the same situation. Trying to calm yourself down, and then someone throws a drink at you, you wouldn't just sit there. You would probably go up in the stands at kick his @$$.

But that fat guy that came onto the court was just plain hilarious. He's a frickin idiot.

[IMALILTEAPOT]

But that fat guy that came onto the court was just plain hilarious. He's a frickin idiot.
hahahahahaahah yea he ran out trying to act buck but once he saw artest he just froze. :sfight:

[RedskinsVision]

A beat writer for the Pacers said that the Refs left the court just after the fight started in the stands.

I know they won't, but they should be held responsible. They are in charge of the BB court. When they decided to leave, it was a major screw up....IMHO

right after the incident when those 2 fans came on the court to battle Artest and after that dude got his chin rung up by J. O'Neal, one of the refs got blasted by a beer bottle/cup.. so they did not leave the court when the fight went into the stands cuz they were in the middle of it when the fight came onto the court.

[GibbsRules!]

Artest was guilty of leaving the court and any fan on the court or throwing anything at a player is just as guilty.
To say an inanimate object can't hurt a player is easy, but ask former Cleveland tackle Orlando Brown if a penalty flag can injure an eye...we may have seen the beer cups and what was big 'cause they were visible.
It was an ugly display of anger on behalf of the fans and players. Sports venues need to look at extra security after this. Wonder if this effects the distribution of alcohol at future events at the Palace of Auburn Hills?
This whole thing pales in comparison to what has happened at Soccer games in England. I'm sure Flave and General Disorder could tell some stories...
I know from living in Greece the fans there can become ravenous over soccer matches!!

[dj_stouty]

Artest got beer poured on him. Big deal.

If you jump into the stands looking for a fight, you will find one. There would have been no riot, had Artest and Jackson not entered the stands for the altercation.

[swheeler]

Artest got beer poured on him. Big deal.

If you jump into the stands looking for a fight, you will find one. There would have been no riot, had Artest and Jackson not entered the stands for the altercation.

Agreed. I've had beer poured on me and not felt the need to "defend myself". I've seen others, understandably, react more violently. But players are professionals, and have a little more responsibility than some drunk at a frat party. Or maybe even some drunk watching the game. I'm not saying the fans should be excused, but NBA players should be held to a higher standard than the average joe. As false as it is, the comment that "any athlete would react the same way" is a sad reflection on the standards to which we hold pro athletes.

[Jimreaper007]

Artest is a nut-case, but I think the fans are at fault the most here.

[flave1969]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=1928030


I found this article interesting about what form of punishment should be given out.

It compares the situation to what would happen in the soccer world. I find it laughable because soccer fans believe that FIFA and UEFA are far too lenient in the punishments it gives out.

[flave1969]

Artest was guilty of leaving the court and any fan on the court or throwing anything at a player is just as guilty.
To say an inanimate object can't hurt a player is easy, but ask former Cleveland tackle Orlando Brown if a penalty flag can injure an eye...we may have seen the beer cups and what was big 'cause they were visible.
It was an ugly display of anger on behalf of the fans and players. Sports venues need to look at extra security after this. Wonder if this effects the distribution of alcohol at future events at the Palace of Auburn Hills?
This whole thing pales in comparison to what has happened at Soccer games in England. I'm sure Flave and General Disorder could tell some stories...
I know from living in Greece the fans there can become ravenous over soccer matches!!

You have not been able to buy alcohol at an English game for many years now. I believe it has had a big effect on the trouble inside grounds. In relative terms the UK has really cleaned up its act, I say relative because compared to some of the things you see in Italy, Spain and Holland, the UK has really cleaned up its act. However there is a long way too go. Fights between fans and players are very rare. Only Eric Cantona has been banned for diving into a crowd. But I bet many players have felt like it. What you saw in Detroit was probably pretty extreme and I am sure player/fan brawls are pretty rare also.

Fan on fan violence is very common I am sure in a lot of sports. Look at Philly tonight they will all be beating the crap out of eachother win or lose tonight. :)

[Spence]

"Among the Thugs" is one of the most chilling and entertaining books ever written.

[rskinsfan10]

Artest got beer poured on him. Big deal.

If you jump into the stands looking for a fight, you will find one. There would have been no riot, had Artest and Jackson not entered the stands for the altercation.
If I'm at work, doing my job, and someone walks past me and throws something at me or pours beer on me, when I didn't do anything to them, I'm brawling. That's assault.

Hey, that's just me though.

[GibbsRules!]

This article sums it up nicely...the fans are just as guilty! Just 'cause you pay, doesn't mean you can play!

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Basketball/2004/11/21/724725.html

[LATrueRedskin]

I completely agree with rskinsfan10. You can't blame all of this on Artest. Sure, the players are never supposed to go into the crowd, but you think it's ok to throw stuff at the players?? Ben Wallace started it all. He pushed Artest and threw a towel at the Pacers Bench. IMO Artest was lying on the scoretable cuz he was trying to calm himself down. If you were in the same situation. Trying to calm yourself down, and then someone throws a drink at you, you wouldn't just sit there. You would probably go up in the stands at kick his @$$.


Absolutely not. Of course I'd be pissed, but this is professional basketball (or maybe "professional basketball"). Whatever the case may be, YOU DON'T ATTACK FANS. Period. The fans are jerks for throwing crap at the players and on the court, but in that case, if your the player, you just get the hell out of Dodge. You don't attack somebody who "might" have thrown the cup at you. If you want to fight (which I confess I would if the fans are throwing things), take it out on the Pistons, not the fans. And Jackson, O'Neal, and Artest are the three BEST players on their team. They just put their own team in a huge hole while they're out.

[chrisbcbu]

If I'm at work, doing my job, and someone walks past me and throws something at me or pours beer on me, when I didn't do anything to them, I'm brawling. That's assault.

Hey, that's just me though.

they are also getting paid millions of dollars to perform for the fans. And by no means am i not placing blame on the fans. No matter what the fans should never throw things onto/at the players/court. But that also goes to the players as they should not under any circumstance charge the fans.

If i was getting paid in the millions, i wouldnt want to jeopordize(sp?) that money in any way possible.

[Axegrinder]

To All Involved......
See ya,I wouldn't wanna be ya! :banhim:

[chrisbcbu]

im wondering that since Artest already asked for time off without pay. That if he didnt do this on purpose to go and promote his CD.

[RedskinsDave]

Artest is a moron at best. One, going into the stands is moronic since having a beer thrown on you isn't so horrible. Two, he apparently went after the wrong guy. Open up that checkbook you idiot, that guy you grabbed is gonna get a nice payday.

[RedskinsDave]

Word out is 40 games for Artest, 30 for the other two Pistons and 5 for Wallace. We'll have to see what the police have to say as well.

[akhhorus]

Word out is 40 games for Artest, 30 for the other two Pistons and 5 for Wallace. We'll have to see what the police have to say as well.

makes sense. Although Wallace should be gone at least 20 games. He started this with a bs reaction to not a hard foul. And then continued it by throwing stuff at Artest after things had calmed down.

[IowaSkinsFan]

This just in.

Artest is gone for the season.

Looks like he got that vacation he wanted to promote his album.

Maybe he will take his time off to learn what integrity means.

[suppitty]

jackson is out for 30 games, and j-oneal is out 25 games. The pacers season is in major trouble.

[GolfFreak]

Yeah, I heard Artest is out for the year after this - I think this is a good move by the NBA and to set a standard for this type of thing in the future (heaven forbid).

My jaw drops still when I see footage of this. This is the worst thing I've seen in professional sports ...

[LATrueRedskin]

Yeah, I heard Artest is out for the year after this - I think this is a good move by the NBA and to set a standard for this type of thing in the future (heaven forbid).

My jaw drops still when I see footage of this. This is the worst thing I've seen in professional sports ...

I agree. Although I don't think it's ALL Artests fault (and O'Neals and Jacksons), the NBA pretty much HAS to do this. Good job by Stern to lay the hammer down and nip this in the bud. The Pacers are screwed, and they can thank their players for that.

[ShaggySkins]

The biggest thing that bothers me is that Jackson, O'Neal, and Artest all got very long suspensions 25 games or more but Ben Wallace only got 5 games. This all was escalated because Wallace over reacted to a hard foul by Artest. That is what set this whole thing off. I really have to question whether some favoritism is being shown to Wallace who is a big NBA figure on the cover of video games and a guy that is very marketable. I don't see the logic behind him only getting 5 games. I'm not saying he should be suspended for the year but atleast 10-15 games.

[Axegrinder]

It happens every night in the NBA[hard fouls and pissed players].
How many go into the stands to fight?Did Wallace?

[LATrueRedskin]

It happens every night in the NBA[hard fouls and pissed players].
How many go into the stands to fight?Did Wallace?

That's what I think too. Stern REALLY didn't like the fact that the players went into the stands and actually fought the fans. Wallace didn't do that. He got a normal suspension for fighting a player.

[ShaggySkins]

It happens every night in the NBA[hard fouls and pissed players].
How many go into the stands to fight?Did Wallace?

No he didn't, but he was still a VERY large part of why it escalated to where it did. Like I said I don't think he deserves a season suspension or even as high as some of the other players got. But he was still very responsible for how it escalated.

[akhhorus]

Agreed Shaggy, he should have gotten 10-15 games at least. Anyone else think Artest will retire instead of coming back if the suspension isnt reduced?

[rskinsfan10]

It happens every night in the NBA[hard fouls and pissed players].
How many go into the stands to fight?Did Wallace?

Actually, Wallace did attempt several times to follow Artest into the stands. Who knows what his intent was, as a peacemaker or to get to Artest, but he did try.

[ShaggySkins]

Agreed Shaggy, he should have gotten 10-15 games at least. Anyone else think Artest will retire instead of coming back if the suspension isnt reduced?

I don't see him retiring, I do see him coming back however at a EXTREMELY high intensity. Even more then before cuz I think this is going to be just 1 more chip on his shoulder. I have to wonder how the Pacers will welcome him back though. He'll probably be dealt if he comes back and they won't get near value for him based on this incident.

[Axegrinder]

He needs to play on Spreewells team.
No wonder these guys smoke dope,they need to calm down.

[Booser]

he will act indignant, but he wont care too much. all he has been worried about this season is that stupid CD he is producing anyway. anyone see the halftime interview? he was plugging the CD on the court at halftime. artest is a real professional.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

something tells me artest isnt going to be all that upset about the suspension....now he has plenty of time to go work on his whack album. :rolleyes:

[JakeIron]

The biggest thing that bothers me is that Jackson, O'Neal, and Artest all got very long suspensions 25 games or more but Ben Wallace only got 5 games. This all was escalated because Wallace over reacted to a hard foul by Artest. That is what set this whole thing off. I really have to question whether some favoritism is being shown to Wallace who is a big NBA figure on the cover of video games and a guy that is very marketable. I don't see the logic behind him only getting 5 games. I'm not saying he should be suspended for the year but atleast 10-15 games.

Right you are. Thing that bothers me the most are the fans. Here in europe we have many "riots" in soccer matches and the home team will ALWAYS be punished if their fans act violently. IMO the NBA should punish the Pistons as an organization. 3-4 home games for empty stands would be very appropriate. and BTW I think the pacers very punished fairly.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Agreed Shaggy, he should have gotten 10-15 games at least. Anyone else think Artest will retire instead of coming back if the suspension isnt reduced?

No. After his album flops he will still need to feed his family.

[Minnesota Mike]

I've heard about this for a few days now, but since I don't pay any attention to the NBA it was mostly just background noise for me. I saw a bit of the video this weekend. It was some pretty nasty stuff. Those players deserve every bit of their suspensions.

These are NBA players afterall. Who do they think they are? - Philadelphia Flyers?

[chrisbcbu]

The biggest thing that bothers me is that Jackson, O'Neal, and Artest all got very long suspensions 25 games or more but Ben Wallace only got 5 games. This all was escalated because Wallace over reacted to a hard foul by Artest. That is what set this whole thing off. I really have to question whether some favoritism is being shown to Wallace who is a big NBA figure on the cover of video games and a guy that is very marketable. I don't see the logic behind him only getting 5 games. I'm not saying he should be suspended for the year but atleast 10-15 games.

I dont agree with this at all. Wallace may have started it(im not arguing with that) but he pushed a player then threw a towel towards the Pacers bench. Thats it!! How does that warrant a 10-15 game suspension?

Once Artest started to calm down he got hit with a cup of beer(would have pissed me off too) then he charged the FANS. In no circumstance should a player EVER charge the fans. That is completely inexcusable. Then for Jackson and O'neal to start swinging on FANS they deserved the suspension as well. Now if Wallace would have taken a swing at a fan he would have gotten a more severe punishment. But as seeing as all he did was push and throw a towel, that does not warrant a more severe punishment. IMHO

[akhhorus]

now, after he is reinstated, how long before Artest is traded.

[lakeskin]

now, after he is reinstated, how long before Artest is traded.

If I were an opposing team I would try to trade for Artest right now. You would be getting a great player on the cheap. I grant you he is insane, but insane players have worked out for teams before.

[Emmanouel8]

Ben Wallace got more than I thought he should have. I can't blame Wallace for the bedlam Artest created. Fights in the NBA occur w/o having a riot ensue. You can point at towels being thrown at the bench and all that but ultimitely the fault lands on Artest for going into the stands and taking the fight there.

Artest is the culprit, and his two cronies O Neil and Jackson should have been suspended just as long as Artest. If I were Stern I would have banned Artest and suspended both O Neil and Jackson for a year. Artest is mentally unstable.

[IMALILTEAPOT]

did artest even hit the right person?

[Axegrinder]

I dont agree with this at all. Wallace may have started it(im not arguing with that) but he pushed a player then threw a towel towards the Pacers bench. Thats it!! How does that warrant a 10-15 game suspension?

Once Artest started to calm down he got hit with a cup of beer(would have pissed me off too) then he charged the FANS. In no circumstance should a player EVER charge the fans. That is completely inexcusable. Then for Jackson and O'neal to start swinging on FANS they deserved the suspension as well. Now if Wallace would have taken a swing at a fan he would have gotten a more severe punishment. But as seeing as all he did was push and throw a towel, that does not warrant a more severe punishment. IMHO
I am of your opinion.

[Dolla Bill]

Given the state or security or lack of it, what would you guys of done if somebody came onto the court and tried to look for a fight? I know they should of ran into the locker room, but its kind of self defense. The one punch that O' Neal launched about 5 feet away was uncalled for, the brawl was already starting to calm down and he just layed into a guy.

[GibbsRules!]

I dont agree with this at all. Wallace may have started it(im not arguing with that) but he pushed a player then threw a towel towards the Pacers bench. Thats it!! How does that warrant a 10-15 game suspension?

Once Artest started to calm down he got hit with a cup of beer(would have pissed me off too) then he charged the FANS. In no circumstance should a player EVER charge the fans. That is completely inexcusable. Then for Jackson and O'neal to start swinging on FANS they deserved the suspension as well. Now if Wallace would have taken a swing at a fan he would have gotten a more severe punishment. But as seeing as all he did was push and throw a towel, that does not warrant a more severe punishment. IMHO
Totally correct Chrisbcbu! Fights and suspensions happen frequently in the NBA. The punishment fit the crime for Wallace. He didn't carry it into the stands and shouldn't be responsible for Artests' screw up. Artest was afraid to confront Big Ben, period! I bet Artest was glad he could divert his attention...
What happened after that was on the shoulders of Artest, O'Neal and Jackson, along with some overzealous fans. EOS.

[akhhorus]

And shocker, he has a criminal record. he was the guy in the blue "Wallace" jacket punching Artest in the video:

http://www.clickondetroit.com/sports/3938054/detail.html

Report: Fan In White Hat Has Criminal History

Man Accused Of Throwing First Cup Speaks To Police

POSTED: 7:50 am EST November 22, 2004
AUBURN HILLS, Mich. -- Police continue to identify all of the fans involved in Friday night's brawl at The Palace of Auburn Hills, while the man accused of throwing the cup that sparked the incident speaks to Local 4.

Police have identified this fan -- believed to have thrown the first beer at the Indiana Pacers' Ron Artest -- as John Green, of West Bloomfield.

John Green, of West Bloomfield, was caught on tape throwing his cup of beer onto Indiana Pacers player Ron Artest, Local 4 reported. The act sent Artest into a rage in the stands, where players and fans then fought during the game between the Pistons and the Pacers.

Local 4 learned that Green has a criminal history, which includes the following offenses:


2003 -- Operating under the influence of liquor/operating while visibly impaired (second offense)

1989 -- Assault with intent to do great bodily harm less than murder

1989 -- Escape from prison

1986 -- Carrying concealed weapons

1986 -- Uttering and publishing, which is using a false, forged, altered or counterfeit record, deed or instrument to injure or defraud.

[Spence]

Did you notice how that putz stood aside and practically ushered Artest towards that poor bastard who suffered the initial assault? I'm pretty sure that kid had a cup of something [soda?] in his hand when Artest attacked him. Unless the guy was dying of thirst and had two drinks, it stands to reason he was not the offending fan.

I hope the throw the book at that other guy, the one who actually did throw the cup of ice.

[Booser]

what is the civil outlook for artest, spence? does the guy he pummeled in the stands have an airtight case to make some money?

[Spence]

what is the civil outlook for artest, spence? does the guy he pummeled in the stands have an airtight case to make some money?Absolutely airtight. He's got Artest for assault [which in this case will amount to menacing] and battery, which is the actual physical attack. Artest didn't appear to do much damage, though, so it remains to be seen how much money would change hands. The problem for Artest is that if the victim's lawyer can show that someone else threw the cup of ice, Artest will be looking at a VERY hostile jury. And that's why it'll never go to a jury. Artest will have to sign a big check and maybe put regular gasoline in his Lexus for three months. [He'll still be able to put premium in the Mas and the Lam.]

[Booser]

well, since he is suspended without pay for the season (price tag - $5 mil), he might be putting regular in the lexus anyway. he better hope that album goes platinum.

[akhhorus]

Two fans have already filed suits against the Pacers: The team. I'm not providing a link out of spite...

[SkinsGuru]

did artest even hit the right person?

Nope he went right by John Green and attacked the guy to his left . . .

The Pistons and the Pacers were supposed to be the 2 best teams in the eastern conference. The Pacers are DEAD . . . IF the Pistons win the Eastern Conference Title of NBA Championship, do the Piston fans receive the 6th man of the year award (for knocking the pacers out of the playoffs in week 3 of the season)??? LOL :rolleyes:

[IowaSkinsFan]

Artest is also saying he wants to be back in time for the playoffs. Doesn't "suspended for the season" also include the playoffs?

[RedskinRyan]

well atleast the dude had 14 years between his offenses according to that list....

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page3/story?page=lateword/041123 - jokes about what happened

""This is probably the first sporting event in history where the nose bleed seats were right in the front. ..."

[Carmelo]

If I'm at work, doing my job, and someone walks past me and throws something at me or pours beer on me, when I didn't do anything to them, I'm brawling. That's assault.

Hey, that's just me though.
I think a lot of this comes from our point of views in life. I definitely agree with you kenny. It's just life from a different perspective. For instance, Fent and I were at that skins game when we were sitting under you and some guys threatened to throw beer on us for not sitting down. Fent's reaction was to yell, "I'll call security and you'll get thrown out!" That reaction blew my mind cause all I could even think of saying is, "If you throw a beer at me, I'm going to come up there and beat your monkey [censored by spence]" I just think it's a different way of life. I grew up thinking that there were certain things in life that just deserve and butt whoopin'. Throwing a beer on me is definitely in that category. You throw beer on me in any situation except for a celebration of some sorts and I feel fully justified in slugging you. Sorry, just my humble opinion. I just wish Artest would have beat up on the right guy when he ran into the stands. For that, he was wrong but I'm sure that guy will be nicely compensated. It's actually not even a bad thing for him because he was just minding his business and suddenly became a millionare. I would like to be in his shoes. I know a lot of you are looking at this from the whole role model, professional angle but I can't help but to look at it from a 'you threw a beer at me' angle. It clearly states in section 2b of 'Things to get your butt kicked for' that throwing a beer on me requires swift and immediate action.

[CarMike]

I just wish Artest would have beat up on the right guy when he ran into the stands.

Exactly! Hey, I'm with you Carmelo and rskinsfan10. People never know though how they would react when they say that they would keep their cool. Just my opinion....

However, I did find it amusing what Michael Irvin said yesturday. If Artest could restrain himself when attacked by Wallace, why couldn't he do the same with the fans?

I found that statement very intrigueing.....

[IMALILTEAPOT]

yea it seemed to me that the guy who artest went after wasnt the guy cuz he seemed too surprised. but wow, that other guy has a long criminal record. its kind of crazy, now that i realize it, that we really dont know the people we sit next to in the games we attend. btw, did anyone see the sign the minnesota fans had at the vikings-lions game? these guys had a huge banner on top of the tunnel that said, "Dont worry, we won't throw beer." that was hilarious

[ihatedallas]

Im with you Carmelo, somebody threw a beer at him! What steven Jackson did was nutz...he deserves to be suspended. Artest went up and just pushed somebody onto the ground becuase he THOUGHT the guy threw a beer at him. The times where fans were on the court..those are exscusible...fans should not be on the court...Not to mention...A huge guy from the stands(i've heard its ben wallaces brother) started beating on the pacers who were trying to break up the fight. The kid crying was that guys son/nephew. I understand how peoploe think of it as you cant hit the fans...but the players are people too, there not above people. Some people say "well there professionals" Ok, so there professionals..but i dont think asn executive like Donald Trump would just let a fan throw a beer at him....

[Carmelo]

However, I did find it amusing what Michael Irvin said yesturday. If Artest could restrain himself when attacked by Wallace, why couldn't he do the same with the fans?

I found that statement very intrigueing.....
Maybe it was the staw that broke the camels back.

Some people say "well there professionals" Ok, so there professionals..but i dont think asn executive like Donald Trump would just let a fan throw a beer at him....
For those who go the 'professional' route, I can't agree. I look at this from a person's view, not a professional view. Artest isn't a professional passivist, he's a ball player. When someone throws a beer on me my first thought isn't, "what would the moral player do?" It's a heat of the moment thing and I'd expect someone to react the way he did... You just have to beat on the right person... :banghead:

[Axegrinder]

I read this today.Your views please.
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/columnists/jason_whitlock/10242339.htm?1c

[ihatedallas]

I read this today.Your views please.
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/columnists/jason_whitlock/10242339.htm?1c
Its bringing up something about registering

[rskinsfan10]

Exactly! Hey, I'm with you Carmelo and rskinsfan10. People never know though how they would react when they say that they would keep their cool. Just my opinion....

However, I did find it amusing what Michael Irvin said yesturday. If Artest could restrain himself when attacked by Wallace, why couldn't he do the same with the fans?

I found that statement very intrigueing.....

I think the difference in fighting Wallace and fighting the fans is the context of the confrontation. Wallace pushing him was probably to be expected in a sense. It's a part of the game, and something that may be expected when you are out on the court. You don't expect someone to throw something at you from the crowd when you did absolutely nothing to him/her however.

[rskinsfan10]

Artest is also saying he wants to be back in time for the playoffs. Doesn't "suspended for the season" also include the playoffs?
He's talking about the appeal process and hoping that his suspension will be reduced.

[Axegrinder]

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/columnists/jason_whitlock/10242339.htm?1c
Try it again.

[dj_stouty]

I don't know about you guys...but If I'm working and a customer throws a beer on me, and I beat the crap out of him, I won't have a job any more.

When I'm working I have a different "face on" than when I'm not working. If someone throws a beer on my at a Skins game, I'm decking them. End of story. If I'm at one of my organization's conferences, and an attendee throws a beer on me, I'm having security arrest them. Because no way around it, if you attack a customer, you aren't employed anymore.

The fans at the games...regardless if they are your home town fans or the opposing team fans in the stands, ARE customers.

[ihatedallas]

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/columnists/jason_whitlock/10242339.htm?1c
Try it again.

"new member eegistration"

[Sarahsmile215]

Regardless of a gut reaction when someone throws a beer at you or even your EXPECTED reaction, it does not make it right...regardless of whether you blame Artest or not for reacting the way he did because of what happened, it does not make it right.

Look at Jackie Robinson, he got things thrown his way, had insults and epithets tossed at him, and he was able to be the bigger person and just stand there.

My point is that you don't have to react the way Artest did, HE CHOSE TO, and he is getting punished as a result. You can argue, as my father does, that while he deserves a hefty suspension, the whole season is a bit much...regardless of what the fans did or didn't do, what Artest did is wrong.

If you read ESPN magazine you'll see a piece about Artest's father, who documents his son's problems with anger management as dating back to age 8 when he apparently choked some kid in the cafeteria. A counselor suggested basketball as a way to redirect his anger in a more healthy way...guess that didn't work too well.

[Carmelo]

Regardless of a gut reaction when someone throws a beer at you or even your EXPECTED reaction, it does not make it right...regardless of whether you blame Artest or not for reacting the way he did because of what happened, it does not make it right.

Look at Jackie Robinson, he got things thrown his way, had insults and epithets tossed at him, and he was able to be the bigger person and just stand there.

My point is that you don't have to react the way Artest did, HE CHOSE TO, and he is getting punished as a result. You can argue, as my father does, that while he deserves a hefty suspension, the whole season is a bit much...regardless of what the fans did or didn't do, what Artest did is wrong.

If you read ESPN magazine you'll see a piece about Artest's father, who documents his son's problems with anger management as dating back to age 8 when he apparently choked some kid in the cafeteria. A counselor suggested basketball as a way to redirect his anger in a more healthy way...guess that didn't work too well.

I understand what you're trying to say. I do think it was wrong to charge the stands but I also think it's justified.
I also don't think the comparison to Jackie Robinson is fair. First off, what Jackie did was courageous, but not quite the same. If Jackie would have charged the stands he would have been vastly outnumbered and if he would have retaliated on more even terms he would have been hung. Jackie couldn't fight back, not just for his safety, but for the future of blacks in baseball as well.
But like I said, I understand exactly what you're trying to say.

[Sarahsmile215]

I understand what you're trying to say. I do think it was wrong to charge the stands but I also think it's justified.
I also don't think the comparison to Jackie Robinson is fair. First off, what Jackie did was courageous, but not quite the same. If Jackie would have charged the stands he would have been vastly outnumbered and if he would have retaliated on more even terms he would have been hung. Jackie couldn't fight back, not just for his safety, but for the future of blacks in baseball as well.
But like I said, I understand exactly what you're trying to say.

I disagree. Maybe its just the pacifist in me but I think an eye for an eye is NEVER justified, regardless of what the fan did. What the fan did was stupid and obnoxious but Artest made a CHOICE to retaliate. He did NOT HAVE TO DO THIS. Just like when the fan threw the cup at Milton Bradley, he did not have to fight back, he chose to. Both players could have been bigger men and chose to stand straight and tall and take the abuse, which unfortunately, is common in sports events, but they did not...they fought back and were justly punished. I think the comparison to Jackie Robinson IS apt...after all, as I said, Milton Bradley made the choice to go after the fan. Jackie did not have to take it, he could have fought back in any regard, but he didn't. Abuse is abuse and there is ALWAYS a choice. Artest made the wrong one.

[ihatedallas]

I disagree. Maybe its just the pacifist in me but I think an eye for an eye is NEVER justified, regardless of what the fan did. What the fan did was stupid and obnoxious but Artest made a CHOICE to retaliate. He did NOT HAVE TO DO THIS. Just like when the fan threw the cup at Milton Bradley, he did not have to fight back, he chose to. Both players could have been bigger men and chose to stand straight and tall and take the abuse, which unfortunately, is common in sports events, but they did not...they fought back and were justly punished. I think the comparison to Jackie Robinson IS apt...after all, as I said, Milton Bradley made the choice to go after the fan. Jackie did not have to take it, he could have fought back in any regard, but he didn't. Abuse is abuse and there is ALWAYS a choice. Artest made the wrong one.

Well sitting there and taking the abuse has to effect someones pride... seeing that yhe's in front of thousands of people in the arena and thousands watching at home...im not dissagreeing..but i know its got to be hard to just to sit there and have stuff thrown at you without reacting

[SkinsGuru]

Artest is also saying he wants to be back in time for the playoffs. Doesn't "suspended for the season" also include the playoffs?

It is 73+ games, meaning the regular season AND the playoffs. The Pacers won't be there anyway.

[SkinsGuru]

Hey . . . if you don't have enough restrain that to resort to physical violence when a beer hits you, at least KNOW who threw it befor you go and start beating inocent poeple. Think about a cop getting a knife stuck into his arm from behind. He can't just turn around and shoot the first person he sees can he. Hell NO!! Artest should get a miniumum of 6 months in jail for beating an innocenc fan!!! And the all of the earnings left on his contract. What a joke . . . if you can't control your behavior you a a menace to society . . . go live where violence is the normal. (wait this was Detroit . . . LOL)

EDITED BY rskinsfan10: Please refrain from using expletives. You used them twice within this one post.

[sdredskinsfan]

Typical NBA....

Agreed.

[sdredskinsfan]

Well sitting there and taking the abuse has to effect someones pride... seeing that yhe's in front of thousands of people in the arena and thousands watching at home...im not dissagreeing..but i know its got to be hard to just to sit there and have stuff thrown at you without reacting

Of course, Artest shouldn't have been lying on the scorer's table either. But the response could have been simply to yell at the fan, if he had to unleash his impulse to retaliate.

The NBA is pathetic when it comes to player conduct on and off the court. NFL is soooooooo much more professional (not that the NFL is w/o incident........see TO).

[ihatedallas]

Of course, Artest shouldn't have been lying on the scorer's table either. But the response could have been simply to yell at the fan, if he had to unleash his impulse to retaliate.

The NBA is pathetic when it comes to player conduct on and off the court. NFL is soooooooo much more professional (not that the NFL is w/o incident........see TO).

yea i do agree that was just acking for conflict

[Axegrinder]

Trial set in Michigan....http://hamptonroads.cox.net/cci/sports/topstory?_mode=view&_state=maximized&view=article&id=D87RBIDO0

[guinness4health]

Heck, If i hadn't done anything, I'd have the same look. If you notice, he didn't do a thing. It was the fatter dude with the hat on that threw the cup that hit Artest.

At first, before I saw the clip, when I heard it was Artest who was involved, I had already deemed him as the bad guy. But after watching it, I can't say that I blame him.

This is completely on the fans of Detroit.

artest bares responsiblity for his actions but you are right the fans deserve the bulk of the blame, was gald to see the fans involved were baned from the arena for life