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SkinsRock36
01-02-2005, 07:11 PM
I couldn't believe the calls today. What is with the officials against the skins. Every week we get bad calls. The one that really pissed me off had to be the James Thrash (Redskin) facemask non-call. The other one that really irked me was the Culpepper Personel foul call which should of been intentional grounding. The NFL has to think about getting refs a little younger than 75 next year. The Refs blew atleast 2 games this year for are beloved team. Which is sad beacause 8-8 would of made it in the NFC. But hey we won! So lets all enjoy it! Hail to the Skins!!! :beer:

IndianBaller27
01-02-2005, 07:15 PM
Not another one of these threads! I wouldn't be mad at the refs from this game. I'm mad about the ones at the Dallas and GB games. Those ones actually mattered.

SkinsRock36
01-02-2005, 07:18 PM
Not another one of these threads! I wouldn't be mad at the refs from this game. I'm mad about the ones at the Dallas and GB games. Those ones actually mattered.


Yeah I understand you. But they sucked in this game just like in 85% of our games.

IndianBaller27
01-02-2005, 07:23 PM
Yeah I understand you. But they sucked in this game just like in 85% of our games.
true.... But we won in a game that didn't even matter.

redskin_rich
01-02-2005, 07:23 PM
I say, bring on the replacements.
:guillo:

2Cooley
01-02-2005, 07:29 PM
Hey the refs are fans of the game to...... just not skins fans

Jimreaper007
01-02-2005, 07:32 PM
Ummmmmm.......ok

They suck until they make a bad call that benefits the Skins.

I will be watching to see if they penalize Ty Law this year if he tries to become one with Marvin Harrison.

Skins57
01-02-2005, 07:34 PM
no use complaining about them as it doesn't do a darn bit of good

IndianBaller27
01-02-2005, 07:41 PM
Ummmmmm.......ok

They suck until they make a bad call that benefits the Skins.

I will be watching to see if they penalize Ty Law this year if he tries to become one with Marvin Harrison.
Prolly won't. They all love the Pats.

rskinsfan10
01-02-2005, 07:42 PM
You have to admit that roughing call had to have been one of the worst calls in the entire history of professional football. A 260lb QB, who BTW escaped a sack when charging LB tried to bowl over him with his forearms, falls down simply from being pushed "gently"? C'mon.

Vonslydog
01-02-2005, 07:48 PM
You have to admit that roughing call had to have been one of the worst calls in the entire history of professional football. A 260lb QB, who BTW escaped a sack when charging LB tried to bowl over him with his forearms, falls down simply from being pushed "gently"? C'mon.
Doesn't matter if he fell down or not. He shouldn't have been pushed. Effect has nothing to do with it. If a defensive player just flicks the QB, or pinches his forearm, in that situation, it is roughing. The call was legit.

straightupbeast
01-02-2005, 07:53 PM
Doesn't matter if he fell down or not. He shouldn't have been pushed. Effect has nothing to do with it. If a defensive player just flicks the QB, or pinches his forearm, in that situation, it is roughing. The call was legit.

that was not legit...lets get serious

Vonslydog
01-02-2005, 07:59 PM
that was not legit...lets get serious
This is from the PROTECTION OF PASSER section of the NFL rulebook.

...
3. No defensive player may run into a passer of a legal forward pass after the ball has left his hand (15 yards). The Referee must determine whether opponent had a reasonable chance to stop his momentum during an attempt to block the pass or tackle the passer while he still had the ball.
...

The pass had left culpepper's hand. After the pass left his hand, he was shoved. It wasn't incidental. It was an intentional shove. There was no momentum to overcome. It was just a plain old, unneccessary shove. It wasn't a hard shove, and it was not a dangerous shove. But it was a shove. Period. Please tell me how it was not a legit call, according to the rule book.

rskinsfan10
01-02-2005, 08:16 PM
Doesn't matter if he fell down or not. He shouldn't have been pushed. Effect has nothing to do with it. If a defensive player just flicks the QB, or pinches his forearm, in that situation, it is roughing. The call was legit.
I've seen alot of QBs get it alot harder then that after the ball is gone, with no calls made. This is football, not patty cake.

Vonslydog
01-02-2005, 08:19 PM
I've seen alot of QBs get it alot harder then that after the ball is gone, with no calls made. This is football, not patty cake.
My only point is that according to the rulebook, the penalty was legit. We got stuck with a penalty that would frequently be a non-call, but that doesn't mean the foul didn't occur.
That being said, we might as well forget the whole thing. We won the game, and that is all that really matters.

GibbsRules!
01-02-2005, 08:19 PM
You have to admit that roughing call had to have been one of the worst calls in the entire history of professional football. A 260lb QB, who BTW escaped a sack when charging LB tried to bowl over him with his forearms, falls down simply from being pushed "gently"? C'mon.

Culpepper must have been watching his Bill Laimbeer flops from the Bad Boys days...that was a total acting job, the refs have to differentiate.

lakeskin
01-02-2005, 08:53 PM
We only had 3 penalties - a season low- so i wouldnt be to hard on the officiating. Obvioulsy there will always be errors, but I dont think there were that many egregious ones.

rskinsfan10
01-02-2005, 09:02 PM
My only point is that according to the rulebook, the penalty was legit. We got stuck with a penalty that would frequently be a non-call, but that doesn't mean the foul didn't occur.
That being said, we might as well forget the whole thing. We won the game, and that is all that really matters.

You are right. According the rule book, I suppose it was a legit call. My issue is consistency, and even moreso the rule itself. It is to the point where QBs are being treated like newborns. This is football for crying out loud.

CarMike
01-02-2005, 09:18 PM
Doesn't matter if he fell down or not. He shouldn't have been pushed. Effect has nothing to do with it. If a defensive player just flicks the QB, or pinches his forearm, in that situation, it is roughing. The call was legit.

If thats the case, why wasn't there a flag thrown against the Vikings when Ramsey was already on the ground from being sacked. Then a Vikings player hit Ramsey late. Why wasn't that thrown? Have a reason?

Vonslydog
01-02-2005, 09:47 PM
If thats the case, why wasn't there a flag thrown against the Vikings when Ramsey was already on the ground from being sacked. Then a Vikings player hit Ramsey late. Why wasn't that thrown? Have a reason?
I am not sure which play you are referring to, but if it went down as you describe it, it may have been a non-call. Or the ref might have decided that the defensive player wasn't able to stop his momentum.
Look, I'm not saying that ref's are perfect and they don't miss calls and they don't make mistakes. And I'm not saying that all the rules in the rulebook are perfect and make complete sense. In fact, I DO think sometimes that the rulebook is too restrictive when it comes to protecting QBs and kickers. But I can't change the rulebook, and I can't point out everything I see on my TV to the refs on the field.
I am simply stating that on the ONE particular play that was brought up, ACCORDING TO THE RULEBOOK, it was roughing the passer.

TupaFan
01-02-2005, 11:38 PM
Nothing new. We have had horrible calls all year long.

skins74
01-03-2005, 01:21 AM
We didn't get any long pass interference penalties so I am happy. :)

aREDSKIN
01-03-2005, 03:21 AM
The officiating has been so incompetent over the years I have been sort of immume to it. It amazes me that the NFL dosen't try and do something which obviously is a major, major, major need of upgrading/addressing. I've concluded, after years & years of extreme tonsil shreeking that this continual incompetence, without an performance improvement plan in place, is purposeful and serves a more diabolitical, conspiratorial aim.

nicefellow31
01-03-2005, 03:58 AM
It is easy to sit in your recliner or your stadium seat and criticize the officials. I'm a high school ref in Virginia and I'm here to tell you that officiating a game is not an easy job. I can only imagine what it is like on the pro level with huge, but quick athletes.

flave1969
01-03-2005, 06:38 AM
Ummmmmm.......ok

They suck until they make a bad call that benefits the Skins.

I will be watching to see if they penalize Ty Law this year if he tries to become one with Marvin Harrison.


This is a very good point. With the league the way it is right now. I have not been able to understand the level of physicality the Patriots are allowed too get away with.

flave1969
01-03-2005, 06:47 AM
It is easy to sit in your recliner or your stadium seat and criticize the officials. I'm a high school ref in Virginia and I'm here to tell you that officiating a game is not an easy job. I can only imagine what it is like on the pro level with huge, but quick athletes.


No one is saying it is not hard, but the standard has gotten noticeably worse in my opinion. As fans and players you ask for two things, consistency of calls and common sense. I would be all for the officials thinking for a second before throwing.

On the Roughing the Passer call, the Minnesota commentators were all expecting an intentional grounding call as McNabb had not left the pocket, yet no flag was thrown. I can remember a time when off setting penalties were regular, I have hardly seen them this year. Perhaps clarification should be given.

Coaches are required to speak to the press after a game, it is about time the head ref was as well. They have no accountability at the moment, so I see no incentive to improve.

JoeDaSchmoe
01-03-2005, 11:58 AM
Well, you can say what you want about the rulebook, but I missed the first quarter and had to listen to it on the radio, and Sonny and Sam exploded when this call was made. As soon as the words "roughing the passer" were out of the ref's mouth, Sam screamed "That's a jackass call!" (pardon the French). Sonny didn't get quite as emotional, but he was takling about how that was one of the worst calls he had ever seen until the field goal was kicked.

frankez99
01-03-2005, 12:05 PM
Seems like only LOSING teams make excuses about calls and referees.....hmmmmm....

JoeDaSchmoe
01-03-2005, 12:16 PM
Seems like only LOSING teams make excuses about calls and referees.....hmmmmm....

Remember the tuck rule? Oakland was, what, 11-5?

Spence
01-03-2005, 12:22 PM
My view on the unnecessary roughness call on Cornelius Griffin is that his push of Culpepper was very unecessary, but not very rough. I'm not surprised the call was made. Griffin didn't hurt Culpepper and he didn't intend to hurt Culpepper, but he did shove him down right in front of an official and there was no reason to do it. Griffin was not in mid-flight towards the passer. He could have pulled up. He should have pulled up. It wasn't roughness, but it was unnecessary and I think most officials would have made the same call.

Skinzaholic
01-03-2005, 12:29 PM
We cant forget the Thrash facemask - THAT was by far one of the worst cases of a blind ref then I have ever seen. I understand how difficult it is to make every call - but that was simply rediculous. Poor James was looking the Ref behind him right in the eye while running the other way!

Ole Paul needs to take a look at things this off season.

Vonslydog
01-03-2005, 12:30 PM
Well, you can say what you want about the rulebook, but I missed the first quarter and had to listen to it on the radio, and Sonny and Sam exploded when this call was made. As soon as the words "roughing the passer" were out of the ref's mouth, Sam screamed "That's a jackass call!" (pardon the French). Sonny didn't get quite as emotional, but he was takling about how that was one of the worst calls he had ever seen until the field goal was kicked.
The initial look on the play didn't look like roughing. Another defender (I can't remember which one, but it was a LB I think) hit Culpepper while he was throwing. At first I thought the call was BS too, because I thought that was the hit they were talking about. But when they went back and showed the replay, Griffin CLEARLY pushed Culpepper for no reason after he had thrown the ball. You can probalby find the replay somewhere. It isn't like it was a hard hit or anything, but it was totally unnecessary.

dj_stouty
01-03-2005, 12:49 PM
If you were to poll NFL fans all across the country, I'd venture to bet 99% claim the Refs unfairly and consistantly make bad calls against their favorite team. The other 1% probably read the question wrong...

openallnight
01-03-2005, 01:01 PM
Yea, fans always have predetermined biases especially when analyzing judgement calls. But, this was the 1st season I've ever witnessed a "true" officiating bias against the Redskins. It was evident that the refs were against us following Gibbs complaints to the NFL that got one of their own fired. The clear evidence of the bias was the amount of non-calls that went to our opponents favor ALL year. For example I've never seen so much holding by an OLine as the past 2 weeks by Dallas and Minny and I don't believe a single holding call was made against either team. Let's just hope Gibbs has learned his lesson and will quit complaining to the NFL about the officiating.
If you were to poll NFL fans all across the country, I'd venture to bet 99% claim the Refs unfairly and consistantly make bad calls against their favorite team. The other 1% probably read the question wrong...

golongdude
01-03-2005, 03:20 PM
I hate seeing poor officiating, even when it works in the Skins favor. It's just cheap.

RedskinsDave
01-03-2005, 03:59 PM
Yea, fans always have predetermined biases especially when analyzing judgement calls.

Just because we are paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get us. :D

BTW, I love the avatar. I am quite sure I'm the only person in the stadium with an Olkewicz jersey.

Spence
01-03-2005, 04:05 PM
I am quite sure I'm the only person in the stadium with an Olkewicz jersey.Are you the guy who keeps e-mailing the team about changing the name to the Warsaw Warriors?

Minnesota Mike
01-03-2005, 04:14 PM
For example I've never seen so much holding by an OLine as the past 2 weeks by Dallas and Minny and I don't believe a single holding call was made against either team.

I think it was a holding call that brought back the Vikings TD, wasn't it. Of course holding isn't the right word for it, tackling would have been more appropriate.