Dook loses AGAIN........

[skinsfan44]

Duke Falls To No.7 Wake Forest, 92-89.


Redick pours in 33 points, including five 3-pointers in 13 attempts.


By JENNA FRYER
AP Sports Writer


WINSTON-SALEM, N.C. - The fans didn't storm the court and Wake Forest's players didn't go wild in celebration. Suddenly, beating Duke has become routine.

Chris Paul scored 23 points and Wake Forest withstood a flurry of late 3-pointers to hang on for a 92-89 victory over Duke on Wednesday night.

The seventh-ranked Demon Deacons (18-3, 6-2 Atlantic Coast Conference) have now beaten No. 4 Duke (16-2, 6-2) three straight times at home.

"It's not a crazy, unbelievable upset anymore when we beat a North Carolina or a Duke," Paul said. "That's because we know we can beat anyone as long as we just treat them like anyone else. Don't get too up, don't get on a high horse, just treat them like any other team and we can play with them."

For most of the game, the Demon Deacons appeared headed toward an easy victory as they built a 14-point lead.

But J.J. Redick made a trio of 3-pointers in the final 2:14 and Sean Dockery also hit one as Duke cut it to 90-89 with 3 seconds to play.

"His desire to win could not have been exemplified in any higher fashion, he was magnificent," Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski said, referring to Redick. "His demeanor was the key to bringing us back."

The Blue Devils had to foul and sent Taron Downey to the line with 2 seconds left. For Downey, it was flashbacks to a Jan. 18 game at Florida State when he missed a free throw that would have won the game in regulation. Instead, it went to overtime and the Deacons lost.

"I thought about Florida State, I'm not going to lie," Downey said. "I just stood up there and said, `Please don't let them be short, let them go in."'

Both did to make it 92-89. Duke had one last chance, but Redick's off-balance 3 fell short at the buzzer - denying Duke a much-needed quality win.

"Actually, I thought it was going to bank in for sure," Redick said. "I just left it a little short."

Eric Williams, the ACC player of the week, finished with 19 points and 13 rebounds for Wake Forest. Justin Gray had 16 points and Vytas Danelius had 12.

Redick finished with 33 points and made five 3s in 13 attempts. Shelden Williams had 16 points and 12 rebounds, and Lee Melchionni scored 13.

Duke came into the game with a better record and a higher ranking. But aside from wins over Oklahoma and at North Carolina State, the Blue Devils have yet to fully prove themselves this season.

A win at Wake Forest would have been a step in the right direction.

Instead, the Demon Deacons used tough defense and strong outside shooting to move to 11-0 at home. Wake Forest forced 13 turnovers - eight were steals - had five blocks and outrebounded Duke 44-37.

The Blue Devils have been short on depth most of the season because of injuries and are limiting Shavlik Randolph's playing time as he slowly returns from a bout with mononucleosis. But their bench got even shorter in this one when Daniel Ewing fouled out with 7:22 to play after scoring just five points in 16 minutes.

"We need Daniel to play more and better," Krzyzewski said. "I am really surprised that we had an opportunity to win without Daniel."

Once Ewing was out, Wake Forest was able to open a 14-point lead, but Redick pulled the Blue Devils back into it with his late baskets.

Wake Forest opened up the game early in the second half with an explosive run led by Paul.

With the Demon Deacons leading just 50-49, Eric Williams started the spurt with a basket before Paul scored on three quick possessions. After two jumpers, Paul stole the ball from Redick under the basket, then scrambled up the court to fire an open 3-pointer for a 59-49 lead.

The game seesawed through most of the first half until Wake Forest's Trent Strickland was called for a technical foul for hanging on the rim on a missed dunk with 6:04 to play.

Redick hit the ensuing free throws to tie it at 30, but the call seemed to charge up the Deacons. Downey fired up a 3 for Wake Forest, then Paul jumped onto Ewing in a scrum for a loose ball. Things got testy on the floor, with players from both teams clawing after the ball until the officials separated them.

It led to a lengthy replay review of the battle, with Ewing and Paul each getting called with offsetting technical fouls.

"It was a scrum, and I don't think it should have been a technical," Ewing said. "Players came in from all over, so for me and Paul to get a technical, I don't think we did anything to deserve that."

The call sent the Demon Deacons on a tear and it sent Ewing to the bench for Duke with his third foul. In his absence, Wake Forest rolled out to a nine-point lead following four straight free throws from Eric Williams before DeMarcus Nelson hit a 3 for Duke to cut the Deacons' halftime lead to 45-39.

"They reacted better than us after the scuffle," Redick said. "And Daniel picked up the foul. That's it."

-----------------------

This is starting to become a regular thing with Dook lately.

Losing that is. :lol1:

FEAR THE TURTLE!!!!!!

[CarMike]

Anyone else notice how much of a punk Chris Paul has become? I hate dook as much as the next guy, but what he did to Ewing was uncalled for. Then when Dockery is on the floor, Paul walks by him and says something.

Yet all you hear is how great of a guy Paul is. And how much class he has on and off the court. Yeah right....:rolleyes:

[Skins57]

Next wed is the first DUke-UNC match-up... man I can not wait

[smoak]

Didn't see the game, but this is what happens when you're overrated.

[GolfFreak]

They need to come off cloud nine and back to reality ... I love it when Dook loses.

[RedskinsDave]

Didn't see the game, but this is what happens when you're overrated.

Three point loss to the number 7 team on the road. Yes, you didn't see the game.....

[smoak]

Three point loss to the number 7 team on the road. Yes, you didn't see the game.....

It tooka 3 pt barrage to get them back into within 10. From what I read it wasn't close. In addition, I was referring to the "again" part of the title. I don't hate Dook the way other UNC fans do because I never followed college sports growing up. I'm a newbie.

My unbiased opinion is that why Dook is top 25, they were overrated.

[RedskinRyan]

duke is still a good team, just not great. i hold my breath every time reddick shoots. but yeah, from what i watched of the game, wake forest was in control the whole time. duke/unc already played once this year though.

[smoak]

No they haven't. UNC and Wake played.

[RedskinRyan]

hmmm, i coulda sworn duke beat unc earlier this year, maybe it was nc st

[skinsfan44]

hmmm, i coulda sworn duke beat unc earlier this year, maybe it was nc st

Yes, Dook played NC State on 1/13, but they have not played UNC yet.

UNC plays at Dook on 2/9, and at home on 3/6.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

this game was not as close as the final score indicated.....thanks to some deperation 3's down the stretch, it made the score closer than it shouldve been....

[nyjunc]

this game was not as close as the final score indicated.....thanks to some deperation 3's down the stretch, it made the score closer than it shouldve been....

it was mostly thanks to redick's teammates who shot 8 of 11 from 3 while the "greatest shooter in the history of basketball" shot 5 of 13 from 3.

[RedskinsDave]

Nyjunc, did you see the last two he nailed? They were amazing. Saying the game wasn't as close as the score because of a few late threes means nothing. What if they hit the last one? Oh, that's right, game tied.

[nyjunc]

Nyjunc, did you see the last two he nailed? They were amazing. Saying the game wasn't as close as the score because of a few late threes means nothing. What if they hit the last one? Oh, that's right, game tied.


Did you also see the 2 he missed before he hit the one w/ 2 secs left/ had he hit one about 10 secs earlier it would have given them more time to get off a better shot for the tie. I just don't think his game was as great as 33 points would suggest. He took 23 shots and attempted 9 FTs, 33 points isn't a big deal w/ those attempts. B/c duke lacks depth he plays almost 40 mins a night and takes a ton of shots so his scoring has gone up but his efficiency has decreased.

[Beast56Redskin]

Didn't see the game, but this is what happens when you're overrated.

:lol1:

huh, i didnt know chris paul was a punk either. wonder whats with him...

[Jimreaper007]

Way overrated apparently.....how low can you go?

[Ramsey2Moss]

Nyjunc, did you see the last two he nailed? They were amazing. Saying the game wasn't as close as the score because of a few late threes means nothing. What if they hit the last one? Oh, that's right, game tied.
YOU. STILL. LOST.

[SkinsKY]

Chris Paul was jawing off all night long. Reddick scored a lot of points and hit a clutch one and missed a reprise. Wake had more bodies and cleaned the glass very well. Duke lost.

All of these are true. Duke had a lot of fouls, but now they get a taste of how the other half lives. Wake really needed to put this away, but they alternated between brilliant and mind-numbing plays all night. They are good, but they'd have to catch a hot streak to cut the nets down. Duke stands a good shot if they don't have to run too much and can stay out of foul trouble. I'm glad to see Duke lose. I hate em, but the truth is they almost came back to win a game that should have been locked up with 7+ minutes to go.

[nyjunc]

All of these are true. Duke had a lot of fouls, but now they get a taste of how the other half lives.

It wasn't like it was one sided in Wake's favor w/ the calls like it usually is for duke. BOTH teams shot 23 FTs, duke is so used to getting 90% of the calls that when it's even it seems like the officiating is 1 sided against them.

[padraic]

You got to be kidding me with the overrated stuff, i know there are alot of UM fans on this board but come back to earth, Duke is a real good team they just lack depth because of all the #1 players they send to the NBA. As for UNC its about time they started to do something it has been painfull to watch the last few years and im glad they can get back on track.NOW befor all u Terps fans get all huffy puffy @ me let me say, i like the terps alot Williams is a class coach and Gilchrist went to highschool down the street from me, i also know his mom. I really love ACC basketball its hard because i like a bunch of the teams, i did not go to school at any of them and do not live near any campus, if i had to pick one i guess it would be Tech but im still not use to them as an ACC school. But please stop with the overrated they have earned it.

[padraic]

almost forgot, that was a great game and no doubt that wake was/is the better team but Duke hung in there and could have pulled it out, last time i checked if you win at the end its still a win(Dallas Washington @ X-mas ring a bell)

[nyjunc]

You got to be kidding me with the overrated stuff, i know there are alot of UM fans on this board but come back to earth, Duke is a real good team they just lack depth because of all the #1 players they send to the NBA. As for UNC its about time they started to do something it has been painfull to watch the last few years and im glad they can get back on track.NOW befor all u Terps fans get all huffy puffy @ me let me say, i like the terps alot Williams is a class coach and Gilchrist went to highschool down the street from me, i also know his mom. I really love ACC basketball its hard because i like a bunch of the teams, i did not go to school at any of them and do not live near any campus, if i had to pick one i guess it would be Tech but im still not use to them as an ACC school. But please stop with the overrated they have earned it.


So far they beat a mediocre Mich state team at home and a mediocre OU team at a nutral site, until they beat a good team they are overrated.

[padraic]

I do not like coming to the defense of duke but ask Maryland how good Clemson is? Okalahoma and NC STATE are not that bad and why would you take out Mich State? Take off the Baby blue and white glasses.

[nyjunc]

I do not like coming to the defense of duke but ask Maryland how good Clemson is? Okalahoma and NC STATE are not that bad and why would you take out Mich State? Take off the Baby blue and white glasses.

They haven't beaten 1 good team, just a few mediocre. have you seen MSU play? They are rated so highly b/c they play in a weak conference, MSU's biggest win was probably UCLA and while they may have been a big deal a few years ago it isn't now. NC State is not mediocre they are a BAD team, OU is a decent team but not a big time team. I will give duke credit if they come out of this 4 game stretch 2-2, they are 0-1 and have Tech and Carolina at home and at Maryland. They should be able to beat Tech at home and MD is a winnable game on the road so it comes down to the UNC game. We'll see.

[CarMike]

Clemson? come on dude. Clemson is joke. Even if they did beat Maryland.

Not a good example.

NC State lost to St. Johns for crying out loud.

dook sucks this year. Plain and simple.

[nyjunc]

dook sucks this year. Plain and simple.

I wouldn't say they suc, they just aren't as good as usual and they are not a top 10 team or a legit threat for the Nat'l Title. They are still a decent team that I could see making a sweet 16.

[CarMike]

they suck compared to other dook teams. Hows that?

they don't play away from their high school gym. And won't play good teams outside of the ACC on the other teams home court.

I say they suck! :D

[smoak]

I stand by calling them OVERRATED at #3 in the nation (or was it #2)? Either way I knew they would fall and they did. I'm not saying they are not top 25, but they WERE overrated.

[Jero]

So you say we're overrated? OK. But we're still going to kick your a$$ next Wednesday. That is, if the Duke conspiracy theory that you all swear by continues through the season. BWAHAHAHAHAHAH! :devil2:

With Carolina fans, it's not who plays the better game. It's who takes the least amount of foul shots that declares the winner.

[JoeyTForLife]

Redick is a great player but and arrogant person. All the Duke players and fans are like that. Every player on that team is probably arrogant and selfish. I HATE DUKE!!!

[nyjunc]

So you say we're overrated? OK. But we're still going to kick your a$$ next Wednesday. That is, if the Duke conspiracy theory that you all swear by continues through the season. BWAHAHAHAHAHAH! :devil2:

With Carolina fans, it's not who plays the better game. It's who takes the least amount of foul shots that declares the winner.

Of course you are overrated, you are not a top 10 team but thanks to that creampuff non-conf sched and the easier part of the ACC sched in the first half you only have 2 losses. I'm very confidnet duke will not be a top 10 team soon, they'll definitely be out if they lose to a struggling tech team today.

[padraic]

So far they beat a mediocre Mich state team at home and a mediocre OU team at a nutral site, until they beat a good team they are overrated.


So is the number 2 team in the country good or does this not count like the Mich ST game? Once again im not a big duke fan but you can not call them overrated.

[nyjunc]

So is the number 2 team in the country good or does this not count like the Mich ST game? Once again im not a big duke fan but you can not call them overrated.

it's a rivalry game at home so anything can happen. In Chaepl Hill or on a neutral floor the heels will have little problems w/ duke. The heels played as poorly as they possibly could and duke played their hearts out and it was just a 1 point game.

[padraic]

it's a rivalry game at home so anything can happen. In Chaepl Hill or on a neutral floor the heels will have little problems w/ duke. The heels played as poorly as they possibly could and duke played their hearts out and it was just a 1 point game.


Dude get over it, i guess the hatred runs real deep and will not let you see the truth, i will give you the poor game by UNC but take it like a man. IMO UNC is the better team im only looking for you to say that they are not overratted but i guess you can not do that.

[padraic]

Your boy McCants looked all world tonight. HahAhAhAhAhA

[Jero]

it's a rivalry game at home so anything can happen. In Chaepl Hill or on a neutral floor the heels will have little problems w/ duke. The heels played as poorly as they possibly could and duke played their hearts out and it was just a 1 point game.

nyjunc, you have just confirmed what i've suspected for awhile.

You are delusional.

[Jimreaper007]

Oh boy.....there will be some unhappy campers around here today

[nyjunc]

Dude get over it, i guess the hatred runs real deep and will not let you see the truth, i will give you the poor game by UNC but take it like a man. IMO UNC is the better team im only looking for you to say that they are not overratted but i guess you can not do that.

This doesn't make duke a great team, I have thought all along they were a sweet 16 type team and nothing that happened last night changed my mind. The heels were awful and duke played as well as I have seen them play all year yet it was a 1 point game on the road. It reminds of '92 when duke was #1 and the Heels were around #20 or so and the Heels beat duke by 2 at home. it didn't mean we were a great team just that we had pulled off an upset at home and duke went on to win it all while the Heels lost in the Sweet 16.

nyjunc, you have just confirmed what i've suspected for awhile.

You are delusional.

Delsuional is thinking that duke is a legit title contender. We shall see but I'm still not impressed. If you think duke is better than Carolina based upon an upset win at home then obviously you are delusional.

[smoak]

nyjunc

you really can't debate with people who resort to personal attacks and one liners. i guess we'll have to wait and see come march b/c unc failed to capitalize on an opportunity last night. i like the direction we're headed and i'm already looking forward to playing uconn this weekend.

[Jimreaper007]

Boy this is getting ugly.....

[RedskinsDave]

You guys are the biggest sore losers ever. Duke won. Duke played better. UNC did not play as well. Give some frickin credit.

Smoak, calling someone who continues to call Duke overrated after they beat his team or tries to say Mcnamara is better than Redick regardless of the stats that show otherwise delusional is not a personal attack. Calling him a whiney troll would be a personal attack. Calling him a jealous jaded jerk would be too.

[Jimreaper007]

You guys are the biggest sore losers ever. Duke won. Duke played better. UNC did not play as well. Give some frickin credit.

Smoak, calling someone who continues to call Duke overrated after they beat his team or tries to say Mcnamara is better than Redick regardless of the stats that show otherwise delusional is not a personal attack. Calling him a whiney troll would be a personal attack. Calling him a jealous jaded jerk would be too.

:lol1:

[ShaggySkins]

Look I'm a MD fan and I hate Duke and UNC both. I watched the game last night and UNC just didn't play their game. Duke made them play more half court offense then they are comfortable doing and slowed down their running game. If they played again would UNC win??? Maybe. But last night Duke was the better team PERIOD. When it comes down to March Madness or ACC Tournament it doesn't matter which team is ranked higher or who is the more talented team. So regardless of how "Overrated" Duke may be, they outplayed u guys and they outhustled u guys. Take the loss in stride and let it go, its not like you guys won't play them a second time.

[Jero]

nyjunc

you really can't debate with people who resort to personal attacks and one liners. i guess we'll have to wait and see come march b/c unc failed to capitalize on an opportunity last night. i like the direction we're headed and i'm already looking forward to playing uconn this weekend.

Hold on, where's that laughing out loud smiley...

Oh, yeah, here it is:

:lol1:

You're right, Smoak. That's all i do-resort to "personal attacks" and "one liners" in my debates...

:lol1:

[nyjunc]

You guys are the biggest sore losers ever. Duke won. Duke played better. UNC did not play as well. Give some frickin credit.

Smoak, calling someone who continues to call Duke overrated after they beat his team or tries to say Mcnamara is better than Redick regardless of the stats that show otherwise delusional is not a personal attack. Calling him a whiney troll would be a personal attack. Calling him a jealous jaded jerk would be too.

I asked you duke fans to give me the examples of when redick has hit GW or cluch shots, you did not do that b/c it is not possible. Just like everyone throws outt he stats to say JJ is the best shooter in the County(though the #s say he is nowhere near the top) you can throw away #s when comparing Mcnamara and redick. McNamar has hit a ton of clutch shots and GW shots while JJ ahs not and I'd be much more afraid if gerry was shooting than JJ in a big spot.

I gave duke credit, I said they outplayed us but this debate is about the overrated Redick.

[skinsfan44]

Dook loses again and again. :lol1:

That's 3 in a row, dookies.

Maryland has exposed a weakness in Dook.

No depth.

FEAR THE TURTLE

[ShaggySkins]

I asked you duke fans to give me the examples of when redick has hit GW or cluch shots, you did not do that b/c it is not possible. Just like everyone throws outt he stats to say JJ is the best shooter in the County(though the #s say he is nowhere near the top) you can throw away #s when comparing Mcnamara and redick. McNamar has hit a ton of clutch shots and GW shots while JJ ahs not and I'd be much more afraid if gerry was shooting than JJ in a big spot.

I gave duke credit, I said they outplayed us but this debate is about the overrated Redick.

I'm going to chime in on this debate with my two cents comparing Redick and McNamara. This is how I see it, Gerry is a slightly better offensive player then Redick. He is a much stronger ball handler and passer and a near equal shooter although I think Redick has more range. The difference between the two is defense. Redick although he is nothing more then an average defensive player is still a better player on defense then Mcnamara whose biggest knock is his ability to play defense due to his size and speed. Mcnamara rarely gets exposed on these problems because he plays in Boeheim's 2-3 stretch zone defense. But that is also what is going to keep Mcnamara out of the NBA is the fact that he is a bad defender in man to man despite his offensive talents. Redick is not a good defender but he is average and is a smart defender who isn't caught out of position too often (from what I've seen he mostly gets beat by more physical or better athletes but not because he is out of position). McNamara has shown an ability to really lift his team on the offensive end and carry a team to a victory which Redick has not done as consistently. Given the choice I would still take Redick based solely on the fact that he is not a COMPLETE liabilty on defense and you can play him in a man to man defense.

[padraic]

You got to be kidding me with the overrated stuff, i know there are alot of UM fans on this board but come back to earth, Duke is a real good team they just lack depth because of all the #1 players they send to the NBA. As for UNC its about time they started to do something it has been painfull to watch the last few years and im glad they can get back on track.NOW befor all u Terps fans get all huffy puffy @ me let me say, i like the terps alot Williams is a class coach and Gilchrist went to highschool down the street from me, i also know his mom. I really love ACC basketball its hard because i like a bunch of the teams, i did not go to school at any of them and do not live near any campus, if i had to pick one i guess it would be Tech but im still not use to them as an ACC school. But please stop with the overrated they have earned it.


Well i guess i got me some humbel pie to enjoy, i still think duke is a good team but they have some proboblems big ones, so everyone knows i was very much in techs corner last night and i'm very happy. im still not use to tech as an ACC school but what a win.

[smoak]

Congrats VT fans!

[MONK_in_HOF]

I asked you duke fans to give me the examples of when redick has hit GW or cluch shots, you did not do that b/c it is not possible. Just like everyone throws outt he stats to say JJ is the best shooter in the County(though the #s say he is nowhere near the top) you can throw away #s when comparing Mcnamara and redick. McNamar has hit a ton of clutch shots and GW shots while JJ ahs not and I'd be much more afraid if gerry was shooting than JJ in a big spot.

I gave duke credit, I said they outplayed us but this debate is about the overrated Redick.

I don't care for UNC or Duke, especially since they always rake in the top notch recruits. However I agree with you on this. No doubt reddick is a good shooter but the only thing he can be called the best at is FT. I know this is an opinionated topic, but so many people in the media and elsewhere just think he is the best shooter ever b/c dickie V is in love w/ him. I can't recall a game winning shot by him either, and ALL of their games are on tv and I am always watching rooting against them.

[techskinsfan]

screw duke.....GO HOKIES...a couple more wins and a few acc tourney wins and the hokies could make it hard for the selection committee to turn them away after that win...this place went crazy last night fellas...not quite like umd did...but it was awesome...i just wish my tix wouldnt have fell thru and i coulda been there

[RedskinsDave]

Ouch.

[IowaSkinsFan]

I asked you duke fans to give me the examples of when redick has hit GW or cluch shots, you did not do that b/c it is not possible. Just like everyone throws outt he stats to say JJ is the best shooter in the County(though the #s say he is nowhere near the top) you can throw away #s when comparing Mcnamara and redick. McNamar has hit a ton of clutch shots and GW shots while JJ ahs not and I'd be much more afraid if gerry was shooting than JJ in a big spot.

I gave duke credit, I said they outplayed us but this debate is about the overrated Redick.

Is 'clutch shots' an official stat? How do you quantify that?

If Redick makes more of his shots early, he doesn't have to hit the clutch shots later, right?

[nyjunc]

Is 'clutch shots' an official stat? How do you quantify that?

If Redick makes more of his shots early, he doesn't have to hit the clutch shots later, right?

big time players are defined by what they do in the clutch, would Michael Jordan be considered as great as he is if he didn't hit a million GW shots? Redick only scores alot b/c he shoots alot, last night was a typical redick night. His point total looked good but he shot 38% from 3 and 44% overall which isn't good. He actually hit a somewhat clutch shot w/ that 3 w/ 30 secs left but he missed 2 open mid range jumpers that could have been the difference in the last 2 mins.

[RedskinsDave]

big time players are defined by what they do in the clutch, would Michael Jordan be considered as great as he is if he didn't hit a million GW shots? Redick only scores alot b/c he shoots alot, last night was a typical redick night.

So those stats I posted that show he has a great shooting percentage are bogus? Come on guy, get over him.

Someone did a study and Jordan missed more game winners than he made.

[nyjunc]

So those stats I posted that show he has a great shooting percentage are bogus? Come on guy, get over him.


Where dod you post stats that he had a grat shooting %? You posted stats that show he has a higher shooting % than McNamara but no stats that show he has a great shooting %. He shot 40% from 3 in his fresh and soph years and this year he is shooting under 42% and that % has been going down recently. JJ is currently 4th in 3 pt shooting in the ACC and nowhere to be found among the FG % leaders. If he is the "best shooter" in the Country shouldn't he at least lead his conference? JJ isb't even the leading FT shooter in the ACC anymore.

Someone did a study and Jordan missed more game winners than he made.

That's ok, he made a ton and he made a ton in big games, it''s unrealistic to expect him to hit every GW shot attempt but I bet his % was pretty high.

[RedskinsDave]

42% from 3 is great to me. He's taken twice the number of free throws as McCray and is 1/100th of a percent lower so that argument doesn't hold water.

[GibbsRules!]

JJ Redick didn't lose this game for Dook. As usual, he didn't win it when the opportunity presented itself. The fact that Daniel Ewing took Dooks last two shots should tell you all you need to know. Great players find ways to create their own shots when the game is on the line.

Redick is great shooter. That's as far as it goes. The rest of his game is OK.

Reggie Miller was on ESPN Radio the other day and was asked whose hands he wanted the ball in with the game on the line. Given the option of Jerry West, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson and I can't remember who else, Reggie quickly replied MJ. Reggie said he'd want Jordan to take it even if it was a three. This coming from one of the great clutch shooters of our time and one heckuva 3pt shooter. Mark Jackson didn't hesitate to say the same thing.

[nyjunc]

42% from 3 is great to me. He's taken twice the number of free throws as McCray and is 1/100th of a percent lower so that argument doesn't hold water.

If 42% was "grat" then so mnay players would not be able to achieve that #. 42% is good not great, it's hard to be considered great when you aren't even top 3 in your 11 team conference.

[RedskinsDave]

Did someone call him the greatest shooter ever or are you just that thick? You Duke haters are fun to watch. Redick could save you from drowning and you'd probably claim your were taking a bath.

[nyjunc]

Did someone call him the greatest shooter ever or are you just that thick? You Duke haters are fun to watch. Redick could save you from drowning and you'd probably claim your were taking a bath.

Yes, many "experts" who don't watch him regularly. You can't back up any argument that he is a great shooter or that he hits clutch shots. I asked you 2 weeks agao to list the big shots or GW shots that he has hit and you ignored my repeated request b/c there aren't any for yo to list. Now you are calling hima gerat shooter when the #s suggest otherwise. Where is the proof that he is a great shooter? 40% his first 2 years and under 42% this year(and declining) are not examples of "great" shooting espcially when he doesn't have the clutch shots to go w/ it. If he was shooting those %'s and he had 4 or 5 GW shots then I could buy it but that's not the case.

This has nothing to do w/ being a "duke hater", this has to do w/ reality. it's annoying to listen to Vitale and others go nuts over JJ when he hasn't backed up all that praise. He scores alot b/c he shoots more than anyone else, if Rashad McCants took as many shots as JJ he would easily lead the ACC in scoring. Rashad takes 11 shots/game while JJ takes 16, Rashad shoots 50% from the field while JJ shoots 41%. JJ is a good shooter, he's a good player. He is NOT a great shooter or great player.

[Axegrinder]

I love this thread.
Not because Duke lost,but because of the passion on both sides.
Keep up the good work! :)

[whitskins]

JJ Redick didn't lose this game for Dook. As usual, he didn't win it when the opportunity presented itself. The fact that Daniel Ewing took Dooks last two shots should tell you all you need to know. Great players find ways to create their own shots when the game is on the line.


I'm not gonna argue whether Reddick is "clutch" or not cause I don't watch enough Duke to know honestly, but that kind of criticism does not apply to last night's game.

Reddick DID make the clutch shot when he hit the three to put his team up two, then they gave up a three to Va Tech. Then Reddick got the inbounds pass with seconds left, was immediately and obviously double teamed, and passed the ball to Ewing who had a WIDE OPEN three point attempt.

Reddick may or may not be clutch but in the last two Duke possessions he couldn't have done any better. The "create his own shot" thing would clearly not have worked, he was blanketed and made the smart pass to a wide open teammate, Ewing just missed it.

[RedskinsDave]

And NYjunk, I asked you to tell me how many games Duke lost by three or less and whether he missed a final shot. You gave me nothing. He hit the shot he was asked to hit last night and he shoots threes and makes foul shots as well as anyone in college ball. THAT makes him a great shooter.

[suppitty]

And NYjunk, I asked you to tell me how many games Duke lost by three or less and whether he missed a final shot. You gave me nothing. He hit the shot he was asked to hit last night and he shoots threes and makes foul shots as well as anyone in college ball. THAT makes him a great shooter.
Last year in the ACC tournament final he missed an open look that could have won the game in the closing seconds. The game went to overtime and we all know who won that game. He is a great shooter, but not one of the best ever like some people say. I'm not sure how he has maintained that 40% average because every acc game i see he is 3 of 10 from 3.

[nyjunc]

Reddick DID make the clutch shot when he hit the three to put his team up two, then they gave up a three to Va Tech. Then Reddick got the inbounds pass with seconds left, was immediately and obviously double teamed, and passed the ball to Ewing who had a WIDE OPEN three point attempt.

I mentioned that earlier, that was the most clutch shot I have ever seen redick hit BUT he missed 2 10 footers w/in the last 2-3 mins that would have been huge for duke. He also did a good job of getting Ewing an open 3 for the GW, it was a good decision not to force it. That's all the complimenting of redick I can handle. :)

And NYjunk, I asked you to tell me how many games Duke lost by three or less and whether he missed a final shot. You gave me nothing.

"NYjunk"? wow! that's creative :rolleyes: Come on I know you can do better than that. I don't have all of his big misses committed to memory(there are alot) but I have 2 big ones, he missed a WIDE open 3 in the ACC Championship Game that would have won it for duke and he missed a huge wide open 3 against UConn in the FF as well as driving to the basket and getting blocked all in the final minute. I know there are many more but those are the 2 that stand out which are 2 more examples than you gave me.

Also, outside of 1st rd NCAA Tourney games check his Tourney #s the past 2 years. They are horrible, he does great against the 14,15,16 seed type but as the competition gets stronger JJ wilts.

He hit the shot he was asked to hit last night and he shoots threes and makes foul shots as well as anyone in college ball. THAT makes him a great shooter.

He makes FTs better than anybody in CBB, he's a great FT shooter. He's not a great 3 point shooter, the #s prove that.

I'm not sure how he has maintained that 40% average because every acc game i see he is 3 of 10 from 3.

Every year he is really hot in the non-conf schedule and he coms into ACC play around 45% and higher but it keeps going down and down until he has reached 40 which is probably where he will end up this year.

[GibbsRules!]

Redick fans, take your blinders off. He still has time to prove he can be clutch, but as of now, he hasn't. Big difference between a great clutch shooter and a great shooter. Dante Calabria was a better clutch shooter than Redick. Redick doesn't hold a candle to MacNamara. You can't even draw a comparison:

McNamara clutches up for Orange

It's hard to lose 50 busloads of people from Scranton, Pa., but among 33,199 people, it's also hard to stand out. That's because all of these people who have piled into the Carrier Dome this night seemingly have a singular identity: They love their Syracuse Orange; more specifically, they love Gerry McNamara.

He is the favorite son of Scranton, the adopted son of Syracuse. And in front of this huge crowd in early February, the Orange is playing Notre Dame, the favorite team of many in McNamara's Irish Catholic-heavy hometown.

So this is the show he puts on: He misses a 3-pointer. And another and another and another and another. The only first half basket for the guy with range from 25-plus feet is a layup. He misses a jumper coming off a screen. He misses a pull-up. On a dribble stop-and-pop move from the top of the key, McNamara hits nothing but net -- the outside of the net.

Wait, wait, wait.

That's not how you tell a Gerry McNamara story, by examining every shot, by studying a stat line. Hakim Warrick is the team's best player, but it is McNamara who gives Syracuse its verve. Many regard Duke's J.J. Redick as the nation's best shooter, but of anyone, it is McNamara whom you would want taking the shot that you just have to make.

To understand his value, you need to fast-forward to crunch time -- like to the second half of that game against the Irish, when he scored 12 points in the final 4:14 as Syracuse erased an 11-point deficit. Or rewind to a game against the Irish in his freshman season two years ago, when he made a game-winning 3 in the closing seconds. Or pause to reflect on how he has saved his best moments for the NCAA Tournament, such as when he made six 3-pointers in one half against Kansas in the 2003 national title game. Or last year, when he made nine 3s and scored 43 points in a first-round win over BYU.

"Gerry likes the bright lights," says Syracuse assistant Mike Hopkins. "He doesn't get up the same for Canisius. But if it's a big game or a big moment, it's like, 'Here comes the show.' "

That's how you tell the story of a growing legend.

Source (http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/3396138)

The so called Redick legend is a long way in the making...

[RedskinsDave]

So you'd rather have a guy miss all his shots during the game in order to set up a close game and hit the game winner? Interesting but I'd rather have my guy make those 6 or 7 during the game so there's no need for a game winning shot.

[suppitty]

So you'd rather have a guy miss all his shots during the game in order to set up a close game and hit the game winner? Interesting but I'd rather have my guy make those 6 or 7 during the game so there's no need for a game winning shot.
I'd rather have a guy who can do something other than shoot. Like maybe go hard to the basket and score in traffic. Maybe someone who can rebound, or pass, or play some defense.

[RedskinsDave]

I'd rather have a guy who can do something other than shoot. Like maybe go hard to the basket and score in traffic. Maybe someone who can rebound, or pass, or play some defense.

Good, so you wouldn't want Mcnamara either.

[whitskins]

I have no real allegiances here but I'll just add fuel to the fire and point out G-Mac's two airballs from three that could have tied the game against BC tonight. He did make one big shot to get it within two though.

Personally I was pulling for the Cuse but G-Mac did not bring the heroics tonight in a very big game.

[suppitty]

Good, so you wouldn't want Mcnamara either.
I never said anything about McNamara, but i would take him over Redick because he is clutch, and can run a team.

[nyjunc]

I have no real allegiances here but I'll just add fuel to the fire and point out G-Mac's two airballs from three that could have tied the game against BC tonight. He did make one big shot to get it within two though.

Personally I was pulling for the Cuse but G-Mac did not bring the heroics tonight in a very big game.

he was great in getting SU back in the game(he put them on his back for a stretch wher he scored 8-10 poitns in a row) but he forced shots in the final minute shooting 2 airballs and barely grazing the rim on the 3rd shot. That doesn't take away from all his big games in the past just like redick's great game last night doesn't erase all his failures in big games.

[Gump84]

Please, tell me which of the following 3 you'd prefer on your team. Note, the first 2 are the only ones you really hear about:

J.J. Reddick:

150 FG in 356 attempts, 140 Free throws in 150 attempts, 89 3's in 210 attempts. 23ppg (529 total points)

Broken down: 42.13% from the field, 93.3333% FTs, 42.38% 3's.

Gerry McNamara

131 FG in 345 attempts, 87 FT in 102 attempts, 88 3's in 261 attempts. 16.2ppg (437 total points)

Broken down: 37.97% from the field, 85.29% FTs, 33.71% 3's


Salim Stoudamire

157 FG in 293 attempts, 80 FT in 87 attempts, 89 3's in 159 attempts. 18.6ppg (483 total points)

Broken down: 53.58% from the field, 91.95% FTs, 55.97% 3's


Let's do this another way:

Redick has 389 points (non-FT) in 356 shots for an average of 1.092 points per shot taken.

McNamera has 350 points (non-FT) in 345 shots for an average of 1.014 points per shot taken

Stoudamire has 403 points (non-FT) in 293 shots for an average of 1.375 points per shot taken



Conclusions:

J.J. Redick = Overrated but still good
McNamera = Vastly overrated
Stoudamire = By FAR the best shooter in College Basketball

[whitskins]

By my logic Stoudamire needs to be shooting more!

I like G-Mac as a player but I think to a degree he is still living off that incredible first half he had in the championship game as a frosh.

[RedskinsDave]

I knew the haters would never give JJ credit for last night......

[nyjunc]

I knew the haters would never give JJ credit for last night......

Go check the "How's this for a rebound?" thread.

[828791Redskins]

And NYjunk, I asked you to tell me how many games Duke lost by three or less and whether he missed a final shot. You gave me nothing. He hit the shot he was asked to hit last night and he shoots threes and makes foul shots as well as anyone in college ball. THAT makes him a great shooter.
Not to mention he's the all time leader in Free Throw pecentage.That pretty much qualifies him as a great shooter.

[nyjunc]

Not to mention he's the all time leader in Free Throw pecentage.That pretty much qualifies him as a great shooter.

That would make him a great FT shooter not a great 3 pt shooter. Great 3 pt shooters don't shoot 41% and his 41% this year is the best of his 3 years.

[828791Redskins]

That would make him a great FT shooter not a great 3 pt shooter. Great 3 pt shooters don't shoot 41% and his 41% this year is the best of his 3 years.
He takes bad shots a lot thats why his % is low.He always has the best defender on him all the time too.Only duke haters think JJ Redick isn't one of the greatest shooters in the NCAA.

[Jimreaper007]

JJ will be another bum pro who tanks like the majority of duke players. Only a few actually matched their hype.

[828791Redskins]

JJ will be another bum pro who tanks like the majority of duke players. Only a few actually matched their hype.
Carolina fans always want to talk about the NBA and what there players did there.Why don't you go watch your precious NBA.Let's talk NCAA Championships Coach K 3,Dean Smith 2,Gary Williams 1.