Now I know it is Lenny the hut but

[Skins57]

this is what I expected out of Samuels and company. I just do not believe that Chris was sooo eager to redo his deal. I hope it gets done but I have my doubts

ESPN's Len Pasquarelli reports the Washington Redskins continue to make no headway in their attempts to ameliorate the fat cap charge for left OT Chris Samuels. The team would like to lower the cap value by extending his contract, but Samuels and agent Jimmy Sexton don't seem inclined to finish a deal.

[2Cooley]

well.....

[akhhorus]

It is Don Vito, but Jimmy Sexton threatened this went the Skins traded for Brunell last offseason. Samuels is gone. Deal with it. I just hope the Skins can get a low first/early second rounder for him.

[Dexter72]

It is Don Vito, but Jimmy Sexton threatened this went the Skins traded for Brunell last offseason. Samuels is gone. Deal with it. I just hope the Skins can get a low first/early second rounder for him.

That and a replacement. Damn I hope Walter Jones doesn't get tagged, otherwise I guess the next best guy is Jonas Jennings...I don't know about that.

Not really surprised by all this with Samuels.

[akhhorus]

That and a replacement. Damn I hope Walter Jones doesn't get tagged, otherwise I guess the next best guy is Jonas Jennings...I don't know about that.

Not really surprised by all this with Samuels.

PFW is saying that they think Jennings will be tagged. Brad Hopkins if he gets cut would be a good choice. Jones, if he isnt tagged would be a good option.
Some other names to consider:
Ryan Diem
Kareem McKenzie
Victor Rodgers
Bob Whitfield

[Dexter72]

PFW is saying that they think Jennings will be tagged. Brad Hopkins if he gets cut would be a good choice. Jones, if he isnt tagged would be a good option.
Some other names to consider:
Ryan Diem
Kareem McKenzie
Victor Rodgers
Bob Whitfield

From those 4, I'd say Diem next. That would be a guaranteed 8 mill for Jennings if he is tagged...seems like a pretty high price.

[akhhorus]

From those 4, I'd say Diem.

Yeah, he wont get the attention the others get, but he's a solid tackle. You could get him for 5 years-14 million+3 million bonus.

[ConradCountry]

If he does go then we trade him grab a late 1st rd pick or early 2nd grab a replacement like Khalif Barnes and get a FA to start until the rookie is ready.

[aREDSKIN]

Par for the course for that POS agent Jimmy Sexton & Samuels. It's really not a surpriise to me that they deal this way, especially given what happen last year with Ramsey, Gibbs, Sexton & Samuels and all their threats & demands. Good riddence Samuels. Your performance has been just plain putrid for many games/years now. We'll take our cap hit because of the front office's incompetence and move on. Good luck with your new team becasue I for one am glad you won't be back. You've been one of the most overpaid & underperforming player's, at a critical position, for the Skins in recent memory IMO. I can see no way any team with their eyes open, especially given your on field performance, who would give you a contract you and JS would demand.

[Jimreaper007]

It is Don Vito, but Jimmy Sexton threatened this went the Skins traded for Brunell last offseason. Samuels is gone. Deal with it. I just hope the Skins can get a low first/early second rounder for him.


If you are right value is the key. Considering he is an all pro starting left tackle a second rounder is not a good return. The skins would have to either get a starting left tackle (who is good) in return or a low first round pick.

[CarMike]

Samuels has underperformed for the past couple of years. Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya Chris.

I won't miss him a bit.

[hail2skins]

I thought Samuels played ok this year. Sort of a start of a comeback year for him. With Buges at the helm, he should get better. Now, the contract is another story.

[Jimreaper007]

Samuels has underperformed for the past couple of years. Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya Chris.

I won't miss him a bit.


You're right...we won't miss him until Ramsey starts off the next season looking out of his earhole because some rookie or a guy with half of samuels talent is getting beat like a steel drum?


If Samuels walks or is traded our drafting and free agent priorities will have to change. What good is a Wide Reciever if the QB has no time to throw?

[CarMike]

Ramsey is already used to looking out of his ear hole. Whats the difference if we have CS or not?

Its all the same either way. Chris hasn't played well lately.

[dogfight6]

I hope the bum won't redu his contract, as I have said a dozen times the guy is a bust as a left tackle. I just hope some team out there is dumb enough to trade for him. Ramsey deserves a year that he doesn't worry about his blind side.

[redskin_rich]

Ramsey is already used to looking out of his ear hole. Whats the difference if we have CS or not?

Its all the same either way. Chris hasn't played well lately.
Chris played a little better the last half of this season but for his money we should have the best LT in the NFL. If he doesn't see a need to restructure or extend his contract to a more reasonable level, than he gets replaced.

[Counter Trey]

Now is as good of a time to ditch Samuels as ever. If he's not willing to restructure or extend his contract, I think he's pretty much saying that he doesn't want to be here either. We can probably pick up a far less expensive free agent and get similar results...

[Jimreaper007]

If the Front Office decides to trade him they had better get value is all I'm saying.

[padraic]

Are we just unlucky, did something happen that this guy got so much money and then sucked so bad. Im so over this team just blowing money left and right on people and players who are not working out, could we use the money that Chris was going to get to resigen smoot? I know fred is asking for a bunch but i got to think he has earned it.

[aREDSKIN]

Realistically, I wonder what the "value" of CS really is. Probably, a second & a 3rd or 4th? I can't see anyone parting with a 1st for him. JMO.

[Jimreaper007]

Realistically, I wonder what the "value" of CS really is. Probably, a second & a 3rd or 4th? I can't see anyone parting with a 1st for him. JMO.



I wouldn't go that low.....and I cannot help but think that this move (if it happens) will destabilize our line (if we do not get a reputable LT in return) and cause the offense to crap out again.

[Skins3]

Samuals was our best o-linemen last year and most of you say we need to upgrade the o-line and you are all ready to get rid of the best o-lineman we had last year I cant understand just like half of you were ready to throw Lavar to the wolves

With that said and if it is an absolute must we get rid of Samuals I know that Minnesota wants D but maybe we can get moss for samuals if we cant get moss keep Samuals

[Counter Trey]

Samuels at best imo would get us a 2nd rounder. TO last year was traded for a 2nd rounder originally last year. If we can get a 2nd or 3rd for him, I say pull the trigger and trade him.

[redskin_rich]

I wouldn't go that low.....and I cannot help but think that this move (if it happens) will destabilize our line (if we do not get a reputable LT in return) and cause the offense to crap out again.
Don't worry, if Samuels is shown the door, Gibbs will get a vet to replace him.

[padraic]

No to Moss, he might have been the best but that is still not saying much.

[Counter Trey]

Samuals was our best o-linemen last year and most of you say we need to upgrade the o-line and you are all ready to get rid of the best o-lineman we had last year

I personally think the Randy Thomas, though he had an off year, was our best O-lineman. I do think we need to upgrade our offensive line and getting rid of Samuels and his huge salary would be an upgrade. We can get a lot cheaper veteran LT through free agency and get similar results.

[fent]

if we can get a low first/high second for him, sign walter jones (or similar player) and take baas with that extra pick, we're sitting pretty on the line...jones, dockery, baas, thomas, and jansen...after they mesh, that's not looking too bad

[Houskin3]

I hope we can get a 2nd for him and draft the OT from Syracuse, Adam Terry. I think he has the makings of being one of those 10 yr starters and would be a perfect hog if he can add alittle more bulk between now and September.

[akhhorus]

If you are right value is the key. Considering he is an all pro starting left tackle a second rounder is not a good return. The skins would have to either get a starting left tackle (who is good) in return or a low first round pick.

If he was an all pro this past season, you're right. But he hasnt been one in awhile. Also consider that always seems to be injured, and a high second rounder sounds pretty good.

[bwparker]

WOW, I am suprised at quickly everyone is ready to throw Samuels to the side over a rumor. I personally think we need time for our O-line to develop chemestry, with Jansen coming back and (hopefully) a new center there is too much of a shake up happening already. I don't want THREE new offensive linement this year..thats not continuity

[Dexter72]

I personally think the Randy Thomas, though he had an off year, was our best O-lineman. I do think we need to upgrade our offensive line and getting rid of Samuels and his huge salary would be an upgrade. We can get a lot cheaper veteran LT through free agency and get similar results.

I agree that Randy Thomas was the best; and Samuels would have been 3rd out of 5 if Jansen had been healthy. It's interesting, in Gibbs final press conference he said something like "Samuel's been working his butt off"...which I interpret to mean that he was playing hard, but necessarily playing real well.

The TO trade is not a good measure for what Samuels is worth...the majority of teams were scared of him because of his antics...I think Samuels could get you a really low first or a 2nd and a 4th or 5th, depending on how high the 2nd is.

[akhhorus]

WOW, I am suprised at quickly everyone is ready to throw Samuels to the side over a rumor. I personally think we need time for our O-line to develop chemestry, with Jansen coming back and (hopefully) a new center there is too much of a shake up happening already. I don't want THREE new offensive linement this year..thats not continuity

We cannot afford to keep Samuels. Simple as that.

[Skins57]

I am personally hoping like heck we resign him, Chris played better this year under Buges and I really do not want to worry about signing another player.
Couple of ways to look at this

I really want CS to stay, as I think we need to keep this line together as I believe the talent is there. Add JAnsen to the mix and the line is 3 times better already, add a decent center to the mix and we could be set.

The other way to see this, we are going to have to rid ourselves of some of these huge contracts in the next few years anyway so lets just trade Chris and get something for him instead of just cutting him.

I also think the biggest thing to remember is this .

The was written by Lenny the Hut, so it is very possible there is not an ounce of credibility in thsi at all... most likely isn't

[bwparker]

We cannot afford to keep Samuels. Simple as that.
I grant you that. At his current price. But I'd rather hope for a cap-friendly re-nogiated contract, then almost any trade that is LIKELY to happen.

[akhhorus]

I grant you that. At his current price. But I'd rather hope for a cap-friendly re-nogiated contract, then almost any trade that is LIKELY to happen.

I dont think he will. Sexton threatened that Samuels wouldnt agree to a new one because the Skins got Brunell. His other big Redskins client is Ramsey. And why should he? They know someone will deal for him and they can get a big deal out of them; something he wont get here.

[bwparker]

Yeah...but...maybe...*sigh*...fine.

[Dexter72]

I don't want THREE new offensive linement this year..thats not continuity

Its not continuity but I'd rather have better play...The O-Line was a big time weakness last year. The pass protection was mediocre and the Skins weren't taking deep shot...Ramsey/Brunell got sacked 38 times and usually weren't holding the ball very long. If Gibbs had tried to throw downfield more often (like most teams), they would have given up 50+ sacks. That sucks. All of them save for Thomas (and Jansen) need to go.

[akhhorus]

Its not continuity but I'd rather have better play...The O-Line was a big time weakness last year. The pass protection was mediocre and the Skins weren't taking deep shot...Ramsey/Brunell got sacked 38 times and usually weren't holding the ball very long. If Gibbs had tried to throw downfield more often (like most teams), they would have given up 50+ sacks. That sucks. All of them save for Thomas (and Jansen) need to go.

Yeah, Samuels was a Pro Bowler, but he's been beaten regularly for the last couple years. Some of that is the Spurrier experiment, but some of it is CS. Also keep in mind that trading Samuels will save the Skins 13 million in salary over two seasons.

[redskin_rich]

Yeah...but...maybe...*sigh*...fine.
Welcome to hR.

Unfortunatly, a lot of tough decisions have to be made; Samuels, Smoot. We will never improve if we keep overpaying.

[Counter Trey]

The TO trade is not a good measure for what Samuels is worth...the majority of teams were scared of him because of his antics...I think Samuels could get you a really low first or a 2nd and a 4th or 5th, depending on how high the 2nd is.

I agree with the "antics" concerning TO and that being the reason he was traded for a 2nd round pick.
The reason I feel Samuels will not go get us any higher than a 2nd is - unless another team first comes to an agreement with Samuels to a long term contract they would be parting with a 1st or early 2nd for someone who will be an unrestricted free agent next year. Plus what team would want to get an average at best LT for one year and have his cap hit beinging around the 10 million dollar range that you could spend on more productive players. Unless I'm wrong here but if Samuels is traded wouldn't the other team take his rediculous cap hit?

[akhhorus]

I agree with the "antics" concerning TO and that being the reason he was traded for a 2nd round pick.
The reason I feel Samuels will not go get us any higher than a 2nd is - unless another team first comes to an agreement with Samuels to a long term contract they would be parting with a 1st or early 2nd for someone who will be an unrestricted free agent next year. Plus what team would want to get an average at best LT for one year and have his cap hit beinging around the 10 million dollar range that you could spend on more productive players. Unless I'm wrong here but if Samuels is traded wouldn't the other team take his rediculous cap hit?

They would just owe his base salary over the next two years, about 13 million over those years. But you have to think if you're gonna trade for him you would also work out an extention.

[Counter Trey]

They would just owe his base salary over the next two years, about 13 million over those years. But you have to think if you're gonna trade for him you would also work out an extention.

Ok, that sounds not as bad as what I thought it would be. Hopefully if he leaves we can get something good in return.

[akhhorus]

Ok, that sounds not as bad as what I thought it would be. Hopefully if he leaves we can get something good in return.

Sexton has met with Snyder & Gibbs 3 or 4 times already and no progress has been reported. I think if they will deal him it will happen quickly: they will have the deal worked out by the beginning of Free agency.

[2Cooley]

WOW, I am suprised at quickly everyone is ready to throw Samuels to the side over a rumor. I personally think we need time for our O-line to develop chemestry, with Jansen coming back and (hopefully) a new center there is too much of a shake up happening already. I don't want THREE new offensive linement this year..thats not continuity


Jansen would not be considered new and who says if we get rid of samules that we wont replace him with that jim Molinaro witch would make it only one new linemen

[bwparker]

Jansen would not be considered new and who says if we get rid of samules that we wont replace him with that jim Molinaro witch would make it only one new linemen
I would consider Jansen new, because he didn't play last year(although it should take him less time to integrate because he went through training camp last year).

As far as replacing Samuels with a backup...You're right HE wouldn't be a new person, but we were talking about trading Samuels and getting his replacement through free agency.

Side Note: If Gibbs and Buges felt like Molinaro was good enough and ready to start LT(and IF they were right.) that would be frickin sweet.

[DUCKIN_TACKLERS]

Can someone tell me if Chris goes do they have enough confidence in one of the 2 rookies drafted. and who would be interested in him through a trade.also if his value has dropped considerably why would he want out of D.C. where he is more likely to get a bigger deal.maybe this is the front office playing hardball with the Hard headed.

[techskinsfan]

what about save some money and work in molinaro or wilson

[redskin_rich]

what about save some money and work in molinaro or wilson
Not at LT, we will need a vet.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

i would have liked to keep chris.....but if he cant restucture, he needs to go. im kind of glad though because hopefully we can get better value for our money. chris was simply not earning his $$$.

of the free agents listed, id hope the skins look at mckenzie or hopkins. if they sign hopkins, it should be like a 4 year deal, and then the skins could draft a OT in the next draft or 2....

[Jimreaper007]

What is the solution? Who do we bring in or draft that would be a good fit at Left Tackle at a decent price?

[2Cooley]

What is the solution? Who do we bring in or draft that would be a good fit at Left Tackle at a decent price?
we really cant start a rookie there and we should not put that much money into that postion I really would want to stick with samules i think he will reconstruct

[Skins57]

What is the solution? Who do we bring in or draft that would be a good fit at Left Tackle at a decent price?


I would like to keep Chris, as I think that is our best option but I wonder if he will allow that to happen

[inevitable]

Don't worry, if Samuels is shown the door, Gibbs will get a vet to replace him.

Another 41 year old? :rolleyes:

[redskin_rich]

Another 41 year old? :rolleyes:
Well, I sure hope not. For some reason Gibbs wants to bring Brown back so I guess that doesn't say much for Wilson and Molinaro.

[akhhorus]

Well, I sure hope not. For some reason Gibbs wants to bring Brown back so I guess that doesn't say much for Wilson and Molinaro.

Brown doesnt even play LT, so bringing him up is a bit ridiculous.

[Dexter72]

What is the solution? Who do we bring in or draft that would be a good fit at Left Tackle at a decent price?

I think the Skins absolutely have to have a player in the good-to-great range at LT, regardless of the price. We have a young QB who still is a little shaky, and certainly is not mobile...LT might be the most important position for the Skins next year. To me the whole Samuels deal is somewhat contigent on whether Walter Jones and Jonas Jennings get franchised. If they don't, the Skins could make a play for one of them...If they do, then I think the Skins would have a hard time getting a LT who can play at or above the level Samuels has been playing at, since FA and the draft would both be pretty weak.

If the Skins can't work a deal for Samuels to re-structure and they get shut out in free agency (and don't take Barron in the 1st), I'd like to see them pull what Carolina did a while back, which would be to sign a franchised OT after the draft -- namely, Orlando Pace. I know, I know, he's real expensive, 2 1st rounders is a high, high price, etc., etc. But, if Samuels is indeed worth a low 1st/high 2nd rounder in 2005, I think they probably could get a 2006 1st rounder for him...which is better than having to cut him and not getting jack...so in essence we'd be getting as good a left tackle as there is in the game, and a guy who is still has a good 6-7 years left (he just turned 29) in Pace for our 2007 1st rounder and a lot of cash.

[redskin_rich]

Brown doesnt even play LT, so bringing him up is a bit ridiculous.
I know, I was just replying to the 41 y/o remark.

[Dexter72]

Just saw this:

"Seattle is in a pickle because their three best players — Alexander, quarterback Matt Hasselbeck and offensive tackle Walter Jones — are all unrestricted and they have routinely been placing the franchise tag on Jones. It's really looking like the Seahawks will focus on Hasselbeck and Alexander and allow Jones to escape if he wants to."

and this...
"For the right price, Minnesota will shed offensive tackle Bryant McKinnie. "

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/3390402

[akhhorus]

Just saw this:

"Seattle is in a pickle because their three best players — Alexander, quarterback Matt Hasselbeck and offensive tackle Walter Jones — are all unrestricted and they have routinely been placing the franchise tag on Jones. It's really looking like the Seahawks will focus on Hasselbeck and Alexander and allow Jones to escape if he wants to."

and this...
"For the right price, Minnesota will shed offensive tackle Bryant McKinnie. "

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/3390402

I would go after McKinnie for the right price. I would give them Samuels; straight up.

[LATrueRedskin]

We need to have an adequete player at LT, whether it's Samuels or not. I'm not a fan of "trying" Molinaro or Wilson. Next season is a very important season for us, we can't waste it trying out players to see if it works out or not. We just did that this past season. If Samuels doesn't want to restructure, get rid of him and find someone else who can play. We need a veteran there.

[fent]

I would go after McKinnie for the right price. I would give them Samuels; straight up.

how has mckinnie been doing in the NFL? i remember the big hoopla around him when he was drafted and never having allowed a sack...has he even remotely lived up to the billing?

[aREDSKIN]

I like the idea of targeting Jones of Seattle. Of course that depends on a number of things happening. But if the cards fall just right we might be able to swing getting Jones, a huge upgrade IMO over Samuels, trade Samuels for a pick(s) and clear up some damm cap room. Man this looks good to me.

[akhhorus]

how has mckinnie been doing in the NFL? i remember the big hoopla around him when he was drafted and never having allowed a sack...has he even remotely lived up to the billing?

He has been a good Left Tackle. I would put him in the Top 10-15 Left Tackles in the league. He's on a same level as someone like Victor Riley, Chad Clifton, Jordan Gross, Willie Roaf.

[Jimreaper007]

What are the stats on this Mckinnie guy?

[aREDSKIN]

LOL. Here's the Vikes messages board talking about McKinnie. It sounds just like ours with Samuels. Overpaid, underperforming, benched, get what we can for the guy, etc. No thanks I'll pass on McKinnie.

http://mb10.scout.com/fvikingupdatefrm2.showMessage?topicID=126334.topic

[akhhorus]

LOL. Here's the Vikes messages board talking about McKinnie. It sounds just like ours with Samuels. Overpaid, underperforming, benched, get what we can for the guy, etc. No thanks I'll pass on McKinnie.

http://mb10.scout.com/fvikingupdatefrm2.showMessage?topicID=126334.topic

Ive been impressed when Ive seen Mckinnie play. He's huge and fast.

[inevitable]

Size and speed don't matter when you're not performing. I'm sure everyone else around the league thinks Chris Samuels would be a great pickup because he has size and speed, but we're so eager to let him go...

Thankfully coaches don't sign/release players based on the whimiscal opinions of fans; whether McKinnie is good or not can be decided by our staff, not by the fans of Minnesota, just as if Samuels is traded, teams will base what to trade him by the film of our games, not what people here feel based on what he decides to do/not to do with his contract and his agent.

[bosshog001]

If you are right value is the key. Considering he is an all pro starting left tackle a second rounder is not a good return. The skins would have to either get a starting left tackle (who is good) in return or a low first round pick.

Problem is that whoever trade for hi will also be stuck with this ugly last year of the contract, that will bring down his trade value

[akhhorus]

Problem is that whoever trade for hi will also be stuck with this ugly last year of the contract, that will bring down his trade value

Samuels has two years left, although he has an option to void the final year. Which he hasnt invoked...yet. Any team who trades for him will almost certainly renegotiate with him.

[Skins57]

I agree, he will not go somewhere without geting a new deal

[Beast56Redskin]

I agree, he will not go somewhere without geting a new deal

speaking of new deals, how are we gonna afford walter jones. his name keeps being mentioned, but no one talks about how much money he wants. i understand he wont want as much as pace (but thats all the postons). whos jonse's agent?

mckinnie seems like a viable option, if samuels absolutely has to go....

[flave1969]

Everyone is saying we should renogotiate with Chris Samuels, yet I have not heard one realistic way we can sign him.

He has two years left during which time he is due to make roughly 20 million. I feel that he is now in a position salary wise that even spread over five or six years he is going to want that 20 million and at least 10 to 15 million more. That will take some serious backloading salary wise and it will not be more than a couple of years before we are back owing him big dollars again.

For us to keep Samuels we are hoping that he is going to give up a ton of cash. I personally do not see it happening.

If we do get him to renegotiate we will be back in the same situation where we will be stuck with a player with a huge signing bonus. Brunell should be a salutory lesson for us in tying that kind of money up in one player.

Now I like Chris but we only have 37 players under contract for 2006 and the wage bill is about 104 million for that year already. Even if the Cap rises as it has we will be about 15 million over. Fact is we will need Chris to sign a VERY VERY Cap friendly deal. I see no will from him too do so.

[Jimreaper007]

I would be a little careful when judging the stats of Lineman on team with Mobile QB's. Those stats have a tendancy to lie a bit due to the fact that mobile QB's may avoid a lot of would be sacks.

McKinnie is probably a very good lineman, but it does not hurt to have a running 265 pound QB back there. Culpepper makes his lineman look great. Mckinnie is so big that I have a hard time believing he handles speed rushers.

[GibbsFan]

Trade CS and his fat contract, he has consisistently underachieved. I don't mind players getting paid when they deserve it, but he has been one of the biggest thieves in the NFL over the last 4 years. I have seen plenty making 1/6th of his salary or less who are performing better. He consistently gets beat by speed rushers and he is no road grader. Yes, he was probably our best lineman last year. So what? We averaged how many points last year? He makes how much? See ya! Get some football players and get rid of the lazy high priced fat catz and maybe you'll see some improvement.

Sign Whitfield and Willig and get better results and money back!

[ConradCountry]

What about dumping Samuels for a 1st rd pick to Atlanta at 27 or what ever and then trading down to 15 or 16 and doing this,

1{15} OT Jamal Brown, big mean and the top college lineman. He starts and we protect him on obvious passing downs with the TE or the RB.

1{27} DE Matt Roth, he is crazy.

[akhhorus]

What about dumping Samuels for a 1st rd pick to Atlanta at 27 or what ever and then trading down to 15 or 16 and doing this,

1{15} OT Jamal Brown, big mean and the top college lineman. He starts and we protect him on obvious passing downs with the TE or the RB.

1{27} DE Matt Roth, he is crazy.

Brown will be a RT or Guard in the NFL. I would prefer Colmer, Barnes or Munoz.

[ConradCountry]

I would go after McKinnie for the right price. I would give them Samuels; straight up.

I doubt that they would do that deal there is not point, what do you think we would have to give up to get McKinnie.

[akhhorus]

I doubt that they would do that deal there is not point, what do you think we would have to give up to get McKinnie.

probably a conditional pick. They would want a first, forget that.