PFT accusing Gibbs of tampering

[GolfFreak]

I know this isn't a popular source for information, but it's interesting ...

Source (http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm)

GIBBS VIOLATING TAMPERING RULES?



Among other things, those eleven years that Redskins coach Joe Gibbs spent away from the game of football apparently caused him to forget one of the cardinal rules of life in the NFL.



You never, ever talk publicly about a guy who's under contract with another team.



Still, on a Tuesday radio show, Gibbs fielded questions about at least two guys who are not yet free agents and, amazingly, Gibbs answered them.



Gibbs was asked about Panthers receiver Muhsin Muhammad. Muhammad is owed a $10 million roster bonus less than two weeks from now. The Panthers can pay it and keep him, or they can work out a new deal that (for example) converts the roster bonus into a signing bonus, or they can cut him.



Regardless of the team's ultimate decision, Muhammad currently remains property of the Panthers.



But in response to questions about Muhammad, Gibbs said, "The problem is he's 31, and basically what his agent said is: 'Show me the money.'"



Apart from the obvious fact that Gibbs commented on Muhammad when Gibbs clearly shouldn't have done so, Gibbs' reference to Muhammad's agent raises an obvious question.



Have the Redskins already been talking to him?



It wouldn't be the first time that the Redskins were accused of negotiating with a player who was still under contract with another team. In 2003, Sports Illustrated's Peter King reported that the Redskins had made safety Lawyer Milloy a contract offer before Milloy was cut by the Patriots. (To little surprise, Milloy later denied telling King that he'd gotten a prior offer from the Redskins.)



Gibbs also addressed on Tuesday Steelers receiver Plaxico Burress, when explaining that, with Muhammad and Burress, "what you're talking about is big bucks."



Again, how does Gibbs know that Burress wants big bucks, especially when (as we recently reported) the Steelers have yet to receive an opening demand from Burress's agent?



Bottom line -- Gibbs should get his knuckles rapped for even talking about Muhammad and Burress. Beyond that, the NFL needs to take a look at whether the 'Skins have been in communication with either Muhammad or Burress, or their agents.



With that said, we're hardly naive. At next week's scouting combine, agents won't be talking to teams only about the draft prospects they represent. There will be -- as there always are -- plenty of discussions about teams' interest in impending free agents, even though such conversations are against the rules.



Still, there's something to be said for the exercise of discretion. In Gibbs' case, his willingness to talk openly about guys who are still under contract elsewhere shows either that: (a) he's stupid; or (b) the Redskins have so little regard for the tampering rules that even basic, fundamental concepts such as never, ever talking about another team's player are ignored.



Either way, it's a problem that the NFL should not overlook.

[akhhorus]

Until the NFL weighs in, I dont care what PFT says.

Golffreak, there is difference between what PFT speculates(like Dallas going after Smoot) and reality.

[CNYSkinFan]

You know I think Akhorous on a previous thread said that this would come back to bite Gibbs in the but and it didn't take long.

However this is just amateur crapola!!!! Because Gibbs brings up Muhammed's age he must have talked to him? Or maybe Gibbs just went to ESPN.com and got the player profile. Because he thinks Plaxico wants alot of money he must already be in negotiations? An illiterate farm worker in Samoa knows that both Plaxico and Muslin want HUGE deals.

Now Gibbs mentioned what Muhammed's agent said, but, and off hand I have no proof of this, he could be refering to the agents comments in another publication.

PFT is a rag. I wouldn't wipe my butt with it. They speculate instead of report. If I want pure speculation with no actual facts I will read the White House's social security plan.

[IMALILTEAPOT]

i just think gibbs said that based on knowledge. It doesnt take a genius to figure out that a pro bowl reciever who is a free agent is gonna want big bucks. I hope the nfl doesnt fine him

[hockeygoalie29]

The fact is Gibbs was asked by the fans if he'd be going after these two guys becasue they will be free agents. Gibbs said no, they would cost too much. I don't see any signs of tampering what-so-ever. The reference to the amount of money Muhammed wants could easily be taken from his public demands of the Panthers. These guys are just trying to start some trouble.

[akhhorus]

You know I think Akhorous on a previous thread said that this would come back to bite Gibbs in the but and it didn't take long.

However this is just amateur crapola!!!! Because Gibbs brings up Muhammed's age he must have talked to him? Or maybe Gibbs just went to ESPN.com and got the player profile. Because he thinks Plaxico wants alot of money he must already be in negotiations? An illiterate farm worker in Samoa knows that both Plaxico and Muslin want HUGE deals.

Now Gibbs mentioned what Muhammed's agent said, but, and off hand I have no proof of this, he could be refering to the agents comments in another publication.

PFT is a rag. I wouldn't wipe my but with it. They speculate instead of report. If I want pure speculation with no actual facts I will read the White House's social security plan.

As soon as I heard that Gibbs mentioned Muhammed, I knew that someone would bring up tampering. PFT has zero case on tampering when it comes to Plaxico. He's not under contract, but Musin can be considered tampering but only if Carolina never cuts him. But they would have to show that Gibbs went beyond telling Musin's agent that they would be interested and started negotiations. It is legal to ask an agent what he would be looking for in a new contract or for the agent to call Gibbs unsolicited and tell him what they are looking for. There is nothing that violates this in what I heard(at least nothing that could be proven as a violation).

[smoak]

This is total %*$&-ing %&#$. I'm so angry I can't respond futher, but I agree with CNY.

An illiterate farm worker in Samoa knows that both Plaxico and Muslin want HUGE deals.

[smoak]

The NFL is probably going to take our first round pick.

[Dexter72]

The fact is Gibbs was asked by the fans if he'd be going after these two guys becasue they will be free agents. Gibbs said no, they would cost too much. I don't see any signs of tampering what-so-ever. The reference to the amount of money Muhammed wants could easily be taken from his public demands of the Panthers. These guys are just trying to start some trouble.

I agree...Gibbs can say he was merely speculatin' or going off the rumors he's seen and heard...Unless their is a smoking gun, paperwork that has been exchanged or tape, I don't see how tampering can be proved.

[akhhorus]

The NFL is probably going to take our first round pick.

The most they could take is our third. Unless We signed both Musin and Plaxico and they could prove the case. Like with a document written before the FA date or with people testifying that the skins signed them before the deadline. They nailed the Broncos for doing somethign similar and they stripped their third rounder this year.

[Spence]

Everything Gibbs said is public knowledge. How does Gibbs know what Mushin Muhammed's agent is demanding? Maybe Gibbs reads the newspapers. I knew it and I haven't been tampering. I just read newspapers. How does Gibbs know what Plaxico Burress wants? Maybe Gibbs reads newspapers. Same deal. Negotiations begin long before formal offers are tendered.

Of course, there's also the grapevine. Agents talk to each other and to general managers. General managers talk to each other. This stuff gets around quickly. If Gibbs got information about a player from another general manager--which is common--that's not tampering at all.

The boys over at PFT say they're trying not to be naive. Maybe they should try a little harder.

[CNYSkinFan]

You know I just, for the first time really checked out PFT and I have to say my conclusion about it being a rag not worthy of my rounder side holds up well. Here is something else they wrote later on:

On the issue of tampering, Cardinals exec Rod Graves arguably committed a technical violation of the rules when saying that, as to the possibility of signing Browns QB Jeff Garcia after he's released on February 22, "we're keeping the door open" (unless, of course, Graves was referring to the proverbial closet).

This is not tampering either. If this was tampering there would never be an NFL draft because all 32 teams would have all of their picks stripped of all their picks every year.

So I was a little curious about who these guys were and I went to their "about us" section. Here a few tidbits:

We don't have editors, we don't have agendas, we don't owe anyone anything and we don't care.

Well you are batting .500 there. No editors and not caring is certain. In fact those two things walk hand in hand down the path of true BS. However their agenda is pretty obvious, to make money and sell advertising space. Generating web hits by posting crap is their motus operandi. As for not owing anyone anything....well if they don't count their own self respect then they are right.

We're the first to admit that we don't always adhere to pure journalistic standards. We don't seek reactions from players, coaches, and/or agents before posting controversial stories.

No crap! I didn't figure that out already. :rolleyes:

[NamVet4]

DAILY RUMOR MILL
Once again people, why do you think they title their article this way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Etymology: Middle English rumour, from Middle French, from Latin rumor clamor, gossip; akin to Old English rEon to lament, Sanskrit rauti he roars
1 : talk or opinion widely disseminated with no discernible source
2 : a statement or report current without known authority for its truth
3 archaic : talk or report of a notable person or event
4 : a soft low indistinct sound : MURMUR

Good grief !!!http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/565000/images/_566045_good_grief.gif

[MoeRedskins]

wow, the more I read the football rumor page, the more I start to think that a group of monkeys are just sitting around listening to the radio and repeating what has been said. I make a motion that no more rumors from this so called rumor mill become threads because they are a waste of everybodies time. Oh, I just read of their rumor mill that cancer is now good for you.

[skins111111]

yawn!!!!!!! can't see me loosing any sleep over it :sleeping:

[CarMike]

Same story, different year. Every year that rag of a site says the Redskins are tampering before FA officially opens.

As its been stated plenty times already, what Gibbs said was public knowledge.

[Santheb]

Didn't Muhammads agent already come out saying that he wants a 35 million dollar contract? Maybe thats what Gibbs was basing his information off of..? Maybe PFT is stirring the <explicitive deleted>?

[Dexter72]

wow, the more I read the football rumor page, the more I start to think that a group of monkeys are just sitting around listening to the radio and repeating what has been said. I make a motion that no more rumors from this so called rumor mill become threads because they are a waste of everybodies time. Oh, I just read of their rumor mill that cancer is now good for you.

If you read their "one-liners" section, its basically all links to reputable news sites. Its their "editorials" (using the term loosely) where they throw all sorts of nonsense out...in truth though, they are not much different from ESPN's "insiders". John Clayton is from Seattle and was on ESPN radio YESTERDAY saying that the Seahawks were focused on completing a deal with Hasselbeck and would franchise Walter Jones....woooops.

[CNYSkinFan]

wow, the more I read the football rumor page, the more I start to think that a group of monkeys are just sitting around listening to the radio and repeating what has been said. I make a motion that no more rumors from this so called rumor mill become threads because they are a waste of everybodies time. Oh, I just read of their rumor mill that cancer is now good for you.

I second it

[smoak]

The most they could take is our third. Unless We signed both Musin and Plaxico and they could prove the case. Like with a document written before the FA date or with people testifying that the skins signed them before the deadline. They nailed the Broncos for doing somethign similar and they stripped their third rounder this year.

I know. I guess I'm just being cynical re: the fact that we're always in the news for the wrongs reasons.

[chrisbcbu]

Rofl this was hilarious. if Gibbs is considered tampering then why wasnt Mcnabb and the Eagles considered tampering when all the Eagles told him to come to Philly??

[MoeRedskins]

They nailed the Broncos for doing somethign similar and they stripped their third rounder this year.

just out of curiousity, who gets that pick. Is it just skipped over or do they give it to the needy?

[akhhorus]

just out of curiousity, who gets that pick. Is it just skipped over or do they give it to the needy?

Forfeited. No-one gets it.

[smoak]

Forfeited. No-one gets it.

I'm sure they find a way to ship it to Philly or Dallass.

[akhhorus]

I'm sure they find a way to ship it to Philly or Dallass.

I doubt it: they actually have the pick listed in the official draft order, but it says: "Forefeited--Denver".

[MONK_in_HOF]

This is total crap. I am glad I have never been to that site before and will never go again. This was probably spearheaded by Peter King. I believe the first question addressed to Gibbs by Micheals when the phones went dead was about free agency. In that response he noted that they have been going through and ranking every prospective FA. I would assume when they do this they also try and determine what price range each player would likely be in. They know their own situation and the relative cost each FA relative worth and demand enough to speculate on the possiblity of them persuing them. How does these people know that they didn't learn of Muhammed's demands through the Panthers front office. The Redskins have made it known what Smoot has supposedly turned down. What does it matter to let this info out if nobody can negotiate with them at this point anyhow. You are either going to sign your FA or not, there demands usually aren't top secret. Just goes to show you there is a lot of resentment towards the Redskins and most likely Dan Snyder due to his large pocketbook and free spending ways. Just wait till Gibbs turns this thing around. We will be the Yankees of football to the less liquid franchises. The fact that this person would imply Joe Gibbs is stupid speaks volumes by itself.

[akhhorus]

This is total crap. I am glad I have never been to that site before and will never go again. This was probably spearheaded by Peter King. .

Huh? Where does Peter King fit into your conspiracy?

[MONK_in_HOF]

He is always stirring crap up about the skins. Peter King that is.
Lobbying to keep monk out of HOF
Plus the whole lawyer milloy thing. He is always talking Sh!t about snyder.
It is obvious he is a Dallas fan or maybe Giants from his year as a reporter there.

[MONK_in_HOF]

years as a reporter there.

[akhhorus]

He is always stirring crap up about the skins. Peter King that is.
Lobbying to keep monk out of HOF
Plus the whole lawyer milloy thing. He is always talking Sh!t about snyder.
It is obvious he is a Dallas fan or maybe Giants from his year as a reporter there.

King is a fairly even handed Football reporter. What exactly have the Skins done to warrant an end to the criticism? The whole Lawyey Milloy thing? The skins did contact the Postons about Milloy before he was cut; King isnt lying when he brought that up. Dr. Z also lobbies against Monk, where's the anger for him? Monk is a great WR, but I understand why he doesnt make the HOF.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

King is a fairly even handed Football reporter. What exactly have the Skins done to warrant an end to the criticism? The whole Lawyey Milloy thing? The skins did contact the Postons about Milloy before he was cut; King isnt lying when he brought that up. Dr. Z also lobbies against Monk, where's the anger for him? Monk is a great WR, but I understand why he doesnt make the HOF.
Do you think he doesn't belong in the HOF?

[akhhorus]

Do you think he doesn't belong in the HOF?

I think he's borderline. As a Redskins Fan I want him in the Hall, but I understand the argument against him.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

I think he's borderline. As a Redskins Fan I want him in the Hall, but I understand the argument against him.
Would you vote for him? Try to take off the B&G glasses.

[MONK_in_HOF]

The anger comes from never hearing him say one positive thing about the redskins as a franchise or a redskins player. I don't see him as being as even handed as you suggest. On the other hand I have on many occasions heard him take a negative approach when discussing anything redskin related. I know I am biased towards the skins, as I am sure most everyone on this site is, but the passion with which he persued and discussed the milloy situation made it almost seem personal to him. I have no love for Dr. Z either.

[joethefan]

According to them..tammpering is the "Danny Way".... :lol1:

BUt in all seriousness this is total crap...anyone that knew football for 5 weeks knew that Musim, and Plax.....are looking for big Paydays......my 9 year old son that watches the Network with me knows that................ :banghead:

[akhhorus]

The anger comes from never hearing him say one positive thing about the redskins as a franchise or a redskins player. I don't see him as being as even handed as you suggest. On the other hand I have on many occasions heard him take a negative approach when discussing anything redskin related. I know I am biased towards the skins, as I am sure most everyone on this site is, but the passion with which he persued and discussed the milloy situation made it almost seem personal to him. I have no love for Dr. Z either.

This is not true at all. He named Marcus Washington his defensive player of the week against Pittsburgh and wrote a good column about Gibbs' return. I think you're confusing him with Don Banks.

[akhhorus]

Would you vote for him? Try to take off the B&G glasses.

If there was no-other WRs up with Monk in the final 6; I would.

[whitskins]

This is not true at all. He named Marcus Washington his defensive player of the week against Pittsburgh and wrote a good column about Gibbs' return. I think you're confusing him with Don Banks.

I don't have the hate for Peter King that some do either. Don Banks is an inexcusable hack who writes columns simply to flame us, and Pasta Belly takes excessive cheap shots.

PK hangs off the dominant NFL teams, if we had a season like the Steelers did, you can bet anything he would be drooling over us. He picked us as a Super Bowl contender the preseason we signed Deion, Bruce Smith, and picked Danny Wuerffel to throw 3700 yards in Spurrier's first year. He said Spurrier would win a Super Bowl, then said Gibbs would win a Super Bowl, then took that back, and he'll revert back to Super Bowl prediction soon enough.

PK may be a yes man and a TERRIBLE NFL theorist, but he's not out to get us. Don Banks most certainly is.

[akhhorus]

I don't have the hate for Peter King that some do either. Don Banks is an inexcusable hack who writes columns simply to flame us, and Pasta Belly takes excessive cheap shots.

PK hangs off the dominant NFL teams, if we had a season like the Steelers did, you can bet anything he would be drooling over us. He picked us as a Super Bowl contender the preseason we signed Deion, Bruce Smith, and picked Danny Wuerffel to throw 3700 yards in Spurrier's first year. He said Spurrier would win a Super Bowl, then said Gibbs would win a Super Bowl, then took that back, and he'll revert back to Super Bowl prediction soon enough.

PK may be a yes man and a TERRIBLE NFL theorist, but he's not out to get us. Don Banks most certainly is.

the irony being PK lives in NYC, and Banks lives in DC. PK can be critical of some teams, but I havent noticed an anti-Redskins Bias in his work. Certainly not when compared to Don Vito and Banks.

[MONK_in_HOF]

If there was no-other WRs up with Monk in the final 6; I would.

are you suggesting that any other WR that would make the final 6 are better suited than Monk?

Just curious, if you think Monk is borderline HOF, do you also think most of the WR that are already in are borderline also? He compares very favorable to most of them statistically, which is hard to compare across eras. But he did go out with many of the key records for his position. The fact that people in this era are passing him by shouldn't be held against him. It wasn't for his predecessors. Also he was a key component on skins teams that were super bowl contenders for most of a decade.

We will just have to disagree on the Peter King thing. I am sure in his years of writing and reporting not everything is 100% negative towards skins or lots of people, not only redskins fans would call him out. But from everything I have read and seen most seems spitefully negative.

[whitskins]

the irony being PK lives in NYC, and Banks lives in DC. PK can be critical of some teams, but I havent noticed an anti-Redskins Bias in his work. Certainly not when compared to Don Vito and Banks.

Banks lives in DC?? I'd love to catch him crossing the street while I'm driving my car. It'd be like that scene from Pulp Fiction.

[akhhorus]

are you suggesting that any other WR that would make the final 6 are better suited than Monk?

Just curious, if you think Monk is borderline HOF, do you also think most of the WR that are already in are borderline also? He compares very favorable to most of them statistically, which is hard to compare across eras. But he did go out with many of the key records for his position. The fact that people in this era are passing him by shouldn't be held against him. It wasn't for his predecessors. Also he was a key component on skins teams that were super bowl contenders for most of a decade.

We will just have to disagree on the Peter King thing. I am sure in his years of writing and reporting not everything is 100% negative towards skins or lots of people, not only redskins fans would call him out. But from everything I have read and seen most seems spitefully negative.

It all depends on who the WR was. I would have voted for Michael Irvin over Monk. It's not just stats for Monk, but Peter King is right when he says that other teams were not worried about Monk: Clark scared people more.

Fine, believe what you want. But Peter King writes good things about successful teams, the Skins havent been one recently. And you're still wrong: he does not have a Anti-Skins bias. But feel completely free to keep beleiving that. Out of curiousity, which National NFl reporters do you like?

[akhhorus]

Banks lives in DC?? I'd love to catch him crossing the street while I'm driving my car. It'd be like that scene from Pulp Fiction.

Yeah, he lives in Bethesda, I beleive.

[D-Ruck #8]

i just think gibbs said that based on knowledge. It doesnt take a genius to figure out that a pro bowl reciever who is a free agent is gonna want big bucks. I hope the nfl doesnt fine him

Yeah, everybody knows there gonna want big bucks

[rskinsfan10]

Must be that time of the year again...

[COUNCILMAN]

The mere fact that there is controversy around it shows that Gibbs has embarrassed the Redskins. This story has wings and Gibbs has violated his own rule about not embarassing the Skins.

If he doesn't know better than to NOT discuss signing or NOT signing specific players under contract to other teams....maybe this is a clue as to why he couldn't figure out why 11 men were gathering around the line of scrimmage to stop Portis.(because he was calling 2 yard passes all the time)

I really can't figure out if something is wrong with Gibbs or if Beathard and Pettibone were the real secret of his success before. All I know is that his decisions so far, from Brunell(and sticking with Brunell).....to playcalling....to making illegal comments...are just not in keeping with a normal functioning Hall OF Fame coach. Something is odd.

[akhhorus]

The mere fact that there is controversy around it shows that Gibbs has embarrassed the Redskins. This story has wings and Gibbs has violated his own rule about not embarassing the Skins.

If he doesn't know better than to NOT discuss signing or NOT signing specific players under contract to other teams....maybe this is a clue as to why he couldn't figure out why 11 men were gathering around the line of scrimmage to stop Portis.(because he was calling 2 yard passes all the time)

I really can't figure out if something is wrong with Gibbs or if Beathard and Pettibone were the real secret of his success before. All I know is that his decisions so far, from Brunell(and sticking with Brunell).....to playcalling....to making illegal comments...are just not in keeping with a normal functioning Hall OF Fame coach. Something is odd.

So, you want Danny to fire Gibbs now? :rolleyes: You're right: Gibbs just SUCKS.

I love how you're automatically assuming that this story is right. You obviously dont know how "reliable" PFT is.

[smoot]

The mere fact that there is controversy around it shows that Gibbs has embarrassed the Redskins. This story has wings and Gibbs has violated his own rule about not embarassing the Skins.

If he doesn't know better than to NOT discuss signing or NOT signing specific players under contract to other teams....maybe this is a clue as to why he couldn't figure out why 11 men were gathering around the line of scrimmage to stop Portis.(because he was calling 2 yard passes all the time)

I really can't figure out if something is wrong with Gibbs or if Beathard and Pettibone were the real secret of his success before. All I know is that his decisions so far, from Brunell(and sticking with Brunell).....to playcalling....to making illegal comments...are just not in keeping with a normal functioning Hall OF Fame coach. Something is odd.
oh my, :banghead:

[whitskins]

The mere fact that there is controversy around it shows that Gibbs has embarrassed the Redskins. This story has wings and Gibbs has violated his own rule about not embarassing the Skins.

If he doesn't know better than to NOT discuss signing or NOT signing specific players under contract to other teams....maybe this is a clue as to why he couldn't figure out why 11 men were gathering around the line of scrimmage to stop Portis.(because he was calling 2 yard passes all the time)

I really can't figure out if something is wrong with Gibbs or if Beathard and Pettibone were the real secret of his success before. All I know is that his decisions so far, from Brunell(and sticking with Brunell).....to playcalling....to making illegal comments...are just not in keeping with a normal functioning Hall OF Fame coach. Something is odd.

You're a Cowboys fan.

[akhhorus]

You're a Cowboys fan.

Yeah. Good call.

[CNYSkinFan]

The mere fact that there is controversy around it shows that Gibbs has embarrassed the Redskins. This story has wings and Gibbs has violated his own rule about not embarassing the Skins.

If he doesn't know better than to NOT discuss signing or NOT signing specific players under contract to other teams....maybe this is a clue as to why he couldn't figure out why 11 men were gathering around the line of scrimmage to stop Portis.(because he was calling 2 yard passes all the time)

I really can't figure out if something is wrong with Gibbs or if Beathard and Pettibone were the real secret of his success before. All I know is that his decisions so far, from Brunell(and sticking with Brunell).....to playcalling....to making illegal comments...are just not in keeping with a normal functioning Hall OF Fame coach. Something is odd.

There is a first time for everything I have been told. Well I have never called anyone on here this, but I must call you it because it fits.

TROLL!!!!!

[redskin_rich]

There is a first time for everything I have been told. Well I have never called anyone on here this, but I must call you it because it fits.

TROLL!!!!!
The lowest kind.
A Cowgirl Troll.

[Beast56Redskin]

You know I think Akhorous on a previous thread said that this would come back to bite Gibbs in the but and it didn't take long.

However this is just amateur crapola!!!! Because Gibbs brings up Muhammed's age he must have talked to him? Or maybe Gibbs just went to ESPN.com and got the player profile. Because he thinks Plaxico wants alot of money he must already be in negotiations? An illiterate farm worker in Samoa knows that both Plaxico and Muslin want HUGE deals.

Now Gibbs mentioned what Muhammed's agent said, but, and off hand I have no proof of this, he could be refering to the agents comments in another publication.

PFT is a rag. I wouldn't wipe my butt with it. They speculate instead of report. If I want pure speculation with no actual facts I will read the White House's social security plan.


:lol1: :lol1:


amen brotha!

[Dexter72]

I really can't figure out if something is wrong with Gibbs or if Beathard and Pettibone were the real secret of his success before. All I know is that his decisions so far, from Brunell(and sticking with Brunell).....to playcalling....to making illegal comments...are just not in keeping with a normal functioning Hall OF Fame coach. Something is odd.
Yes Pettibone and Beathard were the keys. Pettibone went on to a great head coaching career and Bobby built a dynasty in San Diego; trading a first rounder for Michael Ricks was pure genius.

[smoak]

The mere fact that there is controversy around it shows that Gibbs has embarrassed the Redskins. This story has wings and Gibbs has violated his own rule about not embarassing the Skins.

If he doesn't know better than to NOT discuss signing or NOT signing specific players under contract to other teams....maybe this is a clue as to why he couldn't figure out why 11 men were gathering around the line of scrimmage to stop Portis.(because he was calling 2 yard passes all the time)

I really can't figure out if something is wrong with Gibbs or if Beathard and Pettibone were the real secret of his success before. All I know is that his decisions so far, from Brunell(and sticking with Brunell).....to playcalling....to making illegal comments...are just not in keeping with a normal functioning Hall OF Fame coach. Something is odd.

Remember that whole conversation about adding someone to your "ignore" list. This Iggle/Cow/Gnat fan is getting blocked. There is no way you can be a Redskins fan and keep coming up with this stuff.

[MONK_in_HOF]

Fine, believe what you want. But Peter King writes good things about successful teams, the Skins havent been one recently. And you're still wrong: he does not have a Anti-Skins bias. But feel completely free to keep beleiving that. Out of curiousity, which National NFl reporters do you like?[/QUOTE]

I am not really partial to any NFL writers in particular. Mortensen is my favorite analyst/reporter but I don't really consider him a writer. I just don't really like King, Dr. Z and I am not too fond of Len Pasquarelli. But we all have our own opinions. THat is what sites like these are all about.

Go terps!!!

[akhhorus]

I am not really partial to any NFL writers in particular. Mortensen is my favorite analyst/reporter but I don't really consider him a writer. I just don't really like King, Dr. Z and I am not too fond of Len Pasquarelli. But we all have our own opinions. THat is what sites like these are all about.

Yes, people can have their opinions, but your statement that Peter King has been 100% negative about the Skins is false. And I'm surprised you don't have the same complaint with Len Pasquarelli. He has been FAR more critical of the Skins and on far more subjects about the skins than King has. That doesn't make any sense.

[smoak]

If there was no-other WRs up with Monk in the final 6; I would.

Sorry Akh, but that is just awful? I don't want to debate it b/c I've heard the arguments too many times but I think the biggest thing going against Monk was thathe had all of his success right before the WR explosion in the NFL. All stats aside, Monk was a GREAT football player, period. He's better than a lot of the clowns in the Hall now. Sometimes I think SB success weighs too heavily into the equation.

Would Riggins be there without his performance against the Dolphins? Honestly as a young Reskins fan that is pretty muxh all I knew about and all people talked about.

[akhhorus]

Sorry Akh, but that is just awful? I don't want to debate it b/c I've heard the arguments too many times but I think the biggest thing going against Monk was thathe had all of his success right before the WR explosion in the NFL. All stats aside, Monk was a GREAT football player, period. He's better than a lot of the clowns in the Hall now. Sometimes I think SB success weighs too heavily into the equation.

Would Riggins be there without his performance against the Dolphins? Honestly as a young Reskins fan that is pretty muxh all I knew about and all people talked about.

I love Monk, he was one of my favs growing up: but he's not in the same class as Jerry Rice, Steve Largent, James Lofton, Charlie Taylor, Lynn Swann... he has good stats but I think he's a borderline HOFer.

[MONK_in_HOF]

Yes, people can have their opinions, but your statement that Peter King has been 100% negative about the Skins is false. And I'm surprised you don't have the same complaint with Len Pasquarelli. He has been FAR more critical of the Skins and on far more subjects about the skins than King has. That doesn't make any sense.
Let me correct you. I never said he is always 100% negative. I said "I am sure in his years of writing and reporting NOT everything is 100% negative towards skins" what I did say is in what I have read and heard personally from King is extremly negative towards skins and it seems spitefull. Honestly now I don't even read or listen to him anymore. I just wonder how he got his job thats all.

[akhhorus]

Let me correct you. I never said he is always 100% negative. I said "I am sure in his years of writing and reporting NOT everything is 100% negative towards skins" what I did say is in what I have read and heard personally from King is extremly negative towards skins and it seems spitefull. Honestly now I don't even read or listen to him anymore. I just wonder how he got his job thats all.

What you said:
"The anger comes from never hearing him say one positive thing about the redskins as a franchise or a redskins player".

He got his job because he's a great NFL columnist who talks to everyone. If you want to believe that he's out to get the skins, feel free to keep believing the lie. Nothing anyone says to you will convince you otherwise.

[MONK_in_HOF]

I love Monk, he was one of my favs growing up: but he's not in the same class as Jerry Rice, Steve Largent, James Lofton, Charlie Taylor, Lynn Swann... he has good stats but I think he's a borderline HOFer.

I hate to keep disagreeing w/ you but Lynn Swann was no Art Monk. Not even close. He wasn't a better player, just more flashy. I know it isn't all about stats but he had only 50+ catches 2x (50,61) in his whole career. He couldn't block nearly as well as Monk. Plus the championship teams he played on were driven by their D mainly. The only reason people remember Swann is b/c he made many circus catches and a few came in championship games. I don't think he is a hall of famer at all, but that whole steelers team is in the hall so why not him and stallworth too. But he is better known in the media so I guess that counts for something. At least to the hall of fame.

[MONK_in_HOF]

And nobody is in the same class as Jerry Rice. And the fact he was destroying the record books right as Monk was ducking out hurts Monk as much as anything.

[colkurtz]

PFT is rarely right about anything. Gibbs said the team is not interested in in over-priced FA WR's.

I'm not worried about this - I'm more concerned that we can't re-sign Pierce.

[akhhorus]

I hate to keep disagreeing w/ you but Lynn Swann was no Art Monk. Not even close. He wasn't a better player, just more flashy. I know it isn't all about stats but he had only 50+ catches 2x (50,61) in his whole career. He couldn't block nearly as well as Monk. Plus the championship teams he played on were driven by their D mainly. The only reason people remember Swann is b/c he made many circus catches and a few came in championship games. I don't think he is a hall of famer at all, but that whole steelers team is in the hall so why not him and stallworth too. But he is better known in the media so I guess that counts for something. At least to the hall of fame.

Swann benefits from playing on one of the greatest dynasties ever. I grant you that. Swann also made the All-Pro team(not the Pro Bowl) more than Monk. He was hyped, but he was great.

[MONK_in_HOF]

and stallworth benefits from that and swann saying he couldn't have done any of it w/out him. So what happens the next year, surprise Stallworth gets in. What a joke. If you go to the HOF site you will notice that Stallworth's page contains a link to Swann's acceptance speech. It is a shame people like Jacoby and Monk may never get in while these guys are.

[Dexter72]

The reason Monk is not in must be that 90% of the people casting the votes never saw more than a handful of the Skins games a year. Anyone who watched knew he was the best offensive player on an offensive-minded team that won 3 super bowls and went to a 4th.

[bgforever]

there's enough trash floating around on the net, among players, and in the papers for anyone to make the statement Joe Gibbs made. All agents say show me the money and everyone knows FA's want big bucks. Duuuuh!

[BIGSEF3]

anyone who thinks gibbs and the skins arent tampering is out of their mind. theres not a single nfl team that doesnt "talk" to players and agents before they are supposed to. sure, its against the rules, but how the heck else do so many deals get done midnight march 1st every year? ..... tampering

everyone does it. is it against the rules? yes. is it really that big of a deal? i dont think so. regardless of the rules, no player is "property." he's a human being with rights. if something is AGREED on when a player is under contract w/ another team, then i have a problem, but there is a little thing called free speech, and i have no doubt the redskins and every other nfl team talks to players they arent supposed to.

its like the speed limit. it says 65, but we all go over it. the cops will let us do 74 and not pull us over.

its against the rules, but everyone does it so its not policed. hence no one cares. thats a pessemistic view, for sure, but i think its a realistic one.

[flave1969]

I love Monk, he was one of my favs growing up: but he's not in the same class as Jerry Rice, Steve Largent, James Lofton, Charlie Taylor, Lynn Swann... he has good stats but I think he's a borderline HOFer.

Akh I do agree with you on many things but your assessment of Art Monk is extremely narrow in my opinion, and this is why. Firstly I cannot subscribe to the narrow view of what a wide receiver is supposed too be in the case of Art Monk. I cannot think of one receiver in the Hall or otherwise that was asked to play by his coach the way Joe Gibbs asked Art Monk to play.

Joe Gibbs used Art Monk as a blocker, he has stated it, watch any game film it is plain to see. That indicates a run first offense. That is not Monk's fault that is just the way it was. The fact that Monk was perhaps the greatest blocking receiver ever should be to his credit.

Is it not possible that Joe Gibbs was onto something good using Art Monk in the way he did rather than just playing that way because, he did not think Monk was a deep threat. When Gibbs played the three receiver set he would always send two guys long and one across the middle. Without that man going across the middle namely Monk, receivers like Brown, Sanders and Clark would have faced a lot more double coverage than they ever did. I think it is a misnomer when teams are said too not have considered Monk a threat because he was more often than not the man who drew double coverage and held the safety in place.

There was just two seasons when Monk was used as an orthodox receiver under Joe Gibbs 1984 and 1985. In 1984 Charlie Brown was hampered by injury all year. The Redskins replaced him with Calvin Muhammed who had a nice year, but he had just 42 catches. Art Monk was asked to carry the load and he responded with 106 catches. In 1985 we had Gary Clark in his rookie year produce good numbers but again Monk was the man who stepped up with 91 grabs. Also bare in mind that Redskin QB's had an awful time in 1985, in fact it was reminiscent of this year in many ways. Monk's ability as a down the field receiver were evident these years and he did produce.

After this time we picked up Sanders and the Possee was formed. Gibbs had a unique situation, three good receivers at wideout. He couldn't play Clark or Sanders in Monk's role so why even try. Also, one pertinent fact about the line up you never saw Monk out of the game if he was good to go. Sanders never deposed Monk as a starter. If the criteria for a wide receiver is that you should just be a deep threat and be able to blow by a defender then Sanders would have been the starter.

Is there a receiver in the hall who had better hands than Art Monk? Is their a receiver who ran better patterns than Art Monk in the hall? Did Art Monk make dozens of spectacular grabs in his career? Yes he was a very athletic man who made a living by going up and getting the ball. Could the receivers in the hall carry out the role that Art Monk was asked to play? I dont think so.

We cannot have the acid test and say what would Art Monk's career have been like had he played an orthodox receiver role. I have watched receivers become increasingly protected over the years and it has been purely for the benefit of the long bomb merchants. I dont see an Art Monk out there amongst receivers, if anything it is the Tight Ends of the league that remind me of him. I cannot countenance such a narrow view of what a receiver should be.

I feel Monk is punished for not being a speed guy, but not praised for being the best at what he did. Those that argue against Monk make it seem like what he did was easy but too me he had the most difficult role in the Joe Gibbs offense and frankly he excelled at what he did. There will always be football players that do not fit into the category of their position neatly, Marshall Faulk springs to mind. But they contribute hugely to their team and redefine what a player can do in that role, look at the evolution of the Tight End role.

I really truly honestly believe that Art Monk would have caught more passes, more TD's and had more yards had he been used as an orthodox receiver because he always had a burst in his numbers when he was asked too play that role. What Monk lacked in speed he made up in intelligence and he could get open in whatever part of the field he played.

Was Monk not considered a threat because of his role? Or because teams did not think he could beat them? It seems people like King, Dr Z and yourself think the latter. I think the former. You just dont get open as much as Monk, catch as many balls as Monk if you do not have supreme skill in what you do. Art Monk's would be dime a dozen otherwise. The way some people talk, Art Monk should have been the easiest player to stop, yet they never did.

[NamVet4]

The way some people talk, Art Monk should have been the easiest player to stop, yet they never did.
There are no truer words or keener observations put this well about the man who made the Redskins a unique franchise; who reinvented the position of WR and who, to the undying shame of the NFL HOF, is not a member.

But this has been discussed again and againm and I'm afraid now that we will have to wait upon the "seniors' committee to make things right! :(

Sorry to have wandered off topic.........

[flave1969]

There are no truer words or keener observations put this well about the man who made the Redskins a unique franchise; who reinvented the position of WR and who, to the undying shame of the NFL HOF, is not a member.

But this has been discussed again and againm and I'm afraid now that we will have to wait upon the "seniors' committee to make things right! :(

Sorry to have wandered off topic.........

Yes I am sorry to have gone off topic as well. But I will never stop campaigning for Monk, whereever the subject arises.

[chrisbcbu]

http://www.buzzfans.com/sports/story/4606628p-4280720c.html

doesnt look like the NFL or Carolina cares about the so called "tampering".

CHARLOTTE -- Though it seemed to be a clear, if not intentional, violation of league tampering rules, neither the Carolina Panthers nor the NFL sounded terribly bothered Wednesday by another team's ill-timed remarks.

Both parties downplayed the issue when asked about eyebrow-raising comments made by Washington coach Joe Gibbs.

[guinness4health]

first of all muhammad's salary concerns are public knowledge...the fact that he is going to be cut is evident, i dont see anything happening with this, it is hard to tamper with a player if we are not interested in the first place.

[dj_stouty]

regardless of the rules, no player is "property." he's a human being with rights. if something is AGREED on when a player is under contract w/ another team, then i have a problem, but there is a little thing called free speech, and i have no doubt the redskins and every other nfl team talks to players they arent supposed to.

Sorry...but those rules don't apply in private businesses such as the NFL. When a player signs himself over to a team...he is technically the property of that team. He can't just decide one day that he will do as he pleases, simply because the Constitution allows him to be "free". Either he follows the rules of his organization or he doesn't play football anymore. Also, the NFL is allowed to restrict a player's speech. If you talk about bad referreeing, you will get fined. If you "talk" to a player under contract of another team, you will be penalized and lose a draft pick. If you swear during a sideline interview on National TV, you may be fined an enormous amount.

[MONK_in_HOF]

Flave 1969 all your points were very well put. Especially the points about his numbers being affected by playing with other good WR and what he did when those compliments weren't there. I myself will go to my grave arguing that Monk deserves in. Hopefully he will be in by then, but I think it is just too bad that they are making him wait. I also apologize for going off tangent but this topic sets me off.

[gibbsisgod]

This info is brought out same way fred's mega money contract is brought out. Through the papers or the orginazation. Maybe gibbs was seeing about a trade or something of that nature. Then the club (carolina in this case) says muham wants X amount of dollars for his new contract and blah,blah,blah. So now gibbs has info, it's not all cloak and dagger deals.

[garedskin]

I know this isn't a popular source for information, but it's interesting ...

Source (http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm)


Well if anyone believes that the Redskins are the only team "TAMPERING" with potential FA,cut players before it becomes official are dumber than a bag of rocks.EVERY team in the league does it.There agents contact teams to give them an heads up.Why do you think Snyder and all the other GMs in the leaugue try to have good working relationships with players agents.Redskin 1 does not just gas up and take off on March 1st every year circling the skys waiting for potential New Redskins to pop up at an airport.The team knows who is getting on it at 12:01am and the player and agent know which one they are getting on.

As for the comments made about the 2 wrs I am not big on signing any of this years FA WRs.None of them stand out to me and the money obviously all of them will demand is not worth spending. :Peace:

[Cowboyz_Legend]

This whole thing is stupid. Nothing is going to happen to Gibbs, he didnt really do anything "wrong".