What If Brunell Win The Starting Job??

[COUNCILMAN]

I know this is not a popular thought, but it occured to me that it was very weird the way Brunell just looked pathetic last season. H never looked right. In fact he looked pathetic. He wasn't the same QB that he was even from the previous season before he was injured.

I was wondering to myself if Brunell hadn't incurred a shoulder injury or some illness that we weren't aware of that he perhaps had even kept hidden from the medical staff. If thats true, it might explain his deterioration into a sloppy, minor league QB almost overnight in a period of 1 year.

May not happen, but what if Brunell returns completely healthy, with a fresh attitude, and actually performs like a terror in prre-season games. He could beat out Ramsey. Man...thats scary.

[ShaggySkins]

Gibbs has already said that there will be no competition this year and that Ramsey is the starter. Therefore the only reason for Brunell to be the opening day starter would be if Ramsey were to suffer a preseason injury.

[Beast56Redskin]

im with shaggy, i dont think there is a chance, baring injury.

[whitskins]

There is no reason to believe that Gibbs will not show Ramsey the exact same loyalty that he showed Brunell. Brunell will be a backup and I think he's actually a pretty good option as a #2 QB, of course his paycheck is a problem but we have to deal.

[BandWagon]

Nothing scares me about the better guy playing. After what I saw in training camp and the preseason, I don't think Ramsey showed that he was better and thus Brunell got the nod. We'll see.

[rskinsfan10]

Nothing scares me about the better guy playing. After what I saw in training camp and the preseason, I don't think Ramsey showed that he was better and thus Brunell got the nod. We'll see.

My sentiments exactly. If Ramsey shows that he is the man, then great. If Brunell clearly outplays him, then Brunell should start.

[MONK_in_HOF]

Is there any way that renegotiating Brunells contract is an option? I know that he would have to agree to it, which he probably wouldn't. But after his performance last year or lack of, could they give him an ultimatum? I doubt he would see anywhere near the type of contract he has right now from any other team and the only money guaranteed in NFL is signing bonus I believe. That would keep us from taking the cap hit we would if the skins were to dump him and at the same time he would still have a more respectable salary than he could get elsewhere if cut. I know there is probably no chance this will happen but it is obvious he is the most overpaid player on the team if not in the entire league.

[MONK_in_HOF]

There is no reason to believe that Gibbs will not show Ramsey the exact same loyalty that he showed Brunell. Brunell will be a backup and I think he's actually a pretty good option as a #2 QB, of course his paycheck is a problem but we have to deal.

Right on. Gibbs has always been known to stick with the guy he has designated the starter, to the point where people accuse him of being stubborn and he doesn't let outside pressures change his mind.

[akhhorus]

Is there any way that renegotiating Brunells contract is an option? I know that he would have to agree to it, which he probably wouldn't. But after his performance last year or lack of, could they give him an ultimatum? I doubt he would see anywhere near the type of contract he has right now from any other team and the only money guaranteed in NFL is signing bonus I believe. That would keep us from taking the cap hit we would if the skins were to dump him and at the same time he would still have a more respectable salary than he could get elsewhere if cut. I know there is probably no chance this will happen but it is obvious he is the most overpaid player on the team if not in the entire league.

The smart play seems to be what the Skins are doing: cutting him after next year. Any renegotiation will just cost the Skins more in the long run. If they do nothing and cut him after June 1st, 06: he costs the Skins about 9.7 million spread over four years(04, 05, 06, 07--cutting after June 1st would split up his bonus cost). The Skins have to cut him before all those big base salary amount come up: 07 or 08. Renegotiating will delay his cut and cost them more in the long run.

Also the Skins cant just convert his bonus to base salary and not be responsible for it when they cut him.

[smoak]

I think councilman is just stirring the pot, but I'll bite.

If Brunnel starts the Redskins will find a way to win football games. If Ramsey starts the Redskins will find a way to win football games.

[hogs86]

Patrick will get us into the playoffs next season.

[silverspring]

I don't even want to hear the rumour. I had to go through a 60 day de-tox when brunell finally lost the starting job and i can't handle that again. I don't care if brunell spontaneously sprouts an arm that can throw the whole field and instincts to go with, i want him to keep that bench good and warm and thats it.

[colkurtz]

Brunnell was spent in his last year at Jacksonville and they knew it. His old tapes fooled Gibbs into hiring him in one of the poorest trades of the season.

He was the worst QB in the NFL last year. If he beats out Ramsey, we're in for another long, long season next year.

The only one in the NFL, or the planet, who doesn't think Brunnell is totally finsihed is his agent. His last game QB rating was 0.0.................................

[joethefan]

Well councliman Finally !!! you raised a pretty valid point to me.....I have been pretty skeptical about Ramsey since he's been here and I've also been telling the Ramseyites on here that he has absolutly no excuses this year. He was named the starter, now be a starter. So in other words, it's Ramsey's job to lose. That's what I think Gibbs is meaning, but I have a strange feeling that Brunnell may make it a problem (with his play that it may not be as easy to get rid of him)

All I'm saying in a nutshell is that our hope is that Ramsey had better play well because he's in a contract year and if he doesn't play well, we are in trouble because the question will then come up, will we resign Ramsey? Keep Brunell? or go back to the drawing board and either bring in or draft another QB. I'm behind Ramsey, but he'd better show up. If not, I don't to hear any excuses.

[Skinz4lyfe]

I don't like "if" scenarios like this. Gibbs has already stated that Ramsey is his starter going into 2005 and that Brunell will continue to play a key role in the organization. Now "if" Ramsey stinks it up like Brunell did last year, than Gibbs will make the necessary adjustments to improve the team. Whether that means pulling Ramsey or adjusting the offensive scheme, Gibbs will adjust to make the team better. But as of right now, there is no "What if Brunell wins the starting job". That's almost like saying that if Betts outplays Portis in the preseason we should start Betts. Just don't see it happening.

[colkurtz]

Joe the fan, I agree with you about Ramsey. I really don't know if he is the long term answer for the 'skins. My gut tells me that he just can't make the reads to find the open receiver.

However, the team needs to give Patrick a bunch of games to prove he is the future or show why we can't keep him in 2006. Playing Brunnell is a waste of time - he has no gas in his tank and showed us that game after game.

The only reason we have Brunnell on the bench is because of the huge cap hit to cut him now.

If Gibbs had hired Warner in stead of Brunnell, we'd have made the playoffs.

[BIGSEF3]

gibbs has said that ramsey is the starter FOR NOW and has to continue to EARN his spot. basically, nothing is garanteed. gibbs is looking at ramsey as his guy, but if he sucks it up prior to our first game, and brunell gets in shape, stops acting like a wuss, and returns to the confident, mobile, incredible passer he was most of his year, there is no way he doesnt start our 1st game.

gibbs will give ramsey his support. but gibbs will not start ramsey in our 1st game if brunell looks noticably better.

i love ramsey and think he will be our long term solution, but i also know gibbs is going to start the guy that looks the best, the guy he feels gives us the best chance of winning.

if brunell looks 20 percent better than ramsey, i still think ramsey will start b/c they would still be playing comparably.

but if brunell looks 2-3 times better than ramsey, then i will support him 100 percent.

the problem last year is that neither of them looked that much better than the other. gibbs had to make a decision and he went with the veteran. he erred on the side of caution and wisdom.

this year, if there is a switch, it will be b/c brunell looks ALOT better than ramsey.

[swheeler]

No matter how good he looks in preseason, if Brunell plays I won't be on the bandwagon until he proves himself in a few real games.

[Dexter72]

Ramsey could start throwing left-handed in preseason, and he'll still be the starter on opening day.

[swheeler]

Brunell could start throwiqng right handed and he might play better

[Patrick]

Interesting thread ......... Could it happen - YOU BET YA!!!! (not that I'd really like to see it but then again I sure like to see the money they're spending on MB getting some return)

Did anyone hear the interview Doc Walker did with Ramsey down in Jacksonville superbowl week???? The bit I heard I found fascinating. Doc referenced a few plays during the course of the year in which he thought some really "BAD" QB (Patrick) decisions were made. Without hesitation Patrick agree - even to the point of at times, needing to tuck the ball away and take off down field. Then he indicated that YOU WILL see him do that more often next season. ............ I guess my point is Patrick is growing as a NFL QB. IMO - his play got stronger as "HIS" year progressed. AND looking at it from a positive - It sounds to me like he is energized and eager to take it to the next level. (Of course it will help him a lot IF we had 3 good WRs he could go to).

IF Mark out plays Patrick this up coming season and earns that starting position back - then that would hopefully mean that we'd see the Burnell of old - and I don't think that would mean another bad season either. ........... would still need WRs to throw to .... ;)

[PennSkinsFan]

I am confused? Isn't Brunell a Redskin? How woudl he start when the starter has already been named? Ok, I am confused.

[BIGSEF3]

ramsey is the starter FOR NOW, and has to CONTINUE TO EARN it. thats the latest from the coach.

payton manning is the incumbent starter in indiannopolis, but you dont hear tony dungy saying manning has to continue to earn the starter spot.

maybe i am reading too much into gibbs statements, but gibbs wasnt exactly putting his hand on a bible and swearing ramsey would be the day one starter.

there will not be an open competition in training camp, but brunell should get atleast 10 percent of the snaps, being a backup. if ramsey isnt showing much with his 90 percent, and brunell doesnt look anything like the brunell of 2004, and looks like the pro-bowl player of old, gibbs will start brunell. gibbs will start the best player, and i think this thread was started to speculate on whether brunell could be the best player.

personally, i think ramsey is only going to improve, and it would be tough for brunell to out-perform him, based on what we saw last year. ramsey will be our starter on opening day, in my opinion.

[IowaSkinsFan]

I know this is not a popular thought, but it occured to me that it was very weird the way Brunell just looked pathetic last season. H never looked right. In fact he looked pathetic. He wasn't the same QB that he was even from the previous season before he was injured.

I was wondering to myself if Brunell hadn't incurred a shoulder injury or some illness that we weren't aware of that he perhaps had even kept hidden from the medical staff. If thats true, it might explain his deterioration into a sloppy, minor league QB almost overnight in a period of 1 year.

May not happen, but what if Brunell returns completely healthy, with a fresh attitude, and actually performs like a terror in prre-season games. He could beat out Ramsey. Man...thats scary.

He's getting older, not younger. He was starting to deterioate before his elbow injury in Jacksonville. He is at the end of the line, IMHO.

[dj_stouty]

Baring injury, I Ramsey will be the starter...and Gibbs will give him a chance to make mistakes...as he did with Brunell.

However, if Ramsey continues to make bad judgements and doesn't seem to progress by mid-point of the season, I could see Gibbs swapping him out and letting Brunell end the season.

If that happens, expect Matt Leinhart's name to be at the top of the Skin's draft list in '06.

[Ohiofan]

If Brunell beats out Ramsey, we will have the number one pick in the 06 draft. Pure and simple.

[MoeRedskins]

I don't think the competition is closed on the starting QB spot b/c I still don't think that Gibbs is 100% sold on Ramsey. Ramsey did improve each week to become a decent starter at the end of the year, so he is getting the understanding of offense down a litte. One aspect of Brunell that everybody has overlooked was the constant dropped passes by the WR. Almost all of Brunell's throws were short, off targer, or dropped. He couldn't really catch a break early on. By the end we all could see that his value was spent. Now, as a big oppenent of trading draft picks I was really against this from the beginning. He was going to be cut, and nobody, NOBODY, would have offered him the deal that the Skins did, even after they gave up a third rounder. Gibbs is learning at a vetern QB with experince will almost always be available in the offseason. So stupid trades like this won't be the norm. All you can hope for is that Brunell pushes Ramsey to perform a little better then he did this year. A little healthy competition never hurt anybody.

[smoak]

Gibbs wouldn't name Ramsey the starter if he didn't mean it.

[candeeman]

Gibbs normally gives the starter most of the practice time , so barring Ramsey looking like Shuler it shouldn't be a issue. Gibbs doesn't like to change the QB and doesn't want to get into the same situation as last year

[chrisbcbu]

Sometimes i wonder if Council is just trying to stir up some controversy. Considering we have been through this before.

Ramsey is the starter "for now". If Brunell outplays Ramsey in preseason, with Ramsey looking awful, i could easily see Brunell starting. The best player to give us a chance to win will start. And i will go with whoever Gibbs starts, considering he knows more than i do.

[Jimreaper007]

I must have been day dreaming because I thought someone started a thread about Mark Brunell winning back the starting job.

Carry on...

[The Skinsinator]

I must have been day dreaming because I thought someone started a thread about Mark Brunell winning back the starting job.

Carry on...


No sh*t.....

[Aurej]

I'd personally sh** a brick.

[BIGSEF3]

hey, if ramsey chokes this year, its looking like we could get either brees or rivers from the chargers in '06. :-)

[smoak]

I have faith that Gibbs and the staff will do what is best for the team, and I also have tfaith that they know more than we do about football.

[skins111111]

I know this is not a popular thought, but it occured to me that it was very weird the way Brunell just looked pathetic last season. H never looked right. In fact he looked pathetic. He wasn't the same QB that he was even from the previous season before he was injured.

I was wondering to myself if Brunell hadn't incurred a shoulder injury or some illness that we weren't aware of that he perhaps had even kept hidden from the medical staff. If thats true, it might explain his deterioration into a sloppy, minor league QB almost overnight in a period of 1 year.

May not happen, but what if Brunell returns completely healthy, with a fresh attitude, and actually performs like a terror in prre-season games. He could beat out Ramsey. Man...thats scary.

do do do do do sounds like the twilight zone.........the only thing Brunell will start will be Gibbs car on cold winter days

[skins111111]

If Ram gets hurt then it won't be long before Hasselbeck is our starter......Gibbs won't stick with Brunell very long this time....(remember the first 9 games last year???)

[C-7]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Brunell will not get better; he will get worse and worse. The only reason why he's still here is cuz of his outrageous contract. No matter how bad Ramsey plays, he should be allowed to start 9 or 10 games same as Brunell did last year when he was playing horrible. Why did JG let Brunell continue playing? The reasons given were many: it wasn't just his fault (BS), Ramsey looked worse than him in practice, etc. But when Ramsey stepped in the offense, although slowly, began to move.


Let Ramsey Play! It's not like he got a real shot under the Spurrier "chuck and duck" offense, where he was battered week in and week out. Let Ramsey Play!

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

Nothing scares me about the better guy playing. After what I saw in training camp and the preseason, I don't think Ramsey showed that he was better and thus Brunell got the nod. We'll see.
i agree with this. whoever gets us the most W's is the correct guy for the job. although i would like to see Pat be our future, id rather just win. after all, we gave up a bunch to land brunell. it would be nice if he could hold up his end of the bargain.

[joethefan]

i agree with this. whoever gets us the most W's is the correct guy for the job. although i would like to see Pat be our future, id rather just win. after all, we gave up a bunch to land brunell. it would be nice if he could hold up his end of the bargain.

Well said Lady well Said....

[Vonslydog]

do do do do do sounds like the twilight zone.........the only thing Brunell will start will be Gibbs car on cold winter days
If Brunell is as bad a driver as he was a QB last year he would probalby just forget to put the car in neutral and mangle the transmission. Or maybe even lose the key before he reaches the parking lot.

[BIGSEF3]

i think brunells main problem is mental. he showed he could still throw the ball deep last year, in that 1st dallas game in the 2nd half. i couldnt beleive it. but more often than not, brunell looked scared. he played like a little girl who was afraid to take a hit, or afraid to take a chance b/c he was too scared to mess up, so he didnt even try.

if he gets over his mental issues, i can see him playing very well for another year or two.

that being said, perhaps he's exactly where he wants to be. safe and sound on a bench making a couple hundred thousand a game.

[COUNCILMAN]

Don't let your hate for Brunell cloud the issue here.

I, like you, had a voodoo doll of Brunell after the 3rd week of the season and punch it and stuck it with pins every week in hopes it would get him out of the lineup. Yes...I agree he was the worst QB I have ever seen play the position of QB with the Washington Redskins and that includes Tony Banks.

However.....with that said. I began to look back. Tommy Maddox was a comeback story....after being out of the NFL for YEARS. Randall Cunningham was done and washed up until he started for the Vikings one years and they went 15-1. I mean, there are dozens of stories out of the NFL about QB's who were D-O-N-E.....only to make one last ditch attempt and suddenly hit gold.

Back in 1965 or 66...the Chicago bears took an old washed up QB named Rudy Bukich and added a couple of good players around him(Gale Sayers was one of them) and his career was briefly revived. The NFL is filled with stories about people like Brunell.

If we get a new center. If we draft Troy Williamson or Mike Williams and that guy becomes a phenom....if Brunell gets comfortable with the system and just starts clicking with Cooley, Williamson, and Coles.....and Portis gets room to run then....WOW. Thats a lot of ifs but it has happened before in the NFL and I am just saying don't be surprised if the Skins offense now looks different and along with it, Mark appears to be different.

Here is a fact: Very few QB's do well in a new system in their FIRST year, regardless of how long they have played. It takes a couple of years of understanding the playbook and offensive philosophy as well as allowing the coach to cater to the QB's strengths. It may seem odd...but Brunell, as bad as he appeared last year....could possibly look like a different person this year.

[guinness4health]

injury is the only way he starts next year, in my mind

[2Cooley]

Gibbs has already said that there will be no competition this year and that Ramsey is the starter. Therefore the only reason for Brunell to be the opening day starter would be if Ramsey were to suffer a preseason injury.


Gibbs said Ramsey is the leader going into the preseason it will be a compitition again

[2Cooley]

i think brunells main problem is mental. he showed he could still throw the ball deep last year, in that 1st dallas game in the 2nd half. i couldnt beleive it. but more often than not, brunell looked scared. he played like a little girl who was afraid to take a hit, or afraid to take a chance b/c he was too scared to mess up, so he didnt even try.

if he gets over his mental issues, i can see him playing very well for another year or two.

that being said, perhaps he's exactly where he wants to be. safe and sound on a bench making a couple hundred thousand a game.

oddly enough that seems to be ramsey's problem he dont care if there is daylight for a second he will try to put it in there and it will usally get picked

[C-7]

Don't let your hate for Brunell cloud the issue here.

I, like you, had a voodoo doll of Brunell after the 3rd week of the season and punch it and stuck it with pins every week in hopes it would get him out of the lineup. Yes...I agree he was the worst QB I have ever seen play the position of QB with the Washington Redskins and that includes Tony Banks.

However.....with that said. I began to look back. Tommy Maddox was a comeback story....after being out of the NFL for YEARS. Randall Cunningham was done and washed up until he started for the Vikings one years and they went 15-1. I mean, there are dozens of stories out of the NFL about QB's who were D-O-N-E.....only to make one last ditch attempt and suddenly hit gold.

Back in 1965 or 66...the Chicago bears took an old washed up QB named Rudy Bukich and added a couple of good players around him(Gale Sayers was one of them) and his career was briefly revived. The NFL is filled with stories about people like Brunell.

If we get a new center. If we draft Troy Williamson or Mike Williams and that guy becomes a phenom....if Brunell gets comfortable with the system and just starts clicking with Cooley, Williamson, and Coles.....and Portis gets room to run then....WOW. Thats a lot of ifs but it has happened before in the NFL and I am just saying don't be surprised if the Skins offense now looks different and along with it, Mark appears to be different.

Here is a fact: Very few QB's do well in a new system in their FIRST year, regardless of how long they have played. It takes a couple of years of understanding the playbook and offensive philosophy as well as allowing the coach to cater to the QB's strengths. It may seem odd...but Brunell, as bad as he appeared last year....could possibly look like a different person this year.




No no no no no no........ What Am I Hearing! I think you need to go back and watch this years games if you have them on tape. Brunell is DONE. D-O-N-E. I, for one, cannot suffer another QB performance like last years, which almost drove me crazy. Ramsey should play all of next year, and if he's not any good, then we'll wait for JB to make a move. But Brunell should not be the #2, but the #3 QB.

[BurgundyNGold]

Here is a fact: Very few QB's do well in a new system in their FIRST year, regardless of how long they have played. It takes a couple of years of understanding the playbook and offensive philosophy as well as allowing the coach to cater to the QB's strengths. It may seem odd...but Brunell, as bad as he appeared last year....could possibly look like a different person this year.
True, but Gibbs' system has traditionally bucked that trend. Gibbs' system is considered to be especially QB-friendly. So, you expect me to believe that a seasoned veteran couln't pick up this QB-friendly, pro system better than a 3rd year QB who played in a Run-N-Shoot system in college and a Fun-N-Gun system (or Chuck-N-Duck, your choice) for Spurrier? I'm not buying that.

Besides, the system didn't make his arm get weak -- that's age. The system didn't make him miss wide open wide receivers running short routes -- that's his mechanics. And the system didn't make him throw with poor mechanics -- that's the wear and tear of 13 years in the league getting beat up. Mentally, he just doesn't want to get hit anymore. You can see it when he plays.

BTW, Ramsey doesn't set up and throw very well either; he depends too much on his arm. His feet are all over the place and too often he throws off of his back foot. But, that's shellshock residue left over from the Spurrier era (if you can call two years an era). Thanks, Steve. The difference is, Ramsey can be coached to correct his deficiencies, whereas Brunnell is finito.

[Vonslydog]

Here is a fact: Very few QB's do well in a new system in their FIRST year, regardless of how long they have played. It takes a couple of years of understanding the playbook and offensive philosophy as well as allowing the coach to cater to the QB's strengths. It may seem odd...but Brunell, as bad as he appeared last year....could possibly look like a different person this year.
I've heard this before... Isn't this what a lot of people were saying about Patrick last season?
This argument is really invalid, because Ramsey and Brunell were in the same situation last year, so if you can say Brunell could look like a different person this year, you can say the same for Ramsey.
Ramsey and Brunell had about the same playing time last year, with about the same time to learn the playbook and offensive philosophy. The difference is, from where I sat, it looked like Ramsey progressed a lot from the beginning of the season to the end. Brunell regressed in the same period.

[gibbsisgod]

At the end of the year gibbs talked about how we improved in last 6 games. I feel the major factor was our leader behind the center. Gibbs will stay the course and not drop ramsey from the #1 spot.