Down a million, up a million

[PennSkinsFan]

The Redskins fell to $2 million under the cap yesterday. CB Walt Harris earned a million in incentibve for playing in 15 games. They will gain that million back by a minor restructure of Jansen's contract extension. His 2005 salary will be $2 million. $1 million of that will be converted to bonus saving on the cap. Take a friggin hint Samuels. Look what Jansen did for the team!

[DallasSux]

we need to trade or cut samuels because i dont think he will take a pay cut. we dont need him.

[Redskinmayhem]

I don't know about Sam. I'd like to keep him and create some continuity on the line.

[IowaSkinsFan]

we need to trade or cut samuels because i dont think he will take a pay cut. we dont need him.

We do need him, we just can't afford him.

[redwolf1218]

Samuels really has the team between a rock and a hard place here, but's that a position the team got itself into. maybe everyone just assumed he'd restructure in the final years of this backloaded deal, but hey, let's face it, maybe he won't. if he just sits there, would anyone want to take on his current deal plus give up something of value in a trade scenario? can the team afford to do nothing and pay him his salary this year and forage into free agency and the draft while assuming his current cap hit?

[dj_stouty]

Samuels restructured his deal before the 2003 season for the benefit of the team. He already has given to the team...

At some point, the team needs to take responsibility for their contracts and stop putting the pressure on the players who have backloaded contracts.

I agree that Samuels is not worth his '05 salary, however, I don't blame Samuels for not restructuring...

[PennSkinsFan]

Samuels restructured his deal before the 2003 season for the benefit of the team. He already has given to the team...

At some point, the team needs to take responsibility for their contracts and stop putting the pressure on the players who have backloaded contracts.

I agree that Samuels is not worth his '05 salary, however, I don't blame Samuels for not restructuring...

True, but I think they are looking more at extension than restruture.

[joethefan]

Samuels restructured his deal before the 2003 season for the benefit of the team. He already has given to the team...

At some point, the team needs to take responsibility for their contracts and stop putting the pressure on the players who have backloaded contracts.

I agree that Samuels is not worth his '05 salary, however, I don't blame Samuels for not restructuring...

that was one of the points i was trying to make on my "CONtract ALIIGNment" thread

[schmackledackle]

Samuels restructured his deal before the 2003 season for the benefit of the team. He already has given to the team...

At some point, the team needs to take responsibility for their contracts and stop putting the pressure on the players who have backloaded contracts.

I agree that Samuels is not worth his '05 salary, however, I don't blame Samuels for not restructuring...

Yep...

As long as the team keeps drawing up these asinine contracts that force us to make decisions like we had to with #48 and now with Samuels we are just asking for trouble.

The honus seems to always fall back on the player, but remember that the FO signed him to a contract and then agreed to restructure it the way it's set up now.

The team keeps digging its own holes....

[SkinsKY]

True, but I think they are looking more at extension than restruture.

A restructure here would be very shortsighted here. It gives relief for a year or two tops. I also think an extension would be the way to go here. That helps 3-4 years down the road if you do it right.

[dj_stouty]

True, but I think they are looking more at extension than restruture.

Extention...restructure...No matter how you slice it, the Redskins are asking Samuels to help them out. Samuels has already "taken one for the team", and he probably believes it is his right to earn the money from his final year.

Even if the Skins do extend him another 5 years, they will still have to pony up a big signing bonus (13? 14? 15 million?) and add additional salary to those final years. My biggest complaint is that he may not be worth the extra money...

[redwolf1218]

here's samuels cap hit this year: 9.643M, and next year: 11.320M. That's 20.963M total. the way he probably sees it, he can just sit on that, unless the teams wants to pony up that 20M total in a signing bonus on a new long-term deal. those are cap hit numbers, not salary. i'm not sure of the salary numbers, but he could use the same argument: give me my total salary over these 2 years in up front money, or i sit on the deal you already gave me.

[MoeRedskins]

Man, is Jon Jansen of the quintessentical Redskin or what. I have got to get his jersey. Samuels should help us out mostly because nobody will pay him what the Skins will restructe him for and I thought he liked being coached by Buges. At least I thought he said so. Wasn't he suppose to restructure like last month?

[Cruising270]

yeah I mean he is hurting the team by not renagotiating his contract BUT like you all said, we made his contract. In all fairness he took a risk too because what if he had a career ending injury or something and never saw the final days of his contract. This is the Redskins fault but I really hope he'd help us out!!!

[NamVet4]

While the $ question is of concern, its not about the extension, restructure, signing bonus and/or renegotiation. The question is: Is Samuels able to contribute to the TEAM? Can he be a player worth what he thinks he is?
Answer that question first and then see if the FO and the Coach agree!

And BTW, his prior "taking one for the Team" means very little if he can't perform for the Team!

[guinness4health]

We do need him, we just can't afford him.

thus the conundrum.....

[dj_stouty]

And BTW, his prior "taking one for the Team" means very little if he can't perform for the Team!

Very true...and I've been one of Samuels' biggest critics as far as his ability to stop the NFL's average DEs.

However, he did do a favor for the team. He could have forced the Redskins to release him prior to the 2003 season and leave them with a hefty cap hit. (Which would have impeded the Front Office's ability to sign Coles, Thomas and Hall) I don't think the FO shouldn't be the least bit offended if he doesn't restructure/extend again.

[smoak]

here's samuels cap hit this year: 9.643M, and next year: 11.320M. That's 20.963M total. the way he probably sees it, he can just sit on that, unless the teams wants to pony up that 20M total in a signing bonus on a new long-term deal. those are cap hit numbers, not salary. i'm not sure of the salary numbers, but he could use the same argument: give me my total salary over these 2 years in up front money, or i sit on the deal you already gave me.

but if we cut samuels he won't see any of nor will he get anyhthing close to that in FA.

[redwolf1218]

but if we cut samuels he won't see any of nor will he get anyhthing close to that in FA.
true, and cutting him might cause a ripple effect. someone might cut their guy and sign Samuels...other teams will be forced to make cuts. i mean, we lost Champ Bailey, but we turned around and got Springs. these guys are not totally irreplaceable. i wouldnt mind it too bad, to me it wouldnt be the end of the world if he got cut. i'm tired of thinking about his cap number.

[flave1969]

What Jansen has done for the team, Samuels has already done before. It is not his fault that his salary will be so big this year. I cannot see him giving up the kind of money unless he gets another sweet deal to compensate him. I dont see that we can afford that. I dont want to lose Samuels, but we cannot afford one player to command as much as he does when the return is not what we would hope. If they could work out a way to keep his salary around 5 or 6 mill a year then I would be OK with that, but too do that they have to extend over a long period.

It isn't going to happen. I would personally take the hit and look to rebuild the position.

[Sweepea436]

Agreed! :beer:
we need to trade or cut samuels because i dont think he will take a pay cut. we dont need him.

[techskinsfan]

The Redskins fell to $2 million under the cap yesterday. CB Walt Harris earned a million in incentibve for playing in 15 games. They will gain that million back by a minor restructure of Jansen's contract extension. His 2005 salary will be $2 million. $1 million of that will be converted to bonus saving on the cap. Take a friggin hint Samuels. Look what Jansen did for the team!
where did u get this info at...thats interesting i didnt think harris played in 15 games

[dj_stouty]

CB Walt Harris earned a million in incentibve for playing in 15 games.

Ladies and Gentlemen....your new starting cornerback for your Washington Redskins.

[vegeta2364]

I think all "core" redskins should look very hard at what Jansen did to help the team. Everyone knows we are in trouble, and I belivge that every "core" redskins should at least consider resturcturing for the good of team


way to go jansen! :flower1:

[BandWagon]

where did u get this info at...thats interesting i didnt think harris played in 15 games

Bottom of the Mitchell article...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30889-2005Feb16.html

[Skinz4lyfe]

Bottom line is Samuels hasn't performed up to the #2 draft pick level and he hasn't been earning his pay. He's a really good tackle but if he doesn't restructure, GET RID OF HIM!!

[Patrick]

While the $ question is of concern, its not about the extension, restructure, signing bonus and/or renegotiation. The question is: Is Samuels able to contribute to the TEAM? Can he be a player worth what he thinks he is?
Answer that question first and then see if the FO and the Coach agree!

And BTW, his prior "taking one for the Team" means very little if he can't perform for the Team!


Well put Andy ......................... AND before we ride Samuels out of town, I willing to take a "Wait&See" attitude. He has indicated that he's open for new restructure/extension of his contract - IF for no other reason than he knows he'll not make as much anywhere else.

[techskinsfan]

Bottom of the Mitchell article...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30889-2005Feb16.html
thanks man

edit: wait a minute werent we 4 mil under the cap?

[CNYSkinFan]

Ladies and Gentlemen....your new starting cornerback for your Washington Redskins.

I think you are right about that.

Listen Samuels is a decent enough tackle and I want to keep him but this isn't going to happen unless an extension is done.

All three parties are to blame for this mess. The player for signing a backloaded contract that created a neccesity to extend or be cut in the last two years, the Front Office for offering the contract, and the agent who negotiated the contract. Everyone knew that an extension would be needed at year 5 or a cut would be made.

This is not about whether Samuels thinks he earned this money or not. He knew the structure of his contract would either neccisitate an extension or a cut, bith resulting in the ability to get a guaranteed SB either from the skins or a new team.

The problem I have with Samuels is he said publicly he wanted to get this done so either he is letting his agent contradict his wishes to get back at the Redskins for the Ramsey incident or he was duplicitous trying to gain points through the media after a dissapointing end to the season.

If we extend he is our tackle for the next 5 years, at least. The question is whether or not we want this kind of player around. He is an Orlando PAce or Walter Jones in the making without the talent to put up with the constant contract demands. It may be better for the team to part now while they can.

[whitskins]

I am not going to start a new thread on this topic because I have no link, only confident chatter on other sites, but apparently Renaldo Wynn has restructured his contract that will save us 3 mil in cap space this year.

Anybody else hearing this?

[dj_stouty]

I am not going to start a new thread on this topic because I have no link, only confident chatter on other sites, but apparently Renaldo Wynn has restructured his contract that will save us 3 mil in cap space this year.

Anybody else hearing this?

I haven't hear this...but it is very possible. Wynn counts 4 million versues the '05 cap. That is waaaaaaaay too much money for a guy who only has 7.5 sacks in 3 full years in the B&G.

[redskin_rich]

I am not going to start a new thread on this topic because I have no link, only confident chatter on other sites, but apparently Renaldo Wynn has restructured his contract that will save us 3 mil in cap space this year.

Anybody else hearing this?
Yeah, they have the link on another site but you have to be registered to go on it. Supposedly Wynn's new cap number's will be- 2005-600k, 2006-1mil, 2007-2mil. I don't understand how this could be possible unless there is a big bonus in 2007.

[skins111111]

we need a stud LT and Sam is a stud......I really hope he restructures.......
we need some continunity on the OL and Stud LTs are hard to come by

[ConradCountry]

we need to trade or cut samuels because i dont think he will take a pay cut. we dont need him.

Trade Samuels and use the pick to draft Barnes.

[LATrueRedskin]

Hopefully some if this will rub off on Samuels. He can take a good look at what a true leader (Jansen and Wynn) does when his team needs him the most. Hopefully Samuels will drink the Kool-Aid, and really help this team out.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

Hopefully some if this will rub off on Samuels. He can take a good look at what a true leader (Jansen and Wynn) does when his team needs him the most. Hopefully Samuels will drink the Kool-Aid, and really help this team out.
yeah, hopefully chris isnt drinking the "green" (yes, i said "green", not lime, lol) kool-aid though. he has always said he wants to establish himself as more of a leader and now is his chance to prove it.

[LATrueRedskin]

yeah, hopefully chris isnt drinking the "green" (yes, i said "green", not lime, lol) kool-aid though. he has always said he wants to establish himself as more of a leader and now is his chance to prove it.

:lol1: I said green too growing up, and I still do. But I DID call the purple grape.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

:lol1: I said green too growing up, and I still do. But I DID call the purple grape.
yeah, but did you call strawberry, cherry or tropical punch "red"? lol.... :p

[LATrueRedskin]

yeah, but did you call strawberry, cherry or tropical punch "red"? lol.... :p

:lol1: I didn't know there was a difference between cherry, strawberry, or tropical punch. It was all just "red."

[garedskin]

I don't know about Sam. I'd like to keep him and create some continuity on the line.

Agreed.With Jansen coming back and with some FA moves(signing a couple of blocking TEs) The line will be improved.Bugels 1st year in 81 the line was shakey at best, it developed each year.Just give it some time.It will be thier 3rd year as a group (2nd in this system).Getting rid of Samuels would be a step back for the O-line not an improvement as some seem to think.Anyone remember Shar Pournadesh? That is why we drafted Samuels with the 3rd overall pick in 2000 :Peace: