Patrick Ramsey restructures?????

[Redskinfan28]

http://mb9.scout.com/fcpndhardcorefrm1.showMessage?topicID=42238.topic

[whitskins]

Gosh dang darn it I'm not a CPND member, what does it say? Thanks!

[Ramsey2Moss]

Post What Is Says Darnit!!!

[Redskinfan28]

The full post:

Ramsey's new figures:

2005: Base salary dropped from $1.602M to the 4th-year minimum of $455,000
2006: Base salary INCREASED from $1.188M to $1.688M

This could be a couple things:

1. It could be a simple restructuring with his 2005 base salary being reduced from $1.602M to $455,000 with the difference being made up via a signing bonus, with the increase in 2006 due to an escalator (his 2005 base salary recently increased $500,000 from $1.102M to $1.602M because of an escalator, so another $500,000 escalator for 2006 would make sense). In this case, the $1.147M bonus he would receive would be prorated $573,500 for 2005 and 2006. Along with the $620,000 allocation from his 2002 rookie signing bonus and adjusted base salary, his 2005 cap number would be $1.649M, a savings of $573,000 from his previous 2005 cap number of $2.222M.

2. He could have reduced his base salary from $1.602M to $455,000 with SOME of the difference being paid via a signing bonus, and the rest being transferred to his 2006 base salary. In this case, he would have received a $647,000 signing bonus with the remaining $500,000 being pushed to his 2006 base salary. In this case, the $647,000 bonus would be prorated $323,500 for 2005 and 2006. Along with the $620,000 allocation from his rookie signing bonus and adjusted base salary, his 2005 cap number would be $1.399M, a savings of $823,000 from his previous 2005 cap number of $2.222M; this would save $250,000 more from his 2005 cap number than the first scenario, but would cost $250,000 more on his 2006 cap number.

Either way, it looks like these moves are making it more and more likely that Samuels will be here regardless, just as I predicted two months ago. Also, the positive here is it shows that Jimmy Sexton, the agent for Ramsey and Samuels, is willing to work with the Redskins on these matters, no matter how small a sign this may be.

[PennSkinsFan]

Yeah, this tells me three things:

1. A signing (maybe Pierce) is happening very soon or;

2. Chris Samuels resturcture does not look like it is moving forward at all, he will be kept regradless, and they are making room in other ways or;

3. Both

[Ramsey2Moss]

Yeah, this tells me three things:

1. A signing (maybe Pierce) is happening very soon or;

2. Chris Samuels resturcture does not look like it is moving forward at all, he will be kept regradless, and they are making room in other ways or;

3. Both
Very true. Looks like we will keep Samuels anyway but I agree Pierce will most likely sign soon.

[PA Skins Girl]

It tells me they are gearing up to make a big splash in the FA Market. March 2 is the offseason superbowl for us! I gotta admit, I love this time of year!

[akhhorus]

I dont care how many other restructure the skins do, I doubt they will keep Samuels.

[MONK_in_HOF]

I thought this season was Ramsey's last on his current contract. Does this mean he extended?

[PA Skins Girl]

I thought this season was Ramsey's last on his current contract. Does this mean he extended?
Nope. His rookie contract is through 2006.

[akhhorus]

I thought this season was Ramsey's last on his current contract. Does this mean he extended?

nah, i think it went to 06 before this.

[Taylor_36]

Question: With Wynn, Patrick and Jansen restructuring thier contracts and giving the redskins more $$$, would this also mean trying to seriously signing Smoot along with Pierce, Joe Salavia?

[LATrueRedskin]

Good move by Pat. He's freeing up some space in order to help this team get better. Seems like these cap guys really know what they're doing and are working for their money.

[guinness4health]

this is a nice move by ramsey....chris are you getting the hint yet?????

[whistleandthumb]

Man, if Samuels can just get something agreed upon to lower that cap number, we'll be in good shape. This is a good sign to me that Ram wants to make sure this team gets whatever it needs to win, and to win now. Good team player...

[bwparker]

I am so happy!

[whitskins]

Question: With Wynn, Patrick and Jansen restructuring thier contracts and giving the redskins more $$$, would this also mean trying to seriously signing Smoot along with Pierce, Joe Salavia?

I think it's more likely we're reving up to go after a big time WR on March 2nd. I'm sure Ramsey had no problem restructuring if the money is going towards a big, fast stud to light up the scoreboard.

[whistleandthumb]

I think it's more likely we're reving up to go after a big time WR on March 2nd. I'm sure Ramsey had no problem restructuring if the money is going towards a big, fast stud to light up the scoreboard.
Exactly, because the better the receiver we get, the better he looks, which means more money for him in 2006.

[PA Skins Girl]

This is great, especially considering how upset Jimmy Sexton was when they brought in Brunell. I would be happier if they signed Ramsey to an extension though. I'm scared to death that he will have a steller year and we wont be able to resign him.

[joethefan]

I admire Pat and Wynn's move to restructure..

[MONK_in_HOF]

It is admirable considering Ramsey's numbers for 05 already were so low, especially for a starting QB. I guess this helps offset the extreme cost of our backup a bit.

[Spence]

If Ramsey plays well this season he'll see that money. If not, they'll cut him along with Brunell and start over on June 1, 2006. It's a relatively painless way for the Skins to clear some cap space.

[rskinsfan10]

It is admirable considering Ramsey's numbers for 05 already were so low, especially for a starting QB. I guess this helps offset the extreme cost of our backup a bit.

If I recall, he has bonuses tied into playing time, so while it may look like he is taking a hit, if he stays on the field as he anticipates he will, he will make more then what those numbers say.

[Santheb]

Wasn't Patricks contract for only* about 5 million anyway...?

*-Don't take the word "only" there the wrong way. 5 million is more money than I would ever need :P

[dj_stouty]

If I recall, he has bonuses tied into playing time, so while it may look like he is taking a hit, if he stays on the filed as he anticipates he will, he will make more then what those numbers say.

You are 100% correct. Ramsey has escalators in his contract that gives him bonuses depending on the % of snaps he takes at center in any given year.

Not sure how those are represented here....

[Ramsey2Moss]

I agree with whoever said that we could be revving up to go get a free agent WR....and all signs point to Porter!

[D-Ruck #8]

This will definitley help Snyder sign Jerry Porter. I have a good feeling that Ramseys gonna have a good season in '06.

[Skins57]

If Ramsey plays well this season he'll see that money. If not, they'll cut him along with Brunell and start over on June 1, 2006. It's a relatively painless way for the Skins to clear some cap space.


exactly, good move by the Skins. Ram will be paid if he plays well next year

[PA Skins Girl]

Ya know what, Ramsey's contract is based on incentives. At the start of last season, the NFL made assumptions as to what incentives he would reach. If he doesnt reach those, the team gets a cap rebate the following year. Maybe this is just a reflection of a cap rebate. I dont know, just speculating. I dont really understand why Ramsey would restructure, since is cap number was relatively low already.

[Skins57]

I agree with whoever said that we could be revving up to go get a free agent WR....and all signs point to Porter!


Man I hope not

[BandWagon]

If I recall, he has bonuses tied into playing time, so while it may look like he is taking a hit, if he stays on the field as he anticipates he will, he will make more then what those numbers say.

I think it was over 50% of the playing time. Is anyone skeptical of these reports? Is this site the two reports came from today reputable? And if so, how come they're the only ones carrying the story. I hate to get excited if this is fluff.

[whitskins]

Well Wynn's restructure was reported in an evening story in the Post, the link is floating around here somewhere. The news on Patrick came much later in the day, I'm buying this.

[BandWagon]

Well Wynn's restructure was reported in an evening story in the Post, the link is floating around here somewhere. The news on Patrick came much later in the day, I'm buying this.

Yeah just saw the Post piece. Good deal, stuff is finally starting to break.

[skins111111]

who's next....looks like their clearing cap space for FA alright..........Porter signing wouldn't supprise me

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

If Ramsey plays well this season he'll see that money. If not, they'll cut him along with Brunell and start over on June 1, 2006. It's a relatively painless way for the Skins to clear some cap space.
thats what i was thinking. if pat does what he is supposed to do in the next 2 seasons, he will get that $$$ back and then some. good move by him.

i thought that sexton was going to play hardball with the redskins, since he is the agent for both Ram and Samuels.

[portis2endzone]

i thought that sexton was going to play hardball with the redskins, since he is the agent for both Ram and Samuels.
i think the agent has to do what the player wants. the player is the one who hires the agent and tells him what he wants. so in this case ram wanted to restructure then his agent would have to listen. so now all we need is for samuels to catch wind of all these restructures and say hey maby i should too...

[Ramsey2Moss]

Wow imagine if we get Samuels to restructure and then we resign Pierce and sign Porter, draft Antrelle Rolle....wow sorry guys, this is just so awesome (still starstruck by VT beating Duke).

[Taylor_36]

I expect Pierce to sign very soon!, along with Joe Salavia. I havent dont my research on Porter but how good is this guy? Worth a big contract? Help the passing game?

[PennSkinsFan]

I expect Pierce to sign very soon!, along with Joe Salavia. I havent dont my research on Porter but how good is this guy? Worth a big contract? Help the passing game?

Gibbs pretty much rules out a bi gtime WR and we dont have the money even with the Wynn and Ramsey restructures. Remember guys, we have to resign Pierce, Salave'a and our first round pick. That requires cap room.

[Taylor_36]

I predict Pierce the first to resign!

[Vonslydog]

I'm in the camp that thinks this restructure has something to do with Samuels. Last year when Ram asked to be traded, there was a lot of talk about how that would affect the Samuels restructure since they had the same agent. Some reports were talking like if the 'skins screwed Ramsey, their agent would make things difficult regarding Samuels restructure. I can't help but think their agent is playing this from both sides. It seems like he's almost saying "Look, I helped you with the cap by working on a Ramsey restructure, now you help me with a Samuels resigning." I really hope Ramsey meets all his escalator requirements and will get everything that is coming to him, and that we extend Samuels to a fair long term contract. Only time will tell.

[dogfight6]

Well done Patrick. I'm in the camp that would love to see Porter here. I'm also in the camp that wants Samules to restructure way down to what a second tier LT. deserves or step aside and let Buges turn one of the younger guys into a true REDSKIN!

[IowaSkinsFan]

You are 100% correct. Ramsey has escalators in his contract that gives him bonuses depending on the % of snaps he takes at center in any given year.

Not sure how those are represented here....

Those numbers should have been present in the total value of his contract when he first signed. Obviously he will not have hit all his escalators since he hasn't always been a starter, so the total he will have been paid by the Redskins under his original deal should be less than $5million, which was around the total value of his rookie contract I believe.

[PA Skins Girl]

I am in the camp of trying to sign Porter AND drafting Mike Williams if he's there at #9.

[joethefan]

I am in the camp of trying to sign Porter AND drafting Mike Williams if he's there at #9.

Wow Mom you're the first one I have heard say that....Wow That's kind of Wicked isn't it....?....... :lol1:

[dj_stouty]

Those numbers should have been present in the total value of his contract when he first signed. Obviously he will not have hit all his escalators since he hasn't always been a starter, so the total he will have been paid by the Redskins under his original deal should be less than $5million, which was around the total value of his rookie contract I believe.

THis is the only thing I can find on Ramsey's escalators...

Escalators based on percentage of offensive plays: 50%=$2.5M, 70%=$2.7M.

I'm not exactly sure if that means his annual total pay for the year will be 2.5 or 2.7 million...

Regardless, Ramsey took 53% of the passing attemps. I'm not sure the % of total offensive plays, though....

[smoak]

Question: With Wynn, Patrick and Jansen restructuring thier contracts and giving the redskins more $$$, would this also mean trying to seriously signing Smoot along with Pierce, Joe Salavia?

IMO the offer to Smoot was more than fair and it should be "take or leave it"... That said, maybe he is reconsidering?

[skinsfan44]

I'm gald the Redskins are freeing up some cap space in restructering the contracts of Wynn and Ramsey, but shouldn't Burnell be the one doing this, not Ramsey?

Or is it that Brunell is next?

I sure hope so.

[MONK_in_HOF]

IMO the offer to Smoot was more than fair and it should be "take or leave it"... That said, maybe he is reconsidering?

I agree, given the actually offered what they said they did. And all the sound bytes I hear from Smoot seems like he is talking w/ a different tone that when he was happy to be a Skin. Almost as if he is insulted. I don't like how he is continually mentions talking to Champ. I am sure Champ isn't telling him to stay here.

[COUNCILMAN]

Yeah, this tells me three things:

1. A signing (maybe Pierce) is happening very soon or;

2. Chris Samuels resturcture does not look like it is moving forward at all, he will be kept regradless, and they are making room in other ways or;

3. Both


I agree without. I disagree with the people who say this is because we are getting ready to attack the free agent market. I see this as a way to resign the players we have, namely Samuels and/or Pierce. I also see this attempt, at restructing certain contracts, as a way to isolate those players who will be labeled as CORE Redskins.


I see the Skins going after maybe 1 big free agent name this year....only one. Anybody else in free agency is going to have to be a bargain

[BIGSEF3]

I dont care how many other restructure the skins do, I doubt they will keep Samuels.

i agree, we could get 2 or 3 linemen with samuels playing ability for the price samuels will cost us this year. he is NOT worth even half wht he's making. i think he's as good as gone.

in all honesty, i can see the skins cutting samuels and using the extra money to keep smoot. it sounded like smoot only wanted a about 4M extra than we were offering, and whats 4M if they spread it over 4 years, if they are making some extra room? perhaps they can meet halfway?

[MoeRedskins]

Is it me, or is everybody else on the team restructuring their deal except for Chris Samuels. His is the only contract that needs major tooling, but for some reason nothing is being done on it. You can chip away at the paint all you want, but you can't do anything unless you remove the wall.

[Spence]

You are 100% correct. Ramsey has escalators in his contract that gives him bonuses depending on the % of snaps he takes at center in any given year.That's why Ramsey and his agent reacted so negatively to the signing of Brunell last year. It wasn't just the starting job Ramsey stood to lose. Money was taken out of his pocket.

[chrisbcbu]

More great news..i wonder if Randy thomas will restructure his contract. He does have a pretty decent cap number. But if Ramsey restructured why not him.

I also agree that we needed the room to sign a FA.

[Keino]

It tells me they are gearing up to make a big splash in the FA Market. March 2 is the offseason superbowl for us! I gotta admit, I love this time of year!

Me, I used to feel that way. Now I'm starting to Loathe, despise and detest this time of year. Im sick of being Summerbowl Champs. I'd like to be low key in the off-season for a change and then make a huge splash in December of 2005.....

[PennSkinsFan]

That's why Ramsey and his agent reacted so negatively to the signing of Brunell last year. It wasn't just the starting job Ramsey stood to lose. Money was taken out of his pocket.

Yup, and I think that is where we as fans lose touch. We look at this from a football standpoint, from a field perspective, when business truly dominates decision making.

[RedskinsVision]

a good QB thinks of his team first because the team needs a good QB to be successful. hopefully this will equate to a smoother ride in the second year in Gibbs' system.

[Vonslydog]

i agree, we could get 2 or 3 linemen with samuels playing ability for the price samuels will cost us this year. he is NOT worth even half wht he's making. i think he's as good as gone.
Out of curiosity, what 3 linemen can we get with Samuels ability for the price Samuels will cost us this year? That's a bold statement.

[PA Skins Girl]

In case anyone was still skepical (like I was), the WP article on Lemar Marshall's re-signing confirms it (ya'll probably knew that already though):

"Marshall's signing came after left tackle Jon Jansen, quarterback Patrick Ramsey and defensive end Renaldo Wynn restructured their contracts to provide the Redskins some relief under the salary cap."

Way to go Patrick. Way to go Jimmy Sexton (or is his agent Rosenhaus??).

[PA Skins Girl]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PA Skins Girl
I am in the camp of trying to sign Porter AND drafting Mike Williams if he's there at #9.

JoetheFan
Wow Mom you're the first one I have heard say that....Wow That's kind of Wicked isn't it....?.......

PA Skins Girl
It might be wicked, but it's not out of the realm of possibilities.

[BIGSEF3]

Out of curiosity, what 3 linemen can we get with Samuels ability for the price Samuels will cost us this year? That's a bold statement.

i dont really care, to be honest with you. samuels is a good solid player. but hes not good enough where i feel he really sticks out that far above your average starting LT.

heck, jansen is the man, but a 41 year old guy named ray brown did a fairly decent job of filling in for him this year. personally, i think we have two rookies from 2004, who will be 2nd year players who could possibly step up to the task. molarino and wilson. with bugel coaching them, they could really be something.

you're right, it was a pretty bold statement. i dont know what the FA market is going to have this year for a good LT, but samuels does not appear to be willing to restructure to something that can help the skins out. if we cut him, it will be for the good of the team, and it will work out. we will find somebody.

[Vonslydog]

i dont really care, to be honest with you. samuels is a good solid player. but hes not good enough where i feel he really sticks out that far above your average starting LT.

heck, jansen is the man, but a 41 year old guy named ray brown did a fairly decent job of filling in for him this year. personally, i think we have two rookies from 2004, who will be 2nd year players who could possibly step up to the task. molarino and wilson. with bugel coaching them, they could really be something.

you're right, it was a pretty bold statement. i dont know what the FA market is going to have this year for a good LT, but samuels does not appear to be willing to restructure to something that can help the skins out. if we cut him, it will be for the good of the team, and it will work out. we will find somebody.
Wow. So your argument is we should cut Samuels, and you don't care who replaces him? Maybe we should move Ray Brown to LT since he did a "fairly decent job of filling in" last year. The fact of the matter is Samuels is NOT an average LT. He may not be one of the elites anymore, but he's still above average. I'm not saying that he's worth the price he will cost this season, but it's foolish to just decide to cut him without any plan or care who will replace him. Samuels is better than any of the backups on the team, and I can't think of any available free agents that are any better either. Just because he hasn't restructured yet, everyone is ramping up to cut him. We haven't even hit free agency yet. He hasn't said he WON'T restructure yet, he just HASN'T restuctured yet. Negotiations aren't always easy. Until he says restructuring is not an option, that route is still the best for this team. He should not be cut until that point.

By the way... you're not contending that Ray Brown played better than Samuels last year are you? I didn't think you were, but I just wanted to be sure.

[bwparker]

Wow. So your argument is we should cut Samuels, and you don't care who replaces him? Maybe we should move Ray Brown to LT since he did a "fairly decent job of filling in" last year. The fact of the matter is Samuels is NOT an average LT. He may not be one of the elites anymore, but he's still above average. I'm not saying that he's worth the price he will cost this season, but it's foolish to just decide to cut him without any plan or care who will replace him. Samuels is better than any of the backups on the team, and I can't think of any available free agents that are any better either. Just because he hasn't restructured yet, everyone is ramping up to cut him. We haven't even hit free agency yet. He hasn't said he WON'T restructure yet, he just HASN'T restuctured yet. Negotiations aren't always easy. Until he says restructuring is not an option, that route is still the best for this team. He should not be cut until that point.

By the way... you're not contending that Ray Brown played better than Samuels last year are you? I didn't think you were, but I just wanted to be sure.
That covers my opinion on the topic. Vonslydog, I may just wait till after you post from now on. That way all I'll have to type is "yes"

[IowaSkinsFan]

Me, I used to feel that way. Now I'm starting to Loathe, despise and detest this time of year. Im sick of being Summerbowl Champs. I'd like to be low key in the off-season for a change and then make a huge splash in December of 2005.....

I vote for January 2006!

[swheeler]

All this restructuring is great for now, but are we going to get burned by it in the future?

[Beast56Redskin]

i think the issue with samuels may be that we are trying to EXTEND his contract rather than just restructure it...

[chrisbcbu]

i think the issue with samuels may be that we are trying to EXTEND his contract rather than just restructure it...

Yes that is what they are trying to do. That way we can lay more into a SB and extend it throughout his contract.

[GoDannyBoy]

This is great, especially considering how upset Jimmy Sexton was when they brought in Brunell. I would be happier if they signed Ramsey to an extension though. I'm scared to death that he will have a steller year and we wont be able to resign him.

A lot of teams identify their key players and sign them before their contacts expire. This avoids having a lot of bad feelings and you can get the guy a little cheaper in the long run.

I suspect that there are doubts at Redskin Park about Ramsey, or else I would suspect that they would have extended him.

[PA Skins Girl]

A lot of teams identify their key players and sign them before their contacts expire. This avoids having a lot of bad feelings and you can get the guy a little cheaper in the long run.

I suspect that there are doubts at Redskin Park about Ramsey, or else I would suspect that they would have extended him.Yeah, I know. But we are gambling that he wont have a big year. I'd rather gamble that he will, and get him locked in. The thought of losing Patrick after two more years and having to start over with the QB carousel is frightening.

[GoDannyBoy]

Yeah, I know. But we are gambling that he wont have a big year. I'd rather gamble that he will, and get him locked in. The thought of losing Patrick after two more years and having to start over with the QB carousel is frightening.
Starting over at QB would be a disaster! We would lose two or three yrs and even then it would be a gamble with the new QB. I think that we could win some games with Ram, sign him to a friendly extension. Draft a young QB to groom as the future. If Ram becomes the the Star we don't need the young kid(also we don't immediately lose him to FA). If Ram is a journeyman then we could have done worse for a few years with some other guy.

Let get off the QB carosel by planning for the future.

[silverspring]

Yeah, I know. But we are gambling that he wont have a big year. I'd rather gamble that he will, and get him locked in. The thought of losing Patrick after two more years and having to start over with the QB carousel is frightening.

i couldn't agree more