The Coles Contract Situation Thread [Keep it in here!]

[Davey]

I've been thinking along the same general lines. If Coles wasn't going to get the surgery he was overpaid, but unreleasable due to the cap hit. In the long run I think this will be beneficial to the Redskins.

[joethefan]

I very good point, think Jacobs could hold it down...if given the opportunity....I also believe this is another stepping stone to the resisting to change. There will be more.

[whitskins]

He and the other ex-Jets were brought in to win and they did not do it, this is not fantasy football. We wound up making the playoffs again after 1 season away and you guyd didn't come close despite lofty expectations each year. those moves have to be considered failures, sure it could have been worse and you could have gotten Price but the bottom line is the moves didn't help the W-L record.

Chad Morton was a terrible signing. Coles got injured, unfortunately a chronic and lingering injury, he will very likely never be the same player again, sucks but it happens.

Hindsight is 20/20, I don't see how this argument works, Thomas and Hall have been very good, Hall hurt himself this year but he'll be ok next year and is a very good kicker.

Coles got paid very well to be a dominant player, he was until he got injured, that's nobodies fault, we're dealing with it. The Jets recovered from losing Coles by plugging in Santana Moss, we'll have to do the same with Taylor Jacobs.

[akhhorus]

What holes? When you guys acquired those 4 I never heard the end of it, I told you then you overpaid and the moves were good for us in the long run and I turned out to be right. I'm not usually one to crow when I'm right(I never came in here and said anything about the skins the past 2 years w/ those guys) but I took so much grief that i had to say something here.

The Jets made the playoffs this year(shouldnt have won that game against the Chargers). Thats not doing too great either. Coles had 2000 yards in two years, despite a bad offense and injury. He was fine. Randy Thomas was a good pick up: as was John Hall. Morton was a bad decision.

[whitskins]

What holes? When you guys acquired those 4 I never heard the end of it, I told you then you overpaid and the moves were good for us in the long run and I turned out to be right. I'm not usually one to crow when I'm right(I never came in here and said anything about the skins the past 2 years w/ those guys) but I took so much grief that i had to say something here.

You were only right on Morton. Coles got injured, you clearly didn't know that the Jets would be better off b/c Coles would hurt himself and never be the same player after that.

You recovered from losing Randy Thomas, good job, and failed to replace John Hall, having a kicker now who cost you a playoff game. The money we paid to Coles is irrelevant b/c him giving back a portion of the SB makes him practically a wash, therefore you win on Morton.

[Taylor_36]

If a player or anyone for that matter does not want to be here it will be taken care of. So this is anew begining as to say that the players will be "true Redskins" or they will not be here. No more guys like Deion or the likes, if you are not happy here it will be fixed

Once we get "true Skins" in here this team will be set for a good many years even after Joe leaves

[nyjunc]

The Jets made the playoffs this year(shouldnt have won that game against the Chargers). Thats not doing too great either. Coles had 2000 yards in two years, despite a bad offense and injury. He was fine. Randy Thomas was a good pick up: as was John Hall. Morton was a bad decision.

Why shouldn't we have won the game against the Chargers? b/c their K missed a FG in OT? i guess you forgot we had the game won until a personal foul on Eric Barton allowed SD to tie it up. We should have won in OT and if you think SD should have won then you must think we should have won at Pitt and should have been playing in the AFC Title Game b/c Brien msised 2 makeable FGs to win it. That was a good year and we are now younger, better and have cap room. W/o those moves in '03 we would have had major cap troubles.

You were only right on Morton. Coles got injured, you clearly didn't know that the Jets would be better off b/c Coles would hurt himself and never be the same player after that.

It had nothing to do w/ Coles being hurt. I thought we got the better end even if Coles had not been hurt, Coles was very productive even though he was hurt but we got Dewayne Robertson who is a big time DT, acquired Justin McCareins who is a good WR, acquired Pete kendall who I think is as good or better than Thomas, got brien who was as good or better than Hall and our KR's have 2 KR TDs in the last 2 years w/o Morton PLUS we saved a ton of cap room allowing us to re-sign Chad, Ellis and john Abraham.

[akhhorus]

It had nothing to do w/ Coles being hurt. I thought we got the better end even if Coles had not been hurt, Coles was very productive even though he was hurt but we got Dewayne Robertson who is a big time DT, acquired Justin McCareins who is a good WR, acquired Pete kendall who I think is as good or better than Thomas, got brien who was as good or better than Hall and our KR's have 2 KR TDs in the last 2 years w/o Morton PLUS we saved a ton of cap room allowing us to re-sign Chad, Ellis and john Abraham.

Basically the trade was Dewayne Robinson for Coles. The Skins won that trade. Robinson has show flashes, but nothing consistant, nor has he shown being worth the #4 pick. Thomas is better than Kendall. You downgraded your team and saved some cap room, but you aren't a better team for it.

[bwparker]

What holes? When you guys acquired those 4 I never heard the end of it, I told you then you overpaid and the moves were good for us in the long run and I turned out to be right. I'm not usually one to crow when I'm right(I never came in here and said anything about the skins the past 2 years w/ those guys) but I took so much grief that i had to say something here.
Sorry for any trash talking others have done(I just joined a few weeks ago)

But the problem I had with the arguement is that we grabbed 4 guys of your roster, but there are 53 on a team. Its not like we had 49 great players and these for would bring us to the promised land. Yes they were brought into win, but they are not reason we didn't, there are many others. Even in hindsight, I don't regret getting anyone one of these guys.

-Morton brought stability to our return unit(Even though now we have no need for him)
-Thomas has been great
-Hall had an injury plagued season, but that doesn't make him a bad choice
-Coles has preformed extremely well(Now he wants out and that sucks, but it was still a good move to make)

If you get a guy and he gets injured it doesn't make it a bad decision(unless you had reason to believe he would get injured before you signed him). The soundness of a desicion is not based ENTIRELY on its outcome. If I am killed at by a criminal at Safeway tomorrow, because I wanted a bag of M&Ms it doesn't make going to the grocery store a bad desicion. Because I had no way of knowing what would happen...it just bad luck

[joethefan]

Chad Morton was a terrible signing. Coles got injured, unfortunately a chronic and lingering injury, he will very likely never be the same player again, sucks but it happens.



Another one of trick Danny's moves..See ya coles, 50/50, MCCants, Morton, Smoot and Samuels if you're not careful.

[whitskins]

It had nothing to do w/ Coles being hurt. I thought we got the better end even if Coles had not been hurt, Coles was very productive even though he was hurt but we got Dewayne Robertson who is a big time DT, acquired Justin McCareins who is a good WR, acquired Pete kendall who I think is as good or better than Thomas, got brien who was as good or better than Hall and our KR's have 2 KR TDs in the last 2 years w/o Morton PLUS we saved a ton of cap room allowing us to re-sign Chad, Ellis and john Abraham.

Isn't Dewayne Robertson irrelevant to this conversation? the draft pick you got for Coles was used on Ty Warren. McCareins is a good WR but not even as productive as an injured Coles and you gave up a 2nd rounder to get him, I believe. The reason you guys made out so well after letting Coles go was because Santana Moss flourished, that's great for you guys and we have to hope Taylor Jacobs can do the same.

But Coles, when healthy, was absolutely worth what we paid him, he made the Pro Bowl on the strength of basically 3/4s of a season, but you saved money and got Ty Warren, if you think that's as good or better than fine. But Coles got hurt and became a shadow of his former self, so it does has something to do with his injury. Were you really sitting back when Coles was being called the best signing of the season early last year and saying "Jeez, I'm glad we let him go".

Morton was a bad signing, Randy Thomas is a Pro Bowl caliber lineman and our best lineman, Brien in no way is as good or better than Hall, Hall got injured and we brought in Jeff Chandler who is better than Brien. I'll give you Morton and blame Coles on an injury.

[Cruising270]

Wow this was a shocker. I wasn't on the board, but a co-worker came to my desk telling me the news and I was SHOCKED. I got on here and read the story in the link, then some of your posts. At first I was pissed and let down by coles who despite his injury did play hard.

After reading some insight from you all and thinking about the redskins cap situation and player situation I think this might be better for the team.

We were seeking another reciever with more speed to help stretch the field and with Coles injury and loss of speed he would probably be more of the short pass guy. We would have been paying him alot for not being the calibur reciever we signed him as. I really wanted to see some of our hungry players that rode the bench last year get more of a chance at starting (ex Taylor Jacobs, James Trash) I have nothing against Coles and it is sad that he doesn't have faith in Gibbs getting the offense going....but I'd rather see no Coles than an unhappy one.

I'm really intrigued who will be our starting wide outs next season

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

Sorry for any trash talking others have done(I just joined a few weeks ago)

But the problem I had with the arguement is that we grabbed 4 guys of your roster, but there are 53 on a team. Its not like we had 49 great players and these for would bring us to the promised land. Yes they were brought into win, but they are not reason we didn't, there are many others. Even in hindsight, I don't regret getting anyone one of these guys.

-Morton brought stability to our return unit(Even though now we have no need for him)
-Thomas has been great
-Hall had an injury plagued season, but that doesn't make him a bad choice
-Coles has preformed extremely well(Now he wants out and that sucks, but it was still a good move to make)

If you get a guy and he gets injured it doesn't make it a bad decision(unless you had reason to believe he would get injured before you signed him). The soundness of a desicion is not based ENTIRELY on its outcome. If I am killed at by a criminal at Safeway tomorrow, because I wanted a bag of M&Ms it doesn't make going to the grocery store a bad desicion. Because I had no way of knowing what would happen...it just bad luck
good post bw. :) i was just going to say something very similar. the 4 ex-jets we brought in were not the final pieces of the super bowl pieces that were going to put us over the top. we needed a receiver for spurrier's offense and if the skins had to do it over again im sure they would pick LC over all the receivers they had to choose from.

[nyjunc]

Basically the trade was Dewayne Robinson for Coles. The Skins won that trade. Robinson has show flashes, but nothing consistant, nor has he shown being worth the #4 pick. Thomas is better than Kendall. You downgraded your team and saved some cap room, but you aren't a better team for it.

Are you kidding me? I don't think there was a better DT in the league this year and many opposing coaches uttered the same thing. He was dominant this year and it was only year 2 and I'll take a dominant DT over a WR any day. The only area we downgraded w/ the 4 losses was w/ Coles and we got a dominant DT then got a very good receiver the next year in McCareins. Elsewhere I think kendall is better overall, Thomas a better pass blocker but Kendall a much better run blocker and the others are a wash.

But the problem I had with the arguement is that we grabbed 4 guys of your roster, but there are 53 on a team. Its not like we had 49 great players and these for would bring us to the promised land. Yes they were brought into win, but they are not reason we didn't, there are many others. Even in hindsight, I don't regret getting anyone one of these guys.

You guys were 7-9 and looking to take that next step to become a playoff team and many people thought you did it w/ those movs and that is what was expected so even thought most of them were good playesr for you when you haven't won I don't think you can consider it a success. I have had this argumetn w/ Dolphin fans about Ricky Williams(before last year), yeah he put up a great season in '02 and good season in '03 but he was brought in to be the final piece to a SB puzzle and they didn't make the playoffs so that move was not a success.

If you get a guy and he gets injured it doesn't make it a bad decision(unless you had reason to believe he would get injured before you signed him). The soundness of a desicion is not based ENTIRELY on its outcome. If I am killed at by a criminal at Safeway tomorrow, because I wanted a bag of M&Ms it doesn't make going to the grocery store a bad desicion. Because I had no way of knowing what would happen...it just bad luck

You are right but you overpaid for all 4 and yuo still didn't win w/ them so it has to be considerd a failure. You can't really use Coles injury as an excuse as he still produced, he isn't being released b/c he can't play anymore and either way those are the risks when you give a huge signing bonus to a very good NOT great WR. The SB he got was alot more than he deserved, TO didn't come anywhere near $13 mil.

[PA Skins Girl]

The Jets get the last laugh. Anyway you look at it. I can deal with that.

[nyjunc]

Isn't Dewayne Robertson irrelevant to this conversation? the draft pick you got for Coles was used on Ty Warren.

Ty warren is on NE, we used the pick we got from yuo for Coles to trade up to talk Robertson.

McCareins is a good WR but not even as productive as an injured Coles and you gave up a 2nd rounder to get him, I believe. The reason you guys made out so well after letting Coles go was because Santana Moss flourished, that's great for you guys and we have to hope Taylor Jacobs can do the same.

McCareins is definitely not as good but he's a good player and a good duo w/ Santana. he became Chad's go to guy late in the year and I look for a big year from Justin in year 2 w/ a healthy Chad.

But Coles, when healthy, was absolutely worth what we paid him, he made the Pro Bowl on the strength of basically 3/4s of a season,

he made the Pro Bowl b/c other injured players couldn't play, he didn't make the original roster. Anyway, Coles is a very good player and was for you guys. That's not my argument, he was brought in to help you win along w/ the other Jets and it didnt work out and now he is gone just 2 years later.

Brien in no way is as good or better than Hall, Hall got injured and we brought in Jeff Chandler who is better than Brien.

I watched Hall for 6 years and I know Brien is as good. Hall has a much better leg but Brien is much more consistent.

[akhhorus]

Are you kidding me? I don't think there was a better DT in the league this year and many opposing coaches uttered the same thing. He was dominant this year and it was only year 2 and I'll take a dominant DT over a WR any day. The only area we downgraded w/ the 4 losses was w/ Coles and we got a dominant DT then got a very good receiver the next year in McCareins. Elsewhere I think kendall is better overall, Thomas a better pass blocker but Kendall a much better run blocker and the others are a wash.

You are on something. Dewayne Robertson was NO-WHERE near a "dominant" player: he had 3 sacks and 36 tackles. How come he didnt even get a whiff of the pro bowl or any writer's best players? Corey Simon and Griffin had much better years. And Robertson had no excuse not getting more sacks and tackles: Ellis and Abraham are on the line with him.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

Are you kidding me? I don't think there was a better DT in the league this year and many opposing coaches uttered the same thing. He was dominant this year and it was only year 2 and I'll take a dominant DT over a WR any day.

So, being the best DT in the league, he, uh... he made the Pro Bowl... right?

[whitskins]

You are right but you overpaid for all 4 and yuo still didn't win w/ them so it has to be considerd a failure. You can't really use Coles injury as an excuse as he still produced, he isn't being released b/c he can't play anymore and either way those are the risks when you give a huge signing bonus to a very good NOT great WR. The SB he got was alot more than he deserved, TO didn't come anywhere near $13 mil.

So if Chad pennington blows out his shoulder or doesn't completely heal from surgery his signing was a failure? If John Abraham injures his knee again, his signing was a failure? Coles still played but was obviously a complete shell of his former self, nowhere close to being what he was before.

Injuries are just darn bad luck, it doesn't mean the team was stupid to make the signing, unless that player had a history of injuries.

[MONK_in_HOF]

kelley washington the guy from cincy? If so he could be pretty good he has good speed and jump and nice size at
Position: WR
Height: 6-3
Weight: 218
Born: 08/21/1979
College: Tennessee
NFL Experience: 2

Washington could be good WR if he could stay healthy. He has all the tools. If coles wants to leave so bad, so be it, as long as he makes his removal cap friendly. His toughness will be missed, but I am not sure he isn't replaceable.

[MONK_in_HOF]

Plus Coles was good, but not worth the money that we gave him. I guess that can be said for lots of redskins though.

[nyjunc]

You are on something. Dewayne Robertson was NO-WHERE near a "dominant" player: he had 3 sacks and 36 tackles. How come he didnt even get a whiff of the pro bowl or any writer's best players? Corey Simon and Griffin had much better years. And Robertson had no excuse not getting more sacks and tackles: Ellis and Abraham are on the line with him.


He occupied Duble and triple teams all year helping our DL become one of the best, you obviously haven't watched him and are just using stats which is silly. HE is the reason Abe(when healthy), Ellis and Ferguson were so successful this year. The reason he wasn't on any writer's best players list is b/c thye do what you are doing and just look at stats.

So, being the best DT in the league, he, uh... he made the Pro Bowl... right?

I said ONE of the best and since when do all the most deserving guys make the Pro Bowl?

So if Chad pennington blows out his shoulder or doesn't completely heal from surgery his signing was a failure?

If he can't come back after tis injury after just signing him long term then yes it would be a failure but at leas we didn't give up a 1st rd pick.

If John Abraham injures his knee again and sits out, his signing was a failure?

Absolutely, especially since we know he is an injury prone player.

Injuries are just darn bad luck, it doesn't mean the team was stupid to make the signing, unless that player had a history of injuries.

Again, I didn't say Wash was stupid to sign him(I think you overpaid but I thought the move would work out for you) but it didn't work out the way you hoped and he is injured but he is till performing so I don't buy the injury excuse for Coles.

[akhhorus]

He occupied Duble and triple teams all year helping our DL become one of the best, you obviously haven't watched him and are just using stats which is silly. HE is the reason Abe(when healthy), Ellis and Ferguson were so successful this year. The reason he wasn't on any writer's best players list is b/c thye do what you are doing and just look at stats.

So, he's a block filler: He's still not the most dominant DT in the league or ANYWHERE close to that. I wouldnt even put him in the Top 10-15 of DTs in the league, NOR WOULD ANYONE ELSE.

And the writers dont just look at the stats, Dr Z put Cornie Griffin and John Henderson as his All-Pro DTs despite others having better stats.

There is being a homer, but calling Dewayne Robertson the best DT in the league is insanity.

[techskinsfan]

So, he's a block filler: He's still not the most dominant DT in the league or ANYWHERE close to that. I wouldnt even put him in the Top 10-15 of DTs in the league, NOR WOULD ANYONE ELSE.
i agree...hes not top 10 material...he has alot to prove being a number 4 pick

[bwparker]

even thought most of them were good playesr for you when you haven't won I don't think you can consider it a success I don't argue that our last two seasons were failures. Hell, sans '99 the last 12 years have been failures. But that doesn't make every move we've made a failure.

[BurgundyNGold]

kelley washington the guy from cincy? If so he could be pretty good he has good speed and jump and nice size at
Position: WR
Height: 6-3
Weight: 218
Born: 08/21/1979
College: Tennessee
NFL Experience: 2
I *really* wanted use to draft him. The guy has huge potential.

[MONK_in_HOF]

I *really* wanted use to draft him. The guy has huge potential.

Well maybe now we can get him for cheap since he has been hampered by injuries. Even though it isn't dependable move. God I hope we get Mike williams

[nyjunc]

So, he's a block filler: He's still not the most dominant DT in the league or ANYWHERE close to that. I wouldnt even put him in the Top 10-15 of DTs in the league, NOR WOULD ANYONE ELSE.

And the writers dont just look at the stats, Dr Z put Cornie Griffin and John Henderson as his All-Pro DTs despite others having better stats.

There is being a homer, but calling Dewayne Robertson the best DT in the league is insanity.

I didn't call him the best I said ONE of the best and he is a top 5 DT w/o a doubt and you saying he is not shows m you haven't watched the man play. By the way he had 36 solo tackles, overall he had 53. Since we are using stats let's look at the pro Bowlers:

AFC:
-Sam Adams had 28 solo, 41 overall and 5 sacks.
-Richard Seymour had 27 solos, 40 overall and 5 sacks.
-John Henderson had 66 solo and 75 overall w/ 5 1/2 sacks.
-Marcus Stroud had 42 solos, 54 overall and 4 1/2 sacks

NFC:
-La'roi Glover had 34 solos, 41 overall and 7 sacks.
-Shaun Rogers had 53 solo, 68 overall and 4 sacks.


Robertson had 38 solo, 53 overall and 3 sacks. Only Rigers, Kevin Williams and henderson put up much better $s but his rols is different. Some of those other Dts are relied upon to be big pass rushers but dewayne has 2 of the best on either side of him so his job is to open things up for those guys and to stuff the run. We went from one of the worst run Ds to a top 5 run D and Robertson was the main reason.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Are you kidding me? I don't think there was a better DT in the league this year and many opposing coaches uttered the same thing. He was dominant this year and it was only year 2 and I'll take a dominant DT over a WR any day.

That sounds to me like you consider him the BEST DT in the league.

You know what nyjunc? You are right. Coles, Hall, Morton, Thomas and all of the ex-Jets stink. So I don't get why you keep talking about that, you won in every facet of the game after getting rid of those guys.

Now, let's please go back to the thread: "Redskins Likely to Release Coles"

[BurgundyNGold]

Well maybe now we can get him for cheap since he has been hampered by injuries. Even though it isn't dependable move. God I hope we get Mike williams
I'd like to see if Mike Williams runs better that a 4.6 at the combine. I'd also like to see what kind of shape he's in. But, considering that he's likely going to be a top 15 pick, he won't go to the combine, or at least he won't work out. That makes him an even bigger gamble than the other WRs that won't work out at the combine 'cause at least you got to see tham play this year.

BTW, when is the combine? Akh?

[akhhorus]

I didn't call him the best I said ONE of the best and he is a top 5 DT w/o a doubt and you saying he is not shows m you haven't watched the man play. By the way he had 36 solo tackles, overall he had 53. Since we are using stats let's look at the pro Bowlers:

AFC:
-Sam Adams had 28 solo, 41 overall and 5 sacks.
-Richard Seymour had 27 solos, 40 overall and 5 sacks.
-John Henderson had 66 solo and 75 overall w/ 5 1/2 sacks.
-Marcus Stroud had 42 solos, 54 overall and 4 1/2 sacks

NFC:
-La'roi Glover had 34 solos, 41 overall and 7 sacks.
-Shaun Rogers had 53 solo, 68 overall and 4 sacks.


Robertson had 38 solo, 53 overall and 3 sacks. Only Rigers, Kevin Williams and henderson put up much better $s but his rols is different. Some of those other Dts are relied upon to be big pass rushers but dewayne has 2 of the best on either side of him so his job is to open things up for those guys and to stuff the run. We went from one of the worst run Ds to a top 5 run D and Robertson was the main reason.

I watched him play four times this year and I wasnt impressed. And saying that he's a top 5 DT is saying that he's one of the best. And those are the Pro Bowlers, but here's some guys you left out:
Kevin Carter: 6 sacks
Cornie Griffin: 6 sacks
Tommie Harris: 3.5 sacks
Corey Simon: 5.5 sacks
Kevin Williams: 11.5 sacks

Robertson is a decent DT, but you are kidding yourself if you think he's in a class with those guys who made the pro bowl or even in the top 10 of DTs. Take off the Homer glasses.

[Dexter72]

Again, I didn't say Wash was stupid to sign him(I think you overpaid but I thought the move would work out for you) but it didn't work out the way you hoped and he is injured but he is till performing so I don't buy the injury excuse for Coles.

This makes zero sense...if a guy develops a chronic injury, he's not the same player. His speed is still good, but not great, and his cuts and fakes went from being very good to average. Coles won't make as much money if he gets to FA this year because his foot is jacked...

Are you old enough to remember Namath? When he was still supposed to be in his prime (31-32) he was directing one of the worst offenses in the NFL and despite having a future HOFer in Riggins next to him, he threw 19 TDs to 44 Ints over a two year span...So did he really just suck or did the constant injuries, many of which were chronic (which is exactly what Coles has in his foot) negatively impact his game????

[PA Skins Girl]

Why should we care who the Jets got with our pick? The only thing we should care about is who WE DIDNT get with our pick; and even that isnt worth dwelling over now.

The only thing we can do now is look forward, not back. If Coles gives back $7 or $8 million, we will just move on.

Does it go down in the books as a failure or a success? Definately a failure, but not one that will have lingering affects on the future. Assuming we get a replacement (which we will).

[nyjunc]

I watched him play four times this year and I wasnt impressed. And saying that he's a top 5 DT is saying that he's one of the best. And those are the Pro Bowlers, but here's some guys you left out:
Kevin Carter: 6 sacks
Cornie Griffin: 6 sacks
Tommie Harris: 3.5 sacks
Corey Simon: 5.5 sacks
Kevin Williams: 11.5 sacks

Robertson is a decent DT, but you are kidding yourself if you think he's in a class with those guys who made the pro bowl or even in the top 10 of DTs. Take off the Homer glasses.

I mentioned Williams but for DTs it's not all about sacks and if you think those guys are better than Robertson then you haven't watched him.

Here's a good article going into the Pitt game in december:

"Robertson's numbers don't jump off the stat sheet (2-1/2 sacks, three tackles for loss), and even he had to acknowledge, "People who don't know about football probably think I'm having a (lousy) year. But the coaches, the people who know football, when they watch the film, they know. They see."


They see a disruptive player who, by his own estimation, draws double-team blocking on 50% of the plays. That creates playmaking opportunities for those around him. Robertson will have to be at his disruptive best for the Jets to have any chance of slowing down the NFL's second-rated rushing offense."


http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/261073p-223605c.html

[akhhorus]

I mentioned Williams but for DTs it's not all about sacks and if you think those guys are better than Robertson then you haven't watched him.

Here's a good article going into the Pitt game in december:

"Robertson's numbers don't jump off the stat sheet (2-1/2 sacks, three tackles for loss), and even he had to acknowledge, "People who don't know about football probably think I'm having a (lousy) year. But the coaches, the people who know football, when they watch the film, they know. They see."


They see a disruptive player who, by his own estimation, draws double-team blocking on 50% of the plays. That creates playmaking opportunities for those around him. Robertson will have to be at his disruptive best for the Jets to have any chance of slowing down the NFL's second-rated rushing offense."


http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/261073p-223605c.html

I havent found any references to Robertson as a "Dominant" DT from anyone. And thats the Jets beat writer writing that. Who cares. And thats the only reference to Robertson being good at all: let it go. He's not that good.

[PA Skins Girl]

I havent found any references to Robertson as a "Dominant" DT from anyone. And thats the Jets beat writer writing that. Who cares. And thats the only reference to Robertson being good at all: let it go. He's not that good.Who cares is right. What purpose does this discussion serve with respect to the Skins?

[akhhorus]

Something funny:
The Washington Post has this as a lead article in the Sports section
The Washing Times, you wouldnt know that Coles is about to be released.

[nyjunc]

I havent found any references to Robertson as a "Dominant" DT from anyone. And thats the Jets beat writer writing that. Who cares. And thats the only reference to Robertson being good at all: let it go. He's not that good.

Unfortunately all the archives are missing from the redzone archives where it has quotes from opposing coaches. Just watch the guy play, In have every game on tape ad I'll send them to you so you can see for yourself. You can't just throw out stats and have that be the end of the argument, look at the improvement of the Jets D which was as bad as any in the league especially against the run and Dewyane was the main reason we improved against the run and he is the main reason Shaun Ellis has become a big time DE.

[whitskins]

Something funny:
The Washington Post has this as a lead article in the Sports section
The Washing Times, you wouldnt know that Coles is about to be released.

I'm surprised Snyder even gives the Washington Times the scores of our games.

[akhhorus]

Unfortunately all the archives are missing from the redzone archives where it has quotes from opposing coaches. Just watch the guy play, In have every game on tape ad I'll send them to you so you can see for yourself. You can't just throw out stats and have that be the end of the argument, look at the improvement of the Jets D which was as bad as any in the league especially against the run and Dewyane was the main reason we improved against the run and he is the main reason Shaun Ellis has become a big time DE.

Keep sining the same song, still off key.

[akhhorus]

I'm surprised Snyder even gives the Washington Times the scores of our games.

Why bother. They publish any sort of PFT-type rumors they hear.

[nyjunc]

This makes zero sense...if a guy develops a chronic injury, he's not the same player. His speed is still good, but not great, and his cuts and fakes went from being very good to average. Coles won't make as much money if he gets to FA this year because his foot is jacked...

Are you old enough to remember Namath? When he was still supposed to be in his prime (31-32) he was directing one of the worst offenses in the NFL and despite having a future HOFer in Riggins next to him, he threw 19 TDs to 44 Ints over a two year span...So did he really just suck or did the constant injuries, many of which were chronic (which is exactly what Coles has in his foot) negatively impact his game????

Namath is the most overrated player in the history of the game, mainly due to his kness but that's the breaks. Injuries count, you csnt ignore them when judging whether something is a success or failure. If Chad gets hurt and can't play anymore than his deal which looked great a year ago will not look so good anymore- that's the way it goes.

[Dexter72]

Here's a good article going into the Pitt game in december:

They see a disruptive player who, by his own estimation, draws double-team blocking on 50% of the plays. That creates playmaking opportunities for those around him. Robertson will have to be at his disruptive best for the Jets to have any chance of slowing down the NFL's second-rated rushing offense."


And then the Steelers went out and put up 120 net rushing yards on the Jets and followed that up in the playoffs by putting up 193 net rushing yards on the Jets...averaging 3.9 and 4.5 yards per carry, respectively. They put up 107 on the Skins, but averaged only 2.8 per carry.

[Dexter72]

Namath is the most overrated player in the history of the game, mainly due to his kness but that's the breaks. Injuries count, you csnt ignore them when judging whether something is a success or failure. If Chad gets hurt and can't play anymore than his deal which looked great a year ago will not look so good anymore- that's the way it goes.

It may not look good, but it doesn't mean that a mistake was made (unless a pre-existing injury was ignored) and the Skins FO 'failed' because of it...there's not enough evidence to judge either way.

[nyjunc]

This makes zero sense...if a guy develops a chronic injury, he's not the same player. His speed is still good, but not great, and his cuts and fakes went from being very good to average. Coles won't make as much money if he gets to FA this year because his foot is jacked...

Are you old enough to remember Namath? When he was still supposed to be in his prime (31-32) he was directing one of the worst offenses in the NFL and despite having a future HOFer in Riggins next to him, he threw 19 TDs to 44 Ints over a two year span...So did he really just suck or did the constant injuries, many of which were chronic (which is exactly what Coles has in his foot) negatively impact his game????

That had more to do w/ the offense struggling, we scored 6 and 3 points in the 2 game and the D wore out late w/o John Abraham. They barely got over 100 and again that was late in the game in Dec and in the playoffs Pitt had the ball almost 10 more minutes and our D wore out in OT.

[nyjunc]

It may not look good, but it doesn't mean that a mistake was made (unless a pre-existing injury was ignored) and the Skins FO 'failed' because of it...there's not enough evidence to judge either way.

Again, I do think they overpaid but I thought the movs they made were good in the short term. Injuris have to come into play, it's why you don't give huge signing bonuses to a player like Coles. He's very good but he's not on the level of Moss, harrison, TO and TO got significantly less than Coles.

[Dexter72]

That had more to do w/ the offense struggling, we scored 6 and 3 points in the 2 game and the D wore out late w/o John Abraham. They barely got over 100 and again that was late in the game in Dec and in the playoffs Pitt had the ball almost 10 more minutes and our D wore out in OT.

Who "wore out"? Your D-Line, that's who. And who on the line is most responsible for stopping the run? DTs. The Skins had a very similar game and did a much better job against Pitt, 3.9/4.5 per carry vs. 2.8. Yeah, and Griff didn't have an Abraham or an Ellis for 17 weeks, he had a Ron Warner and a Joe Salavea.

[Stinkfist0]

Unlike some of the fans here, I was a big fan of Coles while he was here. However, after the initial shock of the news, it might not be so bad without him. Even without a big name free agent. If the Skins draft Mike Williams and start him next to Taylor Jacobs that may be a solid duo. Some of the Skins coaches sounded pretty high on TJ at the end of the season and Smoot said he thought he was the best receiver on the team, only to catch himself and say "one of the best receivers on the team". As they say, "players know players" especially a corner talking about a receiver that he has gone up against. Who knows, if McCants decides he wants to be here and recommit himself, perhaps he can alleviate the need to use a high pick on a WR.

[Dexter72]

Again, I do think they overpaid but I thought the movs they made were good in the short term. Injuris have to come into play, it's why you don't give huge signing bonuses to a player like Coles. He's very good but he's not on the level of Moss, harrison, TO and TO got significantly less than Coles.

TO's contract was for 48 mill -- his SB was 3 mill less, but he does get significantly more in roster bonuses (I think 6.5 mill this season), because it was in Philly's best interest to take the cap hit sooner rather than later.

[saviour]

If doesnt make a difference what reciever we bring in here next year becuase if we run that same crappy offense we ran last year we will be in the same boat.

There are a ton of teams that would die to have the recievers that the Skins have becuase you would have to pick your poison. But since the offense only consist of stop routes, 5 yard hitches and wide reciever screens you could expect to see a ton of upset recievers. There is no imagination at all with this offense.

Blame Coles for not putting up huge yardage numbers becuase all he caught was screen passes last season. Blame Gardner last year becuase he only got 2 balls a game thrown at him. Blame Jacobs, DMac, and Thrash becuase they rode the bench infavor of 2 and 3 tight end sets.

Lets be serious, the problem is the offense Gibbs is running and not the players. Did anyone think going into last year that we didn't have enough talent of offense to score more than 14 pts a game? I thought we would average 24 pts atleast with Portis, Coles, and Gardner. Then we had Jacobs and Dmac waiting in the wings. Everyone in the NFL knew that we were not going to throw the ball and we complained about it all year long. Now we are saying its becuase of the players on the team.

Does anyone not think its a problem that both of your starting recievers are not thinking twice about getting out of town and playing for another team?

Don't be suprised to see the Redskins not pick up a top reciever in free agency becuase what receiver in their right mind would come to a team who does not throw the ball. It is just like a top notch runner coming to a Spurrier offense, it doesn't make any sense to waste years off your career. If you cant overpay to get him then he would have to want to take a paycut to play here and since we cant overpay anymore expect a average receiver to be picked up and possibly someone in the draft.

Coach Gibbs will have to show the league he has an offense that would be unstoppable with a top flight receiver for someone to consider coming here.

[smoak]

I'm trying to read through the posts, but to be honest I haven't benn this flipping *%&$ off since the Skins fired Marty. ARGH!!!! First off, what coward that Coles wants to tuck tail and run just because things don't go his way. ARGH!!!! I'm angry. I understand Coles' frustration, but the Redskins are team.

Thank God I won't have to put up with daily updates on his d@mn toe. This sucks. I'm livid. Maybe we can let Portis and Brunell pay back some signing bonus as well. I got an idea... Just get 52 defensive guys and let them play both ways.

What a jerk. Being a workout warrior is one thing, but what a coward you have to be to turn and run just becuase things don't go "your way".

You know Lavernious (or however you spell your %*^ name. I live by this quote and maybe you need to take off the diaper:

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

-Martin Luther King, Jr.

[PA Skins Girl]

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."

-Martin Luther King, Jr.Excellent quote. How true.

[War Hogg]

This is some piece of news but i really cant blame Coles for wanting out of this offense. This had to be the most frustrating season for a wideout ever! All those damn screen passes must have pushed him over the edge. The part that gets me is that Coles knows he isnt gonna make that money anywhere else and he still wanted out! I think it was more than Coles wanting out. I think a combination of Gibbs and company pressuring him to get that toe fixxed and his frustration with the offensive scheme (no deep passes, 20 screen passes a game, having to block on the line like a tightend). It may turn out to be a blessing but I cant dislike him because he played like a soldier every game and didnt run his mouth to the media.

[saviour]

This is some piece of news but i really cant blame Coles for wanting out of this offense. This had to be the most frustrating season for a wideout ever! All those damn screen passes must have pushed him over the edge. The part that gets me is that Coles knows he isnt gonna make that money anywhere else and he still wanted out! I think it was more than Coles wanting out. I think a combination of Gibbs and company pressuring him to get that toe fixxed and his frustration with the offensive scheme (no deep passes, 20 screen passes a game, having to block on the line like a tightend). It may turn out to be a blessing but I cant dislike him because he played like a soldier every game and didnt run his mouth to the media.


Amen. Give this guy some credit for not once complaining to the press and playing hard each game. I'll miss him.

[dj_stouty]

What holes? When you guys acquired those 4 I never heard the end of it, I told you then you overpaid and the moves were good for us in the long run and I turned out to be right. I'm not usually one to crow when I'm right (I never came in here and said anything about the skins the past 2 years w/ those guys) but I took so much grief that i had to say something here.

OK...now I see your intentions.

I really don't think we overpaid for Coles. As I've mentioned before...Coles was the best WR this team has had in almost 13 years. If he gives back any unused signing bonus, it means he was paid an average of 2.3 million per year for 2003 and 2004. Hardly bigtime money in wide receiver terms...and certainly not bad for a guy who got us over 2,000 yards over that timespan especially when he played injured for 85% of those games.

I have no regrets that the Redskins obtained and paid Coles for his services. As I already mentioned...I'm just glad the Redskins didn't opt for someone like Peerless Price, who was also available at the time.

[ConradCountry]

The transformation continues we were a overpaid Vikings type team with no team attitude and high priced players. Now we are making the move to a Patriots TEAM and anyone who wants out get out.

[IndianBaller27]

man, this sucks.... I wish we could trade him.

[ConradCountry]

man, this sucks.... I wish we could trade him.

We stil might to make sure he doesn't end up with a division rival like the Cowboys.

[BSMKF]

The transformation continues we were a overpaid Vikings type team with no team attitude and high priced players. Now we are making the move to a Patriots TEAM and anyone who wants out get out.
Totally agree and its pumpin me up

[PennSkinsFan]

Link (http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=5878)

Clearly, they are backing out of any side agreement to release Coles and are now set on a trade situation only.

[dj_stouty]

Link (http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=5878)

Clearly, they are backing out of any side agreement to release Coles and are now set on a trade situation only.

I can't believe they are prepared to take that kind of cap hit for a trade.

(Unless they believe 9 million is worthy of a late 1st round pick)

[akhhorus]

I can't believe they are prepared to take that kind of cap hit for a trade.

(Unless they believe 9 million is worthy of a late 1st round pick)

I suspect that Coles has submitted a list of teams he wants to go to and will rework his deal to make it happen.

[LATrueRedskin]

I suspect that Coles has submitted a list of teams he wants to go to and will rework his deal to make it happen.

Imagine the look on Gibbs' face if he sees Dallas on there.

[dj_stouty]

I suspect that Coles has submitted a list of teams he wants to go to and will rework his deal to make it happen.

Re-work it how? You can't convert 9 million in guaranteed signing bonus. The 9 million stays no matter how you slice (restructure) it.

[whitskins]

Imagine the look on Gibbs' face if he sees Dallas on there.

"Buges, hand me my red pen, will you?"

[akhhorus]

Re-work it how? You can't convert 9 million in guaranteed signing bonus. The 9 million stays no matter how you slice (restructure) it.

The door swings both ways: You can convert it over to base salary. Most restructures are the other way around: Base Salary to Signing Bonus. No player does it the other way: because if they are cut, they lose that money. There is nothing in the NFL rules that prohibits this.

[bosshog001]

I hope Gibbs is right and they can work it out, though these initial reports generaly have a way of being true despite the protestations.

[dj_stouty]

The door swings both ways: You can convert it over to base salary. Most restructures are the other way around: Base Salary to Signing Bonus. No player does it the other way: because if they are cut, they lose that money. There is nothing in the NFL rules that prohibits this.

So we are all wrong in calling signing bonus money; "guaranteed"?

And if so...why doesn't the NFLPA jump in when this happens? It doesn't seem to represent the players very well.

IT was always my understanding that it didn't work both ways...

[akhhorus]

So we are all wrong in calling signing bonus money; "guaranteed"?

Not really. This is an extremely rare situation. And will probably the only time in the next five years where a player gives up guaranteed money.

[BandWagon]

Interesting....have you watched many of the games from the first Gibbs tenure here in D.C.? Actually there's only one particular quarter that you really need to watch if you're pinched for time. The Gibbs "system" was/is full of plenty vertical attack. In my mind, I'm convinced the conservative play calling indicates Gibbs didn't have the same kind of confidence in this roster than he had in the past. Remember what happened when he let Ramsey take "a shot downfield" at the end of the Eagles game? Throughout this year, the man was trying to put his team in the best position to win. I think he was also dealing with a lot "leftover" players that may not have been the kind of guys he would have preferred to have on his team. Apparently this offseason is playing out in a way that validates that. We will run the same "crappy offense" has you have put it next season. I just hope that Ramsey has matured to the point that Gibbs has more confidence in the way he'll handle the vertical game and we get some more receiving weapons to replace some of these "attitude" players we'll be losing.

And that's all I have to say about that right now...

Ok, one last comment... Does anyone not think its a problem that both of your starting recievers are not thinking twice about getting out of town and playing for another team?

I'm one person that doesn't think this is problem. There could be a variety of reasons these guys want out. The fact they are both from Jacksonville and live as neighbors doesn't make this seem coincidental to me.

If doesnt make a difference what reciever we bring in here next year becuase if we run that same crappy offense we ran last year we will be in the same boat.

There are a ton of teams that would die to have the recievers that the Skins have becuase you would have to pick your poison. But since the offense only consist of stop routes, 5 yard hitches and wide reciever screens you could expect to see a ton of upset recievers. There is no imagination at all with this offense.

Blame Coles for not putting up huge yardage numbers becuase all he caught was screen passes last season. Blame Gardner last year becuase he only got 2 balls a game thrown at him. Blame Jacobs, DMac, and Thrash becuase they rode the bench infavor of 2 and 3 tight end sets.

Lets be serious, the problem is the offense Gibbs is running and not the players. Did anyone think going into last year that we didn't have enough talent of offense to score more than 14 pts a game? I thought we would average 24 pts atleast with Portis, Coles, and Gardner. Then we had Jacobs and Dmac waiting in the wings. Everyone in the NFL knew that we were not going to throw the ball and we complained about it all year long. Now we are saying its becuase of the players on the team.

Does anyone not think its a problem that both of your starting recievers are not thinking twice about getting out of town and playing for another team?

Don't be suprised to see the Redskins not pick up a top reciever in free agency becuase what receiver in their right mind would come to a team who does not throw the ball. It is just like a top notch runner coming to a Spurrier offense, it doesn't make any sense to waste years off your career. If you cant overpay to get him then he would have to want to take a paycut to play here and since we cant overpay anymore expect a average receiver to be picked up and possibly someone in the draft.

Coach Gibbs will have to show the league he has an offense that would be unstoppable with a top flight receiver for someone to consider coming here.

[Texas Skin]

So is this a case of a private conversation between Gibbs & Coles talking about a deal that may or may not happen and some Post insider spilled the beans and now this article could ultimatley hurt the team?

[Redskinfan28]

So is this a case of a private conversation between Gibbs & Coles talking about a deal that may or may not happen and some Post insider spilled the beans and now this article could ultimatley hurt the team?

Kiem thinks that Coles and his agent have started this to generate trade interest. Coles would have to give back alot of $ for any trade to happen. He would also have to give back alot of $ to get released. That makes me think it is not yet a done deal.

http://redskins.scout.com/2/353924.html

[techskinsfan]

Link (http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=5878)

Clearly, they are backing out of any side agreement to release Coles and are now set on a trade situation only.
wait this link makes it sound like coles isnt gonna be traded either...he said they only need someone to take gardner's spot?...man this is terrible...i dont evne know what to think

[bgforever]

Kiem thinks that Coles and his agent have started this to generate trade interest. Coles would have to give back alot of $ for any trade to happen. He would also have to give back alot of $ to get released. That makes me think it is not yet a done deal.

http://redskins.scout.com/2/353924.html

He would recoup that from several teams with a signing bonus again. If he's under contract, which he is, he can't just walk away without our compensation. Player or not, this is business and when there's money involved, aint but one person to talk to - Dan Snyder - good luck LC :)

[colkurtz]

We either trade Coles for a draft pick, and receive compensation from Coles;

OR

He stays and plays under duress.

I think Coles could be a key component on a winning Redskins team, but if he doesn't want to be here, do you really want him to stay?

Problem #2 is that his toe situation has not been resolved, will it ever allow him to be 100% again?

[PA Skins Girl]

Guys, the cap hit is the same ($9.2+ million dead money) whether he is released or traded. If he agrees to give up some of the signing bonus, he can still be either released or traded with a lessened cap hit (or if he gives back $9.2+ million; no cap hit). It's no different in that respect.

The only thing different is that by releasing him, Coles becomes a free agent and has choices as to where he plays. However, the Skins can still work a trade with a team that Coles WANTS to play for, thereby still enticing him to give by some of the signing bonus. I think that is what is in the works. It may all be out the window now, since the story broke.

[War Hogg]

Guys, the cap hit is the same ($9.2+ million dead money) whether he is released or traded. If he agrees to give up some of the signing bonus, he can still be either released or traded with a lessened cap hit (or if he gives back $9.2+ million; no cap hit). It's no different in that respect.

The only thing different is that by releasing him, Coles becomes a free agent and has choices as to where he plays. However, the Skins can still work a trade with a team that Coles WANTS to play for, thereby still enticing him to give by some of the signing bonus. I think that is what is in the works. It may all be out the window now, since the story broke.

That only makes sense for Coles and the Skins. Luckily, Coles is not in a bitter dispute with the anyone in the organization and seems to have some class which will make him more willing to cooperate. What our FO needs to do more than anything is to make it look as if this is more Coles wishes than ours and that his foot is not as big a deal than it is.

[MoeRedskins]

Is anybody else still shocked about this. I almost dropped my phone when my buddy called me. It was like hearing a love one died in war. Coles is going to have to give some of the money back or he won't get released or traded. He is to big of a cap hit to just let walk away. Man, who ever heard of somebody missing Spurrier?

[Dexter72]

Is anybody else still shocked about this. I almost dropped my phone when my buddy called me. It was like hearing a love one died in war

Obviously you've never had a loved one die in a war.

[MoeRedskins]

Obviously you've never had a loved one die in a war.


granted i exagerrated a little bit, but only to get the point across. No disrespect meant to those who have lost their lives in battle.

[Dexter72]

granted i exagerrated a little bit, but only to get the point across. No disrespect meant to those who have lost their lives in battle.

Not trying to be an a-hole, its just a little much. I know what you mean about the shock of it all and the on going soap opera.

[smoak]

The transformation continues we were a overpaid Vikings type team with no team attitude and high priced players. Now we are making the move to a Patriots TEAM and anyone who wants out get out.

and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[smoak]

The door swings both ways: You can convert it over to base salary. Most restructures are the other way around: Base Salary to Signing Bonus. No player does it the other way: because if they are cut, they lose that money. There is nothing in the NFL rules that prohibits this.

But the key piece is the player must repay the restructured portion of the original SB.

[Dept_of_Defense]

This is becoming ridiculous. I would hate to see Coles wearing a.......Cowboys jersey? They're in the market for a wide receiver also along with Atlanta, Jacksonville, and Tampa Bay. :cry:
________
Review portable vaporizer (http://vaporizers.net)

[Redskinmayhem]

This is becoming ridiculous. I would hate to see Coles wearing a.......Cowboys jersey? They're in the market for a wide receiver also along with Atlanta, Jacksonville, and Tampa Bay. :cry:

Bro, looks like a name change may be in order for you^^^^ I feel your pain though :cry:

[MoeRedskins]

talk about a flip. Coles goes from being a core redskin, to a stinkin cowboy. I bet the girls wouldn't stop talking about that one. What would be nice is that if he goes to the Boys and that somehow stops this streak of losing we have. Actually, anything stopping that streak would be nice.

[BIGSEF3]

i can see it now..... coles for testeverde, straight up.

god help us.

[BIGSEF3]

i was also wondeing, how long do you think it will be before someone suggests we trade coles and arrington for randy moss? ;-)

[CNYSkinFan]

i was also wondeing, how long do you think it will be before someone suggests we trade coles and arrington for randy moss? ;-)

oh god :rolleyes:

[BIGSEF3]

i say someone atleast suggests it by the end of the week.

[dj_stouty]

i say someone atleast suggests it by the end of the week.

Not likely going to happen, considering the new owner of the Vikings said Moss will remain with the team.

[candeeman]

Do you think that the skins will simple get rid of coles (only because he doesn't want to be here) and not add any more WRs?
BTW I leavel the computer/tv off for 3 days and tons of things happen. This is suppose to be the off-season - I guess those days are gone!

[Redskinmayhem]

Do you think that the skins will simple get rid of coles (only because he doesn't want to be here) and not add any more WRs?
BTW I leavel the computer/tv off for 3 days and tons of things happen. This is suppose to be the off-season - I guess those days are gone!

Welcome to the Redskins under Daniel Snyder.

[CNYSkinFan]

Just heard on Redskins Radion that if Coles is released he might end up in Dallas. This makes sense. PArcells drafted Coles and would love him as a WR. This is all the more reason not to release Coles. I am starting to lean toward not releasing Coles now. Not if he is going to sign with NFC East teams. I have also heard Philly may be a destination with their wishes to upgrade their #2 but I don't think Coles will be satisfied being a #2.

[MoeRedskins]

Just heard on Redskins Radion that if Coles is released he might end up in Dallas. This makes sense. PArcells drafted Coles and would love him as a WR. This is all the more reason not to release Coles. I am starting to lean toward not releasing Coles now. Not if he is going to sign with NFC East teams. I have also heard Philly may be a destination with their wishes to upgrade their #2 but I don't think Coles will be satisfied being a #2.

Who knows what will happen, there are rumors flying everwhere that Coles is going back to the Jets, now to the Boys. I say let him go and have them deal with his problem foot. If Coles is willing to just turn around and go play for the Boys then he was never a Core Redskins after all. Right now, people still like Coles even though he wants out. If he goes to Dallas, expect that to change and fast.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

Do you think that the skins will simple get rid of coles (only because he doesn't want to be here) and not add any more WRs?
BTW I leavel the computer/tv off for 3 days and tons of things happen. This is suppose to be the off-season - I guess those days are gone!
come on candeeman, you know better than that--especially when it concerns the skins. :) i left the computer for 3 hours and there talk that coles isnt going to get traded.....:whoknows:

[candeeman]

come on candeeman, you know better than that--especially when it concerns the skins. :) i left the computer for 3 hours and there talk that coles isnt going to get traded.....:whoknows:
Hey I know. Did Coles give any justification. I always like the guys heart, but I hate it when players think they are above their contract. You signed it so you should finish it.

[akhhorus]

Hey I know. Did Coles give any justification. I always like the guys heart, but I hate it when players think they are above their contract. You signed it so you should finish it.

Nothing public:
but either its that the Skins demanded the foot surgery and COles balked or he's mad with his role in the offense.

[candeeman]

Nothing public:
but either its that the Skins demanded the foot surgery and Coles balked or he's mad with his role in the offense.
That's what I thought. So what is the best skins scenio:

1) reduce signing bonus, and release
2) restructure and trade
3) keep

I vote for keep, only because I don't think you will get that much for him because of his toe!

On the otherhand I hate malcontents so I am not sure!

[akhhorus]

That's what I thought. So what is the best skins scenio:

1) reduce signing bonus, and release
2) restructure and trade
3) keep

I vote for keep, only because I don't think you will get that much for him because of his toe!

On the otherhand I hate malcontents so I am not sure!

1-Then the skins get nothing in return
2-Best option
3-Aint happening.

[PA Skins Girl]

The Skins would not be entertaining releasing/trading Coles if they didnt already have a plan in place to replace him. Gardner too. I think we will be very excited about our receiving corps when it's all said and done. There could be something in the works that none of us have dreamed of yet.

[dj_stouty]

There could be something in the works that none of us have dreamed of yet.

We have to trust that this will happen.

Between now and the official start of Free Agency, there could be several WRs that hit the market that we didn't even expect.

[akhhorus]

We have to trust that this will happen.

Between now and the official start of Free Agency, there could be several WRs that hit the market that we didn't even expect.

Nunyo has been hinting for a few weeks in his online chats that the Skins has some big deal that they were working on.

[candeeman]

Nunyo has been hinting for a few weeks in his online chats that the Skins has some big deal that they were working on.
Okay you have my attention. Any clues?

[akhhorus]

Okay you have my attention. Any clues?

Zero; just hinting at something the skins were working on.

[Jimreaper007]

I smell a moss rumor

:D

[Redskinfan28]

http://redskins.scout.com/2/353989.html

It started late last season. I heard from a player that during the season Coles had asked to be traded during the offseason. And then, as the season came to an end, Gibbs let it be known that anyone who did not want to be a Redskin next season should come and talk to him and he would do his best to accommodate the request. Coles and (Rod) Gardner were the only ones to take him up on that.....

Demasio said that while he was developing this report over the past few days he tried to call Coles agent “100 times. After not getting a call back I talked to him today after the story came out. He was quite irate that this had gotten out, but he didn’t deny it. After I said that the story was accurate, he said ‘That’s not the point!’ and hung up on me.....

[candeeman]

I smell a moss rumor

:D
Please NO. During Gibbs 106.7 interview he mentioned watching NE film. I am hoping for something in that line!

[CNYSkinFan]

http://redskins.scout.com/2/353989.html

Yeah I read this. Seems he is sticking by his story which I think is true. I think Gibbs and co. are seeing that they could possibly work out a trade for Coles and are pulling back on the release talk.

However I seriously doubt Coles can be traded the more I read. This all seems to revolve around the 5 million deferred signing bonus due to Coles on 4 -1-05. The Redskins are using the only leverage they have, keeping Coles in D.C. and coles is offering the only incentive he has, giving up the signing bonus, to effect a release or trade.

Coles wants a release because he is sure he can make up the 5 million in another signing bonus with another club. The Redskins want a trade so they can get something more then future cap relief for releasing Coles.

However it is unsure what a trade will do to the deferred signing bonus. Under normal circumstance that deferred payment would still need to be made by the Redskins and the prorated portion of the signing bonus would immediately accelerate counting as a large hit on the cap. Coles would have to agree to give up his claim on the deferred payment, altering his contract, and hope that a team he is traded too will immediately offer him an extension or want to be out of DC so bad he gives up 5 million. The NFL management council may nullify that second choice.

That is it as far as I can see. It looks like the post story is probably the most logical conclusion to this sad sad development.

[IMALILTEAPOT]

The Skins would not be entertaining releasing/trading Coles if they didnt already have a plan in place to replace him. Gardner too. I think we will be very excited about our receiving corps when it's all said and done. There could be something in the works that none of us have dreamed of yet.
thank u for reminding me about the skins and their trades, i was worried, but i just realized that danny always has something up his sleeve.

[PennSkinsFan]

Yeah I read this. Seems he is sticking by his story which I think is true. I think Gibbs and co. are seeing that they could possibly work out a trade for Coles and are pulling back on the release talk.

However I seriously doubt Coles can be traded the more I read. This all seems to revolve around the 5 million deferred signing bonus due to Coles on 4 -1-05. The Redskins are using the only leverage they have, keeping Coles in D.C. and coles is offering the only incentive he has, giving up the signing bonus, to effect a release or trade.

Coles wants a release because he is sure he can make up the 5 million in another signing bonus with another club. The Redskins want a trade so they can get something more then future cap relief for releasing Coles.

However it is unsure what a trade will do to the deferred signing bonus. Under normal circumstance that deferred payment would still need to be made by the Redskins and the prorated portion of the signing bonus would immediately accelerate counting as a large hit on the cap. Coles would have to agree to give up his claim on the deferred payment, altering his contract, and hope that a team he is traded too will immediately offer him an extension or want to be out of DC so bad he gives up 5 million. The NFL management council may nullify that second choice.

That is it as far as I can see. It looks like the post story is probably the most logical conclusion to this sad sad development.

Yes. I believe the talks were initially centered around release, but then, realizing they had an upper hand, as far as Coles wanting out and the amount of teams that need wide receiver help, I think they are not looking to get something for Coles and will eventually end up with something.

Nunyo is reporting an article that I believe was all based on fact, just bad timing for the Redskisn and Coles, thats all. What will be interesting to see develop is whether the Times begins getting scoops, if Gibbs holds a grudge toward the Post.

[CNYSkinFan]

http://redskins.scout.com/2/353989.html

Demasio said that while he was developing this report over the past few days he tried to call Coles agent “100 times. After not getting a call back I talked to him today after the story came out. He was quite irate that this had gotten out, but he didn’t deny it. After I said that the story was accurate, he said ‘That’s not the point!’ and hung up on me.....

This part of the story really puzzles me. Why would Coles be sp upset that this got out pubicly if it was an accurate story? Well perhaps Coles was using this as leverage and might of wanted the option of rejoining the team without anyone knowing about the negotiations. Just a thought but I wonder if by this story going public that the possibility, however slim, of Coles coming back has vanished.

[PA Skins Girl]

I think they had a trade in mind the whole time. Hopefully, Nunyo's article didnt screw up the plan.

If it did, we may be getting our info from the Washington Times in the future.

[BIGSEF3]

is it possible that the much balloyeed blockbuster trade we were all wondering about a month or so ago, (the one that prompted all the moss for arrington nonsense) was really a planned trade involving coles for someone?

[LATrueRedskin]

I smell a moss rumor

:D

You've been quite on the subject, Reap.

[jonesy]

yea he had 90 or so touches.

Also zero td's, not open down field, no yards after catch, seemd to get manhandled and pummeled often, not consistently a game breaker, he insisted on starting even when hurt at a detrimine to the team, sulked and pouted in the locker room and gave everyone the silent treatment.

I don't know> some might say he is an overrated, underachieving and overpaid prima donna.

[LATrueRedskin]

Make no mistake about it: Coles is a very good wide reciever. I'd love to keep him on this team, he was one of my favorite players. But if he doesn't want to be here, I don't want him. It's that simple.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

I think Coles is a great player. And the lack of efficiency was because (in great part) of the whole offense. He is a great player, but everybody can be replaced.

[ShaggySkins]

He had 90 catches, every team in the league can use a guy who catches the ball 90 times a season and NEVER complained to the media about his unhappiness. You have no idea if Coles sulked and pouted in the locker room. Yes he played hurt but if the coaching staff felt he shouldn't have played or was hurting the team by doing so they would have deactivated him. They didn't so obviously they didn't have any objection to him playing with the injured toe. I don't like the fact that he wants to leave, and if he wants to go then I don't want him here. But I'm not going to blast a guy for his percieved selfishness when he busted his butt and played hurt every week when he was here.

[akhhorus]

*rubs temples*

Ok, stop this trashing of Coles. He's a very good WR, but he doesnt want to be here.

[Booser]

he did have 1 td last year, from clinton portis.

[BurgundyNGold]

Let's keep the bashing to a minimum, please.

Sure, he did those things. But, he also played in every game, with a hurt toe (which was his fault since he didn't get surgery, but...), and with dislocated fingers. Not to mention the shellackings the guy took going over the middle because Rod Garder and his possession receiver frame couldn't (or wouldn't). Futhermore, Coles was our best downfield blocker, save perhaps Thrash.

My main concern with him was that for the 2nd straight year he "elected" not to get surgery on his stupid toe. That was going to mean that he wasn't going to be anywhere close to the WR that he could be and that he was the first half of 2003.

Just because the guy is probably on the way out does not mean that he's not a hard-working, gritty player who left it all on the field for us. He will instantly be the best WR available in FA. Oh, and show me a WR without an ego problem and I'll show you Art Monk. He's the only WR I know of who wasn't a selfish WR who always thought he was open.

[jonesy]

He had 90 catches, every team in the league can use a guy who catches the ball 90 times a season and NEVER complained to the media about his unhappiness. You have no idea if Coles sulked and pouted in the locker room. Yes he played hurt but if the coaching staff felt he shouldn't have played or was hurting the team by doing so they would have deactivated him. They didn't so obviously they didn't have any objection to him playing with the injured toe. I don't like the fact that he wants to leave, and if he wants to go then I don't want him here. But I'm not going to blast a guy for his percieved selfishness when he busted his butt and played hurt every week when he was here.

Read the Nunyo interview on warpath insider, he sulked and pouted is what it seems as told by the players. 90 catches does not equal great performance, some recievers had less catches but had more yards, 1st downs and td's. I agree coaches should not play a hurt player but if he says he is ok when he is not....he did not seem ok with all the drops when he hurt his hand and the toe of course. Playing hurt can alos be selfish if you can't really perform and your trying to hold your job.

[dj_stouty]

...not open down field, no yards after catch...

I wouldn't say he was never open down field. Many of us in the stands at Fed Ex witnessed him open downfield on several plays a game, but Brunell or Ramsey never saw him.

Considering he was double teamed all year...and was forced to catch hitches and screens all day, he did an amazing job.

It sucks to see him go...but if he doens't want to wear B&G, then so be it.

Gibbs will find someone else to field those 90 balls...AND...when he does open up the offense, Coles will wish he was back....

[IVSkinsFan]

If he doesn't want to be here, let him go and wish him well.

[redwolf1218]

want? yes. need? no.

[Skinz4lyfe]

:helpme: Please! I'm getting close to the edge. Leave Coles alone!!

[BIGSEF3]

I wouldn't say he was never open down field. Many of us in the stands at Fed Ex witnessed him open downfield on several plays a game, but Brunell or Ramsey never saw him.

Considering he was double teamed all year...and was forced to catch hitches and screens all day, he did an amazing job.

It sucks to see him go...but if he doens't want to wear B&G, then so be it.

Gibbs will find someone else to field those 90 balls...AND...when he does open up the offense, Coles will wish he was back....

the thing that worries me is that coles doesnt feel the offense WILL be opened up. otherwise, why would he leave? gibbs has said over and over that the passing game will improve next year, but evidently coles has evidence to beleive it wont. that scares me.

[dj_stouty]

the thing that worries me is that coles doesnt feel the offense WILL be opened up. otherwise, why would he leave? gibbs has said over and over that the passing game will improve next year, but evidently coles has evidence to beleive it wont. that scares me.

Either Coles is really dumb...or really smart. Knowing how well Gibbs can adapt offenses, I would side that Coles is the dumb guy here...

[jonesy]

:helpme: Please! I'm getting close to the edge. Leave Coles alone!!

Why? He is fair game with this BS.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

the thing that worries me is that coles doesnt feel the offense WILL be opened up. otherwise, why would he leave? gibbs has said over and over that the passing game will improve next year, but evidently coles has evidence to beleive it wont. that scares me.
Now Coles is smarter than Gibbs?? Talking about Vol. II...

[redwolf1218]

i like Coles, he showed heart. what's the guy supposed to do in the locker room? "oh man this is great to be on the worst offense in the NFL." i do believe it's gonna turn around though and it'll be a shame that Coles wont be a part of it. but neither will Champ Bailey and some others so they can be replaced.

[ihatedallas]

i really do like coles, he was the first jersey i ever really wanted/bought. but i think his refusal to have surgery and him not seeming to gel with ramsey again might meen we need to find a better fit. well this meens one thing...were either getting a wr for our first pick or signing someone becuase 50/50 and thrash are NOT starting recievers anymore

[NCskinsfanatic]

Exactly redwolf,If Bailey can be replaced and we dont miss a beat, then coles can be too. Bring on Mason we need a solid FA WR or two( if we trade down from #9) and Porter is already off the market.

[akhhorus]

the thing that worries me is that coles doesnt feel the offense WILL be opened up. otherwise, why would he leave? gibbs has said over and over that the passing game will improve next year, but evidently coles has evidence to beleive it wont. that scares me.

BIGSEF's Christmas Album starts here. Coles knows more about football than Gibbs. Good to know.

[BurgundyNGold]

Exactly redwolf,If Bailey can be replaced and we dont miss a beat, then coles can be too. Bring on Mason we need a solid FA WR or two( if we trade down from #9) and Porter is already off the market.
I have to admit, I was surprised to hear that Coles had 90+ catches. Those might have been the quietest 90+ catches in history. Anyway, we lost before Coles got here and we lost with him here. What's the worst that could happen without him that hasn't already happened?

[smoak]

Make no mistake about it: Coles is a very good wide reciever. I'd love to keep him on this team, he was one of my favorite players. But if he doesn't want to be here, I don't want him. It's that simple.

This is 100% how I (and I think most) Redskins fans feel.

We'll be fine doing what the Pats do and spreading the ball around more.

[whitskins]

We don't need any player that doesn't want to be here.

[BIGSEF3]

Either Coles is really dumb...or really smart. Knowing how well Gibbs can adapt offenses, I would side that Coles is the dumb guy here...

obviously joe gibbs knows more about football than coles, but coles never struck me as being an impatient person. to want to leave and give BACK money promised to him, he's got to really feel that he has no future here and that he wont get the ball. and i just dont understand that, based on what we have been told.

i'm wondering if gibbs told coles that his gameplan wouldnt involve a consistant deep passing threat.

(PS - i was typing my thread when akh made his joyous comment. while the coles knows more football than gibbs should not be on my christmas album b/c that wasnt what i thought or said, i am intrigued by the idea of having a christmas album....)

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

BIGSEF's Christmas Album starts here. Coles knows more about football than Gibbs. Good to know.
:lol1: That's what I was saying...

Are we the only people that notice such album-value remarks?

[dj_stouty]

i'm wondering if gibbs told coles that his gameplan wouldnt involve a consistant deep passing threat.

Gibbs probably told him that the offense will be whatever Gibbs says it will be...and bitching and moaning about it won't change a damn thing.

He probably didn't say it exactly like that...but I would have if I were in Gibbs' shoes.

[BIGSEF3]

you gotta admire gibbs for having that attitude.

however, while you will all testify that i am as far as possible from the coles-is the-best-thing-since-white-bread-bandwagon, i do think we are better of with him, than without him - given the cap ramifications of cutting or trading him.

this really seems to me, on the surface, like this situation is very triffling. (is that a word?)

gibbs is the boss and coles should respect that. however, receivers are ALWAYS going to want to get every pass. receivers are going to be big-headed sometimes. thats what makes some great receivers. that boisterous, overconfidence is often what drives them to do the amazing things they do. as a coach, you've got to put the receiver in his place, make sure he respects you, but at the same time, assure him he is valuable to the team.

i understand gibbs feeling that, "this is my ship, were doing it my way, or the highway philosophy" but i would much rather gibbs work to CONVINCE coles that his way will work, rather than let him go. then again, we never know what happened behind the scenes. but i really cant see coles reasons for wanting out being as simple as it appears now.

to me, i am HOPING this is an issue they can get by so we could keep coles and have him back, with a fixed toe, giving the 110 percent on the field that he always did.

[akhhorus]

you gotta admire gibbs for having that attitude.

however, while you will all testify that i am as far as possible from the coles-is the-best-thing-since-white-bread-bandwagon, i do think we are better of with him, than without him - given the cap ramifications of cutting or trading him.

this really seems to me, on the surface, like this situation is very triffling. (is that a word?)

gibbs is the boss and coles should respect that. however, receivers are ALWAYS going to want to get every pass. receivers are going to be big-headed sometimes. thats what makes some great receivers. that boisterous, overconfidence is often what drives them to do the amazing things they do. as a coach, you've got to put the receiver in his place, make sure he respects you, but at the same time, assure him he is valuable to the team.

i understand gibbs feeling that, "this is my ship, were doing it my way, or the highway philosophy" but i would much rather gibbs work to CONVINCE coles that his way will work, rather than let him go. then again, we never know what happened behind the scenes. but i really cant see coles reasons for wanting out being as simple as it appears now.

to me, i am HOPING this is an issue they can get by so we could keep coles and have him back, with a fixed toe, giving the 110 percent on the field that he always did.

Coles got 90 catches, he has no right to complaint about getting the ball. End of story. The fact that he's unwilling to wait another year to see how to offense goes tells me that he's got a selfish streak in him.

[BIGSEF3]

selfish doesnt seem to fit coles personality. i really think coles is using that as an EXCUSE. he has some other reason, but its easy to say he's leaving b/c he wants to go to a more productive offense, but thats just lame. i dont truly beleive that his his MOTIVATION for a second.

and gibbs is letting him go far too easily. there is more going on than meets the eye with this one.

[akhhorus]

selfish doesnt seem to fit coles personality. i really think coles is using that as an EXCUSE. he has some other reason, but its easy to say he's leaving b/c he wants to go to a more productive offense, but thats just lame. i dont truly beleive that his his MOTIVATION for a second.

and gibbs is letting him go far too easily. there is more going on than meets the eye with this one.

Got a quick question: do you know the real reason why Coles wants out? There have been two reasons given. One helps your argument, the other undercuts it. But feel free to keep blaming Gibbs for this situation.

[IVSkinsFan]

We may never know the real reason he wants to leave. There must be something unsaid going on.

[whitskins]

The real reason isn't important to me, not to say that it isn't the blatantly obvious, he doesn't like blocking as much and wants to go deep and not take cranium shots all day long.

There's really not much need for conspiracy theory or investigation, Coles wants out, let's make it happen in the best way for this team. Gibbs asked who wants to be here and who doesn't, two guys said they don't and one is a guy who would have been booted anyways.

You think the Giants have 51 guys who are willing to sell out for Coughlin? Heck no.

[War Hogg]

I think Coles wants to have career longevity, and catching 45 screen passes every season for the next couple of years doesnt sit well with him. LC knows that he can go some where else and finish out his career as a traditional receiver and not a Possesion receiever/tightend/tackle. As a traditional receiver he would not have to worry about the worsening of his toe injury as much......IMO

[IowaSkinsFan]

yea he had 90 or so touches.

Also zero td's, not open down field, no yards after catch, seemd to get manhandled and pummeled often, not consistently a game breaker, he insisted on starting even when hurt at a detrimine to the team, sulked and pouted in the locker room and gave everyone the silent treatment.

I don't know> some might say he is an overrated, underachieving and overpaid prima donna.

If we get a player of his ability to replace him, then no, we don't need him.

Talent wise, he was twice as good as the next best WR which obviously was Rod Gardner because no one could get him out of the lineup, not even the great DMC.

It's too bad what happened to him. When healthy, he was a true game breaker.

[IowaSkinsFan]

and gibbs is letting him go far too easily. there is more going on than meets the eye with this one.

Are you privy to the number and length of conversations between Joe and LC? If so please fill in the rest of us so we can make the same judgements that you have made about Joe letting him go too easily.

Also, are you in the locker room to see how LC is acting? I know Joe is. He's probably got a pretty good feel for what LC is bringing to the team and what he's doing to bring it down.

You can speculate all you want but the fact is that you just don't have any proof to support what you claim to be true.

[Axegrinder]

I'd like to think that it would be hard to let someone go, who brings it every week,is tough,plays hurt,and is all business.
Will we be better[talentwise]if he leaves?
I doubt it.

[sknsfan341234]

We may never know the real reason he wants to leave. There must be something unsaid going on.


I agree there must be something unsaid going on. I believe that everyone in this league is a competitor no matter which position they play at. LC is probably one of the most noticable competitors on the field every week. Coles was angry at Herman Edwards for letting him go out of New York, Why? Because they were winning there. Two years removed from New York and no playoffs for Coles. The Jets made the playoffs this year, his team did not. I think he misses winning and although he probably does not like the offensive he is currently in, everyone wants to win.

I will never get angry at a person that wants to win.
Two Words: Corey Dillon.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

I think they had a trade in mind the whole time. Hopefully, Nunyo's article didnt screw up the plan.

If it did, we may be getting our info from the Washington Times in the future.
i think the timing was the problem too. his agent apparently didnt want this leaked......but why would that be? wouldnt it be better for coles to get to chose were he wants to g in free agency instead of being told where to go?

[Kanman21]

I think a lot of why they're so upset is that they probably didn't want to tarnish Coles' reputation as a team first guy. If something got out like this that would make him look selfish to the casual observer and more, then people will begin to think he's a malcontent and isn't worth bringing aboard(i know how untrue this comment is).

I guess they think that its gonna hurt them in negotiations with other teams if this so-called selfish rumor got out.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Yes. I believe the talks were initially centered around release, but then, realizing they had an upper hand, as far as Coles wanting out and the amount of teams that need wide receiver help, I think they are not looking to get something for Coles and will eventually end up with something.

Nunyo is reporting an article that I believe was all based on fact, just bad timing for the Redskisn and Coles, thats all. What will be interesting to see develop is whether the Times begins getting scoops, if Gibbs holds a grudge toward the Post.

Joe and Company should be looking for something in return. They gave up the 13th pick in the draft to get him.

However, Coles was willing to give back part of the bonus money in exchange for his release. I doubt if he is going to play so nice now that the team is talking trade.

[BIGSEF3]

Are you privy to the number and length of conversations between Joe and LC? If so please fill in the rest of us so we can make the same judgements that you have made about Joe letting him go too easily.

Also, are you in the locker room to see how LC is acting? I know Joe is. He's probably got a pretty good feel for what LC is bringing to the team and what he's doing to bring it down.

You can speculate all you want but the fact is that you just don't have any proof to support what you claim to be true.


i didnt say i had proof...

and BASED ON THE LAME EXCUSE WE HAVE SO FAR, GIBBS IS LETTING COLES GO WAY TOO EASY.

what we know right now is something like this....


JG: if you don't want to be a part of this team next year, let me know.

RG: i want to go to a team that doesnt call me 50/50 and loves me no matter how many passses i drop.

JG: Seek a Trade.... Anyone else?

LC: I didnt get enough yards this year, i want to be a free agent.

JG: If you dont want to be here, we would be happy to help you leave, despite the negative cap ramifications, your constantly giving me and the team 110 percent despite playing hurt, the fact you caught more passes than any redskin receiver not named art monk, and the fact that next year you will get all the deep passes and more because our offense is going to kick some major butt! None of that matters, I'm not even going to try and talk you out of it. Your wish is my command.

LC: Thanks Gibbs. and just to show my appreciation, in an unprecendented move, heres 6million dollars, of the 13 million you gave me as a signing bonus, which I am under no obligation whatsoever to give you.

JG: Thanks, but we're not going to let you become a FA, we're going to trade you and take a 5M cap hit when we have no cap room to spare.


I never claimed to have a solution, or an answer, as to what is going on here. All i said, is that based on the lame excuses we have been given, gibbs let coles go to easily, and coles has no legitimate excuse to want to leave.

what i said is, something else is going on here, and i want to know what it is. what "facts" we know right now, don't make any sense.

[PA Skins Girl]

what i said is, something else is going on here, and i want to know what it is. what "facts" we know right now, don't make any sense.
The problem with us fans is we feel we have a right to know what is going on. If there is a trade in the works, there is a reason why they are keeping it quiet for now. Have a little patience. We shouldnt even know as much as we know right now.

[NCskinsfanatic]

He'll have to play nice IMO we hold all the cards. Its either:
a) stay a skin this year
b) sit out all together
c) agree to a trade that benefits us by restructure/pay back of bonus.

[GolfFreak]

He'll have to play nice IMO we hold all the cards. Its either:
a) stay a skin this year
b) sit out all together
c) agree to a trade that benefits us by restructure/pay back of bonus.

Glad to finally read this ... we DO hold all the cards. He signed a contract and should live with it.

[Brokenstriker]

I really do like Coles the football player, at least during the games. But I have to say pretty firmly ... I don't have much respect for Coles the business man. He signed a contract. That's supposed to be a business (a/k/a professional) committment. He's not happy now? Why? He plays. He starts. He gets the ball ... alot for a receiver. His team asked him to have an injury that they think is limiting his abilities corrected in the recommended medical fashion (recommended by at least some presumably qualifed specialists) ... and when he doesn't they continue to play him, and throw to him. I have no idea what happens in practice. Maybe they hurt his feelings, or made him push his injury harder than he wanted to. But for CRYING OUT LOUD ... LC you signed a freaking contract to perform at at your best ability for the Washington Redskins. That contract has significant penalities if they release you, even if you give some of the money back. You wanting to leave is hurting the Redskins not just because they will lose one of the best receivers in the league, but because they will be less able to bring in other quality players since you are making such a dent in the salary cap. And oh by the way the money you keep, and earned ... qualifies as a small fortune ... more than most of the people in this forum will make in a lifetime, after taxes at least. You walk away from this contract Coles ... and you walk away a man who has no legitimate claim to personal honor or integrity. You should be ashamed. You're screwing your so to be former teammates, and all of the fans. Thanks for welshing on the deal LC ... thanks for nothing!

[skins111111]

he signed, he's a warrior, he will play.................heck at least 90% of the population arn't real happy with their jobs but hey they still go to work.

[straightupbeast]

i think taylor jacobs could do the stuff that coles did last year....if were gonna use him like we did last year i dont think we need him but if we use him downfield then he would be vital to the team

[PA Skins Girl]

I really do like Coles the football player, at least during the games. But I have to say pretty firmly ... I don't have much respect for Coles the business man. He signed a contract. That's supposed to be a business (a/k/a professional) committment. He's not happy now? Why? He plays. He starts. He gets the ball ... alot for a receiver. His team asked him to have an injury that they think is limiting his abilities corrected in the recommended medical fashion (recommended by at least some presumably qualifed specialists) ... and when he doesn't they continue to play him, and throw to him. I have no idea what happens in practice. Maybe they hurt his feelings, or made him push his injury harder than he wanted to. But for CRYING OUT LOUD ... LC you signed a freaking contract to perform at at your best ability for the Washington Redskins. That contract has significant penalities if they release you, even if you give some of the money back. You wanting to leave is hurting the Redskins not just because they will lose one of the best receivers in the league, but because they will be less able to bring in other quality players since you are making such a dent in the salary cap. And oh by the way the money you keep, and earned ... qualifies as a small fortune ... more than most of the people in this forum will make in a lifetime, after taxes at least. You walk away from this contract Coles ... and you walk away a man who has no legitimate claim to personal honor or integrity. You should be ashamed. You're screwing your so to be former teammates, and all of the fans. Thanks for welshing on the deal LC ... thanks for nothing!Great post, man. Especially the part about honor and integrity. The more people that understood the importance of honor and integrity, the better this world would be.

[PA Skins Girl]

He'll have to play nice IMO we hold all the cards. Its either:
a) stay a skin this year
b) sit out all together
c) agree to a trade that benefits us by restructure/pay back of bonus.
Exactly. The Skins have all the leverage in this situation. Of course, Coles could stay a Skin and dog it all year, but I dont think his competitive nature will let him do that.

[War Hogg]

If I were LC and just went through a season having to play the role that he played (possesion receiver/tightend/tackle), I would be pretty shakey on coming back myself. Playing receiver the way Gibbs had them playing last year (and possibly the years to come) is alot more physical than any other receiver in the league.

LC's options are

A.Play for a Hall of Fame coach that couldnt devise a plan to get me a single touchdown throw from a quarterback the entire season. Play receiver,tightend, and guard. Also, perform a possibly career ending surgery that wouldnt be absolutely neccassary if I didnt have to catch 40 plus screen passes a year.

B.Go to a team that uses Receivers, tightends and tackles in a traditional sense, which in-turn would lower the risk of a career ending injury or surgery. Also in the role that he will be playing for these teams (receiver only) he probably wont be required to have surgery.....

Personally I would choose the latter and have a better chance at having a longer career....To hell with a contract....

[PA Skins Girl]

Follow up Nunyo article. Nothing new.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42348-2005Feb21.html

[bgforever]

After I read this post, I realize what a cancer Gardner was and how Coles may be a bit more niave than I thought. I do question those players bolting so quickly, when players like Mitchell, Haley would give an arm to be back with the Skins. Coles is a victim of the money thing Gardner had going during the season. I can't prove it, but the smell was awfully familiar to Art Schlitzter's gambling point shaving. Art was able to impact a game more, but WR's can do it also, depends on given downs and circumstances, who's on the field throughout the game, have the QB's trust and pfffft. :inkston:

Ok, that's MY opinion right or wrong, but no way those two receiver's DON't talk about doing this. Coles' just doesn't make sense, as much as Gibbs dumping Gardner, DOES!

I question a lot of the weekly visits to the familiar uptown club in D. C., like an appointed ritual before each game. Oh well, there I go again. Its like a cancer and this hunch won't go away. In short Coles has only one stat that matters, and though he didn't miss as many as Gardner in crunch moments, he didn't score as many TD"s is on HIS shoulders, not Joe Gibbs.

[bgforever]

There is a one sided view from Coles on this and I prefer to let it play out now. I have no look into his future, but when taking everything into account, timing and all, this isn't just Coles that came up with wanting to leave so abrutly. Its easy to say its the offensive system, because he may not ever be able to say in words what it really is. I prefer he move on quickly and wish he had asked for it when he knew he didn't want surgery. Again, I say as I did on another thread, Coles is doing this to his self and he will have no to blame, but himself when July rolls around. It can't be just the money, Joe Gibbs proved that years ago, with Bobby Beathard, and now NE with Belichick does, if Coles wants out, BYE!

[RedskinsVision]

LC must've missed the Posse days and Gibbs' team scoring 35 points in 1 Quarter in the Super Bowl. maybe he needs a chat with Gary Clark and Art Monk.

the thing i don't get is.. if he talked with Gibbs about his frustrations with the offense and how he was used.. did Gibbs not give him assurances that if the offense as a whole got more consistent and executed better, that he would definitely open it up? or did Gibbs just tell him this system is what it is and he won't change LC's role? either way.. it's time to see if Jacobs was worthy of a 2nd round pick and for Thrash to show why he was a starter for 4-5 years.

[akhhorus]

i didnt say i had proof...

and BASED ON THE LAME EXCUSE WE HAVE SO FAR, GIBBS IS LETTING COLES GO WAY TOO EASY.

what we know right now is something like this....


JG: if you don't want to be a part of this team next year, let me know.

RG: i want to go to a team that doesnt call me 50/50 and loves me no matter how many passses i drop.

JG: Seek a Trade.... Anyone else?

LC: I didnt get enough yards this year, i want to be a free agent.

JG: If you dont want to be here, we would be happy to help you leave, despite the negative cap ramifications, your constantly giving me and the team 110 percent despite playing hurt, the fact you caught more passes than any redskin receiver not named art monk, and the fact that next year you will get all the deep passes and more because our offense is going to kick some major butt! None of that matters, I'm not even going to try and talk you out of it. Your wish is my command.

LC: Thanks Gibbs. and just to show my appreciation, in an unprecendented move, heres 6million dollars, of the 13 million you gave me as a signing bonus, which I am under no obligation whatsoever to give you.

JG: Thanks, but we're not going to let you become a FA, we're going to trade you and take a 5M cap hit when we have no cap room to spare.


I never claimed to have a solution, or an answer, as to what is going on here. All i said, is that based on the lame excuses we have been given, gibbs let coles go to easily, and coles has no legitimate excuse to want to leave.

what i said is, something else is going on here, and i want to know what it is. what "facts" we know right now, don't make any sense.

You're so full of crap. You have no clue what is really going on, and youre extrapolating off of press releases and speculation. But you're more than willing to assuming facts that no-one has said.

You have been entertaining of late, but now you're slipping BACK into douchebaggery. THINK before you post in the future, please.

[saviour]

If I were LC and just went through a season having to play the role that he played (possesion receiver/tightend/tackle), I would be pretty shakey on coming back myself. Playing receiver the way Gibbs had them playing last year (and possibly the years to come) is alot more physical than any other receiver in the league.

LC's options are

A.Play for a Hall of Fame coach that couldnt devise a plan to get me a single touchdown throw from a quarterback the entire season. Play receiver,tightend, and guard. Also, perform a possibly career ending surgery that wouldnt be absolutely neccassary if I didnt have to catch 40 plus screen passes a year.

B.Go to a team that uses Receivers, tightends and tackles in a traditional sense, which in-turn would lower the risk of a career ending injury or surgery. Also in the role that he will be playing for these teams (receiver only) he probably wont be required to have surgery.....

Personally I would choose the latter and have a better chance at having a longer career....To hell with a contract....

I agree 100%. I know its easy to say to hell with Coles, you dont want to be here then get out. But look at it from his perspective. As a reciever, you want to run routes and compete with the DB. Your one goal is to get open and catch the ball. The offense we ran last year was simplier to read than my street football games that we played as kids. Only difference is that Gibbs called more button hooks routes than we did.

No one is killing Portis and he blatantly complained about the offense and the way his coach called the game after the Browns game and several other times as well. But Coles is the bad guy becuase he played through it quietly all season and never said one negative thing about the offense or his coach to the media. People say that he got the ball plenty as evidence by his 90 catches, but look at the yardage he gained. Our recievers were probably the only recievers in the league who could catch the ball and lose yardage!!

The only hope for next year is that Gibbs adjust to todays NFL and use the rules to his advantage. With all of the non contact to wideouts rules that have been implemented you would think we could use our recievers to exploit that. Every game that I watched I told myself, this is the game in which coach Gibbs is going to open it up only to be let down time and time again by a conservative ball control offense. Portis would have had 1700+ yards if every team we played against respected our passing game and removed thier safties from the box. We all hope that the Minnesota game is a pre cursor to a more open offense as there were 4 wide reciever sets used in that game. Also, the offense flowed 900 times better once Ramsey got his chance as he probably accounted for about 70% of Coles receptions last year as he and Coles seemingly have a nice rapport.

Ramsey2Coles, can you help me with the exact number of receptions as I remember seeing your sig with a count on this.

[Skinz4lyfe]

What is really going on in DC?

Not sure if this needs to be merged but here it goes:
Link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A45510-2005Feb22_2.html)

IMO, we hold the upper hand because we can't release or trade him w/o huge salary cap ramifications.

[saviour]

LC must've missed the Posse days and Gibbs' team scoring 35 points in 1 Quarter in the Super Bowl. maybe he needs a chat with Gary Clark and Art Monk.

the thing i don't get is.. if he talked with Gibbs about his frustrations with the offense and how he was used.. did Gibbs not give him assurances that if the offense as a whole got more consistent and executed better, that he would definitely open it up? or did Gibbs just tell him this system is what it is and he won't change LC's role? either way.. it's time to see if Jacobs was worthy of a 2nd round pick and for Thrash to show why he was a starter for 4-5 years.

I can picture Gibbs telling Coles that the offense is what it is and he should not question it. The days of the Posse seems like acient history as even the coach couldnt remember how much easier it was to score when you pass the ball.

And please, no more talk about Thrash stepping in. This guy was a complete bust with a all pro QB. If he couldn't cut the mustard with Donovan then why should we expect anything from him. The only thing he is doing is taking away playing time from Jacobs. He is at best a #3 reciever and a good special teamer. The guy had one average year in 2001 and he has gone downhill ever since. And that is when he was the number one option. How many dropped passes did he have this year? Thats why philly gave him up so easily cause he was not needed with Lewis, and Pinkston coming along.

[Emmanouel8]

I can't think of one good reason why Coles would want to leave. Honestly, I've felt his toe has killed his down the field threat and what are we paying $13 million for if he can't get down field? He's played hard and been a quality guy but w/ this stuff coming out he's out my door.

Trade him for Randy Moss straight up, we'll throw in Gardener if they want.

[RedskinsVision]

i definitely don't think Thrash should start either. he should be a solid 3 or 4 at best and an excellent ST player. but with Coles and Gardner gone, and with Gibbs saying his role will increase.. i see Thrash getting more opportunities at the 3 spot. Thrash did have 164 catches in 3 years with Philly so i wouldn't say he was a complete bust when he was never considered a top WR in the first place.. he just became their #1 out of necessity.

[Emmanouel8]

I can picture Gibbs telling Coles that the offense is what it is and he should not question it.



You better believe he would, Gibbs is the leader of the camp nobody else. Gibbs is in charge of the offense not a 27 year old WR.

[LATrueRedskin]

You're so full of crap. You have no clue what is really going on, and youre extrapolating off of press releases and speculation. But you're more than willing to assuming facts that no-one has said.

You have been entertaining of late, but now you're slipping BACK into douchebaggery. THINK before you post in the future, please.

Seriously...

[techskinsfan]

imo if he wants out dont bring him back...but we cant let him go for nothing either...make him sit until he wants to rework his deal to be traded...they said it was a distraction last year...and its true we hold ALL the cards...u dont wanna be here fine dont play...well play someone else...his cap number isnt huge this year i dont think...i figure a trade will come soon though

[akhhorus]

Fine, Coles wont restructure, he doesnt leave the team. Sit and pout or play. Simple as that. Coles has zero leverage: he has a contract and wont get out of it unless he gives back some of his bonus.

I'm sick of the Coles situation: he either gets traded or he stays on the team. And he wants to be uncooperative, Gibbs will keep him on the roster and again, he can play or he can sit.

[LATrueRedskin]

Yeah we have the upper hand with Coles. HE wants to leave, but yet HE won't redo his deal. If that's the case, looks like you're sitting buddy.

[Emmanouel8]

Coles is lucky I'm not running things he wouldn't be going anywhere and the FO better not let him dictate anything.

We gave up a 1st rounder for him just 2 years ago. NO WAY!

[SkinsKY]

It's in Coles' best interest in winning to either stay here or give back the money. If he doesn't, he won't really get the best offers by June 1 because most will have addressed the problem. He is worth a little more now that Porter extended with the Raiders. This offseason is looking worse all of the time. Hopefully we can take the punch to the gut now and do alright next year.

[bgforever]

I see this guy as a little kid now.
Gentleman, fine.
Hard working man, fine.
Gives 110 percent fine.

Business mind to get things going instead of acting like a poor beggar on the corner, priceless.

What were you thinking? Well, when you spoke to Gibbs it was fine. When you went back to your greedy a** agent, your story changed, him making you a liar LC, cause you aint gonna sit there and tell me Joe Gibbs LIED to you!

FU!

[LATrueRedskin]

Seriously, if Coles doesn't want to rework his contract, why is he even asking out? We're not going to do it unless he gives back part of his money. It does seem very childish to me.

[Skinz4lyfe]

I have a feeling that IF he stays, he won't regret it. Gibbs will tweek this offense and we'll take some shots down the field. Everything depends on what Coles wants to do. If he really wants to go, then he has to forfeit some of his bonus. As long as the Redskins continue to hold firm on that decision, then we'll get the best deal possible, one way or another. Coles needs to decide how badly he wants out of DC. Apparently he's gonna play a little hard ball first. Let's see how this plays out.

[bgforever]

I have a feeling that IF he stays, he won't regret it. Gibbs will tweek this offense and we'll take some shots down the field. Everything depends on what Coles wants to do. If he really wants to go, then he has to forfeit some of his bonus. As long as the Redskins continue to hold firm on that decision, then we'll get the best deal possible, one way or another. Coles needs to decide how badly he wants out of DC. Apparently he's gonna play a little hard ball first. Let's see how this plays out.

cool heads prevail. thanks again. I have been boiling over too much on all this flak, from players that are just unbelievable lately, clearly showing how much the AGENTS are pissing me off! I HATE THEM!!!!!!!

[RedskinsVision]

if he thinks the Skins' are just going to release him after investing so much in him after only 2 seasons then he can continue to be unhappy and play hard for the Skins' while getting paid handsomely. he doesn't wanna rework his deal for a trade and thinks the Skins' are backing off an agreement they had.. cry a river LC.. put yourself in the Skins' shoes.

[Vonslydog]

And according to one teammate with knowledge of the situation, Coles has said he would return -- and play hard -- if necessary.
I appreciate the fact he isn't saying that he'll sit out if he doesn't get his way. I believe that if he sticks around (BIG if), he will play as hard as he has the past two years. If there is one big positive thing to say about Coles, it's that he ALWAYS works his butt off.

[LATrueRedskin]

if he thinks the Skins' are just going to release him after investing so much in him after only 2 seasons then he can continue to be unhappy and play hard for the Skins' while getting paid handsomely. he doesn't wanna rework his deal for a trade and thinks the Skins' are backing off an agreement they had.. cry a river LC.. put yourself in the Skins' shoes.

Exactly. I can't believe the guy has the nerve to ask out, but say he still wants all his money. If I was a boss, and one of MY employees came to me and said "I want to quit, but I still expect my salary paid in full," I'd laugh in his face.

[War Hogg]

I can't think of one good reason why Coles would want to leave. Honestly, I've felt his toe has killed his down the field threat and what are we paying $13 million for if he can't get down field? He's played hard and been a quality guy but w/ this stuff coming out he's out my door.

Trade him for Randy Moss straight up, we'll throw in Gardener if they want.

The only problem is no one knows if his toe is hindering his downfield abilities because he PROBABLY RAN ONLY 5 DOWNFIELD ROUTES last season!

[War Hogg]

Some people here need to get a grip....

All this "Gibbs better tell Coles this is the offense we're running so shut up or hit the door!" crap is silly coming from some people here, and am sure thats not the way Gibbs shows his leadership. Teams follow leaders that show RESPECT and RESULTS and Gibbs has only been able to provide one of those things.....People may need to turn on thier TIvos and watch Gibbs first press conferences again and figure out why he didnt wear his three rings...

Everyone on this board needs get a grip on this whole "loyalty to the Redskins" thing and get real! This is a business first and a team sport second. Was Gibbs a loser back in the 90's when he made the abrupt annoncement that he was quitting coaching because of his health. No! There are other things important to him aside from being a coach for the Redskins like his family, health and his future. Same thing with LC. Alot of people here talk down on this man for making those same choices.

[Redskin006]

these kind of situations show a player's true character.

[Skins57]

I just want it all to end

[dogfight6]

He reworks his deal or he stays goes on the field and plays his heart out or we fine him for every catchable ball he drops , blocks he misses or fumbles he causes. Like a little kid said in a baseball move I saw " whats the going rate for a pitcher who can't get anyone out". Whats a reciever worth who won't do his job!

[GolfFreak]

It makes me feel better that he told someone that he would play for the Skins next year if he has to. Knowing this I wouldn't rush to get anything done. Make him honor his contract.

[Redskinfan28]

I'm not sure how the Skins can let him go if the Post article is true. The club won't release him outright, even if he restructures, and he won't restructure so the club can trade him. The Skins cannot afford to absorb the cap hit in a trade.

Coles will likely be a Redskin next year.

[PA Skins Girl]

What a mess. I dont really see a trade happening now. His release for no compensation sucks. His release after June 1 sucks for next year. Returning to the team leaves major question marks. Will the fans boo him every time he drops a ball? Will the fans question whether he is giving his full effort? The answer to those questions are Yes.

This is a mess and the Washington Post will never be forgiven by the front office for breaking this story.

[joethefan]

I'm sick of the Coles situation: he either gets traded or he stays on the team. And he wants to be uncooperative, Gibbs will keep him on the roster and again, he can play or he can sit.

I agree totally....Notice it said "Another player close to the situation said that coles would come back and play". Iwoulder if that person was his next door neighbor...his new agent and butt buddy Rod Gardner!!!

[joethefan]

Make him honor his contract.

That's what he gets for being money hungry and a selfish player...IMO

[redcayman]

This is a no win situation for the skins no mater what. We realease him even with the restructuring we take a hit. We trade him we take a hit and won't be able to replace his talent. We keep him we have a toe ailing disgruntle employee. So I say we keep him and let the "Rollar Coaster" ride begin.

[hail2skins]

What a mess. I dont really see a trade happening now. His release for no compensation sucks. His release after June 1 sucks for next year. Returning to the team leaves major question marks. Will the fans boo him every time he drops a ball? Will the fans question whether he is giving his full effort? The answer to those questions are Yes.

This is a mess and the Washington Post will never be forgiven by the front office for breaking this story.

Very good points. He'll definately feel the frustration of the fans if he is here next year which looks likely to me.

[Beast56Redskin]

I have a feeling that IF he stays, he won't regret it. Gibbs will tweek this offense and we'll take some shots down the field. Everything depends on what Coles wants to do. If he really wants to go, then he has to forfeit some of his bonus. As long as the Redskins continue to hold firm on that decision, then we'll get the best deal possible, one way or another. Coles needs to decide how badly he wants out of DC. Apparently he's gonna play a little hard ball first. Let's see how this plays out.

thats a good point. i think that gibbs will work with him in the offense to create a more favorable situation. however if he wants out, he's gonna have to work with us.

[CNYSkinFan]

Now bear with me but this might be a blessing in disguise.

The way I see it the Redskins Coles and his agent were talking about a possible release but after the Front oFfice started getting possible trade interest they started backing off the release option, wanting the trade option. Coles was only willing to give up the deferred signing bonus installment because he was going to be released and a signing bonus with a new team would make up for that money. A trade would not allow for immediate compensation and Coles is not willing to restructure.

But in the same article sources close to Coles are saying he would return and play hard if he did. Maybe the return door is a little open right now. Remember how mad Demasio Nunyo said Coles was that the story broke in the first place? It could be that he always wanted the door to be open for a return if things did not pan out.

I just hope that the negative press over the past few days have not hardened his heart and steeled him against returning.

[redskin_rich]

Now bear with me but this might be a blessing in disguise.

The way I see it the Redskins Coles and his agent were talking about a possible release but after the Front oFfice started getting possible trade interest they started backing off the release option, wanting the trade option. Coles was only willing to give up the deferred signing bonus installment because he was going to be released and a signing bonus with a new team would make up for that money. A trade would not allow for immediate compensation and Coles is not willing to restructure.

But in the same article sources close to Coles are saying he would return and play hard if he did. Maybe the return door is a little open right now. Remember how mad Demasio Nunyo said Coles was that the story broke in the first place? It could be that he always wanted the door to be open for a return if things did not pan out.

I just hope that the negative press over the past few days have not hardened his heart and steeled him against returning.

I'm thinking the same thing. If we can't get a fair offer for him we make him play another year for us.
He has his own incentives to play hard if this happens-
1. To attract attention from other teams.
2. To prove he is not damaged goods.
3. To deflect the criticism of the Redskin fans for this whole mess.
Whatever happens, it has to be for the good of the team first, Coles second. We didn't approach him to leave, he iniated this.

[BIGSEF3]

i agree. i am feeling pretty confident we will end up keeping coles. his attitude may be bad, but coles was probably upset last year b/c he had been on a team that won 11 games in 2 years. thats attrocious. sure, i bet coles really got some of his teammates down last year.

but this year, that wont happen b/c we will be WINNING. with coles here, and gibbsyear 2, we will be WINNING GAMES, and coles wont have anything to complain about. if he gets to go to the playoffs, he will be happy, trust me.

[akhhorus]

Very good points. He'll definately feel the frustration of the fans if he is here next year which looks likely to me.

If he ends up staying with the Skins, but still complaining; I would hope that he gets booed from time to time.

[Keino]

Fine, Coles wont restructure, he doesnt leave the team. Sit and pout or play. Simple as that. Coles has zero leverage: he has a contract and wont get out of it unless he gives back some of his bonus.

I'm sick of the Coles situation: he either gets traded or he stays on the team. And he wants to be uncooperative, Gibbs will keep him on the roster and again, he can play or he can sit.

Amen.

This is why I think the leak about the situation came from above............

[akhhorus]

Amen.

This is why I think the leak about the situation came from above............

The funniest part is that Coles still has a valid contract, he has ZERO leverage in this situation. If he does want out, he has to give up the cash. Simple as that. And he's lucky I'm not Joe Gibbs: I would bench his ass. I wouldnt cut or trade him and I would move him to the bottom of the depth chart for this.

[SkinsGuru]

If they force hime to stay at least I can wear my Coles Jersey once during a skins game . . . . It was given to me as a Christmas present shortly after new years . . .

[Redskinfan28]

Very good points. He'll definately feel the frustration of the fans if he is here next year which looks likely to me.

That is true, although if he is here, I don't have any doubt he will play hard and be professional. He did that last year even though he wanted out.

I am concerned about his toe and his ability to separate, but I like being a LC fan because he plays the game the way it is supposed to be played.

[bgforever]

Some people here need to get a grip....

All this "Gibbs better tell Coles this is the offense we're running so shut up or hit the door!" crap is silly coming from some people here, and am sure thats not the way Gibbs shows his leadership. Teams follow leaders that show RESPECT and RESULTS and Gibbs has only been able to provide one of those things.....People may need to turn on thier TIvos and watch Gibbs first press conferences again and figure out why he didnt wear his three rings...

Everyone on this board needs get a grip on this whole "loyalty to the Redskins" thing and get real! This is a business first and a team sport second. Was Gibbs a loser back in the 90's when he made the abrupt annoncement that he was quitting coaching because of his health. No! There are other things important to him aside from being a coach for the Redskins like his family, health and his future. Same thing with LC. Alot of people here talk down on this man for making those same choices.

Not sure HOW you equate Joe Gibbs of all people with a receiver wanting out without attaining the pennacles of his profession. First of all, Joe Gibbs attained the highest honors he could possibly have as a coach in his profeession. Coles was in his "first" Pro Bowl with the Skins in 2003. The second year, 2004, he was injured, rejecting coaches and trainer's advice for surgery, and defiantely rejected options to assist both he and the team in accommodating a solution. Coles posturing is nothing more than grandstand with advice from his agent, which is likely to backfire to his embarrassment. Shame for a man so gifted and embraced so fast by the fans. I feel violated and unappreciated by him, as a fan. I will no longer root for LC - stay or not.(edited out unnecessary remark - BF)

Oh yeah, we're entitled to opinions, so where do you get off telling "everyone" on this board needs to get a grip?" LOYALTY IS REAL! ITS BUSINESS! and if he can't commit, get the freak out!