Buying into the system

[joethefan]

I'm gonna try not let this thread be long and drawn out ,although I do appreciate Washington, Springs, Daniels and others coming in to help us. Having said that, should I become an opponent to FA or should I become pissed at our FO...

It seems as though we always spend too much time trying to Band-Aid our team and Joe is eating the cheese. Players will never buy into a system when FA stresses greed. I think.

To be honest, I don't feel that Clinton Portis has completely bought into our system yet. Yea he took the money but I'm having a problem with guys taking the money and not buying into the system especially if the system has bought into them by offering big money for thier services. A straight up trade with Bailey,a number 2 for Portis was rediculas IMO, which pisses me off about our FO. They will sell their mamas if they could get something for em j/k.

FA will come back and kick you in the butt esp if a player doesn't perform. Now, we currently have a situation that we didn't need in LC all because Danny saw a flashy player in coles and threw the ATM at him!!!! When will the sign at Redskin Park stop Reading WASHINGTON ATM'S !!!

I once asked the question, why can't we just focus on the draft and bring in players that we feel can help us. Those are players that buy into a system. Remember only two teams can go to the SB. I feel that the "win right now mentality". is rediculous, which many owners put on their teams.

I know what many of you may say, we haven't been to the playoffs in over ten years but once again we are feeling the sting of change. I feel that only through the draft will you get true players that want to buy into a system and maybe a player or two in FA.

[BurgundyNGold]

Get outta my head, get outta my head! I couldn't have said it any better.

[joethefan]

Get outta my head, get outta my head! I couldn't have said it any better.

THANKS

[COUNCILMAN]

Joethefan is right. We need to take a player at number 9 who fits the profile of what the team should be. Forget best available athlete and all that crap.

Thats why I laugh at these people who way this guy or that guy can't be drafted with the number 9 pick because its too high to draft him. WHO SAYS? The experts?

You take ANY guy at number 9 who can help you more than the other 500 players out there waiting to be drafted. Regardless of MEL's big board or ESPN or regardless of what the fans think is too high for that guy or this one.

You pick who you need the most, period. If you can trade down and still get the same guy, great! But if you can't you certainly don't pass on the player you need the MOST just because somebody says its too high to take him.

What then. Do you pass on the players you want simply because somebody says that you should draft somebody else HIGHER because of their draft rating. Thats just plain rediculous.

[BurgundyNGold]

Joethefan is right. We need to take a player at number 9 who fits the profile of what the team should be. Forget best available athlete and all that crap.

Thats why I laugh at these people who way this guy or that guy can't be drafted with the number 9 pick because its too high to draft him. WHO SAYS? The experts?

You take ANY guy at number 9 who can help you more than the other 500 players out there waiting to be drafted. Regardless of MEL's big board or ESPN or regardless of what the fans think is too high for that guy or this one.

You pick who you need the most, period. If you can trade down and still get the same guy, great! But if you can't you certainly don't pass on the player you need the MOST just because somebody says its too high to take him.

What then. Do you pass on the players you want simply because somebody says that you should draft somebody else HIGHER because of their draft rating. Thats just plain rediculous.
Uh... I'm not sure that's what Joe said. What you're saying is draft for need as opposed to best available athlete. A case can be made for your argument. But a pretty strong case can be against it too (see Heath Shuler, Micahel Westbrook, et al).

[joethefan]

Uh... I'm not sure that's what Joe said. What you're saying is draft for need as opposed to best available athlete. A case can be made for your argument. But a pretty strong case can be against it too (see Heath Shuler, Micahel Westbrook, et al).

Well It simply is like this Taylor fit both categories....he was the best player available and suited a need. And thank GOD it panned out. We know we need a reciever simlar to Keyshawn or TO.

So as we rool the dice this year, we know that our offense needs help. Now the WR postion is hurting, so I say those guys that are here, Jacobs, Thrash...become front runners for starting positions b/c they understand the system and have played ST very well..everyone else is an addition to the mix. In the past Gibbs would award players playing time if they do well on ST. I hope he does the same here.

[chrisbcbu]

Wow Council, not sure where you got ur info from, but i dont think that is what Joe is trying to say.

Drafting for need is good, but why take someone who is projected to go in the late 20's at #9 and have to sign him at a #9 pick when he should be paid much less. And there we go over paying again.

While i agree with you Joe i feel we also do need to bring in some PROVEN talent. Not at every position and only at a reasonable price. Im tired of overpaying for ppl, when there are other players available that are not AS good but still pretty good for far less.

[COUNCILMAN]

Uh... I'm not sure that's what Joe said. What you're saying is draft for need as opposed to best available athlete. A case can be made for your argument. But a pretty strong case can be against it too (see Heath Shuler, Micahel Westbrook, et al).

Well, what I interpreted from the thread is that you need players who buy into your system. But you DON'T get players who are just great athletes and then try to FORCE them into your system.

So it goes without saying that nobody can buy into your system unless that athlete is already predisposed for your system. Your interviews and workouts with him go a long way toward deciding that. Your need at a position goes a long way toward deciding that.

Lets say Mike Williams is available at number 9. Is he drafted JUST because we need a wideout? What if he wants to be the STAR on the team. What if he isn't fast? What if he wished he could have played in Oakland? Would you still draft a player just because he is the best athlete and you have a need, or like I said, wouldn't you just draft the guy who FITS into your system and FITS into your mold and FITS into the situation and PROFILE that you have created.

Thats what I was talking about and thats what I thought Joe was saying when he mentioned the PROFILE of the team.

[Cruising270]

great post!

Losing players because of the greed that FA has created is sad but I still think part of it is building a team that players want to play for, weather they were drafted or signed in free agency. Its not easy and there is no blue print for it, but I do agree it starts by losing the image that you only come to Washington to get $$$PAID$$$ and not to win. When Clinton Portis first came here I remember him joking about Snyder paying big bucks and it lead me to an early disliking of his character. But who can blame him for what he said....it is true. We have to loose that image and if the only way to do it is loosing players like Smoot then it's for the good of the team. We have to start setting examples and not making exceptions.

This will be easier to do though if we are a winning franchise, nobody on the Patriots wants to leave that team. Now if they had our record, then I'd put money the fact we'd see alot more players wanting to leave.

I just miss the days of watching a guy wear the same Jersey until he retires. Could you have imagined Darrell Green playing anywhere else? It's just sad how in all sports the isn't much loyalty between players and teams.

[Ohiofan]

Well at least this year we will not win the "offseason" superbowl. If anything, we will be scrambling to fill numerous big holes rather than making a big splash by signing four or five of the highest priced UFA's. I think ERA II is proving to be a very large challenge for Mr. Gibs.

[BurgundyNGold]

Thats what I was talking about and thats what I thought Joe was saying when he mentioned the PROFILE of the team.
I would say -- and I think this is what Joe is saying -- that you 1) Don't try to build a team using FA, and 2) Don't just go out and sign big name players because of their resumes.

First off, the future of our beloved team in out there, in the draft this year, next year and the year after. These are cheap, young players who can be indoctrinated into the "Redskins way" of doing things. You very likely won't find those type of guys in FA. But, since FA can be very useful too, we have to be selective in FAs that fit our way of doing things. James Thrash comes to mind when I think of a great FA/trade pickup. He wasn't the best available at anything and his signing didn't make for great ink in the post. But that guy ia a team-first player who just does what he needs to do to help the team win.

Those are the types of players that you should target, be it in FA or via the draft: Players who can help you win. But, you have to balance talent and character. And nobody has traditionally done that better than Joe Gibbs.

[joethefan]

I would say -- and I think this is what Joe is saying -- that you 1) Don't try to build a team using FA, and 2) Don't just go out and sign big name players because of their resumes.



WOW way to Pharaphrase.....that's what I meant.

[silverspring]

It is hard to know if players are buying into the "system" when the system changes every year. Last year was the first year of the gibbs system and I would guess the system will be completely overhauled for next year. Our defense is a known right now, but the offense will change considerable. So how can one know?

[War Hogg]

It is hard to know if players are buying into the "system" when the system changes every year. Last year was the first year of the gibbs system and I would guess the system will be completely overhauled for next year. Our defense is a known right now, but the offense will change considerable. So how can one know?

I agree. Buy into what system? Not even Gibbs bought into his own system last year.... These players have brains and a understanding of the game as well. I think Gibbs plans for offense did not pan out the way anyone would have expected and as a result alot of confidence and faith has been lost by the team and staff. I also think Coles was one of those players that didnt agree with Gibbs plans for the offense (can you blame him).