Is it me or does it seem we are getting our tails kicked this off-season?

[DPHoo]

[akhhorus]

Nope. Adjust your glasses.

We lost Coles, Pierce and Smoot--butt we locked in Samuels for life and added two solid vets and a gamebreaker in Moss. The Skins will be better off for this offseason

[truant]

It's you.

Being smart with the cap and filling in blue collar players for 'me' type personalities... best offseason we've had in awhile.

One player doesn't make a team. Well maybe a Manning or Farve back in the day... but we are talking about a 6-10 team.

Yes... 6-10.

No one is irreplacable.

The Redskins stayed firm on their offers and they're not blowing their money on high-priced FAs.

[CrimsonTribe]

This is usually the time when we kick tail, so I will take a little tail kicking now if it means we get to kick some tail during the regular season. Wow... lot of tail kicking in this one.

[whitskins]

We're playing our offseason like the Eagles and Pats have the last half decade, but we're paying for the sins of our past in a few ways. But this is a change for the good, we'll emerge a better team.

We'll no longer be paper champions and I think that's a good thing.

[ArtMonk]

I honestly cannot believe this! If we do have a better record next year is soley due to our coaching staff and their adjustments. I do believe we will be a better team. But this is will in no way be a more talented team than last year. We have lost three pro bowl caliber players and gained a 30 year old average reciever, a better than average center (great pick up), and now a underacheiving wide reciever who we passed on in the draft to take a guy we are now trading. Absolutely mind bogling. The offseason us to be the best part about being a Redskins fan. Now what do we look forward to?
:cry: Oh, and smoot is a liar. If it is only a couple of million then I will stay! How about a 8 hundred thousand, idiot!

[SusQhnnaSkin]

Ask me again around weak 8, when kicking butt really matters. Trust in Joe. He'll get it done.

[bgforever]

I know you got yer answers, but throw the OLD concept of panick and grabbing "recognizable names" it just won't work to put a winner together in D. C.

Know the feeling, but we're in better shape than you think :)

[redcayman]

We will hopefully be fine. Its good to let some of this hungry new talent emerge. Who knows we might find some gems on our own roster. Look at Peirce. This off season might be where we turned a corner so all I can say is lets see where the chips may fall. Remember we were a 6-10 team last year. Hopefully this will be the last time we are talking about free agency and teh draft as our time.

[gbalzac]

I honestly cannot believe this! If we do have a better record next year is soley due to our coaching staff and their adjustments. I do believe we will be a better team. But this is will in no way be a more talented team than last year. We have lost three pro bowl caliber players and gained a 30 year old average reciever, a better than average center (great pick up), and now a underacheiving wide reciever who we passed on in the draft to take a guy we are now trading. Absolutely mind bogling. The offseason us to be the best part about being a Redskins fan. Now what do we look forward to?
:cry: Oh, and smoot is a liar. If it is only a couple of million then I will stay! How about a 8 hundred thousand, idiot!


Agreed...people are looking through the burgundy and gold glasses...but here's to hoping! Record might be better but talent won't be.

[Jimreaper007]

It's called addition by subtraction


We no longer need big names or people who are bigger than the team. For all of you younger Skins fans, those Superbowl trophies the Skins have came from team ball and not waiting for a bunch of indivuals to get their lives together.

[GoDannyBoy]

Hey we were the best 6-10 team out there! I think we need to get away from signing big names and start building a team.

Only way to win.

[smoak]

It's called addition by subtraction


We no longer need big names or people who are bigger than the team. For all of you younger Skins fans, those Superbowl trophies the Skins have came from team ball and not waiting for a bunch of indivuals to get their lives together.

GREAT POINT!!!

Come crunch time in a close game give me a Patten, Thrash, Moss, and Jacobs combo over no heart (Coles) and no courage (Gardner).

Any way, I agree that just by getting rid of Coles and Gardner we'll be better off.

Also Cooley and Taylor will be another year along the learning curve.

[GoDannyBoy]

It's called addition by subtraction


We no longer need big names or people who are bigger than the team. For all of you younger Skins fans, those Superbowl trophies the Skins have came from team ball and not waiting for a bunch of indivuals to get their lives together.

I agree those old skins team hardly had any guys that got respect. Not many pro bowls but guys played hard every week and squeak out a victory on Sunday. They found a way to win most every week, not an excuse why they did not win.

[BandWagon]

Ok guys here's the difference and the horrible catch 22 we have found ourselves in every offseason in recent memory....

We ROCK in free agency and on paper we should win the Super Bowl every year.

Guess what...that doesn't work. It's adjustment time folks...throw away the expectations of big name acquisitions in FA. Just as Gibbs has purged the team of malcontents.

Teams win championships. And most of time it's not teams with big name, pricey, all-pro type players. Check the Hall of Fame...who's in there from our 3 SB teams? Gibbs and Riggins...that's it.

You don't have to look back far for more examples...how about New England? They had a WR playing DB because of catastrophic injuries to the secondary...well catastrophic on paper...they overcame because they were a team.

Sure maybe our team looks weaker on paper...but frankly, I'm sick to death of looking great on paper each year, getting hyped up and ending up SUCKING in the end.

Let's try a different approach this time with a Hall of Fame coach and see what happens, huh?!

[rskinsfan10]

Agreed...people are looking through the burgundy and gold glasses...but here's to hoping! Record might be better but talent won't be.

I disagree. We've tried the "go out and buy the best" approach, and since 1999 the results are not good.

I believe that many of us realize that it's time to go with the other approach.

[gbalzac]

I disagree. We've tried the "go out and buy the best" approach, and since 1999 the results are not good.

I believe that many of us realize that it's time to go with the other approach.


I'd rather see the middle approach personally...

[rskinsfan10]

I'd rather see the middle approach personally...

We are in the middle.

They could have sat back and signed absolutley no one of significance, while letting Smoot, Pierce and Coles go.

[gbalzac]

We are in the middle.

They could have sat back and signed absolutley no one of significance, while letting Smoot, Pierce and Coles go.


that's pretty much what's happened...we got the pats 4th reciever and a serviceable center

[rskinsfan10]

that's pretty much what's happened...we got the pats 4th reciever and a serviceable center

A center that kept the starter's job when he became healthy, on a team that ran the ball very well.

A WR with one of if not the highest YPC in the NFL.

There were also the two players on the defensive side of the ball that played very important roles in the unit playing so well last year.

Let's also take into account that the draft has yet to occur, and that FA isn't over.

You're unhappy. I'm ecstatic.

[Davey]

I honestly cannot believe this! If we do have a better record next year is soley due to our coaching staff and their adjustments. I do believe we will be a better team. But this is will in no way be a more talented team than last year. We have lost three pro bowl caliber players and gained a 30 year old average reciever, a better than average center (great pick up), and now a underacheiving wide reciever who we passed on in the draft to take a guy we are now trading. Absolutely mind bogling. The offseason us to be the best part about being a Redskins fan. Now what do we look forward to?
:cry: Oh, and smoot is a liar. If it is only a couple of million then I will stay! How about a 8 hundred thousand, idiot!

According to the Washington Post the Vikings' offer was much more frontloaded. His salaries for the first three seasons supposedly average $6 million.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18156-2005Mar8.html

[bgforever]

A center that kept the starter's job when he became healthy, on a team that ran the ball very well.

A WR with one of if not the highest YPC in the NFL.

There were also the two players on the defensive side of the ball that played very important roles in the unit playing so well last year.

Let's also take into account that the draft has yet to occur, and that FA isn't over.

You're unhappy. I'm ecstatic.

you get a good cigar and your favorite drink!

[Kope65]

Here is a glass of be patient and watch for you-

How loud would the doomcallers be screaming if we had picked up some of these names - Mote Colmen, Gary Clark, Dave Butz, Joe Jacoby, Ricky sanders and Niel Okelwitz or players like them.

Look where they were drafted or picked up from. 11th round, undrafted free agent or from the usfl / canada is the theme you will find.

Have faith. It is not about talent (all though that is important) it is about getting MEN that will MAN UP when things get hard and they have been punched in the mouth.

Sign men who will fight for the men they stand with. Not prima donnas worried about stats. Sign men like those that stood at Thermopylae. Lol kk that was a bit over the top but you get the point :)

[Keino]

This is a good thing. We've won every Off-season of the last 5 years and it has translated into one .500 season and the rest sub .500 season with no chance at sniffing the playoffs.

I hope we continue to lose this off-season. No more Summerbowl Championships and we might be playing in January. Which would you prefer?

[WinnpegSkinsFan]

I think the Skins free spending ways of the past laid the foundation for some of our loses this year. We couldn't afford to keep 2 "core Redskins" because of Danny Boy's big chequebook. We tried the free spending path with no success now its time to try the more sensible approach. In a way this offseason may have done the Skins a favour and forced them to spend FA money more judiciously. While I hated losing Pierce & Smoot we shouldn't overpay for them either. A little more cap room would have been nice in order to keep one of the 2 core Skins here. Jerkwinkle Coles sure didn't help out. Too bad he didn't return some of that inflated $13M SB.

[Keino]

Agreed...people are looking through the burgundy and gold glasses...but here's to hoping! Record might be better but talent won't be.
This is the most ridiculous comment I've read today. What matters more than the record? Who cares if we sign Mother Theresa to start at WR if it translates into a 10-6 record and the playoffs?

Me, I care about wins and losses more than I care about who is getting them.

[silveranblack]

I dont think so, you guys have a great defense and santana helps also with the deep threat, and what do you guys think about my team the raiders

[SusQhnnaSkin]

I dont think so, you guys have a great defense and santana helps also with the deep threat, and what do you guys think about my team the raiders

Moss=best WR in the NFL. Collins strength is his deep ball accuracy. Porter should also do very well opposite Moss. I wanted to see Porter in Burg&Gold. Jordan is a straight beast. Raiders score many points in '05. Really don't know much your D-lost a good LB but Phil Buchannon is nice. Playoffs? Who knows, maybe!

[PA Skins Girl]

The Coles thing does not leave a good impression of the Skins. The fact that Coles was that unhappy and that we were willing to take a $6 million cap hit to trade him gives an impression of a serious problem at Redskin Park. I'm not saying there is an underlying problem, it just gives outsiders that impression.

Losing Smoot and Pierce is a matter of doing business in the NFL. It's a shame, but that is todays NFL.

Restructuring Samuels was good. It needed to be done.

I love adding Patten, Moss and Rabach. I think they are all quality individuals and will improve our image in the long run. I think our passing game needed a change and Patten and Moss are explosive guys that will make plays.

I think we have resigned all other UFAs now too.

And the Gardner trade is drawing interest.

Its not all bad.

[hail2skins]

There's just no pleasing some Redskins fans. Just can't do it. Spend alot, they whine. Don't spend enough, they whine. Don't spend at all, they whine.

[Jimreaper007]

This is clearly a glass half empty or Glass half full situation...Some will see this offseason as a complete bust while some of us (and I am in this group) will see this offseason as a shift back to team over indivuals.

Gone are Coles, Smoot, Pierce....

All big names...all big money...all could have stayed if team was more important. We are getting to our core Redskins now so I am looking forward to seeing what Joe Gibbs can do with players who want to be here.

[PA Skins Girl]

I dont think so, you guys have a great defense and santana helps also with the deep threat, and what do you guys think about my team the raiders
Love Jerry Porter. Moss? I do not like him at all personally, but obviously he is a great WR. I wouldnt want him representing my colors, but I can understand Raider fans being excited. Not sure about Collins. He came on strong at the end of last season. Norv still doesnt seem to fit into the Raider nation. He's so wishy-washy.

All in all, I'd say you obviously did well this offseason and should be much improved. But take it from us Skins fans, the offseason superbowl is nothing to brag about. Good luck to ya.

[Axegrinder]

I'm tired of winning the offseason.
I'd rather win when it counts.

[LATrueRedskin]

There's just no pleasing some Redskins fans. Just can't do it. Spend alot, they whine. Don't spend enough, they whine. Don't spend at all, they whine.

Absolutely. Nobody is patient enought to wait it out and see how things go. We've broken the bank in previous years and we didn't get anywhere.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

im tired of all this offseason talk.......bring on september!!

[swheeler]

that's pretty much what's happened...we got the pats 4th reciever and a serviceable center

The pats had 4 4th receivers, or 4 1st receivers, depending on how you want to look at it. It works for them. There some stats in another thread showing Patten to be their 2nd last year.

[LATrueRedskin]

im tired of all this offseason talk.......bring on september!!

Seriously! I was posting late last night on X's and O's and I realized I'm not going to be able to wait this long to watch another Skins game. Somebody help me!!

[akhhorus]

The pats had 4 4th receivers, or 4 1st receivers, depending on how you want to look at it. It works for them. There some stats in another thread showing Patten to be their 2nd last year.

They had neither. They had all X or Z wideouts, no Ys.

[fent]

Seriously! I was posting late last night on X's and O's and I realized I'm not going to be able to wait this long to watch another Skins game. Somebody help me!!

in my perfect world the draft would be this weekend and we'd start playing the next

[swheeler]

in my perfect world the draft would be this weekend and we'd start playing the next

As long as the new players get the systems uploaded into their brains like in the matrix.

[redwolf1218]

The pats had 4 4th receivers, or 4 1st receivers, depending on how you want to look at it. It works for them. There some stats in another thread showing Patten to be their 2nd last year.
true and i expect they will upgrade. everyone said this about them when they didnt have a running back, but they went out and got Cory Dillon.

[LATrueRedskin]

in my perfect world the draft would be this weekend and we'd start playing the next

Oh, man would that be sweet. Football seems so damn far away. I need to see something. The draft is even a ways away.

[Skinz4lyfe]

There's just no pleasing some Redskins fans. Just can't do it. Spend alot, they whine. Don't spend enough, they whine. Don't spend at all, they whine.

This might be the best post I've read in quite some time. I like what the FO has done this off-season (w/the exception of how we handled the Coles situation). We haven't gotten into bidding wars, overpaid for players, and we've upgraded in certain positions (WR, C) while obviously taking some hits in other areas (LB, CB). But we've "covered" our butts thanks to some fortunate circumstances. Hopefully Harris or Wilds can step up next year to fill in for Smoot and Marshall, Barrow (or insert random linebacker name here) can do well also. Our coaching staff will coach up whoever is put on the field. Think about it, before this season who even knew about Antonio Pierce, Lamar Marshall, Joe Salave'a, Ryan Clark, Chris Clemons, Demetric Evans, Ron Warner, or Ryan Boschetti. All of these no name players were decent contributors when given an opportunity to play. You can even throw in Cooley and Royal as a key contributors on certain occasions. All of the moves that we've made this off-season may not work right now they could be good in the long run.

[silveranblack]

I think the raiders will be great I actually went on an interview for the raiders pr job. I asked one of the guys if porter was really going to leave and he said no al will not let porter walk away al davis said I have a plan that will work for the raiders reciving core and run game.

[akhhorus]

I think the raiders will be great I actually went on an interview for the raiders pr job. I asked one of the guys if porter was really going to leave and he said no al will not let porter walk away al davissaid I have a plan that will work for the raiders reciving core and run game.

Welcome to HR, but this is not a thread for Raiders discussion. Check out the All NFL Forum.

[redskin_rich]

I think the raiders will be great I actually went on an interview for the raiders pr job. I asked one of the guys if porter was really going to leave and he said no al will not let porter walk away al davissaid I have a plan that will work for the raiders reciving core and run game.
Yeah, you would be perfect to represent them.

[silveranblack]

evry time I go there no one responds.

[silveranblack]

but I guess i will try later.

[silveranblack]

I think the red skins will be good patten,moss,portis, gibbs could make playoffs also that stud defense.

[SusQhnnaSkin]

Welcome to HR, but this is not a thread for Raiders discussion. Check out the All NFL Forum.

Wonder if this is the same Raider fan that was talking smack yesterday but is just calmer today under a different name...

[akhhorus]

Ok, silver and black, why did you just make three seperate posts there?

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

Wonder if this is the same Raider fan that was talking smack yesterday but is just calmer today under a different name...
:thinker:

[Jero]

Ok, silver and black, why did you just make three seperate posts there?

This cat spells and formulates a sentence about as well as any Raider fan i know...

[redwolf1218]

with guys like Randy Moss and Jerry Porter, one big difference is this: they dont have to be open. there arent too many 6'-3 db's (like our Taylor) to break up those jump balls to guys like them.

[silveranblack]

I dont know, I was not on yesterday but im sorry about what whoever was here yesterday said that is if he is a raider fan.

[LATrueRedskin]

I think the raiders will be great I actually went on an interview for the raiders pr job. I asked one of the guys if porter was really going to leave and he said no al will not let porter walk away al davis said I have a plan that will work for the raiders reciving core and run game.

You are such a fraud.

[SusQhnnaSkin]

I dont know, I was not on yesterday but im sorry about what whoever was here yesterday said that is if he is a raider fan.

OK man...no big deal to be, just seemed a little odd- 2 nights in a row a Raider fan.

[Dexter72]

Our two biggest 'additions' for next season will be a healthy Jansen and a healthy Lavar...quite possibly our best offensive and defensive players...where would the Eagles have been if TO hadn't played all year and Dawkins played 2 games? Probably about 8-8. And we still have number 9, and will almost certainly add a stud Wr (Edwards/Williams) or CB (Pac-man/Rolle), not to mention a little cap room.

[hail2skins]

OK man...no big deal to be, just seemed a little odd- 2 nights in a row a Raider fan.

Don't be fooled. This is the same person. I can't believe he thinks we don't see it. Technology is a wonderful thing if used appropriately. hint, hint.

[dj_stouty]

Gibbs is quickly changing the culture of this team. Consider this offseason our rehab period.

[rhummer37]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18484-2005Mar8.html

Either way the Skins were going to get blasted.

They were either going to overpay ("as they have been known to do") or they were going to have to save on some cap dollars by letting them go.


Whether this is a sign of poor cap management from the years past will be determined by how far we get in the playoffs next year (yea, I said it).


WAITING FOR SEPTEMBER!

[Sweepea436]

We lost some favorites. A couple homegrown, that always stinks. But I definitely wouldn't say we are getting are butts kicked. Were getting our O line right for our real star Portis, receivers that aren't number happy, because they'll probably only be used to loosen up the D for the run game, and D will be good regardless. It's a good system.

[CarMike]

Who cares if we're getting our tails kicked this off season. Its the actual season that matters.

You'd think Redskin fans would know that first hand.....

[BigPlayJay]

I'm glad that we are finally going to lose our title as undisputed champions of the offseason!

Look where it has gotten us.

You pay these players outrageous amounts to come here, they play for a couple years often not living up to the money they got then they want out. Then a guy like Coles who got near 15 million off of us for two slighlty above average years wonders why the owner would be upset about it and declares he has "done nothing wrong". Then after agreeing to a longterm deaL for a bloddy fortune decides after two years thats not enough and he has to get more if he is granted his OWN request of going to another team!!!!!!!! ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Makes you want to scream!

No thanks, I'll take the middle rung players who will die on the field to win the game if necessary.

[Spence]

Surely every Redskins fan should know this by now: YOU DO NOT WIN TITLES IN THE OFFSEASON!

Repeat as often as necessary.

[smoak]

Actually I think foundations for titles are built in the offseason, but they are NOT successfully built by swabbing up every player that made the Pro Bowl from 10 years ago. We have a nice group of people to build on and now I am looking forward to the draft.

[SlingingSam]

I honestly cannot believe this! If we do have a better record next year is soley due to our coaching staff and their adjustments. I do believe we will be a better team. But this is will in no way be a more talented team than last year. We have lost three pro bowl caliber players and gained a 30 year old average reciever, a better than average center (great pick up), and now a underacheiving wide reciever who we passed on in the draft to take a guy we are now trading. Absolutely mind bogling. The offseason us to be the best part about being a Redskins fan. Now what do we look forward to?
:cry: Oh, and smoot is a liar. If it is only a couple of million then I will stay! How about a 8 hundred thousand, idiot!

We have had the "more talented people" for the past four seasons, and haven't won anything. Gibbs teams 1981 to 1992, had 1 HOF player (Riggens). Gibbs does not need the superstars.

[Redskinfan28]

I think its been a poor offseason. I'm not sure who the core Redskins are after losing Smoot. Gregg Williams is going to earn his money this year.

[PennSkinsFan]

Surely every Redskins fan should know this by now: YOU DO NOT WIN TITLES IN THE OFFSEASON!

Repeat as often as necessary.

and this franchise is total testimony to that fact because for the past five years, we were Champions of the Off-Season, Champions on paper, Champions in Star Power, but FAILURES ON THE FIELD!

[skin-deep]

I've heard this TE talk and I just don't understand it? Heath Miller? What was rookie Chris Cooley last year? He had 37 catches, 300+ yards, for SIX touchdowns as a rookie! As a rookie! Forget talk of a TE even if it is Heath Miller. Chris will go to probowls. Probably next year if he stays healthy. Go DE or Williams in the draft. They'll be workable players cut down the line to fill some of the other holes.

[silveranblack]

Well, the offseason is never really great and the draft is one of the most boring things in football. I stick old re-runs on NFL total access.

[rskinsfan10]

Surely every Redskins fan should know this by now: YOU DO NOT WIN TITLES IN THE OFFSEASON!

Repeat as often as necessary.

It's becoming increasingly frustrating that so many fans seem to not get this, even after the recent offseasons that have netted us absolutely zero success on the field.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Surely every Redskins fan should know this by now: YOU DO NOT WIN TITLES IN THE OFFSEASON!

Repeat as often as necessary.

Your just wasting your breath Tom. It's a catch 22 with some people, like they prefer to be Summer Bowl Champs instead of the real deal.