No need for negativity but I have this to say...

[Skinsguy1]

First and foremost I've been a member for a while...but normally I just read what you guys have to say...But I have to break my silence....

As I know a lot of you do, I loved Fred Smoot. From the day he was drafted he has been my favorite player, and other than a bad 2nd season he has been a very good redskin. But today I feel let down.

Fred Smoot loved to be a Redskin. He loved the area, and he wanted to be here for his career. But now he is not. For a contract that seems affordable even in the 'Skins current situation.

I guess with my disapointment I have to question one thing. I love Joe Gibbs, but here goes nothing.

Since his hiring here he has talked about core redskins players. And at the end of the season I bet every one of us would have included Coles, Pierce and Smoot as three of our core Redskins. But where are they now???

Instead all three of them are gone, and I know Coles acted on his own...but man, I'd rather have kept theguys that have produced for us. Sure, I welcome Moss and Patten and the baltimore dude, but what about the guys that have proven themselves here??? For me its just disapointing... FRED SMOOT WAS A REDSKIN..HE WAS A HARD WORKING GUY THAT LOVED US. I HATE TO SECOND GUESS WHAT WE DO, BUT I HAVE TO QUESTION THIS MOVE.

I WISH YOU THE BEST FRED...I WOULD'VE SPENT 11 MIL, but im just a college student.

Sincerely, a heart broken Redskin fan

[swheeler]

I was under the impression smoot said he would come back if he didn't get an offer for a couple mil more than ours, and in the end he left for only $800,000 more. I could be wrong though.

[redskin_rich]

Fred was offered a very good deal by the Skins. He felt he could get more and he did. What is the problem? Do you think the Skins should have overpayed for Fred to keep him here as a Skin, even if it meant screwing up our future?

[Skinsguy1]

YES, I would've given him .5 million more...11 vs. 10.5 is very doable in my mine...

I hope Walt Harris does well...but we make a mistake...with two players...Smoot and Pierce are two guys that wanted to be here..disapointing

[silveranblack]

sounds like Charles woodson our best cover guy, talks could land him in dallas with ty law. My source was a few raiders fans I know.

[tbfoster1]

sounds like Charles woodson our best cover guy, talks could land him in dallas with ty law. My source was a few raiders fans I know.

that is some B.S. if I've ever seen some B.S.

[redskin_rich]

YES, I would've given him .5 million more...11 vs. 10.5 is very doable in my mine...

I hope Walt Harris does well...but we make a mistake...with two players...Smoot and Pierce are two guys that wanted to be here..disapointing
If you remember, Smoot said if it came down to a million or so difference, he would stay with the Skins. The Vikes probably gave him a lot in base salary in the first 2 or 3 years of the deal. They could afford it, we can't. You can't get caught up in players you like in this era of free agency. It's all business and I personally think the Skins have handled this offseason well.

[silveranblack]

True some teams lost thier key Offensive/Defensive players this year redskins kept it cool, The raiders also had two big gains.Moss,Jordan and the resign of porter.

[guinness4health]

I was under the impression smoot said he would come back if he didn't get an offer for a couple mil more than ours, and in the end he left for only $800,000 more. I could be wrong though.

i read somewhere that the viking deal was front loaded a bit, would have paid him more up front in the first three years....salary he is going to see regardless...

my only questions were the skins offer the opportunity to match it?

[redskin_rich]

True some teams lost thier key Offensive/Defensive players this year redskins kept it cool, The raiders also had two big gains.Moss,Jordan and the resign of porter.
Okay, you are being civil but we are not talking about the Raiders here. Do you understand that? There is a forum called the Navaho for talking about other teams.

[guinness4health]

Fred was offered a very good deal by the Skins. He felt he could get more and he did. What is the problem? Do you think the Skins should have overpayed for Fred to keep him here as a Skin, even if it meant screwing up our future?

i am not sure the deal he signed seemed like he is getting overpayed...

[redskin_rich]

i am not sure the deal he signed seemed like he is getting overpayed...
Really, elaborate, please.

[bgforever]

If you remember, Smoot said if it came down to a million or so difference, he would stay with the Skins. The Vikes probably gave him a lot in base salary in the first 2 or 3 years of the deal. They could afford it, we can't. You can't get caught up in players you like in this era of free agency. It's all business and I personally think the Skins have handled this offseason well.

That's what the Washingtonpost.com reported, with "additional information" in it's article. Smoot got 6 mil a year for 3 years, (not including the bonus and remaining years. The Bonus itself was actually smaller than what we offered). Basically Minnesota is on the fence like a couple of other coaches, Edwards in NY and just maybe Norval in Oakland, to win it all in the next year or two or pack.

Gibbs isn't in that relm, thus the methodical approach. We got outbidded for the exact likely times we wouldn't be able to give him such a big load up front AND a HUGE Cap hit.

[silveranblack]

How about the pats they made whole lot of cuts including thy're cordinators they got it the worst this season.

[silverspring]

this offseason has been rough. i think we had to make these moves but they are all questionable.
On one hand we got pierce, smoot and coles:
I do think Pierce was a product of the system, but nonetheless his leadership skills on the field seemed irreplaceable, but how could we possible give the guy that much money?

Clearly this coles had to go, his own teammates were talking smak about him. I don't dislike moss but this wasn't a great trade. I kind of leaned towards releasing coles for the 5mil. However, i assume FO was concerned about our softness in the WR position and this seemed like the best option. Who knows maybe moss will be over his injury issues and have a breakout year, he clearly could be a game changer. I wonder if the whole coles mess didn't hamstring the FO with the smoot/pierce signings.


Smoot, well I don't think smoot is a top ten corner, everyone forgets he is covering the #2 guy, and injury prone, and 10.5 was more than enough. But then again this is a "core redskin" and when it comes down to 800000, after we already lost pierce i it is a tough call, why we wouldn't match the offer or at least the SB or some kind of guaranteed bonus.

And then you have samuels. Redskin for life, well that is cool but we didn't draw much of a line in the sand with his salary. Sure he restructured but wow that was pricey. Not exactly consistent with the smoot pierce signing policy.

Then On the other hand we got patten and our new center rabach. Both smart, fiscally conservative moves. No one can dispute these moves.

So here we have the skins decreeing a new policy of fiscal conservatism, which i invite with open arms. The sad thing is smoot and pierce were fallout of this policy. It is almost like we made an example of them. Any other year and the FO would have matched these offers. The sad thing is at the same time, we are preaching about the new gibbs error and the rebirth of the core redskin which he labeled pierce and smoot as many times. Unfortunately "core redskin" conflicts with the cap and our check book. Yet we restructured samuels to an enormous deal cause he is a core redskin. It definitely leaves you wondering.

I think the skins are trying to take the high road with their policy but cap restrictions really complicate matters and this is what we end up with. I have faith but this offseason has been a bumpy road. I think we will come out alright though.

[bgforever]

Coles didn't like to hear that core Redskins stuff and he scuttled the deals while sitting home with a drink and slide rule. May not have been the graphic, but its clear he was intent on pissing Gibbs off, to get even. So he stymied just when he could, like girls do in high school at proms.

[NCskinfan]

Quoting yourself is bush-league, but I am going to do it here because I haven't found better words to describe how I feel about this offseason.

I'm beginning to hate free agency. We have never lost players that were loved by the fans like Pierce and Smoot. We may be getting a taste of our own medicine this year, and it tastes like s**t.

I don't blame Pierce and Smoot for leaving for money that seems close to us, and I don't blame our front office for being frugal and showing discipline. It is the system, and it was exciting and awesome for all of us Skins fans these last few years, and this years it . . . well . . . it just sucks.

[Jimreaper007]

Hey folks as much as we'd like to, we cannot keep everyone. Losing Smoot leaves a hole, but this is going to be a brand new TEAM. Once the Redskins experience some success as a team people will lose the get paid attitude and start realizing they are a part of something special.

I have a gut feeling that Smoot, Chump, Pierce and all he rest of the guys who jumped ship for the loot are going to regret leaving when the Skins break out like a virus next year. Lest we forget the San Diego Chargers came from absolutely no where to dominate last year. There is no reason to believe our Skins under Joe's leadership cannot do the same thing.

Can you imagine what the folks in San Diego were thinking after all that Eli Manning crap went down and everyone was predicting the worst in San Diego? San Diego could have folded like a cheap tent but they grabbed their sacks and became a team.


The fact is we just shed a lot of dead weight that wanted the cash more than being a part of the team. Smoot left for 10.8 Mill and we offered him 10.5. In that realm of money 300,000 is chump change so the fact is he did not want to remain a Redskin so I wish him well. Now we will plug the whole and move forward.

I have no doubt the Skins are going to be a much closer unit and a better team next season. They will play like they are broke and they will no longer beat themselves. Don't lose the faith...because contrary to popular belief there is addition by substraction.

[flave1969]

What has happened with Smoot and Pierce is sad but this is how the NFL is set up. If any of you think Fred Smoot is worth $18 million over the next three years I am afraid you are mistaken. He is a good player but a front loaded contract like this could only be done by someone like Minnesota, who have a whacking $33 million in cap room. It is sad to lose Fred but what can you do, there is no shame in not bending to salary cap pressure and if it were not for Coles I think Fred would have been resigned.

As for Antonio Pierce, well again I am sorry to see him go but again is he really worth the contract he was given. The SB was not extortionate but a $26 million contract on the strength of one season as a starter is high, too high.

I know Fred will do the business this year, but Pierce will not be surrounded by the same kind of talent this year so I wonder whether he will produce.

I wish them both well, they took their shot at getting the big bucks, we would all do the same. These guys could have no career in the time it takes to get injured, so I dont blame them.

This is a team sport and for once we are witnessing a team ethic here in D.C.

[openallnight]

First and foremost I've been a member for a while...but normally I just read what you guys have to say...But I have to break my silence....

As I know a lot of you do, I loved Fred Smoot. From the day he was drafted he has been my favorite player, and other than a bad 2nd season he has been a very good redskin. But today I feel let down.

Fred Smoot loved to be a Redskin. He loved the area, and he wanted to be here for his career. But now he is not. For a contract that seems affordable even in the 'Skins current situation.

I guess with my disapointment I have to question one thing. I love Joe Gibbs, but here goes nothing.

Since his hiring here he has talked about core redskins players. And at the end of the season I bet every one of us would have included Coles, Pierce and Smoot as three of our core Redskins. But where are they now???

Instead all three of them are gone, and I know Coles acted on his own...but man, I'd rather have kept theguys that have produced for us. Sure, I welcome Moss and Patten and the baltimore dude, but what about the guys that have proven themselves here??? For me its just disapointing... FRED SMOOT WAS A REDSKIN..HE WAS A HARD WORKING GUY THAT LOVED US. I HATE TO SECOND GUESS WHAT WE DO, BUT I HAVE TO QUESTION THIS MOVE.

I WISH YOU THE BEST FRED...I WOULD'VE SPENT 11 MIL, but im just a college student.

Sincerely, a heart broken Redskin fan
I've got to agree with you here SG1. I think people are losing sight of what it means to be a CORE guy. A CORE player should get paid a premium because the team wants you for continuity, leadership, comraderie and the intangibles you bring. It does NOT mean the team should TAKE ADVANTAGE of you and ask that you take a lessor contract to stay because well . . . we like you.
Obviously, there's teams out there that pay outrageous prices to snatch players off the market and you're lible to lose core guys. Actually, we've been the team notorious for doing this. And I hate that aspect of our team and the league. But, in this particular instance I don't think Minny went way overboard. We just couldn't compete because of the current financial situation we're in. We've made this bed and now we've got to lie in it.

[redwolf1218]

i said it before somewhere on here, but i think it sends the right message to the rest of the team when you dont pay Smoot more than Springs, nor Pierce more than Marcus Washington. That simple fact alone shows some sort of internal loyalty and stick-to-it-iveness.

[dukeuch]

Hey folks as much as we'd like to, we cannot keep everyone. Losing Smoot leaves a hole, but this is going to be a brand new TEAM. Once the Redskins experience some success as a team people will lose the get paid attitude and start realizing they are a part of something special.

I have a gut feeling that Smoot, Chump, Pierce and all he rest of the guys who jumped ship for the loot are going to regret leaving when the Skins break out like a virus next year. Lest we forget the San Diego Chargers came from absolutely no where to dominate last year. There is no reason to believe our Skins under Joe's leadership cannot do the same thing.

Can you imagine what the folks in San Diego were thinking after all that Eli Manning crap went down and everyone was predicting the worst in San Diego? San Diego could have folded like a cheap tent but they grabbed their sacks and became a team.


The fact is we just shed a lot of dead weight that wanted the cash more than being a part of the team. Smoot left for 10.8 Mill and we offered him 10.5. In that realm of money 300,000 is chump change so the fact is he did not want to remain a Redskin so I wish him well. Now we will plug the whole and move forward.

I have no doubt the Skins are going to be a much closer unit and a better team next season. They will play like they are broke and they will no longer beat themselves. Don't lose the faith...because contrary to popular belief there is addition by substraction.

I miss the days when I was as optimistic as you.

It seems to me that the reason we loose a bunch of FA's for a little more money is not because they "left for the loot", I think they jumped off of a sinking ship. Bottom line, during the Snyder years, we have made exactly no progress. Every year we make some grand moves which are going make the difference, and every year they do not make a difference. Most recenlty, Gibbs would solve the problem. I don't think anyone thought we would do any worse than .500. Before that, Coles, with his big-play ability was exactly what we needed, and a kick returner like Morton. Now we have lost two of our best players and our savior WR who will return to pro-bowl form now that he is out of D.C.

We can debate why the moves do not work, but at some point have to acknowledge that regardless of the reasons the franchise does not show improvement, some players would rather take more money to play elsewhere than remain on a team which for the a number of years has gone nowhere.

Do you really think that Bailey is missing the 'Skins, or that Smoot is going to find a worse organization in Minnesota, or that Pierce is going to find regret playing for NY?

Regarding all the money we saved, cap room we will eventually have, etc, why in the world does anyone here think we will not blow it as we have in the past under this FO?

I love the Redskins, but am just so ticked off.

[dj_stouty]

The Vikes probably gave him a lot in base salary in the first 2 or 3 years of the deal. They could afford it, we can't.

I agree 100%. They knew exactly how to create the contract so it was unaffordable to the Redskins.

This was alot more than just 500K...

[Jimreaper007]

I miss the days when I was as optimistic as you.

It seems to me that the reason we loose a bunch of FA's for a little more money is not because they "left for the loot", I think they jumped off of a sinking ship. Bottom line, during the Snyder years, we have made exactly no progress. Every year we make some grand moves which are going make the difference, and every year they do not make a difference. Most recenlty, Gibbs would solve the problem. I don't think anyone thought we would do any worse than .500. Before that, Coles, with his big-play ability was exactly what we needed, and a kick returner like Morton. Now we have lost two of our best players and our savior WR who will return to pro-bowl form now that he is out of D.C.

We can debate why the moves do not work, but at some point have to acknowledge that regardless of the reasons the franchise does not show improvement, some players would rather take more money to play elsewhere than remain on a team which for the a number of years has gone nowhere.

Do you really think that Bailey is missing the 'Skins, or that Smoot is going to find a worse organization in Minnesota, or that Pierce is going to find regret playing for NY?

Regarding all the money we saved, cap room we will eventually have, etc, why in the world does anyone here think we will not blow it as we have in the past under this FO?

I love the Redskins, but am just so ticked off.

I do not think these players left because it was a sinking ship, I think they left because the money is the bottom line to them. I knew for a fact that the Skins would have to go through a salary purge of sorts in order to give Gibbs a team of guys who play hard and are as much worried about the big pay-days as they are about perfecting their craft and being a part of a team.

Joe Gibbs worked all of his miracles with regular guys who could be taught, who were flexible and who sacrificed egos for the sake of something bigger than themselves. Our current team has less egos today and it actually makes us better IMO.

[CarMike]

For me, this comes down to one thing. NO WAY HELL DOES SMOOT DESERVE MORE MONEY THAN SPRINGS! Springs is our best CB on the team. Just because a players contract is up doesn't mean that the FO has to out bid another team. Smoot had a chance to come back, but he dragged his feet. He didn't want to stay here. Plain and simple. Get over it.

I have 52 other guys that I'll cheer for. Pierce and Smoot are yesturdays news to me now. They are no longer Redskins so I don't really care about either one.

[Jimreaper007]

For me, this comes down to one thing. NO WAY HELL DOES SMOOT DESERVE MORE MONEY THAN SPRINGS! Springs is our best CB on the team. Just because a players contract is up doesn't mean that the FO has to out bid another team. Smoot had a chance to come back, but he dragged his feet. He didn't want to stay here. Plain and simple. Get over it.

I have 52 other guys that I'll cheer for. Pierce and Smoot are yesturdays news to me now. They are no longer Redskins so I don't really care about either one.


Well Said...

I hope they do well with their teams except against us.

[CarMike]

I miss the days when I was as optimistic as you.

It seems to me that the reason we loose a bunch of FA's for a little more money is not because they "left for the loot", I think they jumped off of a sinking ship. Bottom line, during the Snyder years, we have made exactly no progress. Every year we make some grand moves which are going make the difference, and every year they do not make a difference. Most recenlty, Gibbs would solve the problem. I don't think anyone thought we would do any worse than .500. Before that, Coles, with his big-play ability was exactly what we needed, and a kick returner like Morton. Now we have lost two of our best players and our savior WR who will return to pro-bowl form now that he is out of D.C.

We can debate why the moves do not work, but at some point have to acknowledge that regardless of the reasons the franchise does not show improvement, some players would rather take more money to play elsewhere than remain on a team which for the a number of years has gone nowhere.

Do you really think that Bailey is missing the 'Skins, or that Smoot is going to find a worse organization in Minnesota, or that Pierce is going to find regret playing for NY?

Regarding all the money we saved, cap room we will eventually have, etc, why in the world does anyone here think we will not blow it as we have in the past under this FO?

I love the Redskins, but am just so ticked off.

I'm calling BS on some that.

Before Gibbs, yes I agree. Big name players who came here and didn't do squat.

Last year, the only signing Gibbs made was Brunell that turned out bad for us.

But this year, coach Gibbs is doing things his way.

I get so frustrated for people getting onto coach Gibbs after one year.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. We need to have some patience people. I know society these days have little patience for anything. But I'm going to give coach a couple of more years. You other guys can continue to bash Gibbs, Snyder, and the entire FO. But I've seen it first hand what Gibbs can do with a team. His team. With his kind of players. And I know without a doubt, he'll get the Redskins back there sooner, rather than later.

[PA Skins Girl]

All I know is, my stomach is churning right now with this whole Coles thing. The Coles deal basically handcuffed us from bringing back Smoot and Pierce. You can say they took a stand not to overpay them, but I'm not buying it. They knew they had to deal with Coles and that set the stage for everything else they were going to be able to do this offseason. I cant even express how pissed I am at Coles.

[smoak]

Skinsguy1 -

Post more often! I agree with you. I think we're all hurting in some respect with this offseason, but I take heart in that Gibbs had the big roster purge last year and now I expect the team will be run this way from now on.

Re: Smoot.

My wife and I met him at a signing and chatted with him for awhile (what a nice guy). I have an autographed football, she has a hat, and I was all set to buy his jersey b/c I just knew he was coming back. When I met him he talked about loving the team, the fans, the area and wanting to be a Redskin for life but like someone mentioned I think he got more annual money in the contract than we could offer. The signing bonus may have been close, but if the first three years weren't then... I guess he took the money. I can't blame him or the team but I agree it really stinks for us as fans. IMO as fans we have to trust the coaching staff and FO are doing what they feel is best for our team. We'll be ok I think and frankly I've never liked any of the "oooooo" chants whether it was Smoot or Bruce.... They all remind me of "Moose". YUCK!

[smoak]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. We need to have some patience people. I know society these days have little patience for anything. But I'm going to give coach a couple of more years. You other guys can continue to bash Gibbs, Snyder, and the entire FO. But I've seen it first hand what Gibbs can do with a team. His team. With his kind of players. And I know without a doubt, he'll get the Redskins back there sooner, rather than later.

Unfortunately CM we have a lot of what I call "microwave fans". they want everything done instantly and don't show patience. They boo the team at games when the slightest thing goes wrong. They quit at the first sign of adversity... I know winning cures all, but it should take winning to get us to support our team. If we do that FIRST it will contribute to the winning IMO.

And this is not directed at a specific person at all. Just a general frustration I have with Redskins fans. We're soft as butter on a Arizona sidewalk in August.

[akhhorus]

First and foremost I've been a member for a while...but normally I just read what you guys have to say...But I have to break my silence....

As I know a lot of you do, I loved Fred Smoot. From the day he was drafted he has been my favorite player, and other than a bad 2nd season he has been a very good redskin. But today I feel let down.

Fred Smoot loved to be a Redskin. He loved the area, and he wanted to be here for his career. But now he is not. For a contract that seems affordable even in the 'Skins current situation.

I guess with my disapointment I have to question one thing. I love Joe Gibbs, but here goes nothing.

Since his hiring here he has talked about core redskins players. And at the end of the season I bet every one of us would have included Coles, Pierce and Smoot as three of our core Redskins. But where are they now???

Instead all three of them are gone, and I know Coles acted on his own...but man, I'd rather have kept theguys that have produced for us. Sure, I welcome Moss and Patten and the baltimore dude, but what about the guys that have proven themselves here??? For me its just disapointing... FRED SMOOT WAS A REDSKIN..HE WAS A HARD WORKING GUY THAT LOVED US. I HATE TO SECOND GUESS WHAT WE DO, BUT I HAVE TO QUESTION THIS MOVE.

I WISH YOU THE BEST FRED...I WOULD'VE SPENT 11 MIL, but im just a college student.

Sincerely, a heart broken Redskin fan

I would agree with you but Smoot sold out for 800 thousand more.

[akhhorus]

All I know is, my stomach is churning right now with this whole Coles thing. The Coles deal basically handcuffed us from bringing back Smoot and Pierce. You can say they took a stand not to overpay them, but I'm not buying it. They knew they had to deal with Coles and that set the stage for everything else they were going to be able to do this offseason. I cant even express how pissed I am at Coles.

Smoot left for 800 thousand more. He did not want to be a skin. Coles is irrelevant to the Smoot situation.

[smoak]

Smoot left for 800 thousand more. He did not want to be a skin. Coles is irrelevant to the Smoot situation.

Have you seen the per year amounts of the contract (I don't feel like looking b/c it'll only make me sick). You yourself said it depends on not just the bonus, but the salary in the first few years of the deal. I'm guessing due to their cap situation, Minnesota front-loaded it?

[iamray]

In years gone by under Snyder, the 'skins would have been the ones plucking Pierce and Smoot from the free agent ranks as they did with Coles. People were looking at the 'skins as nothing more than a payday. While the Coles situation did put us in somewhat of a precarious cap situation, he clearly had to go. I find it admirable that Coach Joe is saying to the Washington's and Springs' that we value you to the point of not overpaying someone else at your position. If it were me, I would appreciate that kind of mind set and would be highly motivated next year to do whatever I had to do to get to the next level. I think between Wilds and Harris we'll be just fine and if Lemar Marshall does his homework, we'll be ok there as well. We have added playmakers to the offense, have shored up the center position, we have the number 9 pick and if Williams or Edwards isn't there we can get the best available player or trade down for extra picks. Don't be discouraged, people! We didn't lose Dick Butkus or Ronnie Lott - we lost Pierce and Smoot! Now take a deep breath and repeat after me: "Coach Gibbs knows what he's doing".

[lightskin]

Don't be discouraged, people! We didn't lose Dick Butkus or Ronnie Lott - we lost Pierce and Smoot! Now take a deep breath and repeat after me: "Coach Gibbs knows what he's doing".

:bsmile:

[SlingingSam]

i am not sure the deal he signed seemed like he is getting overpayed...

Who was better last year Smoot or Springs? I really like Smoot, however he is not worth more then we pay Springs. This is similar to comparing Pierce to Washington, Pierce is not worth more than Washington.

[PennSkinsFan]

I would agree with you but Smoot sold out for 800 thousand more.

The problem with the Smoot contract, from what I understand, is it is more fornt loaded, than what the Redskisn offered. If that is the case, and I was Smoot, I woudl have signed with Minny too. Folks you just never know when the career will end, so get the pocket book as full as you can, while you can.

We can be negative all we want, we can say we got out butts handed to us this year in FA, but is it not a point that we have been the leaders of FA for the past five year, we were the headline team for five years, we trumped other teams for five years, yet look where it has gotten us??? Gibbs is looking to a plan, whether it is a good plan or not will be decided udrign the seasona nd next year, but he says wer on a plan, and I trust that. That plan also includes staying successful for years, and with all the big signing, that means become frugal in terms of dollars for awhile. Like or not, many of you whined for a toned down off-season,a nd now that we got one, you whine again. I don't get it.

[PennSkinsFan]

Who was better last year Smoot or Springs? I really like Smoot, however he is not worth more then we pay Springs. This is similar to comparing Pierce to Washington, Pierce is not worth more than Washington.

Sammy this is THE PIONT many people are not seeing, they see only Smoots' eparture, but monetary wise, Smoot simply has not performed at the level to earn that kind of cash. He is a good CB, but he is not a premier CB and he shoudl nto be paid premier CB money. Same with Pierce. Pierce had ONE good season, before that, he could not break the starting lineup. Cap wise, it's a smart off-season we had, not tying into cap problem contracts later when we already have soo many cap problems to face in the future. As far as factroign Coles into this, after reading his concilatory marks in the Post, I still can not help but think of one word for Coles, Whiner!

[Patrick]

We've hit some tough times this year with the FA thing. Smoot was a player that a majority of the fans liked (including myself). BUT the Skins (as an organization) needed - HAD - to change their free spending ways. We need to build a team of solid players with a winning system. We still have more than enough of the "Superstar" players on this team to go around (maybe still too many).

Pierce - Smoot - Coles - ???? ........... unfortunate - YES ...............
BUT Bottom line - 2004 - we were still only a less than .500 team with them.

[wewantdallas]

I simply don't care at this point. I'm glad all this crap is over with and we can move ahead. I wish Smoot the best, I wish Pierce the best, and I wish Coles to be swallowed up by the earth.

Was Smoot a great Redskin? I think so. He was an inspirational player at times. But did he single-handedly bring us any winning seasons? No, and his departure won't single-handedly guarantee us a losing one.

I said the same thing when Davis left. Sure, he was great, but did all that "greatness" ever translate to playoffs? Maybe in '99, but that's it. We simply couldn't afford him. If we'd resigned him back then, just think of the cap problems we'd have now...

I'm ready for a change. I applaud Gibbs and the front office for standing firm this season. We've won the offseason Super Bowl for about five years running now, and what's it gotten us? Heartache and humiliation.

A "crap" offseason will translate into a kick-ass regular season, that's my prediction. Wait and see.

[akhhorus]

The problem with the Smoot contract, from what I understand, is it is more fornt loaded, than what the Redskisn offered. If that is the case, and I was Smoot, I woudl have signed with Minny too. Folks you just never know when the career will end, so get the pocket book as full as you can, while you can.

We can be negative all we want, we can say we got out butts handed to us this year in FA, but is it not a point that we have been the leaders of FA for the past five year, we were the headline team for five years, we trumped other teams for five years, yet look where it has gotten us??? Gibbs is looking to a plan, whether it is a good plan or not will be decided udrign the seasona nd next year, but he says wer on a plan, and I trust that. That plan also includes staying successful for years, and with all the big signing, that means become frugal in terms of dollars for awhile. Like or not, many of you whined for a toned down off-season,a nd now that we got one, you whine again. I don't get it.

This is what I really dont get at all. People here bitched and moaned about the free spending, and it stopped this year, and the same people are bitching and moaning about the lack of spending. Pick a horse people.

[sknz2856]

This is what I really dont get at all. People here bitched and moaned about the free spending, and it stopped this year, and the same people are bitching and moaning about the lack of spending. Pick a horse people.


AMEN!!!!

[RedskinsDave]

Smoot got considerably more money from Minn according to today's Post article. Regardless, the reason we could not sign Smoot or really anyone else is because of Brunell's contract and the Coles fiasco. Blame whoever signed those.

[MoeRedskins]

i read somewhere that the viking deal was front loaded a bit, would have paid him more up front in the first three years....salary he is going to see regardless...

my only questions were the skins offer the opportunity to match it?

There is no way that the skins could match a deal that was that heavy up front. Like all Skins deals, the one they offered was a backended contract to help provide salary cap help this year, but a restructure would most definately been in his future, just like it is in the future of all big money free agents we have. Later fred, remember your playing on turf now, so don't let you feet get caught on the carpet while keyshawn runs a slant.

[MoeRedskins]

This is what I really dont get at all. People here bitched and moaned about the free spending, and it stopped this year, and the same people are bitching and moaning about the lack of spending. Pick a horse people.

I have to disagree, the lack of free agent spending this year isn't due to a conservative approach, it is due to the fact that 20+% is locked up in guys who we don't want, so we can't offer it to guys that we do want. I have to say that the FO did botch this by not signing Pierce in december when he was suppose to have a deal in place, not accepting Samuel's January restructure that could have saved the skins a ton of money. Smoot was not the FO's fault. The made a good deal for him and he thought the grass green in Minnesota (where they play on turf). We have filled holes with solid FAs, and didn't unnessacary spend which is really good. But what I think people bitch about is that we didn't spend the money that we normally do on the inhouse guys that we should have spent the money on. It is hypocritical irony (if that is possible) that when we don't want to spend money it is on guys brought up in the organization.

[PennSkinsFan]

I have to disagree, the lack of free agent spending this year isn't due to a conservative approach, it is due to the fact that 20+% is locked up in guys who we don't want, so we can't offer it to guys that we do want. I have to say that the FO did botch this by not signing Pierce in december when he was suppose to have a deal in place, not accepting Samuel's January restructure that could have saved the skins a ton of money. Smoot was not the FO's fault. The made a good deal for him and he thought the grass green in Minnesota (where they play on turf). We have filled holes with solid FAs, and didn't unnessacary spend which is really good. But what I think people bitch about is that we didn't spend the money that we normally do on the inhouse guys that we should have spent the money on. It is hypocritical irony (if that is possible) that when we don't want to spend money it is on guys brought up in the organization.

I don't think so. I think it is more of a frugal approach by Gibbs. Gibbs stated long before Coles even became public that the original spending spree of last sweason was to sure up areas of need. This year would be more cost effective and targeted. We had one major weakness on offense, the Middle of the Line. Rabach was signed, Jansen returns, porblem fixed. As far as WR goes,Coles and Gardner may be good, but they were not getting the job done in this offense. Maybe Moss isn't at the very level of Coles, but did you all ever think he may fit what Gibbs wants to do on offense, better? Patten I would argue is better than Gardner, so I see Patten as an upgrade over Gardner.

As far as defense, well i am one of those guys you all are sick of hearing say, Pierce was made by the system ,and I say it because Pierce was made by he system, and i would not say it if i did not believe it, so I will continue to say Pierce was made by the system, and I only say it because Pierce was made by the system. :) H eis easily replacable by the younger, speedier, and bigger Clifton Smith. Pierce came out of no where FIT the System well and worked IN THE system well. I have no reason to believe Marshall or Smith or Khary Campbell won't do the same thing.

S moot was a tough loss, all NFL teams lose some guys they wish not to, but such is life in the 21st centruy NFL,a nd he is replacable, I believe Harris will do a great job, but I also think this will be addressed at the 9th overall pick, which is fine by me!

[allberts]

What makes anyone think that the old offer was still on the table? By all reports we couldnt even keep that offer out there because of the Coles fiasco. I have a feeling we pulled that deal out and were hoping the FA market would dry up on him.

[akhhorus]

What makes anyone think that the old offer was still on the table? By all reports we couldnt even keep that offer out there because of the Coles fiasco. I have a feeling we pulled that deal out and were hoping the FA market would dry up on him.

All the reports said that the skisn were about to pull their deal, ergo, it was still on the table.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

i think gibbs' idea of a core player, is someone who will sacrifice for the team. its difficult to find many players like that. coles didnt sacrifice his role for the team and pierce and smoot didnt sacrifice his money for the team. look at guys like thomas, ramsey, noble, wynn....they restructured or took paycuts for the good of the team. smoot and AP went out got the money they wanted and i cant blame them, but if they really and truly wanted to be core redskins, they couldve been, but it would have been for less money.

[whitskins]

When you start winning consistently players will start staying for less money than they could get elsewhere. We're turning this thing around but it's a slow process. There are no quick answers, all the journalists who are implying there are, are dead wrong. We need 53 guys who will buy in and sell out for this team. We're getting there.

[dukeuch]

I'm calling BS on some that.

Before Gibbs, yes I agree. Big name players who came here and didn't do squat.

Last year, the only signing Gibbs made was Brunell that turned out bad for us.

But this year, coach Gibbs is doing things his way.

I get so frustrated for people getting onto coach Gibbs after one year.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. We need to have some patience people. I know society these days have little patience for anything. But I'm going to give coach a couple of more years. You other guys can continue to bash Gibbs, Snyder, and the entire FO. But I've seen it first hand what Gibbs can do with a team. His team. With his kind of players. And I know without a doubt, he'll get the Redskins back there sooner, rather than later.

Don't get me wrong, I do not blame Gibbs for last season. I just can't say that he made us a better team, and the record shows that. Nor do I think Joe should go; I was as happy as anyone when it came out that he was our coach, and I agree that a coach should get at least a couple of years to show improvement.

However, as brilliant a coach Gibbs was in the past, and as dedicated a Redskin he was/is, he was out of football for ten years. I think it reamins to be seen if he can perform the way he did back then, and I think there is nothing wrong with wanting to see results before sayhing "he still has it".

My pessimistic point is that we are going throught the same thing this off-season that we have for the last five years, and that after 5 years of ownership by Snyder and five years or big spending, we are worse off (at least in terms of wins and losses) than before he took over.

[dukeuch]

I do not think these players left because it was a sinking ship, I think they left because the money is the bottom line to them. I knew for a fact that the Skins would have to go through a salary purge of sorts in order to give Gibbs a team of guys who play hard and are as much worried about the big pay-days as they are about perfecting their craft and being a part of a team.

Joe Gibbs worked all of his miracles with regular guys who could be taught, who were flexible and who sacrificed egos for the sake of something bigger than themselves. Our current team has less egos today and it actually makes us better IMO.

Well, five years of declining wins, despite the will to spend big $ to turn things around, signifies something. Based on record, there is no arguing that the team has declined for half a decade. I mean, it boggles my mind that we can't even reach .500 given all the $ we spent.

As far as Gibbs working miracles with "regular guys", let's not get all misty eyed and nostalgic. Gibbs was a fantastic coach, got the most out of his players, and came up with a great system, but to say the guys like Green, Manley, Riggins, Monk, were "regular guys"?

[Mcnamara44]

Everyone keeps talking about how Smoot lied and said he would stay if the Redskins offer were close. The signing bonuses were close but the Vikings offered higher base salaries in the first three years than the Redskins. He will be there at least three years and collect that salary. The only thing guaranteed in contracts are the signing bonuses. Nobody ever sees the end of the contract so the Vikings offered much more real money than the Skins.
I hope Joe knows what he is doing because we basically traded Coles, 9 Million Dollars in Cap Money, Antonio Pierce, and Smoot go for Moss

[akhhorus]

Everyone keeps talking about how Smoot lied and said he would stay if the Redskins offer were close. The signing bonuses were close but the Vikings offered higher base salaries in the first three years than the Redskins. He will be there at least three years and collect that salary. The only thing guaranteed in contracts are the signing bonuses. Nobody ever sees the end of the contract so the Vikings offered much more real money than the Skins.
I hope Joe knows what he is doing because we basically traded Coles, 9 Million Dollars in Cap Money, Antonio Pierce, and Smoot go for Moss

and a huge chunk of cap room next season.

[tuckahoeskin]

I wish Coles was that surfer in Redskin Rich's avatar.

:jetsuk:

[redwolf1218]

Everyone keeps talking about how Smoot lied and said he would stay if the Redskins offer were close. The signing bonuses were close but the Vikings offered higher base salaries in the first three years than the Redskins. He will be there at least three years and collect that salary. The only thing guaranteed in contracts are the signing bonuses. Nobody ever sees the end of the contract so the Vikings offered much more real money than the Skins.
I hope Joe knows what he is doing because we basically traded Coles, 9 Million Dollars in Cap Money, Antonio Pierce, and Smoot go for Moss
i know this, but i really dont miss them. Pierce was an undrafted special teamer buried in the depth chart until he got his shot, Smoot was not big and not fast, and Coles has a busted toe and a pisspoor attitude. The cap sucks now but will be fixed next year when we need it most. and Welcome.

[redskin_rich]

I wish Coles was that surfer in Redskin Rich's avatar.

:jetsuk:
:awesomewo