The Redskins are after Courtney Brown everything thread

[suppitty]

link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32265-2005Mar13.html)

The Washington Redskins intend to pursue Courtney Brown, the talented yet oft-injured defensive end who is expected to be released today by the Cleveland Browns, according to sources familiar with the situation.

According to reports, Cleveland has informed Brown, the No. 1 overall pick in the 2000 draft, that he will be released today, making him an unrestricted free agent, after he declined a substantial pay cut.

While a teammate of Redskins linebacker LaVar Arrington at Penn State, Brown broke the school record for career sacks. But he has finished his last four seasons on injured reserve.

According to sources, Brown believes that the Redskins would be a good fit partly because of Gregg Williams, the team's assistant head coach-defense, and defensive coordinator Greg Blache, who has a reputation for developing defensive linemen. Brown's Los Angeles-based agent, Marvin Demoff, also represents Williams.

Demoff, who once represented Coach Joe Gibbs, did not return calls yesterday. According to one source who has spoken to Brown, he will make free agent visits starting tomorrow and will leave all options open.

Last week, Gibbs indicated that Washington would monitor released players to fill remaining needs.

Last night, Vice President of Football Operations Vinny Cerrato declined to comment on Brown, noting the NFL's tampering rules regarding players under contract. But, Cerrato said, "anybody that comes across the wire, we will evaluate and investigate."

Although the Redskins are expected to keep their pursuit of free agents to a minimum, the club is seeking a pass rush specialist. And Brown, a 6-foot-4, 290-pound defensive end, would be a strong candidate. (Renaldo Wynn is Washington's left defensive end, but Williams is known for frequently rotating players.)

Last season, the Redskins had 40 sacks -- tied for second in the NFC -- while the defensive line performed surprisingly well for the league's third-ranked defense. But Washington's pass rush was largely generated by Williams sending his linebackers and cornerbacks on blitzes. (Only 14 of Washington's sacks were by defensive linemen, led by tackle Cornelius Griffin's six.)

Washington's chances of landing Brown are likely to come down to how much the club feels it can spend on a player who has missed 33 games over the past four seasons. Last year, in Week 2 at the Dallas Cowboys, Brown tore a Lisfranc ligament in his left foot and underwent season-ending surgery. In 47 games, Brown has 136 tackles, 17 sacks and 7 forced fumbles.

Brown was scheduled to receive a $2.5 million roster bonus tomorrow plus a base salary in 2005 of $.5.5 million. Brown reportedly rebuffed Cleveland's suggestion that he restructure to earn an average salary of $2 million. The offer likely will remain on the table, sources said, meaning that the Redskins must at least match it.

One benefit of losing cornerback Fred Smoot is that Washington suddenly has financial flexibility and is $2.1 million under the salary cap. (The Redskins will jump to about $4 million after an expected trade of wide receiver Rod Gardner for a draft pick.)

But the Redskins must determine the risk of signing a player whose NFL career has been riddled by ankle, elbow, knee and neck injuries: In 2001, Brown missed 11 games with knee and ankle injuries. In 2002, he suffered a knee injury and underwent microfracture surgery. In 2003, Brown tore his right biceps. And, before last season was cut short, Brown was forced to undergo arthroscopic surgery in February 2004.

Brown has earned $26 million in five NFL seasons. Waiving him will save Cleveland $5 million under the cap.

Arrington was chosen second overall in the 2000 draft, followed by left tackle Chris Samuels. If Brown were to join Washington, the Redskins would have the top three players from the 2000 class.

According to a club source, if Arrington had been selected No. 1 that year, the Redskins likely would have chosen Brown with one of the next two picks.

[joethefan]

Don't know about him..to many injuries.....if he comes, he'd better come cheap....

[portis2endzone]

IF he can come in and play a year like griffin. that would be awsome. if williams wants him then sure.

[redskin_rich]

If the Skins do try to get him, I hope it is with a CHEAP, incentive laden contract.

[PA Skins Girl]

You've got to be kidding.

[suppitty]

It would be a great move if he is cheap, a questionable move if he gets a bigger contract, and a horrible move if he gets a big bonus.

[Axegrinder]

He wouldn't be asked to be the savior here,as he was in Cleveland.
He could be in a rotation that would limit the wear and tear on his body.
This would be a good fit for him.
For us,that's a lot of injuries to his joints.

[redwolf1218]

Last season, the Redskins had 40 sacks -- tied for second in the NFC

i didnt realize that...

anyways, i'd love this signing, he's big like Wynn, should be able to stop the run. Lavar can provide the character reference.

[tbfoster1]

thank god cleveland took him first. i don't know if this is a wise idea to go after him

[ImmortalDragon]

If the Skins do try to get him, I hope it is with a CHEAP, incentive laden contract.

[tommahawk]

2 million a year is too much to risk on a player thats hurt as often as Brown.

[redwolf1218]

According to a club source, if Arrington had been selected No. 1 that year, the Redskins likely would have chosen Brown with one of the next two picks.

how many of yall were sitting there that day hoping they'd take brown so we could get lavar? i know i was...

[Ramsey2Moss]

I don't mind this signing, but if it's expensive then it's a big no-no.
A change of scenery could do alot for this guy...

[ConradCountry]

Brown would be a very solid pick up he will come very cheap and the risk to reward is very high.

[PA Skins Girl]

According to a club source, if Arrington had been selected No. 1 that year, the Redskins likely would have chosen Brown with one of the next two picks.

how many of yall were sitting there that day hoping they'd take brown so we could get lavar? i know i was...
At the time, I didnt know who would be the better choice. Now, we should know better. If the Skins do this, it will be the most criticized move of the Dan Snyder era. Please, Nunyo, be wrong on this.

[redwolf1218]

He wouldn't be asked to be the savior here,as he was in Cleveland.
He could be in a rotation that would limit the wear and tear on his body.
This would be a good fit for him.
For us,that's a lot of injuries to his joints.
if he's cheap enough, he could be a backup to wynn and daniels. if he's healthy, he could start and wynn could move to backup.

[greatest2]

as it has been said before, he better come cheap.. somehow i don't think we get him...cheap is between 1-1.5 million a year, with UNLIKELY based incentives (Difference is these don't count against the cap, like Mark's restructure.).. go after him yes, hard yes, be smart as we were with smoot, Rabech (Spelling), pierce, Patten...etc..
don't forget we have the 9 pick..we can trade down and get a de in the draft..and if williams is great with d-line like the article say's, we can have a home grown stud like Peppers, anyway i am just restating what has been said...
cheap yes, not pass

[whitskins]

Brown would be a very solid pick up he will come very cheap and the risk to reward is very high.

Definitely. Low risk, high reward. Why not?

[PA Skins Girl]

What to you guys mean, low risk? The guy has finished the last 4 seasons on IR.

[BandWagon]

Time to send out the Bat, eh, I mean Akh Signal!

Ok to match or slightly better a $2mil offer on the table with the Browns...what's the cap implications and what are the different ways the contract could be structured so it would make sense?

[whitskins]

What to you guys mean, low risk? The guy has finished the last 4 seasons on IR.

B/c his contract would likely be very cheap. With our current cap situation we can only take on cheap contracts so it seems easy to assume he would be very affordable.

[akhhorus]

It will be funny if GW makes him into a stud DE. If he stays healthy, he's a productive player. And he'll make Lavar happy by being around. Keep it cheap, but a good move in the Akh Book.

[tommahawk]

Brown reportedly rebuffed Cleveland's suggestion that he restructure to earn an average salary of $2 million. The offer likely will remain on the table, sources said, meaning that the Redskins must at least match it.

He is injured too often to deserve this kind of money.
I would pass on this.

[akhhorus]

A fair contract for him would be:
3 years-4 million+1 million bonus. PLus numerous performance bonuses--if he plays more than 45 games in that 3 years and has 20 sacks--then he earns a extra year at 4 million.

[redwolf1218]

he'll come here for cheap if this is the situation he wants to be in. he's already banked enough money for himself, his family, his future generations, and everyone he knows.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

how many of yall were sitting there that day hoping they'd take brown so we could get lavar? i know i was...
me too....i fell in love with the idea of drafting lavar after "the leap". :)

this is very interesting....i just hope that he comes here CHEAP or i'll be pissed. i wonder what lavar thinks about this idea. im sure if he has confidence in brown like portis does in his fellow alumni, he'll be doing some recruiting for the FO.

[PA Skins Girl]

Give me a break. This is the guy they've been waiting to be released? I thought they had learned from their mistakes of the past. I can usually defend the front office but I can not defend this move. Sorry. Hope I'm wrong.

[redwolf1218]

me too....i fell in love with the idea of drafting lavar after "the leap". :)

this is very interesting....i just hope that he comes here CHEAP or i'll be pissed. i wonder what lavar thinks about this idea. im sure if he has confidence in brown like portis does in his fellow alumni, he'll be doing some recruiting for the FO.
well i said earlier, they have a resident character reference in Lavar...and if they are interested, then they must know he's a good character guy. he's young and he doesnt have to play every down.

[akhhorus]

Give me a break. This is the guy they've been waiting to be released? I thought they had learned from their mistakes of the past. I can usually defend the front office but I can not defend this move. Sorry. Hope I'm wrong.

If they get him cheap, whats the problem? They guy is still a physical talent, he just needs motivation. GW has done extremely well will maximizing talent.

[LATrueRedskin]

Time to send out the Bat, eh, I mean Akh Signal!

Ok to match or slightly better a $2mil offer on the table with the Browns...what's the cap implications and what are the different ways the contract could be structured so it would make sense?

The bat signal is mine.......

I don't know how Brown can command a big contract. He won't get anything else but a small contract. He already milked the Browns for everything he can get. I wouldn't mind this at all for cheap. He's not coming in to be THE savior on our Dline. He's there to fight for a spot on the roster. And if he shows up and dominates like he was expected to, we got a steal on our hands.

[guinness4health]

one upside if we signed c. brown would be that MAYBE just MAYBE.....


this would be the end of councilman threads...about getting a freakin' defensive end....

[redwolf1218]

one upside if we signed c. brown would be that MAYBE just MAYBE.....


COUNCILMAN WILL SHUT UP!!!!! about getting a freakin' defensive end....
no way, he has to have a double digit sack season like Lavar to really scare people. :rolleyes:

[skinsfan36]

i think we should sign him i mean he will be a good fit in our defense and could breakout under williams coaching

[pickwick]

We get C. Brown and VAR can feel young again. They played very well together in college, and that could refresh two guys that have had basically a season off.

[akhhorus]

one upside if we signed c. brown would be that MAYBE just MAYBE.....


this would be the end of councilman threads...about getting a freakin' defensive end....

I dont think that Jesus, Buddha, Allah and L Ron Hubbard can do that...

[danny's stogie]

no way, he has to have a double digit sack season like Lavar to really scare people. :rolleyes:

you never know guys...once we get that DE he might move on to another position. Guys, we really need that stud long-snapper. Just look at the trend...every SB winning team has one. And it'll just continue like that until we're exhausted all positions and then he wants a new water boy.

[BandWagon]

OMG...just had a scary thought...remember the Fab 5 at Michigan...boy I hope were not trying to do that with Miami and Penn State...sheesh

:kidding:

[swheeler]

I'm very skeptical of him staying healthy. Also, anyone have any idea if the injuries have had permanent effects on his performance?

I'm very undecided on this one, but I'll trust the coaches...

[akhhorus]

you never know guys...once we get that DE he might move on to another position. Guys, we really need that stud long-snapper. Just look at the trend...every SB winning team has one. And it'll just continue like that until we're exhausted all positions and then he wants a new water boy.

Im expecting his thread on the concession stands anyday now...

[silverspring]

i am not totally against this but even if he is cheap if the guy constantly hurts himself it is still a huge waste of time developing a player that won't be there. I would rather invest time into potential longterm solutions then get someone that could play a couple games and then get injured.
But if the guy could stay healthy he would be a steal. It suprises me that they would take a risk like this after the experience with barrow last year.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

one upside if we signed c. brown would be that MAYBE just MAYBE.....


this would be the end of councilman threads...about getting a freakin' defensive end....
scratch that. WE didnt draft him....:rolleyes:

[danny's stogie]

I'm very skeptical of him staying healthy. Also, anyone have any idea if the injuries have had permanent effects on his performance?

I'm very undecided on this one, but I'll trust the coaches...

agreed, this is one where I have to trust the guys who've watched countless hours of film.

[BIGSEF3]

please excuse my ignorance, but i didnt keep up with the draft before 2002.

how did we pick both arrington AND samuels as the #2 and #3 overall picks in 2000? i'm assuming we had one of those picks b/c we were either the 2nd or 3rd worst team in the NFL in 1999. how did we get the other?

[PA Skins Girl]

If they get him cheap, whats the problem? They guy is still a physical talent, he just needs motivation. GW has done extremely well will maximizing talent.
The problem is the guy cant stay healthy. One of the biggest factors in the success or failure of a team is the injuries that happen during the year. Most of them can not be prevented or predicted. But a guy that has been injured more than he has been healthy is a HIGH risk. I dont care how cheap he is, he's not as cheap as him NOT being on the team.

Oh man, I can just see the headlines now.

[swheeler]

you never know guys...once we get that DE he might move on to another position. Guys, we really need that stud long-snapper. Just look at the trend...every SB winning team has one. And it'll just continue like that until we're exhausted all positions and then he wants a new water boy.

"You guys just DON'T GET IT!!! We had a good team, we won the superbowl, but it wsn't a GREAT team because every GREAT team has to have an all-star concessions staff. Don't believe me? Watch what happens next season if we don't upgrade."

:D

[LATrueRedskin]

please excuse my ignorance, but i didnt keep up with the draft before 2002.

how did we pick both arrington AND samuels as the #2 and #3 overall picks in 2000? i'm assuming we had one of those picks b/c we were either the 2nd or 3rd worst team in the NFL in 1999. how did we get the other?

Weren't we in the playoffs in 99?

[redwolf1218]

please excuse my ignorance, but i didnt keep up with the draft before 2002.

how did we pick both arrington AND samuels as the #2 and #3 overall picks in 2000? i'm assuming we had one of those picks b/c we were either the 2nd or 3rd worst team in the NFL in 1999. how did we get the other?
it was part of the Mike Ditka Champ Bailey deal, i think. or was it Sean Gilbert?

[akhhorus]

The problem is the guy cant stay healthy. One of the biggest factors in the success or failure of a team is the injuries that happen during the year. Most of them can not be prevented or predicted. But a guy that has been injured more than he has been healthy is a HIGH risk. I dont care how cheap he is, he's not as cheap as him NOT being on the team.

Oh man, I can just see the headlines now.

You are right. But would you agree that he can be effective, especially in the GW system if he's healthy. And the knock on Springs was similar when the Skins got him.

[Jero]

I think this would be a mistake, unless we can get him for dirt, dirt cheap. I mean, what exactly has he done with the Browns to make anybody think that he'll become a Pro-Bowler, or even a major influence, on our defense? He can't stay healthy for an extended period of time w/Cleveland, what makes anybody think he'll stay healthy here?

[akhhorus]

please excuse my ignorance, but i didnt keep up with the draft before 2002.

how did we pick both arrington AND samuels as the #2 and #3 overall picks in 2000? i'm assuming we had one of those picks b/c we were either the 2nd or 3rd worst team in the NFL in 1999. how did we get the other?

We had three first rounder:
Ours(which was in the twenties)
Carolina(mid first)
New Orleans(#2)

we dealt our two first and another pick to San Fran for the #3. San Fran got Julian Peterson and Ahmad Plummer with those two picks.

[CNYSkinFan]

one upside if we signed c. brown would be that MAYBE just MAYBE.....


this would be the end of councilman threads...about getting a freakin' defensive end....

Wait ...I am channelling Councilman now:

"where is the threat of the pass rush? He has never produced double digit sack figures. Without the threat of a rush then there can not be a rush."

Oooh that was weird. Never going to do that again.

[redskin_rich]

it was part of the Mike Ditka Champ Bailey deal, i think. or was it Sean Gilbert?
Both. We actually had three 1st rd picks includind #2 overall, the other two were packaged to get #3 overall.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

it was part of the Mike Ditka Champ Bailey deal, i think. or was it Sean Gilbert?
nevermind.

[PA Skins Girl]

You are right. But would you agree that he can be effective, especially in the GW system if he's healthy. And the knock on Springs was similar when the Skins got him.
Absolutely, if he is healthy.
Springs, I thought got a bad rap about being injury-prone. He missed 13 games in 6 seasons before last year. Brown has missed 33 in the last 4 seasons.

[LATrueRedskin]

Both. We actually had three 1st rd picks includind #2 overall, the other two were packaged to get #3 overall.

That sounds about right.

[akhhorus]

Wait ...I am channelling Councilman now:

"where is the threat of the pass rush? He has never produced double digit sack figures. Without the threat of a rush then there can not be a rush."

Oooh that was weird. Never going to do that again.

Im channeling him:

"I put bologna in my pants...now I Dance!"
(interpretive dance follows)
"Snyder[dance move].....Sign a DE[Dance move]...Every Super Bowl Champion has had 13 Dlinemen with 10 or more sacks[dance move and collapses]"

[CNYSkinFan]

Ok Brown has some health issues, but so does Daniels. Maybe they could be a decent combo on the right side or we can rotate him in with Wynn. This is only a good move if we get him for vet minimum or close to it. I like his potential but in no way should this be a big contract. At most there should be minimum slaries with production bonus'.

[akhhorus]

Ok Brown has some health issues, but so does Daniels. Maybe they could be a decent combo on the right side or we can rotate him in with Wynn. This is only a good move if we get him for vet minimum or close to it. I like his potential but in no way should this be a big contract. At most there should be minimum slaries with production bonus'.

To say Daniels has health problems is an understatement--one leg is longer than the other. Thats a problem for a football player.

[redwolf1218]

Ok Brown has some health issues, but so does Daniels. Maybe they could be a decent combo on the right side or we can rotate him in with Wynn. This is only a good move if we get him for vet minimum or close to it. I like his potential but in no way should this be a big contract. At most there should be minimum slaries with production bonus'.
well it has been speculated that the Browns offer remains on the table and would have to be matched for him to leave, but i doubt that. i've been to Cleveland and i'd gladly move to northern VA for half the money.

[PA Skins Girl]

I dont think he'll be seeking a minimum vet deal. He'll get a signing bonus, probably in the $3 million range.

[CNYSkinFan]

To say Daniels has health problems is an understatement--one leg is longer than the other. Thats a problem for a football player.

But he was still productive when healthy. I say take the risk....again only if it is cheap.

[ShaggySkins]

If we can get Brown I think it would be a solid pickup. I don't think he'll cost us a lot and he has the potential to be the pass rushing DE that we need. He went into a sitituation in Cleveland where he was the first ever pick for the new franchise in a football fanatic area. He had too much pressure on him there, a change of scenary I think would do wonders for him. He can come in here not be expected to dominate and play with a good friend in Lavar.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

Wait ...I am channelling Councilman now:

"where is the threat of the pass rush? He has never produced double digit sack figures. Without the threat of a rush then there can not be a rush."

Oooh that was weird. Never going to do that again.
that sounds very john maddenish....lol....

i just thought about something....if the skins were to sign brown, we'd have the top 3 picks from the 2000 draft....weird....

[akhhorus]

I dont think he'll be seeking a minimum vet deal. He'll get a signing bonus, probably in the $3 million range.

He could get that big a bonus, if he takes the vet's minimum for base salary.

[BtwnDaTackles]

On one hand you've got an athlete with durability issues, but you alos have an young end with potential a far as the eye can see.....Cleavland doesnt run nealy a more position aclamamted defence as we do .....greg will make this kid do his thing.......SNATCH HIM!!!!!!!

[redskin_rich]

It's worth it for the right price. It's probably less of a gamble than drafting a DE from this year's class.

[Houskin3]

I can't say much about who we drafted, I was wishing we would go with LaVar and Peter Warrick :rolleyes:

That said, if we can pick him up for $2M a year and a small (<$4M) signing bonus I would be for it. We need to get Gardner and Morton off the books ASAP though.

[SkinsASchamps]

This is so contridictory to what we have been doing this whole off season but... it is very interesting.

[PA Skins Girl]

Well, I can see I'm one of the only ones here who is against this. So, I'm going to bed. Maybe I'll see it differently in the morning. Night all.

[akhhorus]

I can't say much about who we drafted, I was wishing we would go with LaVar and Peter Warrick :rolleyes:

That said, if we can pick him up for $2M a year and a small (<$4M) signing bonus I would be for it. We need to get Gardner and Morton off the books ASAP though.

Not to play the counter-factual game, but imagine if we took with the 3 firsts:
-Darren Howard
-Chad Clifton
-Tom Brady

[akhhorus]

Well, I can see I'm one of the only ones here who is against this. So, I'm going to bed. Maybe I'll see it differently in the morning. Night all.

Thats the my favorite time to argue......You against the horde....i love it!

[redwolf1218]

Thats the my favorite time to argue......You against the horde....i love it!
you like to argue? no way!

[tommahawk]

Washington's chances of landing Brown are likely to come down to how much the club feels it can spend on a player who has missed 33 games over the past four seasons. Last year, in Week 2 at the Dallas Cowboys, Brown tore a Lisfranc ligament in his left foot and underwent season-ending surgery. In 47 games, Brown has 136 tackles, 17 sacks and 7 forced fumbles.

He has played in 31 out of 64 games.
In the games he has played he has an avg. of 45 tkls, 5.5 sacks, and 2 forced fumbles a year.
So for a player with avg stats who will miss half the season that is a lot of money to spend.

[redwolf1218]

He has played in 31 out of 64 games.
In the games he has played he has an avg. of 45 tkls, 5.5 sacks, and 2 forced fumbles a year.
So for a player with avg stats who will miss half the season that is a lot of money to spend.
i seriously doubt we will have to match their offer to get him.

[bishop56]

Trade Rod for him straight up! Done deal!

[bishop56]

Alright you Browns are good negotiators we'll throw in Morton and Canidate(but we have to see if hes got work at Taco Bell this weekend first. Don't laugh he is training to be an assistant Mgr) :lol1:

[sdredskinsfan]

Don't know about him..to many injuries.....if he comes, he'd better come cheap....

I always worry about injuries involving torn muscles - a torn triceps in this case. It makes me think that he may have used either steroids or some harmful supplement. But, I also think that if he can come relatively cheap, including the possibility of not having too much money guaranteed should he be offered a couple of million per year, for example, and G. Williams likes him, then we should go for it. Then, I think, this would probably rule out a DE being taken in the first round. But, ya never know. The staff really has me guessing. Which is a good thing.

[bgforever]

I always worry about injuries involving torn muscles - a torn triceps in this case. It makes me think that he may have used either steroids or some harmful supplement. But, I also think that if he can come relatively cheap, including the possibility of not having too much money guaranteed should he be offered a couple of million per year, for example, and G. Williams likes him, then we should go for it. Then, I think, this would probably rule out a DE being taken in the first round. But, ya never know. The staff really has me guessing. Which is a good thing.

By all means, he's worth at least a look, but should the negotiations get sticky, discontinue. First of all, lets's compare "where he should be" as a former #1, recovered from his injuries, with Griffin, our best defensive lineman last year. Brown should have exceeded that pace, but has not.

Next his contract is Over with the Browns, the minute he hits our camp, signed and that should be DRAMATICALLY reduced from what he got when drafted as the NFL's #1 pick. Right now, players like Salave'a are out doing him, so his equivalent is in the 4th round range. He is likely to sign somewhere else, because we can't afford him, with his history of extremely long abscences and what the team needs to stay on course for. It looks to me that LaVar may have to interevene, financially, if we are to be able to pursue him and LaVar REALLY does have the ability to do that.

We are better, otherwise to seek a DE after June 1, when there will be more of the good DE's let go by teams loaded with good D linemen, as far as FA goes. It is more likely that another team, far more needy (having virtually no defense pressure at DE also), will sign him, because they have the money.

Personally, I would love to see him in "rotation" because he'd be fresh, and so would Wynn (the eldest now at DE) and Daniels (coming off injuries). That way we could also work more of Evans in the mix to succeed Wynn. However, the numbers and where the team is business wise, with Moss, RFA,ERFA and draft picks, it still is the same song. True we can let almost all of the RFA and ERFA go, but we must maintain a nucleus of ST players for the "whole" game. We must be careful not load up on players with ? marks and most likely needing still big contracts. One more type of move like Barrow, Daniels, Brunell could wipe out about 2 or 3 "future" good players already on tap.

[redwolf1218]

i'd say get him if the price is right.

[PyroGenic]

if he's cheap enough, he could be a backup to wynn and daniels. if he's healthy, he could start and wynn could move to backup.

i dunno why everybody is saying "if he's cheap"... he's gonna be more than 2 million because that's what the browns are offering him right now.

[Warrior 007]

Gibbs already stated he doesn't like the uncertainty of the draft. So in his eyes C. Brown looks better than any of the top draft picks at DE. There defense proved last year that they don't need a top DE to get sacks. And signing C. Brown would be cheaper than a 1rd draft pick whose future is uncertain also.

The redskins eyes for the draft are clearly on Mike Williams and Bryon Edwards.

:jetsuk:

[warpaint]

seems everything in football is a gamble when it comes to the draft and keeping players healthy. you never know when someone can tear the acl and are done for the year. if he is healthy now and the price is right , lets go for it.
if he hadnt had injury problems we wouldnt even be talking about this , no way could we sign him with the cap issues being what they are. in that we are at least looking at him, maybe makes me think that as of right now,maybe we are thinking d.e. in the draft , if we sign him then could go either c.b. w.r.
t.e. in the draft.

[PA Skins Girl]

My guess is, its already a done deal (no tampering, of course.) And his new contract will be around, 4 years, $12 million, with $3-$4 million signing bonus. And we will be laughed at, league wide, once again.

[Redskinmayhem]

Don't know about him..to many injuries.....if he comes, he'd better come cheap....

yup, I don't want him for more than the vet min.

[redwolf1218]

i dunno why everybody is saying "if he's cheap"... he's gonna be more than 2 million because that's what the browns are offering him right now.
because i'm not sure you'd have to beat the brown's offer to get him.

[joethefan]

Last season, the Redskins had 40 sacks -- tied for second in the NFC

i didnt realize that...



Maybe someone can help coucilmen realize that!!

[tommahawk]

The only way Brown comes here is if he wants to be here and nowhere else.
Other teams will offer him more money than us.

[PA Skins Girl]

The only way Brown comes here is if he wants to be here and nowhere else.
Other teams will offer him more money than us.
I hope you're right.

[chrisbcbu]

My guess is, its already a done deal (no tampering, of course.) And his new contract will be around, 4 years, $12 million, with $3-$4 million signing bonus. And we will be laughed at, league wide, once again.

We are always laughed at, so this will be no different. If he is not too expensive then i wouldnt mind him signing at all.

Gibbs already stated that he didnt want to draft for need.

[PennSkinsFan]

We are always laughed at, so this will be no different. If he is not too expensive then i wouldnt mind him signing at all.

Gibbs already stated that he didnt want to draft for need.

I woudl sign him just in case he performs like Daryl Gardener did. Sign him to a one year, incentive laden deal. If Courtney wants to get his career back on track, then a one year deal woudl be motivation. If it doesn't work out, we are no worse off, because we still have Evans, Daniels, and Wynn.

[Jimreaper007]

I think this is a good move. If Gibbs/Williams are going after him they must have seen something in the film/tape that gave them the feeling he could help us.

If Williams is interested...Enough Said

[Skinzaholic]

I cant imagine this guy falling into our hands that easily. If we all know what has been discussed here then you know that other teams know it as well and are just as willing to take the gamble should the price be right. Odds are he goes somewhere else for more money.

[Redskinfan28]

He will not come cheap and he will not sign an incentive laden contract. If we want him, it will cost AT LEAST 2 million per year, probably alot more. Is the risk worth the reward? Hopefully Gregg Williams will know.

[CNYSkinFan]

i dunno why everybody is saying "if he's cheap"... he's gonna be more than 2 million because that's what the browns are offering him right now.

What the browns are offering him and what the market may bear is another thing. Brown may be thinking play a one year contract for vet minimum and get a big day ala Gardner. Or he may think the market ios out there for 2 million and be sadly mistaken. Cleveland has the cap space to afford 2 million, they alos don't want to throw away their former #1.

[Jimreaper007]

How much would we pay a rookie in the draft who won't make that big a difference?

I'd rather have Brown with an incentive laden deal than a clueless rookie that will not provide anything this year. If Williams can get his hands on Brown like he did Griffin then there is that dominant DE everyone wanted.

[tommahawk]

How much would we pay a rookie in the draft who won't make that big a difference?

I'd rather have Brown with an incentive laden deal than a clueless rookie that will not provide anything this year. If Williams can get his hands on Brown like he did Griffin then there is that dominant DE everyone wanted.

I would rather have a rookie that doesn't have a history of being injured 50% of the time.

[Redskinmayhem]

I woudl sign him just in case he performs like Daryl Gardener did. Sign him to a one year, incentive laden deal. If Courtney wants to get his career back on track, then a one year deal woudl be motivation. If it doesn't work out, we are no worse off, because we still have Evans, Daniels, and Wynn.


And Warner too. Warner is the wild card here. If he can be more of an every down pass rusher, he'll be very valuable to us.

[PA Skins Girl]

I would rather have a rookie that doesn't have a history of being injured 50% of the time.
I'm with ya.

[Redskinfan28]

How much would we pay a rookie in the draft who won't make that big a difference?

I'd rather have Brown with an incentive laden deal than a clueless rookie that will not provide anything this year. If Williams can get his hands on Brown like he did Griffin then there is that dominant DE everyone wanted.

He's not going to sign an incentive laden contract. There will be plenty of teams seeking his services.

If the Redskins sign him, it will be for a substantial contract. He not going to cut us any deals.

[JJUICE86]

You can't be serious. If he gets anymore than the league minimum its highway robbery. As if the redskins aren't joked around the league wenough for making dumb signings. Lets just draft cody and be done with it.

[Dept_of_Defense]

Ii don't know about all this. Honestly, I've never even heard of this guy. Maybe if he actually played more than he's injured....
________
Expressive (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/Expressive/)

[redwolf1218]

IF he doesnt cost too much (define too much...i know i cant, except to say "not more than Phillip Daniels") and IF he stays healthy...these are 2 huge IF's, making this a very IFFY situation (and i dont mean Ohalete).

[Redskinmayhem]

IF he doesnt cost too much (define too much...i know i cant, except to say "not more than Phillip Daniels") and IF he stays healthy...these are 2 huge IF's, making this a very IFFY situation (and i dont mean Ohalete).

I agree, I wouldn't give him a bigger contract than what Daniels got.

[Redskin4Life]

I think we'll sign Brown pretty easily. I'm almost absolutely sure he doesn't want to go back to Cleveland b/c he'll be playing LB instead of DE there. I would think that he wanted to play that position on if he got the full 7 mill he was expected to get. I think if we offer him to a 3 yr 12 mill contract 5 mil signing w/incentives (cheap first two years, heavy last year), he'll take it. And I'll welcome our pass rush specialist. Why else would we have reworked Brunell's contract?!?!?

[SkinsASchamps]

Trade Rod for him straight up! Done deal!

we would inherit his huge contract... and wont he be free soon.

edit: my computer is all messed up. sorry

[Redskin4Life]

And about the injuries, who else is on the Browns D on in the front seven that would need to be doubled!??!? Exactly... Brown saw all the attention, which lead to his wearing down, injury filled years. But if he was on our team, no team could afford to double Courtney... Griffin, Springs, LaVar or Bowen would just fly in for the sack.

[chrisbcbu]

But remember its only about the "threat of a pass rush" that counts.

[Redskinfan28]

I agree, I wouldn't give him a bigger contract than what Daniels got.

I agree, although I'm not sure that will be enough.

[ryflan47]

hey if williams gives gibbs the green light then i trust williams's desicion

[skins4life24]

But remember its only about the "threat of a pass rush" that counts.
yeah but after 5 weeks when he is injured or not playing up to potential where is the threat?

[redskins.uk]

hey if williams gives gibbs the green light then i trust williams's desicion

I agree. Even with all the nagging doubts re his injuries, salary etc. Let trust GW. If Brown is acquired and returns to full health we will have a good front four including rotation.

[Jimreaper007]

This could be true or it could be the post floating a rumor to make the Redskins respond...

If it is true and the Redskins are interested then Williams must have seen something worthy of interest.

[candeeman]

This could be true or it could be the post floating a rumor to make the Redskins respond...

If it is true and the Redskins are interested then Williams must have seen something worthy of interest.
Agreed, could be another Rolle type. Either way if they are interested I would only agree to incentive based contract.

[Skinz4lyfe]

Without reading the previous posts, I'll go on record to say that I don't have a problem w/us going after him. I totally trust the FO with our new "fiscal policy". I'm sure we'd give him a deal similar to what we gave D. Gardner a few years ago. That worked out pretty well for us. He would be nice to have for depth on our D-line.

[ryflan47]

yeah, the only problems with CB is his nagging injurys and possibly the salary he wants.. but if we sign him and daniels plays strong next year, our defense has an honest chance to become the number 1 D

[PA Skins Girl]

The only way this make sense to me is if we give him a signing bonus of 25k or less. That way, regardless of his salary, he counts only the vet minimum against the cap.

[bwparker]

We should sign him to an hourly rate. That way we don't have to pay if he doesn't play....

[akhhorus]

We should sign him to an hourly rate. That way we don't have to pay if he doesn't play....

Somewhat similar, but I suspect the skins will tie his salary to how many games he plays.

[ryflan47]

We should sign him to an hourly rate. That way we don't have to pay if he doesn't play....
ha.. wouldn't that be nice.. i'd play for that kinda money, but then again i wouldnt be earning any money

[akhhorus]

He's not going to sign an incentive laden contract. There will be plenty of teams seeking his services.

If the Redskins sign him, it will be for a substantial contract. He not going to cut us any deals.

I dont see any team giving him a substantial contract unless they are desperate for DE help and have a ton of cap room.


And until he signs with the Skins, this could be like the Samari Rolle story.

[War Hogg]

This has gotta be a joke...

missed 33 games in 4 seaons....come on now, id rather see what Bruce Smith has been up to....

[BleedingB&G]

Great! Another potential pro-bowler who will sit on the sidelines with his buddies Barrow and Daniels listed as doubtful for 14 games....have we not learned our lesson? If he gets more than the vet minimum+incentives, it would be a rip off!

[ryflan47]

yes, but barrow should be fine for the start of the season and daniels as well.. i think gregg williams is going to have himself a nice season.

[RedskinsVision]

he's a great talent.... at getting injured. some guys have all the physical skills but not the durability to match. we're not desparate to take on such a risk. i'm fine with Daniels and Wynn starting and G. Williams sending N. Clemons, Lavar, Marcus and the cheerleaders coming off the edge on passing downs.

[inevitable]

Yes, because Daniels has proven to be an Ironman for us and didn't sit out almost every game last year :rolleyes:

[RedskinsVision]

Yes, because Daniels has proven to be an Ironman for us and didn't sit out almost every game last year :rolleyes:

he might've missed 11 games last year but that's still less then Brown's 14 missed games. Brown's missed 33 of 80 games in his career while Daniels have missed 20 games out of 144 games. plus Brown's going to demand much much more money.

[lakeskin]

Do we really need another high priced defensive end who will mis a majority of games with injuries? Didnt wynn miss alot of games his first year with us? Then Daniels. And if we sign Brown then --just going by his past history and not our string of unfortunate luck-- he will get injured and miss a signifigant amount of time. No thanks.

[CNYSkinFan]

I would rather have a rookie that doesn't have a history of being injured 50% of the time.

Well Rookie's don't have a history of anything in the NFL. Many times injuries do not arrive until they face the gruelling week to week competition.

Right now I don't want to use a high draft pick on a DE we have too many other needs. So that means take a gamble on Brown or a gamble on a 6th or 7th round draft pick or UFA. I would rather gamble on Brown. For the right price.

[colkurtz]

The DE FA market is hugely over-priced. We pay Wynn, a below average DE, a million dollars a sack. The guy averages 2.5 sacks a season. Daniels is an average DE, who we over-paid for.

If we bring in C. Brown, it will be a Dary Gardener sort of gamble. Bring in a former stud, with lots of baggage and hope he shines.

Courtney will get a change of venue, a new high-powered coach with Greg Williams, a change by being in a rotation to stay fresh, and finally an opportunity to make a comeback.

I think he'll be very interested in the Redskins and has a decent chance to play here. As a rotational player, he has less of a chance of getting hurt then the 'every play' grind. Take this gamble, but still draft a late rounder for a DE project.

[Meatsnack]

You can't be serious. If he gets anymore than the league minimum its highway robbery. As if the redskins aren't joked around the league wenough for making dumb signings. Lets just draft cody and be done with it.


Cody weighed in at 257# at his pro-day last week. Pass.

[RedskinRyan]

the only way courtney brown is coming close to Redskin 1 is if he's washing it and not riding in it. im not crazy about the idea, but if williams thinks he can keep him fresh and get some production out of him, why not if the price is right.

[lavarsamonster]

I don't think everyone realizes that this guy was drafted in 2000, he's not that old, sure he has had injuries, but that just lowers his price, why not pick him up, he clearly has the talent if he was drafted #1 overall, and we need a DE, hed be as much risk as drafting a DE would, probably a little less

[MoeRedskins]

I say bring him in, this guy has a lot to prove and would do well from a change of scencery. With the constant rotation on the d line, I think the wear and tear on his body will be brought down significantly. I have been trying to tell people that a change of scencery would be Chris Hovan good, but nobody wants to pick him up either. IMO, if brown is brought in I expect taht #9 pick to be a CB.

[Jimreaper007]

I'd rather take my chances with Brown than a drafted rookie.

Brown is still better than all the guys coming out...

[Redskinfan28]

I'd rather take my chances with Brown than a drafted rookie.

Brown is still better than all the guys coming out...

I disagree. Brown has had every chance to showcase his talents since 2001 and has failed to do so. He looks stiff and just doesn't seem to be very good.

I'd like to see what a younger guy can do.

[smoak]

Until last season inder GW, Springs was considered a talent that never really prospered due to injury.

[Redskin4Life]

the only way courtney brown is coming close to Redskin 1 is if he's washing it and not riding in it. im not crazy about the idea, but if williams thinks he can keep him fresh and get some production out of him, why not if the price is right.
Weren't these some of the chaveats with Kearse? Granted, Courtney's never really produced in the pros but GW made Kearse into the Freak?!?!? Why can't the same be done with Brown??? The last time LaVar and him were on the same team his stats were: 55 tackles, 29 for a loss, 16 sacks in 12 games?!?!? The year before: 47 tackles, 23 for a loss, 11.5 sacks in 11 games?!?!? GW can make him into a stud again!!!

[colkurtz]

Don't care that he was a #1 draft pick. Plenty of total busts in that department.

Don't care that he played college with LaVar.

Can he produce for us, after 5 injury-ridden years in Cleveland or not? Does he have the potential to excel as a rotational player in the G. Williams system? Is he going to be a team player who is reasonably-priced?

For the modest sums we are talking about and if GW really wants him; then we cam move to make CB a Redskin.

[Redskinfan28]

Brown has 17 Sacks in 5 years. He has also missed 33 games in 5 years.
Finally, he will cost at least 2 million per year.

Pass, please.

[Odyn]

In GW +JG I trust. That is all I, or any of us can really say here. Nobody really knows the situation except for them and Snyder.

[PA Skins Girl]

Question: Does a change of scenery keep you from being injury prone?

Some people are just injury prone. Its not that they are doing things differently than the next guy, they are just prone to injury.

I had a girl that worked for me that was always getting hurt. Torn ACL, dislocated shoulder, broken rib, it was always something. The best one was when she broke her arm falling out of the bed, trying to shut off the alarm!

Remember Ki-Jana Carter? Ton of potential, right? Remember signing him, thinking what harm will it do? Well it doesnt do any harm, it just doesnt get you anywhere.

Draft a DE. Draft a DE. Draft a DE.

[smoak]

Question: Does a change of scenery keep you from being injury prone?

Some people are just injury prone. Its not that they are doing things differently than the next guy, they are just prone to injury.

I had a girl that worked for me that was always getting hurt. Torn ACL, dislocated shoulder, broken rib, it was always something. The best one was when she broke her arm falling out of the bed, trying to shut off the alarm!

Remember Ki-Jana Carter? Ton of potential, right? Remember signing him, thinking what harm will it do? Well it doesnt do any harm, it just doesnt get you anywhere.

Draft a DE. Draft a DE. Draft a DE.

It worked for Springs (a guy many people didn't want). That said I tend to agree with you. I don't mind bringing in Brown, but I prefer the youth movement. Daniels and Wynn are a lot more solid that Skins fan given them credit for being.... but we need a situational pass rusher.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Question: Does a change of scenery keep you from being injury prone?

Some people are just injury prone. Its not that they are doing things differently than the next guy, they are just prone to injury.

I had a girl that worked for me that was always getting hurt. Torn ACL, dislocated shoulder, broken rib, it was always something. The best one was when she broke her arm falling out of the bed, trying to shut off the alarm!

Remember Ki-Jana Carter? Ton of potential, right? Remember signing him, thinking what harm will it do? Well it doesnt do any harm, it just doesnt get you anywhere.

Draft a DE. Draft a DE. Draft a DE.
To my surprise, Jevon Kearse managed to stay healthy most of the year. Same for Springs. Maybe if he is brought as part of a rotation, and not as a full-time starter, he can stay healthy more time.

[PA Skins Girl]

Springs, IMO, got a bad rap for being injury prone. He missed 13 games in 6 years before coming to us. We're talking about 33 games in 4 years. In fact, I'm not sure you could find a guy that has missed more games in the last 4 years.

[akhhorus]

Until he signs, lets not get so worked up.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Springs, IMO, got a bad rap for being injury prone. He missed 13 games in 6 years before coming to us. We're talking about 33 games in 4 years. In fact, I'm not sure you could find a guy that has missed more games in the last 4 years.
Yeah, I kind of agree with you. I'm not defending the guy. I just say that MAYBE, if he is part of a rotation, he can stay healthy. Somebody knows who we did injury-wise in college?

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

Until he signs, lets not get so worked up.
Until he signs, or if he signs?? :)

[akhhorus]

Until he signs, or if he signs?? :)

Yes.

[akhhorus]

Springs, IMO, got a bad rap for being injury prone. He missed 13 games in 6 years before coming to us. We're talking about 33 games in 4 years. In fact, I'm not sure you could find a guy that has missed more games in the last 4 years.

OT Marc Columbo has average 6 games a year for his 3 year career. OT Aaron Gibson has missed 36 games over the last four years.

[OCSkinzFan]

Question: Does a change of scenery keep you from being injury prone?

Some people are just injury prone. Its not that they are doing things differently than the next guy, they are just prone to injury.

I had a girl that worked for me that was always getting hurt. Torn ACL, dislocated shoulder, broken rib, it was always something. The best one was when she broke her arm falling out of the bed, trying to shut off the alarm!

Remember Ki-Jana Carter? Ton of potential, right? Remember signing him, thinking what harm will it do? Well it doesnt do any harm, it just doesnt get you anywhere.

Draft a DE. Draft a DE. Draft a DE.

There are NO outstanding DE's in this draft. The way Brown was used has made his career thus far miserable. The whole Cleveland D line runs this passive zone thing that makes it easy to double and cut DE's on their way to their "Zone."

When the Browns originally signed Cortney it was partly because L.A. said he didn't want to play in a defense like the one that they had. So we got L.A. and they got Brown. L.A. took less money and the loss of status of being taken #1 (and probably some of the pressure.) to avoid the Cleveland D.

I'm willing to bet that CB remembers the Glory Days at PS and would love to run some stunts with LA. Bet LA would love it to and is lobbying the powers that be to make it happen.

[chrisbcbu]

Well its official Brown has been cut.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news_room/news/arts/4090.0.html

I wonder how long it will take if we are truly interested in him.

[bgforever]

Well its official Brown has been cut.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news_room/news/arts/4090.0.html

I wonder how long it will take if we are truly interested in him.

I was just thinking, Skins make LOUD announcement they are interested, Redskins1 was in the air before the ink dried and GW was all smiles, scoping out a favorite spot to eat in Cleveland.

[CNYSkinFan]

I was just thinking, Skins make LOUD announcement they are interested, Redskins1 was in the air before the ink dried and GW was all smiles, scoping out a favorite spot to eat in Cleveland.
Yeah someone know where that Redskins one tracking site is?

[chrisbcbu]

Yeah someone know where that Redskins one tracking site is?

LOL

Someone on extremeskins.com had the tracking info for it.

[MoeRedskins]

Well its official Brown has been cut.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news_room/news/arts/4090.0.html

I wonder how long it will take if we are truly interested in him.


Nice, I wonder how long this will take to get Brown. By the rumors that are flying, we fax already faxed him an offer.

[bgforever]

LOL

Someone on extremeskins.com had the tracking info for it.

To me, that's a bit scary, but humurous, I could be released and an hour from that, reps from the Skins are ringing my doorbell! :)

[ryflan47]

hopefully i wake up tomorrow morning and we have a new DE on our hands

[chrisbcbu]

Nice, I wonder how long this will take to get Brown. By the rumors that are flying, we fax already faxed him an offer.

I have a feeling Redskins One is already in Cleveland, and probably has been there all morning waiting for his release.

[Vonslydog]

OT Marc Columbo has average 6 games a year for his 3 year career. OT Aaron Gibson has missed 36 games over the last four years.
There goes Akhhorus bringing facts into it again. Good thing COUNCILMAN isn't here.

[GoDannyBoy]

I don't think this guy is going to come cheap and it seems his injuries are cumulative and not just a freak accident ie. like a broken leg. Someone earlier mentioned 'roids and he could have long term injuries.

I agree with PA Skins Girl this guy would be a bad singing because the time and money we waste on him could be put to good use on a young guy who will perform better for longer for less money.

But I will trust the coachs and training staff to make a good decision.

[Aurej]

According to NFL Total Access Courtney Brown is now a free agent. Some of you showed interest in this not to mention Arringtons.

And CBS sportsline story http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8290963

[warpaint]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2013010

[BtwnDaTackles]

Personally i think that this would be a good addition jus like the norman hand deal both guys need a face lift as far as atmosphere is concerned but if i had to choose it would be brown he just seems like a sleeper and he has a lot to prove now....he'll work for us, and for lavar too.......

[Redskin4Life]

Let's look into those injuries, shall we?

"Injuries severely limited Brown's playing time and production as a pass-rusher. He totaled just 17 sacks in 47 games. His injuries included a torn knee ligament, a high ankle sprain, microfracture knee surgery and a ruptured right biceps tendon."

The torn ligament in his foot is fluky (similar injury as TO's but more severe in his case), that's 14 games out of 33. The torn knee ligament can cause a player to depend more on one leg than the other, causing the microfracture surgery. And the ruptured biceps tendon is fluky as well.

If a player that missed 16 games in 3 years was available at DE, would you take him? If you said "No", you did the same thing the Redskins did last year with Kearse.

C.Brown has been resting since Week 2.... we should grab him up at a cheap price while we can.

[ryflan47]

comon he would be a huge pickup

[PA Skins Girl]

Well its official Brown has been cut.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news_room/news/arts/4090.0.html

I wonder how long it will take if we are truly interested in him.
Okay, we'll start the official clock at 5:00 EST. I'll set the over/under at 24 hours until he's signed by Washington. Do you take the over or the under?

[akhhorus]

Okay, we'll start the official clock at 5:00 EST. I'll set the over/under at 24 hours until he's signed by Washington. Do you take the over or the under?

So, 5 pm tuesday is the cut line? Ill take the over and a side bet on whether the skins get him or not.

[BIGSEF3]

right now we dont know if barrow is healthy enough to start. why would we go and get ANOTHER guy who could end up being injured all year? its just not worth the risk unless he's cheaper than what he already rejected from the browns.

[ConradCountry]

I will take an over bet and say he signs by Thursday.

[PA Skins Girl]

I'll take the under. If the Skins are serious, the contract is in place and waiting signature.

[akhhorus]

I'll take the under. If the Skins are serious, the contract is in place and waiting signature.

If memory serves, similar things were said about Samari Rolle and the skins at the beginning of FA. Im not holding my breath.

[Jimreaper007]

MEDIA TRICK:

Most of us who have been around for more than a week know this, but for the incredibly uniformed I will let you in on a media secret.

The media will float rumors about something that they have no facts on in an effort to force the team to respond. The intended effect is to force the team to address it and open up the door for other little nuggets o' information.

It happened with Rolle

It happened with Moss

[bgforever]

Okay, we'll start the official clock at 5:00 EST. I'll set the over/under at 24 hours until he's signed by Washington. Do you take the over or the under?

under 24 - this kitchen had something cooking in it, 1 minute after he was released by league rules. He had a stamp on him, because we don't let the information out, until is just about in the bag or in it, nowadays.

No more leaky faucets before their time. I think Brow signs for 1 year, that way if he does well, like the Gardner deal we once had, we can choose to move on or attempt to sign him to a longer term. remember, Gardner had freedom to choose, but it also told us Just HOW MUCH he wanted, so if we weren't happy with, as he was , no signing for more years, while position ourselves to add depth to that position. Now DT ISN"T the heel of the team.

[CarMike]

I"d bring him in for no SB. In the right system, wonder if he could become the next Darryl Gardener?

[redwolf1218]

i heard he was going to explore all options, but i only heard of the Redskins supposedly being interested. reminds me of the other free agents whose names were floated out there as being on the Redskins wish list just to jack the price based on Snyder's perceived tendencity to outbid and overpay.

[Keino]

Im with PA Skins Girl on this one. Why would we sign a guy who has ended each of the last 4 years on IR. The only way this makes sense is to pay the vet min with no signing bonus and an incentive laden contract filled with "Non-likely" bonuses that do not affect our cap.

Unless of course Clinton Portis okays it, then well, we should give him whatever he wants. Clinton has one helluva eye for talent. :rolleyes:

[Keino]

BTW - Im taking the Over on this bet. If this signing happens, I think I will be screaming for a GM......

[PA Skins Girl]

Im with PA Skins Girl on this one. Why would we sign a guy who has ended each of the last 4 years on IR. The only way this makes sense is to pay the vet min with no signing bonus and an incentive laden contract filled with "Non-likely" bonuses that do not affect our cap.

Unless of course Clinton Portis okays it, then well, we should give him whatever he wants. Clinton has one helluva eye for talent. :rolleyes:
Yeah but only for U Miami guys.

[Keino]

OT Marc Columbo has average 6 games a year for his 3 year career. OT Aaron Gibson has missed 36 games over the last four years.

How about a guy of consequence? I mean neither one of these guys had their team invest a #1 overall pick and millions of dollars into them.

I say pass on this one. Be thankful that Cleveland didn't take Lavar in that draft.

[GoDannyBoy]

Not re-signing Darryl Gardener may have been our best non-signing in a long time.

I don't think Brown will be able to play a whole season. Good football players always stay in condition and staying in condition is what helps avoid injuries. (see Art Monk and Darrell Green)

[CNYSkinFan]

you know the injury doubters out there are overlooking one thing. The injuries Brown has had are all different fluke type injuries and not indicative of a chronic condition. THis is like Moss' injuries versus Coles. Should we be leary of Brown, yes. But he is definitely worth a minimum contract and I would consider him upn to a contract on par with Phillip Daniels. I guess it comes down to the fact that if GW wants him then we go and get him. GW was right about Taylor, Washington & Griffen, wrong about Daniels and Barrow, at least to the point of whether they can stay healthy, but he can not predict whether injuries will succomb a player.

[akhhorus]

How about a guy of consequence? I mean neither one of these guys had their team invest a #1 overall pick and millions of dollars into them.

I say pass on this one. Be thankful that Cleveland didn't take Lavar in that draft.

I believe both were first rounders and both got decent sized contracts.

Deshaun Foster, decent sized deal, has only played in 18 games out of 48 he's been on the roster for.
Charles Rodgers: big deal; out of 32 games he's been on the roster for, he's played a grand total of 6.

And you have no clue if CB would have gotten those injuries as a Redskin. They are degenerative conditions or problems from college, but game injuries. To say he would have had them with the Skins, if the they drafted him is an absolute counter-factual.

[portis2endzone]

you know the injury doubters out there are overlooking one thing. The injuries Brown has had are all different fluke type injuries and not indicative of a chronic condition. THis is like Moss' injuries versus Coles. Should we be leary of Brown, yes. But he is definitely worth a minimum contract and I would consider him upn to a contract on par with Phillip Daniels. I guess it comes down to the fact that if GW wants him then we go and get him. GW was right about Taylor, Washington & Griffen, wrong about Daniels and Barrow, at least to the point of whether they can stay healthy, but he can not predict whether injuries will succomb a player.
yea i agree. we should put him under a min contract. but remember springs came in here with the same(not as bad) injury prone history. springs ended up missing only what 2 games w/ a hit/concussion that would of made even favre miss a game. maby all he needs is a fresh start. ie like springs.

also the way the browns play if i were on the team i would be begging to be put on IR with the rest of the team.:thinker: maby he a really smart guy....or just really injury prone. lol.

[portis2endzone]

I believe both were first rounders and both got decent sized contracts.
good so hes already made all his money and we can sign him really cheap. right....right....come on

[akhhorus]

good so hes already made all his money and we can sign him really cheap. right....right....come on

Courtney Brown will not get a major sized deal. It might look substantial initially, but the fine print will reveal a brunell like puffing up of it.

[akhhorus]

And it bears repeating again.....


Y'all remember that everyone said that the Skins were about to sign Rolle? How'd that work out? Until they announce it, this argument(not the discussion on his value--but the back and forth about how this shows the ineptitude of the Skins FO) is worthless

[portis2endzone]

Courtney Brown will not get a major sized deal. It might look substantial initially, but the fine print will reveal a brunell like puffing up of it.
ok BUT as long as we dont give him a big SB like we gave the "highestpaidclipcarringwaterbottleguardingtowelrack" QB. ill be fine with that.

[akhhorus]

ok BUT as long as we dont give him a big SB like we gave the "highestpaidclipcarringwaterbottleguardingtowelrack" QB. ill be fine with that.

but in the end Brunell wont cost much. I dont know why people cant understand that fact. 20+ million of his contract is base salary which he'll never see.

[portis2endzone]

but in the end Brunell wont cost much. I dont know why people cant understand that fact. 20+ million of his contract is base salary which he'll never see.
i understand that but his signing bonus was too big. obviously we can say that now but he wasnt going to go anywhere else. we didnt need to give that much away. anyways its already a thing of the past so it doesnt matter.

[akhhorus]

i understand that but his signing bonus was too big. obviously we can say that now but he wasnt going to go anywhere else. we didnt need to give that much away. anyways its already a thing of the past so it doesnt matter.

But its going to be a 2 year-9 million dollar deal. Which is too much, but it is not this albatross around the skins' necks.

[CNYSkinFan]

But its going to be a 2 year-9 million dollar deal. Which is too much, but it is not this albatross around the skins' necks.

It might go 3 if we don't get a qb in this draft or the next. Or If Ramsey is reluctant to resign. But no more then 3.

[portis2endzone]

But its going to be a 2 year-9 million dollar deal. Which is too much, but it is not this albatross around the skins' necks.
compared to what they have done in the past. yea true.

[bgforever]

the good thing is he's available, the most likely thing for a player wanting more than the vet minimum, is a starting bonus that doesn't even kick in, unless he starts, or a sack/tackle ratio, etc. We just can't lay it out for him, like we will a player we have laid our sites on in the draft.

We can't worry about how well he'd do, if someone else got. We are not in the keep away game business. If he fills a need and the price doesn't even come close to tightening us up and altering our previous course, I am sure most would agree to sign him.

However, Brown' s agent already sent a signal. For all we know, it may have been a gentleman's gesture, as someone already pointed out, to just give a friend some leverage for a nice contract and retirement home. If it is otherwise, then yes, we can only sign him, if he doesn't alter our draft potentials and orders, cap readiness. That's a given for any FA , at this time, to inlclude a player like Dyson, Harper, etc.

[lakeskin]

He's paying us a visit.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35278-2005Mar14.html

[shure58]

yikes! not the most flattering picture on yahoo either. i'm still excited though

[inevitable]

Hrm, good article.

[Lavarfn5605]

i would like to see brown come to the skins but only if he is cheap....i think he can be a good player if he can actually play instead of watching from the sidelines.

[Skinz4lyfe]

According to the Post C. Brown is making his first visit as a FA to Redskin Park.

Link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35278-2005Mar14.html)

[COUNCILMAN]

Okay then...I'm calling it also. But I'm calling something different.

Either Brown gets signed by the Skins to play defensive tackle at 290 pounds, or else Brown gets signed contingent that he lose 20 pounds.

He simply can't be an effective pass rusher at 290 pounds and somebody needs to tell him to take a load off his feet. He has no speed at 290 pounds and is better suited for defensive tackle at 290 pounds.

I haven't graduated from brain surgeon school yet, but I can tell you that speed rushers don't weigh 290 pounds. Maybe somebody should have told Brown and Cleveland that, so he wouldn't be straining all his ligaments and getting to the passer only twice per year.

Sign the guy....but at 6-4 he needs to be about 270-275 pounds.

[warpaint]

i saw some highlights of him on tv, he doesnt appear to weight 290, from what i saw he doest look much bigger than lavar

[COUNCILMAN]

Are you sure those highlights weren't from his rookie year.

Laying around on the sofa recovering from constant surgery and injury tends to be boring, and suddenly you get the urge to excercise your right arm using a fork as your weight.

He has looked bigger than he was in college. Those highlights from college were different also.

And don't get me wrong..heck he might play a great defensive tackle, or a great run stuffing defensive end. I was just saying he can't be a speed rusher at 290 pounds. We're better off drafting Erasmus James if we're looking for an impact speed rusher.

[Jimreaper007]

Okay then...I'm calling it also. But I'm calling something different.

Either Brown gets signed by the Skins to play defensive tackle at 290 pounds, or else Brown gets signed contingent that he lose 20 pounds.

He simply can't be an effective pass rusher at 290 pounds and somebody needs to tell him to take a load off his feet. He has no speed at 290 pounds and is better suited for defensive tackle at 290 pounds.

I haven't graduated from brain surgeon school yet, but I can tell you that speed rushers don't weigh 290 pounds. Maybe somebody should have told Brown and Cleveland that, so he wouldn't be straining all his ligaments and getting to the passer only twice per year.

Sign the guy....but at 6-4 he needs to be about 270-275 pounds.


Hello is this thing on?

Reggie White wasn't a speed rusher yet he was quite effective. Michael strahan is not a speed rusher but he is the sack leader. Both of these guys are a combination speed and power. Courtney Brown is more in that hybrid category which would make him more consistent than just a speed rusher.

Stop trying to make people fit molds. That only works in modeling. If the guy is 400 lbs and gets to the QB regularly I am not complaining. Greg williams scheme relies upon DE's that are equally adept at stopping the run and getting after the QB. Smaller DE's get run over.

[Jimreaper007]

I think his first visit is Denver actually but I am not sure.

[PA Skins Girl]

Boy, the prospects of this potential signing just keep getting better and better...

[redwolf1218]

Boy, the prospects of this potential signing just keep getting better and better...
has anyone been tracking Danny's plane through all this?

[PA Skins Girl]

Uuuuggg... This is gonna happen, isnt it?

[CowboyKilla]

Thanks,

[warpaint]

Are you sure those highlights weren't from his rookie year.

Laying around on the sofa recovering from constant surgery and injury tends to be boring, and suddenly you get the urge to excercise your right arm using a fork as your weight.

He has looked bigger than he was in college. Those highlights from college were different also.

And don't get me wrong..heck he might play a great defensive tackle, or a great run stuffing defensive end. I was just saying he can't be a speed rusher at 290 pounds. We're better off drafting Erasmus James if we're looking for an impact speed rusher.
not sure when or what year those highlights were from. yeah i hear you on eating while out due to injury , hopefully we dont have another hotplate williamson here (think that was his name played for the bullets)

[Jimreaper007]

Uuuuggg... This is gonna happen, isnt it?


You think this is a bad idea?

[PA Skins Girl]

You think this is a bad idea?
Yeah, I do.

[warpaint]

Uuuuggg... This is gonna happen, isnt it?
pa skins girl, lavar is from pittsburgh area , isnt courtney from pa. also ?
come on now anyone from the keystone state is ok in my book .

[ryflan47]

is this going to happen maybe sometime today?

[redwolf1218]

"Brown reportedly had screws removed from his foot recently."

ouch! i stepped on a nail once. i hate when that happens.

obviously he'll have to pass a physical.

[Redskinmayhem]

A guy who is 290 is better suited to be an every down DE than a guy weighing 270. Look at kearse. He's injured every other play. Plus playing the run is important to GW. At 290, brown is a good run stopper, better than he would be at 270.

[Jimreaper007]

A guy who is 290 is better suited to be an every down DE than a guy weighing 270. Look at kearse. He's injured every other play. Plus playing the run is important to GW. At 290, brown is a good run stopper, better than he would be at 270.


Agreed...

I would rather have Daniels and Brown as defensive ends because they hold the corners and do not get steam rolled on the run. Daniels is very effective when he is not hurt and having two big and physical DE's is a nice first step a dominant front four. The guys at 270 are good for speed rush only and usually stay injured from the beating they take from O-Lineman that outweigh them by at least 30 pounds.

The lesson here is that hybrids like Peppers at 280 pounds and runs like a linebacker are the wave of future. Brown is a guy that is cat quick and very powerful. His upside is a Reggie white type of DE that destroys the run to his side and requires a double team on passing downs.

[2Cooley]

is this going to happen maybe sometime today?

I think he comes here tuesday or wendsday

[smoak]

Hello is this thing on?

Reggie White wasn't a speed rusher yet he was quite effective. Michael strahan is not a speed rusher but he is the sack leader. Both of these guys are a combination speed and power. Courtney Brown is more in that hybrid category which would make him more consistent than just a speed rusher.

Stop trying to make people fit molds. That only works in modeling. If the guy is 400 lbs and gets to the QB regularly I am not complaining. Greg williams scheme relies upon DE's that are equally adept at stopping the run and getting after the QB. Smaller DE's get run over.


You beat me to it (specifically the Reggie White example). Personally I think speed rushers get streaky more than power DEs. they'll either have a dominante game or be shut out whereas a big DE can put on more consistent pressure IMO. Brown certainly isn't White (ok that sounds odd) but I would offer him a minimum contract. The worst he can do is say no thanks.

[PA Skins Girl]

If and when he becomes a Redskin, I will support him, just like everyone else that wears the burgundy and gold. Until then, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this doesn't happen. Nothing personal against Courtney.

[PA Skins Girl]

pa skins girl, lavar is from pittsburgh area , isnt courtney from pa. also ?
come on now anyone from the keystone state is ok in my book .
Haha, yeah, PA natives are okay, Russ Grimm is my favorite. I'm a Virginia native though.

[Jimreaper007]

Yeah, I do.


Ok..just curious

[GoDannyBoy]

I don't like the sound of it.

[CNYSkinFan]

Okay then...I'm calling it also. But I'm calling something different.

Either Brown gets signed by the Skins to play defensive tackle at 290 pounds, or else Brown gets signed contingent that he lose 20 pounds.

He simply can't be an effective pass rusher at 290 pounds and somebody needs to tell him to take a load off his feet. He has no speed at 290 pounds and is better suited for defensive tackle at 290 pounds.

I haven't graduated from brain surgeon school yet, but I can tell you that speed rushers don't weigh 290 pounds. Maybe somebody should have told Brown and Cleveland that, so he wouldn't be straining all his ligaments and getting to the passer only twice per year.

Sign the guy....but at 6-4 he needs to be about 270-275 pounds.

You aren't ever happy. That is it I am done. The redskins are loking into bringing in a DE, the ONLY thing you have been posting about since the beginning of time and yet you are not happy.

Please please Please wait for graduation. I will gladly pay your tuition.

[joethefan]

WoW first he everythime he posts, he talks about a DE. Then now that we look at one that could help us, he wants him to be a certain size. I've leaned that everyone cannot be satisfied....WOW that blows my mind! :lol1:

[NYSkinsGuru]

I think he will be OK. As long as we dont break the bank on him or be smart and put incentives in his contract, he may be a nice pick up. I am a little lost when it comes to people wanting D when we allowed only 3.1 yards per rush and ranked 3rd in the league overall? Does anyone remember what happend with our O? A healthy Jansen and the Raubach addition will help but our passing game need to improve DRASTICALLY! We have a 2000 yrd back just waiting to see some holes!

[joethefan]

You aren't ever happy. That is it I am done. The redskins are loking into bringing in a DE, the ONLY thing you have been posting about since the beginning of time and yet you are not happy.

Please please Please wait for graduation. I will gladly pay your tuition.

WOW you and I were thinking the same thing....at the same time!!!
That's funny Dustin!

[redskins.uk]

You aren't ever happy. That is it I am done. The redskins are loking into bringing in a DE, the ONLY thing you have been posting about since the beginning of time and yet you are not happy.

Please please Please wait for graduation. I will gladly pay your tuition.


Maybe just to make Councilman happy with DE. We should use every draft pick on DE both in 2005 and 2006. Then we will be statisically nearer to getting the DE that he craves. We all agree that the skins need a DE. However we will never find one that can rush the pass, tackle at the same time, plus do ballet and swim with both hands tied behind his back whilst on the pitch plus everything else.

You take want is available both the rough & smooth/good & bad and mould them to fit our system.

[RedskinsDave]

I'M calling it! #2

I just call it poo.

[akhhorus]

Uuuuggg... This is gonna happen, isnt it?

Jeebus, how are you drawing this conclusion?

[CNYSkinFan]

I just call it poo.

:lol1:

that about sums it up

[CNYSkinFan]

WOW you and I were thinking the same thing....at the same time!!!
That's funny Dustin!

Great minds Jo....great minds.

[akhhorus]

Hey, REALRICK, when are you going to discuss those questions I posted for you? Or are you just going to ignore them because you cant possibly answer them.

[PA Skins Girl]

Jeebus, how are you drawing this conclusion?
I think, unlike the S. Rolle rumors (reported by non-reputable publications), there seems to be at least some truth to these rumors. Nunyo doesnt always have everything right, but if he has a source telling him something, then likely there is at least some interest by Washington.

If Washington is indeed interested, and if they did indeed call him right after he was released, then there is a good chance he will end up in Washington.

You know my stance; I'd rather they stayed away from him. But it appears that things are pointing toward his arrival. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that someone offers him more than we can.

[CNYSkinFan]

You know not that I have to actually post facts to point out the inconsistency in a councilman post, I will.

Cleveland was going to ask Brown to move to outside LB to accomodate switching to a 3-4 defense, and they still will if they happen to resign him (that is still a possibility). If he is the tub of lard you think he is Councilman why would cleveland even entertain this idea? Brown is obviously very athletic and has speed if he is even considered to be a starter at OLB.

on another note why did this not get merged into the Courtney Brown everything thread? Perhaps we are quarantining this thread.

[akhhorus]

I think, unlike the S. Rolle rumors (reported by non-reputable publications), there seems to be at least some truth to these rumors. Nunyo doesnt always have everything right, but if he has a source telling him something, then likely there is at least some interest by Washington.

If Washington is indeed interested, and if they did indeed call him right after he was released, then there is a good chance he will end up in Washington.

You know my stance; I'd rather they stayed away from him. But it appears that things are pointing toward his arrival. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that someone offers him more than we can.

The Post, Times, ESPN, Cnn/SI, Fox Sports all reported the Rolle rumor before free agency. Pro Football Central kept banging that drum after the start. There is nothing on Brown coming to the Skins except for a visit. Relax.

[VirginiaRedskin]

I do not know what we can get Brown for, but I am suggesting we do not! He has been hurt too often and under achieved when he has played. He had 17 sacks in 5 years. No thanks.

[PA Skins Girl]

The Post, Times, ESPN, Cnn/SI, Fox Sports all reported the Rolle rumor before free agency. Pro Football Central kept banging that drum after the start. There is nothing on Brown coming to the Skins except for a visit. Relax.
When was the last time a player came in for a visit and didnt leave with a contract?

Hey, I am relaxed. I will be at peace with whatever happens. I will accept with open arms anyone wearing the B&G. The more and more it looks like this will happen, the more and more I try to talk myself into this being a good thing.

[schmackledackle]

The Post, Times, ESPN, Cnn/SI, Fox Sports all reported the Rolle rumor before free agency. Pro Football Central kept banging that drum after the start. There is nothing on Brown coming to the Skins except for a visit. Relax.

The only reaon a player comes for a visit is because both parties are interested in a signing. Rolle never came for a visit.

Nunyo specifically points out that sources say Brown is seriously considering the Skins.

Does this mean he will definitely sign? Of course not. But it does indicate that this thing is far more real and likely than anything concerning Rolle.

[inevitable]

Hello is this thing on?

Reggie White wasn't a speed rusher yet he was quite effective. Michael strahan is not a speed rusher but he is the sack leader. Both of these guys are a combination speed and power. Courtney Brown is more in that hybrid category which would make him more consistent than just a speed rusher.

Stop trying to make people fit molds. That only works in modeling. If the guy is 400 lbs and gets to the QB regularly I am not complaining. Greg williams scheme relies upon DE's that are equally adept at stopping the run and getting after the QB. Smaller DE's get run over.

and

You aren't ever happy. That is it I am done. The redskins are loking into bringing in a DE, the ONLY thing you have been posting about since the beginning of time and yet you are not happy.


Thread over

[IowaSkinsFan]

Threads merged.

[S.Taylor36]

I'll take Brown with a good contract, but other than that, be so injury prone scares me. And about his weight, let's not get confused here, he's not Reggie White. Nobody moved like Reggie at his weight, so lets not expect Brown to by any means.

[Keino]

I believe both were first rounders and both got decent sized contracts.

Deshaun Foster, decent sized deal, has only played in 18 games out of 48 he's been on the roster for.
Charles Rodgers: big deal; out of 32 games he's been on the roster for, he's played a grand total of 6.

And you have no clue if CB would have gotten those injuries as a Redskin. They are degenerative conditions or problems from college, but game injuries. To say he would have had them with the Skins, if the they drafted him is an absolute counter-factual.

I don't think I make the contention that he would've gotten those injuries as a Skin, but I can say that Comparatively, I would much rather have Lavar's career to date than CB's.

You're right, I have no clue if CB would have sustained those injuries in the B&G. Nevertheless, the last 4 seasons he's ended on IR. Im absolutely shocked that there are people arguing he's not injury prone. I don't care if they are "freak" injuries or not, he's prone to get them as 80% of his pro seasons have ended with him on IR.

He may be the biggest bust #1 overall since Tony Mandarich.

[akhhorus]

I don't think I make the contention that he would've gotten those injuries as a Skin, but I can say that Comparatively, I would much rather have Lavar's career to date than CB's.

You're right, I have no clue if CB would have sustained those injuries in the B&G. Nevertheless, the last 4 seasons he's ended on IR. Im absolutely shocked that there are people arguing he's not injury prone. I don't care if they are "freak" injuries or not, he's prone to get them as 80% of his pro seasons have ended with him on IR.

He may be the biggest bust #1 overall since Tony Mandarich.

Gotta go with Aundray Bruce.
Mandarich got his head on straight and was a halfway decent player for a few years for the Colts.
How about: Russell Maryland? Ki-Jana Carter? Steve Emtman? Tom Cousineau? Irving Fryar?

Brown hasnt been healthy, we dont know how good he could be if he was.

[gbalzac]

not sure if anyones posted this article...some interesting reading...

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1110889888133130.xml


"[The Redskins] h a v e been on him since the speculation [about his release] began," said the source.
...
"Washington's rabid interest in Brown could be the reason the Browns got nowhere in restructuring Brown's contract. General Manager Phil Savage, who previously stated a desire to re-sign Brown, declined to comment on Monday."
...
"Courtney's one of those different types," Fazio said. "It's difficult to motivate him. He doesn't show any emotion at all. He's level-minded. I think he does still have the desire. He's gonna be with LaVar and be with a defense that was ranked near the top all last year."
...

last comment may be the most telling as to what's happening, sounds like Fazio knows something.

[schmackledackle]

Gotta go with Aundray Bruce.
Mandarich got his head on straight and was a halfway decent player for a few years for the Colts.
How about: Russell Maryland? Ki-Jana Carter? Steve Emtman? Tom Cousineau? Irving Fryar?

Brown hasnt been healthy, we dont know how good he could be if he was.


I agree with Keino, CB certainly has been injury prone.

Also, I don't know how anyone could put Irving Fryar on a list of busts. He was a very good receiver for a very long time.

The other guys are certainly debatable, but Fryar is not.

[RoanokeSkin]

I agree with Keino, CB certainly has been injury prone.

Also, I don't know how anyone could put Irving Fryar on a list of busts. He was a very good receiver for a very long time.

The other guys are certainly debatable, but Fryar is not.


The knock on Shawn Springs was that he was injury prone, and he was great for us last year. Who knows, maybe the guy comes in and rejuvinates his career, with Lavar behind him like Penn State.

[Keino]

The knock on Shawn Springs was that he was injury prone, and he was great for us last year. Who knows, maybe the guy comes in and rejuvinates his career, with Lavar behind him like Penn State.

But nobody thought that was a bad signing. See Springs had demonstrated the ability to stay healthy and perfrom at a Pro-bowl level. We've not see that from Courtney Brown....

[akhhorus]

I agree with Keino, CB certainly has been injury prone.

Also, I don't know how anyone could put Irving Fryar on a list of busts. He was a very good receiver for a very long time.

The other guys are certainly debatable, but Fryar is not.

He was good at times, but he certainly wasnt worth the #1 pick. Him over Darrell Green? Jim Kelly? Eric Dickerson? Bruce Matthews? Roger Craig?(a counterfactual, I grant)

[BIGSEF3]

i read somewhere, that being labeled "injury-prone" is often not a direct reflection on a player's health and abilities as much as it is on pure chance and bad luck. i mean, kellen winslow jr. missed last year, but it was bad luck. same w/ jansen. now, certain players do have chronic conditions they have to deal with, like a former receiver's bad toe, or something like that. i havent read anything about brown that makes me think he truly has a chronic condition.

i am hesitant about signing brown, but at the same time, what if he's just had a string of bad luck injuries? what if he never took the time to fully recover from the 1st one, and pushed himself to go back too soon and thats why he hasnt played in a while. what if the system he was in pushed him to do things in a way that increased the likelyhood of him being injured.

the one thing i know about our defense is that we dont have true starters in the sense that alot of teams do. we have key guys, yes, but our defensive players come in and out of games non-stop. they are always fresh and ready. maybe our system is exactly what brown needs to become healthy again. even if he plays 30% of the time, imagine how effective he could be. if he makes huge plays the 30 percent of the time he's there, then he's made a huge improvement on our defense.

[redwolf1218]

not sure if anyones posted this article...some interesting reading...

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1110889888133130.xml


"[The Redskins] h a v e been on him since the speculation [about his release] began," said the source.
...
"Washington's rabid interest in Brown could be the reason the Browns got nowhere in restructuring Brown's contract. General Manager Phil Savage, who previously stated a desire to re-sign Brown, declined to comment on Monday."
...
"Courtney's one of those different types," Fazio said. "It's difficult to motivate him. He doesn't show any emotion at all. He's level-minded. I think he does still have the desire. He's gonna be with LaVar and be with a defense that was ranked near the top all last year."
...

last comment may be the most telling as to what's happening, sounds like Fazio knows something.
Fazio's comment sounds like it's a done deal already.

[PennSkinsFan]

Fazio's comment sounds like it's a done deal already.

Very odd, and yes, ity sounds as if a deal is in place already. Who deos Brown bump out of the starting role, shoudl he elevate to starter? Wynn or Daniels?