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View Full Version : Am I the only one here with faith in Ramsey?


ImmortalDragon
03-24-2005, 05:36 PM
I really believe he will be the next Favre, or the closest thing to him. He is tough (playing with Spurrier's "line" scheme), strong arm, and already has a couple game winning drives for the Redskins in his short career. We don't need to waste a draft pick on a QB, Ramsey just needs to work with the new recievers and I'm sure he can get the job done.

BurgundyNGold
03-24-2005, 05:39 PM
Yes.





j/k. We all like him, but he's got some unanswered questions. He hasn't put together a single pro bowl caliber game yet, let alone season.

Skinz4lyfe
03-24-2005, 05:44 PM
I have been in Ramsey's corner since his rookie year and I'm not backing down now. I too think he'll be a Probowl QB if he's given the opportunity to flourish. I know he has a lot of work to do (seeing the field better, better footwork, putting touch on the ball, etc.) but I've seen enough of his play to realize he has some potential. Gibbs and the coaching staff will work w/him so he can reach his potential. Hopefully next year this time we'll be talking contract extension w/Ramsey instead of "is Ramsey our QB of the future".

Ohiofan
03-24-2005, 05:48 PM
Ramsey will do a fine job. All of you doubters, particularly those who were so pro-Brunell, will have to eat your words just like you did last year after Brunell established new NFL records for futility

IMALILTEAPOT
03-24-2005, 05:49 PM
it isnt good for u tp be this optimistic, trust me i know. if ramsey struggles like crazy next year, its gonna hurt a lot. thats why u should keep ur expectations low, at least until we get to the playoffs

RoanokeSkin
03-24-2005, 05:53 PM
He may end up being good. This whole "next Favre" thing .... I dont think so.

warpaint
03-24-2005, 05:56 PM
it isnt good for u tp be this optimistic, trust me i know. if ramsey struggles like crazy next year, its gonna hurt a lot. thats why u should keep ur expectations low, at least until we get to the playoffs
i have always rooted for ramsey , the problem is he got beat up so badly with all those big hits that he started getting thos happy feets , then gibbs came in and gave the starting job to no count brunell , what has happen is ramsey has lost most of that confidence that he had , he needs to get that back ,our line needs to get better , gibbs needs to make a few changes ,someway make him start beleiving in himself again. if he does that ,there isnt any reason that he cant be a good nfl q.b.

ryflan47
03-24-2005, 06:00 PM
i like ramsey, he's got potential

Keino
03-24-2005, 06:01 PM
I like Ramsey, Im just tired of all the excuses that are made for him and tired of the comparisons to 1st Ballot HOF QB's like Favre and Manning. The Notion that he never had a fair chance is simply not true.

Right now QB is the most questionable position on the team. I hope like heck he steps up and has a breakout year.

BTW - Gibbs didn't give the QB job to Brunell, Brunell earned it by outplaying Patrick. Not sure why people keep overlooking that little fact.

SkinsASchamps
03-24-2005, 06:01 PM
I really believe he will be the next Favre, or the closest thing to him. He is tough (playing with Spurrier's "line" scheme), strong arm, and already has a couple game winning drives for the Redskins in his short career. We don't need to waste a draft pick on a QB, Ramsey just needs to work with the new recievers and I'm sure he can get the job done.


Favre is smart and can read a defense. Ramsey has not proven anything to that effect. Yes he has a strong arm and is tough but he is not the next Favre.

C-7
03-24-2005, 06:04 PM
Ramsey will do a fine job. All of you doubters, particularly those who were so pro-Brunell, will have to eat your words just like you did last year after Brunell established new NFL records for futility


I jumped off the Brunell bandwagon after week one. I hope your right. I don't ever want to see him taking snaps as a skin in a real game again.

I have this gut feeling that if Ramsey leaves the Skins he's gonna be really good somewhere else, and that would just kill me.


To answer your question: no, I also have faith. I know that everybody says that Ramsey is going into his fourth season and that we can't continue making excuses for him, but if you really think about it, how many opportunities has he really had:

- Half a (rookie) season under Spurrier.
- A season where he began as a starter and probably took more hits than any other QB in NFL history. Not mention had a complete fool as a Coach.
- 1/4 of a season under Gibbs.

bfauble83
03-24-2005, 06:06 PM
I've defended him (mostly from my brother who hates him) since his rookie year. Now its put up or shut up time, Ramsey has to put together a good season this year or I don't see it ever happening (in Washington anyway)

BurgundyNGold
03-24-2005, 06:13 PM
If Trent Dilfer can win a Superbowl, Patrick Ramsey can win one. 'Nuff said.

colkurtz
03-24-2005, 06:23 PM
The guy was fifth from the bottom in QB ratings last year and you're comparing him to Farve? Also, he did not play in some games [over last 3 seasons] because two different coaches thought the other QB was better.

He has a great arm and potential; on the other hand, he has limited mobility, no touch on the short stuff and has trouble checking down. He missed open receivers on the long stuff last year.

Our season rides with him. If he does well, we will do well. Otherwise, we will be drafting a QB in 2006.

skinfanatic
03-24-2005, 06:24 PM
i think he can be good, not great or elite, but good. however, he still has a long way to go. im all for being for the team, but some people are too blinded by their loyalty. if ramsey doesnt do it next year, hes done for us (unless theres some odd situation.) this is why i think go for a qb early day 2.

LATrueRedskin
03-24-2005, 06:26 PM
I think Ramsey can get it done. I don't know about being the next Favre, but we don't need him to be. We need him to be able to manage the game well, hand the ball off to Portis, don't turn the ball over, and hit the occasional tough pass to keep the defense honest. We're a running team, not an air attack. I think Ramsey can be damn good at that. He's a smart guy, has an incredible arm, and is getting time in the starting lineup.

LadyNRedskinsfan
03-24-2005, 06:26 PM
i can already tell this is going to be a very interesting thread, lol.

i have faith that ramsey can get it done if everyone around him does his job, but im not sure about the next favre.

War Hogg
03-24-2005, 06:28 PM
Pretty much....

bgforever
03-24-2005, 06:31 PM
no more comments about his abilities from me. When the coach keeps him, starts him and likes him, brings in Musgrave and Musgrave says he's doable, I am sold. Plus its in Mark Brunell's best interest to help Ram, because its a two way street in access, support and information. Musgrave can read between the lines and will feed Ram a helluva lot more than Brunell ever saw.

Then if Ram can't do his thing correctly, then we talk about no confidence, washed up, etc.

Time please.

CNYSkinFan
03-24-2005, 06:33 PM
I know Brett Favre....I played with Brett Favre....you Patrick are no BVrett Favre.


But seriously I hope he will be good, believe he will be good. But he has to show me something this season.

mexskins
03-24-2005, 06:39 PM
This is a make or break season for him. I have faith in Patrick though.


Hail from Mexico !!!

rhummer37
03-24-2005, 06:42 PM
Ramsey will do well. He is not football-smart enough to control the game the way Spurrier wanted him to (or atleast he was not smart enough while under Spurrier) but I think he shall do well under Gibb's run-first offense.

Of course, this all relies on drafting M. Williams or B. Edwards.

:)

Jimreaper007
03-24-2005, 06:45 PM
Ramsey will be much improved over last year and I have faith in him.

akhhorus
03-24-2005, 06:58 PM
Ramsey will get it done this year, or be gone next year. He has talent, but he hasnt not shown anything to be compared with Favre at all.

RedskinsVision
03-24-2005, 07:43 PM
i remember after the Jets game, Al and John Madden and ESPN were all asking if we are looking at a star being born in Ramsey. although he hasn't come through yet, he has shown enough to merit a chance.. and this year is that chance. show us that you can be that star we need Patrick.. good luck.. the hopes of millions of Skins' fans rest with you.

CarMike
03-24-2005, 07:43 PM
Nope. I have faith in Ramsey. But he has to show something this year. If not, i'm ready to start over. I hope he stay healthy and coach Gibbs shows Ramsey as much patience as he did Brunell starting the season.

redskin_rich
03-24-2005, 07:49 PM
The key with Ramsey is the protection. He has looked good when he has time and he has looked bad when pressured.
I think with the o-line improving and some new receivers that are deep threats, he will play well. Hopefully, Musgrave teaches Pat how to make better reads and to know when to throw the ball away.
He doesn't have to be an all pro in this system, he just has to avoid mistakes.

Keino
03-24-2005, 08:48 PM
The key with Ramsey is the protection. He has looked good when he has time and he has looked bad when pressured.
I think with the o-line improving and some new receivers that are deep threats, he will play well. Hopefully, Musgrave teaches Pat how to make better reads and to know when to throw the ball away.
He doesn't have to be an all pro in this system, he just has to avoid mistakes.


I agree Rich, which is why the comparison to Favre pisses me off frankly. Favre when pressured (Especially in his prime) could scramble and buy himself time. It was to the point in 95 where defenses were scared to send a blitz at Favre, because he would either use his mobility to buy time or he would flat out read the 1 on 1 matchup and burn defenses. Patrick hasn't shown that ability. It doesn't mean he isn't a capable QB, it just means that Favre is a Special kind of QB.

redwolf1218
03-24-2005, 08:58 PM
Ramsey will get it done this year, or be gone next year. He has talent, but he hasnt not shown anything to be compared with Favre at all.
i would compare their arm strength and toughness, that's all. i see Ramsey as being smarter, but favre as being more of a leader. Ramsey might be closer to a Mark Rypien, hopefully without the fumbles.

tbfoster1
03-24-2005, 09:00 PM
Ramsey + Musgrave and Gibbs + Bugel and a Healthy Upgraded O-Line = Success

bgforever
03-24-2005, 09:01 PM
Ramsey + Musgrave and Gibbs + Bugel and a Healthy Upgraded O-Line = Success

Like the pick of the Axis of Evil :lol1:

How do I get my pics in there or where is the information on how and size, is it in CP?

1994softtail
03-24-2005, 09:07 PM
reality, musgrave here to give patrick his best chance to be the quarterback we invision, and has yet to show. he will make or brake his career with us this season. at that point the tough decision comes, resign him- trade him - release him.
he will have 1 year left on his contract.

Ramsey2Moss
03-24-2005, 09:16 PM
I love Ramsey (as if you couldn't tell from my sig). I think he will accomplish great things for us this year and have a breakout season. If not, expect our first rounder next year to be a QB.

skins111111
03-24-2005, 09:30 PM
Ram is definatly a pocket passer......now we have the O-Line to hold the pocket for a few seconds.......Ram has many weapons and will gain confidence in the preseason...........We will have the air game to compliment CPs ground game,,,,,,,,,,,I believe Drew Brees had a pretty good 4th year..............Rams pass%, QB ratting and TD to Interseption will all be top level this season.

skinsfan36
03-24-2005, 09:33 PM
i think 05 is ramseys breakout year.he has a strong arm and fast recievers a much better line w/jansen,and rabach.he also has one of the nfls best rbs in portis behind him.i smell breakout year

akhhorus
03-24-2005, 09:40 PM
i would compare their arm strength and toughness, that's all. i see Ramsey as being smarter, but favre as being more of a leader. Ramsey might be closer to a Mark Rypien, hopefully without the fumbles.

When I see Ramsey really click, the QB who comes to mind the most is someone like Dan Fouts or Ken Stabler.

STaylor36boom
03-24-2005, 09:44 PM
this will be only his third year , right? i think the guy has a cannon and the sheer toughness he showed during spurrier's last year totally sold me on him. if he improves his footwork and really dedicates himself, i think he can be a top 5-7 QB. may sound crazy, but i think better footwork and an improved line and we'll see drastic offensive improvements.

PennSkinsFan
03-24-2005, 09:48 PM
reality, musgrave here to give patrick his best chance to be the quarterback we invision, and has yet to show. he will make or brake his career with us this season. at that point the tough decision comes, resign him- trade him - release him.
he will have 1 year left on his contract.

I agree totally. Musgrave was brought in to give new input to the Gibbs system, a west coast influx a little, but chiefly as well, he is here to mentor and connect with Ramsey. We can uses more excuses if you wish, like, Moss and Patten are new, and Ram has to start over with new receivers and this and that and blah blh blah, but as a HUGE Ram fan, NO MORE EXCUSES. There are new receivers, big deal! Your a 4 year professional and it is time to prove you belong here no matter who is catching the ball. Ram's prblem is not getting the ball to any receiver, it is decisions and reading defenses.

Personally, in th emake of break year, I honestly believe Ram is going to make it. He vastly improved in 2004 from 2003, and with a year in the system, continued tutoring from Burns and instruction from Musgrave, I think we will see more huge leaps in level of play from Ramsey.

redwolf1218
03-24-2005, 10:00 PM
When I see Ramsey really click, the QB who comes to mind the most is someone like Dan Fouts or Ken Stabler.
if our line can give Ramsey the kind of time Stabler had, he'll do fine.

redskin5621742
03-24-2005, 10:16 PM
Ramsey will be fine. Spurrier's system screwed with his head. 5/6 blockers against 7/8 defenders will mess up any Qb's head. Patience and stability is all he needs, of course staying on his feet and not his backside helps in the long run too. Ramsey will be a Pro Bowler sooner than later in his career

redwolf1218
03-24-2005, 10:22 PM
i think they should try the shot gun with ramsey. that's what he did in college, and that's what byron leftwich did in college, and with the jags. i've seen John Elway start out in the shotgun and then drop back 5 to 7 steps from there. you have to have a really strong arm to start out throwing from 15 or 20 yards behind the line like that, but it buys time and Ramsey has the arm.

akhhorus
03-24-2005, 10:24 PM
i think they should try the shot gun with ramsey. that's what he did in college, and that's what byron leftwich did in college, and with the jags. i've seen John Elway start out in the shotgun and then drop back 5 to 7 steps from there. you have to have a really strong arm to start out throwing from 15 or 20 yards behind the line like that, but it buys time and Ramsey has the arm.

yeah, but you completely negate the play action with Portis if you do that enough. And you're basically giving a tell that you're passing, running out of the shotgun is problematic.

Meatsnack
03-24-2005, 10:27 PM
Favre is smart and can read a defense. Ramsey has not proven anything to that effect. Yes he has a strong arm and is tough but he is not the next Favre.

Brett is a lot of things but a rocket scientist isn't one of them. Mike Holmgren got very disgusted, early and often, at Favre's slow rate of assimilation to the WCO. He had to beat stuff into his head a play at a time after practice every day in one on one film sessions for years.

Maybe if someone invested that kind of effort in Ramsey he would begin to approach Favre's abilities. But, maybe not. The things that makes Favre great are his leadership, toughness, and overall athleticism. P-Ram has toughness, may develop as a leader, and will never be that athletic. I think Ramsey can be a pro-bowl caliber QB if things line up his way. He could also be Gus Frerotte.

redwolf1218
03-24-2005, 10:28 PM
yeah, but you completely negate the play action with Portis if you do that enough. And you're basically giving a tell that you're passing, running out of the shotgun is problematic.
you can still hand off from the shotgun, but i see your points.

Meatsnack
03-24-2005, 10:29 PM
When I see Ramsey really click, the QB who comes to mind the most is someone like Dan Fouts or Ken Stabler.

I see a Terry Bradshaw without the lobotomy or the unfortunate tendency to "sing".

akhhorus
03-24-2005, 10:33 PM
you can still hand off from the shotgun, but i see your points.

yeah, you can; but the running game is more of a gimmick at that point. You aint paying Portis that much to be a decoy. Better to run a traditional formation, and hand off deep to him, the play action will help ramsey more than a few extra yards.

redwolf1218
03-24-2005, 10:34 PM
yeah, you can; but the running game is more of a gimmick at that point. You aint paying Portis that much to be a decoy. Better to run a traditional formation, and hand off deep to him, the play action will help ramsey more than a few extra yards.
ok shot gun for Ramsey is a terrible idea, for many reasons. sorry i mentioned it.

akhhorus
03-24-2005, 10:35 PM
ok shot gun for Ramsey is a terrible idea, for many reasons. sorry i mentioned it.

No, its a good one for 2 or 3 and long, but not as a base formation.

STaylor36boom
03-24-2005, 10:37 PM
i think implementing it occasionally on 3rd and long is an idea, ramsey can drop back from the shotgun=more time and has the arm to pull it off

redwolf1218
03-24-2005, 10:38 PM
No, its a good one for 2 or 3 and long, but not as a base formation.
i wonder if the new QB coach from the Jags will suggest it.

whitskins
03-24-2005, 10:38 PM
No, its a good one for 2 or 3 and long, but not as a base formation.

Yeah we at least need a shotgun for third and long, I'm surprised we never saw it last year with our line play. I think that will be something Musgrave can bring, Leftwich used some shotgun in Jax.

BIGSEF3
03-24-2005, 10:57 PM
theres no reason not to use it, atleast SOME of the time. the colts are probably about 75% shotgun and our offense is starting to look similar to theirs, in my opinion. i think we will see the shotgun atleast 5 or 6 times a game this year.

War Hogg
03-24-2005, 11:17 PM
theres no reason not to use it, atleast SOME of the time. the colts are probably about 75% shotgun and our offense is starting to look similar to theirs, in my opinion. i think we will see the shotgun atleast 5 or 6 times a game this year.

Am I missing something? Our offense is nothing like the Colts....personell or scheme-wise....

Ibleedburgundy
03-24-2005, 11:20 PM
burgandyandgold, you said Ramsey has not yet put together even a pro-bowl caliber game. I disagree a million percent. In 2003 in Atlanta, Ramsey guided the Skins to an incredible comeback to beat the Falcons 34-32 or so. Also, in 2004 he went 19 for 22 against the Giants with no INT's and a TD pass.

redwolf1218
03-24-2005, 11:27 PM
burgandyandgold, you said Ramsey has not yet put together even a pro-bowl caliber game. I disagree a million percent. In 2003 in Atlanta, Ramsey guided the Skins to an incredible comeback to beat the Falcons 34-32 or so. Also, in 2004 he went 19 for 22 against the Giants with no INT's and a TD pass.
that 19 for 22 game was the showing i'd been waiting for.

SusQhnnaSkin
03-25-2005, 01:34 AM
You are not alone. I have plenty of faith in Ramsey. For every harsh critic, there are probably 2 believers. I have been in his corner ever since we traded down to draft him, including during the whole SS & BUMnell experiments.

Is he the next Farve? No, I can't agree with that statement. But he will not need to be for this team to win. He just needs to grow with Joe's O, just like the rest of the team. I know he will.

CamLwalk
03-25-2005, 02:02 AM
"High first round Michigan WR's give me the creeps"

hehe that's great...

I love the guy...don't get me wrong, noone roots harder for Patrick than me. It's just that....damn, I don't know, I've seen Patrick play horribly, horribly BAD sometimes. Frustratingly, wanna-slap-him-on-the-side-of-the-helmet BAD. I wish a mad scientist could geneticly fuse Brad Johnson's ability to read the D with Patrick's gun of an arm. I HAVE FAITH though. Patrick has the best coach in the history of the universe.

SusQhnnaSkin
03-25-2005, 02:45 AM
"High first round Michigan WR's give me the creeps"

hehe that's great...

I love the guy...don't get me wrong, noone roots harder for Patrick than me. It's just that....damn, I don't know, I've seen Patrick play horribly, horribly BAD sometimes. Frustratingly, wanna-slap-him-on-the-side-of-the-helmet BAD. I wish a mad scientist could geneticly fuse Brad Johnson's ability to read the D with Patrick's gun of an arm. I HAVE FAITH though. Patrick has the best coach in the history of the universe.
Thanks..Braylon=Desmond? I get plenty frustrated with Pat too...but you gotta have patience with these young QB's. I'll forgive his current mistakes for the possibility of future glory! I'm sure Brad would not have done any better reading defences early in his career under the same sets of circumstances.

AGibbsGirl
03-25-2005, 06:39 AM
Been a fan the whole time, keep him covered, keep him healthy, don't create controversy he'll be good for us

Redskin4Life
03-25-2005, 08:40 AM
Yes.





j/k. We all like him, but he's got some unanswered questions. He hasn't put together a single pro bowl caliber game yet, let alone season.
I disagree with the Pro Bowl caliber games... ATL two years ago and NYG last year were pretty good games for Ramsey. But you're right, there are alot of question marks that need to be addressed.

Favre had to leave the team that drafted him to become the "playing legend" that he is... (drafted by ATL).

2Cooley
03-25-2005, 08:42 AM
theres no reason not to use it, atleast SOME of the time. the colts are probably about 75% shotgun and our offense is starting to look similar to theirs, in my opinion. i think we will see the shotgun atleast 5 or 6 times a game this year.


our offense looks nothing like theirs

CNYSkinFan
03-25-2005, 08:50 AM
The shotgun is something that Gibbs talked about in the off season. Gibbs has never used the gun. He has always preferred a play action offense and rhythm passing that the gun is not able to do. Gibbs did say he might look at doing it though in the off season as part of opening up his offense.

The only time the gun should be used is 2 minute drill and 3rd and long. The question remains on whether Ramsey can benefit from the gun or if it throws of his read progression.

Minnesota Mike
03-25-2005, 12:17 PM
With the offseason improvement in the O-line, nobody will be doubting Ramsey this season. The guy is the real deal. This team will win with him.

ryflan47
03-25-2005, 12:21 PM
With the offseason improvement in the O-line, nobody will be doubting Ramsey this season. The guy is the real deal. This team will win with him.

Ramsey's all in.

OCSkinzFan
03-25-2005, 02:13 PM
Yeah we at least need a shotgun for third and long, I'm surprised we never saw it last year with our line play. I think that will be something Musgrave can bring, Leftwich used some shotgun in Jax.

Last year our centers had problems just hiking the ball into the QB's hands and then ole'ing the bulls into the backfield like drunk matadors. Hopefully with a better center the shotgun can become an option. Ram has the arm for a shotgun w/ a seven step drop and still throw the bomb. This type of drop can spread the D and open up screens. OhSh..t did I say screen? :imshock:

MoeRedskins
03-25-2005, 02:16 PM
Joe Gibbs stated multiple times during the past season that he hates using the shotgun. He does not like the fact that the center has the snap it, the qb catch and adjust it, and then look at his progressions. Gibbs thinks that there is just to much taht can go wrong with the shotgun and he has got a point. Gibbs wants to minimulize mistakes and by not using the shotgun he is. Musgrave must be one sweet talker to get Joe to use the gun.

BIGSEF3
03-25-2005, 04:43 PM
our offense looks nothing like theirs

i disagree.

we have a quarterback with a strong arm who is most comfortable in the shotgun.

our running backs are nearly identical in size and style. (clinton is an inch shorter and 9 lbs lighter)

we have a solid offensive line that will protect our quarterback and allow our running back to... run.

we have a receiving corps that is built on speed.

we do not have the big names of the colts (meaning patrick ramsey is no payton manning.) but the personnel we have chosen have similar qualities as their counterparts on the colts. now, our past STYLE OF PLAY is the furthest thing from the colts. but the personnel we have best-suited to run a colts-style offense, in my opinion.

colkurtz
03-25-2005, 05:00 PM
I'd like to see the shotgun, if for nothing else than to give the defense a different look. I'm personally really curious whether Joe will run it on occassion this season as he modernizes and opens up his offense.

So Redwolf - I thought it was a good idea on occassion, when you're third and long and everyone knows you're going to pass anyway. Gibbs has got to upgrade this offense and open up the secondary through a real passing attack - which will greatly improve the run.

joethefan
03-25-2005, 05:29 PM
I like Ramsey, Im just tired of all the excuses that are made for him and tired of the comparisons to 1st Ballot HOF QB's like Favre and Manning. The Notion that he never had a fair chance is simply not true.

Right now QB is the most questionable position on the team. I hope like heck he steps up and has a breakout year.

BTW - Gibbs didn't give the QB job to Brunell, Brunell earned it by outplaying Patrick. Not sure why people keep overlooking that little fact.

Thank you..that sums up my thoughts

BIGSEF3
03-25-2005, 05:54 PM
Thank you..that sums up my thoughts

i dont think people make excuses for ramsey, in as much as they state facts. people who say ramsey is the next brett favre b/c of certain statistical similarities are being unreasonable. but people who point out what he did when he started for gibbs, which in my opinion, was fairly impressive, are just stating facts.

i dont think ramsey is a future HOF quarterback. but i feel moved to "defend" him b/c some people are trashing him, when the season hasnt even started. people were wrong to expect a miracle from gibbs his 1st season back, and they were wrong to expect ramsey to turn an entire team around overnight in the middle of a deplorable season.

the facts show ramsey is a fully CAPEABLE quarterback. we had a shoddy line last season, receiers didnt get open deep with any regularity, so there were 8 men in the box all the time. it hurt the running game. it hurt the passing game. its not Ramsey's fault, people. He is playing on par with what you would expect from a guy who was barely a 1st round draft pick.

there is no reason to EXPECT that this year wont be signifigantly better. i know we've been losing a long time, but has everyone forgotten what joe gibbs did last time his second year? we shouldnt raise our hopes quite so high, but everyone here has gotten do damn pessemistic. we start winning again guys! come on! cheer up!

HollywoodKolt
03-25-2005, 06:11 PM
I think Ramsey can and will get it done in Washington. While I can see where the comparison to Favre could come in, I don't think Ramsey can be the kind of MVP QB that Favre was/is.

If Ramsey has shown anything during his time in Washington he's shown that he's tough, and most importantly he's coachable.

I don't think that there are a lot of quarterbacks, or people that could have sustained the kind of beating that Ramey did his second year in the league and keep going. Remember that the injured that eventually ended his season had been hurting him since that August.

This year Ramsey showed how coachable he is. In his first two years he was taught, if you get in trouble just kind of chuck it up there and hope for the best. He still had some of that in him this year when he played against the Giants. However when he became the full time starter later in the year Gibbs and co. had, the second eagles game aside, coached that out of him.

His second year in the league Ramsey would have games where he was 22/53 for 373 yards 3 TD's and 3 INT's. This season he would be 18/25 for 167 yards maybe 1 TD. That's a complete 180 in scheme right there. If he can go from being a gunslinger to a gamemanager who can complete a few deep balls now and then, this team can do some great things this year.

colkurtz
03-25-2005, 06:16 PM
It's the "hard-to-coach" things I'm worried about:

Can he trully "check down" past his first receiver?
Can he gain enough mobility to cut some of the sacks?
Can he "see" the openings in the defense and exploit them?
Can he find the open receiver and hit him with a touch pass?

We'll find out this season. Bouts of potential and a few good games, do not qualify you as a top-ranked NFL QB. You've got to earn that the hard way.

BIGSEF3
03-25-2005, 06:29 PM
Can he trully "check down" past his first receiver?
.....we will find out when we have receivers who get open on a consistent basis and an offensive line that gives the quarterback more than 3 seconds.

Can he gain enough mobility to cut some of the sacks?
....with an improved line, it will be less of an issue. ramsey doesnt run around well, but he is good at "ducking and dodging" to bide time while a receiver gets open.

Can he "see" the openings in the defense and exploit them?
....that comes with experience. i think he used to be fairly good at that under spurrier, but he was almost too cautious or too reckless last year. he would either over- or under-compensate. he was obviously thinking too much. i chalk that up to recovery from spurrier. i HOPE he improves, but this is the biggest issue i have with ramsey.

Can he find the open receiver and hit him with a touch pass?

....he did a nice shovel last year, but that is another area that truly needs improvement.

colkurtz
03-25-2005, 06:43 PM
Can he trully "check down" past his first receiver?
.....we will find out when we have receivers who get open on a consistent basis and an offensive line that gives the quarterback more than 3 seconds.

Can he gain enough mobility to cut some of the sacks?
....with an improved line, it will be less of an issue. ramsey doesnt run around well, but he is good at "ducking and dodging" to bide time while a receiver gets open.

Can he "see" the openings in the defense and exploit them?
....that comes with experience. i think he used to be fairly good at that under spurrier, but he was almost too cautious or too reckless last year. he would either over- or under-compensate. he was obviously thinking too much. i chalk that up to recovery from spurrier. i HOPE he improves, but this is the biggest issue i have with ramsey.

Can he find the open receiver and hit him with a touch pass?

....he did a nice shovel last year, but that is another area that truly needs improvement.

Hope you are right. With a "Top 5" defense, a premium offensive line, a very good ST squad and Portis/Betts ---- Bottom Line - Ramsey just has to be good........................

Bigskinbauer
03-25-2005, 08:49 PM
yes you are he is no farve

farve is known for continous play and ramsey was injured last season even though that is not his fault he now can never be a farve, peyton is the next farve

2Cooley
03-25-2005, 09:17 PM
i disagree.

we have a quarterback with a strong arm who is most comfortable in the shotgun.

our running backs are nearly identical in size and style. (clinton is an inch shorter and 9 lbs lighter)

we have a solid offensive line that will protect our quarterback and allow our running back to... run.

we have a receiving corps that is built on speed.

we do not have the big names of the colts (meaning patrick ramsey is no payton manning.) but the personnel we have chosen have similar qualities as their counterparts on the colts. now, our past STYLE OF PLAY is the furthest thing from the colts. but the personnel we have best-suited to run a colts-style offense, in my opinion.


our QB has a strong arm but has shown no ability to make smart plays when it counts

9lbs is a lot when you consider they are the same speed

we have not seen what this line can do it could be worst

redwolf1218
03-25-2005, 09:43 PM
Thank you..that sums up my thoughts
people also forget that Ramsey was on crutches recovering from foot surgery during the early QB mini camps, so it was either Brunell or Hass to run the first team offense.

redwolf1218
03-25-2005, 09:54 PM
I'd like to see the shotgun, if for nothing else than to give the defense a different look. I'm personally really curious whether Joe will run it on occassion this season as he modernizes and opens up his offense.

So Redwolf - I thought it was a good idea on occassion, when you're third and long and everyone knows you're going to pass anyway. Gibbs has got to upgrade this offense and open up the secondary through a real passing attack - which will greatly improve the run.
thanks. it just came to mind because Ramsey does not have the quickest feet in the world, and he did it in college,as did Leftwich in college, and at Jx with Mularky. Portis could still be in the backfield with him. shotgun does not necessarily mean empty backfield. if it's dangerous, then i dont see why they would use the shuffle pass but not the shotgun. that little shuffle pass in the middle of everything scares the hell out of me everytime i see it, but it can be effective. as many times as our guys fumbled a normal snap under center, i cant believe the shotgun would be any more dangerous.

Warrior 007
03-25-2005, 09:56 PM
Yada Yada Yada ......you guys are fooling yourselves. All I hear is hope. You guys have seen flashes from ramsey, the same flashes we saw from, Gus (Headbanger) Ferrotte, Trent (sellout) Green, and Tim (Hot Wife) Hasselback. YOU GUYS are looking at him with hopeful eyes because you and I know if he stinks the joint up, its curtains for the skins this season. He showed nothing last year and did ok in a college coach system. Stop sucking up to Ramsey because we don't have a good back up plan. Draft a QB with 3rd or 5th pick and call it a day!

:sfight:

redwolf1218
03-25-2005, 10:06 PM
Yada Yada Yada ......you guys are fooling yourselves. All I hear is hope. You guys have seen flashes from ramsey, the same flashes we saw from, Gus (Headbanger) Ferrotte, Trent (sellout) Green, and Tim (Hot Wife) Hasselback. YOU GUYS are looking at him with hopeful eyes because you and I know if he stinks the joint up, its curtains for the skins this season. It showed nothing last year and did ok in a college coach system. Stop sucking up to Ramsey because we don't have a good back up plan. Draft a QB with 3rd or 5th pick and call it a day!

:sfight:
my hopefullness is based on the fact that he is one of the smartest, hardest working QB's in the league, or he would not have graduated 3rd in his class at Tulane with a double major in accounting and finance, and he has one of the strongest arms in the league, and he finished the last 5 games of last season with over 68% completion percentage which included facing the Steelers and Eagles defense. besides, he doesnt have to be Brett Favre, Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson have also won superbowls.

2Cooley
03-25-2005, 10:10 PM
my hopefullness is based on the fact that he is one of the smartest, hardest working QB's in the league, or he would not have graduated 3rd in his class at Tulane with a double major in accounting and finance, and he has one of the strongest arms in the league, and he finished the last 5 games of last season with over 68% completion percentage which included facing the Steelers and Eagles defense. besides, he doesnt have to be Brett Favre, Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson have also won superbowls.


68% the way we were running our offense is not impressive at all, just because he is book smart does not mean he is field smart cause from what i have seen he is not. I hope ramsey proves me wrong but to me he sucks and rather than look at the 68% look how many of thoes games he won

tbfoster1
03-25-2005, 10:11 PM
my hopefullness is based on the fact that he is one of the smartest, hardest working QB's in the league, or he would not have graduated 3rd in his class at Tulane with a double major in accounting and finance, and he has one of the strongest arms in the league, and he finished the last 5 games of last season with over 68% completion percentage which included facing the Steelers and Eagles defense. besides, he doesnt have to be Brett Favre, Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson have also won superbowls.

good post rewolf
http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/happy/2/happy72.gif

redwolf1218
03-25-2005, 10:14 PM
68% the way we were running our offense is not impressive at all, just because he is book smart does not mean he is field smart cause from what i have seen he is not. I hope ramsey proves me wrong but to me he sucks and rather than look at the 68% look how many of thoes games he won
i purposefully chose to look at the 68%. it's a team game. if he connected on 68% then he was doing his part efficiently. he did not personally win or lose those games.

2Cooley
03-25-2005, 10:20 PM
i purposefully chose to look at the 68%. it's a team game. if he connected on 68% then he was doing his part efficiently. he did not personally win or lose those games.


but you would think the qb would be able to lead the team to atleast 1 win and he could not

redwolf1218
03-25-2005, 10:22 PM
but you would think the qb would be able to lead the team to atleast 1 win and he could not
18 for 21 was pretty good.

2Cooley
03-25-2005, 10:23 PM
18 for 21 was pretty good.


but he did not win us one game

Warrior 007
03-25-2005, 10:26 PM
68% the way we were running our offense is not impressive at all, just because he is book smart does not mean he is field smart cause from what i have seen he is not. I hope ramsey proves me wrong but to me he sucks and rather than look at the 68% look how many of thoes games he won

Amen !! HELLO He has stunk the joint up. The kid does have heart. But he has not been able to put it all together. Evander Holleyfield is like 50 years old still boxing, he shows heart by getting his brain beat out everytime he gets in the ring. BUT How many fights has he won, NONE. Point: Ramsey has heart but that doesn't win games if you can't put it all together.

:weak:

COUNCILMAN
03-25-2005, 10:28 PM
I really believe he will be the next Favre, or the closest thing to him. He is tough (playing with Spurrier's "line" scheme), strong arm, and already has a couple game winning drives for the Redskins in his short career. We don't need to waste a draft pick on a QB, Ramsey just needs to work with the new recievers and I'm sure he can get the job done.

The only thing Patrick has in common with Favre is that they are both 6'2 and about the same weight.

Favre can move and Patrick is clumsy, in fact he looks like he is pulling something when he is running.

Favre has a great arm...as does Patrick..but Brett can toss a pass or lob a pass and Patrick has only 2 speeds: fast and extremely fast.

Favre makes things happen where there is nothing. Patrick makes nothing happen when there is an open receiver.

Favre spots open receivers as though he was clairvoyant. Patrick stares at an open receiver as though he is studying a math problem.

I don't mean to be hard on Patrick but after all he has had 3 years and he still has not shown that he can be great. He looks good in some ways but GAWD he seems like he is slooooooow. He just can't seem to recognize formations, schemes, blitzes, and where his open receiver is.

Maybe he will learn all that in the next 5 months. I hope so.

redwolf1218
03-25-2005, 10:31 PM
but he did not win us one game
it's a team game.

2Cooley
03-25-2005, 10:35 PM
it's a team game.


all the best or even decent qb's could win games for their team when they need them the teams puts the game in his hands and he throws it away. I agree it is a team game but that did not stop portis from winning portis from winning 5 games

whitskins
03-25-2005, 10:38 PM
all the best or even decent qb's could win games for their team when they need them the teams puts the game in his hands and he throws it away. I agree it is a team game but that did not stop portis from winning portis from winning 5 games

Who won the Minnesota game then? Patrick played great that day.

2Cooley
03-25-2005, 10:38 PM
Who won the Minnesota game then? Patrick played great that day.


the D won that game and betts would be the runner up and "Patrick played great" agaist the worst D in the NFC

whitskins
03-25-2005, 10:41 PM
the D won that game

Not without 218 yards and 2 TDs they don't. Ramsey had a 100.8 QB rating that game, he played well for us, he isn't Favre but give him a little credit.

2Cooley
03-25-2005, 10:43 PM
Not without 218 yards and 2 TDs they don't. Ramsey had a 100.8 QB rating that game, he played well for us, he isn't Favre but give him a little credit.

I give credit where credit is due and ramsey deserves none

COUNCILMAN
03-25-2005, 10:44 PM
the D won that game and betts would be the runner up and "Patrick played great" agaist the worst D in the NFC

I want to take it a step farther. I want to credit Garnell Wilds and Ade Jimoh with tremedous games. I have been hard on Jimoh before but those 2 guys blanketed Moss and other receivers that day and I can't say enough about their performances. With weak corners Moss may have had 200 yards, but he simply was not allowed to get space. He was covered like a blanket for 80-90 percent of the game.

whitskins
03-25-2005, 10:44 PM
I give credit where credit is due and ramsey deserves none

You're right, 19 of 22 completions with 3 TDs, 0 INTs and a 139 QB rating in the 2nd NYG game doesn't deserve any credit either. I need a little bit more here before I'm ready to deem Ramsey "sucks" and deserves no credit as you've stated.

2Cooley
03-25-2005, 10:45 PM
I want to take it a step farther. I want to credit Garnell Wilds and Ade Jimoh with tremedous games. I have been hard on Jimoh before but those 2 guys blanketed Moss and other receivers that day and I can't say enough about their performances. With weak corners Moss may have had 200 yards, but he simply was not allowed to get space. He was covered like a blanket for 80-90 percent of the game.

while ramsey was throwing picks to DT's

2Cooley
03-25-2005, 10:48 PM
You're right, 19 of 22 completions with 3 TDs, 0 INTs and a 139 QB rating in the 2nd NYG game doesn't deserve any credit either. I need a little bit more here before I'm ready to deem Ramsey "sucks" and deserves no credit as you've stated.


the D held them to 7 points and we had a very good running game but if it makes you feel any better than ramsey won that game for us

whitskins
03-25-2005, 10:50 PM
while ramsey was throwing picks to DT's

He threw one INT and two TDs and would have had a third on a 46 yard bomb if Jacobs hadn't been caught from behind at the one yard line, lining up Betts for a walk in TD. He's not Favre, but to claim he sucks makes no sense. The guy improved last season playing in a new offense after taking 10% of the practice snaps during the first half of the season.

If he can't take up step up in the next season he won't have anymore excuses but to simply claim he sucks because he never won us a game, when we won three games with him, all of which he had 100+ passer ratings, is false. The four games we lost with him he had passer ratings all in the 60s but three were against Pitt and Philly.

He needs to improve but he doesn't just suck and deserve no credit. Please...

whitskins
03-25-2005, 10:52 PM
the D held them to 7 points and we had a very good running game but if it makes you feel any better than ramsey won that game for us

He won it for us as much as anyone else did. You said the D won the game for us, I said not without Ramsey, meaning he deserves credit. But apparently we could have won the game with Ken Dorsey at QB...

2Cooley
03-25-2005, 10:56 PM
He threw one INT and two TDs and would have had a third on a 46 yard bomb if Jacobs hadn't been caught from behind at the one yard line, lining up Betts for a walk in TD. He's not Favre, but to claim he sucks makes no sense. The guy improved last season playing in a new offense after taking 10% of the practice snaps during the first half of the season.

If he can't take up step up in the next season he won't have anymore excuses but to simply claim he sucks because he never won us a game, when we won three games with him, all of which he had 100+ passer ratings, is false. The four games we lost with him he had passer ratings all in the 60s but three were against Pitt and Philly.

He needs to improve but he doesn't just suck and deserve no credit. Please...

well maybe you and I have a different meaning for the word "sucks" and all i am saying is Ramsey still has not showed up unless this is as good as it gets then we are in trouble

2Cooley
03-25-2005, 10:58 PM
He won it for us as much as anyone else did. You said the D won the game for us, I said not without Ramsey, meaning he deserves credit. But apparently we could have won the game with Ken Dorsey at QB...


exactly i am glad you see my point ramsey is doing a servicable job just about any QB execpt "you know who" could equal what ramsey is doing

whitskins
03-25-2005, 11:07 PM
exactly i am glad you see my point ramsey is doing a servicable job just about any QB execpt "you know who" could equal what ramsey is doing

I'm sorry but I don't see your point if your point is that Ramsey sucks and deserves no credit and certainly not if it is anyone could do as well besides Mark Brunell.

Yes, Ramsey needs to improve, that's obvious and I never said otherwise. I'm saying he played an integral role in our three wins in our last five games, all of which he finished with passer ratings over 100 points and deserves some credit for that, not statements like he sucks and never single handedly won a game for us. Who cares if he never single handedly won us a game? He played a large part in our last three wins and that's all any QB needs to do. How many games has Tom Brady won all alone?

I'm not trying to get up on the cross for Patrick b/c I am critical of him as well. I don't think he deserves to be annointed the next Favre but he doesn't deserve to be utterly panned either. He improved last season and if he continues to improve we'll be good b/c we have upgraded the offense around him as well.

COUNCILMAN
03-25-2005, 11:10 PM
Let me chime in between you 2. Ramsey is very serviceable. He makes an occasional mistake but he can AT LEAST fire in that occasional 20 yard rocket down the middle between 2 defenders. And if he just learns to read defenses a little better...not a lot...just a little better..this team can score 20 points per game and win 10 games.

I don't think we should argue over Ramsey because he is not Brett Favre. I mean....who is?

whitskins
03-25-2005, 11:15 PM
Let me chime in between you 2. Ramsey is very serviceable. He makes an occasional mistake but he can AT LEAST fire in that occasional 20 yard rocket down the middle between 2 defenders. And if he just learns to read defenses a little better...not a lot...just a little better..this team can score 20 points per game and win 10 games.

I don't think we should argue over Ramsey because he is not Brett Favre. I mean....who is?

I would agree with this. He is a QB with all the physical tools who has never played behind a particularly good o-line and has mental lapses/problems in recognizing the X's and O's of the game. I think he improved in this in limited time last year where he could have been another Jonathan Quinn after taking 10% of the snaps for half a season in a new offense. I was encouraged by how he played down the stretch. Couple that with the improvements in our offense and I have faith in him. If he lets me down then I am at the front of the first round quarterback bandwagon in 06 but right now I will argue claims that he sucks and does not deserve credit.

redwolf1218
03-25-2005, 11:21 PM
the QB has always gotten too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses. it's a team game, more-so than any other sport, IMO.

COUNCILMAN
03-25-2005, 11:26 PM
I would agree with this. He is a QB with all the physical tools who has never played behind a particularly good o-line and has mental lapses/problems in recognizing the X's and O's of the game. I think he improved in this in limited time last year where he could have been another Jonathan Quinn after taking 10% of the snaps for half a season in a new offense. I was encouraged by how he played down the stretch. Couple that with the improvements in our offense and I have faith in him. If he lets me down then I am at the front of the first round quarterback bandwagon in 06 but right now I will argue claims that he sucks and does not deserve credit.

Without questions Patrick does not SUCK. He actually is as good or better than David Carr who has been starting every game for 3 years now...and Patrick is BETTER than Joey Harrington, another 3 year starter who has been working with talent like Charles Rogers and Roy Williams....although Rogers gets injured at some point every year.

Patrick finally has speed receivers and a complete, competent offensive line, and A GREAT RUNNING BACK who is dedicating himself to be even better than 1300 yards. If Patrick doesn't lead this team to the playoffs this year, he is gone and he deserves to be. He is 1 season away from joining Heath Shuler in the real estate business. And I don't care if he panics or feels like he is forced to prove himself or not. He can do it or quit the business because this is his last chance.

Keino
03-26-2005, 10:26 AM
I don't think we should argue over Ramsey because he is not Brett Favre. I mean....who is?

Brett Favre.

Ramsey should never be compared to him unless we are drawing the conclusion that Ramsey is not even close to the QB that Brett Favre is.

Ramsey should be compared to guys like Carr and Harrington....Middle of the pack QB's because that's all he's shown himself to be.

redwolf1218
03-26-2005, 10:32 AM
Ramsey might end up more like Mark Rypien than Brett Favre.

bwparker
03-26-2005, 12:14 PM
Brett Favre.

Ramsey should never be compared to him unless we are drawing the conclusion that Ramsey is not even close to the QB that Brett Favre is.

Ramsey should be compared to guys like Carr and Harrington....Middle of the pack QB's because that's all he's shown himself to be.
There you go. Every one is in agreement:

Ramsey is a middle of the pack QB. He doesn't SUCK, he's not GREAT. He is middle of the pack.


I would also add that he has everything it takes to become better.

colkurtz
03-26-2005, 04:23 PM
There you go. Every one is in agreement:

Ramsey is a middle of the pack QB. He doesn't SUCK, he's not GREAT. He is middle of the pack.


I would also add that he has everything it takes to become better.

Great Arm
Very Limited Mobility [generous]
Smart
Not Good presently at checking down or finding the open reciever
Below Average Touch
Has played in some pretty horrible offenses (including last year); never has had a good OL
Has shown moments of brilliance and absolutely terrible play
Fifth from the bottom in QB rating in 2004

If he plays here past next season it will be because he has developed into an above average QB. I don't ever see him getting into the top 5 QBs in the league.