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View Full Version : A change of heart?..Hmm maybe


joethefan
03-28-2005, 01:02 PM
As I sit home relaxing (taking three days off, to return to work on thursday), I finally got some things done around the house like, brought another PS2, watch NFL Network, cleaned out some closets the wife has on the to do list, rearrange the Ballers Basement, with the official TEARING DOWN THE OF THE TOEVERNEOUS POSTER!!, got my two boys out the house, so I can have (APA) all playstation access for a couple of days... :lol1:

Well having said all that, It took me almost 1 hour to try to remember all the changes that have been made during this offseason. One thing that kind of surprised me, was the TE play of our TE's on Madden. I know this maybe a little farfetched, but It seemed like we weren't as strong a we should have been with the Blocking. Many DE's were getting to Portis pretty easily. Then I went back to some of the actual games of this year. I began to notice some things that weren't good. Learning, this kinda put a change in my mind about our TE position on the team. While Dustin has been focusing on Heath Miller, I know he's the best TE inthe draft, but I don't think we should use our 9 on a TE, but if we were to aquire a number 2 pick, i would say that we need to get a better pass catching, run blocking TE. Again, I am not on the Heath Miller bandwagon, but I do see that could be a need for us to upgrade.

Many of you, like myself, used to say that Cooley was all we needed. But a slobberknocker TE could truely help Portis get around the edges. Esp. on PS2.... :lol1: Just a thought

chrisbcbu
03-28-2005, 01:07 PM
I would be happy if we pick up Alex Smith(TE) in the 2nd round or maybe Kevin Everret in the 3rd or 4th round.

CNYSkinFan
03-28-2005, 01:07 PM
As I sit home relaxing (taking three days off, to return to work on thursday), I finally got some things done around the house like, brought another playstation, watch NFL Network, cleaned out some closets the wife has on the to do list, rearrange the Ballers Basement, with the official TEARING DOWN THE OF THE TOEVERNEOUS POSTER!!, got my two boys out the house, so I can have (APA) all playstation access for a couple of days... :lol1:

Well having said all that, It took me almost 1 hour to try to remember all the changes that have been made during this offseason. One thing that kind of surprised me, was the TE play of our TE's on Madden. I know this maybe a little farfetched, but It seemed like we weren't as strong a we should have been with the Blocking. Many DE's were getting to Portis. Then I went back to some of the actual games of this year. I began to notice some things that weren't good. Learning, this kinda put a change in my mind about our TE position on the team. While Dustin has been focusing on Heath Miller, I know he's the best TE inthe draft, but I don't think we should use our 9 on a TE, but if we were to aquire a number 2 pick, i would say that we need to get a better pass catching, run blocking TE. Again, I am not on the Heath Miller bandwagon, but I do see that could be a need for us to upgrade.

Many of you, like myself, used to say that Cooley was all we needed. But a slobberknocker TE could truely help Portis get around the edges. Esp. on PS2.... :lol1: Just a thought

welcome to the dark side wua hahahahahahaa


Seriously I am on the Heath Miller BAndwagon. However I am not sure #9 is where I would pick him. I would like the idea of Williams being there at #9, trading down to maybe Carolina at #14 pick up a second and pick up Miller at #14 and a cb with the second rounder. That is my dream scenario.


And I did not get on the Heath Miller bandwagon right away, but after someone mentioned the possibility on this forum I went and researched it and it makes sense. Man we have some great fans on these forums with so much knowledge.

CowboyKilla
03-28-2005, 01:08 PM
I agree a slobberknocker is needed and Heath Miller is NOT that guy. Hey if we draft the guy I hope he does great but the BLocking will not improve with him in the fold. Four letters SOFT.

CNYSkinFan
03-28-2005, 01:09 PM
I agree a slobberknocker is needed and Heath Miller is NOT that guy. Hey if we draft the guy I hope he does great but the BLocking will not improve with him in the fold. Four letters SOFT.

I disagree....13 lineman of the week awards does not indicate soft to me. He is a MUCH better blocker then Royal and a better pass catcher. Heath Miller is an upgrade. Just whether he is worth a first rounder is the question.

joethefan
03-28-2005, 01:13 PM
welcome to the dark side wua hahahahahahaa

Man we have some great fans on these forums with so much knowledge.


Were you talking about me?.... :lol1: Not on the Darkside just yet Dustin...but now I do understand your stand alot better now than ever before....

ItchySkin
03-28-2005, 01:15 PM
Joe... I suggest you play NFL2k5...its a lot easier to run. The running game in Madden no matter what team you use is difficult and maybe even less realistic.
Its a shame EA bought all of the NFL rights for the next 5-7 years so we're all stuck with canadian-made maddens (no offense intended). :banghead:

Kanman21
03-28-2005, 01:17 PM
Finally, CNY convinced me that Heath Miller would be a fine choice. If he blocks as well as he did in college, then I don't see why we shouldnt pick him. However, as some have said, picking him at 9 is too high. If we can't trade down, then we'll have to go CB or WR. But, Miller would be a solid addition provided his blocking is as good as advertised.

whitskins
03-28-2005, 01:17 PM
The Heath Miller bandwagon is legit. Miller and Rogers are the ideal candidates to draft after a trade down. I want Miller cause I want to draft offense this year. Miller is a serious upgrade.

joethefan
03-28-2005, 01:19 PM
Joe... I suggest you play NFL2K5...its a lot easier to run. The running game in Madden no matter what team you use is difficult and maybe even less realistic.
Its a shame EA bought all of the NFL rights for the next 5-7 years so we're all stuck with canadian-made maddens (no offense intended). :banghead:
Itchy, I don't really care for NFL2K5. The men just don't look realistic to me...sorry.

NamVet4
03-28-2005, 01:21 PM
Heath Miller at #9 is a big risk, financially and otherwise!
In the 2nd or 3rd round we levelout our risk....
just my 2 cents....

DUCKIN_TACKLERS
03-28-2005, 01:21 PM
welcome to the dark side wua hahahahahahaa


Seriously I am on the Heath Miller BAndwagon. However I am not sure #9 is where I would pick him. I would like the idea of Williams being there at #9, trading down to maybe Carolina at #14 pick up a second and pick up Miller at #14 and a cb with the second rounder. That is my dream scenario.


And I did not get on the Heath Miller bandwagon right away, but after someone mentioned the possibility on this forum I went and researched it and it makes sense. Man we have some great fans on these forums with so much knowledge.
Was i the one who started your bandwagon rolling... Dosent matter i would love to come out of this draft with a TE like Miller.. TEs are changing the face of offenses.Seriously does San Diego even sniff the playoffs without a guy named Antonio Gates. Ramsey could Develop nicely like Brees with a monster Creating Mismatches like only a TE can. Besides an Elite Reciever no one can Change the passing game like a TE and as a Bonus a TE can help the Running game by taking an Extra defender out of the box or he can blow one out of the box with a vicious Block.
And although I was one of the original people on the Miller Bandwagon. Id still take any of these Guys.
1 MIller
2.Alex Smith if he gained 20lbs
3 Kevin Everett
4. Alex Holmes

Skinz4lyfe
03-28-2005, 01:29 PM
Yea, JTF I'm totally w/you on getting a "Slobberknocker/pass catcher" but I'm not sure how we'll do it and I don't think Heath Miller is that guy. A pass catching TE can change the complexion of a game but I think the greater need is that Slobberknocker that Gibbs would emphasize. A side note, believe me that blocking TE helps on Madden because Portis get twice the yardage.

Patrick
03-28-2005, 01:35 PM
Heath Miller at #9 is a big risk, financially and otherwise!
In the 2nd or 3rd round we levelout our risk....
just my 2 cents....

I don't like Miller @ the #9 either .......... AND if I were going for a TE he be the one I'd pick but the reason I don't like him there is because TE is NOT that high of a priority - MAYBE after we get a CB, WR, DE, MLB, to fill more glaring holes. ........... Now if we end up with Miller for some reason - I won't be as upset as if we'd picked KWII last year. ....... We'll know in 26 days!!!

joethefan
03-28-2005, 01:44 PM
I won't be as upset as if we'd picked KWII last year. ....... We'll know in 26 days!!!

He Patrick I bet you this...If we did take Miller at 9...KWII would be pissed again and go to the media and say "I don't know why Gibbs took him, he lied to me. He looked me right in my face and said that he was taking me, cause Imma soldier"... :lol1:

wave6ten
03-28-2005, 01:45 PM
Duckin......I don't think Heath is anywhere close to being on the level of Antonio Gates. While I think he would be an upgrade for us I just don't think he is in the same class as the elite TEs in the game. I think with all of the success of Tight Ends in the NFL lately teams will start overemphasize drafting TEs in the draft and you will start to see some busts due to lack of scouting and draft happy GMs looking for the next Antonio Gates, Heap, Gonzales etc....With Heath Millers injusry (sports hernia) and him not being able to even workout until miniccamps in May...I think it would be crazy giving Miller a look with any pick in the teens...#20 would be more realistic to me.

joethefan
03-28-2005, 01:48 PM
Duckin......I don't think Heath is anywhere close to being on the level of Antonio Gates. While I think he would be an upgrade for us I just don't think he is in the same class as the elite TEs in the game. I think with all of the success of Tight Ends in the NFL lately teams will start overemphasize drafting TEs in the draft and you will start to see some busts due to lack of scouting and draft happy GMs looking for the next Antonio Gates, Heap, Gonzales etc....With Heath Millers injusry (sports hernia) and him not being able to even workout until miniccamps in May...I think it would be crazy giving Miller a look with any pick in the teens...#20 would be more realistic to me.

That injury may be something to reacur...which could be an issue..leter on. I wouldn't want to take a chance like that. We all almost swallowed our tongue's when Sean Sprained his knee on the first day of practice...and that wasn't a previous issue..but with this, it may be an issue.

Patrick
03-28-2005, 01:55 PM
He Patrick I bet you this...If we did take Miller at 9...KWII would be pissed again and go to the media and say "I don't know why Gibbs took him, he lied to me. He looked me right in my face and said that he was taking me, cause Imma soldier"... :lol1:

LMAO ............. I hear you!!!!

X-Factor13
03-28-2005, 02:01 PM
As a very highly ranked madden player, i'll tell you that if you can't get big runs with cport your tryin the wrong holes. Bounce almost everything outside (especially hb counter out of I form) and your set. If anyone needs more help with this let me reccomend the best madden site on the web www.vgsportsinc.com/forums.

I'd take heath miller any day as long as we trade down. We don't just need a "slobberknocker" like you guys say, we need someone who can catch the ball as well. I know we have cooley and all, but trust me here, we need a REAL TE.

Also i think alex smith is a great choice as well (if he came out of stanford like i think he did, good passing offense there)

Why haven't we tried to fix this in free agency though? Isnt marcus pollard still up for grabs?

dj_stouty
03-28-2005, 02:06 PM
Today on NFL Sirius Radio, Dan Reeves said Heath Miller was an exceptional blocker at UVA in 2004...and he made great blocks off the line as well as downfield. Reeves was in the broadcast booth for a few UVA games...and researched the team a lot last year.

Just another educated opinion the Miller's blocking ability. Not everyone thinks he is a dud.

redwolf1218
03-28-2005, 02:11 PM
it would be easier to find a great receiving tightend who is not a great blocker...or a great blocking TE who is not a great receiver...than it would be to find a TE who excels at both. Miller is above average at both, even if it is possible to pick apart either part of his game. he's well-rounded in both blocking and receiving, which is kind-of rare, and which would seem to be qualities that would fit our scheme.

RoanokeSkin
03-28-2005, 02:24 PM
I agree a slobberknocker is needed and Heath Miller is NOT that guy. Hey if we draft the guy I hope he does great but the BLocking will not improve with him in the fold. Four letters SOFT.


I have five letters for you CRAZY.... Heath is not soft, he is a tank with great hands

whitskins
03-28-2005, 02:27 PM
Today on NFL Sirius Radio, Dan Reeves said Heath Miller was an exceptional blocker at UVA in 2004...and he made great blocks off the line as well as downfield. Reeves was in the broadcast booth for a few UVA games...and researched the team a lot last year.

Just another educated opinion the Miller's blocking ability. Not everyone thinks he is a dud.

I haven't even heard one football person say that his blocking ability is poor. I've heard it described as something he should work to improve on. But for some reason some people read stuff like that and interpreted it as him being useless as a blocker. Don't know how that happened.

BandWagon
03-28-2005, 02:29 PM
I think the question that everyone is bouncing around, but not hitting is this....

Will Miller's skills be under utilized in our scheme?

joethefan
03-28-2005, 02:34 PM
I think the question that everyone is bouncing around, but not hitting is this....

Will Miller's skills be under utilized in our scheme?

Very good question, I think that getting or and TE on that level would add another weapon for Ramsey. The more weapons we have, the mopre teams will have to scheme giving them an oppotunity to miss something by which we can take advantage of.

OCSkinzFan
03-28-2005, 02:38 PM
I have been way up on USC's Alex Holmes. He's the best blocking TE in the draft and he has great hands; he's just not that fast. He's also very smart and has been working in the off season with Eric Dickerson.

Has semi-soft hands, extending them properly to secure the ball away from the body's frame His best ability is getting to the ball in a crowd, as he shows very good determination to get in and out of traffic to gain additional yardage Shows good vision and the ability to adjust to the ball in the air Is a load to bring down after the catch in one-on-one situations Does a very good job of locking on, driving and sustaining his blocks at the line of scrimmage and will usually have as many knockdowns as the offensive linemen during a game

We should be able to get him in the third round. I think he could be a Cooley like steal.

Link (http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/holmes_alex)

BandWagon
03-28-2005, 02:39 PM
Very good question, I think that getting or and TE on that level would add another weapon for Ramsey. The more weapons we have, the mopre teams will have to scheme giving them an oppotunity to miss something by which we can take advantage of.

Exactly...if the scheme stays as it is, Miller is an awfully expensive slobberknocker that won't catch too many balls. IF on the other hand, they alter the scheme to throw more to the TE...on a more equal level with Cooley...then maybe it's worth it. Tough for us to speculate on.

OCSkinzFan
03-28-2005, 02:43 PM
Exactly...if the scheme stays as it is, Miller is an awfully expensive slobberknocker that won't catch too many balls. IF on the other hand, they alter the scheme to throw more to the TE...on a more equal level with Cooley...then maybe it's worth it. Tough for us to speculate on.

Miller's not "all that" as a blocker either, my guess is no better than Cooley was as a rook. He's lighter than Cooley too.

joethefan
03-28-2005, 02:45 PM
Exactly...if the scheme stays as it is, Miller is an awfully expensive slobberknocker that won't catch too many balls. IF on the other hand, they alter the scheme to throw more to the TE...on a more equal level with Cooley...then maybe it's worth it. Tough for us to speculate on.

Yea true tough to really tell, but I think we can upgrade that position. Just not too sure on Miller, just had surgery and to me that's too much of a risk to take at 9 or even in the 1st round. I do think we can get a decent TE on the second though.

joethefan
03-28-2005, 02:46 PM
He's lighter than Cooley too.

Are you sure?....

MIAboyz26,36,83
03-28-2005, 02:48 PM
we can get a good TE in the second round there's Alex Holmes/USC, Alex Smith/stanford,and Kevin Everret/UM. tHERE ALL AROUNG IT'S JUST A MATTER OF LOOKING.

OCSkinzFan
03-28-2005, 02:51 PM
I have five letters for you CRAZY.... Heath is not soft, he is a tank with great hands

Tank? What have you been sniffin...er reading?
Can still stand to add some weight and get stronger...Doesn't have elite speed...Is not a dominating blocker...

Link (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerprofiles/te/heathmiller.html)

OCSkinzFan
03-28-2005, 02:52 PM
we can get a good TE in the second round there's Alex Holmes/USC, Alex Smith/stanford,and Kevin Everret/UM. tHERE ALL AROUNG IT'S JUST A MATTER OF LOOKING.

We don't have a second round pick.

joethefan
03-28-2005, 02:56 PM
Miller's not "all that" as a blocker either, my guess is no better than Cooley was as a rook. He's lighter than Cooley too.

Yea, I checked is about 10lb's lighter.....

MIAboyz26,36,83
03-28-2005, 02:58 PM
Joe was up man i saw that you don't think theres good TE'S in the 2nd round. well there's Alex Holmes/USC, Alex Smith/ Stanford, Kevin Everret/ UM.

whitskins
03-28-2005, 02:59 PM
Exactly...if the scheme stays as it is, Miller is an awfully expensive slobberknocker that won't catch too many balls. IF on the other hand, they alter the scheme to throw more to the TE...on a more equal level with Cooley...then maybe it's worth it. Tough for us to speculate on.

I think the scheme has to change somehow b/c we don't have a receiver like Coles to eat up 90+ catches and take all those short hitch routes. If we drafted Miller I would think we'd use him in the capacity of a possession WR, where he's eating up a lot of those catches that Coles used to make but Moss probably won't.

I'm just making an educated guess but even if we don't draft Miller or upgrade at TE I think our scheme will have to change some what just on account of our two new WRs and their abilities.

joethefan
03-28-2005, 03:00 PM
Joe was up man i saw that you don't think theres good TE'S in the 2nd round. well there's Alex Holmes/USC, Alex Smith/ Stanford, Kevin Everret/ UM.


Miami, I didn't say that?....I said I wasn't on the Heath Miller Bandwagon...

BandWagon
03-28-2005, 03:38 PM
Miller's not "all that" as a blocker either, my guess is no better than Cooley was as a rook. He's lighter than Cooley too.

Yeah that was my perception as well....making it an even bigger stretch that we go after him. My personal preference would be to go after some big monster blocker in the later rounds and leave Miller alone.

Meatsnack
03-28-2005, 04:02 PM
Duckin......I don't think Heath is anywhere close to being on the level of Antonio Gates. While I think he would be an upgrade for us I just don't think he is in the same class as the elite TEs in the game. I think with all of the success of Tight Ends in the NFL lately teams will start overemphasize drafting TEs in the draft and you will start to see some busts due to lack of scouting and draft happy GMs looking for the next Antonio Gates, Heap, Gonzales etc...


I hear Karl Malone is looking for work...

Coach Joe Gibbs: We're real excited about bringing an athlete of this caliber to the Redskins. We think he can really help us out on the offensive side of the ball. At 6'9" and 280#, Karl can really run and create mismatches in the redzone and in the seams. Karl?

KM: Karl Malone can drive a truck. Karl Malone is greatest power forward of all time. Karl Malone can catch a football, no problem. Karl Malone will be hunting with Patrick and Jansen after practice.

JG: Uhhhh...Thanks, Karl.

skinfanatic
03-28-2005, 04:22 PM
i am w/ duckin on this one. williams at 9 if available, otherwise trade down for miller. i wont get into the argument again, its been said a bunch by me and duckin. ive watched miller progress at uva. any doubts you have, watch uva vs THE U game. soft hands (had a sick one handed grab for a td.) good speed for a big boy. hes also a decent blocker (better than shockey and kellen coming out.)

Meatsnack
03-28-2005, 04:33 PM
I don't think Robert Royal is a great choice for us at TE. However, the coaching staff hasn't even sniffed at it in FA. So, if it is a priority at all, which Gibbs has said it is not, they have been planning all along to address it in the draft. However, this is pretty much universally regarded as an abysmally weak TE draft.

After Heath Miller there is no player that everyone agrees on and even with Miller there are some questions, primarily speed. Yes, Alex Holmes has some things to offer, but at 6'1", he is a problem. It affects his arm length as a pass blocker and his match-ups in the passing game. Alex Smith was never really asked to block, so that is a total question mark and he doesn't really have scary speed to create separation vs. NFL LBs.

I have advocated for some time taking a guy like Brian Casey out of K-State. K-State is a run-first offense and Casey is a big, powerful run blocker. He will also be there in round 7 or as an UDFA because he didn't catch the ball very much. He is one dimensional in a way that favors the way Gibbs has traditionally used TEs. Do I think Gibbs could find a way to use a versatile TE? Well, sure, he did coach Kellen Winslow Sr. I just don't see a guy other than MW who could be used that way (Matt Jones on the outside).

RoanokeSkin
03-28-2005, 06:15 PM
Tank? What have you been sniffin...er reading?


Link (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerprofiles/te/heathmiller.html)


I have watched every game the guy has played in for the last three years. He is far from soft. If we draft him and you see what he can do, I dont think you will be disappointed.

GoDannyBoy
03-28-2005, 06:51 PM
Yea, ...I think the greater need is that Slobberknocker that Gibbs would emphasize. A side note, believe me that blocking TE helps on Madden because Portis get twice the yardage.

Yea but does Gibbs play Madden?

OCSkinzFan
03-28-2005, 06:55 PM
I have watched every game the guy has played in for the last three years. He is far from soft. If we draft him and you see what he can do, I dont think you will be disappointed.

I never said he was soft I just questioned the "tank" comment. "Tank" is usually reserved for strong blockers. I gues you don't agree with the link I provided that said he's a weak blocker. Fee free to address this.

Can still stand to add some weight and get stronger...Doesn't have elite speed...Is not a dominating blocker...

GoDannyBoy
03-28-2005, 06:59 PM
I have been way up on USC's Alex Holmes. He's the best blocking TE in the draft and he has great hands; he's just not that fast. He's also very smart and has been working in the off season with Eric Dickerson.

We should be able to get him in the third round. I think he could be a Cooley like steal.

pasted from your link, he shouldn't have any trouble picking up the player book. I don't think he will last though the second.

"A well-educated athlete who can speak several languages, including Greek and Latin"

OCSkinzFan
03-28-2005, 07:00 PM
pasted from your link, he shouldn't have any trouble picking up the player book. I don't think he will last though the second.

"A well-educated athlete who can speak several languages, including Greek and Latin"

Is he worth the trade up from thrid to get him?

GoDannyBoy
03-28-2005, 07:01 PM
Reminds me of a comment by Beathard about a WR that he just signed and when asked about him said he could play seven musical instruments.

Although I don't remember the guy doing very much.