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OCSkinzFan
03-28-2005, 04:01 PM
I've heard from some that they think Arrington is over rated.
Washington on the other hand arguably had a Probowl year.

Who do you think will be the better OLB next year? Is Arrington still living on past college glory (The Leap). Is he only a top shelf OLB that sometimes gets out of position and sometimes makes great plays? While Washington plays his roll and never gets beat.

Let me know.

C-7
03-28-2005, 04:05 PM
I think they are both great, physically talented linebackers; Arrington is probably more gifted, but Washington has shown that he can get better and better, while Lavar has left a lot to desire and commits many stupid penalties. But together they are probably the best outside linebackers in the league.

whitskins
03-28-2005, 04:05 PM
I'll still take Arrington. The one year this dude actually had a real defensive coordinator he had a truly monster year. He makes mental mistakes sometimes but he was consistently great under Marvin Lewis and I expect even more under GW.

He is called overrated but I think a lot of this stems from his pre-draft hype as "The Next Lawrence Taylor". I think if he stays healthy next year he gets 12 sacks in his sleep.

What I think is for sure though is that together, Arrington and Washington should both have their best seasons of their careers.

Redskin006
03-28-2005, 04:07 PM
Washington is better all-around. He has more responsibilities being that he is on the strongside so he has to cover the run, curls, and of course the TE. Arrington is more of a pass-rushing linebacker who also knows how to play the run well. He doesn't cover the curls as well as Washington. They both will have good years, but they play two different positions and have two different roles in this defense. So, it will be hard to judge who will have a better year (as long as they both are healthy and play all 16 or even 15 games).

danny's stogie
03-28-2005, 04:09 PM
Washington is better all-around. He has more responsibilities being that he is on the strongside so he has to cover the run, curls, and of course the TE. Arrington is more of a pass-rushing linebacker who also knows how to play the run well. He doesn't cover the curls as well as Washington. They both will have good years, but they play two different positions and have two different roles in this defense. So, it will be hard to judge who will have a better year (as long as they both are healthy and play all 16 or even 15 games).

Good assessment. Thats what I was thinking...they're both great, but they play different roles so it's hard to tell who's better. But comparing MW on the strong side to LA when he played strong side I'd have to give the edge to MW.

BandWagon
03-28-2005, 04:17 PM
I was so incredibly delighted in how well Washington worked out for us, it would be hard to vote for Arrington. What I really want to see is how much better they each do as result of the other guy being on the field. With no offense to Lemar, it would have been interesting to see how Lavar would have done, healthy, playing the weakside. He could have been a monster!

Meatsnack
03-28-2005, 04:43 PM
I agree with Danny's Stogie, LaVar (playing out of position) is not as good at the Sam as Washington. LaVar is a physiological freak. He can do things other people can't do. He can also blow the occasional assignement. The problem is finding a coach who knows how to use his unusual capabilities.

In LaVars first game back last year, I remember the hit he put on guard pulling around the end, he just leveled the guy. That was an "LT moment". Not many linebackers, if any, playing today can make that hit and blow up a play and an O-lineman at the same time. LaVar scares people and makes them go outside their comfort zone to account for him. That doesn't show up on a stats page but the effect is real.

So, to make a long story endless, I would take LaVar, barely, over Marcus. I repect Marcus' play tremendously but he is merely a very good LB. LaVar is a comicbook character.

Keino
03-28-2005, 05:05 PM
Im glad we have them both.

BTW - Marcus had a pro-bowl year. It's not even arguable.

BtwnDaTackles
03-28-2005, 05:14 PM
i thinl avar is the clasic case of a player thrown into a situation and he hasnt had a season to do what he does...and thats play outside linebacker.....Lets faceit lavar has played outside linebacker, inside backer, And Defensive end, this is the first year that he has actually been able to worry about his one position, you name me one LB that has success in his position, that has been used rigorously used like lavar....Ray Lewis has been at the mike ever suince he stepped in the league, we always know where to find Derek Brooks And Junior Seau when their on the field, Zack Thomas has never put his hand in the dirt either, i guess what i'm trying to say is that Lavar came into the NLF as an outside linebacker and he hasn't played the position for two seasons straight yet......

silverspring
03-28-2005, 05:16 PM
They are both good players but they are great in different ways.

Washington consistenly plays great - he is dependable, hard to find that.

Lavar brings the "Lavar Factor". It is an intangible, he can change a game with one play. The best tangible example is aikman...he retired him with a hit. One hard hit on a qb and it makes for 2 easy games a season. If he is 100% he is going to blow this league apart this year.

RoanokeSkin
03-28-2005, 05:40 PM
Im glad we have them both.

BTW - Marcus had a pro-bowl year. It's not even arguable.


Same here. And I was also wondering where the arguable portion of that comment came from.

ImmortalDragon
03-28-2005, 05:56 PM
What is "the leap"?

OCSkinzFan
03-28-2005, 05:59 PM
Same here. And I was also wondering where the arguable portion of that comment came from.
I was trying to insert some contention into the argurment. Like this:
So if Arrington was healthy, he would have gone to the PB instead of Washington?

2Cooley
03-28-2005, 06:01 PM
What is "the leap"?

someone has to have a vid... in college right when the qb called hike lavar would jump over the whole line and sack the qb... and this was a regular occurance. I think lavar is better just because of the fact that you have to game plain against him

PennSkinsFan
03-28-2005, 06:01 PM
Easy...

Potential: Arrington

Reality: Washington

Arrington has the potential to be a dominating LB, but like Ramsey, the "potential" just does not cut it anymore. Right now he is good, but shoudl be great.

Washington on the other hand...simply put, one line, A COMPLETE PLAYER

JoeJacksonTaylor28
03-28-2005, 06:04 PM
With the right coaching Marcus is awesome, but Arrington will be (IMO) a freak. I have to vote for my man LaVar.

LATrueRedskin
03-28-2005, 06:06 PM
I'll take LA. He was injured all of last season, so we don't really know what he can do in this Gregg Williams' system. He can be a dominant linebacker when healthy and in the same system for over a year, and can make the big play. I absolutely love Marcus (this is like picking Batman or Superman, either way you win), but I'll take LA and his freakish ability.

RoanokeSkin
03-28-2005, 06:07 PM
I was trying to insert some contention into the argurment. Like this:
So if Arrington was healthy, he would have gone to the PB instead of Washington?


I would think that if Arrington was healthy, Washington may have even been better. If Arrington is indeed the stud everyone thinks he is, then he will make the guys around him better.

Skins57
03-28-2005, 06:25 PM
Easy...

Potential: Arrington

Reality: Washington

Arrington has the potential to be a dominating LB, but like Ramsey, the "potential" just does not cut it anymore. Right now he is good, but shoudl be great.

Washington on the other hand...simply put, one line, A COMPLETE PLAYER


exactly how I feel

PennSkinsFan
03-28-2005, 06:38 PM
There has always been a lot of love on this forum for my fellow PSU Alum and no onelikes him more than me, but Lavar has to stop talking about how this is the year, stop talking about changing staffs and start focusing on his own game play. Lavar is overrated. He is overrated because he is hyped up so much but he has not delivered to the height of his reputation. Don't get me wrong, I am by no means saying he is not good, but he has not lived up to that monster type, LT type reputatuion that was afforded to him.

Now, Washington on the other hand, man, watching game to game to game last season, he was just simply awesome involved in most plays, crunching hits, and stopping drives. Washington deserved the pro bowl because he had a pro bowl year. Period. Right now, at present, the way things are, Marcus is the best Linebacker on the Redskins until Lavar proves that wrong.

LadyNRedskinsfan
03-28-2005, 06:47 PM
i love lavar and i love marcus.....but i still think LA has the highest potential. marcus has been more solid but lavar can make the bigger plays. i was hoping we could see the impact from him this year but he had to ga and get injured. there is no need to pick right now, so i just hope but have excellent years and help win us some games...

SkinsASchamps
03-28-2005, 07:28 PM
They are comepletly different. Lavar plays the weak side and is a blitzer/ speed backer. Marcus is strong side and is a run stuffer/ patient backer. it depends what you like more in your linebacker. Personally I dont know of anyone in the NFL who can hit quite like Lavar. ST may be close and they may be more but he is the best in my opinion. Marcus may be the best stron side playmaker in the NFL. What a Combination to have. As long as whoever we have playing the middle does it well this should be fun to watch.

joethefan
03-28-2005, 07:31 PM
i love lavar and i love marcus.....but i still think LA has the highest potential. marcus has been more solid but lavar can make the bigger plays. i was hoping we could see the impact from him this year but he had to ga and get injured. there is no need to pick right now, so i just hope but have excellent years and help win us some games...
Lady as mch as I admire you, I gotta go against your post. The reason why, is yes Lavar was hurt last year. But if you compare Marcus playing the Strong side and Lavar playing the stron side....Marcus clearly was more efficient and more consistent. Every time there was practically anything that took place this season on the strong side, Marcus was in the mix. Now I think the question we need to ask is.Will Lavar be consistant all year, without injury? That is the question. I know this as someone said recently, Lavar and Ramsey had better show up this year. I'm tired of all the celebration, and talking. Marcus came in here and in 1 year excelled as the No1 Linebacker to me. Marcus is also a sure tackler..one that I'll take any day over the fan favorite that is still trying to find himself...

guinness4health
03-28-2005, 07:33 PM
i don't think that you can honestly judge that until we see a full year under williams for arrington...

i think that arrington is the better of the two (even with his tendacy to freelance in past years)...

in short i think that washington is the more consistence of the two...but arrington is the type of guy that offensive coordinators have nightmares about!

SkinsASchamps
03-28-2005, 07:35 PM
i don't think that you can honestly judge that until we see a full year under williams for arrington...

i think that arrington is the better of the two (even with his tendacy to freelance in past years)...

in short i think that washington is the more consistence of the two...but arrington is the type of guy that offensive coordinators have nightmares about!

Offensive coordinators? TRY QBs. lol.

What was dallas' quaterbacks name?

suppitty
03-28-2005, 07:39 PM
Washington is better. Arrington is more capable of making the huge play, but he is also much more capable of missing an assignment and giving up a huge one. I remember is SPurrier's second year he blitzed on his own, leaving his assignment (FB Jim Finn) wide open down the sideline for a 40 yard gain which set up the Giants' game winning fg.

rskinsfan10
03-28-2005, 08:09 PM
As much as I love what Washington brought to the table this past season, alot of you are acting as if he has played at that level since he has been in the league. From my understanding, last year was the closest that he as ever gotten to even sniffing the Pro Bowl. While some of you contend that LA is overrated, many still ignore the fact that he has played out of position since he has been in the NFL. Maybe he is "overrated" by those that actually "rate" him because they recognize how good, or even great he could be if he had the opportunity to play the position that is natural to him.

joethefan
03-28-2005, 08:42 PM
As much as I love what Washington brought to the table this past season, alot of you are acting as if he has played at that level since he has been in the league. From my understanding, last year was the closest that he as ever gotten to even sniffing the Pro Bowl. While some of you contend that LA is overrated, many still ignore the fact that he has played out of position since he has been in the NFL. Maybe he is "overrated" by those that actually "rate" him because they recognize how good, or even great he could be if he had the opportunity to play the position that is natural to him.

That's like me telling my boss, that I don't do court reports to judges because that's not what I'm best at. But the true fact is that I do what my employer asks me to do and he expects me to learn it and do it well regardless of what my expertise is in. When Marvin asked Lavar to line up as a DE, he complained about it, although he was very effective and got 11 sacks that year. I think we should hold Lavar accountable just like anyone else on the team. And the fact that they still remained a dominant Defense without him doesn't sit well with me from his standpoint. Because cap or no cap, they all can be replaced. I'm glad that GW got the play from others while he was out. It showed me that he is not the leader of that D. It shows me that he's a piece of the puzzle, but how big the piece is, remains to be seen, regardless of how much money he's making.

rskinsfan10
03-28-2005, 09:08 PM
That's like me telling my boss, that I don't do court reports to judges because that's not what I'm best at. But the true fact is that I do what my employer asks me to do and he expects me to learn it and do it well regardless of what my expertise is in. When Marvin asked Lavar to line up as a DE, he complained about it, although he was very effective and got 11 sacks that year. I think we should hold Lavar accountable just like anyone else on the team. And the fact that they still remained a dominant Defense without him doesn't sit well with me from his standpoint. Because cap or no cap, they all can be replaced. I'm glad that GW got the play from others while he was out. It showed me that he is not the leader of that D. It shows me that he's a piece of the puzzle, but how big the piece is, remains to be seen, regardless of how much money he's making.

If it were that simple, then my rebuttal would be that the Redskins could have saved alot of money by simply not signing Washington. It would have been more cost effective to keep LA on the strong side and to plug someone else on the weak. For what it's worth, Armstead's cap hit wasn't really that much, so his release wasn't needed. Obviously, Williams was smart enough to recognize that LA would be better at his natural position. It would be wreckless for any employer to force someone to perform a duty that they weren't maybe their strongest, especially when other are available that could maybe do that task better, freeing that employee up to do what he does best, in turn making the overall company better.

I don't have a problem holding LA accountable, but who else on the team can you say played out of position since they have been here, other then Matt Bowen? And in Bowen's case, it was only for a year. Ramsey hasn't been asked to become an option QB to make a correllation(sp?)

Everyone is basing/critiquing LA on what he did in college, and how they figured it would carry over to the pros. Yet, he has been asked to do everything other then what he did in college since arriving here. Some of you simply aren't looking at the big picture IMO.

I don't think that anyone would argue that the D played well without LA, but if you think that Marshall can make the plays that LA can, then that is a bit over the top IMO. D with Marshall= great. D with a healthy LA= even greater.

Jimreaper007
03-28-2005, 09:11 PM
When Healthy and playing smart football Arrington is a bigger impact player.

Washington is more steady

whitskins
03-28-2005, 09:11 PM
I don't think that anyone would argue that the D played well without LA, but if you think that Marshall can make the plays that LA can, then that is a bit over the top IMO. D with Marshall= great. D with a healthy LA= even greater.

Yes, how many plays did we see last year where Marshall gave great effort but was just a step or two short of the QB, or a few inches away from batting the pass out of the air? With Lavar, those are big plays and turnovers. If Lavar stays healthy this defense will become lethal.

hail2skins
03-28-2005, 09:18 PM
I'd take the one that other teams would be discussing in their meeting. Where they're going "we want to know where he is at all times". I want the one that the QB is looking for as soon as he breaks the huddle. That is Lavar, not Washington. They both have their strenghts and weakness but I'd take Lavar over Washington any day.

joethefan
03-28-2005, 09:24 PM
If it were that simple, then my rebuttal would be that the Redskins could have saved alot of money by simply not signing Washington. It would have been more cost effective to keep LA on the strong side and to plug someone else on the weak. For what it's worth, Armstead's cap hit wasn't really that much, so his release wasn't needed. Obviously, Williams was smart enough to recognize that LA would be better at his natural position. It would be wreckless for any employer to force someone to perform a duty that they weren't maybe their strongest, especially when other are available that could maybe do that task better, freeing that employee up to do what he does best, in turn making the overall company better.

I don't have a problem holding LA accountable, but who else on the team can you say played out of position since they have been here, other then Matt Bowen? And in Bowen's case, it was only for a year. Ramsey hasn't been asked to become an option QB to make a correllation(sp?)

Everyone is basing/critiquing LA on what he did in college, and how they figured it would carry over to the pros. Yet, he has been asked to do everything other then what he did in college since arriving here. Some of you simply aren't looking at the big picture IMO.

I don't think that anyone would argue that the D played well without LA, but if you think that Marshall can make the plays that LA can, then that is a bit over the top IMO. D with Marshall= great. D with a healthy LA= even greater.

I really have not payed attention to Lavar's college years, even though I have a co-worker who works with me, has played with him in College and knows him well . But my concern and question is has he trully lived up to the hype.."The Next Ray-Ray". To me they cannot be mentioned in the same sentence. It amazes me how everyone is still on the Potential kick..but no one is on the accountablilty kick, which to me supersedes potential after 3 or 4 years...

Think about how the fans would have been on our FO if ST didn't pan out After 1 year? Even though he had rough start personally and took his hits with that...But we don't have time for a fourth year player that is supposed to be the next "LT", "Ray Ray" and anyone else as many of you fans put it, to come around. With all that money they are making, I could care less how many DC's he's had. I want him to do his job, whatever it may be. And be the effective force everyone has allegedly made him out to be.

joethefan
03-28-2005, 09:26 PM
When Healthy and playing smart football Arrington is a bigger impact player.

Washington is more steady

And may I add reliable....

joethefan
03-28-2005, 09:33 PM
I'd take the one that other teams would be discussing in their meeting. Where they're going "we want to know where he is at all times". I want the one that the QB is looking for as soon as he breaks the huddle. That is Lavar, not Washington. They both have their strenghts and weakness but I'd take Lavar over Washington any day.

If LA doesn't be careful, that person will be Sean Taylor.

hail2skins
03-28-2005, 09:36 PM
I really have not payed attention to Lavar's college years, even though I have a co-worker who works with me, has played with him in College and knows him well . But my concern and question is has he trully lived up to the hype.."The Next Ray-Ray". To me they cannot be mentioned in the same sentence. It amazes me how everyone is still on the Potential kick..but no one is on the accountablilty kick, which to me supersedes potential after 3 or 4 years...

Think about how the fans would have been on our FO if ST didn't pan out After 1 year? Even though he had rough start personally and took his hits with that...But we don't have time for a fourth year player that is supposed to be the next "LT", "Ray Ray" and anyone else as many of you fans put it, to come around. With all that money they are making, I could care less how many DC's he's had. I want him to do his job, whatever it may be. And be the effective force everyone has allegedly made him out to be.

Apply your hype comment to Washington. Would you feel the same way about him if he came out of college with a lot of hype?

akhhorus
03-28-2005, 09:38 PM
Washington is a hard working LB who does well; he isnt in the same galaxy in terms of talent with Lavar. Keep them both, choosing between them is a farsical notion: Lavar aint going anywhere because of his deal and Washington isnt making that much.

rskinsfan10
03-28-2005, 09:39 PM
I really have not payed attention to Lavar's college years, even though I have a co-worker who works with me, has played with him in College and knows him well . But my concern and question is has he trully lived up to the hype.."The Next Ray-Ray". To me they cannot be mentioned in the same sentence. It amazes me how everyone is still on the Potential kick..but no one is on the accountablilty kick, which to me supersedes potential after 3 or 4 years...

Think about how the fans would have been on our FO if ST didn't pan out After 1 year? Even though he had rough start personally and took his hits with that...But we don't have time for a fourth year player that is supposed to be the next "LT", "Ray Ray" and anyone else as many of you fans put it, to come around. With all that money they are making, I could care less how many DC's he's had. I want him to do his job, whatever it may be. And be the effective force everyone has allegedly made him out to be.

Once again, here we are with the Ray Lewis comparisons. Until LA is lined up at the MLB position, and has DTs placed in front of him whose soul purpose is to clear the way for him to make plays, then that comparison is pointless and unfounded. We are talking about two totally different positions. Playing MLB is not the same as playing OLB, period. You are mentioning the accountability thing again, so I ask again, who on this team has been asked to play out of his natural college position for an extended period of time, under differing schemes no less?

Has Sean Taylor panned out already? He had one fairly decent year, and he had that year playing his natural position. Lets see him get progressively better over SEASONS, not just one, before we annoint him. Make those comparisons when Taylor is asked to play SS and under totally different schemes. You may not care about the different schemes, but the fact remains that LA has been asked to do something totally different with every DC that has been in and out of Ashburn. It does matter.

joethefan
03-28-2005, 09:45 PM
Apply your hype comment to Washington. Would you feel the same way about him if he came out of college with a lot of hype?

Yes, only if we drafted him as high as we did with Lavar and has been here with us for four years...my question is has he had alot of injuries, been caught out of postion.

Technically i don't believe LA has had one year's worth of impact on this team that can compare to Washington's 1st season with us.

PennSkinsFan
03-28-2005, 09:46 PM
I'd take the one that other teams would be discussing in their meeting. Where they're going "we want to know where he is at all times". I want the one that the QB is looking for as soon as he breaks the huddle. That is Lavar, not Washington. They both have their strenghts and weakness but I'd take Lavar over Washington any day.

Lavar needs consitency as well, and we saw that a few games in 2003 when some offense actually got smart and started putting plays in they knew Arrington would bite on. Lavra has to wrap up and tackle better we can classify him as one fo the better LBs in the game, period.

rskinsfan10
03-28-2005, 09:52 PM
To further illustrate that scheme does matter, I find it very interesting that many critics spoke negatively of Ray Lewis this past season. Is it ironic that occured after Mike Nolan changed the scheme that Lewis had flourished in for so long, or should we just attribute it to Lewis just having an "off" year?

Hmm.....

dj_stouty
03-28-2005, 09:57 PM
Technically i don't believe LA has had one year's worth of impact on this team that can compare to Washington's 1st season with us.

Lavar lead all LBs in sacks in 2002. The defense was ranked 4th in the league that year. I think he was a HUGH impact...

joethefan
03-28-2005, 09:58 PM
Once again, here we are with the Ray Lewis comparisons. Until LA is lined up at the MLB position, and has DTs placed in front of him whose soul purpose is to clear the way for him to make plays, then that comparison is pointless and unfounded. We are talking about two totally different positions. Playing MLB is not the same as playing OLB, period. You are mentioning the accountability thing again, so I ask again, who on this team has been asked to play out of his natural college position for an extended period of time, under differing schemes no less?

Has Sean Taylor panned out already? He had one fairly decent year, and he had that year playing his natural position. Lets see him get progressively better over SEASONS, not just one, before we annoint him. Make those comparisons when Taylor is asked to play SS and under totally different schemes. You may not care about the different schemes, but the fact remains that LA has been asked to do something totally different with every DC that has been in and out of Ashburn. It does matter.

I am stating that Skins Fans worship LA as if he has had the accomplishments of a Ray Ray...That's all I'm saying. I truely see potential But the fact of the matter is when are we gonna see results from this ealy round pick we made 4 years ago. I am not annointing ST, but I only look at his impact compared to LA's 1st years impact. Name me a FS that has had a bigger impact in the last 10 years on our team?

As far as position differences. Yes they are two different positions. But I am simply speaking towards accountablilty to your team. Can we agree that after LA has had a full season on the field we can then look at his worth to the D?...If he stays healthy, which is another ?. How long will we have to wait for that? While others are on the field and making plays.

joethefan
03-28-2005, 09:59 PM
Lavar lead all LBs in sacks in 2002. The defense was ranked 4th in the league that year. I think he was a HUGH impact...

He played DE with most of those sacks...didn't have to cover anyone....

RedskinRyan
03-28-2005, 10:03 PM
I'll take LA. He was injured all of last season, so we don't really know what he can do in this Gregg Williams' system. He can be a dominant linebacker when healthy and in the same system for over a year, and can make the big play. I absolutely love Marcus (this is like picking Batman or Superman, either way you win), but I'll take LA and his freakish ability.

well duh, your not MWTrueRedskin. and i wonder who you'd pick between batman and superman....

i say arrington has the potential to be much better, but right now its washington, even though lavar's got more pro bowls under his belt.

joethefan
03-28-2005, 10:07 PM
To further illustrate that scheme does matter, I find it very interesting that many critics spoke negatively of Ray Lewis this past season. Is it ironic that occured after Mike Nolan changed the scheme that Lewis had flourished in for so long, or should we just attribute it to Lewis just having an "off" year?

Hmm.....

I never heard critics complaing about RL. Ray Lewis already has a body of work that he can be prooud of...even after four seasons..Can Lavar say that?..my own point is that Gibbs is not going to tolerate players that stay injured and players taking too long to get their acts in order....at some point. He's gonna call it quits...on experiments...eg (LA,PR)...I just hope that they both have breakout seasons, so we can stop making excuses for them.

rskinsfan10
03-28-2005, 10:12 PM
I am stating that Skins Fans worship LA as if he has had the accomplishments of a Ray Ray...That's all I'm saying. I truely see potential But the fact of the matter is when are we gonna see results from this ealy round pick we made 4 years ago. I am not annointing ST, but I only look at his impact compared to LA's 1st years impact. Name me a FS that has had a bigger impact in the last 10 years on our team?

As far as position differences. Yes they are two different positions. But I am simply speaking towards accountablilty to your team. Can we agree that after LA has had a full season on the field we can then look at his worth to the D?...If he stays healthy, which is another ?. How long will we have to wait for that? While others are on the field and making plays.

How can you compare two totally different positions, let alone two totally different situations? Again, not only was LA playing out of his natural position when he first stepped on the field (there goes that point again), but ol' Norval didn't immediately play LA. Of course Taylor had a bigger impact at FS then anyone else on this team over the last 10yrs, if only for the simple fact that outside of Mark Carrier (who was only here for one season), there have been revolving door of no-names and average to barely above average players placed at the position. So, you want to compare LA to Lewis, and think that it would be fair to do so after one year? Lewis, until this past season, played in the same position, the same scheme, for SEASONS, not just one. How is one season a fair assesment in that regard?

Why are you suddenly questioning LA's health as if he has a problem staying healthy?

rskinsfan10
03-28-2005, 10:16 PM
I never heard critics complaing about RL. Ray Lewis already has a body of work that he can be prooud of...even after four seasons..Can Lavar say that?..my own point is that Gibbs is not going to tolerate player that stay injured and players taking too long to get their acts in order....at some point. He's gonna call it quits...on experiments...eg (LA,PR)...I just hope that they both have breakout seasons, so we can stop making excuses for him.

Well then, you weren't listening to or didn't hear those that stated that Lewis was overrated after this past season.

Can Ray Lewis say that he has had to play OLB under 5 different DCs?

Do you question Lewis' ability to stay healthy, because he has been hurt just as much as LA.

RoanokeSkin
03-28-2005, 10:20 PM
As much as I love what Washington brought to the table this past season, alot of you are acting as if he has played at that level since he has been in the league. From my understanding, last year was the closest that he as ever gotten to even sniffing the Pro Bowl. While some of you contend that LA is overrated, many still ignore the fact that he has played out of position since he has been in the NFL. Maybe he is "overrated" by those that actually "rate" him because they recognize how good, or even great he could be if he had the opportunity to play the position that is natural to him.

Washington has averaged 86 tackles a season over the past 4, playing 3 of those in a defense that notoriously sucked. LaVar has averaged 84 in the 4 season prior to last year (as he didnt really play). Washington is a player, he just needed some help around him. I hope Arrington is healthy all year and making an impact. I am tired of camera shots of him in street clothes.

joethefan
03-28-2005, 10:25 PM
How can you compare two totally different positions, let alone two totally different situations? Again, not only was LA playing out of his natural position when he first stepped on the field (there goes that point again), but ol' Norval didn't immediately play LA. Of course Taylor had a bigger impact at FS then anyone else on this team over the last 10yrs, if only for the simple fact that outside of Mark Carrier (who was only here for one season), there have been revolving door of no-names and average to barely above average players placed at the position. So, you want to compare LA to Lewis, and think that it would be fair to do so after one year? Lewis, until this past season, played in the same position, the same scheme, for SEASONS, not just one. How is one season a fair assesment in that regard?

Why are you suddenly questioning LA's health as if he has a problem staying healthy?

I am only respodning to your post and you're making me to be the boogie man!!

If you read my post, I said can we agree. Many people have said and believe that LA is overrated, but until he shows it on the field, he will continue to have critics. Was this past injury the only one one he's had? I thought he had more in the past seasons, if not, my badd, but i could have sworn he missed some games last season...If so, as a fan, I can question his health. What I said previously, is that fans praise Lavar as if he's another Ray Lewis. I didn;t talk about position. The fact of the matter is that LA as not showed up yet and your argument which I value is that he's played out of position. Well this year is another year. A new year...I hope that he shows up like everyone says he would....but until then, I won't be a believer in him or Ramsey..then you can make the official JOETHFAN was wrong Thread...LOL

LATrueRedskin
03-28-2005, 10:28 PM
Well then, you weren't listening to or didn't hear those that stated that Lewis was overrated after this past season.

Can Ray Lewis say that he has had to play OLB under 5 different DCs?

Do you question Lewis' ability to stay healthy, because he has been hurt just as much as LA.

Agreed. Since when is LA constantly injured? Before this season, I don't reallly remember seeing Arrington miss many games. In fact, NFL.com has him as only missing two games total before this season. He constantly plays through pain (remember when he had to bulldoze his opponent all year because he hands hurt so bad he couldn't even hold anything?). Calling LA injury prone is just not accurate at all.

LATrueRedskin
03-28-2005, 10:30 PM
well duh, your not MWTrueRedskin. and i wonder who you'd pick between batman and superman....

i say arrington has the potential to be much better, but right now its washington, even though lavar's got more pro bowls under his belt.

:D

We all know Batman beats all.

joethefan
03-28-2005, 10:34 PM
Well then, you weren't listening to or didn't hear those that stated that Lewis was overrated after this past season.

Can Ray Lewis say that he has had to play OLB under 5 different DCs?

Do you question Lewis' ability to stay healthy, because he has been hurt just as much as LA.

No I don't questions is ability, because I see him making plays.(RL)..your making me out to be the Judge and theirs no jury here. That's only what I want for Lavar.. to make plays....but if I have an opinion whether you disagree or not that's my opinion. I respect yours and you should do the same for me.

joethefan
03-28-2005, 10:40 PM
Calling LA injury prone is just not accurate at all.

I didn't call him injury prone. I thought he was injured more than this season maybe one or two games in the last season. I said my badd if I was wrong, That doesn't make a person injury prone. I said that Gibbs won't tolerate his best guys hurt and not on the field...if you're not on the field than you're not helping the team.

rskinsfan10
03-28-2005, 10:45 PM
I am only respodning to your post and you're making me to be the boogie man!!

If you read my post, I said can we agree. Many people have said and believe that LA is overrated, but until he shows it on the field, he will continue to have critics. Was this past injury the only one one he's had? I thought he had more in the past seasons, if not, my badd, but i could have sworn he missed some games last season...If so, as a fan, I can question his health. What I said previously, is that fans praise Lavar as if he's another Ray Lewis. I didn;t talk about position. The fact of the matter is that LA as not showed up yet and your argument which I value is that he's played out of position. Well this year is another year. A new year...I hope that he shows up like everyone says he would....but until then, I won't be a believer in him or Ramsey..then you can make the official JOETHFAN was wrong Thread...LOL

I'm not making you into anything. I'm asking you questions, as you have done the same. I'm asking you to explain certain notions that you have raised. You brought Lewis into this discussion, not me. I have never, ever heard a fan praise LA as if he is Lewis. What happens is those that aren't impressed with what LA has done usually say "he ain't Ray Lewis", and that IMO is how it always starts as far as those two being mentioned along the same lines. I have never praised LA as if he was Lewis, simply because as my previous posts have pointed out, I don't think that the two can ever be compared, regardless of stature. When people talk about Ray Lewis and his impact at the positon, why is it they always compare him to Butkus? I, personally, have never heard Lewis compared to LT, and there is a reason why.

Taking into account that Lewis has played 9 seasons compared to LA's 5, I will only go back to the 2000 season to begin the comparison.

Total games missed due to injury: LA=14 RL=12 To me, that doesn't equate to one being sturdier then the other, but that's just me.

Fans that choose to do so praise LA because they recognize what he has been able to accomplish DESPITE the chips being stacked against him so far. Those like yourself tend to believe that he has no excuses, despite it all. That's fine. I wholeheartedly disagree, but hey, what else is new?

silverspring
03-28-2005, 10:49 PM
I am only respodning to your post and you're making me to be the boogie man!!

If you read my post, I said can we agree. Many people have said and believe that LA is overrated, but until he shows it on the field, he will continue to have critics. Was this past injury the only one one he's had? I thought he had more in the past seasons, if not, my badd, but i could have sworn he missed some games last season...If so, as a fan, I can question his health. What I said previously, is that fans praise Lavar as if he's another Ray Lewis. I didn;t talk about position. The fact of the matter is that LA as not showed up yet and your argument which I value is that he's played out of position. Well this year is another year. A new year...I hope that he shows up like everyone says he would....but until then, I won't be a believer in him or Ramsey..then you can make the official JOETHFAN was wrong Thread...LOL

You got to quit reading mainstream articles. Lavar has been a dominant force every season but this one. He makes mistakes but he makes more plays than mistakes and he has always been a feared presence on the field.
So he doesn't play this year and everyone starts calling him underrated. This is football - people get hurt, it can't be helped, they shouldn't be judged by it. I don't remember anyone calling him underrated when he was playing.

It is easy to call someone out when they can't prove your wrong cause of injury.
i find it very odd how easy it is for everyone to jump on the la is underrated bandwagon when he barely played this season.

rskinsfan10
03-28-2005, 10:51 PM
No I don't questions is ability, because I see him making plays.(RL)..your making me out to be the Judge and theirs no jury here. That's only what I want for Lavar.. to make plays....but if I have an opinion whether you disagree or not that's my opinion. I respect yours and you should do the same for me.

Okay, before this get's out of hand, please show me where I "disrespected" your opinion. I'm not making you out as anything. I haven't called you a name or attacked you personally. You have on you own accord raised points, and I have rebutted those points and raised my own. You have rebutted my counters. Am I missing something here? Should I feel disrespected simply because you disagree with me, because up until now I haven't, but I'm starting to wonder if I should because for some odd reason you feel as if I have done so to you.

Where did I say that you questioned Lewis' ability? I asked you do you question Lewis' abiltity to stay healthy as you were clearly doing with LA.

joethefan
03-28-2005, 10:57 PM
I'm not making you into anything. I'm asking you questions, as you have done the same. I'm asking you to explain certain notions that you have raised. You brought Lewis into this discussion, not me. I have never, ever heard a fan praise LA as if he is Lewis. What happens is those that aren't impressed with what LA has done usually say "he ain't Ray Lewis", and that IMO is how it always starts as far as those two being mentioned along the same lines. I have never praised LA as if he was Lewis, simply because as my previous posts have pointed out, I don't think that the two can ever be compared, regardless of stature. When people talk about Ray Lewis and his impact at the positon, why is it they always compare him to Butkus? I, personally, have never heard Lewis compared to LT, and there is a reason why.

Taking into account that Lewis has played 9 seasons compared to LA's 5, I will only go back to the 2000 season to begin the comparison.

Total games missed due to injury: LA=14 RL=12 To me, that doesn't equate to one being sturdier then the other, but that's just me.

Fans that choose to do so praise LA because they recognize what he has been able to accomplish DESPITE the chips being stacked against him so far. Those like yourself tend to believe that he has no excuses, despite it all. That's fine. I wholeheartedly disagree, but hey, what else is new?

I appreciate your candicy...I for one have heard fans say that he'll be the next RL or the next LT.(I'm sure they didn't give him 56 for nothing) Remember you're comparing postitions. I'm comparing team impact and accompishment, that's all. So now that he's back into his orginal position, how many years are you gonna give him to be a total force on this Defense? Or will it be this year? I sure hope it's this year...

joethefan
03-28-2005, 11:05 PM
Okay, before this get's out of hand, please show me where I "disrespected" your opinion. I'm not making you out as anything. I haven't called you a name or attacked you personally. You have on you own accord raised points, and I have rebutted those points and raised my own. You have rebutted my counters. Am I missing something here? Should I feel disrespected simply because you disagree with me, because up until now I haven't, but I'm starting to wonder if I should because for some odd reason you feel as if I have done so to you.

Where did I say that you questioned Lewis' ability? I asked you do you question Lewis' abiltity to stay healthy as you were clearly doing with LA.

and I repsonded to you saying "No i don't because I see lewis making plays." You're right, you haven't attacked me personally.and I'm sorry if I responded in that way...but for some reason, I may be wrong, but sometimes you seem to come off harsh. And if you didn't mean it that way, I'm sorry ... we are just rebutting each others points....you're right my badd.

LadyNRedskinsfan
03-28-2005, 11:13 PM
Lady as mch as I admire you, I gotta go against your post. The reason why, is yes Lavar was hurt last year. But if you compare Marcus playing the Strong side and Lavar playing the stron side....Marcus clearly was more efficient and more consistent. Every time there was practically anything that took place this season on the strong side, Marcus was in the mix. Now I think the question we need to ask is.Will Lavar be consistant all year, without injury? That is the question. I know this as someone said recently, Lavar and Ramsey had better show up this year. I'm tired of all the celebration, and talking. Marcus came in here and in 1 year excelled as the No1 Linebacker to me. Marcus is also a sure tackler..one that I'll take any day over the fan favorite that is still trying to find himself...
you cant discount what marcus did for us last season, but i dont think its fair to compare his performance to what lavar did last year.....which was just about nothing. marcus played great in a very good defense that made every player on defense look good. lets see lavar play a full year in gregg williams' system before we truly compare the two linebackers.....and im not quite sure lavar is trying to find himself. i believe he is just trying to find his knee.....lol...

just for fun, lets compare some stats. these are marcus washington career highs BEFORE he came to washington and played in GW's system. (and LA's also)

MW
Tackles: 93 (2001)
Sacks: 6 (2003)
INTs: 1 (00', 02')
Forced Fumbles: 3 (2003)
Total TDs: 1

lets look at lavar's numbers....

LA
Tackles: 99 (2001)
Sacks: 11 (2002)
INTs: 3 (2001)
Forced Fumbles: 6 (2003)
Total TDs: 2

joethefan
03-28-2005, 11:16 PM
i find it very odd how easy it is for everyone to jump on the la is underrated bandwagon when he barely played this season.

I for one have not really been happy with his production since Marty sorry...I try to give a player 3 years before I form an negative opinion on him. But i do hope he can get it done this year....

MIAboyz26,36,83
03-28-2005, 11:18 PM
LA is a stud give him one year under G. Williams. look at what he did with the rest of our team.

silverspring
03-28-2005, 11:31 PM
I for one have not really been happy with his production since Marty sorry...I try to give a player 3 years before I form an negative opinion on him. But i do hope he can get it done this year....

fair enough. It just seems like there has been a huge anti-la sentiment this season and i find that to be unfair to the guy.
Prior to his injury, maybe he hasn't been a ray lewis or LT, but i don't know how you could say that he has not been a force out there every year. Maybe it is just that everyone has such high expectations of him. When you look at how GW's system seemed to make everyone look good that played in it, i wonder if that effect will finally bring lavar to superhero status.

bgforever
03-28-2005, 11:37 PM
LaVar and Washington are IMMEDIATE impact players period. Both excel in given areas, with Washington being more adept at pass coverage, while LaVar is improving in that area. Both have the same equal skills to handle blockers and get to the quarterback, stop the run and leave highlight hits along the way. Players like this feed off each other (example: Smoot and Springs).

When Bowen returns, he will up his game, because ST is so powerful back there, that without intending to do it, can make it look like the other safeties not trying hard enough. If it is positive, they will feed off of each other's playing.

This is also true with how Griffin affects the other DT's, Portis fires up Betts.

joethefan
03-28-2005, 11:41 PM
i wonder if that effect will finally bring lavar to superhero status.

Good question and when..that's my question.

If he was drafted that High and given all that money...I just feel the Washington has not gotten thier money's worth. Now some will say he needs to play in his original position. but who knows....now that he's back in his position how long will it take for Danny to get his moneys worth.....

LATrueRedskin
03-28-2005, 11:46 PM
Good question and when..that's my question.

If he was drafted that High and given all that money...I just feel the Washington has not gotten thier money's worth. Now some will say he needs to play in his original position. but who knows....now that he's back in his position how long will it take for Danny to get his moneys worth.....

My big thing is the lack of coaching continuity. I got to find it extremely hard to play effectively when a new coach comes in every year and changes your assignments. LA's done this 5 times. I understand he's a professional at his job and he's required to adjust, but FIVE different coaches with FIVE different defensive schemes is pretty hard to adjust to, and that's all LA knows. I don't think it's Arrington's fault Danny isn't getting his money's worth.

joethefan
03-28-2005, 11:51 PM
My big thing is the lack of coaching continuity. I got to find it extremely hard to play effectively when a new coach comes in every year and changes your assignments. LA's done this 5 times. I understand he's a professional at his job and he's required to adjust, but FIVE different coaches with FIVE different defensive schemes is pretty hard to adjust to, and that's all LA knows. I don't think it's Arrington's fault Danny isn't getting his money's worth.

Well you maybe right...but I don't know about yall but I'm tired of seeing mediocre LA....It's time for him to rise up...now many fans will be saying we have to wait until next year till he's a true beast because he was injured all year this year, which makes him a year behind everyone else.....and you're right to a degree that LA is still a rookie in this system... I believe....because he doens't have the time on the field to show for it....

LATrueRedskin
03-28-2005, 11:53 PM
Well you maybe right...but I don't know about yall but I'm tired of seeing mediocre LA....It's time for him to rise up...now many fans will be saying we have to wait until next year till he's a true beast because he was injured all year this year, which makes him a year behind everyone else.....and you're right to a degree that LA is still a rookie in this system... I believe....because he doens't have the time on the field to show for it....

Let's just hope he was paying attention this year during practice and the games. Hopefully he, himself, has a chip on his shoulder.

LadyNRedskinsfan
03-29-2005, 12:07 AM
Well you maybe right...but I don't know about yall but I'm tired of seeing mediocre LA....It's time for him to rise up...now many fans will be saying we have to wait until next year till he's a true beast because he was injured all year this year, which makes him a year behind everyone else.....and you're right to a degree that LA is still a rookie in this system... I believe....because he doens't have the time on the field to show for it....
.....and i think the difference between this defense and the other defensive teams he was apart of, is that he wont necessarily have to carry the defense since its more of a team D.

silverspring
03-29-2005, 12:08 AM
Good question and when..that's my question.

If he was drafted that High and given all that money...I just feel the Washington has not gotten thier money's worth. Now some will say he needs to play in his original position. but who knows....now that he's back in his position how long will it take for Danny to get his moneys worth.....

In terms of money, recall this was back in the days when there was no leash on danny so that is no ones fault but his.
imo every year but this year he has made a significant impact. So no complaints here.
However, I think a year on the bench might have been good for him and I do expect to see superhero status this year. Let me conclude by saying how much i am looking forward to the Official joe is wrong thread in respects to both LA and Ramsey. If that thread appears it can only mean good things...

bgforever
03-29-2005, 01:03 AM
In terms of money, recall this was back in the days when there was no leash on danny so that is no ones fault but his.
imo every year but this year he has made a significant impact. So no complaints here.
However, I think a year on the bench might have been good for him and I do expect to see superhero status this year. Let me conclude by saying how much i am looking forward to the Official joe is wrong thread in respects to both LA and Ramsey. If that thread appears it can only mean good things...

Ah, Joe, they gotcha' there :lol1:

:Peace:

dogfight6
03-29-2005, 05:33 AM
Washington had a chance to play in GW's. scheme and it worked for him ,give Arrington a year in this scheme and he will push for sack leader not only for the Skins but for the entire NFL. I predict that between Washington, Arrington, Taylor and Bowen we lead the league in players put on IR.!

smoak
03-29-2005, 06:58 AM
Washington is better. Arrington is more capable of making the huge play, but he is also much more capable of missing an assignment and giving up a huge one. I remember is SPurrier's second year he blitzed on his own, leaving his assignment (FB Jim Finn) wide open down the sideline for a 40 yard gain which set up the Giants' game winning fg.

I was at that game and believe me it hurt more than I care to explain... but you can't judge any of the defensive guys under George Edwards. I really like the guy, but he isn't a DC yet.

MONK_in_HOF
03-29-2005, 07:07 AM
I have been waiting for Lavar's production to match his potential for his whole career now so he can earn that huge contract that weighs so heavily on the skins cap. IMO he hasn't come close. In his defense he has had a different D coordinator each year. I just don't think his price matches his production whatsoever. Washington on the other hand has improved each year in the NFL and his contract is about half the size of LA.

hail2skins
03-29-2005, 09:26 AM
I have been waiting for Lavar's production to match his potential for his whole career now so he can earn that huge contract that weighs so heavily on the skins cap. IMO he hasn't come close. In his defense he has had a different D coordinator each year. I just don't think his price matches his production whatsoever. Washington on the other hand has improved each year in the NFL and his contract is about half the size of LA.

Don't blame the size of LA's contract on him. Blame it on the people who gave it to him. Also, take into account that the people who gave him his contract also had him playing for different DC's every year he's been in the league. How can someone improve at something when their duties change yearly? Remember how just about all of us have been calling for consistency with this team.

Also, remember back to preseason when Arrington was playing and looking very well. We all remember the sack on Vick in the preseason game and we were all excited about what we would see in the season. Well, Arrington got hurt so we didn't see what we wanted/expected to see from him. That's not his fault as injuries are apart of this game. Then our defense goes on to play very well without him and now people are saying we really don't need him. I would bet that GW isn't thinking "We can get rid of Arrington, I don't need him". I think he would be licking his chops to see his schemes with the likes of a healthy Arrington in there.

We have those who say it's the scheme that GW uses and not the players that made our defense good. Well, only time will tell with that. I'd like to see this scheme over a couple of seasons before I annoint it as such. With the likes of Smoot, Pierce just to name a few who have left, we'll see if it's the scheme or not. The only way to truly tell though is if Arrington, Bowen and the others who didn't play last season, don't play this season. Then we would see if it's just the schemes.

skins4life24
03-29-2005, 10:02 AM
Easy...

Potential: Arrington

Reality: Washington

Arrington has the potential to be a dominating LB, but like Ramsey, the "potential" just does not cut it anymore. Right now he is good, but shoudl be great.

Washington on the other hand...simply put, one line, A COMPLETE PLAYER
lets not get ahead of our selves and start comparing ramsey and his potential to arrington . . . lets not forget arrington has been to a probowl and has realized some of his potential

dj_stouty
03-29-2005, 10:27 AM
I swear...sometimes you guys expect every Redskin to be the absolute best at their position or else they are labeled a bust.

I'll take a top 3 pick going to the Pro Bowl 3 of 5 seasons ANY DAY. Do you know how many top 3 picks never amount to ANYTHING...let alone a multilple pro-bowler? For every top 3 pick like Lavar who goes out and makes plays and goes to the pro bowl multiple times...there are plenty of top 3 picks like Joey Harrington, Gerard Warren, Courtney Brown, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Andre Wadsworth, Darrell Russell, Ki-Jana Carter, Heath Shuler (ouch), Rick Mirer or Tony Mandarich who don't amount to ANYTHING.

The Front offices of the top three picks this year would pay millions of additional $ to guarantee their top three pick would be as productive as Lavar has been.

Lavar has excelled at every assignment given to him by his DC. When asked to sack the QB...he goes out and leads LBs in sacks. When asked to play Sam LB and get into coverage, he leads all OLBs in pass deflections. etc...etc...etc...

To compare or contrast Lavar and Marcus is silly. They currently play different positions....and when they both played Sam LB, they had different DCs asking them to do different things.

guinness4health
03-29-2005, 10:44 AM
I swear...sometimes you guys expect every Redskin to be the absolute best at their position or else they are labeled a bust.

I'll take a top 3 pick going to the Pro Bowl 3 of 5 seasons ANY DAY. Do you know how many top 3 picks never amount to ANYTHING...let alone a multilple pro-bowler? For every top 3 pick like Lavar who goes out and makes plays and goes to the pro bowl multiple times...there are plenty of top 3 picks like Joey Harrington, Gerard Warren, Courtney Brown, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Ryan Leaf, Andre Wadsworth, Darrell Russell, Ki-Jana Carter, Heath Shuler (ouch), Rick Mirer or Tony Mandarich who don't amount to ANYTHING.

The Front offices of the top three picks this year would pay millions of additional $ to guarantee their top three pick would be as productive as Lavar has been.

Lavar has excelled at every assignment given to him by his DC. When asked to sack the QB...he goes out and leads LBs in sacks. When asked to play Sam LB and get into coverage, he leads all OLBs in pass deflections. etc...etc...etc...

To compare or contrast Lavar and Marcus is silly. They currently play different positions....and when they both played Sam LB, they had different DCs asking them to do different things.

DAMN GOOD POST....

I couldn't have put it better

SkinsTrumpet
03-29-2005, 10:59 AM
I think the thing that sets LA apart from MW is the desire to be a SKin for life. Maybe MW feels that way as well but I have only heard LA talk about being a core skin for life. As far as talent, LA takes the cake.
And let's give LA a year of being healthy in Williams' system. The possibilities....

Meatsnack
03-29-2005, 11:37 AM
I have two thought on the thread so far:

1) Gregg Williams' scheme is amazing. It is really good with average players. With a guy like ST or LA or CG playing a spot, it becomes truly dangerous and unpredictable. Instead of an average player getting close to the QB and disrupting a play, a great player smashes the QB and we run a turnover back, etc.

2) The difference between LA and LT is aggression. LT played angry and played mean. He would work up a hate for the other team and go take some things out on them. LT never had better physical ability than LaVar but he played like he had a personal grudge.


A playmaker has to be accounted for on every down. LA is a playmaker. ST is a potential playmaker. As great as I think LA is, he wil never play like LT until he puts a chip up on his shoulder and holds some people accountable for making him put it up there.

BurgundyNGold
03-29-2005, 11:50 AM
I have two thought on the thread so far:

1) Gregg Williams' scheme is amazing. It is really good with average players. With a guy like ST or LA or CG playing a spot, it becomes truly dangerous and unpredictable. Instead of an average player getting close to the QB and disrupting a play, a great player smashes the QB and we run a turnover back, etc.

2) The difference between LA and LT is aggression. LT played angry and played mean. He would work up a hate for the other team and go take some things out on them. LT never had better physical ability than LaVar but he played like he had a personal grudge.


A playmaker has to be accounted for on every down. LA is a playmaker. ST is a potential playmaker. As great as I think LA is, he wil never play like LT until he puts a chip up on his shoulder and holds some people accountable for making him put it up there.
Wow, that's exactly what I was going to post. No need for me to elaborate, you said it all.

joethefan
03-29-2005, 11:59 AM
I have two thought on the thread so far:

1) Gregg Williams' scheme is amazing. It is really good with average players. With a guy like ST or LA or CG playing a spot, it becomes truly dangerous and unpredictable. Instead of an average player getting close to the QB and disrupting a play, a great player smashes the QB and we run a turnover back, etc.

2) The difference between LA and LT is aggression. LT played angry and played mean. He would work up a hate for the other team and go take some things out on them. LT never had better physical ability than LaVar but he played like he had a personal grudge.


A playmaker has to be accounted for on every down. LA is a playmaker. ST is a potential playmaker. As great as I think LA is, he wil never play like LT until he puts a chip up on his shoulder and holds some people accountable for making him put it up there.


maybe I didn't expound on it too well earlier in this thread...but this is what I was trying to say...but I only added the passion of Ray Lewis then I was bombarded...but a very good debate.

portis2endzone
03-29-2005, 12:07 PM
i wouldnt want one over the other. i want them both. they play differnt pos. in terms of a strong side lb we know that washington is a pro bowler and on weak side we have lavar who is pro bowler as well. i have have a feeling that they both could be heading to the probowl together because they will complement eachother.

J-Rod
03-29-2005, 12:35 PM
For the most part I think that Washington and Arrington stack up evenly in regards to their respective positions. I will say though that Washington has the slight edge when it comes to just being a LB. It's all about mistake-free football. Washington is not flashy but he makes very few mistakes. Arrington on the other hand will make a spectacular play one down and screw up an assignment on the very next. I love the highlight reel hits and plays but give me steady play when looking for a "W".

Also, let's be honest here and put away our Redskins bias...to compare Arrington to LT is ludacris when Levar hasn't even shown to be the equal of Derrick Thomas yet.

BurgundyNGold
03-29-2005, 12:48 PM
...when Levar hasn't even shown to be the equal of Derrick Thomas yet.
Exactly how long do we have to wait? Isn't LaVar in his 5th year upcoming? Hopefully, having a little continuity in the defensive system will work wonders for him.

1994softtail
03-29-2005, 11:14 PM
la will be a beast this year. for once the defenses have to worry about more than one player for the first time since la has been here. he will be at his most effective position wlb. and he will want the new wife to be proud of his play.
2 pro bowlers this year at linebackers =arrington+washington

bgforever
03-29-2005, 11:21 PM
maybe I didn't expound on it too well earlier in this thread...but this is what I was trying to say...but I only added the passion of Ray Lewis then I was bombarded...but a very good debate.

Hey Lewis has LT's intensity and foresight. Like LT,he isn't going to let you get to him first, before he gets to you and makes the tackle. LA's great on a lot of plays, but as noted before, back then tried to hard to cover other peoples backs, it became a habit. Thus he looked to be out of position or sometimes he was. No, I never thought he'd be exactly like LT or Derrick Thomas, but he does have those abilities, as does the chip you mentioned. That can't be taught.

Nevertheless, a healthy LA will much more than we had hoped for, because of the way THIS defense is played and the play of the other LB's around him. Just pray they all stay healthy or within reason, on the whole roster.