Pastabelli re: Holdman, Washington, and Barrow

[akhhorus]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2059328&num=0

Nice, modestly-priced pickup by the Washington Redskins this week, signing former Chicago and Cleveland linebacker Warrick Holdman to what is believed to be a one-year contract. The six-year veteran hasn't been, over the last couple seasons, the same player he was for the Bears early in his career. But Holdman is still just 29 years old, knows how to play the game, and Redskins defensive coordinator Gregg Williams will figure a way to make good use of him. The acquisition of Holdman, who has played all three linebacker spots at various junctures of his career, almost certainly will make Mike Barrow expendable. The veteran middle 'backer missed the entire 2004 campaign and Washington probably will jettison him after June 1, when it needs salary cap space to sign its draft choices. Holdman might join the group of linebackers vying for the starting job in the middle, where the defection of Antonio Pierce to the New York Giants as a free agent has created a big hole. But don't discount the possibility that the Redskins will move strong-side linebacker and 2004 Pro Bowl performer Marcus Washington into the middle, and use Holdman to fill his slot. When they were recruiting Washington last spring as a free agent, Redskins coaches floated the idea of playing him in the middle, and it could happen. Regardless of who lines up where, the addition of Holdman gives Williams a lot of flexibility, assuming LaVar Arrington returns whole from the injuries that limited him to just four games a year ago.

[PennSkinsFan]

No doubt the Holdman signing does make the mix and possibilities at Linebacker numerous. I could see washington in the middle, the only problem I have with that is I enjoy watching his freedome to move. I think he excelled last season at strong side, why mess with that mix.

Holdman is the kind of guy that we could be looking at in the end of the 2005 season as the surprise of the year. I think he will be happy to be reunited with both Blache and Lindsey and excel in the Williams scheme.

[redskin_rich]

I think putting Washington in the middle isn't a bad idea at all. It might just be our best option this season, if Barrow doesn't recover. I just wonder out of Arrington and Holdman, who should play strong and weak side.

[Santheb]

Why move our best (or at least ONE of the best) defensive players out of position? I know it worked last year for Marcus switching from weak side to strong side, but he excelled at SLB and made the Pro Bowl...

I hope that Holdman is just a backup and that it goes Arrington | Marshall |Washington

If Marshall can't play MLB, get one of the rookies to do it then. I just don't agree with moving MW to the inside.

[The Skinsinator]

Pastabellys praise is most interesting here although accurate. Although Pasta has blasted us I think the root of his spite for us is with Snyder and his arrogance/ridiculous spending initially. Pasta doesnt have to ever praise us however he did he moderately once again. Or perhaps he is still drunk from the last praise he gave us. Both options are quite plausible.

[The Skinsinator]

Why move our best (or at least ONE of the best) defensive players out of position? I know it worked last year for Marcus switching from weak side to strong side, but he excelled at SLB and made the Pro Bowl...

I hope that Holdman is just a backup and that it goes Arrington | Marshall |Washington

If Marshall can't play MLB, get one of the rookies to do it then. I just don't agree with moving MW to the inside.

I agree on the reluctance to switch Washington. However Pasta is just entertaining the scenario although unlikely may occur. I really dont think hes trying to stir up his gargantuan pot just making us aware of it. Williams will get it done in the best manner. Linebackers are the least of my concerns comparitively speaking to our other units.

[CNYSkinFan]

Marcus in the middle is not a great scenario for me. Marcus is great at SAM and we have no real replacement there. Lavar is a a better weak side linebacker. I rather filln the hole at Mike with Lemar, Barrow, Smith, Holdman, or McCune. If we can't get a Pierce type player out of that group then someone fell asleep in Ashburn

[IowaSkinsFan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2059328&num=0

b] But don't discount the possibility that the Redskins will move strong-side linebacker and 2004 Pro Bowl performer Marcus Washington into the middle, and use Holdman to fill his slot. When they were recruiting Washington last spring as a free agent, Redskins coaches floated the idea of playing him in the middle, and it could happen. [/b]

I absolutely cannot see that happening. Washington has too much energy to be put in the middle. I think it would be a waste of his pass rushing skills.

[Meatsnack]

I, too, would be reluctant to move MW after a well-deserved Pro Bowl season at the Sam. But, I don't put any move past GW.

(Edit) And why is it the loss of Pierce that created the huge hole in our defense instead of a freak bout of tendinitis in the knee of our projected starter?

Since we pursued Holdman to play the middle originally and had to settle for Barrow, this move slots right into GWs original plan for the linebacking corp.

[greatest2]

stupid Fat Boy....he is just stirin' up trouble with this mentioning. I think the twinkies finally got to his head.

Lavar at weak side to cause trouble....Washington is a pro-bowler at SAM so DON'T move him.....i would love to see Holdman take over as MIKE. Thats my ideal but i wouldn't have a problem if McCune was in there.....i think Lemar (though he played admirable and ok) won't be a good fit at middle.

[IMALILTEAPOT]

i dont want marcus in the middle. he's at his best when hes on the outside and blitzing. im not comfortable with him having to play coverage and read and reacting at the mlb position. besides, he even said a couple of times in a couple of interviews that he doesnt like playing the mlb position. but the holdman signing is really good, the linebacker position is a real strength

[vegeta2364]

Dont' want him in the middle.. want him at Strong side Linebacker

[The Skinsinator]

Ill be amazed if Washington is moved to middle linebacker also. Theres too much talent/desire there already although everyone knows Im on the McCune bandwagon.

[BIGSEF3]

Marcus in the middle is not a great scenario for me. Marcus is great at SAM and we have no real replacement there. Lavar is a a better weak side linebacker. I rather filln the hole at Mike with Lemar, Barrow, Smith, Holdman, or McCune. If we can't get a Pierce type player out of that group then someone fell asleep in Ashburn

I agree whole-heartedly. I really think Lemar and McCune are our best options at MLB. McCune may not be ready, though, and we really hasnt proven anything on an NFL field yet. I like Washington exactly where he is and moving him would be about as foolish as moving arrington to the middle.

[Redskin4Life]

I think everyone's in agreement with NOT moving Marcus to MLB. I truly love the prospect of Holdman coming in at middle and starting with Barrow out, McCune getting a year to learn. It's also possible that this "one-year deal" is to have Holdman in camp now and when we cut some guys after June 1st, he'll get signed to a new 2-yr, 3yr deal. Holdman will play here while McCune learns the system, both primarily middle guys. I like Marshall at strong side or weak side. His pass-rushing skills are better utilized in those positions.

[lavarsamonster]

losing marcus' speed on the outside would be devastating for our defense, im totally against him in the middle, we lack a true pass rush threat along the d line and our pressure comes from our edge linebackers, losing him allow lavar would still be out there would really hurt our sack numbers and i think overall our pass defense

[sdredskinsfan]

I, too, would be reluctant to move MW after a well-deserved Pro Bowl season at the Sam. But, I don't put any move past GW.

(Edit) And why is it the loss of Pierce that created the huge hole in our defense instead of a freak bout of tendinitis in the knee of our projected starter?

Since we pursued Holdman to play the middle originally and had to settle for Barrow, this move slots right into GWs original plan for the linebacking corp.

My recollection is that the rumor was that Barrow's asking price was too high at first, and that he was coveted more than Holdman.

[redskinz#1fan]

There is no doubt that Washington could play MLB and excell at it, but it wouldn't allow him to play his strong points (blitzing, roaming the field). I say we put marshall and the rest of the LB's out there and let then battle it out, whoever wins that battle starts. Hell if that person doesn't work, then we always have more options with the other LB's. Just IMO

[greatest2]

nananana hey hey hey GOODBYE BARROW

i don't want him here. He is old, and he was productive in his seasons as a giant 100+ tackles.........he isn't fast enough, and i feel that somebody else could better grasp this complicated defensive system that makes United States governmant system look simple.

[portis2endzone]

no way washington will play MLB. i think they will only use this as a last resort.

[camasterton]

I've always believed that Marcus Washington was choice one after Pearce left. Said so the day Pearce left. He fits the position as defined by the DC-a fast, intelligent, big hitter with leadership abilities and a "Team first" mentality. Obviously LaVar is a luxury, not a neccessity. Maybe he could hold down Washington's spot (from last season)and there are others on the Team who could man his position. The DC has always said he prefers "more than one position players" on his defense and if he determines that the ILB is the most important need, I think he may well choose Washington.

[828791Redskins]

Why would you move Marcus from his strong side position? He's great there.I don't think we have a good enough option to replace him on the S.S.You just don't move pro bowlers from there dominant positions,this includes LaVaar.

[The Skinsinator]

Why would you move Marcus from his strong side position? He's great there.I don't think we have a good enough option to replace him on the S.S.You just don't move pro bowlers from there dominant positions,this includes LaVaar.

Because Pastabelly said so. Thats why. Any casual nfl observer knows what Pasta says will undoubtedly turn into reality.

[whitskins]

I think if Marcus were ever going to play in the middle it would have been last year when we were without Barrow and chose to play Pierce. The need at MLB was much more pressing then and we still stuck in Pierce, so I think we've had plenty of time to make a list of alternatives that we are comfortable with.

[GoDannyBoy]

I think signing Holdman is a great move because it gives us the depth needed at LB. Williams "D" will be ready to play on opening day, whoever is in the middle.

[lakeskin]

I'm sure its been discussed, but it will never be implemented. The guy was to good last year at his NATURAL position. I'm sure the coaching staff throws alot of scenarios around most of which never see the light of day.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

mmm... let me see....

1. Holdman signs a 1 year contract
2. We move a Pro-Bowl OLB to a different position
3. Holdman leaves at FA next year

Ok, then we.....
1. Move Washington to OLB again?
2. Develop another MLB/OLB?

I don't think this will happen.

[PennSkinsFan]

LT28 you are assuming that they would move washington back even if Holdman left. What about Marshall that we signed for three years? Mccune, Newberry? JUst because Holdman could blot doe snot mean you HAVE to move Washington back. I think they drafted Linebackers for a reason.

Also, let us not forget abotu a guy that played well last season. Chris Clemons.

[SonnyandSam]

Moving Washington to the middle would be an incredible waste of speed, quickness and playmaking ability. We need his pass rushing ability off the edge since we have no DE to create a rush. He's also our best pass coverage linebacker. Why stick him in the middle and take away one of his strengths?

[BandWagon]

Pastabellys praise is most interesting here although accurate. Although Pasta has blasted us I think the root of his spite for us is with Snyder and his arrogance/ridiculous spending initially. Pasta doesnt have to ever praise us however he did he moderately once again. Or perhaps he is still drunk from the last praise he gave us. Both options are quite plausible.

If we start winning games, look for Pastabelly to make his shift to favorable discussions along this line. He's dropped the odd praise from time to time and it's always centered on Gregg Williams. He could inconspiciously shift slightly and be outwardly praising the defense and before anyone notices, slip in a positive comment on particulars of the offense...then before you know it, he's on the band wagon. He will be very interesting to watch this year. I believe that's two pieces in the row where he hasn't had too many bad things to say....stay tuned.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

LT28 you are assuming that they would move washington back even if Holdman left. What about Marshall that we signed for three years? Mccune, Newberry? JUst because Holdman could blot doe snot mean you HAVE to move Washington back. I think they drafted Linebackers for a reason.

Also, let us not forget abotu a guy that played well last season. Chris Clemons.
But then we would need to bring in Lemar again, after one year on the bench/rotation. I think we need a little more stability. Groom somebody for that MLB spot and leave the OLB how they are looks like the best solution to me. Rotate Holdman/Arrington/Washington/Marshall as the OLB's.

[HanburgerBum]

I think putting Washington in the middle isn't a bad idea at all. It might just be our best option this season, if Barrow doesn't recover. I just wonder out of Arrington and Holdman, who should play strong and weak side.


Couldn't disagree with you more. I think moving Washington to the middle would be a terrible idea. Why would you move a pro-bowler from his position of strength to a position that he may or may not excel? And, even if Washington turns out to be a good Mike, who would fill the big void vacated by him? Isn't this robbing Peter to pay Paul?

Further, wasn't Gregg Williams recently quoted saying that all backers EXCEPT FOR ARRINGTON AND WASHINGTON need to learn all three linebacking positions in order to make themselves versatile and give the team great flexibility. To me, that means that Lavar (health permitting) is set at the weak side and Marcus is set as SAM. So, the issue appears to be closed before it is opened.

[BigPlayJay]

Although Mr. P was unusually complimentarey of us in this article as usual he dosn't have aclue whats really happening with the Redskins and is just guessing. If you read the interview with Greg Williams on Redskins.com a week or so ago you understand that Arrington and Washington are fixed at their postions. Williams said that all of the linebackers are expected to be able to play all the postions with the exception of Arrington and Washington.

[FanFromArizona]

I think everyone's in agreement with NOT moving Marcus to MLB. I truly love the prospect of Holdman coming in at middle and starting with Barrow out, McCune getting a year to learn. It's also possible that this "one-year deal" is to have Holdman in camp now and when we cut some guys after June 1st, he'll get signed to a new 2-yr, 3yr deal. Holdman will play here while McCune learns the system, both primarily middle guys. I like Marshall at strong side or weak side. His pass-rushing skills are better utilized in those positions.


I totally agree, this makes the most sense to me. Keep our positions of strength[MW,LA] intact, and let the philosophy of "let the draft players learn the system at their own pace" work its beauty in the group of Holdman, McCune, and Marshall {Barrow? I doubt it} as MLB. I think the Holdman pickup will allow GW to have multiple and aggressive packages with no letdown.

[Ramsey2Moss]

I would put Holdman in the middle. I like the versatility we now have, but I think Washington needs to stay at the strong side.

[redskin_rich]

Couldn't disagree with you more. I think moving Washington to the middle would be a terrible idea. Why would you move a pro-bowler from his position of strength to a position that he may or may not excel? And, even if Washington turns out to be a good Mike, who would fill the big void vacated by him? Isn't this robbing Peter to pay Paul?

Further, wasn't Gregg Williams recently quoted saying that all backers EXCEPT FOR ARRINGTON AND WASHINGTON need to learn all three linebacking positions in order to make themselves versatile and give the team great flexibility. To me, that means that Lavar (health permitting) is set at the weak side and Marcus is set as SAM. So, the issue appears to be closed before it is opened.
Let me start by saying that I'm not advocating this move, just pointing out the reasons I think it could work. And this is all assuming Barrow is gone.

I think it could work for a couple of reasons, Marcus is our best LB right now and he knows the defense. He has the size to play the Mike and he is a very good tackler. We have others with experience on the outside. Lavar made the pro bowl playing strong side and playing DE and he was moved to the weak side last year, although he didn't play much.
It may not be in Marcus' best interest but it could be in ours. I think he could easily play better than Pierce did in that role and Lavar, Marshall and/or Holdman would be fine at the Sam and the Willy.
Again its just my opinion right now.

[darksome]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2059328&num=0[b] But don't discount the possibility that the Redskins will move strong-side linebacker and 2004 Pro Bowl performer Marcus Washington into the middle, and use Holdman to fill his slot.

No way! That is just like putting Lavar there. It takes away from their strengths! I think Washington even said that he would play there if they asked him, but he prefers not to. (Not a quote, as I can't show the proof).

Nah, him and Lavar in GWs system, gives us a formidable outside attack, which with the pointed absence of a pass rush, is much needed. They just will plain wreak havoc and will both have to be accounted for. I am willing to bet you that the pressure that they bring and the ability to have our safeties play up is allowing more freedom with this Lemar experience than we know of.

Forget fatboy Pastabelly! Tell him to go pick on a country his own size!

[RedskinForLife]

I think that Greg should do what ever he likes because he made our defense what it is today and I think that he knows what he is doing.

[darksome]

I think that Greg should do what ever he likes because he made our defense what it is today and I think that he knows what he is doing.

That GW will do what he likes is a given, the debate was whether Holdman allows us to move Washington to the MLB, instead of the strong-side. Pushing up against TEs is nothing compared to mammoth OL that get thru. I love his size MW, but we will nullify his athletic attributes if we move him inside in the "black hole" of the box.

[skins111111]

the way I saw it was that our D-Lines strength was stuffing the run and that in its self helped AP have the year that he had. our line was in turn weak at putting pressure on the QB. With all this being said I feel we need a MLB that can support the run but must be very good at falling back in pass coverage. We need speed and agility on the outside.....LaVar and Marcus.

[2Cooley]

maybe we could be preparing for a new D form like the ones that the pats use where we could bring out 6 lbs and drop taylor into the box put lott and bowen at saftey and Springs and harris at CB maybe on a 3rd and long to have as much speed as possible

[redwolf1218]

i read somewhere that Williams said he would like all the linebackers EXCEPT Lavar and Marcus to be able to play all 3 positions. To me that sounded like Lavar and Marcus will stay on the outsides where they are. i think the battle will be between Holdman and Marshall for the middle spot, unless McCune surprises everyone.

[darksome]

i read somewhere that Williams said he would like all the linebackers EXCEPT Lavar and Marcus to be able to play all 3 positions. To me that sounded like Lavar and Marcus will stay on the outsides where they are. i think the battle will be between Holdman and Marshall for the middle spot, unless McCune surprises everyone.

I couldn't have said it better myself...in fact I have! That is exactly what he (GW) said.

[GMUskinsfan]

i disagree with moving washington to mlb. I think he's an amazing athlete who gives us that rush (especially to the qb) we need from our lb's. I just think we might lose a lot of the options he gives us if he got moved to the middle. That being said i would prefer to have arrington and washington on the sides and rotate with whatever mix of lb's prove themselves in camp. Which by the way i think we'll see some surprises from the rooks.

[BurgundyNGold]

How can anyone honestly entertain moving a player like Marcus Washington from his Pro Bowl position (SLB) to another (MLB) without at least replacing him with another Pro Bowl player at his position (SLB)? Furthermore, how can we debate this topic when it was brought up by Pastbelli? Hasn't he shown to be among the least reliable people regarding the Redskins ever?

But... as long as we are, I don't think GW would do that. I think he brought in Holdman as a first year or fall back option at MLB in case none of the other prospects pan out.

[HanburgerBum]

Let me start by saying that I'm not advocating this move, just pointing out the reasons I think it could work. And this is all assuming Barrow is gone.

I think it could work for a couple of reasons, Marcus is our best LB right now and he knows the defense. He has the size to play the Mike and he is a very good tackler. We have others with experience on the outside. Lavar made the pro bowl playing strong side and playing DE and he was moved to the weak side last year, although he didn't play much.
It may not be in Marcus' best interest but it could be in ours. I think he could easily play better than Pierce did in that role and Lavar, Marshall and/or Holdman would be fine at the Sam and the Willy.
Again its just my opinion right now.


I don't think you KNOW that Marcus will be a fine Mike, you are hoping he would be. We already KNOW that Marcus is a pro bowl Sam. Lavar has played other backer positions, but he clearly is the happiest at Willy. Holdman has played Mike in the past. So, wouldn't it make more sense to keep two stud backers (Marcus and Lavar) at the positions at which they thrive and are happy, and only experiment with one positon (Mike), instead of uprooting two or more positions for experiment (after all, we don't know that Holdman would do well at Sam).

Also, your theory seems to discount the possiblity of Lamar Marshall developing into a solid Mike. If GW thinks that can happen, I would bet my money on it.

[redskin_rich]

I don't think you KNOW that Marcus will be a fine Mike, you are hoping he would be. We already KNOW that Marcus is a pro bowl Sam. Lavar has played other backer positions, but he clearly is the happiest at Willy. Holdman has played Mike in the past. So, wouldn't it make more sense to keep two stud backers (Marcus and Lavar) at the positions at which they thrive and are happy, and only experiment with one positon (Mike), instead of uprooting two or more positions for experiment (after all, we don't know that Holdman would do well at Sam).

Also, your theory seems to discount the possiblity of Lamar Marshall developing into a solid Mike. If GW thinks that can happen, I would bet my money on it.
It's all just off season speculation, I trust that GW will put the right guys in the right spot.
I'm not sure about Marshall, I think he is solid at best, I'd rather him be a backup for all the LB positions. We will see, it will be a great competition in camp and the best player will win.

[portis2endzone]

I don't think you KNOW that Marcus will be a fine Mike, you are hoping he would be. We already KNOW that Marcus is a pro bowl Sam. Lavar has played other backer positions, but he clearly is the happiest at Willy. Holdman has played Mike in the past. So, wouldn't it make more sense to keep two stud backers (Marcus and Lavar) at the positions at which they thrive and are happy, and only experiment with one positon (Mike), instead of uprooting two or more positions for experiment (after all, we don't know that Holdman would do well at Sam).

Also, your theory seems to discount the possiblity of Lamar Marshall developing into a solid Mike. If GW thinks that can happen, I would bet my money on it.
just what i was about to say. we did it last year with AP and made him into a MLB. we can do it with lamar or holdman.

[redwolf1218]

pastabelly amazes me. he has once sentence of fact, and this that the Redskins signed Holdman. From there, he procedes to write pages of wild speculation and conjecture with no factual basis.

[DPHoo]

[DPHoo]

Lavar has played other backer positions, but he clearly is the happiest at Willy. Holdman has played Mike in the past. So, wouldn't it make more sense to keep two stud backers (Marcus and Lavar) at the positions at which they thrive and are happy, and only experiment with one positon (Mike), instead of uprooting two or more positions for experiment (after all, we don't know that Holdman would do well at Sam).

I am getting tired of trying to make sure LaVar is happy because he never is :cry: . I feel LaVar should play the middle where his disruptive nature could be channelled instead of the mental mistakes he makes playing in space.

[darksome]

I am getting tired of trying to make sure LaVar is happy because he never is :cry: . I feel LaVar should play the middle where his disruptive nature could be channelled instead of the mental mistakes he makes playing in space.

So you think he should play THE most mental position on the field? Wouldn't that contradict your last remark. MLB is the most mentally challenging of the LB positions. To be consistent with what you just said, Lavar should stay put. And even if you didn't say that, he should still stay put. His strength is on the weak-side, like MW's is on the strong-side. They are both looking at the PB in GW's system if they stay in their perspective positions.

[DPHoo]

feel the position would channel his energies in the most effective way and your best athlete on the team would be around the action always. The only question would be if he could hold up physically. :Peace:

[LATrueRedskin]

Moving Washington to the middle takes away his playmaking ability, as with LaVar. He's too good at his position right now (*cough Pro Bowl *cough) and moving him inside would negate why he is so good in the first place. I love the sound of having him and LaVar on the ends wreaking havoc both sideline-to-sideline and getting after the Quarterback. Let's not toy with our strongest asset.