Dukie Declares for Draft

[ShaggySkins]

Shavlik Randolph declared for the draft. This is a shocker, he was horrible last season. He only averaged 6 points and 4 rebounds, I have to hope for his sake he's just testing out the process. If he is actually serious about this then there must be some rift between him and Coach K or something wrong.

Randolph Declares (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/college/basketball/bal-randolph13,1,753523.story?coll=bal-sports-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=true)

[CarMike]

I agree Shaggy. I thought it was joke for sure. But its not.

With dooks incoming class I guess he knows he'll have 0 playing time next year.

And just think. At one point he was thought to be going straight to the NBA out of high school. K knows how to develope players, thats for sure.

[RedskinsDave]

I agree Shaggy. I thought it was joke for sure. But its not.

With dooks incoming class I guess he knows he'll have 0 playing time next year.

And just think. At one point he was thought to be going straight to the NBA out of high school. K knows how to develope players, thats for sure.

Oh please. Talent is talent. I submit Kwame Brown as example number one for a guy who was supposed to be something and isn't.

[CarMike]

Oh, so coaches aren't suppose to make players better? Especially the #1 ranked player in his class? Instead, he didn't even start on last years team. Which was "supposedly" weaker than any class since K's back problems in the mid '90s...

[RedskinsDave]

Oh, so coaches aren't suppose to make players better? Especially the #1 ranked player in his class? Instead, he didn't even start on last years team. Which was "supposedly" weaker than any class since K's back problems in the mid '90s...

More proof the kid just isn't as good as projected.

[smoss]

It's proven that K doesn't develop players, if they are good to great when they come in they remain that way(or get a little worse) but if they struggle early they rarely get better. He's a great at getting the most out of teams but he doesn't develop players. Shav has taken his lumps but he was a good rebounder and shot blocker and this takes away some qaulity depth up front. By the way, he did start last year(he msised alot of time w/ mono so he didn;t start for about 6 weeks) and he was going to start next year as well.

[ShaggySkins]

It's proven that K doesn't develop players, if they are good to great when they come in they remain that way(or get a little worse) but if they struggle early they rarely get better. He's a great at getting the most out of teams but he doesn't develop players. Shav has taken his lumps but he was a good rebounder and shot blocker and this takes away some qaulity depth up front. By the way, he did start last year(he msised alot of time w/ mono so he didn;t start for about 6 weeks) and he was going to start next year as well.

In his career he only averaged a little over 4 rebounds a game and about 1 block a game so how exactly does that qualify him as a good rebounder and shot blocker?

The reason he is leaving is lack of playing time. Yes he had mono mid season but he was perfectly healthy come the ACC Tournament and NCAA Tourney. He still had his minutes cut because he wasn't performing. Duke went out this year and recruited a McDonald's All American PF in Josh McRoberts (Rated #1 PF in the Country) and Jamal Boykin a guy rated 20th at PF in the Nation.

I think Coach K can clearly develop talent he has shown this but there is always going to be 1 player that a coach can't get to improve or connect to. Randolph was that player unfortunately to make up for his decrease in minutes where he best option would likely be to transfer, he is going to declare for the draft.

[RedskinsDave]

Yeah smoss, that's total bunk. You don't win as many games as Coach K has unless you can develop players. What does he do just stand there and hope for the best? I guess Wooden and Smith didn't develop player either. :banghead:

[suppitty]

Its funny because Josh McRoberts seems like a basketball clone of Shavlick. Randolph should prepare himslef for years in Europe. Too many health issues, and he just wasn't even close to being good enough to get drafted.

[smoss]

In his career he only averaged a little over 4 rebounds a game and about 1 block a game so how exactly does that qualify him as a good rebounder and shot blocker?

I don't care about his career, last year in limited minutes(b/c he's always in foul trouble) he averaged 4 boards and almost 2 blocks a game. You need some role players and he would have been a big boost to duke's chance by giving them some more quality depth.

The reason he is leaving is lack of playing time. Yes he had mono mid season but he was perfectly healthy come the ACC Tournament and NCAA Tourney. He still had his minutes cut because he wasn't performing. Duke went out this year and recruited a McDonald's All American PF in Josh McRoberts (Rated #1 PF in the Country) and Jamal Boykin a guy rated 20th at PF in the Nation.

He was going to start next year and get plenty of minutes. Don't count on these recruits to be great just yet, remember Shav was higher rated than both(in a MUCH better class) and he hasn't done much.

I think Coach K can clearly develop talent he has shown this but there is always going to be 1 player that a coach can't get to improve or connect to. Randolph was that player unfortunately to make up for his decrease in minutes where he best option would likely be to transfer, he is going to declare for the draft.

Who has he developed? Show me the player that came in that wasn't a MCD's AA and wasn't good rigth away that he developed to become good? Players are either good when they get there or not, he does not develop players. All you have to do is look at the lost of McD AA's that have sucked at duke, these are player w/ big time ability yet they haven't developed, why? b/c of K.

This is just the last decade or so:

Nate James
Chris Collins
Taymon Domzalski
Ricky Price
Shav
Casey Sanders
Michael Thompson
Steve Wojciechowski

You don't have that many MCD's busts if you can develop talent.

[smoss]

Yeah smoss, that's total bunk. You don't win as many games as Coach K has unless you can develop players. What does he do just stand there and hope for the best? I guess Wooden and Smith didn't develop player either. :banghead:

i'm not old enough to know if Wooden developed players but I believe he did but I know Dean Smith did. This isn't to say K is not a great coach, he is obviously one of the best of all time BUT he is nto a great developer of taletn and that is a fact. Dean Smith developed players who weren't good when they got to UNC and were very good when they left. Guys like Shammond Williams who couldn't play when Dean got them yet he turne dinto a useful NBA player.

prove me wrong and show me the players he developed and before you mention Shelden Williams as a non-McD AA we all know he would have been one had he not been charged w/ rape in HS.

[ShaggySkins]

I don't care about his career, last year in limited minutes(b/c he's always in foul trouble) he averaged 4 boards and almost 2 blocks a game. You need some role players and he would have been a big boost to duke's chance by giving them some more quality depth.

I'm not saying he wouldn't have helped Duke out but to say he is a good rebounder and shot blocker is wrong.

Look at his last 6 games when he was healthy he averaged 26 minutes a game. He fouled out of 2 of those games. He only averaged 2.5 rebounds in those 6 games. He also only blocked 1.6 shots in those 6 games. While only scoring 4 points per game. This is when he WAS healthy and recovered from Mono.




He was going to start next year and get plenty of minutes. Don't count on these recruits to be great just yet, remember Shav was higher rated than both(in a MUCH better class) and he hasn't done much.

No he was not going to start next year. There is a reason Coach K when out and targeted PFs in this years recruiting class.



Who has he developed? Show me the player that came in that wasn't a MCD's AA and wasn't good rigth away that he developed to become good? Players are either good when they get there or not, he does not develop players. All you have to do is look at the lost of McD AA's that have sucked at duke, these are player w/ big time ability yet they haven't developed, why? b/c of K.

This is just the last decade or so:

Nate James
Chris Collins
Taymon Domzalski
Ricky Price
Shav
Casey Sanders
Michael Thompson
Steve Wojciechowski

You don't have that many MCD's busts if you can develop talent.

Just because the guy comes in as a McDonalds All American does not mean he isn't further developed from then on. I'm not going to start pulling out names becasue I don't have time but for one example look at Redick and how he has changed over the last 3 years. Freshman year he did nothing but spot up shoot, not he is a much better defender and much better at penetrating to create his own shot.

[smoss]

I'm not saying he wouldn't have helped Duke out but to say he is a good rebounder and shot blocker is wrong.

No it's not. He was in foul trouble all the time but he was a key contributor down the stretch and also in their run to the FF 2 years ago.

He was going to start next year, it was going to be a front line of Shav, Shelden and McRoberts.

Just because the guy comes in as a McDonalds All American does not mean he isn't further developed from then on. I'm not going to start pulling out names becasue I don't have time but for one example look at Redick and how he has changed over the last 3 years. Freshman year he did nothing but spot up shoot, not he is a much better defender and much better at penetrating to create his own shot.

Does any other coach have that many near useless McD's AAs?

redick has improved a little in certain areas but he still is undisciplined and takes bad shots which leads to such low shooting %s. That is something K needed to correct and did not and even if you credit him for redick improving(Redick is still a very overrated player) that's 1 player. Show me some examples of players he has developed. I can't think of any.

[828791Redskins]

Shav has been hurt his whole college career.As for some players he developed.....Grant Hill,Corey Maggette,Elton Brand,Carlos Boozer,Chris Duhon had a good rookie season. I don't think Maryland can put a better team on the court with current Gary Williams players.Duke has also had promising players have injury problems.Just stop hating on Duke because they always win.

[DEskinsFAN]

I don't like this move for Shav. Something like 86 underclassmen have declared for the draft. That's more underclassmen than draft spots, let alone the seniors who are coming out and international players.

[smoss]

Shav has been hurt his whole college career.As for some players he developed.....Grant Hill,Corey Maggette,Elton Brand,Carlos Boozer,Chris Duhon had a good rookie season. I don't think Maryland can put a better team on the court with current Gary Williams players.Duke has also had promising players have injury problems.Just stop hating on Duke because they always win.

You made my point, he didn't develop those guys. They came in as big time players. I'm looking for the guy who came in struggling and got better each year and then made the NBA. K does not develop players which is why duke players have had trouble succeeding in the NBA. In reality the less time they spend w/ K the more chance they have of NBA success. The only 4 yr guy to have real sustained success was Grant Hill.

[RedskinsDave]

Okay we get it smoss, you are a hater. There's no point in talking to you.

[Chief Redskin]

I think Duke players are cursed. It's almost like Coach K made a deal with the devil years ago so he and the Duke program would have an unbelievable recruiting class each year. As a result, Duke players have never lived up to their potential at the pro level. Look at the freak accidents that happened to three of the best all-time Blue Devils- Bobby Hurley (freak car accident), Jay Williams (freak motorcycle accident), Grant Hill (freak ankle injury).

The rest of the players have put up decent stats (Brand, Boozer, Maggette, Hill), but have failed to lead their teams. I think Coach K has failed to develolp certain talents on purpose in an attempt to try and keep players in his program longer. All of this has back-fired and caused the Duke program to go down hill.

[RedskinsDave]

There are better Dukies in the NBA than Terps.

[smoss]

Okay we get it smoss, you are a hater. There's no point in talking to you.

What's your problem? We are debating points here and I have brought some info to back up my point while I'm waiting for you and other K fans to do the same. I NEVER said he wasn't a great coach b/c obviously he is one of the all-time best BUT he doesn't develop players and that is a fact.

[RedskinsDave]

No, people have given names and you say K didn't develop those players. Based on your criteria, there are very few coached who develop talent. I get sooo tired of people who hate Duke or Coach K judge the man's coaching based on how his guys play in the NBA and now that he has quite a few decent players, they were all just as talented when K got them as when they left. Both of those are bunk. Maybe K goes after guys who aren't as suited to the NBA so they stay for four years. Regardless, the ONLY people who question whether K can coach and/or develop players are folks on internet chat boards. You will never hear a college bball expert or fellow coach make that claim.

[Chief Redskin]

How many NBA titles have Duke players won?

Only one with Danny Ferry on the Spurs.

How many NBA titles have UNC players won?

Only thirty-eight!

Coincidence? I don't think so.

[RedskinsDave]

How many NBA titles have Duke players won?

Only one with Danny Ferry on the Spurs.

How many NBA titles have UNC players won?

Only thirty-eight!

Coincidence? I don't think so.

What does that prove? Based on smoot's logic, those UNC players obviously showed up ready for the NBA and were only biding their time in their few years at UNC. Anyways, I think it is silly to judge a college coach based on how many titles his players won in a completely different level. I guess John Thompson sucks because Pat Ewing never won a title. There's some fine reasoning there.

[Chief Redskin]

What does that prove? Based on smoot's logic, those UNC players obviously showed up ready for the NBA and were only biding their time in their few years at UNC. Anyways, I think it is silly to judge a college coach based on how many titles his players won in a completely different level. I guess John Thompson sucks because Pat Ewing never won a title. There's some fine reasoning there.

Your right, it is a little silly to judge a college coach based on how many titles his players have won at a higher level. Coach K is one of the Best college coaches of all time and no one can ever argue differently.

Often times, professionals are judged on the legacy that their apprentices leave behind. Coach K has done a great job developing players and coaches with intellectual ability. Also, you rarely hear of any Duke players being in trouble, he usually recruits quality players.

If Grant Hill didn't get injured he probally would have single handidly shattered all of the DUKE/NBA questions.

[smoss]

No, people have given names and you say K didn't develop those players.

They gave me names of players who stepped in and were big time players right away. Where is the Serge Zwikker? the Shammond Williams?

I get sooo tired of people who hate Duke or Coach K judge the man's coaching based on how his guys play in the NBA and now that he has quite a few decent players, they were all just as talented when K got them as when they left. Both of those are bunk.

It has nothing to do w/ his college coaching record, no one can take that away. What this is ab out is developing players and he does not do that. History does not lie, Randolph is the next in a long line of disappointing highly rated players that never developed under K. Either they are great when they get there or not, they don't come in struggling and then turn into good players.

Maybe K goes after guys who aren't as suited to the NBA so they stay for four years.

Shav Randolph was a potential lottery pick had he declared oput of HS. Most McD's AAs are going to be pretty good college players and he gets a ton of them so to say he recruits players who will stay for 4 years is not a good reason.

Regardless, the ONLY people who question whether K can coach and/or develop players are folks on internet chat boards. You will never hear a college bball expert or fellow coach make that claim.

That's absolutely not true, people knock his devleoping of talent. Everyone knows duke doesn't produce great pros. That doesn't take away from him winning a billion college games but he's not a developer of talent.

Also, you rarely hear of any Duke players being in trouble, he usually recruits quality players.
That is an other myth, they have had their share of jerks under K BUT it is not his fault. he tries to recruit good kids it's just some go bad.

If Grant Hill didn't get injured he probally would have single handidly shattered all of the DUKE/NBA questions.

Grant Hill had 6 healthy years and never even got his team out of the 1st round. He wasn't exaclty going to start winning Championships before he got hurt.

[Chief Redskin]

Grant Hill had 6 healthy years and never even got his team out of the 1st round. He wasn't exaclty going to start winning Championships before he got hurt.[/QUOTE]


I thought this discussion was based on Coach K developing NBA stars.
Grant Hill was the poster boy of the NBA before he got injured. The guy had 29 triple doubles in six years. The year before the injury he averaged 25.8 pts, 6.6 reb., and 5.2 assists.

You can argue that he wasn't going to start winning championships, but you cannot say that Coach K didn't help Grant Hill develop into one of the Best NBA players before he got hurt.

[RedskinsDave]

Shammond Williams? Serge Swikker? Are you serious? The more you post, the more it shows you are just trying to paint K in some negative light. You know what he does? He coaches college basketball. You know what else? He's one of the winningest coaches ever too.

link (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=list/050304/collegehoopscoaches)

[828791Redskins]

Maybe the players coach K gets to come to Duke,aren't as good as they are rated in high school,like many other recruits.So really all he does is get them to play better.I don't see why you try to single coach K out.Who cares about what happens in the N.B.A. All I know is Coach K has more N.C.A.A titles than Dean Smith,Roy Williams,and Gary Williams and thats what counts N.C.A.A championships.

[lakeskin]

If a guy succeeds in the NBA its because of himself, not what college he went to or who coached him.

So, if Kobe or Lebron played for Coach K they would have regressed and not made good pro's? If guys like Wojo and Randolph played for Dean SMith they would have been NBA all-stars? There is no such thing as a "coach who can develop NBA talent". Guys are gonna make it if they have the skills and the desire irregardless if there Coach is Dean Smith or Norman Dale.

If anything thius just shows how great of a coach Coach K is cuz he never has really had the upper echelon of talent as say a Dean Smith has.

When you compare college coaches compare their win loss records in college and the number of NCAA titles they have. The argument of who does well in the NBA is hollow.

[828791Redskins]

When you compare college coaches compare their win loss records in college and the number of NCAA titles they have. The argument of who does well in the NBA is hollow.

Thats exactly the way to look at it!

[MONK_in_HOF]

OK so I wasn't hallucinating when I saw this guys name on the ticker saturday as declaring for the draft. I thought maybe it was just a funny dream, or my local bartender serving me up too much absenth.

[smoss]

You can argue that he wasn't going to start winning championships, but you cannot say that Coach K didn't help Grant Hill develop into one of the Best NBA players before he got hurt.

Of course I can argue that, K did not develop him. Grant was grat from the moment he stepped foot in Durham. K did not turn him into a great player.

Shammond Williams? Serge Swikker? Are you serious? The more you post, the more it shows you are just trying to paint K in some negative light.

You are showing you have no idea what you are talking about. Shammond Williams was awful when he went to UNC, NOBODY else recruited him and he just got better every year until he became a decent NBA player for a while. Zwikker had 2 left feet and couldn't play at all when he got to Dean and then he was a key contributor on a FF team and became an NBA player.

Show me the similar players K has developed?


Again, this does not take away from how great a coach he is so that link is meaningless. He is an all-time great, he just doesn't develop players.

Maybe the players coach K gets to come to Duke,aren't as good as they are rated in high school,like many other recruits.So really all he does is get them to play better.

Maybe that's it, maybe that long list of McDs busts is all b/c they were overrated. It's not K's fault, he has done such a tremendous job of sending players to the NBA how could it be his fault?

If a guy succeeds in the NBA its because of himself, not what college he went to or who coached him.

In some cases that might be true but for the most part it is not. Players are still learning how to play when they get to College, michale Jordan gives Dean Smith all the credit for developing him into the greatest player of all time. Obviously Michael had all the talent in the World but Dean showed him how to play and Michael has said that if he didn't play under Dean he wouldn't have been as great as he was.

Dean also developed unknown players and made them good. You cannot take that away.

If that's the case then why did Dean send a ton mroe players to the NBA than K(and a ton more successful) when they both had a crazy amount of big time recruits during their tenures? If you don't think college coaches help develop talent you are mistaken.

When you compare college coaches compare their win loss records in college and the number of NCAA titles they have. The argument of who does well in the NBA is hollow.

I admire what Dean Smith did, he sacrificed victories to make his players better in the long run. He cared about his players not just his program which is why the UNC players of all generations under Dean are so close and why no coach has produced more NBA talent.

Dean was a great Coach and a great Man, K is a great coach.

[RedskinsDave]

I admire what Dean Smith did, he sacrificed victories to make his players better in the long run. He cared about his players not just his program which is why the UNC players of all generations under Dean are so close and why no coach has produced more NBA talent.

Dean was a great Coach and a great Man, K is a great coach.

There it all is....You are so biased it made me sick to my stomach. Just cut it out. You look silly.

[smoss]

There it all is....You are so biased it made me sick to my stomach. Just cut it out. You look silly.

Once again you have no facts so you can't civilly come back at me your argument. You are the one who looks silly b/c you have nothing to back up your statements. If you have a problem w/ it come back at me w/ some reasoning, at least others are trying while you are not which shows me you have no clue about this issue.

[RedskinsDave]

Once again you have no facts so you can't civilly come back at me your argument. You are the one who looks silly b/c you have nothing to back up your statements. If you have a problem w/ it come back at me w/ some reasoning, at least others are trying while you are not which shows me you have no clue about this issue.

No, you're little "Smith is a great man, K is a great coach" quote said all we needed to read. As I said before, you were given names and each time you claim they were as good as they were going to be the minute they showed up in Durham. The best you can do is Swikker and Shammond Williams. That's actually kind of sad. Oh wait, there was Jordan who clearly would have sucked had he gone to Duke and missed out on the tutelage of the great bleeding heart Smith.

[MONK_in_HOF]

I HATE both teams and both smith and coach k are in my top 3 of all time. Just b/c Duke's players don't excel in the NBA a lot of the time has nothing to do w/ coach K not being a good coach, if anything it shows how good a coach he is b/c of the performance he got out of them in college. NBA is all about having talent and the motivation to do something with it. It is not coach K's fault they don't pan out in the NBA, most under his tutelage do in college and his record is evidence. Hack!!uh oh, i feel sick. I am going to throw up. I can't believe I just stuck up for that munchkin. :banghead:

[smoss]

No, you're little "Smith is a great man, K is a great coach" quote said all we needed to read. As I said before, you were given names and each time you claim they were as good as they were going to be the minute they showed up in Durham. The best you can do is Swikker and Shammond Williams. That's actually kind of sad. Oh wait, there was Jordan who clearly would have sucked had he gone to Duke and missed out on the tutelage of the great bleeding heart Smith.


once again you are deflecting. The names of the players given were guys who stepped on campus and were impact players. They didn't struggle early and become good players and the amount of McD's AA's that turned out to be busts for K should tell you all you need to know.

As for Dean, it was more than just Williams and Zwikker but those were 2 examples. Most duke fans don't go way back so i didn't want to throw out names that they wouldn't recognize. How about a Warren Martin who probably couldn't make the JV team and he became a very good college player by the time he graduated, how about Scott Williams who became a solid pro and I think might even still be playing, how about a Rick Fox, how about Kevin Salvadori, Ademola Okulaja, Henrik Rodl, Steve Bucknall, Ranzino Smith, Dante Calabria, Pierce Landry, Hubert Davis, Steve Hale, Pat Sullivan, ... The list goes on and on.

These are McD' AAs from the last decade that were busts:

Nate James
Chris Collins
Taymon Domzalski
Ricky Price
Shav
Casey Sanders
Michael Thompson
Steve Wojciechowski

That is an incredibly high #.

I HATE both teams and both smith and coach k are in my top 3 of all time. Just b/c Duke's players don't excel in the NBA a lot of the time has nothing to do w/ coach K not being a good coach, if anything it shows how good a coach he is b/c of the performance he got out of them in college. NBA is all about having talent and the motivation to do something with it. It is not coach K's fault they don't pan out in the NBA, most under his tutelage do in college and his record is evidence. Hack!!uh oh, i feel sick. I am going to throw up. I can't believe I just stuck up for that munchkin

Both Smith and K have always gotten a ton of big time talent to work with, the facts are players developed and got better under Dean while for the most part they did not for duke which is why there are so many duke busts. Only 1 4 yr duke player became a good NBA player and that was Hill otherwise the only other players to have sustained success did it after leaving K as soon as possible. I don't think it's a coincidence that the succesful duke players in the NBA didn't stay around long enough to be influenced by K.

[lakeskin]

Michael Jordan also said the same thing about Stan Alback, the coach of the Bulls his rookie season. A guy who coached him for one year.

Michael Jordan could have played for Mother Theresa for 3 years and he would have ended up being a great ballplayer. The will and desire to be the best rested in Michael Jordan alone.

And Dean Smith has not developed a "ton" more NBA talent. They're pretty close especially when you consider the fact Smith has coached 10 more years than K.

[lakeskin]

Only 1 4 yr duke player became a good NBA player and that was Hill otherwise the only other players to have sustained success did it after leaving K as soon as possible. I don't think it's a coincidence that the succesful duke players in the NBA didn't stay around long enough to be influenced by K.


Laettner and Ferry didnt have succesful NBA careers? Ferry was the first pick in the draft and had a 12 year NBA career. Coach K put him in that position. But he held out, played in Italy and screwed himself. Laettner was an All-star Power Foward until he tore his achilles and now hes a valuable reserve with the Miami Heat. These players were also limited by their physical gifts. They could only be developed so much...

Shane Battier is a turining into a great pro. How about Carlos boozer? And JAy WIlliams and Bobby Hurley might have been productive pros but they werwe involved with vehicular accidents. But I guess thats Coach K's fault too.

And going by your logic we can discount all the players that left Coach Smith early becuz he didnt have an influence on them. Players like Jordan, Stackhouse and Wallace...

And look at the list of Mcdonald's all american busts period...you'll find the list to be a very long one.

[smoss]

Michael Jordan could have played for Mother Theresa for 3 years and he would have ended up being a great ballplayer. The will and desire to be the best rested in Michael Jordan alone.

I partially agree but Dean taught Micahel how to play the game and vaulable lessons that helped him become as great as he did.

And Dean Smith has not developed a "ton" more NBA talent. They're pretty close especially when you consider the fact Smith has coached 10 more years than K.

Dean didn't just produce more talent(K has a long way to catch him) but he also produced quality pros and w/ the exception of a couple of K's players he has no quality NBA players.

Laettner and Ferry didnt have succesful NBA careers? Ferry was the first pick in the draft and had a 12 year NBA career.

They were top 5 picks, they were supposed to be superstars and became medicore players. Ferry is a complete joke and Laettner had a good year or 2.

Laettner was an All-star Power Foward until he tore his achilles and now hes a valuable reserve with the Miami Heat.

He made 1 AS game and he barely plays for Miami. He could be gone tomorrow and they wouldn't notice.

Shane Battier is a turining into a great pro

Great? solid yea, great is 100% pure nonsense.

How about Carlos boozer?

Boozer is solid but has the ethics of K after what he did to Cleveland, he was supposed to be the missing piece on a Utah team that was up and coming the year before he got there but they were horrible w/ Carlos. So bad mgmt wanted to dump Carlos.

And JAy WIlliams and Bobby Hurley might have been productive pros but they werwe involved with vehicular accidents.

They MIGHT have been, probably not considering the track record(and williams wasn't a 4 yr guy).

And going by your logic we can discount all the players that left Coach Smith early becuz he didnt have an influence on them. Players like Jordan, Stackhouse and Wallace...

he made them better players and didn't stand in their way like K tries to do w/ his players like when he publicly called out Avery and Dunleavy. Dean does what's best for his players, K only cares about HIS program.

And look at the list of Mcdonald's all american busts period...you'll find the list to be a very long one.

Yeah but no coach has a list of busts near as long as K's.

[RedskinsDave]

:sleeping:

[smoss]

:sleeping:

Pay attention, you might learn something.

[RedskinsDave]

Pay attention, you might learn something.

I've learned all I need to from you....that you are a hater. No need to bother anymore.

[lakeskin]

:sleeping:

Seriously....It's obvious he has a bias.

A 12 year NBA career is a joke? OK. Did u ever stop to consider the fact that maybe the reason they were top five picks was because they played at Duke under Coach K?

Your other points have no factual basis. Utah lost because there best player missed the entire year. You contradict yourself when you say Dean had influence over guys that left early but Coach K didnt. And questioning Coach K's love for his players? :lol1:

[828791Redskins]

He's just another Duke hater trying to piss Duke fans off.Why don't you just stop.Everyone one this thread is disaggreeing with you even the non duke fans.Anything we say he will come back at us with some of his twisted logic.

[smoss]

I've learned all I need to from you....that you are a hater. No need to bother anymore.

I've larned all I need from you as you are not a real duke fan b/c you have no idea what has happened in the past and you deflect every time I ask you to bring some info. If you are incapabale of contributing stay out of the discussion.

A 12 year NBA career is a joke? OK. Did u ever stop to consider the fact that maybe the reason they were top five picks was because they played at Duke under Coach K?

yeah they were top 5 picks b/c they played for K :rolleyes:

Ferry is a joke, he's been a little used bench player most of his career, b/c he continues to hang on doesn't mean he's good pro. He never contributed to a title, he never made an AS game, he never did anything and the hopes for him were sky high when he was drafted in the mid 80s.

Your other points have no factual basis. Utah lost because there best player missed the entire year.

Then why di Utah want to get rid of Boozer? I said Boozer is a solid pro but he's not great and he was a major disappointment in Utah last year.

You contradict yourself when you say Dean had influence over guys that left early but Coach K didnt. And questioning Coach K's love for his players?

I go by what I see. I have seen Dean's players be successful whether they stay 4 or leave a year or 2 early while only1 player had real success in the NBA staying 4 years, the others had more success the less time they stayed w/ K.

Why shouldn't I question K? He hols this big PC to support Elton Brand in '99 as he was leaving early then he turns his back on Maggette and Avery(publicly criticizing Avery and Avery's Mom accused K of LYING to them about his draft status so he would stay) b/c he didn't expect them to go then a few years later he "supports" Boozer and Williams but criticizes Dunleavy b/c Dunleavy was supposed to come back. Micahle Jordan WANTED to go back to UNC for his senior year, Dean convinced him to go b/c his stock was so high. K never would have done that, he would have told Michael if he left he'd be a 2nd rd pick :lol1:

He's just another Duke hater trying to piss Duke fans off.Why don't you just stop.Everyone one this thread is disaggreeing with you even the non duke fans.

I'm not trying to anger anyone, I am coming here w/ FACTS. it's not my fault you supposed duke fans either do not know the facts or are embarrassed by the facts. This was not meant as a duke bashing thread, it was a comment on how he develops players and judging by his track record it's obvious I am correct. Step back, take off the duke glasses and look at the facts.

[RedskinsDave]

I've been a Duke fan since you were 9 years old. I don't need to judge Coach K by how his players have done in the NBA. I judge by how they do in college and life afterwards. I'm also not going to get into pissing on Dean Smith because I'm not a hater like you and I appreciate a good man when I see one. Talk to me in a few years when K passes Smith as the all-time winningest coach if your head doesn't explode when it happens.

The problem many of you UNC fans have is you see college as a minor league system for the NBA. That is the reason you lost your whole team this year.

[RedskinsDave]

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/readers/collegehoop/coaches.html

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/espn25/story?page=listranker/25bestcoaches

[MONK_in_HOF]

Both Smith and K have always gotten a ton of big time talent to work with, the facts are players developed and got better under Dean while for the most part they did not for duke which is why there are so many duke busts. Only 1 4 yr duke player became a good NBA player and that was Hill otherwise the only other players to have sustained success did it after leaving K as soon as possible. I don't think it's a coincidence that the succesful duke players in the NBA didn't stay around long enough to be influenced by K.

I do agree that Duke and UNC get the pick of the litter in college bball, which I hate, but their teams and their coaches earned that reputation for the school that made it this way.

Most players that leave earlier is b/c they have more talent or are in more need of money (not grant hill). I don't think this has anything to do w/ the coach impeding their improvement.

As much as I would like to I can no longer argue that coach K is a good coach just b/c of the talent he gets. Not after this past year. Now I would argue his team gets more calls but that is a different story.

[MONK_in_HOF]

Then why did Utah want to get rid of Boozer? I said Boozer is a solid pro but he's not great and he was a major disappointment in Utah last year.

Boozer was expendable b/c they have 2 other players at the PF position in Okur a decent player and Humpries who has potential. I am not really sure why they would sign Boozer and Okur and then draft Humphries all in the same year.


Why shouldn't I question K? He hols this big PC to support Elton Brand in '99 as he was leaving early then he turns his back on Maggette and Avery(publicly criticizing Avery and Avery's Mom accused K of LYING to them about his draft status so he would stay) b/c he didn't expect them to go then a few years later he "supports" Boozer and Williams but criticizes Dunleavy b/c Dunleavy was supposed to come back. Micahle Jordan WANTED to go back to UNC for his senior year, Dean convinced him to go b/c his stock was so high. K never would have done that, he would have told Michael if he left he'd be a 2nd rd pick :lol1: .

All those guys you listed he advised to stay weren't ready yet in his opinion and he didn't think it was in their best interest in leaving. I bet Avery wishes he would have listened to K now. I am sure he would rather have experienced players stay but what does it matter to him if he can just pull in another McD AA to replace that person?

I just can't agree w/ the logic that coach K isn't a good coach b/c his players don't pan out in the NBA most of the time. I have really really hated coach K ever since he knocked NAVY out of the NCAA's back in the D. Robinson era but I do respect what he has done. The Lakers must have thought he was a good coach also.

I would argue that Gary Williams is as good of a coach b/c he annually gets more out of what he has to work with. That is my VERY homer bias talking though and I don't expect any non-MD fans to agree. Especially after last year.

[ShaggySkins]

The fact is you don't win as much as Coach K or Dean Smith have without being both a great coach and a great developer of talent. If it is such common fact that Coach K is poor at developing talent how come every year he has a top 5 recruiting class and every year his programs are in the top 15 in the country? If he couldn't develop talents then these Mcdonald's all americans he gets every single year would go to another school to play as their ultimate goal is to be in the NBA. Yet every year he has multiple McDonalds All Americans because they believe there best chance to develop and advance to the NBA is by being coached by Coach K. If he has such poor developmental skills his program would have dropped long ago but it is still a top program and likely will be in the Top 3 next season.

The fact is by using how his players have succeeded in the NBA you are ignoring the fact that VERY FEW players have All Star Careers in the NBA. Are you going to say John Chaney isn't a great coach or can't develop players because Temple doesn't produce very many NBA players? Or that Bobby Knight can't develop talent because none of his recent Indiana or Texas Tech players haven't been great stars? Its ridiculous to say Coach K doesn't develop talent because he hasn't produced NBA all stars.

[smoss]

I've been a Duke fan since you were 9 years old. I don't need to judge Coach K by how his players have done in the NBA.

Once again, I NEVER said he wasn't a great coach but it's not debateable that he doesn't develop players and the fact that you cannot provide a good argument reinforces my point.

I'm also not going to get into pissing on Dean Smith because I'm not a hater like you and I appreciate a good man when I see one.

I respect Coach K as a coach but he has done some rotten things, I respect the heck out of Dean for what he achievd on and what he stood for off the court.

Talk to me in a few years when K passes Smith as the all-time winningest coach if your head doesn't explode when it happens.

It will be a bit of a sham if K and/or Knight passes him b/c K and Knight got alot of W's at Army while all of Dean's wins came at the highest level.

The problem many of you UNC fans have is you see college as a minor league system for the NBA. That is the reason you lost your whole team this year.

The reason UNC lost so many players is b/c at UNC they care about the players and not just the program. Roy could have sold a few of them on returning but he recommended they go and I commend him on that. Do you think he wnate dthem all back? of course, he could have had an all-time great team and would have been a huge favorite to repeat so I commend him on thinking of his players instead of himself.

How can K be ahead of Wooden for big game coaches? K has lost alot as the favorite, he has been to the FF many, many times and haslost most of those times just like Dean did. To say K is the best big game coac is laughable.

your second link is the one that ranks Dean #1, thanks for the link!

Most players that leave earlier is b/c they have more talent or are in more need of money (not grant hill). I don't think this has anything to do w/ the coach impeding their improvement.

Sometimes players leave b/c of money but not most of the time at duke and UNC. Elton Brand's family wasn't poor, Dunleavy's family was rich as was Jason Williams' family. It wasn't b/c they were poor, it was b/c they had an opportunity to ne drafted high and maybe as high as they could be drafted. Remember Scotty Thurman(duke fans should)? He was a considerd a lottery pick had he come out after his Jr. year but he stayed and then went undrafted. Sometimes you have to look at what's good for the player instead of just what's good for the program.

As much as I would like to I can no longer argue that coach K is a good coach just b/c of the talent he gets. Not after this past year. Now I would argue his team gets more calls but that is a different story.

You do realize he had more McD's AA than any other team(including National Champion UNC)? He did a good job this year but it's hysterical the butt kissing for him. Most coaches would kill for the talent he had last year. he had 2 all-americans, the ACC POY, the ACC DPOY and 5 or 6 McD's AA's.

All those guys you listed he advised to stay weren't ready yet in his opinion and he didn't think it was in their best interest in leaving.

That's great and that's ok BUT he didn't have to rip them publicly and William Avery's Mother contends that K lied to them about his draft status t keep him at duke. Is that the right thing to do?

bet Avery wishes he would have listened to K now.

Why? He made more money than he ever would have had he stayed. His stock was as high as it was going to get.

I just can't agree w/ the logic that coach K isn't a good coach b/c his players don't pan out in the NBA most of the time.

Again, I NEVER said K wasn't good- K is an all-time GREAT Coach. I just said he doesn't develop players and his track record speaks for itself.

I have really really hated coach K ever since he knocked NAVY out of the NCAA's back in the D. Robinson era but I do respect what he has done

I respect what he has done, I respect him as a Coach. He is a GREAT Coach.

The Lakers must have thought he was a good coach also.

That was another sham by K, he made it public so he could feel the love and let the new Pres know who was boss. He never had intentions of leaving so he never should have made it public and put his players, recruits and fans through that gut wrenching week.

I would argue that Gary Williams is as good of a coach b/c he annually gets more out of what he has to work with. That is my VERY homer bias talking though and I don't expect any non-MD fans to agree. Especially after last year.

Gary is a great coach as well just not as great. Gary does a tremendous job as a coach and he develops talent. he doesn't get the McD's AA's K does but he develops lesser known players into very good players.

[smoss]

The fact is you don't win as much as Coach K or Dean Smith have without being both a great coach and a great developer of talent. If it is such common fact that Coach K is poor at developing talent how come every year he has a top 5 recruiting class and every year his programs are in the top 15 in the country?

He's a great recruiter, he gets great talent and if they are great right away they stay that way but if not they don't become great.

If he has such poor developmental skills his program would have dropped long ago but it is still a top program and likely will be in the Top 3 next season

Developing talent and coaching are 2 different things, the man can coach. He has a ton of talent and coaches it well, he doesn't make individuals better though. He can adapt as well as any coach ever.

The fact is by using how his players have succeeded in the NBA you are ignoring the fact that VERY FEW players have All Star Careers in the NBA.

I'm not just talking abouit All Stars(though Dean has more than any coach) but he has such highly rated talent that fails to become good playedrs in the NBA.

Are you going to say John Chaney isn't a great coach or can't develop players because Temple doesn't produce very many NBA players?

I don't think John Chaney is a great coach and he has had a ton of players in the NBA.

Or that Bobby Knight can't develop talent because none of his recent Indiana or Texas Tech players haven't been great stars?

Knight rarely gets the big time recruits. he has lesser players play above their heads, he is also a great coach though he has lost alot despite his fluky Sweet 16 appearance this year. Knight is a better teacher of basketball but K is a better college coach.

[RedskinsDave]

Here ya go. You're drinking it.

http://www.kraft.com/100/art/pics/pickoolaidmanL.jpg

[ShaggySkins]

My point is if Coach K could not develop these players then they wouldn't continually be going to play for him. If this is such common knowledge like you pretend it to be then these McDonalds AA's every single year would not be signing with Duke.

[smoss]

My point is if Coach K could not develop these players then they wouldn't continually be going to play for him. If this is such common knowledge like you pretend it to be then these McDonalds AA's every single year would not be signing with Duke.

His teams win and that intoxicates recruits plus he is a great salesman. If it was based on NBA success he wouldn't get those players. It's a great program to be a part of, players play almost every game on Nat'l TV, they play in the Tourney every year, make the FF every few years.

[MONK_in_HOF]

That's great and that's ok BUT he didn't have to rip them publicly and William Avery's Mother contends that K lied to them about his draft status t keep him at duke. Is that the right thing to do?

Why? He made more money than he ever would have had he stayed. His stock was as high as it was going to get.


I don't recall coach K ripping anybody publicly but I would love to read the quotes if he did. I think Avery definitely had the potential to get better, although he was a selfish player and didn't appear willing to conform to his role as PG on the team. He was a shoot first PG, but I think he would have at least maintained his draft status. Plus he did well enough in college or showed enough potential (which is what the NBA draft is all about) to get drafted where he did despite the fact the majority thought he was making a mistake. Wouldn't the responsibility be on the PRO coach to further develop that talent? Or was coach K supposed to fully develop him in the short time he had him?

I don't know Avery's mother but he was a crybaby at times and I can't put a lot of faith in claims from a mother backing a disgruntled son. Did she determine that coach K tried to purposly mislead Avery's on his draft status?? Or is this more likely how he and/or his agent conveyed the situation to her?

Plus I don't think it was coach K who was the driving force behind dissemenating the story that the Lakers were after him.

Once again I am feeling sick. I can't keep defending this man. My friends would be so ashamed. :banghead:

[BurgundyNGold]

I cannot believe the legs on this thread. Well, at least folks have kept it civil.

EDIT: BTW, I hate both Duke and UNC, but Dean Smith is the definition of the word "legend" in college basketball. Continue...

Go Terps! :D

[MONK_in_HOF]

Smoss I do agree he has it easier than other coaches due to the recruits he pulls in, however he built that over time. Recruits weren't drooling to go there when he started like they are now.
I agree that Bob Knight is every bit as good of a coach as K. But recruiting is at least half the battle in college sports.

[828791Redskins]

Once again I am feeling sick. I can't keep defending this man. My friends would be so ashamed. :banghead:

Even Maryland fans have to step in and dispel the crap your talking.He's a great coach,great motivator,great teacher,great man.

[smoss]

I don't know Avery's mother but he was a crybaby at times and I can't put a lot of faith in claims from a mother backing a disgruntled son. Did she determine that coach K tried to purposly mislead Avery's on his draft status?? Or is this more likely how he and/or his agent conveyed the situation to her?

Here's an article on the situation:

http://augustasports.com/stories/082999/oth_180-4085.001.shtml

Plus I don't think it was coach K who was the driving force behind dissemenating the story that the Lakers were after him.

Was it the lakers who held a PC to announce he was offered the job? K was 100% behind that publicity stunt.

I cannot believe the legs on this thread. Well, at least folks have kept it civil.

I agree, we can have different opinions and debate our opinions. it doesn't have to get nasty.

EDIT: BTW, I hate both Duke and UNC, but Dean Smith is the definition of the word "legend" in college basketball. Continue...

K is also a legend in CBB, he is right up there w/ Dean, Wooden and Rupp as the 4 best CBB coaches of all-time.

[smoss]

Duke F Shavlik Randolph is in a similar situation--he is leaving, essentially, because he has not been able to fit the model that coach Mike Krzyzewski wants. Says one NBA personnel executive, "Being at Duke probably hurt him. Coach K tried to make him a standard back-to-the-basket big man, but this was a big guy who could shoot coming out of high school." The executive says he hopes the same thing does not happen to incoming Duke fr eshman PF Josh McRoberts. . . .

The above quote is from the article below:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=insidedishunhappycollege&prov=tsn&type=lgns

[RedskinsDave]

hR poster smoss is obsessed with slandering Mike Krzyzewski for no apparent reason (except the obvious one). He is posting what he does apparently because he is a hater and fits into the hater mold perfectly. We think his posting was hurt by his time spent at jealousy.com. Says one hater expert, "Being a UNC fan probably hurt him. He was unable to see that when you win as many games as Coach K has, you clearly develop players. He probably thinks Bobby Knight and Lute Olsen win because they just recruit well." The expert hopes the same thing doesn't happen to incoming poster deansmithismydaddy.

The above quote is from my own mind where, no matter how much I don't like a guy like John Chaney, I know that when you win that many games you can coach (which ALWAYS includes developing players).

[smoss]

The above quote is from my own mind where, no matter how much I don't like a guy like John Chaney, I know that when you win that many games you can coach (which ALWAYS includes developing players).

Once again I provide something relevant and you state your opinion w/ nothing backing it up. I am still waiting for you to give me the list of the players that started off struggling at duke and developed into good players by the time they left. The quote in my last post was from an NBA Executive and it reinforces what I was talking about.

[RedskinsDave]

I'm still waiting for you to show me how someone can win that many games in a sport if all they do is throw players on a court and let them be themselves. Oh wait, you can't so STOP IT. Can I get front row seats to watch your head explode when Coach K becomes the all time winningest coach?

[smoss]

I'm still waiting for you to show me how someone can win that many games in a sport if all they do is throw players on a court and let them be themselves. Oh wait, you can't so STOP IT. Can I get front row seats to watch your head explode when Coach K becomes the all time winningest coach?
It won't bother me when he becomes the all time winningest coach b/c it will be tainted w/ all the W's at Army. When he passes Dean's wins at UNC w/ only his wins at duke then it will be a sad day but like I have written before K is a great coach. He puts his program ahead of developing players which is why he doesn't develop them. Just b/c one wins alot doesn't mean he develops players, year after year he gets the best players in the Country- some pan out and he wins w/ them while the others are tossed aside. Those are the facts and obviously you agree b/c you can't seem to state a good argument to support K.

[smoss]

I wasn't going to post this as I found it the other day but I will. It's an article on the '94-'95 season w/ some mentions of what he did to poor Pete Gaudet. Here's a nice quote:

Though the four wins and 15 losses under Gaudet in 1995 were removed from Krzyzewski's coaching record, Duke does not list Gaudet among its head basketball coaches. Nor does Gaudet appear among the 19 former coaches and players included in Krzyzewski's "coaching tree" even though Krzyzewski once referred to him as "my main guy."

Ahh the class of Coach K :rolleyes:


Click the link for the entire article:

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/2434313p-8838843c.html

[RedskinsDave]

It won't bother me when he becomes the all time winningest coach b/c it will be tainted w/ all the W's at Army.

Tainted by wins at a school where it is hard to win and you can't recruit? That's rich.

[smoss]

Tainted by wins at a school where it is hard to win and you can't recruit? That's rich.

It's low level CBB where the athletes aren't nearly as good and the coaching advantage can be greater(your boy John Chaney also did a high % of his winning at a low level college which is why he has 700+ wins and is in the HOF). He obsiously had a huge edge over whoever he was coaching so it was definitely easier to win at a place like Army(add in the players are already disciplined and that's a good combo w/ a great coach).

[RedskinsDave]

It's low level CBB where the athletes aren't nearly as good and the coaching advantage can be greater(your boy John Chaney also did a high % of his winning at a low level college which is why he has 700+ wins and is in the HOF). He obsiously had a huge edge over whoever he was coaching so it was definitely easier to win at a place like Army(add in the players are already disciplined and that's a good combo w/ a great coach).

Coaching advantage can be greater? What coaching advantage? All K does is put 5 guys on the floor and let them play the game the way they are naturally inclined to unless of course he jumps in to stunt their basketball growth.

Ahh, I see now. The Army players, outside of being non-scholarship athletes, were able to get K wins because they were already disciplined. Wow. :rolleyes:

I'd say it would have been far easier to pad one's winning record by coaching in a premier D-I program in an era where mid-majors never got any of the blue chip prospects and there were only 10 legitimate programs to compete against each year.

[smoss]

I'd say it would have been far easier to pad one's winning record by coaching in a premier D-I program in an era where mid-majors never got any of the blue chip prospects and there were only 10 legitimate programs to compete against each year.

The difference is Dean didn't schedule 90% cupckaes in the non-conf like K has been doing for a while now.

He had a huge advantage b/c the man is a great coach coaching against inferior coaches. The players were all in the same area athletically so the coaching advantage for K mad it easier. The man can coach his teams to wins but he can't develop players, it's a fact. You can't seem to explain to me why it isn't true.

[akhhorus]

This is a foolish debate, as much as I hate Duke, K is a great coach. Does he schedule cupcakes early? Sure, but they all do. Why don't you look at UMD(how many times can you play Maryland-Eastern Shore in a decade), UNC, G-Town, anyone's early non conference schedule? All you have to do is look at two stats:
-Duke's record against the ACC recently(last 6-7 years or so) except for their record vs. Maryland.(Which is heavily in favor of Duke)
-How many Duke players do well in the NBA.(Few if any)

Duke is a great program and K is a great coach. This past season was the season where everyone was sure Duke was finished, they didn't have the talent and were a very young team, yet all he did was win the ACC Title and make the Sweet 16. What a crappy year(lol).

[RedskinsDave]

Biased, party of one, your table is ready. :banghead:

90% cupcakes now? Next you're going to tell me that K has the baskets rigged so that Duke opponents are shooting at a harder basket or that Cameron has special hydraulics under the floor to create dead spots where it hurts the opposition.

[smoss]

This is a foolish debate, as much as I hate Duke, K is a great coach

I agree, I never said he wasn't great. I have repeatedly said he IS an all-time great coach.

Does he schedule cupcakes early? Sure, but they all do. Why don't you look at UMD(how many times can you play Maryland-Eastern Shore in a decade), UNC, G-Town, anyone's early non conference schedule?

That was in response to an earlier post about how easy Dean had it playing lesser teams b/c of the scholarship situation back in his day, the point was Dean always had tough scheds and K used to but in recent years he has lessened the load to load up on W's before the ACC season. Just ask Lute Olsen, they were working on a deal to schedule a series but K refused to play at Arizona, he wanted UA to go to Cameron but the other game would be on a neautral court.

This past season was the season where everyone was sure Duke was finished, they didn't have the talent and were a very young team, yet all he did was win the ACC Title and make the Sweet 16. What a crappy year(lol).

They had more McDonald's AA's than ANY team including the National Champion UNC Tar Heels. They had plenty of talent, he just can't develop it so the players that were good remained good and the busts stay lousy and it made it look like they had less talent when in relaity 90% of the programs would kill to have the talent he had last year. By the way, he had the ACC POY and ACC DPOY. Not bad for no talent. Also, he was a #1 seed. A sweet 16 apperance isn't great as a 1 seed and for the 3rd time this decade he lost in the S16 as a 1 seed and only THREE times in the past 11 seasons has he guided duke past the Sweet 16.

[ShaggySkins]

Wow I've been gone for 2 weeks and this thread isn't dead yet.

[smoss]

Wow I've been gone for 2 weeks and this thread isn't dead yet.


Huh? The last post before yours was on 5/23, that's almost 3 weeks ago.

[ShaggySkins]

Huh? The last post before yours was on 5/23, that's almost 3 weeks ago.

Ok 3 weeks ago, cut me a break its summer and I was taking final exams for atleast 1 of those weeks. :)

[smoss]

Ok 3 weeks ago, cut me a break its summer and I was taking final exams for atleast 1 of those weeks. :)

Consider this your final break :lol1:

[828791Redskins]

Randolph said he leaning towards coming back to Duke next year,he's been and contact with coach K throughout the whole process.Coach K also welcomes him back.

[The Skinsinator]

http://sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/8584072

Hes staying in the draft.

[smoss]

Randolph said he leaning towards coming back to Duke next year,he's been and contact with coach K throughout the whole process.Coach K also welcomes him back.


You bought that line of BS? :lol3: That's the problem, most people buy K's BS and can't see him for the con man he really is. He was doing cartwheels in his office when Shav declared and knew he was never coming back but he played the game and gave that beautiful press release about Shav :rolleyes:

[RedskinsDave]

You bought that line of BS? :lol3: That's the problem, most people buy K's BS and can't see him for the con man he really is. He was doing cartwheels in his office when Shav declared and knew he was never coming back but he played the game and gave that beautiful press release about Shav :rolleyes:

I love how you are allowed to hate K based on crap you read written by fellow haters yet others can't respect the man for being a leader and a winner. Get over it. You don't know K and you don't know how he thinks. Stop acting as if you do. You look like a little little man because of it.

[smoss]

I love how you are allowed to hate K based on crap you read written by fellow haters yet others can't respect the man for being a leader and a winner. Get over it. You don't know K and you don't know how he thinks. Stop acting as if you do. You look like a little little man because of it.

You obviously do not read my posts, I said he is a great coach but that doesn't mean I agree w/ his method.

[akhhorus]

A UNC friend of mine sent me this about Shavilk Randolph declaring for the draft:

Top ten things that crossed my mind when I heard Shavlik Randolph
declared for the draft:

10. In which sport?

9. In which country?

8. How brave of him to join the armed forces.

7. April 1st was weeks ago.

6. Where will Duke find another worthless white stiff to replace him?

5. I wonder which was harder for Coach K; convincing him to come to Duke
3 years ago, or convincing him to leave now.

4. Josh McRoberts must want his number.

3. Shavlik must be a math major -- he obviously understands "addition by
subtraction".

2. His sculpted physique and mental toughness will allow him to dominate
the NBA.

And the number 1 thing that crossed my mind when I heard Shavlik Randolph
declared for the draft:

1. What a shame; Duke is really going to miss his...uh...give me a
minute, I'll think of something.

[RedskinsDave]

You obviously do not read my posts, I said he is a great coach but that doesn't mean I agree w/ his method.

You can say it all you want but your continued postings on hating all things "K" contradict that.

[smoss]

You can say it all you want but your continued postings on hating all things "K" contradict that.

His record is not debateable so obviously he is a great coach, I'm just not a fan of the way he has gotten there. I think he is a complete phony.

[828791Redskins]

You bought that line of BS? :lol3: That's the problem, most people buy K's BS and can't see him for the con man he really is. He was doing cartwheels in his office when Shav declared and knew he was never coming back but he played the game and gave that beautiful press release about Shav :rolleyes:
Sure,sure.......you just twist the facts however you want to.I think the hate has infected your judgement.

[GibbsRules!]

Great news for Shavlik!

Danny Ferry is the new GM for the Cleveland Cavaliers. Shavlik has a chance after all :D

I also heard Ferry is working the phones trying to get a hold of Trajon Langdon...anyone seen or heard from him?