did taylor show up yesterday?

[the tribe]

I am seriously dredding what I think the answer is to this. I know that he was supposed to show up to OTA's....but did he? He has the ability to be a force to be reckoned with in this leaque but he is by no means there after one year and has no business disrepecting one of the greatest coaches in history by not returning his calls or disrespecting the redskins as a team. Does anyone have info on this?

[Dept_of_Defense]

I am seriously dredding what I think the answer is to this. I know that he was supposed to show up to OTA's....but did he? He has the ability to be a force to be reckoned with in this leaque but he is by no means there after one year and has no business disrepecting one of the greatest coaches in history by not returning his calls or disrespecting the redskins as a team. Does anyone have info on this?
He didn't show up yesterday.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/17/AR2005051701249.html
________
Are condoms halal (http://www.rehab-forum.com/opium-rehab/3847-condom-use-halal-haram.html)

[BigPlayJay]

According to Clinton Portis (who seems to be his spokesman) he will not be showing up until possibly training camp, hoepfully mini-camp.

Portis says Taylor is burned out on football??????

[PennSkinsFan]

Most likely, will not start in the pre-season and maybe opener, if Gibb shistory repeats.

Taylor actually baffles me. He cires and whines about how he got a raw deal with the media, got off to a bad start, but ye, he does this crap. What does he seriosuly expect???? Taylor is no doubt our major, main head case on this team.

[skins111111]

welcome the tribe......doesn't look good......but hey if he is burnt out and lost his passion for the game maybe the best thing for him and the team is for a little R&R.............if he wants to redo his contract after 1 year maybe Dan could buy him a flatscreen :) ....seriously

[NamVet4]

Welcome the tribe ! Glad you joined us !
Heck of a good time and topic to start off with.......:)

[PennSkinsFan]

welcome the tribe......doesn't look good......but hey if he is burnt out and lost his passion for the game maybe the best thing for him and the team is for a little R&R.............if he wants to redo his contract after 1 year maybe Dan could buy him a flatscreen :) ....seriously
That is actually funny. He has only been in the NFL one year and he is burnt out????? He will have a long life ahead of him. Looks like were finally getting burned by the head case bug.

[skins111111]

That is actually funny. He has only been in the NFL one year and he is burnt out????? He will have a long life ahead of him. Looks like were finally getting burned by the head case bug.

IMO this could be the best case cenario......it is a long hard road to get to where he is at..........I don't know how much of his heart and sole he put into football on his journey here but it was probably a fair bit to be as good as he is..........he is definatly immature but he has some of the best coaches and veterans at his disposel, all he has to do is use them.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

Yeah, this year he won't start right away, he will play, but it will affect his stats for the way that people say, played in __ games and started __. I feel like here is a guy who is potential Hall of Fame material, yet he can't keep his head in the game. He might not make a four year career. I think he needs to learn some humility and be humble. He needs to think about what is really important in his future and disconnect himself with Miami and step up to the pros. I want this guy to have longevity, but how can you when your MIA, even from your coaches call. I think Sean's dad should step in and Smack him in the back of the head.

[joethefan]

I think we should not be down on him....know one knows what is going on...I think Gibbs is handling this very delicately because he is young and does not want to put him in a Kwame Brown situation....

Although I am not happy, I do hope that he can get some support from his teammates...

I saw on the Network where there was a guy who played for the Broncos...A rookie at the time.He walked out of training camp and disappeared for two days....Know one knew where he was. Then when he came back, the team surrounded him with compassion and understanding...and also allowed him to be captain for a day..(the day he returned). I though that was special..instead of coming down on him, they embraced him....Love that kinda stuff.
That's why I think Gibbs is handleing this with such delicacy...

[CNYSkinFan]

I think we are all getting a little ahead of ourselves on the burnout thing. Remember this came from Portis who likes to talk and see his junk in the newspaper the next day.

I am telling you Taylor and Rosenhaus are setting this up for next year. He will be here for mini camp 7-17

[Redblood]

Does anyone have info on this?


Your suspicion was correct. S. Taylor is absent. The good news, however is that TC doesn't start until ...........................................ummmm July!

Games don't start until after TC and Preseason.

[darksome]

Welcome to the tribe!

Ok ladies and gents, now that you have had your say, let me give you the "keeping it real" version.

Sean Taylor and Drew probably schemed this up as soon as Drew came back onboard. This seems pretty deliberate to me, to get the crowd going, and assess the fallout, without ACTUALLY holding out. This is as close as they will come to testing the Redskins as to how they would be impacted by ST holding out, and ST's value to the team. They wanted to see if the Redskins thought he would holdout, if they would work on a new deal because of the threat of it.

Now that the Redskins have shown they won't, they have to make it seem like the young man just got some rookie jitters about football and the whole NFL experience. A possibility, and believable to onlookers, because he has made some immature choices up to this point. So while it is not typical for a guy this young to be that way, they might could sell it about Sean. CP is doing his part to help out the fellow U teammate, because he doesn't want to see him alienated on the team for pulling a very bad contract manuever this early in his deal/career. It makes him look selfish, and so they had to spin something like this, however far-fetched, to draw attention from what they really were trying to do, because that makes him look worse. The not showing up thus far part just reinforces that story. That is also why they had to keep him away from the other Miami players down there, so it would look even more so that he was in seclusion and had other problems, mysterious. Possibly even get the sympathy vote, and wipe out the looming "selfish, villain" look he has now. If you stop to think about it, this sounds very much true. Also, you notice the papers haven't exactly been running away with this story. Everybody has pretty much kept this under radar. It's coming to a close real soon. People may doubt his story, but wouldn't know for sure, and basically have to accept it for whatever he said.

Drew has already seen what alienation from aggressive contract manuevers can do to T.O.'s rep on a team. But he knows that T.O., because of longevity, and skills displayed over time, can bounce back from that just by showing up and making plays. Donovan has pretty much spelled that out. It is too early in Sean Taylor's career to lay that kind of drama on him. He might not recover his "rising star", if he did. They took a shot at a new deal, crashed and burned, now they are going to come to camp. By mid-season, it will be like this never happened, and Sean will be busting heads again.

He will not miss training camp. They took a shot, missed, now they will move on. Heck, even you haters will be loving him by mid-season.

Now, didn't I tell you that he will be here?

[redwolf1218]

Poor, poor Sean...love him, stroke him, hug him, hold his hand... :rolleyes:

i'm pretty burned out on work too but then again i dont get to play the best game in the friggin world.

[darksome]

I am telling you Taylor and Rosenhaus are setting this up for next year. He will be here for mini camp 7-17

Yup, test the waters now, know the Redskins will not fold this early, but would not want the headache year after year, so they reward the young man for stellar play two years in a row and say it is JUST to give him a new deal because he deserves it and might not have chosen the best agent in the past. That way they don't look like they were bullied, and are just rewarding him for good play and a bad original deal. Also, it is more cap-friendly.

[dirthogs]

Darksome, great post you hit it right on the head. Portis who should be ST agent along with mouth piece has stated Taylor will be in on time and ready to roll. Not exactly something that gets said during a holdout.

[LATrueRedskin]

No one who saw Taylor play last year is a "hater" now. With players and agents nowadays, what's reported in the newspaper doesn't mean a thing. The kid should be here, and he's not. I don't care if he's "officially" a hold out or not, the fact is he isn't here. What's that say to Jansen, Thomas, Portis, and others who are at their job working hard in order to turn it around next year? That "burntout" excuse is laughable.

[darksome]

Poor, poor Sean...love him, stroke him, hug him, hold his hand... :rolleyes:

i'm pretty burned out on work too but then again i dont get to play the best game in the friggin world.

Hey Red, you think I can call in and tell them that? I'm burned out?

The only question really would be how hard they will slam the phone, after they muster enough strength up from laughing at me!


:lol1:

[LATrueRedskin]

Hey Red, you think I can call in and tell them that? I'm burned out?

The only question really would be how hard they will slam the phone, after they muster enough strength up from laughing at me!


:lol1:

Exactly.

[redwolf1218]

its like Gibbs said the other day, something like "we pay them millions of dollars and then we have to call and beg them to show up".

[darksome]

Exactly.

Laughable is something you can recover from though LA.

But a selfish contract manuever, T.O. style, after a year, will alienate you.

They don't want that, he is too young. They just put this spin on it to take the other one off. A dumb mistake, beats out a selfish one in team ball anyday. Better for you to laugh or pity him, than to hate him and revile him.

Think about it.

He'll be here by June or July, whenever the real mandatory stuff happens.

[darksome]

its like Gibbs said the other day, something like "we pay them millions of dollars and then we have to call and beg them to show up".

I think they know everybody will think it was a pseudo-holdout, but they wouldn't be able to say for sure. It was a way to test the waters. Nothing more. They knew he would not drop far off the path by missing OTAs. Only hurt his rep a little, but not something he couldn't recover from.

In order to sell this story, he had to be in isolation. So no phone calls and no hanging around other U guys. He ain't depressed. You heard reports of him partying right?

It's politics Red. Nothing but manuevering and testing the waters. Nothing more. As fans, it sucks, but when millions are to be made or had, who knows what they would do in a similar circumstance? Easy to say that from our seat behind the desk. Know what I mean?

As long as he doesn't hurt the team, just his image - play ball!

[redskinz#1fan]

We all just need to wait until the mandatory training begins. If he isn't at camp then, we should start to worry. Some people handle things differently then others. The kid may be making millions of dollars to play ball, but he is still a person. He did have a crazy year last year, even though he brought most of it upon himself. Maybe he really does need a chance to unwind and get himself ready mentally for the rest of his career. Just a thought! And I am not making excuses for the kid, because I believe that he should be there. The old saying speaks for itself, "practice makes perfect." :banghead:

[redwolf1218]

this whole thread is making me feel really burned out on work. i'd rather be outside playing football. :inkston:

[NamVet4]

I don't hate Taylor; I just don't think much of his character and commitment.
He is not in violation of his contract, yet. Neither is he a super star, yet! Except perhaps in his own mind! He is not even an average winning player. Right now, IMHO, he is an unproven jock who has little in the way to commend him to the fans. Point: In 15 years will his name be among the ones we vote on for Best in the NFL?
The true test of whether or not his guy can play in the NFL on a consistent basis begins on Sept 11… So, I will wait and see….

[RedHokieSkin]

As long as he doesn't hurt the team, just his image - play ball!

I know this doesn't help the team. Seems like this could hurt his relationship with other players which could potentially trickle down and hurt the team. Other than Portis, how are other players taking this absence? You think they will look at him the same way? Give him the same respect?

He's shown he's a great individual football player...but we haven't seen any thoughts about the team as a whole from him. How will this pan out and mesh with what Gibbs expects from his players?

[BurgundyNGold]

Welcome to the tribe!

Ok ladies and gents, now that you have had your say, let me give you the "keeping it real" version.

Sean Taylor and Drew probably schemed this up as soon as Drew came back onboard. This seems pretty deliberate to me, to get the crowd going, and assess the fallout, without ACTUALLY holding out. This is as close as they will come to testing the Redskins as to how they would be impacted by ST holding out, and ST's value to the team. They wanted to see if the Redskins thought he would holdout, if they would work on a new deal because of the threat of it.

Now that the Redskins have shown they won't, they have to make it seem like the young man just got some rookie jitters about football and the whole NFL experience. A possibility, and believable to onlookers, because he has made some immature choices up to this point. So while it is not typical for a guy this young to be that way, they might could sell it about Sean. CP is doing his part to help out the fellow U teammate, because he doesn't want to see him alienated on the team for pulling a very bad contract manuever this early in his deal/career. It makes him look selfish, and so they had to spin something like this, however far-fetched, to draw attention from what they really were trying to do, because that makes him look worse. The not showing up thus far part just reinforces that story. That is also why they had to keep him away from the other Miami players down there, so it would look even more so that he was in seclusion and had other problems, mysterious. Possibly even get the sympathy vote, and wipe out the looming "selfish, villain" look he has now. If you stop to think about it, this sounds very much true. Also, you notice the papers haven't exactly been running away with this story. Everybody has pretty much kept this under radar. It's coming to a close real soon. People may doubt his story, but wouldn't know for sure, and basically have to accept it for whatever he said.

Drew has already seen what alienation from aggressive contract manuevers can do to T.O.'s rep on a team. But he knows that T.O., because of longevity, and skills displayed over time, can bounce back from that just by showing up and making plays. Donovan has pretty much spelled that out. It is too early in Sean Taylor's career to lay that kind of drama on him. He might not recover his "rising star", if he did. They took a shot at a new deal, crashed and burned, now they are going to come to camp. By mid-season, it will be like this never happened, and Sean will be busting heads again.

He will not miss training camp. They took a shot, missed, now they will move on. Heck, even you haters will be loving him by mid-season.

Now, didn't I tell you that he will be here?
I appreciate your passion D. Really, I do. But are you so in love with ST as to contrive an unsubstanitiated, fictional story -- with several interesting plot twists -- to explain his absence to this point? I thought "keeping is real" had something to do with keeping it real?

How about we speak to what seems to be common knowledge:

1) ST acts in a manner that is erratic and unexplainable sometimes when he's not on the football field.

2) We know that he didn't like his rookie contract pretty much immediately after signing it and re-hired Rosenhaus to fix it. The irony here is that ST intially hired Rosenhaus before firing him to hire some other guy who brokered his rookie contract that he doesn't like.

3) It would be totally in character to this point in his erratic off-field career for him to say he is or even to be "burned out on football". While this could also be a negotiating ploy, it could very well be the most stupid one in history. How does it help your negotiating position if you tell people that you really just don't want to play? Shouldn't the other side be focused on the fact that you want more money as opposed to raising red flags and flake alerts?

4) He's not working out with the other UM grads in Miami which totally blows the "Oh, he's just working out with the UM guys. They all do it. No big deal." argument out of the water.

It's getting pretty played out, all of the people who keep making excuses for him. We accepted his erratic rookie behavior as a guy learning the ropes -- specifically which ones NOT to tug on. This year, he's at it again. First, was that he'd be in the OTAs. Well he's not. Then the speak was how he would be in June camp. Now he's "burnt out"? This leads to the ST apologists are hedging their bets and saying that he will be in TC. Well, maybe he will be, maybe he won't. Who knows with this guy?

And as long as we're talking about fictional, what if scenarios, let's throw the other end of the spectrum out there for consideration. There's no indication that he's even working out at all or has any intention of coming back. Ever. You don't think he could pull a Ricky? Anything is possible. I bet Dolphin fans didn't think it was possible until last year.

I like ST a lot. He's probably my 2nd favorite Redskin after Ade Jimoh :D. But I don't know what's up with him. All I know is that he's a grown man and a professional athlete who needs to stop acting like he has no judgement center in his brain when he steps off the football field. I am not making excuses for a grown man.

[CNYSkinFan]

The only thing more worrisome then Taylor being in FL because of unhappiness with his contract is Taylor not being in FL because of unhappiness with his contract in my mind. If Taylor is having contract issues and missing voluntary practices, fine. I don't agree with him but fine as long as he is here for minicamp.

But if he is in FL for another reason then that is worrisome. He has not been playing long enough to get burned otu and I hope he isn't becoming a future TO; full of himself and a me first type player.

However I will reserve judgment until Taylor misses mini camp June 17th.

[darksome]

I know this doesn't help the team. Seems like this could hurt his relationship with other players which could potentially trickle down and hurt the team. Other than Portis, how are other players taking this absence? You think they will look at him the same way? Give him the same respect?

He's shown he's a great individual football player...but we haven't seen any thoughts about the team as a whole from him. How will this pan out and mesh with what Gibbs expects from his players?

Using the T.O. and Walker (Green Bay) teammates in the media reaction, teammates don't usually get up in arms about this sort of thing, contracts. That is mostly because it could be them in that position one year, and they don't want the hassle either from their teammates. teammates recognize it as a management vs. player, or a player fighting for money for his family or just plain "that's his biz" type of thing. Check out the other stories. Remember how Favre was berated for speaking out against Walker? It is not a good practice. I don't think they will be mad about this as long as he is in here by training camp. That even includes Gibbs and Co. NOT SAYING they won't like it, but that it will not be the end of the world.

[BurgundyNGold]

Using the T.O. and Walker (Green Bay) teammates in the media reaction, teammates don't usually get up in arms about this sort of thing, contracts. That is mostly because it could be them in that position one year, and they don't want the hassle either from their teammates. teammates recognize it as a management vs. player, or a player fighting for money for his family or just plain "that's his biz" type of thing. Check out the other stories. Remember how Favre was berated for speaking out against Walker? It is not a good practice. I don't think they will be mad about this as long as he is in here by training camp. That even includes Gibbs and Co. NOT SAYING they won't like it, but that it will not be the end of the world.
Actually, I didn't read anything on that, but I might have missed it. Does anyone have a link? Nothing more juicy than players turning on each other on a team that we might be competing against for a playoff spot!

[redwolf1218]

Safety Sean Taylor's ongoing absence from the team isn't because of unhappiness with his contract as had been believed, Washington Redskins coach Joe Gibbs said yesterday.
"I really don't think [it's] contractual," Gibbs said ...

if so, then why send the contract negotiator?....

Having yet to hear from Taylor this offseason, Gibbs recently sent contract negotiator Eric Schaffer to meet with Taylor's agent, Drew Rosenhaus, but to no avail.

[darksome]

I appreciate your passion D. Really, I do. But are you so in love with ST as to contrive an unsubstanitiated, fictional story -- with several interesting plot twists -- to explain his absence to this point? I thought "keeping is real" had something to do with keeping it real?

How about we speak to what seems to be common knowledge:

1) ST acts in a manner that is erratic and unexplainable sometimes when he's not on the football field.

2) We know that he didn't like his rookie contract pretty much immediately after signing it and re-hired Rosenhaus to fix it. The irony here is that ST intially hired Rosenhaus before firing him to hire some other guy who brokered his rookie contract that he doesn't like.

3) It would be totally in character to this point in his erratic off-field career for him to say he is or even to be "burned out on football". While this could also be a negotiating ploy, it could very well be the most stupid one in history. How does it help your negotiating position if you tell people that you really just don't want to play? Shouldn't the other side be focused on the fact that you want more money as opposed to raising red flags and flake alerts?

4) He's not working out with the other UM grads in Miami which totally blows the "Oh, he's just working out with the UM guys. They all do it. No big deal." argument out of the water.

It's getting pretty played out, all of the people who keep making excuses for him. We accepted his erratic rookie behavior as a guy learning the ropes -- specifically which ones NOT to tug on. This year, he's at it again. First, was that he'd be in the OTAs. Well he's not. Then the speak was how he would be in June camp. Now he's "burnt out"? This leads to the ST apologists are hedging their bets and saying that he will be in TC. Well, maybe he will be, maybe he won't. Who knows with this guy?

And as long as we're talking about fictional, what if scenarios, let's throw the other end of the spectrum out there for consideration. There's no indication that he's even working out at all or has any intention of coming back. Ever. You don't think he could pull a Ricky? Anything is possible. I bet Dolphin fans didn't think it was possible until last year.

I like ST a lot. He's probably my 2nd favorite Redskin after Ade Jimoh :D. But I don't know what's up with him. All I know is that he's a grown man and a professional athlete who needs to stop acting like he has no judgement center in his brain when he steps off the football field. I am not making excuses for a grown man.

For all intents and purposes BNG, you just reinforced what I said. Perception is sometimes better or worse than the truth. Let me break it down and respond to your steps you spelled out:

1) That is EXACTLY why this will at the very least be a POSSIBILITY. He has already demonstrated that there is emotional immaturity. Isn't that what I said?

2) That is a direct link to the whole "bad choice of agent" reason why in 2006 this deal will get done. All of this now is posturing. But it lends even more credibility to the story if you think about it. Go back and read it and subsequent posts.

3) THANK YOU! Being alienated is much worse than being pitied or laughed at. That you can recover from after one year. This guy loves football. Go back and read some of his stuff prior to coming to the Redskins. Even last year. He loves working out. GW said that himself. Don't beleive the hype man!

4) Isolation is very much necessary to sell this story. How the heck can you say that if you are out there practicing with the "crew" everyday looking hungry and ready for the season to start? I will go so far as to say that the Miami boys knew he was working out, but are just staying away from this. Whenever any of them were questioned, they were vague at best.

Look, I am not giving excuses for him. Just putting my spin on it. If you want to believe he is burnt out, then that is just your opinion. But I see this as nothing more than being about the Benjamins. Do you know what you would do if millions were on the line and you were an NFL player? I don't. I have an idea.

For FYI...that was funny as heck, your first line! :lol1:

[RedHokieSkin]

Safety Sean Taylor's ongoing absence from the team isn't because of unhappiness with his contract as had been believed, Washington Redskins coach Joe Gibbs said yesterday.
"I really don't think [it's] contractual," Gibbs said ...

if so, then why send the contract negotiator?....

Having yet to hear from Taylor this offseason, Gibbs recently sent contract negotiator Eric Schaffer to meet with Taylor's agent, Drew Rosenhaus, but to no avail.

Maybe he thought it was until his contract negotiator got back...

[darksome]

Safety Sean Taylor's ongoing absence from the team isn't because of unhappiness with his contract as had been believed, Washington Redskins coach Joe Gibbs said yesterday.
"I really don't think [it's] contractual," Gibbs said ...

if so, then why send the contract negotiator?....

Having yet to hear from Taylor this offseason, Gibbs recently sent contract negotiator Eric Schaffer to meet with Taylor's agent, Drew Rosenhaus, but to no avail.

Yet ANOTHER part of the puzzle that proves my theory! They worked it out for next year just like I said. More cap friendly then, and Sean takes the heat for this year's distraction, not the Redskins. He will be here by mandatory time.

Simple and plain my brothers!

[RedHokieSkin]

Using the T.O. and Walker (Green Bay) teammates in the media reaction, teammates don't usually get up in arms about this sort of thing, contracts. That is mostly because it could be them in that position one year, and they don't want the hassle either from their teammates. teammates recognize it as a management vs. player, or a player fighting for money for his family or just plain "that's his biz" type of thing. Check out the other stories. Remember how Favre was berated for speaking out against Walker? It is not a good practice. I don't think they will be mad about this as long as he is in here by training camp. That even includes Gibbs and Co. NOT SAYING they won't like it, but that it will not be the end of the world.

Yeah but saying it and thinking it are two different things. Favre made the mistake of saying what everyone is thinking. All that "that's his biz" jazz is a joke. That's bantha fodder for the masses.

If I'd been working at a place for years, put in a lot of hard work, and been consistently good at my job, I'd be ticked off if some young upstart came in with that kind of attitude. Co-workers would bad mouth him behind his back. Pseudo-coalitions would form against him. But if a customer came in and asked about the relationships between employees, we'd all put on a smile and talk about how great everything was. However behind the scenes, the cohesion of the team is faltering...

[darksome]

Yeah but saying it and thinking it are two different things. Favre made the mistake of saying what everyone is thinking. All that "that's his biz" jazz is a joke. That's bantha fodder for the masses.

If I'd been working at a place for years, put in a lot of hard work, and been consistently good at my job, I'd be ticked off if some young upstart came in with that kind of attitude. Co-workers would bad mouth him behind his back. Pseudo-coalitions would form against him. But if a customer came in and asked about the relationships between employees, we'd all put on a smile and talk about how great everything was. However behind the scenes, the cohesion of the team is faltering...

Football players know that this kind of stuff happens. Unlike you or I, ST has an agent. They know it could be his agent giving him bad advice and by him being young, listening to that bad advice because he doesn't know about this game. If what you just said would be true, then how do you explain rookie holdouts, who eventually come to camp and are beloved when they perform? You know that happens all the time. You hear about grumblings amongst players that a player hasn't played a down of football, but is commanding a big contract and what not - what the heck is his problem? Then he signs, throws or runs for some TDs, and it is all forgotten and forgiven.

This kind of stuff is more dramatized in the media and amongst us - fans. Out on the field, I bet they could care less as long as he does his job when he is there! Judging from the past, and what I just said, can't you see it as being a possibility?

[RedHokieSkin]

Football players know that this kind of stuff happens. Unlike you or I, ST has an agent. They know it could be his agent giving him bad advice and by him being young, listening to that bad advice because he doesn't know about this game. If what you just said would be true, then how do you explain rookie holdouts, who eventually come to camp and are beloved when they perform? You know that happens all the time. You hear about grumblings amongst players that a player hasn't played a down of football, but is commanding a big contract and what not - what the heck is his problem? Then he signs, throws or runs for some TDs, and it is all forgotten and forgiven.

This kind of stuff is more dramatized in the media and amongst us - fans. Out on the field, I bet they could care less as long as he does his job when he is there! Judging from the past, and what I just said, can't you see it as being a possibility?

Anything is a possibility. There is a possibility that ST might be on a secret mission to Mars to meet with the Interspace Council on antitrust violations by Microsoft in the Danari cluster. That doesn't make it true.

There is no 100% rule when it comes to these things. Just because some rookie holdouts are beloved by their teams eventually doesn't mean they all are. No matter how great a guy is, there can be that underlying animosity toward him. For those that are not so great (e.g. ST to date), it can stay closer to the surface for the other players.

You can't turn a blind eye to the entire team's sentiment just because a teammate or two says it's water under the bridge. The only people that truly know are those in the locker room. And I'd put my money on betting that not everyone will forgive and forget just because of a few good plays.

[RedHokieSkin]

Wow! I hit 300! I can't believe it.... Thanks DS for the inspiration to push me passed this milestone!

[the tribe]

aren't OTA's manditory? If that is the case I would fine his ass until he showed up. I'm tired of hearing excuses, he is young, etc. It is BS. He is being paid millions of dollars to play a game....plain and simple. And if he can't act any more mature than this, fine him until he does.
And Drew R. has been a pain in my backside for some time now. He is a pimple on the ass of progress in this league. T.O. and ST...both holding out at the moment. Give me a break...earn your money and more will come. He hasn't earned anything yet. He is yet to play a full season much less be in a position to demand more money.

[The Skinsinator]

This kind of stuff is more dramatized in the media and amongst us - fans. Out on the field, I bet they could care less as long as he does his job when he is there! Judging from the past, and what I just said, can't you see it as being a possibility?

No doubt fans and the media may dig deeper into things than most others. Nonetheless presently Joe Gibbs and the staff Im sure are concerned about his absence despsite the possibility of him returning next month. Gibbs will not forget this nor his refusal to answer Gibbs phone calls. Im one of Taylor biggest fans however his antics are getting very old and detrimental. No one is above the team. You grow as a team and you die as a team.

[darksome]

Wow! I hit 300! I can't believe it.... Thanks DS for the inspiration to push me passed this milestone!

You cheated! You got that off of my boy ST! :lol1:

Welcome to the club man, but you see I won't be a member for long - check out the stats! Can anyone say 400? And quality too! Just like the big dawgs wanted! Ain't that right Mike, PSF, Hail2Skins and company? :)

Me and RedHokieSkins got passion for this game!

The HR - It's fantastic! (darksome flashes million dollar smile)

[RedHokieSkin]

aren't OTA's manditory? If that is the case I would fine his ass until he showed up. I'm tired of hearing excuses, he is young, etc. It is BS. He is being paid millions of dollars to play a game....plain and simple. And if he can't act any more mature than this, fine him until he does.
And Drew R. has been a pain in my backside for some time now. He is a pimple on the ass of progress in this league. T.O. and ST...both holding out at the moment. Give me a break...earn your money and more will come. He hasn't earned anything yet. He is yet to play a full season much less be in a position to demand more money.

OTAs are not mandatory. Mandatory camp starts mid-June.

[darksome]

No doubt fans and the media may dig deeper into things than most others. Nonetheless presently Joe Gibbs and the staff Im sure are concerned about his absence despsite the possibility of him returning next month. Gibbs will not forget this nor his refusal to answer Gibbs phone calls. Im one of Taylor biggest fans however his antics are getting very old and detrimental. No one is above the team. You grow as a team and you die as a team.

Yeah, but I think things tend to get a little too "simplified" by the people on the outside looking in. I think this is being handled differently behind closed doors. I think the seson will expound on this subject in a way the preseason guessing games can't.

[RedHokieSkin]

You cheated! You got that off of my boy ST! :lol1:

Welcome to the club man, but you see I won't be a member for long - check out the stats! Can anyone say 400? And quality too! Just like the big dawgs wanted! Ain't that right Mike, PSF, Hail2Skins and company? :)

Me and RedHokieSkins got passion for this game!

The HR - It's fantastic! (darksome flashes million dollar smile)

I gotta manage 48...no, now 47 more before Saturday night... Quick, same something crazy that will tick me off!

[darksome]

I gotta manage 48...no, now 47 more before Saturday night... Quick, same something crazy that will tick me off!

LOL! That was classic!

Sorry to disappoint, but I have to head out to work now. Catch you guys in da PM!! :mfast:

[PA Skins Girl]

"It's only May. Everyone just needs to chill-out!"

Seriously though, I'm really not too worried about it. If he doesnt report to training camp in July, I will start to worry.

[Ibleedburgundy]

I say we trade Barret Robbins, I mean Sean Taylor, while he's still OUTSIDE the psyche ward. Sure he's good but he can not be trusted at this point. Think of what the skins could get in return!

[The Skinsinator]

Yeah, but I think things tend to get a little too "simplified" by the people on the outside looking in. I think this is being handled differently behind closed doors. I think the seson will expound on this subject in a way the preseason guessing games can't.

I hope you are correct. Yes we are all fanatical fans and may "freak out" about every little thing. However this is no little thing whatsoever. Hes not present once again and more importantly he hasnt answered any of Gibbs calls. Excellent play on the field can nullify many things however at a minimum he needs to provide a very strong (justifiable if that is possible) for avoiding Gibbs phone calls.

[The Skinsinator]

I say we trade Barret Robbins, I mean Sean Taylor, while he's still OUTSIDE the psyche ward. Sure he's good but he can not be trusted at this point. Think of what the skins could get in return!

I think thats jumping the gun just a bit. I wouldnt say he can absolutely not be trusted but his mutiple red flags are disturbing. Consider trading him right now is preposterous.

[SKINSHOG]

I'm losing a lot of respect for Sean Taylor. Not because he's holding out, not because he want to renegotiate his contract, but because of the fact that he won't even talk to Gibbs. What does that tell you about the man?

[Redskinfan28]

Most likely, will not start in the pre-season and maybe opener, if Gibb shistory repeats.

Taylor actually baffles me. He cires and whines about how he got a raw deal with the media, got off to a bad start, but ye, he does this crap. What does he seriosuly expect???? Taylor is no doubt our major, main head case on this team.

AKH is going to challenge you to a duel.

[darksome]

I think thats jumping the gun just a bit. I wouldnt say he can absolutely not be trusted but his mutiple red flags are disturbing. Consider trading him right now is preposterous.

No considering trading him right now is sacrilege!

It is borderline grounds for dismissal!!

Off with his head...I mean thread!!

[BurgundyNGold]

Look, I am not giving excuses for him. Just putting my spin on it. If you want to believe he is burnt out, then that is just your opinion. But I see this as nothing more than being about the Benjamins. Do you know what you would do if millions were on the line and you were an NFL player? I don't. I have an idea.
I knew you would have to come back in here D and blindly back your boy. I hate to disagree with you, but you are actually making excuses for him. In fact, you're inventing them. We don't know that what you're saying is happening actually IS happening. He could just as likely be in Australia chasing down Kangaroo Jack for his workout regiment. Or he could be down out the Taco Bell right now wolfing down gorditas and Choco Tacos.

As for being burned out, I don't believe it any more than CP believes it. And CP only believes it as much as ST does because that's what ST told him. Hearsay at it's finest to be sure, but I'd rather have that than no information at all.

As for me being an NFL player, I can honestly tell you that I might be a very different person than I am today. However, I was raised to honor my commitments. I was also raised to try and be the best at what it was that I chose to do. So, based on those values alone, I would be in camp.

LaDanian Tomlinson -- who BTW has shown that he is the best at his position in the league -- played 3 years out of his rookie contract before negotiating with his team to get an 8 year extension. Ed Reed, ST's UM counterpart is currenty twice the player ST is. At least he played out 3 years of his rookie contract before pushing the issue.

ST is a bad*ss and will one day be able to take over a game. He already does this more than LA does. But he is hurting himself and the team by acting a fool like this. It's not like his contract is out of line with other folks.

[darksome]

I knew you would have to come back in here D and blindly back your boy...ST is a bad*ss and will one day be able to take over a game. He already does this more than LA does. But he is hurting himself and the team by acting a fool like this. It's not like his contract is out of line with other folks.

No blindly, is demonstrative of ye Ramsey faithful. HE has done nothing, yet you believe in him having a PB year. Sean produces every game. Not one, not two - every game!

Seriously, how at this juncture of camp is he hurting the team? Explain that, and don't preface it with "I feel...". No, how is he hurting the team? Everybody keeps saying he is this and that, but he has not broken one rule.

As for the contract, that situation will be dealt with next year. But clearly Gibbs and Co. give more credence to his (Sean) supposed crying than you people here do because they sent a rep down there to talk to him. Now what do you think of that BNG?

[OCSkinzFan]

My take is that the point of contention for Sean IS his contract. But Gibbs is running interference for the media (and fans like me) that think Sean might be turning into TO type malcontent. By leaking that Sean is just “burned out” and isn’t attempting to redo his contract, Gibbs has given a very head-strong and proud Taylor a face saving way to get into camp without (A.) giving him more money or a better contract and (B.) making him look like an ass for holding out, NOT getting a better contract, and having to come to camp with his whiney tail between his legs.

That’s what they sent a negotiator down to Fla to tell ST.

OR

Taylor is afraid of showing up and being tested for roids now that he knows his Wizzinator isn’t going to work.

[darksome]

My take is that the point of contention for Sean IS his contract. But Gibbs is running interference for the media (and fans like me) that think Sean might be turning into TO type malcontent. By leaking that Sean is just “burned out” and isn’t attempting to redo his contract, Gibbs has given a very head-strong and proud Taylor a face saving way to get into camp without (A.) giving him more money or a better contract and (B.) making him look like an ass for holding out, NOT getting a better contract, and having to come to camp with his whiney tail between his legs.

That’s what they sent a negotiator down to Fla to tell ST.

OR

Taylor is afraid of showing up and being tested for roids now that he knows his Wizzinator isn’t going to work.

And you came up with this all on your own?

N O T!!!

[OCSkinzFan]

And you came up with this all on your own?

N O T!!!
Yea...I did...Oh wait....You mean the Wizzinator? Yea, I'm not only the inventor....

What are you N O T ing?
Or are you padding your posts again?

[hail2skins]

Only time will tell what Gibbs and the others think about Sean and this situation. If he's not starting in preseason or in the first game, then you'll know they didn't appreciate his offseason behavior.

[darksome]

Yea...I did...Oh wait....You mean the Wizzinator? Yea, I'm not only the inventor....

What are you N O T ing?
Or are you padding your posts again?

Padding, moi? Even though I make note that I like my numbers rising, I always stick to the criticizing!

I was the one that produced those "finer points" of yours in an earlier post:

http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=486173&postcount=13

See...I may post a lot, but I SAY a lot!

[OCSkinzFan]

Seriously, how at this juncture of camp is he hurting the team? Explain that, and don't preface it with "I feel...". No, how is he hurting the team? Everybody keeps saying he is this and that, but he has not broken one rule.?

He's not acting like a member of the team. Didn't he have a hard time his rookie year? Why isn't he showing some leadership and helping the rookies adjust to the NFL etc. He could get the shaving cream pie out of their weepy eyes. Oh wait, that was him last year.

Football is a TEAM sport. If the coach wants you to do it, and it's not against the law, you do it. When ALL the players do this, you end up with a team that puts winning over personality.

Right now ST is acting like it's him first, then the team. That's how he's hurting the team.

And him not breaking one rule? Tell me how that HELPS the team. Where I work, if you're not helping you're part of the problem.

[hail2skins]

The thing that puzzles me about this is that his employer (The Redskins) have called him on several ocassions and he has not answered or even attempted to return their calls. Would your employer allow you to get away with that?

[LATrueRedskin]

The thing that puzzles me about this is that his employer (The Redskins) have called him on several ocassions and he has not answered or even attempted to return their calls. Would your employer allow you to get away with that?

Exactly. It's unbelievabley childish what he's doing. He knows Joe Gibbs is calling, yet he doesn't call back once. Seriously, WTF is that?!?!?! I'm glad Joe Gibbs is running the team instead of me when stuff like what Taylor is pulling happens.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

The thing that puzzles me about this is that his employer (The Redskins) have called him on several ocassions and he has not answered or even attempted to return their calls. Would your employer allow you to get away with that?
thats the thing that bothers me too. he is a good player with limitless potential, but he has yet earned the right to not return a call to his coach(es), especially a HOF coach. in fact NO player should be avoiding phone calls from their employers.....

[BurgundyNGold]

No blindly, is demonstrative of ye Ramsey faithful. HE has done nothing, yet you believe in him having a PB year. Sean produces every game. Not one, not two - every game!

Seriously, how at this juncture of camp is he hurting the team? Explain that, and don't preface it with "I feel...". No, how is he hurting the team? Everybody keeps saying he is this and that, but he has not broken one rule.

As for the contract, that situation will be dealt with next year. But clearly Gibbs and Co. give more credence to his (Sean) supposed crying than you people here do because they sent a rep down there to talk to him. Now what do you think of that BNG?
Where did you get that??? This is the first time I've heard of them sending a rep down there to talk to him. Is there a link to this or does it lead directly from whence you pulled it... your posterior?

BTW, I am not one of the Ramsey faithful. If you ever read over those threads, I repeatedly lambast him for his poor mechanics. I have never once said that he would have a pro bowl year in 2005. I shudder to think that you might have me confused with COUNCILMAN.

As for how he's hurting the team, let me count the ways:

1) Let's start with the obvious: comraderie. You have to earn the respect of your teammates and coaches. That might not be a big deal in golf, but it sure as heck is in a team, game like football. Dissing the team and your teammates does not endear you to them.

2) Next: Learning the pro game. If he doesn't watch the game film with his coaches and his peers, he doesn't learn and he doesn't get better. That kind of crap may have flew at the U, but this is the pros. Last time I checked, the scoreboard at Texas stadium last December said the same thing.

3) Then: Learning more of GW's schemes. He was a rookie last year. GW even said he was bringing him along slowly. That would imply that there is much for him to learn still. It's real simple: ST is not here, so ST is not learning. If ST is njot learning, he is not getting better. That's why they have these sessions!

I'm sorry if you feel some need to defend the guy like he's some sort of defenseless puppy. I've said this before: I like the guy as a football player. But he's a grown man who needs to start acting like one.

[OCSkinzFan]

Padding, moi? Even though I make note that I like my numbers rising, I always stick to the criticizing!

I was the one that produced those "finer points" of yours in an earlier post:

http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=486173&postcount=13

See...I may post a lot, but I SAY a lot!
I never read your post untill now, but there is a certain pattern to it that is simmilar to my theory. But you "produced nothing" that I posted. It is possible for more than one person to arrive at similar conclusions. I think in my post I better intimated the Machiavellian nature of Gibbs' deception of us and the media. I just wonder why yours was so wordy? And nothing about a Wizzinator?

[BurgundyNGold]

Where did you get that??? This is the first time I've heard of them sending a rep down there to talk to him. Is there a link to this or does it lead directly from whence you pulled it... your posterior?
I found a WP link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/17/AR2005051701249.html) about ST missing practice. It had this to say about the rep going down to Florida:

But the team has since sent salary cap specialist Eric Schaffer to Miami to meet with Rosenhaus, and Redskins officials say they are now certain that the contract is not the reason Taylor has remained in Florida.

So, yes, a rep went down to Florida to talk with the agent - NOT Sean Taylor. You were half right that the Redskins sent a representative into the state. You were wrong about who he went to go see.

The whole article was disturbing to say the least.

[OCSkinzFan]

The thing that puzzles me about this is that his employer (The Redskins) have called him on several ocassions and he has not answered or even attempted to return their calls. Would your employer allow you to get away with that?
Only if I called out on a Sunday and he saw me in the stands at a certain professional football team's game. He would probably think that was funny. Then I'd have to work while the Skins were winning the Super Bowl. He'd think that was funny too.

[BurgundyNGold]

OR

Taylor is afraid of showing up and being tested for roids now that he knows his Wizzinator isn’t going to work.
Interesting angle. I never thought that there might be some other deal like that going on. I've been thinking it was about $$$ or just ST being erratic again.

[darksome]

He's not acting like a member of the team. Didn't he have a hard time his rookie year? Why isn't he showing some leadership and helping the rookies adjust to the NFL etc. He could get the shaving cream pie out of their weepy eyes. Oh wait, that was him last year.

Football is a TEAM sport. If the coach wants you to do it, and it's not against the law, you do it. When ALL the players do this, you end up with a team that puts winning over personality.

Right now ST is acting like it's him first, then the team. That's how he's hurting the team.

And him not breaking one rule? Tell me how that HELPS the team. Where I work, if you're not helping you're part of the problem.

Sorry, I was watching the Phoenix game!

All of this is about how I feel, not necessarily the "way it is":

Sean Taylor's situation is not about "him vs. the team". I understand how you feel about the typical athlete "looking out for self" thing, but enough of them do this for this not to be a panic situation or rude awakening.

If this were mandatory TC, then I would be concerned as well. But the truth is, you still have not told me how he has done harm to anyone but himself.

Gibbs and the crew have more of an understanding about this situation than they are letting on to. They are not playing this out in the media, just saying enough to paint the picture that this is all of Sean's doing. My guess is that they are low key on this because he hasn't gone to the media to challenge the organization. There is no "public outcry". There may be a HR outcry, but no widespread pandemonium.

Suffice it to say that he won't be venerated on HR, by most. But he will be by his teammates when they start playing and he is jarring balls loose, putting running backs and receivers on their backs, and stripping the ball! All of which, mind you, he did during his rookie season each and every game. That was after all of those rookie pre-season gaffes he made which I am sure you same guys were writing about then. Then he wowed you right along with the rest of America!!

So how does he not deserve the benefit of the doubt of at least making a dumb mistake (no doubt seduced by the Great Rosenhaus - the agent ya love to hate!) that he just has to live and learn from and pick up the pieces in training camp? When he is not here when he HAS to be here, then there is a problem. There is no problem now IMO. Just some bad choices. But who are we to say? It is after all, the means by which he earns his living.

You guys try to use your jobs and livelihood for comparison sake. But you know, if you think about it, that you can't. You don't have an agent. You don't have a 2nd and 3rd stringer ready to step in. If Sean is not on the practice field, then they have a stunt double for him. YOU don't have that. If you call in, then they may have to pull someone else from another assignment and double their load to handle yours. That would ruffle a lot of feathers. Not ST missing voluntary sessions. C'mon guys. Get real. That is like the contract situation. Can you hold out? Can you go in there and demand more money?

NFL contracts are not guaranteed. Next year, they could trade or cut Sean and he couldn't say a thing! No one would be like they broke the rules. But nevertheless, it can happen. And does. So, while I don't like the way T.O. goes about his biz of trashing the organization and his teammates, it is his right to make sure he is duly compensated, just like it is Sean Taylor's. TO US, they ae, because they make so much anyway, but to the league and their peers, that money is on a different level thanwhat we are accustomed to crossing our bank account on payday. So with the big TV deals and the money being made, these guys want to be paid commensurate with their value to the team. Now Sean, really IMO, did this for next year, not this year. That is why I feel confident he will be here when it counts, or counts against him, however you look at it.

So how is it so difficult to just wait until things really kick into a higher gear, before you stone him?

Just the world according to darksome. Nothing more.

[OCSkinzFan]

Interesting angle. I never thought that there might be some other deal like that going on. I've been thinking it was about $$$ or just ST being erratic again.

I'm only half kidding about the roid thing. His size and speed seem....? You see what I mean. You need to do a couple of cycles of steroids to get the best effects and then cycle off so you don't test positive. While were all thinking up defenses for him for this and that, completeing an off cycle before he reports is just as likely.

[OCSkinzFan]

Sorry, I was watching the Phoenix game!

All of this is about how I feel, not necessarily the "way it is":

Sean Taylor's situation is not about "him vs. the team". I understand how you feel about the typical athlete "looking out for self" thing, but enough of them do this for this not to be a panic situation or rude awakening.

If this were mandatory TC, then I would be concerned as well. But the truth is, you still have not told me how he has done harm to anyone but himself.

No one is "panicking." We are just charactering ST's absence.

Just so you don't accuse me of plagiarism, I stopped reading at the bold line above. Because if you really think that your statement is true, then you will never get it.

You're right that it's not him vs. the team. It's the team FOR the team, and that's where he's not right now. Football is a team sport. He needs to act like he plays a team sport. Furthermore, he made many mental mistakes last year, some that cost TD's. Practice is where you fix things like that.

Or do you have some other reason why players practice?
NOTE: My last question is rhetorical.

[darksome]

Where did you get that??? This is the first time I've heard of them sending a rep down there to talk to him. Is there a link to this or does it lead directly from whence you pulled it... your posterior?

BTW, I am not one of the Ramsey faithful. If you ever read over those threads, I repeatedly lambast him for his poor mechanics. I have never once said that he would have a pro bowl year in 2005. I shudder to think that you might have me confused with COUNCILMAN.

As for how he's hurting the team, let me count the ways:

1) Let's start with the obvious: comraderie. You have to earn the respect of your teammates and coaches. That might not be a big deal in golf, but it sure as heck is in a team, game like football. Dissing the team and your teammates does not endear you to them.

2) Next: Learning the pro game. If he doesn't watch the game film with his coaches and his peers, he doesn't learn and he doesn't get better. That kind of crap may have flew at the U, but this is the pros. Last time I checked, the scoreboard at Texas stadium last December said the same thing.

3) Then: Learning more of GW's schemes. He was a rookie last year. GW even said he was bringing him along slowly. That would imply that there is much for him to learn still. It's real simple: ST is not here, so ST is not learning. If ST is njot learning, he is not getting better. That's why they have these sessions!

I'm sorry if you feel some need to defend the guy like he's some sort of defenseless puppy. I've said this before: I like the guy as a football player. But he's a grown man who needs to start acting like one.


Forget about the Ramsey thing, I wasn't necessarily saying YOU, just the people on here that like him in that way. Now, like a 2 guard, let me break you down off the dribble again using your post:

1) Comaraderie? You are insane if you think that because of this practice-light situation that you are obsessed about, that he has lost the love of his teammates! NFL players are used to one of their own not being there over contract negotiations. Whether it is judged to be wrong or right, which by the way is usually the media and fans at a frenzy playing the "million dollar making card". those guys will be chest bumping ST in no time. I am going to hate myself, but - HOW MANY OF YOU (groan) SAW THEM NOT BLOCK FOR HEATH SHULER WHEN HE GOT HERE? NONE! He stunk and they still applauded him when he did something good. If that piece of crap guy can go out in a game and stink up the place, why are you thinking they will not love ST when he comes to play ball - when he absolutely annihilates people every game??!!?? You are not thinking about this stuff you are saying. This is just emotional crow that you will be putting mustard on and taking big bites of when he gets here and starts leveling people!

2) GW says he watches film all the time. GW raves about his habits. Which team that they are playing next that he is not watching film of? Who is next week's opponent? ST is probably clueless about that, just as you obviously are. Sheesh!

3) THAT is the only thing you can lay claim to. But if I am not mistaken, if he was missing something that he SHOULD have gotten, then it would be OTA - Mandatory Practices!

Bring it on BNG! Bring it on!!!!

[darksome]

No one is "panicking." We are just charactering ST's absence.

Just so you don't accuse me of plagiarism, I stopped reading at the bold line above. Because if you really think that your statement is true, then you will never get it.

You're right that it's not him vs. the team. It's the team FOR the team, and that's where he's not right now. Football is a team sport. He needs to act like he plays a team sport. Furthermore, he made many mental mistakes last year, some that cost TD's. Practice is where you fix things like that.

Or do you have some other reason why players practice?
NOTE: My last question is rhetorical.

OC, you are just being a blowhard about this. You are not making anything but emotional assessments. I say, and I still say, he ain't hurting the team right now. When a guy holds out, what is the thing you hear the coaches say the most? That the guy should be here learning the stuff he is missing out on. That he is going to be behind. That means he may miss start time if he does not show he can make it up, or for disciplinarian reasons. But this ain't time to be in camp that is mandatory - so no rules broken. Doesn't matter if you light a torch and rah rah all over the place protesting - Gibbs said he ain't broke a rule - he ain't broke a rule! You know something Gibbs doesn't? Share it then!

[darksome]

I never read your post untill now, but there is a certain pattern to it that is simmilar to my theory. But you "produced nothing" that I posted. It is possible for more than one person to arrive at similar conclusions. I think in my post I better intimated the Machiavellian nature of Gibbs' deception of us and the media. I just wonder why yours was so wordy? And nothing about a Wizzinator?

Wordy? Moi?

I prefer the term "verbose". It looks better on black and white! :Peace:

[BurgundyNGold]

1) Comaraderie? You are insane if you think that because of this practice-light situation that you are obsessed about, that he has lost the love of his teammates! NFL players are used to one of their own not being there over contract negotiations. Whether it is judged to be wrong or right, which by the way is usually the media and fans at a frenzy playing the "million dollar making card". those guys will be chest bumping ST in no time. I am going to hate myself, but - HOW MANY OF YOU (groan) SAW THEM NOT BLOCK FOR HEATH SHULER WHEN HE GOT HERE? NONE! He stunk and they still applauded him when he did something good. If that piece of crap guy can go out in a game and stink up the place, why are you thinking they will not love ST when he comes to play ball - when he absolutely annihilates people every game??!!?? You are not thinking about this stuff you are saying. This is just emotional crow that you will be putting mustard on and taking big bites of when he gets here and starts leveling people!
If you don't understand the value of comraderie and team chemistry, then I'm not going to be impart it to you. I'll just leave it at the fact that Gibbs would disagree with your characterization of what's individually acceptable from a team perspective 100%.

2) GW says he watches film all the time. GW raves about his habits. Which team that they are playing next that he is not watching film of? Who is next week's opponent? ST is probably clueless about that, just as you obviously are. Sheesh!
As I recall, they were very much concerned during the first part of last season because ST didn't watch film at all. Later on he started to watch a bit of film and made strides as a result. But he never will be confused with a film junkie. The one thing I do know is that he's not making strides at the moment, unless those stides are up and down South Beach.

Bring it on BNG! Bring it on!!!!
There is nothing to bring. You know why I think the way I do. There will be no crow to be eaten. I'm not saying he's not good or that he eventually won't be here. As I have said time and again, he simply needs to grow up and get in here so he can start getting better. Anything else is inexcusable.

[darksome]

If you don't understand the value of comraderie and team chemistry, then I'm not going to be impart it to you. I'll just leave it at the fact that Gibbs would disagree with your characterization of what's individually acceptable from a team perspective 100%.


As I recall, they were very much concerned during the first part of last season because ST didn't watch film at all. Later on he started to watch a bit of film and made strides as a result. But he never will be confused with a film junkie. The one thing I do know is that he's not making strides at the moment, unless those stides are up and down South Beach.


There is nothing to bring. You know why I think the way I do. There will be no crow to be eaten. I'm not saying he's not good or that he eventually won't be here. As I have said time and again, he simply needs to grow up and get in here so he can start getting better. Anything else is inexcusable.

Then you stay tuned...same HR station...same HR channel...for my season premier post when I rave about ST to you and every other doubting Thomas out there who tried to use this as a bashing platform against a simple man, just trying to humbly earn a living destroying the opposition - Sean "Be here this year and don't blink - ya might miss it" Taylor!

[hail2skins]

Sorry, I was watching the Phoenix game!

All of this is about how I feel, not necessarily the "way it is":

Sean Taylor's situation is not about "him vs. the team". I understand how you feel about the typical athlete "looking out for self" thing, but enough of them do this for this not to be a panic situation or rude awakening.

If this were mandatory TC, then I would be concerned as well. But the truth is, you still have not told me how he has done harm to anyone but himself.

Gibbs and the crew have more of an understanding about this situation than they are letting on to. They are not playing this out in the media, just saying enough to paint the picture that this is all of Sean's doing. My guess is that they are low key on this because he hasn't gone to the media to challenge the organization. There is no "public outcry". There may be a HR outcry, but no widespread pandemonium.
One could argue that the reason they are keeping it low key is because they do consider it a problem and they're keeping it out of the media because they don't want it to be a bigger problem.

Suffice it to say that he won't be venerated on HR, by most. But he will be by his teammates when they start playing and he is jarring balls loose, putting running backs and receivers on their backs, and stripping the ball! All of which, mind you, he did during his rookie season each and every game. That was after all of those rookie pre-season gaffes he made which I am sure you same guys were writing about then. Then he wowed you right along with the rest of America!!Which will be when? If he's not on the field for the first or second game, then he hurting the team because they are not using his talents.

So how does he not deserve the benefit of the doubt of at least making a dumb mistake (no doubt seduced by the Great Rosenhaus - the agent ya love to hate!) that he just has to live and learn from and pick up the pieces in training camp? When he is not here when he HAS to be here, then there is a problem. There is no problem now IMO. Just some bad choices. But who are we to say? It is after all, the means by which he earns his living.A lot of people gave him the benefit of the doubt in his rookie season after all of the agent stuff he pulled and some other bad choices he made.

You guys try to use your jobs and livelihood for comparison sake. But you know, if you think about it, that you can't. You don't have an agent. You don't have a 2nd and 3rd stringer ready to step in. If Sean is not on the practice field, then they have a stunt double for him. YOU don't have that. If you call in, then they may have to pull someone else from another assignment and double their load to handle yours. That would ruffle a lot of feathers. Not ST missing voluntary sessions. C'mon guys. Get real. That is like the contract situation. Can you hold out? Can you go in there and demand more money?Having an agent and being designated 1st or 2nd string means nothing. It's still an employer-employee relationship no matter how you slice it up.

NFL contracts are not guaranteed. Next year, they could trade or cut Sean and he couldn't say a thing! No one would be like they broke the rules. But nevertheless, it can happen. And does. So, while I don't like the way T.O. goes about his biz of trashing the organization and his teammates, it is his right to make sure he is duly compensated, just like it is Sean Taylor's. TO US, they ae, because they make so much anyway, but to the league and their peers, that money is on a different level thanwhat we are accustomed to crossing our bank account on payday. So with the big TV deals and the money being made, these guys want to be paid commensurate with their value to the team. Now Sean, really IMO, did this for next year, not this year. That is why I feel confident he will be here when it counts, or counts against him, however you look at it.

So how is it so difficult to just wait until things really kick into a higher gear, before you stone him?

Just the world according to darksome. Nothing more.Signing bonuses are guaranteed in contracts and while teams can cut you tomorrow, there's a penalty they take that could impact the future of the organization.

[redwolf1218]

i dont think this will impact Taylor's playing time. If he wins the starting job thru superior play in camp and in the preseason, and he doesnt start, it would be like punishing him for missing voluntary sessions, which i am not sure i would agree with. having said that, i think it's important to give other safeties ample time to prove they are capable, because you have to plan for the future, in case Taylor is mentally unstable or has lost his passion for the game. obviously he doesnt care about having to prove himself thru work ethic like everyone else. it has been reported that even Jerry Rice, as great as was, always felt he was on the verge of losing his job and always worked himself silly to compete at his highest level.

[BurgundyNGold]

Then you stay tuned...same HR station...same HR channel...for my season premier post when I rave about ST to you and every other doubting Thomas out there who tried to use this as a bashing platform against a simple man, just trying to humbly earn a living destroying the opposition - Sean "Be here this year and don't blink - ya might miss it" Taylor!
Sean, buddy, is that you? You had me going for a while, I actually thought you might be this darksome fella! I think I speak for everyone here when I say "Get you butt off this MB and into the OTA!!!".

[OCSkinzFan]

OC, you are just being a blowhard about this. You are not making anything but emotional assessments. I say, and I still say, he ain't hurting the team right now. When a guy holds out, what is the thing you hear the coaches say the most? That the guy should be here learning the stuff he is missing out on. That he is going to be behind. That means he may miss start time if he does not show he can make it up, or for disciplinarian reasons. But this ain't time to be in camp that is mandatory - so no rules broken. Doesn't matter if you light a torch and rah rah all over the place protesting - Gibbs said he ain't broke a rule - he ain't broke a rule! You know something Gibbs doesn't? Share it then!

Gibbs said he needs to be in camp.
Gibbs said he wants him in camp.
That's what I know...You seem to have other information... Or special powers? Why not try logic? You may have heard of it.

And No, I am not a blowhard, Nothing I include is emotional assessment. (Like calling me a blowhard)

And you continue to avoid the obvious.

Answer this when you get off your horse.

Team members are there to help the team. How is he helping the team?
He's not. If you're not helping, then you're part of the problem. I'm not lighting anything on fire, or dancing with pom-poms. Just using logic.

People with character do not just avoid breaking rules. They do the right thing. He has a contract. Good players (especially ones with existing contracts) listen to their coach.

But as I said before. You don't get it. If Character is not part of Darksome's
constitution, I don't expect you to get it. So just stick to your infantile "he ain't broke a rule!" opinion and I'll continue to hold individuals accountalbe based what they do and do not do, not on who I want them to be.

[OCSkinzFan]

Then you stay tuned...same HR station...same HR channel...for my season premier post when I rave about ST to you and every other doubting Thomas out there who tried to use this as a bashing platform against a simple man, just trying to humbly earn a living destroying the opposition - Sean "Be here this year and don't blink - ya might miss it" Taylor!

He's not the sharpest tool in the shed, but sir, I resent you calling him "SIMPLE".

Pistols at dawn!

Oh wait, were you calling you simple? Oh, then nevermind.

[redskin_rich]

I haven't said much about him, he should be here but if he needs a break from the spotlight that he has created, then whatever.

If he is not here on 6/17 though, the you know what is going to hit the fan, he will be firmly entrenched in the doghouse and it will take years for him to get out or until the next time he blasts Meshawn or any other Cowgirl into delirium, then he will be forgiven...maybe.

[BurgundyNGold]

I haven't said much about him, he should be here but if he needs a break from the spotlight that he has created, then whatever.

If he is not here on 6/17 though, the you know what is going to hit the fan, he will be firmly entrenched in the doghouse and it will take years for him to get out or until the next time he blasts Meshawn or any other Cowgirl into delirium, then he will be forgiven...maybe.
Don't be a hater! :D

[silverspring]

Then you stay tuned...same HR station...same HR channel...for my season premier post when I rave about ST to you and every other doubting Thomas out there who tried to use this as a bashing platform against a simple man, just trying to humbly earn a living destroying the opposition - Sean "Be here this year and don't blink - ya might miss it" Taylor!

Umm...HELP...After looking into this situation I think we are going to have to call in a crane, a hyraulic lift, jessica simpson, a monkey and a full surgical team to extract darksome's lips from sean taylors ass.

[BurgundyNGold]

Umm...HELP...After looking into this situation I think we are going to have to call in a crane, a hyraulic lift, jessica simpson, a monkey and a full surgical team to extract darksome's lips from sean taylors ass.
:lol1:

[colkurtz]

Thread #2 in the "Where in the World is Sean Taylor" threads. Yes, I'm keeping track.................

Seriously, this kid is going to be a head case in the off-season.

Everyone in hR cyber-space is already eating Rolaids at 1 hour intervals and we're still in the OTA's.

Two days before the mini-camp and most hR members will be on some form of intraveneous sedation and other thumb-sucking behavior over ST.

[darksome]

Guys I had to tell you...I feel nothing but love in this room! :lol1:

You go guys! I love it!

But you won't get anymore rebuttals of that accord (100 wpm typing) until...oh what the heck...here goes...

First, Hail2Skins:

Too many topics on your post to break down, because I don't like to talk really, I am more of a concise speaker. Wouldn't you say so OCSkinzFan. But, let me try to sum it up for ya anyway. Sean is a unique case on the roster. You don't really think that all players are treated equal do you? Think that is just in my head? Nope, I heard John Thompson use the same suggestion of thought about the "cancerous" Mr. Iverson during his Larry Brown years, who also missed a practice or two. Wow, his teammates hated him. In fact, when they bumped chests with him night in and night out after he pumped 30 to 50 into the oppositions face, they were really trying to break his ribcage, but he will never know that because they masked it behind the "love". You know, that same employer to employee, in your face, I can buck the system cuz I'm a star, practice what practice - OTA?...love. Now, if they don't love him, they will not congratulate him when he does well, not give him a new deal next year, not play him on the first team, and not bump chests. Gee, if I was a betting man, which one would I put my money on? Hmm...

Yo turn OCSkinzfan:

Actually, character is a mainstay of Darksome's. You never see me lose it in here. You never see me fall off of the "beaten path". You just see me take it between my legs, dribble around you and dunk it in ya face!
You talk all of that talk about Taylor not being in camp because of his character, or lack thereof. Does T.O. have good character? Does Randy Moss have good character? I think you would agree that they don't. Now, Mr. "pistols at dawn", Imma ask you a "simple" question since you have so much logic that Moi doesn't. ARE THESE TWO OF THE TOP THREE HIGHEST PAID RECEIVERS IN THE LEAGUE THAT ARE LACKING CHARACTER? Study long, study wrong! Also, when you are looking at a game that these character mis-fits are playing, do they ever get chest bumps or love from teammates when they score? Did, in fact, Randy Moss not say he takes plays off before? Does he still get love from the fans when he does his version of the "Lambeau Leap" after a score? Maybe it's just me, I don't know. I think I gotta get my TV fixed cuz it just looks like Moss's teammates swarm him after a score. And he is aloof! Did you know that? So, I guess you can say, he gets love even when he ain't giving love in return huh? But, but, that can't be! It's illogical for that to happen! Get real! this ain't Mr. Robinson's neighborhood! These players are handled according to their play on the field. Case in point. Freddy Mitchell. BIG MOUTH! T.O. BIG MOUTH! Freddie Mitchell. No production - BOOTED!! T.O. Big production! On the team and they can't wait til he returns so they can start making plays. Even Donovan thinks that. ON THE FIELD! They are judged by the fruit they bear! Not by them bearing their BUTT and wiping it on the goalposts! Same with Sean. though not a star yet like them, he is on the rise. Management sees that. So they are laid back and careful how they handle him, especially since he hasn't broken a rule...yet!

OCSkinzFan, he shoots, he sco....ooohhh nooo! Darksome swats it outta the gym! Get it outta here OC!!

BNG!

BNG, even the Lord had a day of rest. So Imma cut you some slack whilst I inspect "fallout" and rebuttals! :lol1:

But don't relax your vigil! I'llllll beeee bbbaaacckkkk!!

[darksome]

Epilogue:

BTW, just in case the point was missed on my previous post, nothing that Sean Taylor has done thus far, is going to make him lose the "love". Nor set him back too far off of the season pace.

Whether you are a fan, a coach, a teammate, or just a cheerleader like OCSkinzfan, what happens on the field come game time is what matters most. I am not saying it doesn't matter at all about the character. But not as much as you Mayberry RFD thinkers feel! I don't KNOW Taylor personally, so I stay away from my personal opinion of him. That has nothing to do with his play on the field. But if even that is to be debated, it is to be debated by his peers. Who, mark my words, will see him as just a young guy, that may have signs of some self-destruction, but gives it up for the B&G and leaves it on the field. Obviously, that has to be it or the other two guys I mentioned would be hated and thrust out of the league by now.

What you haters are also obviously forgetting is that Sean is at the BEGINNING of his career. Not the middle. Not the end. He has plenty of time to repair any fallout from his "heinous" holding out of OTAs. But even if he were to remain the butt-hole that many of the haters believe he is, he will get love from teammates and fans and coaches and Mr. Snyder by way of a serious check - for going out there and just beating the living daylights out of any receiver or runningback that gets in his sight that ain't wearing B&G!

You may not like that assessment. But it is real! Look at Moss! Look at TO! Hello???!!?? Is this thing on??? Those guys are clearly selfish jerks! BUT, whenever they score, you can't even see them because they are surrounded by their teammates showing them...you know...go on and say it BNG...go on and say it OC...and yes, you too H2S...LOVE!

Just like you give Darksome love! And I loves ya back! MMMUUAAHHH!! :lol1:

[BurgundyNGold]

Epilogue:

BTW, just in case the point was missed on my previous post, nothing that Sean Taylor has done thus far, is going to make him lose the "love". Nor set him back too far off of the season pace.

Whether you are a fan, a coach, a teammate, or just a cheerleader like OCSkinzfan, what happens on the field come game time is what matters most. I am not saying it doesn't matter at all about the character. But not as much as you Mayberry RFD thinkers feel! I don't KNOW Taylor personally, so I stay away from my personal opinion of him. That has nothing to do with his play on the field. But if even that is to be debated, it is to be debated by his peers. Who, mark my words, will see him as just a young guy, that may have signs of some self-destruction, but gives it up for the B&G and leaves it on the field. Obviously, that has to be it or the other two guys I mentioned would be hated and thrust out of the league by now.

What you haters are also obviously forgetting is that Sean is at the BEGINNING of his career. Not the middle. Not the end. He has plenty of time to repair any fallout from his "heinous" holding out of OTAs. But even if he were to remain the butt-hole that many of the haters believe he is, he will get love from teammates and fans and coaches and Mr. Snyder by way of a serious check - for going out there and just beating the living daylights out of any receiver or runningback that gets in his sight that ain't wearing B&G!

You may not like that assessment. But it is real! Look at Moss! Look at TO! Hello???!!?? Is this thing on??? Those guys are clearly selfish jerks! BUT, whenever they score, you can't even see them because they are surrounded by their teammates showing them...you know...go on and say it BNG...go on and say it OC...and yes, you too H2S...LOVE!

Just like you give Darksome love! And I loves ya back! MMMUUAAHHH!!

You're certainly a passionate guy D, so I have to give you that. You are by far further in the tank for ST than anyone has been for any player in the history of butt smooching. Clearly, your unclouded perspective on this and perfectly logical arguments should assuage any concerns about ST's annual offseason circus as it's come to be. :rolleyes:

The fact remains that ST is young, and while he has undeniable talent, he also has glaring weakness in his knowlege of the game at this level. This is particularly true of his understanding of GW's system. He needs to be up here learning as much as he can to become better. If he is not here with his teammates learning for next season, he is not getting better, which hurts the B&G.

As a final thought, you threw out some names of some top level talent -- all of whom are older than ST and are pro bowl players in their own right. You mentioned everybody's favorite Leon wannabe, TO. You also mentioned Randy Moss. You even went roundball on us and plucked Iverson for comparison.

Might I ask you what all of these "me first" players, who not only don't like to practice and take plays off have in common? Here's a shocker: None of them have ever won a championship. That's right, there's a whopping 0 championship rings combined in their collective jewelry cases.

As I said before, I am all about the B&G and bringing back the Lombardi trophy. Everything else is a secondary concern. Players come and go; but the B&G is always here, fighting for old DC. If you don't share that position, perhaps you ought to give your sermons at the Church of Sean Taylor at http://www.seantaylor21.com.

:Peace:

[MONK_in_HOF]

I'm only half kidding about the roid thing. His size and speed seem....? You see what I mean. You need to do a couple of cycles of steroids to get the best effects and then cycle off so you don't test positive. While were all thinking up defenses for him for this and that, completeing an off cycle before he reports is just as likely.
I know you are half kidding on the steriods suggestion but I don't think it is possible to avoid testing by staying away from team facilities. If they schedule you for a test and you don't take it that results in a positive.

[MONK_in_HOF]

Sean produces every game. Not one, not two - every game!



I am not trying to be a "hater" but I don't consider giving up the game winning TD to Dallas on the last play as producing "every" game. I also recall a pivotal game vs GB that we could have really used him. Not exactly what I consider grounds for skipping OTA's when EVERY other player on the team is there.

If the reason he has decided to skip out is contractual that is a different story, even though I personally don't feel he has earned the right to renegotiate yet. The skins sent a rep down there to discuss his contract w/ his agent and they still don't even know if the problem is contractual or not, or if they do they obviously don't want us to know. I don't think OTA's are that important but the ones skipping them if anyone should be veterans who have earned that right. IMO opinion Sean needs to be up here w/ the rest of his teammates so he can learn the game and maximize the extraordinary talent he has.

[redwolf1218]

i cant decide if:
A) they know what's going on and just aren't telling us.
B) no one knows what's going on, including Rosenhaus.

[skins4life24]

i don't think anyone knows whats going on with shawn . . . people have said he is the craziest guy to come out of miami ever and look who his competition is, Ray Lewis, Warren Sapp, and the craziest of all Micheal Irvin! that is scary!

[BurgundyNGold]

i don't think anyone knows whats going on with shawn . . . people have said he is the craziest guy to come out of miami ever and look who his competition is, Ray Lewis, Warren Sapp, and the craziest of all Micheal Irvin! that is scary!
Coach Gibbs called their research of ST before they drafted him "probably the most researched thing ever". I should hope that he's not crazy or it would be a HUGE indictment of our FO.

[redwolf1218]

Coach Gibbs called their research of ST before they drafted him "probably the most researched thing ever". I should hope that he's not crazy or it would be a HUGE indictment of our FO.
i had a funny feeling when i kept hearing him say that, like, the way he said it was almost as if they felt like they needed to dig deep, as in, why was there so much to scrutinize? he is a tough nut to crack.

[Brokenstriker]

the recent news says that the Redskins are convinced that his absense isnt associated with a contract issue ... and it also makes it sound like there is some kind of "no comment" thing going on also ... I hope its nothing ... but I'm starting to think perhaps he's doing something that he doesn't want anyone to know about ... including his employer ... only things that come to mind are substance abuse, detox and therapy ...

[hail2skins]

Guys I had to tell you...I feel nothing but love in this room! :lol1:

You go guys! I love it!

But you won't get anymore rebuttals of that accord (100 wpm typing) until...oh what the heck...here goes...

First, Hail2Skins:

Too many topics on your post to break down, because I don't like to talk really, I am more of a concise speaker. Wouldn't you say so OCSkinzFan. But, let me try to sum it up for ya anyway. Sean is a unique case on the roster. You don't really think that all players are treated equal do you? Think that is just in my head? Nope, I heard John Thompson use the same suggestion of thought about the "cancerous" Mr. Iverson during his Larry Brown years, who also missed a practice or two. Wow, his teammates hated him. In fact, when they bumped chests with him night in and night out after he pumped 30 to 50 into the oppositions face, they were really trying to break his ribcage, but he will never know that because they masked it behind the "love". You know, that same employer to employee, in your face, I can buck the system cuz I'm a star, practice what practice - OTA?...love. Now, if they don't love him, they will not congratulate him when he does well, not give him a new deal next year, not play him on the first team, and not bump chests. Gee, if I was a betting man, which one would I put my money on? Hmm...Uhh, nice spin but the employer to employee relationship I'm talking about doesn't include players bumping chest and providing the love as you say; that's a employee to employee relationship. Where you pulled that from, I'm not sure. BTW, I didn't say he did anything wrong. All I said was I was puzzled over his behavior of not taking and returning the calls from Gibbs. IF you search the forums you'll find a post from me where I say he's fine until he misses a mandatory event.

Also, you're implying that Mr. Taylor should receive special treatment from the coaches because of one season of play. Please, let's be realistic here. One season doesn't earn you any special treatment at all.

Also, I found your statement of not liking to talk amusing. :)

[redwolf1218]

Coach Gibbs called their research of ST before they drafted him "probably the most researched thing ever". I should hope that he's not crazy or it would be a HUGE indictment of our FO.
makes sense...he's the most researched thing ever on this site, so...i wonder if prior to drafting him, Gibbs was like those of us who cant ignore the behavioral red flags, while Williams was like those of us who cant ignore the physical ability...

[hail2skins]

i cant decide if:
A) they know what's going on and just aren't telling us.
B) no one knows what's going on, including Rosenhaus.I wouldn't be surprised if B was the answer.

[The Skinsinator]

I wouldn't be surprised if B was the answer.

Agreed. Not only that but Drew Rosenhaus is an extremely busy man right now and Taylor is only one of his many highly lucrative players he represents.

[smoak]

Coach Gibbs called their research of ST before they drafted him "probably the most researched thing ever". I should hope that he's not crazy or it would be a HUGE indictment of our FO.

You predict "crazy"... but I don't think that is the case. Taylor is a young rich guy who wants to stay in Miami for as long as he possibly can.... hmmmm wonder why? I'd much rather soak up some rays and party with gorgeous women than have some 300 lb lineman snap my rear with a wet towel...

But, I'd also be there regardless of what I really wanted to do b/c I value championships higher that partying... Sure it just speculation, but that what we're all doing until he misses a day of mandatory events.

[TertiaryView]

Paper says that the practices in question are technically voluntary, so if he is not legally bound by them they are options only, and he might be trying to say... well I like freedom....

Now, if he does not show up for the legally bound practices detailed in his contract, then there is a real problem....

:Peace: I am feeling peaceful today... :)

[BurgundyNGold]

You predict "crazy"... but I don't think that is the case. Taylor is a young rich guy who wants to stay in Miami for as long as he possibly can.... hmmmm wonder why? I'd much rather soak up some rays and party with gorgeous women than have some 300 lb lineman snap my rear with a wet towel...

But, I'd also be there regardless of what I really wanted to do b/c I value championships higher that partying... Sure it just speculation, but that what we're all doing until he misses a day of mandatory events.
No I didn't, I was merely responding to a previous poster who had mentioned what other folks had said. I don't know what his deal is and am I bit ticked off that I should even have to be talking about his offfield issues again. I much prefer praising him for being such as bad*ss.

[redwolf1218]

I think we should not be down on him....know one knows what is going on...I think Gibbs is handling this very delicately because he is young and does not want to put him in a Kwame Brown situation....

Although I am not happy, I do hope that he can get some support from his teammates...

I saw on the Network where there was a guy who played for the Broncos...A rookie at the time.He walked out of training camp and disappeared for two days....Know one knew where he was. Then when he came back, the team surrounded him with compassion and understanding...and also allowed him to be captain for a day..(the day he returned). I though that was special..instead of coming down on him, they embraced him....Love that kinda stuff.
That's why I think Gibbs is handleing this with such delicacy...
i've been thinking about this...it's a good point JTF. when the prodigal son finally comes home, embrace him. i mean as long as it's in time for training camp of course!

[darksome]

Well, well, well...looks like the gang is all here!

Let me read them all (attempts at rebuttal), and I will be sure to respond. I can already tell that some of you misunderstood me. But that is ok...my keyboard still works! :lol1:

Be right back!

[redwolf1218]

Well, well, well...looks like the gang is all here!

Let me read them all (attempts at rebuttal), and I will be sure to respond. I can already tell that some of you misunderstood me. But that is ok...my keyboard still works! :lol1:

Be right back!
lol go for it dude....

[darksome]

lol go for it dude....

Man, Red, I can't believe what just happened!

I had a serious response typed up for BNG and went to send it and the doggone server connection got lost! I can't get my words back!

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

But I know everything I said...so tell 'em leave the light on, I gotta go entertain some company! (wink)

But BNG and his brethren, be advised, I got something for ya, and it will be on the board before H2S cuts the lights out on us! :lol1:

[redwolf1218]

Man, Red, I can't believe what just happened!

I had a serious response typed up for BNG and went to send it and the doggone server connection got lost! I can't get my words back!

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

But I know everything I said...so tell 'em leave the light on, I gotta go entertain some company! (wink)

But BNG and his brethren, be advised, I got something for ya, and it will be on the board before H2S cuts the lights out on us! :lol1:
hahahaha that used to happen to me all the time. highlight and copy before you send it, or get rid of the dial-up and fix your cable hookup. i'll be looking forward to your next post. i'm expecting something like "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, Sean Taylor is the great and powerful Oz."

or like Harvey Keitell from Reservior Dogs...Sean...."Are you cool?...We need you cool."

or that song...Sean..."head strong, take you on, head strong, take on anyone, i know that you are wrong and this is not where you belong [Miami]"

get your a$$ home Sean!

[BurgundyNGold]

Man, Red, I can't believe what just happened!

I had a serious response typed up for BNG and went to send it and the doggone server connection got lost! I can't get my words back!

AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

But I know everything I said...so tell 'em leave the light on, I gotta go entertain some company! (wink)

But BNG and his brethren, be advised, I got something for ya, and it will be on the board before H2S cuts the lights out on us! :lol1:
A couple of hints:

1) Use Notepad for long posts that you don't want to lose, and
2) Ctrl-A, then Ctrl-C to select all and then copy all to your clipboard. If you do this periodically, you should retain the copied text in you clipboard, even if you have problems on postback.

[OCSkinzFan]

Yo turn OCSkinzfan:

Actually, character is a mainstay of Darksome's. You never see me lose it in here. You never see me fall off of the "beaten path". You just see me take it between my legs, dribble around you and dunk it in ya face!
You talk all of that talk about Taylor not being in camp because of his character, or lack thereof. Does T.O. have good character? Does Randy Moss have good character? I think you would agree that they don't. Now, Mr. "pistols at dawn", Imma ask you a "simple" question since you have so much logic that Moi doesn't. ARE THESE TWO OF THE TOP THREE HIGHEST PAID RECEIVERS IN THE LEAGUE THAT ARE LACKING CHARACTER? Study long, study wrong! Also, when you are looking at a game that these character mis-fits are playing, do they ever get chest bumps or love from teammates when they score? Did, in fact, Randy Moss not say he takes plays off before? Does he still get love from the fans when he does his version of the "Lambeau Leap" after a score? Maybe it's just me, I don't know. I think I gotta get my TV fixed cuz it just looks like Moss's teammates swarm him after a score. And he is aloof! Did you know that? So, I guess you can say, he gets love even when he ain't giving love in return huh? But, but, that can't be! It's illogical for that to happen! Get real! this ain't Mr. Robinson's neighborhood! These players are handled according to their play on the field. Case in point. Freddy Mitchell. BIG MOUTH! T.O. BIG MOUTH! Freddie Mitchell. No production - BOOTED!! T.O. Big production! On the team and they can't wait til he returns so they can start making plays. Even Donovan thinks that. ON THE FIELD! They are judged by the fruit they bear! Not by them bearing their BUTT and wiping it on the goalposts! Same with Sean. though not a star yet like them, he is on the rise. Management sees that. So they are laid back and careful how they handle him, especially since he hasn't broken a rule...yet!

OCSkinzFan, he shoots, he sco....ooohhh nooo! Darksome swats it outta the gym! Get it outta here OC!!

BNG!


So you say that SOME players that have bad character play well; so well that some of their teammates actually congratulate them when they play well.
SOOOoo this means that Taylor can have a poor character and might play well in the future and I should pretend to enjoy him hurting the team in favor of him pursuing his personal interests??

This is your logic??

You seem to be playing alone, without a ball.

OCSkinzFan, he shoots, he sco....ooohhh nooo! Darksome swats it outta the gym! Get it outta here OC!!

BNG! Men in white coats come and drag Darksome off the court because he's running around alone in the dark, delusional again.

[BurgundyNGold]

So you say that SOME players that have bad character play well; so well that some of their teammates actually congratulate them when they play well.
SOOOoo this means that Taylor can have a poor character and might play well in the future and I should pretend to enjoy him hurting the team in favor of him pursuing his personal interests??

This is your logic??

You seem to be playing alone, without a ball.

OCSkinzFan, he shoots, he sco....ooohhh nooo! Darksome swats it outta the gym! Get it outta here OC!!

BNG! Men in white coats come and drag Darksome off the court because he's running around alone in the dark, delusional again.
I think D has his fingers in his ears and singing LALALALALALALA!

[redwolf1218]

"This year, I have an opportunity to be in an off-season program that I wasn't in last year," he said. "I have the ability to get stronger, faster and more prepared for mini-camps and training camp."

That's a quote from Demetric Evans in the article about him on redskins.com. Too bad Taylor doesnt look at it as an opportunity.

[Hate d' cowboys]

Most likely, will not start in the pre-season and maybe opener, if Gibb shistory repeats.

Taylor actually baffles me. He cires and whines about how he got a raw deal with the media, got off to a bad start, but ye, he does this crap. What does he seriosuly expect???? Taylor is no doubt our major, main head case on this team.

You got it boss, truthfully if Taylor pushes too much he may see himself on the bench for a substantial part of the season (or even worse). Make no mistake, Gibbs is old school, which is why I love him and above all, character, work ethic and integrity are far more valuable to him than raw talent. Sean is only hurting himself. Anybody remember the name Mark Rypien? He was a God for one season and decided that the next season he would hold out for a new contract. Anybody remember what Rypien was worth after 92, NOTHING! Come back soon Sean before you wreck your dreams and lose your loyal fans.

[skinslover]

does anyone have a article of cp actually saying st is burnt out. cp said he had a dramatic rookie season and he needs to step away right now. never said he didnt want to play football anymore

[BurgundyNGold]

does anyone have a article of cp actually saying st is burnt out. cp said he had a dramatic rookie season and he needs to step away right now. never said he didnt want to play football anymore
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/17/AR2005051701249.html
Bottom of the 3rd paragraph.

[skinslover]

well that still makes no sense if cp says he burnt out from football then at the beginning of the next paragraph he says that he doing the proper training to be ready for training camp

[redwolf1218]

the title of this thread is perfect, because each day is always the day after "yesterday" so it can never die and the answer is always "no" until he shows up.

[OCSkinzFan]

5/23/05

Report: No Sean Taylor sightings at Redskins camp.

Some fans maintain that Shawn isn't holding out: Just because every Redskin player, coach, grounds keeper, water-boy, and cheerleader, has come to camp at the request of the coaching staff, doesn't mean Shawn has to. He's special and sensitive and should be treated that way! And he hasn't done anything wrong, what's the big deal?!

[hail2skins]

5/23/05

Report: No Sean Taylor sightings at Redskins camp.

Some fans maintain that Shawn isn't holding out: Just because every Redskin player, coach, grounds keeper, water-boy, and cheerleader, has come to camp at the request of the coaching staff, doesn't mean Shawn has to. He's special and sensitive and should be treated that way! And he hasn't done anything wrong, what's the big deal?!Is all of this sarcasm? If not, that statement in bold above is crazy.

[OCSkinzFan]

Is all of this sarcasm? If not, that statement in bold above is crazy.

Notice I said, "Some fans maintain."

It was my weak attempt at The Daily Show news report type humor.

Sorry if I wasn't sarcastic enough, I'll try harder. :)

[hail2skins]

Notice I said, "Some fans maintain."

It was my weak attempt at The Daily Show news report type humor.

Sorry if I wasn't sarcastic enough, I'll try harder. :)
That's why I asked and I'm not familiar with The Daily Show.

[skin-deep]

Who the hell is Sean Taylor? He's one step away from.......he's been in the league for ONE YEAR! He can't answer a phone call? He had a tough year in the spotlight?.....WHAT? That's got to be a joke. This guy doesn't show up like tomorrow....trade his ---. Someone please change my mind about this guy.

[redwolf1218]

This thread cracks me up. i hope this thread keeps going until the day after Taylor shows up and the answer to the title question becomes "yes".

[OCSkinzFan]

5/24/05

Report: No Taylor sightings today.

Earlier this morning a report indicated that Shawn Taylor was seen swimming in the Gulf near Miami, but experts confirmed that this was actually one bad a$$ shark devouring a small watercraft and its passengers.

[Skinsguy1]

Who the hell is Sean Taylor? He's one step away from.......he's been in the league for ONE YEAR! He can't answer a phone call? He had a tough year in the spotlight?.....WHAT? That's got to be a joke. This guy doesn't show up like tomorrow....trade his ---. Someone please change my mind about this guy.

The guy has the potential to not only be one of the top safeties of all-time but has the athletic ability to change the safety position in general. Personally I'd rather have a guy not come to voluntary workouts than bad mouth the club or verbally holdout like TO has done.

[LATrueRedskin]

Who the hell is Sean Taylor? He's one step away from.......he's been in the league for ONE YEAR! He can't answer a phone call? He had a tough year in the spotlight?.....WHAT? That's got to be a joke. This guy doesn't show up like tomorrow....trade his ---. Someone please change my mind about this guy.

Easy there cowboy. I'd say there's reason for concern if he cuts off communication with his boss, but let's not go crazy. He's young and naive, and he still probably thinks the world waits for him. I think sooner or later he'll get a reality check of somesort, and realize the Redskins are bigger than him. Don't jump ship on him yet, he's a young guy with too much money.

[OCSkinzFan]

5/25/05

Report: A continued lack of Taylor sightings ...er...continues.

It has been rumored though that Shown is interested in playing an updated modern version of Hamlet called Beastlet, in which Taylor would play the starring roll. Here he is practicing his famous soliloquy:

"To show or not to show, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler for a play'ah t'suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous media scrutiny,
Or to hold and chill low key at the crib?
What'a play'ah gonna do, but chill and puzzle hate 'ahs,
But this makes us bear unworthily
The burden and brunt of the media yet again
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is slicked o'er with the pale cast of thought;
Currents turn awry and lose the name of action."

[redwolf1218]

i was just watching the video on Redskins.com of the o-line squaring off against the d-line in one-on-one drills. they are practicing, being coached, and learning things, and that probably goes the same for other drills at other positions on the team, and it's upsetting that Taylor is not there participating. To think that these sessions are meaningless and there is nothing lost by not attending, just because they are not mandatory, is ludicrous.

Also, i dont know how much he is working out, if at all, other than the one sighting of him playing a half-court b-ball game, but these guys are running around hitting and wrestling with each other, and you get a different kind of workout from that kind of stuff that you do from just lifting weights and playing half court b-ball.

[hail2skins]

Did you guys run darksome away already.

[CNYSkinFan]

5/25/05

Report: A continued lack of Taylor sightings ...er...continues.

It has been rumored though that Shown is interested in playing an updated modern version of Hamlet called Beastlet, in which Taylor would play the starring roll. Here he is practicing his famous soliloquy:

"To show or not to show, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler for a play'ah t'suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous media scrutiny,
Or to hold and chill low key at the crib?
What'a play'ah gonna do, but chill and puzzle hate 'ahs,
But this makes us bear unworthily
The burden and brunt of the media yet again
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is slicked o'er with the pale cast of thought;
Currents turn awry and lose the name of action."

Absolutely hilarious. Bravo!!!! :lol1:

[BurgundyNGold]

Did you guys run darksome away already.
Not me. I thought I was rather civil.

[BurgundyNGold]

5/25/05

Report: A continued lack of Taylor sightings ...er...continues.

It has been rumored though that Shown is interested in playing an updated modern version of Hamlet called Beastlet, in which Taylor would play the starring roll. Here he is practicing his famous soliloquy:

"To show or not to show, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler for a play'ah t'suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous media scrutiny,
Or to hold and chill low key at the crib?
What'a play'ah gonna do, but chill and puzzle hate 'ahs,
But this makes us bear unworthily
The burden and brunt of the media yet again
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is slicked o'er with the pale cast of thought;
Currents turn awry and lose the name of action."
Very well done, OC!

[OCSkinzFan]

Very well done, OC!
Shakespeare is rolling in his 400 year old grave.

[redwolf1218]

Did you guys run darksome away already.
i miss the guy, he was up-beat and positive, where'd he go? email him, tell him to bring his pro-Taylor stuff back!

[OCSkinzFan]

5/26/05

Report: Shawn Taylor has still not been seen in or around DC,

but his spokesperson released a statement saying that, "Shawn is in favor of those fillabuster things."

[OCSkinzFan]

i miss the guy, he was up-beat and positive, where'd he go? email him, tell him to bring his pro-Taylor stuff back!
I think he WAS Shawn Taylor. I mean, no one has ever seen them together... Coincidence???

[OCSkinzFan]

5/27/05

Report: No Sean Taylors yet.

His coach Joe Gibbs said,"We've got a bunch of guys out here working themselves silly trying to build a football team and we've got somebody missing. I certainly don't consider him a lost cause, he's a great player. But this has been a big disappointment."

[redwolf1218]

I think he WAS Shawn Taylor. I mean, no one has ever seen them together... Coincidence???
no one has seen of them at all in months.... :cry:

every time i see a new post in this thread i check it out, hoping to hear something positive about Taylor's whereabouts. what a let down.

[SKINSHOG]

I think i'm starting to hate Sean Taylor, i dont' care how good he is

[IMALILTEAPOT]

I think i'm starting to hate Sean Taylor, i dont' care how good he is
Not me. I love Sean Taylor as much as I did when I saw him pick off two passes in the denver preseason game. This workouts arent madnatory. Yes, he needs to be with his teammates and get chemistry, but as long as he goes to the mandatory camps, im straight. Im not overreacting at all to this

[RedskinForLife]

Not me. I love Sean Taylor as much as I did when I saw him pick off two passes in the denver preseason game. This workouts arent madnatory. Yes, he needs to be with his teammates and get chemistry, but as long as he goes to the mandatory camps, im straight. Im not overreacting at all to this

I feel the same way as long as he is here for the mandatory camps then I will be perfectly happy.

[SKINSHOG]

For me, it not that he's not here, its that he's ignoring Joe Gibbs, as if he doesn't care what Gibbs has to say and he doesn't respect his leadership. If you don't wanna go to the OTA's, just tell Gibbs that, don't ignore your coach.

[gibbsisgod]

for what it is worth I think gibbs has spoken with him and for whatever reason he will not let it be known to the public. Maybe we wouldn't like what the convo was about or maybe it was private, but for some reason I find it really hard that one coach can't talk to his player but a player can talk to him. It just doesn't feel right to me

[BurgundyNGold]

Shakespeare is rolling in his 400 year old grave.
As long as he's rolling with the B&G. :D

[OCSkinzFan]

The title of this thread just gets funnier and funnier.

[akhhorus]

The title of this thread just gets funnier and funnier.

Too bad its not doing anything for your pathetic attempts at humor in this thread.

[OCSkinzFan]

How's this for funny?

Akh on Taylor:
Because you're looking at the glass half broken. You seem to want reasons to not like him. You need much more than what he's done so far to be labeled a head case.


Glass half broken? Funny, or pathetic?

[redwolf1218]

finally an answer to the question of this thread. yes, taylor finally showed up yesterday...however he showed up at the police station, rather than at Redskins park. who would have thought.

[OCSkinzFan]

finally an answer to the question of this thread. yes, taylor finally showed up yesterday...however he showed up at the police station, rather than at Redskins park. who would have thought.
Well at least he showed up, right? :banghead: