Champ Bailey = Overrated

[koepke25]

Check out the section on Bailey! Why do people think he is an elite corner?
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2062377

[C-7]

This will be quickly moved to Navajo.



Yes, he is overrated. Springs is better and he proved it last year.

[The Skinsinator]

Regarding the article I do like how they mentioned his skills were not all that last year. However I dispute the claim that he gave up big plays because of his preference to take risks. That is only partially true. He also gave up too many plays because he got burnt. No big play. He just got burnt. One of these days maybe the media will see the light on this guy. Very good corner not great. Shutdown corners dont really exist in the nfl anymore.

[CornerBlitz]

This probally will be moved to Navejo but I think he is very over-rated. I remember last year I had Chad Johnson on my fantasy team; I sat him out because I thought that Bailey would shut him down. It was either a monday night game or sunday night game and CJ had over 100 yards and 2 TDs (I'm not completly sure about the TDs). He made Champ Bailey look silly and I remember the Broncos even had to double cover him with a safety at one point. Well, that's my story and in conclusion Bailey is over-rated or Johnson is the greatest reciever in the game.

[hail2skins]

Please post in the correct forum. This has been moved.

[Santheb]

Okay guys, I think we all realize this by now that Champ Bailey is overrated. I think everybody here knew that he was overrated when he got traded, anyway.

[redwolf1218]

a true "shut down corner" is so much quicker and faster than any receiver, so much more athletic, that he is not only able to cover, but he can play off and bait the QB to throw, knowing he can recover, get the pick, and take it to the house as the fastest guy on the field. that's when coaches tell their QB's never to even look to that guy's side of the field. that's what Darrel Green and D. Sanders were capable of in their prime. the way you combat that is to send someone deep and take that corner down the field and just remove him and the receiver from the play, so you are playing 10 on 10. you can switch receivers on him and try to wear him out, but there again, he's in top physical condition and can take it. that guy does not exist right now, and surely Champ is not that guy.

[The Skinsinator]

a true "shut down corner" is so much quicker and faster than any receiver, so much more athletic, that he is not only able to cover, but he can play off and bait the QB to throw, knowing he can recover, get the pick, and take it to the house as the fastest guy on the field. that's when coaches tell their QB's never to even look to that guy's side of the field. that's what Darrel Green and D. Sanders were capable of in their prime. the way you combat that is to send someone deep and take that corner down the field and just remove him and the receiver from the play, so you are playing 10 on 10. you can switch receivers on him and try to wear him out, but there again, he's in top physical condition and can take it. that guy does not exist right now, and surely Champ is not that guy.

Well said RedWolf. Thats why currently no shutdown corners exist. Champ is good. Frankly I think Samari Rolle is better his off the field antics aside. It is very difficult to even have a shutdown corner in todays nfl because of the new contact rule. Nonetheless I still feel Deion and Darrel Green would have been because of how talented they really were. Shutdowns corners today are a true luxury and not a neccessity as Springs/Smoot proved last year and Springs/Rogers will prove this year.

[redwolf1218]

Well said RedWolf. Thats why currently no shutdown corners exist. Champ is good. Frankly I think Samari Rolle is better his off the field antics aside. It is very difficult to even have a shutdown corner in todays nfl because of the new contact rule. Nonetheless I still feel Deion and Darrel Green would have been because of how talented they really were. Shutdowns corners today are a true luxury and not a neccessity as Springs/Smoot proved last year and Springs/Rogers will prove this year.
i thought the same thing, because they never relied on size and contact. they were never the type to bump at the line, they just covered.

[smoss]

Of course he's overrated, he was only great when he was here just like Coles sucks now that he is gone :rolleyes:

[smoss]

W/ the rules changes last year there weren't any true shut down corners, reeivers had such a huge advantage of corners it wasn't fair so to compare Champ last year to other eras isn't fair. Who were the true shut down corners last year? None b/c they don't exist anymore.

[koepke25]

Of course he's overrated, he was only great when he was here just like Coles sucks now that he is gone :rolleyes:
Actually I don't think I'm alone in saying that after the 2003 season when Bailey blew coverage after coverage he was no longer thought of as a great corner in my eyes. The same goes for Coles and his 1 touchdown last year. I still think they are both good players, just not the elite players some people make them out to be!

[akhhorus]

Champ has all the physical ability and talent in the world, but he regularly gets beaten by Wideouts he shouldn't be beaten by. And I(and many others here) were critical of him on this, long before he left the skins. I don't know where the hole in his game is, whether its mental, physical, technique, etc; but it is clear that you cannot count on him shutting down wideouts regularly. Jerry Porter is a good young wideout, but Champ shouldn't be beaten for 3 TDs by him.

What the Broncos gave him in his contract is ridiculous, and because of that contract and an undeserved rep as a ball hawk(c'mon how many of Champ's picks were against really crappy teams? Where was he when the skins really needed him?) and his obvious physical gifts, Champ gets lauded as a great corner. He isn't. And he clearly isnt worth the 60 million that he got from Denver. The funniest thing to read now is all the excuses the Broncos fans, team and beat writers are making for Champ-despite him making the Pro Bowl-that Champ struggled in Zone coverage, that he had no pass rush(and he did in DC, which is crap, the skins pass rush was never that good). You don't make excuses for star players. Portis had plenty of mitigating factors: no passing attack, opposing defenses focusing completely on him, inconsistant oline, bad rushing scheme for him....and he had 1300 yards.

Charles Woodsen and Champ are a lot alike, unbelievable skills and ability, but will never reach their potential. I would have loved for the skins to keep Champ, but not even at the final deal they offered him(6 years-18 million bonus-45/50 million total). Champ will make a bunch of Pro Bowls, but he'll never be considered as good as Deion.

[redwolf1218]

one of the best things about Champ was that he never missed a game in his 5 years here. i respected his durability. i'm sure Greg Williams would have loved to have him here. if he was so much better and faster than anyone else on the field, as he should be with that contract he's got, then he should not get beat regurlary and he should be used more on offense. D. Sanders was used occasionally on offense because he was clearly a better athlete and faster than anyone on the roster. When Darrel Green stepped onto the field to return a punt, everyone knew if he ever got away, no one would catch him. Everyone was in awe of those guys in their prime. Those same things can not be said about Champ.

[Ramsey2Moss]

Champ has all the physical ability and talent in the world, but he regularly gets beaten by Wideouts he shouldn't be beaten by. And I(and many others here) were critical of him on this, long before he left the skins. I don't know where the hole in his game is, whether its mental, physical, technique, etc; but it is clear that you cannot count on him shutting down wideouts regularly. Jerry Porter is a good young wideout, but Champ shouldn't be beaten for 3 TDs by him.

What the Broncos gave him in his contract is ridiculous, and because of that contract and an undeserved rep as a ball hawk(c'mon how many of Champ's picks were against really crappy teams? Where was he when the skins really needed him?) and his obvious physical gifts, Champ gets lauded as a great corner. He isn't. And he clearly isnt worth the 60 million that he got from Denver. The funniest thing to read now is all the excuses the Broncos fans, team and beat writers are making for Champ-despite him making the Pro Bowl-that Champ struggled in Zone coverage, that he had no pass rush(and he did in DC, which is crap, the skins pass rush was never that good). You don't make excuses for star players. Portis had plenty of mitigating factors: no passing attack, opposing defenses focusing completely on him, inconsistant oline, bad rushing scheme for him....and he had 1300 yards.

Charles Woodsen and Champ are a lot alike, unbelievable skills and ability, but will never reach their potential. I would have loved for the skins to keep Champ, but not even at the final deal they offered him(6 years-18 million bonus-45/50 million total). Champ will make a bunch of Pro Bowls, but he'll never be considered as good as Deion.

Excellent post. I agree wholeheartedly.

[Dept_of_Defense]

I never liked Champ Bailey as much as I liked Smoot. Now, with the 5yd contact rule, a shutdown corner does not exist. I saw Champ and Smoot both get burned a number of times and although they are very good corners, they aren't shutdown corners. I think all cornerbacks are overrated and overpaid. My definition of a shutdown corner would be someone who can make the quarterback not even look in his direction b/c he's not planning on throwing that way due to the coverage. Maybe he gets the ball thrown his way once or twice a game, but without success.
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[828791Redskins]

Just about every Denver game I watched Champ was getting burned by somebody.I think we're going to make him look bad next year.

[skinslover]

so now everyone hates champ because he left the skins huh. so are yall going to put smoot down when he is in minnesota. I never heard of bailey being overrated when he was in dc. thats all im trying to say.

[The Skinsinator]

so now everyone hates champ because he left the skins huh. so are yall going to put smoot down when he is in minnesota. I never heard of bailey being overrated when he was in dc. thats all im trying to say.

First of all I dont hate him however I dislike him. This is true because he badmouthed the Redskins and Snyder multiples times after his depature not because he left. Yes hes overrated. Hes not a shutdown corner nor the best cornerback in the nfl. I began to conclude this during the end of his Redskin playing days. His Denver stint last season was all the evidence I needed to further strengthen this opinion.

[LATrueRedskin]

I think Champ will have a fantastic year next year for the Broncos. He had an off year last year (very off), but I think he'll come back to being the top corner in the game. He's not as physical as Shawn Springs, but his make-up time is incredible and his eye for the ball is still very good. I'm happy with my Shawn Springs, but I don't think Champ is overrated. I don't see many corners better than he is.

[akhhorus]

so now everyone hates champ because he left the skins huh. so are yall going to put smoot down when he is in minnesota. I never heard of bailey being overrated when he was in dc. thats all im trying to say.

You weren't listening. Ever since that final year, when he got burned regularly by the like of James McKnight and Marty Booker, he was being called overrated. I never thought he was that great anyways.

[Skinz4lyfe]

You weren't listening. Ever since that final year, when he got burned regularly by the like of James McKnight and Marty Booker, he was being called overrated. I never thought he was that great anyways.

Don't forget Amani Toomer too. Toomer owns Champ.

[akhhorus]

Don't forget Amani Toomer too. Toomer owns Champ.

Any halfway decent wideout owns a piece of champ. The only person Champ owns a piece of is Jake Plummer. Out of the 21 career INTs Champ has, 5 of them are off of Plummer. 13 of his 21 INTs came from teams that would end up with sub-.500 records that year. Those two stats should tell you a whole lot about Champ. Does well off of crappy competition.

[Aurej]

Check out the section on Bailey! Why do people think he is an elite corner?

Most of us here don't.

[koepke25]

so now everyone hates champ because he left the skins huh. so are yall going to put smoot down when he is in minnesota. I never heard of bailey being overrated when he was in dc. thats all im trying to say.
I liked both players, I don't think smoot is overrated like Champ. They both are good corners and I wish them well, I just think Champ is extremely overrated and if he plays like he has for the past two seasons he should not make the Pro Bowl ever again.

[koepke25]

I think Champ will have a fantastic year next year for the Broncos. He had an off year last year (very off), but I think he'll come back to being the top corner in the game. He's not as physical as Shawn Springs, but his make-up time is incredible and his eye for the ball is still very good. I'm happy with my Shawn Springs, but I don't think Champ is overrated. I don't see many corners better than he is.
He didn't play well in 2003 either. He made a ton of mental mistakes,

[CornerBlitz]

Unlike Bailey, I don't believe Smoot is over-rated. He is a great physical player that is willing to do anything to win. He comes up on run support and makes good open field tackles. I remember one game he had broken ribs and had the willpower to play; Not only play but even get a couple of INTs. I will be rooting for smoot when he is playing with the vikings.

[GWBlitzST]

[QUOTE=akhhorus]The only person Champ owns a piece of is Jake Plummer. Out of the 21 career INTs Champ has, 5 of them are off of Plummer[QUOTE]
Sucks for him he can't do that any more, but I'm sure he has a great time in practice!

[X-Factor13]

If anyone becomes a shutdown corner in the nfl, i sure hope it's fred smoot. I love that guy and i'll miss him to death when the season starts.

[smoak]

Of course he's overrated, he was only great when he was here just like Coles sucks now that he is gone :rolleyes:

Exactly. I appreciate what Champ did for us and understand that while he is overrated in the media, we here at HR make him sound like dog food. Throw money out of the equation and Champ would be an upgrade along side Springs. Yes he is overrated, but he is a good guy and a really good CB.... Just not great.

[RedskinsDave]

Exactly. I appreciate what Champ did for us and understand that while he is overrated in the media, we here at HR make him sound like dog food. Throw money out of the equation and Champ would be an upgrade along side Springs. Yes he is overrated, but he is a good guy and a really good CB.... Just not great.

He was a good guy. For some reason he became a trash talker and punk once he got paid. He seemed to be more business-like when he was here.

[C-7]

so now everyone hates champ because he left the skins huh?


Yes


so are yall going to put smoot down when he is in minnesota?


Yes


I never heard of bailey being overrated when he was in dc.


So what? Now we know he is...

Is it so hard to understand?

[akhhorus]

If anyone becomes a shutdown corner in the nfl, i sure hope it's fred smoot. I love that guy and i'll miss him to death when the season starts.

Smoot will never become one unless he learns to defend the deep pass and grows 3-4 inches.

[RedskinsDave]

Champ is only listed at an inch taller.

[redskin_rich]

Champ is only listed at an inch taller.
Champ is faster and has a better vertical jump but only half the heart that Smoot has.

[smoak]

He was a good guy. For some reason he became a trash talker and punk once he got paid. He seemed to be more business-like when he was here.

Definitely. I think he got fed up with the "Snyder Years", but either way I think his attitude change played a part in his down graded play. Two or three years into his career here I wanted him to retire a Redskin, but we're better off now.... And I think Akh brought up how an interestingly high % of his picks came against Plummer.

[akhhorus]

Definitely. I think he got fed up with the "Snyder Years", but either way I think his attitude change played a part in his down graded play. Two or three years into his career here I wanted him to retire a Redskin, but we're better off now.... And I think Akh brought up how an interestingly high % of his picks came against Plummer.

Not only that, but how many of his picks were off of bad teams. Champ rarely got a pick against top competition. hey, stats are good for something!

[IowaSkinsFan]

Smoot will never become one unless he learns to defend the deep pass and grows 3-4 inches.

...and shaves .2 off his 40 time.....

[Biggie]

Not only that, but how many of his picks were off of bad teams. Champ rarely got a pick against top competition. hey, stats are good for something!

Indeed. Where was Champ when Indy destroyed his team in the playoffs? Denver thought that he could carry their entire secondary when they had to face Manning in the postseason, and they found he couldn't... the hard way. Perhaps that would explain the three corners in the draft?