Last time I bring up Czaban, probably

[BandWagon]

I caught the very tailend of the Redskins segment today and Czabes tone was wicked. Even the usually more tempered Bram seemed to be really laying into the team...no depth at MLB, no depth in secondary, even saying if you lose anyone in the secondary you're going to end up having Ade Jimoh cover T.O. It seemed like more of the usual 'skins bashing, but I know the segment was much longer than the 5 or so minutes I caught. Did they have ANYTHING encouraging to say? And when we get this program turned around, we should send a big old letter off to them, telling them they were WRONG! Ok, I'm better now...

[whitskins]

Too bad the secondary is stronger now than the one that shut down Randy Moss and the Vikings air attack in Week 17 last season. And no depth at MLB? We'll see about that, I'm sure these guys were crying in their cherrios this time last year when Antonio Pierce was our #1 MLB, a career special teamer. Maybe if these morons weren't so dense they'd recognize that if Gregg Williams wasn't confident we have guys who can fill the role then we would have RESIGNED PIERCE.

I'm tired of these morons and frankly I'm relieved that since I have recently moved out of the area, I no longer have to listen to them. I'm really annoyed that when this team finally turns it around, fans like most of us on this site are going to have to share that success with whiny punks like Steve Czaban. That guy can go put on a Tom Brady jersey for all I care because all this guy knows how to do is follow the herd. I even read an interview with Bram once where Bram very cautiously so much as admitted that Czabe only does this crap to get attention and create a jerk personality to create controversy.

This guy should go back to producing college radio because he's just another one of these hacks who prefer to become a "character" on the airwaves instead of actually a student of the game and the team. I'm done with these morons, can't wait to hear them taking all the credit for our team when they surprise us all this season.

[smoak]

Honestly, Czaban is a no talent @ssclown, and I wouldn't care for 1 second if he died. It is one thing to rip the team, but he rips the team (including Gibbs) constantly and hides behind the "oh but I'm a fan" shield. He is a coward that basis his opinion on no or skewed facts. He is on my list of top 5 most hated media personalities.

[openallnight]

I've got to agree w/ Whitskin here. This is obviously some ploy for attention as LB and DB are arguably the deepest spots on our roster

[redwolf1218]

That is interesting that he would choose the secondary and linebacker positions to mention a lack of depth, when even a minimal amount of research reveals impressive depth at those positions. of course, a few months ago, his statements might have been true, because i was worried about middle linebacker and safety also, but not anymore. It's actually a pretty impressive group now, and some tough decision will have to be made as far as cuts are concerned. look at this depth at these positions:

SKIN Right Corner HGT WGT Speed
21 HARRIS Walt 5-11.0 191 4.44
37 BROWN Rufus(tx) 5-9.2 187 4.38
23 JIMOH Ade 6-0.0 195 4.48
32 ROGERS Carlos - 6-0.3 196 4.44
__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Left Corner HGT WGT Speed
24 SPRINGS Shawn 5-11.0 188 4.43
HAWKINS Artell 5- 9.0 191 4.38
38 WILDS Garnell 5-11.0 194 4.50

__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Free Safety HGT WGT Speed
21 TAYLOR Sean 6-2.0 231 4.51
PRIOLEAU Pierson 5-9.0 191 4.49
STOUTMIRE 5-11 205
__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Strong Safety HGT WGT Speed
24 DIXON Tony 6-0.0 197 4.46
41 BOWEN Matt 6-1.0 200 4.47
25 CLARK Ryan 5-10.5 194 4.48

__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Weak Backer HGT WGT Speed
56 ARRINGTON Lavar 6-2.2 257 4.49
HOLDMAN Warrick 6-1.0 235 4.74
ALLEN Brian 5-11.7 238 4.61
NEWBERRY Jared 6-1.1 234 4.75
__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Strong Backer HGT WGT Speed
53 WASHINGTON Marcus. 6-3.5 252 4.59
57 CLEMONS Chris 6-3.0 234 4.62
50 CAMPBELL Khary 6-1.0 247 4.76
TUIPALA Joe 6-0.4 244 4.78
__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Middle Backer HGT WGT Speed
98 MARSHALL Lemar 6-2.0 227 4.48
54 SMITH Clifton - 6-2.4 257 4.84
McCUNE Robert 6-0.0 245 4.51
51 BARNES Brandon 6-3.0 234 4.68

[openallnight]

I agree with you RW. I think we've got alot of talent at both positions.
Although, I don't necessarily put alot of stock into 40 times. There's football speed and there's 40 speed. For example there's no way Bowen is faster than Taylor at running down a RB or breaking on a ball.

[flave1969]

That is interesting that he would choose the secondary and linebacker positions to mention a lack of depth, when even a minimal amount of research reveals impressive depth at those positions. of course, a few months ago, his statements might have been true, because i was worried about middle linebacker and safety also, but not anymore. It's actually a pretty impressive group now, and some tough decision will have to be made as far as cuts are concerned. look at this depth at these positions:

SKIN Right Corner HGT WGT Speed
21 HARRIS Walt 5-11.0 191 4.44
37 BROWN Rufus(tx) 5-9.2 187 4.38
23 JIMOH Ade 6-0.0 195 4.48
32 ROGERS Carlos - 6-0.3 196 4.44
__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Left Corner HGT WGT Speed
24 SPRINGS Shawn 5-11.0 188 4.43
HAWKINS Artell 5- 9.0 191 4.38
38 WILDS Garnell 5-11.0 194 4.50

__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Free Safety HGT WGT Speed
21 TAYLOR Sean 6-2.0 231 4.51
PRIOLEAU Pierson 5-9.0 191 4.49
STOUTMIRE 5-11 205
__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Strong Safety HGT WGT Speed
24 DIXON Tony 6-0.0 197 4.46
41 BOWEN Matt 6-1.0 200 4.47
25 CLARK Ryan 5-10.5 194 4.48

__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Weak Backer HGT WGT Speed
56 ARRINGTON Lavar 6-2.2 257 4.49
HOLDMAN Warrick 6-1.0 235 4.74
ALLEN Brian 5-11.7 238 4.61
NEWBERRY Jared 6-1.1 234 4.75
__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Strong Backer HGT WGT Speed
53 WASHINGTON Marcus. 6-3.5 252 4.59
57 CLEMONS Chris 6-3.0 234 4.62
50 CAMPBELL Khary 6-1.0 247 4.76
TUIPALA Joe 6-0.4 244 4.78
__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Middle Backer HGT WGT Speed
98 MARSHALL Lemar 6-2.0 227 4.48
54 SMITH Clifton - 6-2.4 257 4.84
McCUNE Robert 6-0.0 245 4.51
51 BARNES Brandon 6-3.0 234 4.68


Pretty conclusive list there. If they cant recognise that Gregg Williams could probably make our Cheerleaders into a Top Ten D, more fool them.

[redwolf1218]

I agree with you RW. I think we've got alot of talent at both positions.
Although, I don't necessarily put alot of stock into 40 times. There's football speed and there's 40 speed. For example there's no way Bowen is faster than Taylor at running down a RB or breaking on a ball.
i agree with you, there's also 40 times in track shoes with shorts on, and then there's speed on the field in full pads. i get what you're saying, and especially now that Bowen has had surgery, i doubt he's faster. plus if i recall, didnt Taylor have a sore hamstring when he recorded his time at the combine? i seem to remember something about that.

Tony Dixon has impressive size and speed.

[dj_stouty]

Czaban is probably just overstating the fact that we lost Smoot and Pierce.

However, he is correct in the fact that the Skins are replacing them with players who have yet to prove themselves at this particular position or have yet to play a down in the NFL.

I think Rogers is going to be a beast...but he is a rookie, and he did replace a solid 4-year starter in Smoot. He has a lot to prove. I think he is up to the task, but only time will tell...

Pierce may have been a product of the system...but he was a great product of the system. (I think he is a better MLB with Washington than he ever will be in NY) I am more concerned about who is going to start at MLB than I am at Corner. Marshall was adequate in filling in well for Lavar last year, but he has no experience at playing the Mike position...and may not have the experience to be a play caller and audible adjuster. Holdman is working on his 3rd team in just as many years...and has yet to bounce back to his career year in 2001. McCune is also a rookie, and has yet to get his taste of the NFL.

So yes...depth at corner and mlb also concerns me a bit.

[redwolf1218]

Czaban is probably just overstating the fact that we lost Smoot and Pierce.

However, he is correct in the fact that the Skins are replacing them with players who have yet to prove themselves at this particular position or have yet to play a down in the NFL.

I think Rogers is going to be a beast...but he is a rookie, and he did replace a solid 4-year starter in Smoot. He has a lot to prove. I think he is up to the task, but only time will tell...

Pierce may have been a product of the system...but he was a great product of the system. (I think he is a better MLB with Washington than he ever will be in NY) I am more concerned about who is going to start at MLB than I am at Corner. Marshall was adequate in filling in well for Lavar last year, but he has no experience at playing the Mike position...and may not have the experience to be a play caller and audible adjuster. Holdman is working on his 3rd team in just as many years...and has yet to bounce back to his career year in 2001. McCune is also a rookie, and has yet to get his taste of the NFL.

So yes...depth at corner and mlb also concerns me a bit.

i think Williams will eventually make Holdman and Marshall interchangeable at linebacker, inside and outside.

for the corner depth, Rogers will recover, Wilds should be solid, but i dont know what we have in Artrell Hawkins. he could be another Walt Harris (solid) or he could be the next Ralph Brown (cut).

[dj_stouty]

i think Williams will eventually make Holdman and Marshall interchangeable at linebacker, inside and outside.

That scares me a bit.

I know that Williams is masterful in swapping out DEs every other play for optimal effectiveness. And it worked well, as guys like Evans and Warner did well in pass rush and run defense.

However, when it comes to the middle of the LB corp, I would think you would want someone playing the position full time. Someone who has looked over the offense on every play and learns their tendencies. I don't think you can do that by swapping out MLBs throughout the game.

Lets all hope Marshall (or McCune?) steps up and becomes a full time performer at Mike.

[redwolf1218]

That scares me a bit.

I know that Williams is masterful in swapping out DEs every other play for optimal effectiveness. And it worked well, as guys like Evans and Warner did well in pass rush and run defense.

However, when it comes to the middle of the LB corp, I would think you would want someone playing the position full time. Someone who has looked over the offense on every play and learns their tendencies. I don't think you can do that by swapping out MLBs throughout the game.

Lets all hope Marshall (or McCune?) steps up and becomes a full time performer at Mike.
i dont think he will swap them in and out. what i meant was, i think he will have them both prepared in case they are needed for either position. Similar to how he used Marshall in practice last year in the middle when Pierce needed a break, maybe he will do that again this year at times, just in case.

[Redskinmayhem]

you know, I used to tollerate Czaban just for the redskins news fix but the more and more I listen to him, the more negative he seems. Granted no on wants blatant homerism but come on, the guy sounds like a Dallass fan.

[dj_stouty]

i dont think he will swap them in and out. what i meant was, i think he will have them both prepared in case they are needed for either position. Similar to how he used Marshall in practice last year in the middle when Pierce needed a break, maybe he will do that again this year at times, just in case.

Gotcha.

Lets hope someone stands out at MLB...

[GWBlitzST]

Lets all hope Marshall (or McCune?) steps up and becomes a full time performer at Mike.

I'm kind of hoping Holdman wins the job. He's got the size and experience that we probably will need at the beginning of this season. Then, after game 7, in comes McCune and the NFL is never the same with he, Lavar, Taylor, Griffen, Washington, Bowen, Springs, and Rogers on the field at the same time! Our boys can hit.

[Kanman21]

SKIN Right Corner HGT WGT Speed
21 HARRIS Walt 5-11.0 191 4.44
37 BROWN Rufus(tx) 5-9.2 187 4.38
23 JIMOH Ade 6-0.0 195 4.48
32 ROGERS Carlos - 6-0.3 196 4.44
__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Left Corner HGT WGT Speed
24 SPRINGS Shawn 5-11.0 188 4.43
HAWKINS Artell 5- 9.0 191 4.38
38 WILDS Garnell 5-11.0 194 4.50

__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Free Safety HGT WGT Speed
21 TAYLOR Sean 6-2.0 231 4.51
PRIOLEAU Pierson 5-9.0 191 4.49
STOUTMIRE 5-11 205
__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Strong Safety HGT WGT Speed
24 DIXON Tony 6-0.0 197 4.46
41 BOWEN Matt 6-1.0 200 4.47
25 CLARK Ryan 5-10.5 194 4.48

__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Weak Backer HGT WGT Speed
56 ARRINGTON Lavar 6-2.2 257 4.49
HOLDMAN Warrick 6-1.0 235 4.74
ALLEN Brian 5-11.7 238 4.61
NEWBERRY Jared 6-1.1 234 4.75
__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Strong Backer HGT WGT Speed
53 WASHINGTON Marcus. 6-3.5 252 4.59
57 CLEMONS Chris 6-3.0 234 4.62
50 CAMPBELL Khary 6-1.0 247 4.76
TUIPALA Joe 6-0.4 244 4.78
__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Middle Backer HGT WGT Speed
98 MARSHALL Lemar 6-2.0 227 4.48
54 SMITH Clifton - 6-2.4 257 4.84
McCUNE Robert 6-0.0 245 4.51
51 BARNES Brandon 6-3.0 234 4.68


Yeah it doesn't look like we have any depth at all at DB or LB
:rolleyes:

I don't even know how to respond to Czaban and Bram. I always liked Bram because he seemed very informative and intelligent, but we all know how most of us feel about Czaban so I won't repeat it.

[BurgundyNGold]

Honestly, Czaban is a no talent @ssclown, and I wouldn't care for 1 second if he died. It is one thing to rip the team, but he rips the team (including Gibbs) constantly and hides behind the "oh but I'm a fan" shield. He is a coward that basis his opinion on no or skewed facts. He is on my list of top 5 most hated media personalities.
LMAO! This is the best flame that I've read in weeks and it couldn't have happened to a more deserviing individual.

[BurgundyNGold]

Yeah it doesn't look like we have any depth at all at DB or LB
:rolleyes:

I don't even know how to respond to Czaban and Bram. I always liked Bram because he seemed very informative and intelligent, but we all know how most of us feel about Czaban so I won't repeat it.
I knew Bram had a bit of an ego when he started signing off from his Redskins reports like he does, saying his name in that narcissistic manner. MHBIH.

[skins74]

Honestly, Czaban is a no talent @ssclown, and I wouldn't care for 1 second if he died. It is one thing to rip the team, but he rips the team (including Gibbs) constantly and hides behind the "oh but I'm a fan" shield. He is a coward that basis his opinion on no or skewed facts. He is on my list of top 5 most hated media personalities.


I will make sure I don't get on your list. Seems like your just a step away from disposing Czaban. I live in Dallas and most of the sportsradio guys kiss cowgirl arse.

[NamVet4]

I agree with dj! MLB is a concern... Every year the offenses get faster, quicker, and more intricate. We need a solid MLB who can quickly learn the opponents scheme and be ready to make the change in the last 5 - 10 seconds!
Let's really hope that somebody steps up!
;)

[smoak]

I will make sure I don't get on your list. Seems like your just a step away from disposing Czaban. I live in Dallas and most of the sportsradio guys kiss cowgirl arse.

No, I just don't listen to him any more. It just steams me how people rip the Redskins for past sins or based on inaccurate facts... But when the phony piece of filth claims to be a member of our fanbase, it infruiates me. I just don't get it. And the funny thing is that the people on this very bopard arte critical every day and I don't disagree or argue against most of it.

That jerk spews filth and people start to buy into it. Makes me ill.

[BurgundyNGold]

I will make sure I don't get on your list. Seems like your just a step away from disposing Czaban. I live in Dallas and most of the sportsradio guys kiss cowgirl arse.
Perhaps you'd like to add a Redskin basher to your lineup? We have a couple over at WTEM.

[MoeRedskins]

Why is everybody letting a sports radio guy get under your skin. Czaban has no media or journalist credentals, he just says things to get a reaction (like all radio guys). Also, as much as I hate to say it, it seems that a lot of redskins nation is down about this upcoming year(of course nobody on this message board is). So let them, but when they tell you that the Skins will be bad, say they said the same thing about San Diego last year (no, we will not be at a level close to SD 2004, but we will be much more competitve this year). I know, regardless of record, depth at MLB or in the secondary, or anything else, that I will be watching this team every sunday, telling everybody that they are going to win the super bowl this year until we statistacally can't, and cheering, regardless of what a "fan" the likes of Czaban says.

[suppitty]

Sorry guys, I agree with Czaban. I've been trying to look at this team without bias this season, and when you compare that defense with most other NFL defenses, we don't stack up well. We lost Fred Smoot, and replaced ohim with an unproven rookie. That is a minus. We have Sean Springs who was fantastic last year, but it is very likely that he will get hurt like every other year in his career other than last year, and then we will have Walt Harris and a rookie starting at corner. Taylor is good at fs, and our strong safety's are good enough, but the corner depth is terrible.

At MLB I simply cannot see Lemar Marshall succeeding. He was 225 pounds last year, and that is simply too small for an inside linebacker in the NFL. He was solid at olb last year. Marcus Washington is great at olb, and Warrick Holdman should be good at the other olb position. I don't expect to see Lavar play until the second half of the season, and that may help us. I think he has lost his fire, and doesn't want to be here anymore. He has come nowhere close to where he could be as a player. McCune is a rookie and although he is aged like a veteran, he is still raw and was a grown man playing college players last year.

On the D-line our DT's should be pretty good with Griffin, Noble and big Joe Somoa, but our DE's will still be a weak spot. Phillip Daniels will be lucky to make it out of preseason without an abdominal strain. Renaldo Wynn is a nice DE, but doesn't provide much in pass rush. Those are the only 2 proven NFL players at DE, and both have proven that they are better suited as a 2nd or 3rd DE. Other than those two, you have to count on guys like Ron Warner, Demetric Evens, and Chris Clemons to play as well as they did last year.

I'm confident that GW won't let our defense become a weak point, but I think we could be looking at 10-15 rather than a top 5 defense.

[BurgundyNGold]

Sorry guys, I agree with Czaban. I've been trying to look at this team without bias this season, and when you compare that defense with most other NFL defenses, we don't stack up well. We lost Fred Smoot, and replaced ohim with an unproven rookie. That is a minus. We have Sean Springs who was fantastic last year, but it is very likely that he will get hurt like every other year in his career other than last year, and then we will have Walt Harris and a rookie starting at corner. Taylor is good at fs, and our strong safety's are good enough, but the corner depth is terrible.

At MLB I simply cannot see Lemar Marshall succeeding. He was 225 pounds last year, and that is simply too small for an inside linebacker in the NFL. He was solid at olb last year. Marcus Washington is great at olb, and Warrick Holdman should be good at the other olb position. I don't expect to see Lavar play until the second half of the season, and that may help us. I think he has lost his fire, and doesn't want to be here anymore. He has come nowhere close to where he could be as a player. McCune is a rookie and although he is aged like a veteran, he is still raw and was a grown man playing college players last year.

On the D-line our DT's should be pretty good with Griffin, Noble and big Joe Somoa, but our DE's will still be a weak spot. Phillip Daniels will be lucky to make it out of preseason without an abdominal strain. Renaldo Wynn is a nice DE, but doesn't provide much in pass rush. Those are the only 2 proven NFL players at DE, and both have proven that they are better suited as a 2nd or 3rd DE. Other than those two, you have to count on guys like Ron Warner, Demetric Evens, and Chris Clemons to play as well as they did last year.

I'm confident that GW won't let our defense become a weak point, but I think we could be looking at 10-15 rather than a top 5 defense.
Czaban is a blowhard idiot who clearly is struggling to find things to talk about for 3 hours a day. Well, that's not exactly true; I'm pretty sure that WTEM is up to 40 minutes of commercials per hour these days, so it's really only an hour of actual on air time.

BTW, weren't you big time in the tank for Smoot or am I thinking of somebody else? If so, then you just have to let that go. Smoot has 60% talk and 40% walk and never acheived #1 CB status. Also, depth at every position for every team sucks. Welcome to NFL 2005.

I agree with your assessment of the MLB corps, except that I think that Marshall will end up at OLB amd Holdman will play MLB. I also don't think LaVar doesn't play until November, but I guess you're taking the "better safe than sorry" approach, which is understandable. I agree with you assessment of the DL, as we are weak at DE, IMO.

I think that you and Czaban are missing the big picture here. GW does not need a team full of pro bowlers for his D system to work. Last year was evidence of that. What you and that verbal poo factory Czaban are missing is that this is going the be the second year in this system. Last year at this time, everyone was still learning the basics of GW's system. What happened last year? #1 in the NFC and #3 in the league. I think that at least translates into a top 10 D this year, which is plenty good enough to go to and win in the playoffs.

If know-little Czaban wants to spout off any more, he should direct his fecal fountain towards the other side of the ball.

[BurgundyNGold]

Why is everybody letting a sports radio guy get under your skin. Czaban has no media or journalist credentals, he just says things to get a reaction (like all radio guys). Also, as much as I hate to say it, it seems that a lot of redskins nation is down about this upcoming year(of course nobody on this message board is). So let them, but when they tell you that the Skins will be bad, say they said the same thing about San Diego last year (no, we will not be at a level close to SD 2004, but we will be much more competitve this year). I know, regardless of record, depth at MLB or in the secondary, or anything else, that I will be watching this team every sunday, telling everybody that they are going to win the super bowl this year until we statistacally can't, and cheering, regardless of what a "fan" the likes of Czaban says.
I don't think that too many people up here let that fool Czaban get under their skin. He's a breezy, wannabe shock jock who thinks a split end is something that he used to have on his head back when he had hair. Many of us don't even listen to WTEM any more anyway because of @ssclowns like him.

That being said, I think that "fans" like Czaban are pretty unsophisticated fans. It's the old "glass if half empty, glass if half full" scenario. This guy is definitely a half empty kind of guy. I personally know a lot of fans who are down on the team this year. I attribute that to them being "unsophisticated" fans as opposed to "sophisticated" fans.

What's the difference? Here are a few from my perspective:


The unsophisticated fan sees all of our FA "losses" as certain doom. The sophisticated fan sees that we have either cut the cancers out of the team or are better off without players who put themselves above the team for marginal amounts of money.
The unsophisticated fan is downtrodden about our lack of activity in free agency. The sophisticated fan realizes that this emotion is just the effects of free spending withdrawal. Since we've been so busy winning the Superbowl in February for so many years, when we didn't do it this year, it robbed the unsophisticated fans of their annual fix of a false high. The sophisticated fan realizes that by only scoring 7 more points per game in 2004, we would've been 12-4 so we didn't need to go out and blindly spend money when we didn't need to.
The unsophisticated fan complains about the FA signings we did make or our lack of cap space. The sophisticated fan sees that we targeted specific, need players and didn't have the desire to make too much of an effort for the Courteney Browns that were available. Also, the spohisticated fan sees that taking Coles' cap hit this year really clears us in 2006 when the cap would've been very difficult to manage otherwise.
Finally, the unsophisticated fan listens to an believes idiots like Czaban, while the sophisticated fans consort with other sophisticated fans on hR about what's really going on. ;)

[lrking75]

I dont blame him for bashing the moves or the team. I love my team, but for the past 12 years we go in with high hopes only to be disappointed. It's ok to be hard on them until they prove they have there act together.. cant wait for the season. I have high hopes, but I feel negative about the draft still.

[BurgundyNGold]

I dont blame him for bashing the moves or the team. I love my team, but for the past 12 years we go in with high hopes only to be disappointed. It's ok to be hard on them until they prove they have there act together.. cant wait for the season. I have high hopes, but I feel negative about the draft still.
I'm not counting on this draft to do anything for us. IMO, if a team is counting on their draft to help them get substantially better that year then that team didn't have any real hopes of doing anything much anyway.

I think our biggest positive going into this year is the fact that this is the second year back for Gibbs & Co. The team actually gets the continuity of the same coaching staff on both sides of the ball for two straight years. That in and of itself has to be worth at least +2 games, IMO.

[bantu]

I don't think that too many people up here let that fool Czaban get under their skin. He's a breezy, wannabe shock jock who thinks a split end is something that he used to have on his head back when he had hair. Many of us don't even listen to WTEM any more anyway because of @ssclowns like him.

That being said, I think that "fans" like Czaban are pretty unsophisticated fans. It's the old "glass if half empty, glass if half full" scenario. This guy is definitely a half empty kind of guy. I personally know a lot of fans who are down on the team this year. I attribute that to them being "unsophisticated" fans as opposed to "sophisticated" fans.

What's the difference? Here are a few from my perspective:


The unsophisticated fan sees all of our FA "losses" as certain doom. The sophisticated fan sees that we have either cut the cancers out of the team or are better off without players who put themselves above the team for marginal amounts of money.
The unsophisticated fan is downtrodden about our lack of activity in free agency. The sophisticated fan realizes that this emotion is just the effects of free spending withdrawal. Since we've been so busy winning the Superbowl in February for so many years, when we didn't do it this year, it robbed the unsophisticated fans of their annual fix of a false high. The sophisticated fan realizes that by only scoring 7 more points per game in 2004, we would've been 12-4 so we didn't need to go out and blindly spend money when we didn't need to.
The unsophisticated fan complains about the FA signings we did make or our lack of cap space. The sophisticated fan sees that we targeted specific, need players and didn't have the desire to make too much of an effort for the Courteney Browns that were available. Also, the spohisticated fan sees that taking Coles' cap hit this year really clears us in 2006 when the cap would've been very difficult to manage otherwise.
Finally, the unsophisticated fan listens to an believes idiots like Czaban, while the sophisticated fans consort with other sophisticated fans on hR about what's really going on. ;)



You can sit there and say all this crap about being "sophisticated" or "unsophisticated", but you aren't exactly looking at it from an unbiased point of view.

I'm sorry, but our offseason has been subpar at best. Let me remind you how:

1) Letting Cole's leave was not a good move...Anytime you absorb a cap hit like the one we are taking for him this year its a bad thing. How you can support this decision just because it saves us room in 2006 is just asinine. We could have played hardball like a "real" football organization does, like the Eagles, and treated Cole's just like T.O. Instead we succumb to Cole's whining and we trade him for a lesser player and a HUGE cap hit. This was by far our stupidest move, because of our cap situation now.

2) Since our cap was helped so much by our FO and Cole's, we didn't have enough to spend a few extra bucks on proven veterans like Smoot and Pierce. Now I know these guys could be replaceable, but wouldn't it be nice going in to camp knowing that these positions were locked up with good players? I mean you use the word "cancer" to describe some of the people we let go; Is that how you would describe Pierce or Smoot?

3) Lastly, I am the biggest Redskins fan in the world and will fight anyone who questions my loyalty; however, I am not blind either. I am sick of everyone on this site getting so worked up when someone says something negative about our team. Then claim that theses guys know nothing and that they don't know the facts, blah, blah, blah. I'm sorry, I listened to the show yesterday and I found most of their concerns to be quite validated. We do have unproven players and CB, so that is a definite concern when you factor in depth. Our MLB situation is up in the air so why do us fans question that?

Come on guys...lets take our Burgandy and Gold sunglasses off and be realistic. Our team was, especially on offense, a weak squad. Talent-wise we did not upgrade, in fact, some could argue we downgraded. But hey, it is the preseason and every team is 0-0 so there is most definitely reason to be optimistic, but lets not be delusional either. Lets just keep our mouths shut for now and let these so-called experts bash us in the media. I just hope we will have the last laugh.

[colkurtz]

Czaban sounds like a jerk; but anyone who has supported the Redskins in the media over the last 12 years has been burned bad. So it's easier and safer just to bad-mouth the team with the usual stock comments.

Czaban's comments about the defense miss a critical point. Gregg Williams ALWAYS has a great defense. He can turn a hot dog into caviar. GW has had a #2 defense in 2003 and a #3 defense in 2004. Both teams had hurt players and bunches of "no-names". With the return of Arrington, Bowen, Daniels and some new promising draft picks this defense will not miss a beat and will be back in the Top 5 defenses. Take that to the bank.

I'm optimistic about this team - not because of big changes, but because of all the small ones that this radio personality can't see -------because he spends all his time looking in the mirror.

[colkurtz]

You can sit there and say all this crap about being "sophisticated" or "unsophisticated", but you aren't exactly looking at it from an unbiased point of view.

I'm sorry, but our offseason has been subpar at best. Let me remind you how:

1) Letting Cole's leave was not a good move...Anytime you absorb a cap hit like the one we are taking for him this year its a bad thing. How you can support this decision just because it saves us room in 2006 is just asinine. We could have played hardball like a "real" football organization does, like the Eagles, and treated Cole's just like T.O. Instead we succumb to Cole's whining and we trade him for a lesser player and a HUGE cap hit. This was by far our stupidest move, because of our cap situation now.

2) Since our cap was helped so much by our FO and Cole's, we didn't have enough to spend a few extra bucks on proven veterans like Smoot and Pierce. Now I know these guys could be replaceable, but wouldn't it be nice going in to camp knowing that these positions were locked up with good players? I mean you use the word "cancer" to describe some of the people we let go; Is that how you would describe Pierce or Smoot?

3) Lastly, I am the biggest Redskins fan in the world and will fight anyone who questions my loyalty; however, I am not blind either. I am sick of everyone on this site getting so worked up when someone says something negative about our team. Then claim that theses guys know nothing and that they don't know the facts, blah, blah, blah. I'm sorry, I listened to the show yesterday and I found most of their concerns to be quite validated. We do have unproven players and CB, so that is a definite concern when you factor in depth. Our MLB situation is up in the air so why do us fans question that?

Come on guys...lets take our Burgandy and Gold sunglasses off and be realistic. Our team was, especially on offense, a weak squad. Talent-wise we did not upgrade, in fact, some could argue we downgraded. But hey, it is the preseason and every team is 0-0 so there is most definitely reason to be optimistic, but lets not be delusional either. Lets just keep our mouths shut for now and let these so-called experts bash us in the media. I just hope we will have the last laugh.

1. I liked Coles. But he was hurt and only playing a 90%; additionally, he was a lockerroom cancer in the WR group. Finally, the guy did not want to play here anymore! . So you want us to keep him????????? Our WR corps was weak and dropped way too many passes. So the coaches made some wholesale changes and got new blood. I think you'll see some big improvements from these guys if Ramsey can get the ball to them.

2. The team made excellent offers to Smoot and Pierce. They went for a slightly higher bidders. The lesson from these last years is that you can't break the bank on players - that's the philosophy of NE and Philly. Those teams dump players who ask for too much money, all the time. The Redskins did the same thing this season [and the media calls ] our FO a bunch of morons. When the defense is top-rated again this season - everyone will be saying Smoot/Pierce who? Same way we said Champ who (?) last year.

If our offense gets better we will have a much improved record. It's not about getting a single magic player, but about raising the bar everywhere. Not wearing B & G glasses too much - but this team will be much better than last season.

[smoak]

You can sit there and say all this crap about being "sophisticated" or "unsophisticated", but you aren't exactly looking at it from an unbiased point of view.

I'm sorry, but our offseason has been subpar at best. Let me remind you how:

1) Letting Cole's leave was not a good move...Anytime you absorb a cap hit like the one we are taking for him this year its a bad thing. How you can support this decision just because it saves us room in 2006 is just asinine. We could have played hardball like a "real" football organization does, like the Eagles, and treated Cole's just like T.O. Instead we succumb to Cole's whining and we trade him for a lesser player and a HUGE cap hit. This was by far our stupidest move, because of our cap situation now.

That is your opinion. Others would disagree. Coles was by other players' accounts bringing down morale, and I would have traded him for a bucket of golf balls (and I don't golf). Winning is more an attitude and less about the players on the team. We can't have player(s) killing what the coaches are trying to accomplish (IMO).



2) Since our cap was helped so much by our FO and Cole's, we didn't have enough to spend a few extra bucks on proven veterans like Smoot and Pierce. Now I know these guys could be replaceable, but wouldn't it be nice going in to camp knowing that these positions were locked up with good players? I mean you use the word "cancer" to describe some of the people we let go; Is that how you would describe Pierce or Smoot?

We offered Smoot and Pierce X and they took Y from another team. For once, I am glad we didn't overpay. Again this is an opininated argument and I think both viewpoints are fair. I do think Smoot is overrated and Pierce is underrated by Skins fans. I am really going to miss Pierce personally.


3) Lastly, I am the biggest Redskins fan in the world and will fight anyone who questions my loyalty; however, I am not blind either. I am sick of everyone on this site getting so worked up when someone says something negative about our team. Then claim that theses guys know nothing and that they don't know the facts, blah, blah, blah. I'm sorry, I listened to the show yesterday and I found most of their concerns to be quite validated. We do have unproven players and CB, so that is a definite concern when you factor in depth. Our MLB situation is up in the air so why do us fans question that?

Concerns that are backed by thought provoking arguments and facts are completely valid. I have no problem if anyone has a concern with any position going into camp. Just provide an explanation as to why ans we can all agree or disagree and move on. My problem (and I don't listen to Czaban so this is in general) is when people rip Synder/Skins without fact or turn a questionable move into a personal attack. I take issue with that BIG TIME. But then to turn around and compound that by hiding like a 5 year old girl behing the "oh but keep in mind I am a fan" BS kills me. Agree or disagree with what he has to say, I'd like to take his head off for being such an arrogant rude piece of trash... but I promised my therapist I'd just take a deep breath and say goosfraba.


Come on guys...lets take our Burgandy and Gold sunglasses off and be realistic. Our team was, especially on offense, a weak squad. Talent-wise we did not upgrade, in fact, some could argue we downgraded. But hey, it is the preseason and every team is 0-0 so there is most definitely reason to be optimistic, but lets not be delusional either. Lets just keep our mouths shut for now and let these so-called experts bash us in the media. I just hope we will have the last laugh.

Why should we let "so called experts" bash the team we love? They know less that any of the rest of us... If I didn't have a full time job, I'd deluge the advertisers with letters boycotting their products until they pulled their ads. Maybe one day I can be a cantakerous old coot and do just that... I agree that some have burgundy and gold glasses on, but I don't see an issue with hating media types that have been bashing us since Snyder got the team. I'm sick of it. All I ask is that the media give a fair honest evaluation rather than constantly ripping us up and down.

But that is me...

[smoak]

LMAO! This is the best flame that I've read in weeks and it couldn't have happened to a more deserviing individual.

You are too kind, and I must give the credit to Michael Bolton.

I just despise the guy as a radio personality and probably never should have ventured into the thread...

I also think he says some borderline racially insensitive/inappropriate remarks on his morning show (back when I did listen). He comes across as having a very smug "but there is a black guy on the show so I can say that" attitude which is similar to his "but I am a Skins fan so I can say that" attitude.

[colkurtz]

[QUOTE=smoakme]You are too kind, and I must give the credit to Michael Bolton.

QUOTE]

Is that the "real" Micheal Bolton? :lol1:

[BurgundyNGold]

Stop listening to the Czabanites and take the gun out of your mouth.
You can sit there and say all this crap about being "sophisticated" or "unsophisticated", but you aren't exactly looking at it from an unbiased point of view.
The only point of view that I can espouse is that which I think that I would've done in the same boat.

I'm sorry, but our offseason has been subpar at best. Let me remind you how:

1) Letting Cole's leave was not a good move...Anytime you absorb a cap hit like the one we are taking for him this year its a bad thing. How you can support this decision just because it saves us room in 2006 is just asinine. We could have played hardball like a "real" football organization does, like the Eagles, and treated Cole's just like T.O. Instead we succumb to Cole's whining and we trade him for a lesser player and a HUGE cap hit. This was by far our stupidest move, because of our cap situation now.
You have given no reason why dealing Coles was a bad move aside from the fact that you obviously don't agree with it. Our FO did the best they could in a bad situation. I would've much rather had a 1st rounder instead of Moss, but we got what we could. I would certainly prefer to have a healthy, team oriented Moss than a gimp @ss, cancer like Coles.

As for the cap hit, what exactly has that kept us from doing? Signing an injury plagueded DE like Courteney Brown? It sure hasn't kept us from signing our draft picks -- they're all locked up as of today with room to spare. What exactly is your point about the cap aside from the fact that we didn't have the ability to go out and blow a lot of $$$ on players who likely would've been a mammoth disappointment anyway?

2) Since our cap was helped so much by our FO and Cole's, we didn't have enough to spend a few extra bucks on proven veterans like Smoot and Pierce. Now I know these guys could be replaceable, but wouldn't it be nice going in to camp knowing that these positions were locked up with good players? I mean you use the word "cancer" to describe some of the people we let go; Is that how you would describe Pierce or Smoot?
I don't think Smoot or Pierce were cancers. In fact, I wish both were still here. The truth is that both said that if the Redskins offer was close to the offer of another club, they would stay in DC. The Redskin offers were quite comparable in both cases, however the FO would not give either player more than the better player on their team for the same position (Springs and Washington). That would've been bad for morale.

The fact is that Smoot was not woth the $$$ he was paid. He is a #2 CB, period, yet Minny overpaid for him. Good for them and great for him. Pierce was a one year wonder and far from a proven commodity. Whining because the Gints chose to pay him that much is unfounded and foolish. Our offer was quite comparable, as I understand it, yet he chose to beat feet up to the Big Apple. I say good riddance to "me first" players who obviously care more about a very few dollars than being a Redskin. Since I'm a REDSKIN fan, I know what side I'm coming down on.

So, since both said that they would stay here is the Redskins provided comparable offers and both had the chance to stay here for comparable $$$, yet decided against doing so, I suppose that I would call them "liars".

3) Lastly, I am the biggest Redskins fan in the world and will fight anyone who questions my loyalty; however, I am not blind either. I am sick of everyone on this site getting so worked up when someone says something negative about our team. Then claim that theses guys know nothing and that they don't know the facts, blah, blah, blah. I'm sorry, I listened to the show yesterday and I found most of their concerns to be quite validated. We do have unproven players and CB, so that is a definite concern when you factor in depth. Our MLB situation is up in the air so why do us fans question that?
I've already answered this question, but I'll elaborate. The MLB was up in the air last year, and yet, amazingly, the SYSTEM is what GW plays, not the players. Even if we had to start the rookie McCune at MLB, I would be quite pleased with the D. My biggest concern in DE, but I'm not going out on a ledge over it like buffoon Zyban is.

Also, here is what I have to say about your depth perception (pun intended). I have a few names for you:

Joe Salve'a
Demetric Evans
Ron Warner
Andre Lott
Ryan Clark
Garnell Wild
Chris Clemons
Lemar Marshall
Antonio Pierce

These are just a few of the then "no names" who stepped onto the field in GW's system and contributed to the #1 D in the NFC and the #3 in the NFL.

Here are a few more:

LaVar Arrington
Phillip Daniels
Matt Bowen

Those are 3 starters who we will get BACK this year who will add their skills to an already imposing defense. If you can't be excited about those two facts then you need to call a hotline.

Come on guys...lets take our Burgandy and Gold sunglasses off and be realistic. Our team was, especially on offense, a weak squad. Talent-wise we did not upgrade, in fact, some could argue we downgraded. But hey, it is the preseason and every team is 0-0 so there is most definitely reason to be optimistic, but lets not be delusional either. Lets just keep our mouths shut for now and let these so-called experts bash us in the media. I just hope we will have the last laugh.
I think that I have been very unbiased -- and in some cases unforgiving -- of the team. However, I'm not going to spout off negativity because of my personal attachment to some player(s) or to get ratings. Nor am I going to run around here like Chicken Little because I haven't bothered to acquiant myself with what has actually transpired this offseason, unlike some people. These are the unsophisticated fans that I eluded to. Sorry if that offends you, but if you agree with Zyban...

[Redblood]

All I have here in Norfolk Va, is a Fat, St. Louis lover, who completely downplays every move by the Redskins. Once per week, he brings in an out-of-work, former Sports page writer, who unfortunately, always agrees with him. I've stopped listening.

I will give him credit in one area. He is between 70-80% on pro-picks. In addition, his station carries my favorite College BB team games during the Winter.

When able to tune 980 in on clear days, it is a welcome change. Bram gives the updates, Czab downplays everything, but not in the same derogatory, and inflamatory way this local fat guy does! At least 980 has Redskins talk, whereas the local radio is more pro-cowroid, and pro-lambs!

That's why I stay in here, and other B&G sites, in order to get a better view through my Burgandy colored glasses.

Czab probably does what he's supposed to do. Bring in controversy! It causes the listeners to call!

When business takes me to DC, I keep 980 on in the car.

[bwparker]

My problem with Czabe is that he gets his facts wrong alot...ALOT(misquotes, misrepresentations, misinterpretations), and he ALWAYS ONLY represents the negative point of view, PLUS there is noone on his show that pulls for the other side. He also tends to interrupt callers who disagree with him just to belittle them. I didn't hear the broadcast in question, so I can't speak to that...but in general, his show just sounds like a bunch of crochity old jaded bitter losers who just want b*tch about something. He has every right to do it, but I can't understand why anyone listens, or why the station keeps him on. IMO, it has no entertainment value, it exposes no new ideas and it just depresses and aggrivates me. So I avoid it. Smoak I have to agree with you that Czabe is one of my top 2 or 3 hated media personalities, I don't want him dead, but I'd have no problem never hearing his voice again.

[bwparker]

bantu, you're right. There are many here who wear B&G sunglasses. And because this is a fan site, they are the majority, so those who are less homeristic feel the brunt of their aggression. I tend agree with the homers on most issues, but I think its because I am an optimist, not a homer. I hope for the best, prepare for the worst and expect something in between. I find this keeps me happy and for the most part, fairly accurate.

But everyone is entitled to their opinion. Everybody has a view that makes them most comfortable with the team. Wether its thinking the worst to avoid disappointment, or hoping for the best so you can keep your chin up. The problem arises when these two sides meet, there aren't facts to argue about, because we are talking about prospects for the future(predictions, if you will) and that is always RIFE with subjectivity.

Each side has chosen their point of view because it makes them comfortable, conversely the opposing point of view makes them uncomfortable and they tend to not want to face it. And they meet that opposing point of view with little patience, they try to attack it. But attacking a prediction is useless because of fully saturated it is with the predicters opinion, so they turn to attacking the predicter. And then things get messy. For an example of this just look at my previous post about Czabe. Thats why I try, however unsuccessfully, to keep my opinions about the future to myself. But alas the urge to share is too strong, I want others to agree with me so that I can feel comfortable with my ludicrous optimism. Thats why I love this site :D

[BandWagon]

You can sit there and say all this crap about being "sophisticated" or "unsophisticated", but you aren't exactly looking at it from an unbiased point of view.
Wow

1) Letting Cole's leave was not a good move...Anytime you absorb a cap hit like the one we are taking for him this year its a bad thing. How you can support this decision just because it saves us room in 2006 is just asinine. We could have played hardball like a "real" football organization does, like the Eagles, and treated Cole's just like T.O. Instead we succumb to Cole's whining and we trade him for a lesser player and a HUGE cap hit. This was by far our stupidest move, because of our cap situation now.

Assinine? OK, there are probably a bunch of reason NOT to handle it the way Philly is handling TO...but for one, do you want that kind of crap in your locker room? Not me, jettison the guy, get a player in return, and erase the cap hit for next year. I'm not sure on a bum toe, he is any better than Moss. That may be proven wrong, but right now the move seems logical to me. If you think you can field a productive team doing so, extract the cancer and move on....

2) Since our cap was helped so much by our FO and Cole's, we didn't have enough to spend a few extra bucks on proven veterans like Smoot and Pierce. Now I know these guys could be replaceable, but wouldn't it be nice going in to camp knowing that these positions were locked up with good players? I mean you use the word "cancer" to describe some of the people we let go; Is that how you would describe Pierce or Smoot?

For the FIRST time in many, many seasons, we've got a pay scale in place that is equitable. It's a two way street...you offer a guy a fair and equitable contract and if he leaves for $500,000 more so be it...you've stuck to your guns. Everyone seems to talk about playing hardball like Philly and New England and here's a perfect example of how we're sticking to our guns...and we're getting criticized? :banghead:

3) Lastly, I am the biggest Redskins fan in the world and will fight anyone who questions my loyalty; however, I am not blind either. I am sick of everyone on this site getting so worked up when someone says something negative about our team. Then claim that theses guys know nothing and that they don't know the facts, blah, blah, blah. I'm sorry, I listened to the show yesterday and I found most of their concerns to be quite validated. We do have unproven players and CB, so that is a definite concern when you factor in depth. Our MLB situation is up in the air so why do us fans question that?

Who's getting worked up...my point was I think we owe these guys a huge helping of crow if these season turns out well. I like even-handed reporting, not overtly negative commentary. I was dissappointed Bram got himself caught up in that, because ordinarily I like his reporting. The Ade Jimoh/T.O. comment was absurd.

Come on guys...lets take our Burgandy and Gold sunglasses off and be realistic. Our team was, especially on offense, a weak squad. Talent-wise we did not upgrade, in fact, some could argue we downgraded. But hey, it is the preseason and every team is 0-0 so there is most definitely reason to be optimistic, but lets not be delusional either. Lets just keep our mouths shut for now and let these so-called experts bash us in the media. I just hope we will have the last laugh.

Me too, crow anyone?

[dj_stouty]

If you guys hate Czaban so much, then why do you listen?

And if you don't listen, then how do you know he only spews negativity?

Come on...this is TALK RADIO, folks.

[BurgundyNGold]

If you guys hate Czaban so much, then why do you listen?
I don't.

And if you don't listen, then how do you know he only spews negativity?
I have.

Come on...this is TALK RADIO, folks.
I agree.

[Avg Joe]

I caught the show yesterday, and it's nothing new with Czabe. They were also hating on Lavar hard yesterday. Tom Laverro(or however it's spelled) was the one doing most of the hating, and Czabe was somewhat on Lavar's side. I suppose it's all about programing and formatting, they need a pro and con.

Bram, is starting to get on my nerves though. I'm starting to see he really doesn't know anything in particular about the team, just gives his own lil take on things. He stays calling himself reading between the lines of what a player said, when the player was very direct with what he said. He ws killing me with the way he described Portis' and Taylor's comments from yesterday. Really none of the local media know any real info outside of George Michael.

If you want a real knowledgable take, listen to Doc Walker.

[suppitty]

BTW, weren't you big time in the tank for Smoot or am I thinking of somebody else? If so, then you just have to let that go.
Yeah, that was me :D , but I realized shortly after that Pierce was a bigger loss. It was just the fact that we were creating another need. We were fine at corner, but not agreeing with Smoot meant that we had to go out and do something to aquire a corner. I know Smoot was a lot of talk, but Carlos Rogers is still a step down from him this year, especially if his injury problems persist. If we had resigned Smoot we would have next year's 1st rounder, and we would have had a 3rd rounder this year to grab a player who could play right away at a real position of need like defensive end.

[BurgundyNGold]

Yeah, that was me :D , but I realized shortly after that Pierce was a bigger loss. It was just the fact that we were creating another need. We were fine at corner, but not agreeing with Smoot meant that we had to go out and do something to aquire a corner. I know Smoot was a lot of talk, but Carlos Rogers is still a step down from him this year, especially if his injury problems persist. If we had resigned Smoot we would have next year's 1st rounder, and we would have had a 3rd rounder this year to grab a player who could play right away at a real position of need like defensive end.
Well, I certainly agree with your concern about a DE. That has been my favorite harping note during the offseason. As for Rogers and Campbell, I would not have traded for Campbell and I would've taken Mike Williams over [Rogers], so I too have a different line of thinking than our FO. However, I don't expect much from rookies and we have gotten better in a lot of places.

Zyban would have us all believe that Redskins Park is on fire. That just isn't so and he needs to act more responsibly. If he doesn't know better then he should shut up. If he does know better then he needs to cite some sources for his anguish.

[Joe-T]

That is interesting that he would choose the secondary and linebacker positions to mention a lack of depth, when even a minimal amount of research reveals impressive depth at those positions. of course, a few months ago, his statements might have been true, because i was worried about middle linebacker and safety also, but not anymore. It's actually a pretty impressive group now, and some tough decision will have to be made as far as cuts are concerned. look at this depth at these positions:

SKIN Right Corner HGT WGT Speed
21 HARRIS Walt 5-11.0 191 4.44
37 BROWN Rufus(tx) 5-9.2 187 4.38
23 JIMOH Ade 6-0.0 195 4.48
32 ROGERS Carlos - 6-0.3 196 4.44
__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Left Corner HGT WGT Speed
24 SPRINGS Shawn 5-11.0 188 4.43
HAWKINS Artell 5- 9.0 191 4.38
38 WILDS Garnell 5-11.0 194 4.50

__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Free Safety HGT WGT Speed
21 TAYLOR Sean 6-2.0 231 4.51
PRIOLEAU Pierson 5-9.0 191 4.49
STOUTMIRE 5-11 205
__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Strong Safety HGT WGT Speed
24 DIXON Tony 6-0.0 197 4.46
41 BOWEN Matt 6-1.0 200 4.47
25 CLARK Ryan 5-10.5 194 4.48

__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Weak Backer HGT WGT Speed
56 ARRINGTON Lavar 6-2.2 257 4.49
HOLDMAN Warrick 6-1.0 235 4.74
ALLEN Brian 5-11.7 238 4.61
NEWBERRY Jared 6-1.1 234 4.75
__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Strong Backer HGT WGT Speed
53 WASHINGTON Marcus. 6-3.5 252 4.59
57 CLEMONS Chris 6-3.0 234 4.62
50 CAMPBELL Khary 6-1.0 247 4.76
TUIPALA Joe 6-0.4 244 4.78
__________________________________________________ ____________

SKIN Middle Backer HGT WGT Speed
98 MARSHALL Lemar 6-2.0 227 4.48
54 SMITH Clifton - 6-2.4 257 4.84
McCUNE Robert 6-0.0 245 4.51
51 BARNES Brandon 6-3.0 234 4.68


I think they were taliking about experience ,if we lose our(a) starters were in trouble .Our back ups aren't that good .Yes we do have bodys .

[redwolf1218]

I think they were taliking about experience ,if we lose our(a) starters were in trouble .Our back ups aren't that good .Yes we do have bodys .
that might be true that they meant experience. if so, they should not have said DB, where we have Dixon, Prioleau, Bowen and Stoutmire, all experienced, with a good infusion of youth in Clark and Taylor. At middle linebacker, Holdman and Marshall would be new to the position, but they have some starting experience.

Still, we had plenty of injuries last year and Williams still managed to guide the D to the #3 ranking.

[BandWagon]

If you guys hate Czaban so much, then why do you listen?

And if you don't listen, then how do you know he only spews negativity?

Come on...this is TALK RADIO, folks.

Because, pathetically, it's the only game in town and being the eternal optimist I hold onto to a flickering hope that someone will host a show that's a good as the one Ken Beatrice had for 25 years....unfortunately, I don't think that'll ever happen...

[smoak]

If you guys hate Czaban so much, then why do you listen?

And if you don't listen, then how do you know he only spews negativity?

Come on...this is TALK RADIO, folks.

I'll tune in for a couple minutes if the Y100 morning show guys (now on MMR) are on commercial. I always give people a chance to redeem themselves, but .... well, my feels on the bum are well known.

And I'd have no problem with a person saying that a couple DBs were banged up in camp and they are worried about the depth chart...

Walt Harris has a quad injury and athletic trainers decided to hold him out of practice. Artrell Hawkins has a mild sprained hamstring that could set him back a couple of days.

[bantu]

Concerns that are backed by thought provoking arguments and facts are completely valid. I have no problem if anyone has a concern with any position going into camp. Just provide an explanation as to why ans we can all agree or disagree and move on. My problem (and I don't listen to Czaban so this is in general) is when people rip Synder/Skins without fact or turn a questionable move into a personal attack. I take issue with that BIG TIME. But then to turn around and compound that by hiding like a 5 year old girl behing the "oh but keep in mind I am a fan" BS kills me. Agree or disagree with what he has to say, I'd like to take his head off for being such an arrogant rude piece of trash... but I promised my therapist I'd just take a deep breath and say goosfraba.


I hope you weren't refering to me with that comment. Nothing I say about the 'Skins is BS, as I am very loyal but also honest. I love our squad, no matter what roster/coach or whatever changes we made in the offseason. My problem is that we tend to go crazy if anyone even slightly bashes our ballclub. And to be honest they were not bashing us, really. They were just raising some concerns, legit ones I might add, to incite some feedback from area fans. I've always thought that Czaban was a douchebag, but hey, he's the jerk we have to deal with so lets just deal. Hopefully our Boyz will shut the media up with their play on the field.

P.S. Just because one can list off the names of MLB's on the roster and their 40 times does nothing to inspire confidence or answer the question as to who will play there.

[smoak]

I hope you weren't refering to me with that comment. Nothing I say about the 'Skins is BS, as I am very loyal but also honest. I love our squad, no matter what roster/coach or whatever changes we made in the offseason. My problem is that we tend to go crazy if anyone even slightly bashes our ballclub. And to be honest they were not bashing us, really. They were just raising some concerns, legit ones I might add, to incite some feedback from area fans. I've always thought that Czaban was a douchebag, but hey, he's the jerk we have to deal with so lets just deal. Hopefully our Boyz will shut the media up with their play on the field.

P.S. Just because one can list off the names of MLB's on the roster and their 40 times does nothing to inspire confidence or answer the question as to who will play there.

1) No, of course I wasn't referring to you. It is how I feel Czaban acts towards the Skins. Again I have no problem with anyone (fan or no) saying they have concerns, but I can never be quiet if I think a person is just taking cheap shots or putting down the team without facts (or bad facts).

2) I agree that it is a concern to see who will start at MLB and CB. Every team in the league has at least two positions where they expect to have a new starter, and I don't see it as a reason to rip the team.

3) I agree that I hope the team shuts everyone up with their play on the field. Lets raise a toast to that one if you're coming to the tailgate.

[bgforever]

I caught the very tailend of the Redskins segment today and Czabes tone was wicked. Even the usually more tempered Bram seemed to be really laying into the team...no depth at MLB, no depth in secondary, even saying if you lose anyone in the secondary you're going to end up having Ade Jimoh cover T.O. It seemed like more of the usual 'skins bashing, but I know the segment was much longer than the 5 or so minutes I caught. Did they have ANYTHING encouraging to say? And when we get this program turned around, we should send a big old letter off to them, telling them they were WRONG! Ok, I'm better now...

Maybe we should a throw a wreath in their studio or bring in an elelphant butt for them to kiss.

[smoak]

Is that the "real" Micheal Bolton? :lol1:

LOL!

Why don't you just go by Mike instead of Michael?

[dj_stouty]

LOL!

Why don't you just go by Mike instead of Michael?

"No way. Why should I change? He's the one who sucks."

One of my all-time favorite movies!

[smoak]

"No way. Why should I change? He's the one who sucks."

One of my all-time favorite movies!

It is a classic, no doubt!

Just saw Old School again last night...

"We're going streaking!"

[dj_stouty]

It is a classic, no doubt!

Just saw Old School again last night...

"We're going streaking!"

Frank: I told my wife I wouldn't drink tonight. Besides, I got a big day tomorrow. You guys have a great time.
College Student: A big day? Doing what?

Frank: Well, um, actually a pretty nice little Saturday, we're going to go to Home Depot. Yeah, buy some wallpaper, maybe get some flooring, stuff like that. Maybe Bed, Bath, & Beyond, I don't know, I don't know if we'll have enough time.

[BurgundyNGold]

Frank: I told my wife I wouldn't drink tonight. Besides, I got a big day tomorrow. You guys have a great time.
College Student: A big day? Doing what?

Frank: Well, um, actually a pretty nice little Saturday, we're going to go to Home Depot. Yeah, buy some wallpaper, maybe get some flooring, stuff like that. Maybe Bed, Bath, & Beyond, I don't know, I don't know if we'll have enough time.
I about died when he said that. Oh, and I love your sig too: "Here it is Mikey, check it out, His head's bleeding. Mikey check it out, his legs - little Wayne's legs are shaking all over the place."

[dj_stouty]

I about died when he said that.

I saw every married couple in the theater look at each other and laugh when he said that. WAY too true!

[BandWagon]

Now today I ACTUALLY heard sports reporting on the Sports Reporters...and it took Andy being sick and Czabe to be on vacation. So Scott Lynn took the "air chair" and even though he sounds exactly like Andy Polie (IMO) the show couldn't have been any different. With Tom Lavarro and Mike Wise they actually had a 20 minute talk about the B&G that was completely devoid of pointless speculation, inflammatory commentary and unwanted opinions. WTEM, congratulations! You will be receiving a letter from me expressing the same....

[Sappy1]

Sorry guys, I agree with Czaban. I've been trying to look at this team without bias this season, and when you compare that defense with most other NFL defenses, we don't stack up well. We lost Fred Smoot, and replaced ohim with an unproven rookie. That is a minus. We have Sean Springs who was fantastic last year, but it is very likely that he will get hurt like every other year in his career other than last year, and then we will have Walt Harris and a rookie starting at corner. Taylor is good at fs, and our strong safety's are good enough, but the corner depth is terrible.

At MLB I simply cannot see Lemar Marshall succeeding. He was 225 pounds last year, and that is simply too small for an inside linebacker in the NFL. He was solid at olb last year. Marcus Washington is great at olb, and Warrick Holdman should be good at the other olb position. I don't expect to see Lavar play until the second half of the season, and that may help us. I think he has lost his fire, and doesn't want to be here anymore. He has come nowhere close to where he could be as a player. McCune is a rookie and although he is aged like a veteran, he is still raw and was a grown man playing college players last year.

On the D-line our DT's should be pretty good with Griffin, Noble and big Joe Somoa, but our DE's will still be a weak spot. Phillip Daniels will be lucky to make it out of preseason without an abdominal strain. Renaldo Wynn is a nice DE, but doesn't provide much in pass rush. Those are the only 2 proven NFL players at DE, and both have proven that they are better suited as a 2nd or 3rd DE. Other than those two, you have to count on guys like Ron Warner, Demetric Evens, and Chris Clemons to play as well as they did last year.

I'm confident that GW won't let our defense become a weak point, but I think we could be looking at 10-15 rather than a top 5 defense.

Ahhh this guy is right. This board lives in some kind of fantasy land where no other team made
improvements in the offseason, but the skins are better because for once they were not the Summer
FA champions. On offense the Skins improve "because Joe said so" and the defense will remain top 3
in the NFL despite losing 2 "core" Redskins.

I understand Jansen is back and that will be a plus. I also understand Lavar is back, but does that
mean he makes his 3 highlight reel plays for the season or will he finally fit into a system and not
chase plays that aren't there?

I am one who believes the Skins defense was smoke and mirrors. Anytime a CB shares the team lead in
sacks an alarm needs to be sounded. Show me again I say. The Skins have one player (Griffin) on the
Dline who could start for another team. The other starters would be backups at best. Sean Taylor can be
a tremendous player, no doubting that. But a solid #2 CB(Smoot) will be replaced by a gimpy rookie or
a career journeyman and the defense won't miss a beat?

The Skins have the highest paid RB in the NFL, and yet the fans root for one of the 2 rookie FBs to
punch it in from the goalline(BTW how in the hell did the Skins not draft 1 DLineman in this draft?).
An average try-hard guy(Cooley) is touted on this board as a steal in the draft (when in fact you gave
up picks to move up to get him) and a beast. (For what's it worth, this superstar would not make the roster
of the team I root for...ie. the Falcons as he could not unseat Crumpler or the FB Griffith and he doesn't play
special teams).

Being a fan of a team that made the NFC Championship and then looking at the Falcons schedule I would
consider a tremendous season 10-6 and am hoping for a playoff return. Yet this board represents the team
with one of the worst offenses in the NFL and I see 12-4 and 11-5 predictions and playoff bound boast
everywhere.

I don't see it. Just because Joe is the "Lord of the Rings" and God on this site doesn't make
it reality. I seem to recall Dolphin fans spouting the same drivel when JJ became the coach. Talk and
IFs aren't worth jack. Show me.

[redwolf1218]

Ahhh this guy is right. This board lives in some kind of fantasy land where no other team made
improvements in the offseason, but the skins are better because for once they were not the Summer
FA champions. On offense the Skins improve "because Joe said so" and the defense will remain top 3
in the NFL despite losing 2 "core" Redskins.

UPGRADE.

I understand Jansen is back and that will be a plus. I also understand Lavar is back, but does that
mean he makes his 3 highlight reel plays for the season or will he finally fit into a system and not
chase plays that aren't there?

DOESNT MATTER, NUMBER 3 DEFENSE WITHOUT HIM.

I am one who believes the Skins defense was smoke and mirrors. Anytime a CB shares the team lead in
sacks an alarm needs to be sounded. Show me again I say. The Skins have one player (Griffin) on the
Dline who could start for another team. The other starters would be backups at best. Sean Taylor can be
a tremendous player, no doubting that. But a solid #2 CB(Smoot) will be replaced by a gimpy rookie or
a career journeyman and the defense won't miss a beat?

THE SKINS DEFENSE RANKED 3RD DESPITE HAVING ALMOST NO OFFENSE OR SPECIAL TEAMS TO HELP WITH FIELD POSITION.

The Skins have the highest paid RB in the NFL

NOT TRUE.

, and yet the fans root for one of the 2 rookie FBs to
punch it in from the goalline(BTW how in the hell did the Skins not draft 1 DLineman in this draft?).
An average try-hard guy(Cooley) is touted on this board as a steal in the draft (when in fact you gave
up picks to move up to get him) and a beast.

HE HAD BETTER STATS IN THIS, HIS ROOKIE YEAR, THAN CLINT DIDIER, WHO IS WIDELY CONSIDERED THE BEST HBACK GIBBS EVER HAD.

(For what's it worth, this superstar would not make the roster
of the team I root for...ie. the Falcons as he could not unseat Crumpler or the FB Griffith and he doesn't play
special teams).

Being a fan of a team that made the NFC Championship and then looking at the Falcons schedule I would
consider a tremendous season 10-6 and am hoping for a playoff return. Yet this board represents the team
with one of the worst offenses in the NFL and I see 12-4 and 11-5 predictions and playoff bound boast
everywhere.

THAT MAY BE BECAUSE ONLY 2 GAMES WERE LOST BY MORE THAN 7 POINTS.

I don't see it. Just because Joe is the "Lord of the Rings" and God on this site doesn't make
it reality.

VERMIEL, PARCELLS AND SCHOTTENHEIMER ARE DOING OKAY WITH THEIR COMEBACKS, AFTER INITIALLY STRUGGLING...I THINK GIBBS WILL IMPROVE SIMILARLY.

I seem to recall Dolphin fans spouting the same drivel when JJ became the coach. Talk and
IFs aren't worth jack. Show me.

[dj_stouty]

The Skins have the highest paid RB in the NFL

FYI: Since Portis' signing, LT and Deuce McAllister have both signed bigger contracts than Portis...

[CowboyKilla]

He needs to stick his head in a toilet and flush!
I'm glad I don't get to hear that fool, Is he a Redskin fan? or just the local schmuck head radio guy. Or both?

[BurgundyNGold]

He needs to stick his head in a toilet and flush!
I'm glad I don't get to hear that fool, Is he a Redskin fan? or just the local schmuck head radio guy. Or both?
He's just a local radio @ssclown, regardless what he claims about being a Redskin fan.

[redwolf1218]

FYI: Since Portis' signing, LT and Deuce McAllister have both signed bigger contracts than Portis...
i thought it was strange when he was signed and it was reported that he had signed the richest contract in history for a running back, when we had actually signed Stephen Davis to a [ridiculous] richer contract several years before that.

Portis has proven his value to me and i believe will continue to do so, not only with his running but also with his leadership, personality, work ethic and attitude. so far, i love the guy. in the years to come, as other contracts are signed like the ones you mentioned by Tomlinson and McAllister, Portis's deal wont look as inflated as it did at the beginning.

[Joe-T]

Ahhh this guy is right. This board lives in some kind of fantasy land where no other team made
improvements in the offseason, but the skins are better because for once they were not the Summer
FA champions. On offense the Skins improve "because Joe said so" and the defense will remain top 3
in the NFL despite losing 2 "core" Redskins.

I understand Jansen is back and that will be a plus. I also understand Lavar is back, but does that
mean he makes his 3 highlight reel plays for the season or will he finally fit into a system and not
chase plays that aren't there?

I am one who believes the Skins defense was smoke and mirrors. Anytime a CB shares the team lead in
sacks an alarm needs to be sounded. Show me again I say. The Skins have one player (Griffin) on the
Dline who could start for another team. The other starters would be backups at best. Sean Taylor can be
a tremendous player, no doubting that. But a solid #2 CB(Smoot) will be replaced by a gimpy rookie or
a career journeyman and the defense won't miss a beat?

The Skins have the highest paid RB in the NFL, and yet the fans root for one of the 2 rookie FBs to
punch it in from the goalline(BTW how in the hell did the Skins not draft 1 DLineman in this draft?).
An average try-hard guy(Cooley) is touted on this board as a steal in the draft (when in fact you gave
up picks to move up to get him) and a beast. (For what's it worth, this superstar would not make the roster
of the team I root for...ie. the Falcons as he could not unseat Crumpler or the FB Griffith and he doesn't play
special teams).

Being a fan of a team that made the NFC Championship and then looking at the Falcons schedule I would
consider a tremendous season 10-6 and am hoping for a playoff return. Yet this board represents the team
with one of the worst offenses in the NFL and I see 12-4 and 11-5 predictions and playoff bound boast
everywhere.

I don't see it. Just because Joe is the "Lord of the Rings" and God on this site doesn't make
it reality. I seem to recall Dolphin fans spouting the same drivel when JJ became the coach. Talk and
IFs aren't worth jack. Show me.

I tend to agree with your opinion ,with Nobel and Griffen hurt a rookie MLB and weak corners we're in trouble .

[dj_stouty]

in the years to come, as other contracts are signed like the ones you mentioned by Tomlinson and McAllister, Portis's deal wont look as inflated as it did at the beginning.

I totally agree. Contracts always look big during the year they are signed...but it doesn't take long for them to be dwarfed by the next great player at that position.

Guys like Edge and Alexander are one year away from big paydays. I guarantee you they will make more than Portis.

Lets only hope Portis doesn't want a bigger contract at that time. :banghead:

[akhhorus]

I tend to agree with your opinion ,with Nobel and Griffen hurt a rookie MLB and weak corners we're in trouble .

Springs was a "weak" CB? Rodgers is a "weak" cb? How about last year when they were starting guys who couldnt even start in CFB(Boschetti, Ryan Clark, Wilds), and yet still dominated?

[smoak]

I totally agree. Contracts always look big during the year they are signed...but it doesn't take long for them to be dwarfed by the next great player at that position.

Guys like Edge and Alexander are one year away from big paydays. I guarantee you they will make more than Portis.

Lets only hope Portis doesn't want a bigger contract at that time. :banghead:

Considering he ripped intoTO for his whining about a new deal, he'd look awfully hypocritical.... Also, he hasn't earned it.

[STaylor#21]

About the whole Pierce situation does this not seem like a future Jeremiah Trotter deal? Leaves the Eagles after making the pro bowl, realizes he only made the pro bowl due to the system he was in, comes back begging for less money to rejoin his old team??

Seems to me like we will be seeing Pierce back with the B & G in a year or two.

[redwolf1218]

About the whole Pierce situation does this not seem like a future Jeremiah Trotter deal? Leaves the Eagles after making the pro bowl, realizes he only made the pro bowl due to the system he was in, comes back begging for less money to rejoin his old team??

Seems to me like we will be seeing Pierce back with the B & G in a year or two.
the difference might be that it'll be too late for him...we wont need him anymore by then. Marshall, Holdman and McCune may all end up being better than Pierce in this system. Marshall is much faster, Holdman is much more experienced, and McCune is both bigger and faster. the only reason Pierce got the nod last year is because he was able to learn and run the new system faster than anyone else.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

About the whole Pierce situation does this not seem like a future Jeremiah Trotter deal? Leaves the Eagles after making the pro bowl, realizes he only made the pro bowl due to the system he was in, comes back begging for less money to rejoin his old team??

Seems to me like we will be seeing Pierce back with the B & G in a year or two.

Wow, that actually is a very good comparison, I wouldn't be surprised to see that happen.

[Meatsnack]

I'm sorry, but our offseason has been subpar at best. Let me remind you how:

1) Letting Cole's leave was not a good move...Anytime you absorb a cap hit like the one we are taking for him this year its a bad thing. How you can support this decision just because it saves us room in 2006 is just asinine. We could have played hardball like a "real" football organization does, like the Eagles, and treated Cole's just like T.O. Instead we succumb to Cole's whining and we trade him for a lesser player and a HUGE cap hit. This was by far our stupidest move, because of our cap situation now. If I accept your intial premise as true, then there is no counter argument. However, I do not agree with the premise that there is never a good reason to take a big cap hit to move a player. I also disagree that we traded Coles for whining. We traded him because we threw him 168 catchable balls and he caught barely half of them and he was a shadow of his former speed-burner self. Moss is better than the current Coles, period. This is a "Real " football organization, with a long and storied history. Joe Gibbs has plenty of intestinal fortitude to stand up to anyone, player or management. What reason do you have to suspect that this turned out in any way different from the way Gibbs planned it that you attribute the trade to lack of courage? Finally, what cap situation? We don't have one. We didn't have one when the Smoot/Peirce deals went down. Simply a non-issue.

2) Since our cap was helped so much by our FO and Cole's, we didn't have enough to spend a few extra bucks on proven veterans like Smoot and Pierce. Now I know these guys could be replaceable, but wouldn't it be nice going in to camp knowing that these positions were locked up with good players? I mean you use the word "cancer" to describe some of the people we let go; Is that how you would describe Pierce or Smoot?
Smoot and Pierce left for less than a 5% difference in contract value, making them liars when they said they would stay for comparable deals. Smoot's deal was more front loaded and Pierce got more bonus money than our offers. We chose not to match those offers like a "real" football organization that has a cap strategy and sticks to it. I don't see how you can have it both ways.
3) Lastly, I am the biggest Redskins fan in the world and will fight anyone who questions my loyalty; however, I am not blind either. I am sick of everyone on this site getting so worked up when someone says something negative about our team. Then claim that theses guys know nothing and that they don't know the facts, blah, blah, blah. I'm sorry, I listened to the show yesterday and I found most of their concerns to be quite validated. We do have unproven players and CB, so that is a definite concern when you factor in depth. Our MLB situation is up in the air so why do us fans question that? Nonsense. Our starters have several years as starters under their belts. Unproven? We have a young phenom and a proven second year player competing for part-time jobs at nickel and dime with Artrell Hawkins, a quality 7-year vet who has started his whole career. What team in the age of the cap wouldn't kill for a line-up like that? I haven't even mentioned the guys like Brown and Bethea who have the potential to make an impact. Again I say unto you, how does this constitute a depth problem by the standards of the cap-era NFL? Do you think we will wind up starting Santana Moss at corner likethe Patriots last year? As to MLB, you mean more or less up in the air than last year when Pierce was a special teamer and we thought Barrow was our guy going into the season? What exactly bothers you about this? We have seen these rabbits come out of GW's hat before.

Come on guys...lets take our Burgandy and Gold sunglasses off and be realistic. Our team was, especially on offense, a weak squad. Talent-wise we did not upgrade, in fact, some could argue we downgraded. But hey, it is the preseason and every team is 0-0 so there is most definitely reason to be optimistic, but lets not be delusional either. Lets just keep our mouths shut for now and let these so-called experts bash us in the media. I just hope we will have the last laugh. Again, I disagree totally. The #3 defense in the NFL was a weak squad? The passing offense was indeed woeful but the run game was amazing considering how defenses keyed on it when it became apparent that Brunnel couldn't throw anymore. The special teams were mediocre but hardly weak. Tom Tupa was, in my mind, our best single player last year. As to the B&G colored glasses - they can pry them out of my cold, dead hands. :) Hail!

[Joe-T]

About the whole Pierce situation does this not seem like a future Jeremiah Trotter deal? Leaves the Eagles after making the pro bowl, realizes he only made the pro bowl due to the system he was in, comes back begging for less money to rejoin his old team??

Seems to me like we will be seeing Pierce back with the B & G in a year or two.


LOL...you're kidding right ?

[Joe-T]

Wow, that actually is a very good comparison, I wouldn't be surprised to see that happen.


How do you figure ? What has happen for him to leave NY .And your'e forgetting Trotter left us to go somewhere else not come back here .

[flave1969]

How do you figure ? What has happen for him to leave NY .And your'e forgetting Trotter left us to go somewhere else not come back here .

Did you miss the point the guy made.

His point was that as Pierce might be a product of the Redskin system he may struggle in NY as it is a different system. If he struggles then he goes. Quite logical. Trotter is his example.


Trotter was good for the Eagles, sucked for us, went back to the Eagles, played well again.

He feels that Pierce may be the same.

Decent here, suck there, come back again here and flourish in a system he was successful in before.


Not sure I agree but it is not a stretch to imagine.

[akhhorus]

How do you figure ? What has happen for him to leave NY .And your'e forgetting Trotter left us to go somewhere else not come back here .

Trotter left here to go back to his original team, if Pierce does leave NYG for the Skins that would be identical to what Trotter did. JDS isn't forgetting anything, you're just missing the obvious analogy.

[akhhorus]

LOL...you're kidding right ?

Pierce didn't really read his deal with the G-Men, they can cut him in a couple years and not be responsible for the majority of the signing bonus. If he's a bust, he'll be gone quickly from NY. Apparently, they are concerned that Pierce was a one year wonder also.

[ihatedallas]

When people on this board predict good records for there teams, why do you care? Its there opinions and everyones entitled to there own optimism wether you think we are going to have a good year or not, if you dont like how people are being TOO optimistic..just keep it to yourself, thats like saying "Damnit, dont be hopeful! God, dont you people on the board know were going to suck again, jeez!"... :rolleyes:

[Joe-T]

Did you miss the point the guy made.

His point was that as Pierce might be a product of the Redskin system he may struggle in NY as it is a different system. If he struggles then he goes. Quite logical. Trotter is his example.


Trotter was good for the Eagles, sucked for us, went back to the Eagles, played well again.

He feels that Pierce may be the same.

Decent here, suck there, come back again here and flourish in a system he was successful in before.


Not sure I agree but it is not a stretch to imagine.


I got the piont ,I want to know why it was made? Why is it everyone refuse's to think that maybe Pierce made the system work ,my point is we need to wait and see what happens .

[akhhorus]

I got the piont ,I want to know why it was made? Why is it everyone refuse's to think that maybe Pierce made the system work ,my point is we need to wait and see what happens .

yes we all do, BUT the fact that Pierce didn't show any real hint of talent until:
1-Gregg Williams came to town
2-when he was playing for a UFA contract
makes the burden on him to show that he's not a one year wonder or a system player.