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chrisbcbu
08-19-2005, 10:21 PM
Ramsey is still inconsistant. 1 great play followed by 1 awful play. He gets ur hopes up then ripes out ur heart on the next. Missed some open receivers and was able to thread the needle on some other throws. It looks like he may have something with Patten.

Patten can get some seperation against the 2nd CB. He is going to cause some mismatches against the defenses! Im looking forward to see this guy in the regular season.

Moss is fast as can be, and able to break some tackles. i didnt think he would be able to but that guy can fly.

The Starting OL is going to be a menace. They have no weak spot on teh 1st string. They will be a force to be reckoned with. FINALLY!!

Brunell has shown his skills against the 2nd and 3rd string defenses and he is lighting them up. His stats arent that good because his receivers had 4-5 easy drops. He has the touch and the arm strength to get it done. i would really like to see him against some first stringers.

The 1st string defense is going to be a force. Marcus Washington is going to have a monster year. He was in almost every tackle or pass deflection when he was in the game.

Rogers is going to be a stud CB. once he gets his stamina up to par, he will be a standout player on this team. As long as our 3 starting CB stay healthy we will have no worries there.

Wilds, well he probably had the one of the worst showings this game. 4 completions in a row including a TD against him. His stock dropped on this game.

Im not worried about our safeties at all. All of those guys can play.

Im really disappointed that Campbell didnt play.

KMDeMuth
08-19-2005, 10:24 PM
Ramsey is still inconsistant. 1 great play followed by 1 awful play. He gets ur hopes up then ripes out ur heart on the next. Missed some open receivers and was able to thread the needle on some other throws. It looks like he may have something with Patten.

Patten can get some seperation against the 2nd CB. He is going to cause some mismatches against the defenses! Im looking forward to see this guy in the regular season.

Moss is fast as can be, and able to break some tackles. i didnt think he would be able to but that guy can fly.

The Starting OL is going to be a menace. They have no weak spot on teh 1st string. They will be a force to be reckoned with. FINALLY!!

Brunell has shown his skills against the 2nd and 3rd string defenses and he is lighting them up. His stats arent that good because his receivers had 4-5 easy drops. He has the touch and the arm strength to get it done. i would really like to see him against some first stringers.

The 1st string defense is going to be a force. Marcus Washington is going to have a monster year. He was in almost every tackle or pass deflection when he was in the game.

Rogers is going to be a stud CB. once he gets his stamina up to par, he will be a standout player on this team. As long as our 3 starting CB stay healthy we will have no worries there.

Wilds, well he probably had the one of the worst showings this game. 4 completions in a row including a TD against him. His stock dropped on this game.

Im not worried about our safeties at all. All of those guys can play.

Im really disappointed that Campbell didnt play.

I agree just about completely and i was glad to see 2 GOOD corners start. i couldnt have took another game with jimoh against any decent wr.

Redskinfan28
08-19-2005, 10:27 PM
Rogers certainly got picked on tonight but no worries. Greg Williams said last year he wants his rookies to have some adversity early on so they can realize its not college anymore. Rogers has alot of work to do to be effective on this level, but hopefully he can stay healthy and simply play nickel this year.

inevitable
08-19-2005, 10:29 PM
I agree 100% with your Campbell sentiment. Ramsey's poor play has directly affected Campbells learning opportunity. Granted its more important for the starting QB to get his stuff straight, I still feel that by preseason Ramsey should have his stuff together, and be working out the kinks, not reworking the entire system, as he appears to be doing at the moment.


I disagree with the Brunell comment. I feel that despite "working over" 2nd/3rd stringers, he is doing it with a 2nd/3rd string line, and 3rd/4th string receivers. If Ramsey looked as shaky as he did with the starting O-line, which is quickly turning into a Burgandy and Gold wall, imagine if he'd been in with the second string.

Combine Brunell's ability to avoid the rush and make plays with the new-found consistency of the revamped offensive line, and I think we got something there.

We've given Patrick 4 quarters to show consistency - I think that's all people wanted, not necessarily brilliance, just consistency - and he hasn't shown it at all.

Let's give Brunell just 1 quarter with the starters to see how he makes out. It certainly can't hurt anyone, unless Ramsey is so damn uptight he nose-dives from the competition.

CapitalDefense
08-19-2005, 10:30 PM
You hit the nail on the head Chris!!!

Marcus Washington is the best defender we have IMO and that is saying alot.

Patten and Moss are fast!!!

NCskinsfanatic
08-19-2005, 10:30 PM
Nice analysis. I would also like to see mark get some reps against the 1st string and hey maybe Ramsey could get some confidence against the second stringers since thats the only reason brunell looks good... :rolleyes: . Bottom line is Gibbs QB's have always looked good(in the past) because of the o-line. Rypein, an aged, battered version of Doug Williams and even Joey T were not the cream of the crop at QB during our SB runs. It was the O-line, my point you ask? The lines fine whats Ramseys excuse?

skins74
08-19-2005, 10:32 PM
I didn't get to see the game, who did better Rock or Nemo?

KMDeMuth
08-19-2005, 10:37 PM
I didn't get to see the game, who did better Rock or Nemo?

both played really well....but we have a starter and a back up back in betts. rock is a great rb, but we need a powerback/3rd down back and NEMO! is that. :)

REDMAN
08-19-2005, 10:42 PM
Ram needs to work on his touch and he needs to put more air under his deep throws. MB looks crisp and on this 1 throw in the flat to his te, he lobbed the ball over tight coverage. nice.

skins74
08-19-2005, 10:42 PM
both played really well....but we have a starter and a back up back in betts. rock is a great rb, but we need a powerback/3rd down back and NEMO! is that. :)

I love Rock but he is not big enough to be a power back, I am not saying he is not a powerful guy he just can't get heavy enough to move the pile, we need a bruiser.

PennSkinsFan
08-19-2005, 10:45 PM
You hit the nail on the head Chris!!!

Marcus Washington is the best defender we have IMO and that is saying alot.

Patten and Moss are fast!!!

Marcus Washington is the best PLAYER on this team.

inevitable
08-19-2005, 10:46 PM
Ram needs to work on his touch and he needs to put more air under his deep throws. MB looks crisp and on this 1 throw in the flat to his te, he lobbed the ball over tight coverage. nice.

Yeah, I believe Theismann said he looked like he was throwing a javelin. I found that assement to be quite accurate.

And that touch on the throw to the tight end, Baber, was really nice, and had that been Cooley, I think it would have been a completion. Also, the rocket he zinged at Jamin Elliot was really sweet. I feel a first stringer would've caught that. Finally, that deep out to Antonio Brown was perfectly delivered. Had AB turned the other way, instead of going out of bounds, he could've got 6 with his speed and moves.

Redskinfan28
08-19-2005, 11:01 PM
Wow - Gibbs was pissed after the game, mostly about the turnovers. Never heard him that mad.

Death_Venom
08-19-2005, 11:05 PM
Overall I think Brunnell performed well overall considering some recievers dropped very catch-able ballls. Ramsey did much better in this game but i think the timing between recievers and the QB is still off.

Nemo was looking very good except for that fumble. :(

inevitable
08-19-2005, 11:13 PM
Ramsey did much better in this game but i think the timing between recievers and the QB is still off.

Like, I don't want to attack you or your opinion or anything, but how did Ramsey perform much better? He produced 10 points with some of the best field position you could ask for. He squandered at least 10 points with silly turnovers. His throws into double coverage didn't necessarily hurt us, but they lead me to seriously question his judgement; and his staring down the receivers really hurt the offenses opportunity to make big plays.

I seriously though would like to get another perspective on Ramsey's performance - preferably from someone who thought he played better this week, because I don't want to be down, but it seems to me that there wasn't really anything great to see tonight. (again, sorry if it seemed like I attacked your opinion)

BigCountry
08-19-2005, 11:16 PM
Maybe Brunnell is the universe's way of compensating us for Rich Gannon. Kind of a similar story excluding the fact that Brunnell has already been a star.

Biggie
08-19-2005, 11:18 PM
Yeah, I believe Theismann said he looked like he was throwing a javelin. I found that assement to be quite accurate.

And that touch on the throw to the tight end, Baber, was really nice, and had that been Cooley, I think it would have been a completion. Also, the rocket he zinged at Jamin Elliot was really sweet. I feel a first stringer would've caught that. Finally, that deep out to Antonio Brown was perfectly delivered. Had AB turned the other way, instead of going out of bounds, he could've got 6 with his speed and moves.

I'm going to say it: Those three straight drops lost us the game. What makes it worse is that they were to practice squad players who are supposed to be fighting for a spot, and I believe the three of them should be cut tomorrow morning. You can't lose your team a game like that, period.

As for Ramsey/Brunell, I do think Brunell should get a chance to play against first-stringers. After all, it's not physical ability or throw power that's making the difference between these two. In the end, it all comes down to two words.

DECISION MAKING

Ramsey just can't make good throws. That throw in the end zone screamed interception, and he can't expect Thrash to out-jump a reciever like that. Plus, some of those throws he made in the open field weren't actually that good, but thanks to good effort by the wideouts, they were completed. There's a reason he threw all those incompletions early on: The guy can't make the quick, accurate decisions that a quarterback needs to make. He has the O-line, he has great running backs and solid recieving options to turn to, and he just needs to learn how to put it all together. If he could do that, he would be great.

I was really happy with the O-line, not because of what I saw, but because of what I didn't see. I didn't see any major pressure on the quarterbacks. I saw a beatifully clear backfield with whoever had the ball getting all day to do something with it. I love our offensive line, and I think they'll be the bright spot of the offense this year. Just watch.

Nemo has run his way into a roster spot. Fumble or not, the guy is the power runner we never had. Poor Rock (although I seriously wish both he and Nemo could stay) is a tough, hard-working player with power, just no size. Nemo gives us all of that and the force to punch it in. I want him running us into the end zone all season.

The defense is great. Just... great. Palmer was 2-for-9 and with a pick against our starters, and if we had Arrington playing, it might have been even better for us. Rodgers needs to build up his lungs and stamina while he comes back from his injury, and once he does that, we have ourselves a future Pro Bowl corner.

Well, the quarterback issue is what it comes down to. If somebody can take over and just control and command this offense (not even necessarily be a great passer) we could be in the top third of the league, and God knows our defense will play lights out with a proper ball control offense keeping them fresh.

CapitalDefense
08-19-2005, 11:20 PM
Ramsey did much better in this game but i think the timing between recievers and the QB is still off.

Brunell seems to have his timing down with Jamin Elliott, who, and Robert Johnson who was just signed last week. Besides they have only been working together since March with mini camps and 5000 OTA's.

inevitable
08-19-2005, 11:26 PM
Excellent post BigGamer, really summarizes my thoughts on the game, and our current situation as well.

bgforever
08-19-2005, 11:31 PM
Ramsey is still inconsistant. 1 great play followed by 1 awful play. He gets ur hopes up then ripes out ur heart on the next. Missed some open receivers and was able to thread the needle on some other throws. It looks like he may have something with Patten.

Patten can get some seperation against the 2nd CB. He is going to cause some mismatches against the defenses! Im looking forward to see this guy in the regular season.

Moss is fast as can be, and able to break some tackles. i didnt think he would be able to but that guy can fly.

The Starting OL is going to be a menace. They have no weak spot on teh 1st string. They will be a force to be reckoned with. FINALLY!!

Brunell has shown his skills against the 2nd and 3rd string defenses and he is lighting them up. His stats arent that good because his receivers had 4-5 easy drops. He has the touch and the arm strength to get it done. i would really like to see him against some first stringers.

The 1st string defense is going to be a force. Marcus Washington is going to have a monster year. He was in almost every tackle or pass deflection when he was in the game.

Rogers is going to be a stud CB. once he gets his stamina up to par, he will be a standout player on this team. As long as our 3 starting CB stay healthy we will have no worries there.

Wilds, well he probably had the one of the worst showings this game. 4 completions in a row including a TD against him. His stock dropped on this game.

Im not worried about our safeties at all. All of those guys can play.

Im really disappointed that Campbell didnt play.


Thanks for a refreshing analysis!!! This suffices for me because of my lack of availability and of course sparodic appearances here, signing off, back on, so this helps me to match my thoughts and yours is just the type of synopsis I needed.

bgforever
08-19-2005, 11:35 PM
I think you go one more game with Ramsey to justify all the mess he may or may not be in. If he still stays shaky like a new born calf, then Joe Gibbs and Graves willl have to sit down with Ramsey and ask. After three live fires, what's up Patrick?

Other than that, if he comes through ok, take him to task in the Baltimore game, the tuneup in the 1st QTR with Lewis, Reed, Suggs, Sanders and all will wake him up quick.

sdredskinsfan
08-19-2005, 11:36 PM
I'll bet you that Gibbs could accept mediocre passes from Ramsey as long as he doesn't make too many turnovers. But, Ramsey can't even manage that right now. Gibbs might let Brunell try it with the first-stringers, but his real decision comes opening day. Hopefully Ramsey is solid the next couple of pre-season games. If not, if Gibbs plays him the first few games of the season, he would be risking the entire season. This will be interesting.

bgforever
08-19-2005, 11:47 PM
I'll bet you that Gibbs could accept mediocre passes from Ramsey as long as he doesn't make too many turnovers. But, Ramsey can't even manage that right now. Gibbs might let Brunell try it with the first-stringers, but his real decision comes opening day. Hopefully Ramsey is solid the next couple of pre-season games. If not, if Gibbs plays him the first few games of the season, he would be risking the entire season. This will be interesting.


I stick with Pat for at least the look in the Baltimore game, If MB comes through even better against Pittsburgh and Baltimore's second string, and quite a few first stringers, I lean with MB, should Patrick keep leaving doubt. Indecision breads indecision and JG can' afford not making one BEFORE the end of the Baltimore game.

DUCKIN_TACKLERS
08-20-2005, 12:05 AM
OKAY...WHY ARE WE DOING THIS...People havent we learned from last year you cant make any real decison on our Offense until the Regular Season. The offense is so different then. Lets not over react and throw away the season Just yet. Has Ramsey looked bad in Preseason. YES but did he look good at the end of last year YES. Im just Stoked that the QB play all around looks better. But lets wait until Clinton is toting the Rock and the Bullets are real before we alienate the Starting QB. Id hate to hear BOOS at the Bears game lets all Just Cheer on Whoever Gibbs Goes with.

X-Factor13
08-20-2005, 12:09 AM
does anyone else think it is fairly sad how our hate for mark brunell has instantly turned to relief that we have him? I remember that someone had a sig talking about how trading for brunell was the dumbest trade ever and it had this thing in it :banghead: ... doesn't look so silly now i guess.

it's amazing how this type of thing always comes back to bite us in the butt.

BigCountry
08-20-2005, 12:27 AM
OKAY...WHY ARE WE DOING THIS...People havent we learned from last year you cant make any real decison on our Offense until the Regular Season. The offense is so different then. Lets not over react and throw away the season Just yet. Has Ramsey looked bad in Preseason. YES but did he look good at the end of last year YES. Im just Stoked that the QB play all around looks better. But lets wait until Clinton is toting the Rock and the Bullets are real before we alienate the Starting QB. Id hate to hear BOOS at the Bears game lets all Just Cheer on Whoever Gibbs Goes with.

Yeah last year's offense scored points in the preseason...

SkinsKY
08-20-2005, 12:32 AM
Big Gamer,

I disagree with your assessment of Ramsey. It wasn't his decision making that caused those interceptions. I think the decision to throw both of those balls was fine. It was his placement of those passes that was the problem. Had he thrown higher to Thrash, James had no play on it and it was either incomplete or a TD. No problem there. Had he settled his momentum on the second throw, the ball wouldn't have carried as much and there wouldn't have been a pick there. I thought Ramsey's decisions came much faster than I've ever seen him and the ball was out quickly. I liked that. He looked confident and wasn't afraid to throw. That's a big hurdle. We have a few more weeks to settle him a little. He had over 10yds a pass attempt. TEN YARDS PER PASS ATTEMPT!! I haven't seen a stat like that in a while from a Redskins QB. A couple of bad throws, but a slew of nice ones, so I'm not bailing on the kid just yet.

My take on Brunell:
I thought he played quite well for the most part. His passes were laser tight and that was a welcome sight. He was accurate, which is something he was known for, until last year. That's great. This is my concern (and I didn't see all of the second half so I might have missed something): When the pressure came, I could see him get rattled a bit. On one play, he started getting his happy feet again, but settled it down again and made a throw. It almost cost him. The second thing came on his sack. Yes the line got blown up that play, but he pump faked and pulled it down and instead of scrambling to his left, which was pretty open, he dropped further back and took a sack.

From both QBs I need to see a little more, but I feel much better about this year's situation than last year's.

redskin_rich
08-20-2005, 12:45 AM
I just got home from the game and I must admit that Ramsey's play left me disheartened. Sure, he made some nice passes to wide open recievers but the 2 interceptions were inexcusable. In both cases he threw into heavy coverage and to make matters worse he floated the passes. One was in the red zone and the other was darn close, in both situations he should have thrown the ball away.

I have been supportive of Ramsey but after watching him play tonight and seeing the field, I have to say that he can't read a defense (even a simple preseason one) and I have lost my faith in him.

I didn't expect him to be great, all he has to do is not make stupid mistakes, yet he seems incapeable of even doing that.

Rant over, we have a good team on the other fronts but I am worried about our QB.

I don't know why we are wasting game play with Brunell, we know what he can do. I wish Jason Campbell would/could play more, as I feel he could do better than the others.

silverspring
08-20-2005, 02:03 AM
-antonio brown seemed to play great ST and WR except for that recovered fumble

-All our 1st string WRs are getting seperation and making plays

-Nemo and Rock both played great, decisions to come

-Marcus Washington

-But most of all I think we should all be thanking our lucky stars because we played our first string offense, particularly the line, way more than you traditionally would and we got NO INJURIES. This was a huge risk, but it will pay off. All those reps those guys are getting in a game situation has to be invaluable.

SonnyandSam
08-20-2005, 02:22 AM
I agree with a lot of what you posted Rich. I also have been a Ramsey supporter and felt with time he would step up and be a leader. He simply is either making poor decisions or simply making very bad passes that hurt his team.

The first interception was a good decision that was poorly executed. If properly thrown to the the back of the end zone, only Thrash would have had the opportunity to catch ball. But again, he throws the ball short and into the hands of the corner. The second interception should never have been thrown.

Even his completions were ordinary or inexcusable. He threaded a ball to Moss who was double covered. Yes, Moss caught the ball but it should have never been thrown his way. In other cases, like the TD pass or the couple of passes to Patten, they were wide open and any average quarterback should/would make those passes.

Ramsey was better than last week but is still far to inconsistent to give him the starting job. Brunell needs to be given the opportunity.

I think Gibbs should start Ramsey against the Steelers and alternate the two for the game....deep into the second half.

As for my impressions of the rest of the team....

The offensive line looked awesome! They abused the Bungles defensive line; whether on running plays or pass protection. Dockery led a sweep to the right where he pancaked TWO defensive linemen to get Betts free around the corner. Rabach was solid in the middle. Twice I saw Samuels literally run over his guy on running plays pushing him back 5-6 yards.

Rock and Nemo played very well. Nemo did fumble the ball on the final drive but that should not keep him off the team. The guy is a beast running over players; not once but several times. And Rock had a second great game, running and receiving. I'd keep both these guys before keeping White who was generally a no-show for the second game. And let's not forget about Betts. He had a very good game in the limited amount of time he was in.


Receivers....Patten was phenomenal. Not only did he get separation but he made smart plays along the side line by keeping his feet in bounds. Very impressive day for him. Moss was OK. Could see his speed but nothing impressive today. Thrash played in the slot and did well getting open. If Ramsey had been a little more on target James would have had a better day. Brown ran some nice routes but also dropped a few. His returns were average; maybe slightly better. Still would like to see him break one.

The defensive line didn't look shabby either. I haven't seen many posts about them. But the run defense looked very stout in the first period with the starters. A few problems running wide but that really is the linebackers primary jobs. Pass rush was OK. Most of the pressure was coming from cornerbacks and linebackers on blitz'

Marcus Washington.....Damn....he can play. With LaVar on the other side, we have a hell of a pursuit team. Marshall and Smith did OK inside....no major impressions. I would give a slight edge to Marshall. He was a little quicker and better in pass defense. McCune showed a lot of speed for the Mike. Made a couple tackles on each sideline. Didn't observe much in the middle, though

Springs played well for the short period he was in. Ade "Toast" Jimoh didn't get burned for a change. Even made some nice plays on some short passes. Rogers did not impress me. The interception was thrown right to him. He did not have to move. Got burned badly twice in a row on fly patterns. Receiver dropped the first but caught the second for a TD. He got beat a couple other times, too. To his credit he did make some nice plays and was in on some tackles. Should have had two sacks on the QB but misplayed both. Taylor was beaten badly again but was saved by a poor Carson Palmer pass. Speaking of this guy, Palmer was less impressive than Ramsey. All the talking heads are saying how this will be Palmer's breakout year to be a great QB. He sucked. He ran a few balls but his passes were off target and ill conceived most of the time.

Stoutmire made some nice tackles at safety, also.

Best part of the night were my new seats. Row 5 is awesome baby. I LOVE THE VIEW from there.

Later folks...time for bed...

whitskins
08-20-2005, 02:25 AM
The best thing about tonight's game is that we're a freaking solid QB away from being a sweet football team. Our defense is just beastly and still hasn't gotten Lavar back, we have much improved special teams, our O-line looks real sharp, our WRs are getting open way more than last year and stretching the field, and we have Portis. If we have a QB who can convert third downs and not throw the ball to the other team then we're a darn good football team. We are a better team overall than last year and will continue to get better. Patten and Moss I think will have great years, Patten is gonna have a 1000 yard season that guy is just always open, what a gamer, I love him already.

I am very nervous about our QB play but in the preseason we have seen Gibbs put his QBs in charge of the offense, in the regular season that will be Portis' job. I just hope that someone steps up and decides to be our quarterback because once we get some strong and consistent play from that position we are gonna be a tough team. As an all around team I'm pretty encouraged by this group.

hail2skins
08-20-2005, 04:45 AM
I merged a couple of threads that were on this topic.

dabro
08-20-2005, 05:21 AM
... Rypein, an aged, battered version of Doug Williams ...

Gee, I thought Doug Williams was an aged and battered version of Doug Williams!

dabro
08-20-2005, 05:39 AM
Redskin_Rich, I'm with you. I don't think Ramsey sees the field. I think he has tunnel vision; he gloms onto one receiver, makes his mind up, and throws - no matter what the defense is doing. After 3 yrs in the league, he should have overcome this tendancy by now.

dabro
08-20-2005, 05:50 AM
Brown ran some nice routes but also dropped a few. His returns were average; maybe slightly better. Still would like to see him break one.

LaVarPA, I agree with everything you wrote except the above quote. I thought he did a great job on returns, consistently getting to the 20 and well beyond, with a couple of long returns which yielded good field position. He, and the entire ST improved this week over last, and he's going to be a real threat this year.

Also, Brougham(?), the punter can really boom 'em!

Keino
08-20-2005, 08:59 AM
Wow - Gibbs was pissed after the game, mostly about the turnovers. Never heard him that mad.


Ahhh, the old Gibbs is back. I remember him getting pissed alot during his first tenure. I was waiting for it all last year, but all he'd do is compliment his players on how gutsy they were. I suspect Gibbs will be introducing his size 10's to the players' posteriors this year.....

CapitalDefense
08-20-2005, 09:07 AM
Marcus Washington is the best PLAYER on this team.
I wouldn't go that far, I would like to think that a guy named Portis is pretty special on the other side as well. Griffin doesn't get enough credit for his disruption in the middle. Marcus is top 2 or 3 no doubt...

skins lady
08-20-2005, 09:18 AM
I thought we did pretty good for our 2nd pre-season game. The only game that I really want to win in the pre-season is the last game against the Ravens because I think it would be better to come into the season with a good start. If Ramsey hadn't thrown 2 ints than I think we would have won the game and Ramsey would have looked a lot better in stats. The 2 ints were when we had pretty good field position so if Ramsey hadn't thrown them we probably would have scored. I thought our O-line was excellent. Our 1st team D was great, Rogers will get better with time. Special teams did a terrific job also.

BurgundyNGold
08-20-2005, 10:44 AM
I was sitting in Bandwagon's seats last night, and they have a great perspective of the whole field so I tried to focus on our WRs and the passing game. A couple of observations:

Our top 3 or 4 receivers were getting separation and were getting open. David Patten and Antonio Brown were routinely getting open by several yards and were finding seams in the defense. That was the most promising thing to me.

Kevin Dyson is coming on pretty strong doing all the little things. I think DMAC does not realize that he had better step it up. He looked to be going half speed all night.

Ramsey made some great throws last night. However, his bad decisions looked even worse at the game than on TV. They were horrible. I think he might need to get his vision checked out, and I'm not trying to be mean. He might really have a medical condition like a blind spot or something.

There is a huge difference between when Ramsey sets his feet and throws versus when he does that Donkey Kong thing with his feet. Also, he was a little bit late on too many of his throws last night. The good news is that he was accurate and he was not as late on his throws as last week.

Defensively, we were very strong, even while missing a few starters. We got better DL pressure than we did last week, but I'm still concerned that we don't have a legitimate pass rushing DL.

I think our aggressiveness on D will leave us as susceptible to draw plays all year as we were last night.

Carlos Rogers was sticking out in a good way until he got winded and victimized. After that first play where the ball was overthrown, I saw him waddle-jog come back to the huddle slowly. I thought he had hurt his ankle again and was praying that GW would give him help over the top. He didn't and the rest is history. However, I'm glad that he was only winded and that GW was able to get that lesson in.

EDIT: I forgot the OL. Pass protection off of the edges were not as good as we would like to see. Both Samuels and Jansen were getting beaten. The interior OL pass protection was pretty solid with only the occasional guy running free. Where 1st, 2nd and 3rd units all stood out was in run blocking. Gaping holes all around. If they can do that every week, we're in great shape.

BTW, Bandwagon is the real deal. I just thought everyone else should know. Thanks dude!

skinfan43
08-20-2005, 10:46 AM
Besides being extremely impressed with the OLine (not counting that way-too-telegraphed-by-Gibbs 4th&1 where Rock never had a chance, I could picture JG thinking, "So what if they know, we can still get the 1st." Don't see THAT happening in the regular season;)) - the STARTING receivers (final roster guys) all played great,&starting D minus a couple KEY pieces was suffocating once again.(man, I love that, remember how many years we had one of the most embarASSing defenses in the league? not very long ago...) A QB needs to take charge NOW. 2 weeks to get that squared away, should be VERY interesting.
Also--a quarter-by-quarter breakdown by Tandler (Warpath),some interesting observations:
http://redskins.scout.com/2/426683.html

The Skinsinator
08-20-2005, 10:51 AM
The best thing about tonight's game is that we're a freaking solid QB away from being a sweet football team.

This is by far and away the most frustrating/encouraging thought of all. However, there should be no reason to not find efficiency from this position with the talent present along with Gibbs previous success from the position. I don't care about Ramsey's feelings anymore, as harsh as that sounds. We need what is best for the Redskins not him. If he doesn't look good in the first 2 preseason games, why would he look competent during real play when it counts? I know you don't want a qb controversy, however with a great oline (as purported) and awesome def, we desperately need a qb who makes smart decision and once in a blue moon turn the ball over. Folks, we have the most explosive back in the nfl, another one that is very good that could easily start for most nfl teams, and 2 bruisers. I am confident we will be an excellent running team. We don't need Peyton Manning to be successful. Just someone smart and experienced. I really think Ramsey has had plenty of chances, maybe already, and I see no reason why he would amazingly turn this around come game time? Sorry for the harshness of this post, however it's almost reg season and we gotta get going. It sounds like I'm not the only one pissed after reading about Gibbs.

HAIL TO THE SKINS!!

Blind-sided
08-20-2005, 11:03 AM
I will have to also agree with your statements. I would like to see how M. Brunell looks with the first string O as well as the first D. Great news about the defense. I cannot wait to see them in full action , punishing opposing offenses thru-out the game.

Redskinfan28
08-20-2005, 11:09 AM
Oh yea, for those of you who were at the game and booed Patrick Ramsey after the SECOND throw of the game - you suck as fans.

I am as frustrated as anyone, but don't boo the QB just because he has an incompletion.

chrisbcbu
08-20-2005, 11:14 AM
Oh yea, for those of you who were at the game and booed Patrick Ramsey after the SECOND throw of the game - you suck as fans.

I am as frustrated as anyone, but don't boo the QB just because he has an incompletion.

Ya i had started another thread about The wave and booing the players. I was really disappointed.

BurgundyNGold
08-20-2005, 11:15 AM
Oh yea, for those of you who were at the game and booed Patrick Ramsey after the SECOND throw of the game - you suck as fans.

I am as frustrated as anyone, but don't boo the QB just because he has an incompletion.
Yeah, they were just as bad as those fans who were chanting "We want Campbell!" at about the 8:00 mark of the 4Q. Brunell was trying to drive us down to score and that's what these people were chanting in his ear.

Disgusting.

redskin_rich
08-20-2005, 11:18 AM
I don't think a lot of the people in the stands last night were the regulars. There were a lot of kids who were just there for something to do on a Friday night.

BurgundyNGold
08-20-2005, 11:20 AM
Oh, one more thought. We need to get at least one, maybe two bigger targets for use in the red zone. Cooley and Royal are great, but we need a WR with some size on the outside or it's going to be another long year in the red zone.

FanFromArizona
08-20-2005, 11:40 AM
I'm going to say it: Those three straight drops lost us the game. What makes it worse is that they were to practice squad players who are supposed to be fighting for a spot, and I believe the three of them should be cut tomorrow morning. You can't lose your team a game like that, period.

As for Ramsey/Brunell, I do think Brunell should get a chance to play against first-stringers. After all, it's not physical ability or throw power that's making the difference between these two. In the end, it all comes down to two words.

DECISION MAKING

Good use of colors! I totally agree with your assessment, this is something that can not be taught and makes me most concerned about the success of our upcoming regular season.



Ramsey just can't make good throws. That throw in the end zone screamed interception, and he can't expect Thrash to out-jump a reciever like that. Plus, some of those throws he made in the open field weren't actually that good, but thanks to good effort by the wideouts, they were completed. There's a reason he threw all those incompletions early on: The guy can't make the quick, accurate decisions that a quarterback needs to make. He has the O-line, he has great running backs and solid recieving options to turn to, and he just needs to learn how to put it all together. If he could do that, he would be great.

It is unfortunate that we have the 90% of the ingredients we need to be a successful team that the other 10% is dragging us down, I am hoping we get the remainder fixed in time for our game against Chicago.


I was really happy with the O-line, not because of what I saw, but because of what I didn't see. I didn't see any major pressure on the quarterbacks. I saw a beatifully clear backfield with whoever had the ball getting all day to do something with it. I love our offensive line, and I think they'll be the bright spot of the offense this year. Just watch.

Nemo has run his way into a roster spot. Fumble or not, the guy is the power runner we never had. Poor Rock (although I seriously wish both he and Nemo could stay) is a tough, hard-working player with power, just no size. Nemo gives us all of that and the force to punch it in. I want him running us into the end zone all season.

The defense is great. Just... great. Palmer was 2-for-9 and with a pick against our starters, and if we had Arrington playing, it might have been even better for us. Rodgers needs to build up his lungs and stamina while he comes back from his injury, and once he does that, we have ourselves a future Pro Bowl corner.


At this point I want to see a win in the next 2 games, I want to see what our first teamers can do against premier defenses[Steelers and Baltimore] and I want to see our defense strangle the offenses of the Steelers and Baltimore. I think we have many things to look forward to with our OL and RB situation, I am waiting to see our ENTIRE first team defense on the field to see what we have going into the season.

All in all, now is the time to begin watching, I hope we can do better so we can march into the season with good chemistry and fundamentals.

HAWGZHEAD
08-20-2005, 11:53 AM
I didn't get to see the game but I listened to it on satellite radio. We were dominated by the bengals, I don't even know how some of you can be so positive. Ramsey, with his 2 picks( shoulda been 3 ) a blown TD pass by both Ramsey and Brunell, fumbles, and we gave up over 20 first downs. I think I am more pissed than Gibbs. Ramsey hasn't shown one ounce of improvement on his decison making skills and shouldn't be starting for any team in the NFL right now. As much as I was dissapointed with Brunells performance last year he looks like one of the lesser evils we have. I AM TIRED OF LOSING FOOTBALL GAMES PERIOD, don't care whether it is preseason or not. There thank God I got that out. Oh nice job on kick returns though.

IMALILTEAPOT
08-20-2005, 11:57 AM
one word to describe our wideouts: SEPERATION

FanFromArizona
08-20-2005, 12:11 PM
Ahhh, the old Gibbs is back. I remember him getting pissed alot during his first tenure. I was waiting for it all last year, but all he'd do is compliment his players on how gutsy they were. I suspect Gibbs will be introducing his size 10's to the players' posteriors this year.....

Dang, that's a big foot! :Partybig:

padraic
08-20-2005, 12:15 PM
i wanted to jump into the tv and beat the tar out of kelly washington for the fair little dance he did, god that made me made. i guess when your first name is kelly its ok to dance like a girl

SonnyandSam
08-20-2005, 01:18 PM
LaVarPA, I agree with everything you wrote except the above quote. I thought he did a great job on returns, consistently getting to the 20 and well beyond, with a couple of long returns which yielded good field position. He, and the entire ST improved this week over last, and he's going to be a real threat this year.

Also, Brougham(?), the punter can really boom 'em!

I agree Brown looked better than last week. But is that really saying much? And getting to the 20 or 25 on kickoff returns is no big deal when he was catching the ball on the ten!. Their kicker was short all night long. His punt returns, one in particular was pretty good. He jitterbugged and sidestepped three different tacklers on one return that netted about 14 yards.

Better but still no big returns...certainly we never saw his great speed.

SonnyandSam
08-20-2005, 01:21 PM
I didn't get to see the game but I listened to it on satellite radio. We were dominated by the bengals, I don't even know how some of you can be so positive. Ramsey, with his 2 picks( shoulda been 3 ) a blown TD pass by both Ramsey and Brunell, fumbles, and we gave up over 20 first downs. I think I am more pissed than Gibbs. Ramsey hasn't shown one ounce of improvement on his decison making skills and shouldn't be starting for any team in the NFL right now. As much as I was dissapointed with Brunells performance last year he looks like one of the lesser evils we have. I AM TIRED OF LOSING FOOTBALL GAMES PERIOD, don't care whether it is preseason or not. There thank God I got that out. Oh nice job on kick returns though.

I don't know about "dominated". Did you know we had more offensive yardage than the Bengals? Ramsey blew two red zone scoring opportunities against their first string defense. I have a hard time counting much of anything team wise that happens in the second half when the scrubs are in. Despite Ramsey's failing's we were down only 14-10 at half. I think domination is a little over-reactive.

SonnyandSam
08-20-2005, 01:24 PM
The best thing about tonight's game is that we're a freaking solid QB away from being a sweet football team. Our defense is just beastly and still hasn't gotten Lavar back, we have much improved special teams, our O-line looks real sharp, our WRs are getting open way more than last year and stretching the field, and we have Portis. If we have a QB who can convert third downs and not throw the ball to the other team then we're a darn good football team. We are a better team overall than last year and will continue to get better. Patten and Moss I think will have great years, Patten is gonna have a 1000 yard season that guy is just always open, what a gamer, I love him already.

I am very nervous about our QB play but in the preseason we have seen Gibbs put his QBs in charge of the offense, in the regular season that will be Portis' job. I just hope that someone steps up and decides to be our quarterback because once we get some strong and consistent play from that position we are gonna be a tough team. As an all around team I'm pretty encouraged by this group.


EXCELLENT POINT!

We have an excellent overall team...offense and defense.

Like I have posted elsewhere....I don't care WHO steps forward. I just want one person to step forward and paly like and NFL quarterback.

IMALILTEAPOT
08-20-2005, 01:50 PM
i just hate it how whenever we get in the redzone we struggle to punch it in, but whoever plays us does well in the redzone

NCskinsfanatic
08-20-2005, 06:20 PM
Gee, I thought Doug Williams was an aged and battered version of Doug Williams!
Well thats what I meant ........ :banghead: !

dabro
08-20-2005, 09:02 PM
I agree Brown looked better than last week. But is that really saying much? And getting to the 20 or 25 on kickoff returns is no big deal when he was catching the ball on the ten!. Their kicker was short all night long. His punt returns, one in particular was pretty good. He jitterbugged and sidestepped three different tacklers on one return that netted about 14 yards.

Better but still no big returns...certainly we never saw his great speed.

That run up the middle was a thing of beauty, though! The thing I like best about him is that he runs north & south and takes the yards that are there. Brian Mitchell was commenting on that recently. He noted that you take every inch you can get - sometimes it's only going to be 5 yards, sometimes 60, but you don't dance around trying to find the perfect opening, you just go. After watching him at the end of the season last year, and watching him in the 2 preaseason games this year, I think he's going to break some open. He's definitely going to be a threat.

dabro
08-20-2005, 09:06 PM
i wanted to jump into the tv and beat the tar out of kelly washington for the fair little dance he did, god that made me made. i guess when your first name is kelly its ok to dance like a girl

Me too!

Ibleedburgundy
08-20-2005, 09:25 PM
Marcus Washington is the best PLAYER on this team.

I'm gonna have to go ahead and agree with you there. I saw Washingon elluding blocks and finding the ball carrier with dare I say Ray Lewis-like vision.

Gclark84
08-21-2005, 02:34 AM
I have been in this biz 28 years; that garbage doesn't affect me anymore. But you should've seen Joe (Gibbs) when they said he couldn't coach anymore...his chest puffed out and said..I dont care what it takes, we're not leaving here without another ring

I loved this!!!!! I can't wait till Joe Gibbs brings us back to the way things should be in the NFC East. The Redskins on Top and winning Championships and the Low account Eagles and thier classless fans where they should be and that's at the bottom. Eagle fans have absolutley no respect for Gibbs and what he has accomplished. Gibbs=Class and most Eagle fans can't even spell the word.

I remember back in 1990 on a Monday night the Redskins were beaten up by the Eagles during a regular season game at that dump they called "The Vet". I was there and of course heard an earful. I left the game with about 5 minutes left and started shouting back that we would come back and kick thier ass when it counts. I got my wish when the Redskins came to the Vet for a wildcard playoff game and beat the Eagles 20-6 and ended Buddy Ryans tenure there. Joe Gibbs before that game told the team that the Eagles said that the Redskins were scared and wanted to go home and that you could see the fear it in thier eyes. Gibbs simply replied to a Reporter when asked about comments Buddy Ryan made after that infamous Monday night game. Gibbs turned to the reporter and said "Buddy Ryan" and then a short pause "Well See" and left it at that!!! The Buges statement above made me think of that time when Joe Gibbs and his team were questioned and we all know how that turned out!

BurgundyNGold
08-21-2005, 11:33 AM
I have been in this biz 28 years; that garbage doesn't affect me anymore. But you should've seen Joe (Gibbs) when they said he couldn't coach anymore...his chest puffed out and said..I dont care what it takes, we're not leaving here without another ring

I loved this!!!!! I can't wait till Joe Gibbs brings us back to the way things should be in the NFC East. The Redskins on Top and winning Championships and the Low account Eagles and thier classless fans where they should be and that's at the bottom. Eagle fans have absolutley no respect for Gibbs and what he has accomplished. Gibbs=Class and most Eagle fans can't even spell the word.

I remember back in 1990 on a Monday night the Redskins were beaten up by the Eagles during a regular season game at that dump they called "The Vet". I was there and of course heard an earful. I left the game with about 5 minutes left and started shouting back that we would come back and kick thier ass when it counts. I got my wish when the Redskins came to the Vet for a wildcard playoff game and beat the Eagles 20-6 and ended Buddy Ryans tenure there. Joe Gibbs before that game told the team that the Eagles said that the Redskins were scared and wanted to go home and that you could see the fear it in thier eyes. Gibbs simply replied to a Reporter when asked about comments Buddy Ryan made after that infamous Monday night game. Gibbs turned to the reporter and said "Buddy Ryan" and then a short pause "Well See" and left it at that!!! The Buges statement above made me think of that time when Joe Gibbs and his team were questioned and we all know how that turned out!
Agreed. That's exactly the incident I thought about when I heard Buges' account of what Joe said regarding getting another ring.

Just like all the top people in anything, there's one way to make sure that Joe Gibbs does something: Tell him that he can't.

skinsdude
08-21-2005, 12:06 PM
Ramsey is still inconsistant. 1 great play followed by 1 awful play. He gets ur hopes up then ripes out ur heart on the next. Missed some open receivers and was able to thread the needle on some other throws. It looks like he may have something with Patten.

Patten can get some seperation against the 2nd CB. He is going to cause some mismatches against the defenses! Im looking forward to see this guy in the regular season.

Moss is fast as can be, and able to break some tackles. i didnt think he would be able to but that guy can fly.

The Starting OL is going to be a menace. They have no weak spot on teh 1st string. They will be a force to be reckoned with. FINALLY!!

Brunell has shown his skills against the 2nd and 3rd string defenses and he is lighting them up. His stats arent that good because his receivers had 4-5 easy drops. He has the touch and the arm strength to get it done. i would really like to see him against some first stringers.

The 1st string defense is going to be a force. Marcus Washington is going to have a monster year. He was in almost every tackle or pass deflection when he was in the game.

Rogers is going to be a stud CB. once he gets his stamina up to par, he will be a standout player on this team. As long as our 3 starting CB stay healthy we will have no worries there.

Wilds, well he probably had the one of the worst showings this game. 4 completions in a row including a TD against him. His stock dropped on this game.

Im not worried about our safeties at all. All of those guys can play.

Im really disappointed that Campbell didnt play.

Great post. After watching Friday nights game I would like to see Brunell play with the first team. We have GOT to have some consistancy at the QB position. We don't need great play, we need sustained drives with NO INT's. I noticed that during the game the defensive play dropped off slightly after Ramsey started turning over the ball. The defense definitely feeds off of the offense. Can't leave the defense out on the field for the whole game. When the regular season starts you won't be able to substitute players like you can now. The starters will have to play almost the entire game.

skins lady
08-21-2005, 02:42 PM
I don't care that we lost. After all, the New England Patriots were 1-3 in the pre-season last year. What I don't like is that Ramsey threw 2 INT's when we were close to scoring. Overall I think we did a great job. O-line was great, 1st team defense was great (Rogers will learn in time, plus he's been out of training camp), running was solid (5 yard average is great), and the WR's were open most of the time and they made some terrific plays such as catch the ball near the sidelines and get 2 feet in (Patten's catch).

jerzeyredskin
08-21-2005, 02:59 PM
Does anyone have any feedback on how the defensive line looked?
More than anything the front 4!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Paintedbird
08-21-2005, 04:13 PM
I love Rock but he is not big enough to be a power back, I am not saying he is not a powerful guy he just can't get heavy enough to move the pile, we need a bruiser.

Nemo's the guy we've been waiting for. If that fumble was a fluke, he'll be a leading scorer in the league and the prize of the draft. If we had had him last year we would have 3-4 more games and had a fine season. Nemo the Lion! Our Red Zone problems are over.

Biggie
08-21-2005, 07:46 PM
Nemo's the guy we've been waiting for. If that fumble was a fluke, he'll be a leading scorer in the league and the prize of the draft. If we had had him last year we would have 3-4 more games and had a fine season. Nemo the Lion! Our Red Zone problems are over.

It was a fluke. I saw it, and it looked like it just sort of popped out. Even if it was a mechanical error, fixing that is as simple as changing the way you hold the football.