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dukeuch
08-24-2005, 12:44 PM
Anyone notice how Ron Dayne is tearing it up for the Broncos? Admittedly it is only per-season, but does this give any credence to the notion that Portis will never return to the lofty heights he attained in Denver?

akhhorus
08-24-2005, 12:46 PM
Dayne is doing this against the scrubs in the late 3rd-4th quarters, and Portis is the only Denver Rb to leave and have 1000 yards so far. Droughns might not even start for the Browns. Its talent with him.

IowaSkinsFan
08-24-2005, 12:47 PM
Anyone notice how Ron Dayne is tearing it up for the Broncos? Admittedly it is only per-season, but does this give any credence to the notion that Portis will never return to the lofty heights he attained in Denver?

Didn't Dayne tear it up last preseason also?

Judgements should be withheld until Portis plays w/ at least the threat of a passing game.

redskin_rich
08-24-2005, 12:48 PM
Anyone notice how Ron Dayne is tearing it up for the Broncos? Admittedly it is only per-season, but does this give any credence to the notion that Portis will never return to the lofty heights he attained in Denver?
He fell 128 yds short of a single season rushing record in Washington, in 14 games, with an offense that couldn't throw long to keep the Safeties honest.

Skinzsnut
08-24-2005, 12:49 PM
he is a system player.

skinfanjon
08-24-2005, 12:49 PM
While there are backs that thrive in Denver's system simply because it's Denver, Portis is not one of them. He earned his reputation, and still had a very good season last year. 1300 yards isn't a downyear for very many backs. He is the real deal

IowaSkinsFan
08-24-2005, 12:49 PM
He fell 128 yds short of a single season rushing record in Washington, in 14 games, with an offense that couldn't throw long to keep the Safeties honest.

Actually it was 15 games. But everything else is spot on.

Spence
08-24-2005, 12:50 PM
They have a great system in Denver and it helped Portis, just as it helped everyone else who has carried the football for that team in the last decade. But Portis is a very gifted and talented runner. Even in a system poorly suited to his ability, Portis still gained over 1300 yards last season. Portis' success in Denver was a happy confluence of great talent married to a great system.

Skinzsnut
08-24-2005, 12:50 PM
While there are backs that thrive in Denver's system simply because it's Denver, Portis is not one of them. He earned his reputation, and still had a very good season last year. 1300 yards isn't a downyear for very many backs. He is the real deal
3.8 yds. per carry is though.

PA Skins Girl
08-24-2005, 12:51 PM
Didn't Dayne tear it up last preseason also?

Yes, he did.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/NYG/2004/pre

redskin_rich
08-24-2005, 12:52 PM
Actually it was 15 games. But everything else is spot on.
I wasn't counting the Pitt game when he only had 6 carries.

tbfoster1
08-24-2005, 12:53 PM
Portis has talent and lots of it. He had a good year last year despite the rest of the offense, he can catch and run, and he makes some great downfield blocks. This is only his fourth year and he alone will be better, add in the stretched out offense....watch out.

Sweepea436
08-24-2005, 12:54 PM
Good question. Let's be honest, he's no Rashaan Salaam...... :lol1: I think he a talent back personally, but then again, I'm partial :Peace:

CNYSkinFan
08-24-2005, 12:55 PM
3.8 yds. per carry is though.

It is hard to get a hih average when the opponent stacks 8 in the box and Raymer goes for the grass lunch on every down.

Oh yeah Jansen was not on the line then.

There is an old average that a good offensive line will get a back the first 3 yards and the rest is his ability. I would venture that Portis probably got 2 or so last year.

How can anyone hat on a back who got 1300 yards in a new system with no passing game and only 15 games. I just don't understand fellow skin fans sometimes.

SkinsGal
08-24-2005, 12:56 PM
I do think the Denver system helped him, but Portis is a great back regardless. And even though his production might be a bit less outside of Denver, I still think he's one of the best RBs in the NFC. And everybody's right...if we just had a deep passing game I think his number would naturally improve.

flave1969
08-24-2005, 12:58 PM
Since when has 1315 yards by any back been shabby. We all saw with our own eyes the kind of offense we had last year and Portis still produced those yards. Our Red Zone blocking was abysmal this year, I lost count how many times we either were penalised or the opposition were in our backfield before the handoff.

As far as the Denver system is concerned, they have produced 1000 yard running backs regularly, but other than Portis, how many from Mike Anderson, Quentin Griffin, Olandis Gary etc, etc have three straight 1000 yard seasons, the answer is none.

Clinton Portis is IMO the most talented back Joe Gibbs has ever had. The man is barely 24years old and has 4400 plus rushing yards. That is talent not system.

The Skinsinator
08-24-2005, 12:59 PM
ESPN has him down as the 5th best fantasy player in the nfl this year. They think he's going to do very well under our revised line and system. He is an excellent cutback player and is very explosive. I have no doubt under the right system and the right oline, which I believe we may have, he will be devastating.

IowaSkinsFan
08-24-2005, 01:02 PM
I wasn't counting the Pitt game when he only had 6 carries.

Acknowledged.

bwparker
08-24-2005, 01:04 PM
I'll echo everyone elses opinion. Portis was a great back in a great system in Denver. He's left Denver but he still has top notch talent, the only knock on him is a lack of size...which he more than makes up for with speed and effort.

My roomate is a Bronco's fan. He didn't sweat losing Portis, because they would get 1000+ with anyone, but he thought it was actually a good move for us. He said Portis is the most talented back they have had in the past 10 years, probably ever.

sknz2856
08-24-2005, 01:13 PM
Didn't Dayne tear it up last preseason also?

Judgements should be withheld until Portis plays w/ at least the threat of a passing game.

yeah...because without one he gained 1315 yards. Not too shabby when they know you can't pass.

Battle Cat
08-24-2005, 01:20 PM
I'll echo everyone elses opinion. Portis was a great back in a great system in Denver. He's left Denver but he still has top notch talent, the only knock on him is a lack of size...which he more than makes up for with speed and effort.

My roomate is a Bronco's fan. He didn't sweat losing Portis, because they would get 1000+ with anyone, but he thought it was actually a good move for us. He said Portis is the most talented back they have had in the past 10 years, probably ever.
Not a Broncos fan, but Terrell Davis was a pretty good back.

openallnight
08-24-2005, 01:21 PM
Seeing Portis live last year he is definately one of the best pure runners I've ever seen wearing the B&G. His cutting ability is comparable to little Joe's. His vision is comparable to Riggo's. His ability to finish a run comparable to Terry Allen. His speed is unmatched.
He cold improve upon his power a little bit. Especially as the season wore on last year. He seemed to be brought down by more arm tackles. But, his only real flaw is patience. He has too learn to wait on his blockers. This is probably a trait not as imporant in Denver's slashing run game. Although, once he gets this ability nailed he will be the complete NFL back and probably the best in Redskins' history.

dj_stouty
08-24-2005, 01:31 PM
Denver's system makes bad RBs look good...good RBs look great...and great RBs look phenominal.

Portis is in the later category. Terrell Davis and Clinton Portis were great running backs that had phenominal success under the Denver system.

Guys like Ruben Droughns, Mike Anderson, Olandis Gary and Quentin Griffin couldn't go anywhere and have anywhere close to the success they had/have in Denver. (And none of them could have done any better than what Portis did last season in Washington)

Another thing to think about. Portis had a 5.5ypc average over two seasons in Denver. T. Davis averaged 4.7ypc in his four full (or close to full) seasons in Denver. The closest he got to 5.5 was his last "big" season when he had a 5.1 ypc. Olandis Gary only averaged 4.2ypc in his 1,100 yard season. Mike Anderson had 5.0ypc in his 1,400 yard season.

Portis had the most success in Denver than any other RB. Why? Because he is that darn good...

Now...if Portis was playing behind an O-line last year such as Indy or KC or GB...he would have easily had 5.5ypc and over 1,500 yards.

I shutter to think how he will do once Bugel gets this O-line in shape.

MoeRedskins
08-24-2005, 01:45 PM
Portis has got tons of talent and the system in Denver used all of it. Emmitt Smith had a lot of talent, but he also was in a incredible system with the best offense line of the era. Portis will bounce back this season, I have faith.

inevitable
08-24-2005, 01:49 PM
We've had the opportunity to see Portis run 1 time all preseason. With this new o-line, I'm 100% sure that he will have a more productive season, somewhere between 300-400 yards more, in my opinion. This stems from the fact that he rushes usually 20-30 times a game. The o-line is getting a full yard to yard and a half push more then last year. That's an extra 20 yards (minimum) a game, 320 for the season. Just off o-line play; assuming Portis has done nothing to better his game (which we know he has done this offseason), he should have a serious increase in yardage this year.

I say Portis gets 1700 yards easy this season.

bwparker
08-24-2005, 01:59 PM
Not a Broncos fan, but Terrell Davis was a pretty good back.
Which is why that was such a big complement. Stouty just said it best. Portis is the real deal.

PennSkinsFan
08-24-2005, 02:00 PM
Seeing Portis live last year he is definately one of the best pure runners I've ever seen wearing the B&G. His cutting ability is comparable to little Joe's. His vision is comparable to Riggo's. His ability to finish a run comparable to Terry Allen. His speed is unmatched.
He cold improve upon his power a little bit. Especially as the season wore on last year. He seemed to be brought down by more arm tackles. But, his only real flaw is patience. He has too learn to wait on his blockers. This is probably a trait not as imporant in Denver's slashing run game. Although, once he gets this ability nailed he will be the complete NFL back and probably the best in Redskins' history.

Yup. I think Portis goes way beyond a system back. His pure speed, knack for hitting the holes, and vision is unteachable, just pure talent. BUT, you can only do so much when the other part of the integral system, as for us the passing game, was defunct. If we had just a regular passing offense, not great, but just regular, Portis will have a huge year. If we prove again we can nto complete the long ball, then defenses will knwo they can pull up, and Portis will have the same type season.

ihatedallas
08-24-2005, 02:02 PM
Dayne is doing this against the scrubs in the late 3rd-4th quarters, and Portis is the only Denver Rb to leave and have 1000 yards so far. Droughns might not even start for the Browns. Its talent with him.

Good point, I think everyone knows Portis is no Olandis Gary...

Biggie
08-24-2005, 02:02 PM
20 carries per game with a 5.5 ypc average over 16 games is 1760 yards.

:mfast:

akhhorus
08-24-2005, 02:06 PM
Good point, I think everyone knows Portis is no Olandis Gary...

Well not only that, but TD had 2-3 good years before he broke down, Gary had one good year and disappeared after he left Denver, Mike Anderson has had a couple good years in Denver. Droughns apparently can't out and out win the Browns job over Lee Suggs and William Green. Portis has been successful outside of the Denver system. And despite Portis' "down year" of 2004, he's still on pace to break Emmitt Smith's rushing record.

Ibleedburgundy
08-24-2005, 02:09 PM
When I was attending Florida State University I said Portis was too small for the NFL. He had a cakewalk on that Miami team with that O-line and all the talant around him. The he went to Denver and had similr success but then again, no RB has failed in Denver under Shanahan. Then he became a Redskin and in my mind, that is when he proved that he is the real deal. 1300 yards in a pathetic offense when opponents are pointing to the spot where you are about to attack-that's tough yardage. What he accomplished last year stands above his accomplishments in Miami and Denver because the challenge was far greater.

I predict Portis runs for 1526 yards this season and he would have more but we're going to hold him out the last game and save him for the playoffs.

Skinzsnut
08-24-2005, 02:10 PM
It is hard to get a hih average when the opponent stacks 8 in the box and Raymer goes for the grass lunch on every down.

Oh yeah Jansen was not on the line then.

There is an old average that a good offensive line will get a back the first 3 yards and the rest is his ability. I would venture that Portis probably got 2 or so last year.

How can anyone hat on a back who got 1300 yards in a new system with no passing game and only 15 games. I just don't understand fellow skin fans sometimes.
Jamal Lewis did it and so did LT did for the Chargers. Everyone makes exscuses, but the fact is Portis cannot break a tackel to save his life.

Biggie
08-24-2005, 02:13 PM
Jamal Lewis did it and so did LT did for the Chargers. Everyone makes exscuses, but the fact is Portis cannot break a tackel to save his life.

...

Ok, let's take away half our offensive line, injure the rest, and put you back there.

Go rush for 1500 yards. :rolleyes:

The Skinsinator
08-24-2005, 02:14 PM
Portis had the most success in Denver than any other RB. Why? Because he is that darn good...

Now...if Portis was playing behind an O-line last year such as Indy or KC or GB...he would have easily had 5.5ypc and over 1,500 yards.

I shutter to think how he will do once Bugel gets this O-line in shape.

I get butterflies in my stomch reading this. Is it September 11th yet? I can't wait to watch CP run circles around the Bears.

joethefan
08-24-2005, 02:15 PM
I knew that Portis would not get 1500, not in the east. Now granted he had a whack oline and offense last year. But I do beleive he can make things work here....Seeing the Oline last friday just got me really excited. They finished their blocks and created time for both QB's'm really encouraged...

Biggie
08-24-2005, 02:16 PM
I get butterflies in my stomch reading this. Is it September 11th yet? I can't wait to watch CP run circles around the Bears.

I can hear Sonny already:

"AND CLINTON PORTIS JUST FLIES PAST BRIAN URLACHER! THAT'S A 64-YARD TOUCHDOWN RUN!"

Nobody'll mock me for wearing my B&G anymore.

wave6ten
08-24-2005, 02:23 PM
he is a system player.

You are smoking crack. Proble @$$ crack from a dallas fan or something.

Bottom line when you rush for over 1300 yds and people talk about how you had an "off" year.....that means he's the real deal. I think he is the 2nd best running back talent in the league behind LT.

PA Skins Girl
08-24-2005, 02:24 PM
Denver will regret trading Portis. He could have been their back for the next 10 years. Instead, they are still searching for a guy that can do it year after year.

Xempt
08-24-2005, 02:24 PM
...

Ok, let's take away half our offensive line, injure the rest, and put you back there.

Go rush for 1500 yards. :rolleyes:

HAHAHA funny

Biggie
08-24-2005, 02:27 PM
HAHAHA funny
Actually, I was talking to Skinznut. ;)

Xempt
08-24-2005, 02:30 PM
Actually, I was talking to Skinznut. ;)

yeah but it was still funny

anyways, denver is a graveyard for running backs. look at all the backs they have get injured, especially last season(bell, griffin, anderson, etc)

portis was lucky to get out of denver alive

wave6ten
08-24-2005, 02:32 PM
Say what you want about the system or whatever. All I know is that in 03 against the Chiefs I saw Portis play the best game I have ever seen out of a running back.

22 carries, 218 yds, 5 tds, 2 recs, 36 yds, 9.9ypc

He showed every skill a running back could have in that game.

redskinz#1fan
08-24-2005, 02:38 PM
Jamal Lewis did it and so did LT did for the Chargers. Everyone makes exscuses, but the fact is Portis cannot break a tackel to save his life.

Stop hating on the man! He had a weak o-line last year & no passing game and still rushed for over 1300 yards! There is no way in hell that you are deaf & blind, so please look at his numbers or listen to what people are trying to tell you here (please pick one or the other, that way you will finally get it)! When is the last time that you rushed for anywhere near 1300 yards?

You also said that Portis can't break tackles. You need to ask yourself, what has the dope man done sold me! I saw plenty of games last year where he smashed folks to get some extra yards. How the hell else could he have gotten the yards that he did? He was being hit in the backfield almost every play last year, so how did he manage to get positive yards? Let me take a wild guess! By breaking tackles, maybe!!

Are you sure that you are a skins fan? I think we need to order a blood test on you & wait for the results before we answer that one. :banghead:

Xempt
08-24-2005, 02:40 PM
i hope atleast to see the skins get 5 TDs a game this season in some games, much less out of one person

skinsdude
08-24-2005, 02:48 PM
Didn't Dayne tear it up last preseason also?

Judgements should be withheld until Portis plays w/ at least the threat of a passing game.

Excellent point. When the defense knows that you are going to run on nearly every play it's difficult for any RB to get yards especially in a one man backfield.

whitskins
08-24-2005, 02:59 PM
Jamal Lewis did it and so did LT did for the Chargers. Everyone makes exscuses, but the fact is Portis cannot break a tackel to save his life.

Hahaha, yeah and LT ran for 3.9 yards per carry last year on an offense with a Pro Bowl QB and TE, Portis ran for 3.8 yards per carry on the 29th ranked offense in the league with poor QB, O-line, and WRs and still got over 1300 yards. But he sucks... Sure.

In my opinion you can't even argue this. It's pointless. Portis played behind one of the most putrid offenses we've ever seen and if it were not for one late season injury he WOULD HAVE SET THE REDSKINS ALL TIME SINGLE SEASON RUSHING RECORD. Yet he's a system back? I'm sorry, but no. Not even close. Portis needs some help, just like every running back out there does, but simply because the guy did not gain 1500 yards playing 11 on 1 does not make him a system back.

I can't believe this is even up for debate to be honest. If Portis is a system back then let's just get Trung Candidate back here, apparently some people wouldn't even notice.

bwparker
08-24-2005, 03:02 PM
Jamal Lewis did it and so did LT did for the Chargers. Everyone makes exscuses, but the fact is Portis cannot break a tackel to save his life.
I know you've taken alot of flak already from the board, so won't go personal. All I gotta say is watch last years Bears game. Portis CAN break tackles.

But that doesn't matter Portis doesn't have to break tackles, he is a very typical speed-type back. His strengths come from being elusive and not letting the defense get a hold on him. ALOT of backs are like this, its not a weakness its a strength. Bulldozer style backs tend to wear down as the season progress, speed backs can stay fresh because they take less of a beating. They are two different styles and a RB can succeed with either. Plus 3.8 ypc was a result of Portis being brought DOWN by a system. I don't think any back could have done much better. As Gibbs said himself, those were pretty much the same number Riggo turned out in his best seasons. And Riggo is considered one of our best backs ever. An updated system will allow Portis to produce more modern-style numbers.

A great back doesn't mean that he can get 5 ypc all by himself. Just like the passing game, the running game is a team wide effort. Portis has the talent to get pretty much asmany yards as any other back in any given system. Thats talent.

akhhorus
08-24-2005, 03:04 PM
I know you've taken alot of flak already from the board, so won't go personal. All I gotta say is watch last years Bears game. Portis CAN break tackles.

Yeah, ask Urlacher. Portis made him look real bad in that game.

dj_stouty
08-24-2005, 03:04 PM
Jamal Lewis did it and so did LT did for the Chargers. Everyone makes exscuses, but the fact is Portis cannot break a tackel to save his life.

Do you watch the games...or only look at the box scores on Monday morning?

bwparker
08-24-2005, 03:04 PM
Plus Portis is probably the best open field running back in the league. He isn't the BEST grinder out there, but if we can get him to that second level, he'll be gone. Most backs don't have that kind of vision, elusiveness and speed. That doesn't come from the system, thats all Clinton.

dj_stouty
08-24-2005, 03:18 PM
I think people forget just how special 1,315 rushing yards is in the NFL...

Take a look...

Curtis Martin only has 3 seasons out of an illustrious 10 year career in which he surpassed 1,315 yards.

Ladanian Tomlinson, arguably the best RB in the league...had twenty more yards than Portis did last year.

Tony Dorsett ran in the low 1,300s for three seasons...and he only had one season over 1,350 yards.

Marcus Allen has only one season with more than 1,300 yards.

Franco Harris (8th all time for rushing attempts) never even scratched 1,300 yards.

Thurman Thomas ironically had 1,315 yard in the 1993 season he led his team to a super bowl.

Marshall Faulk, one of the best running backs over the last 10 years, NEVER had a season higher than 1,382 yards rushing.

wave6ten
08-24-2005, 03:30 PM
I think people forget just how special 1,315 rushing yards is in the NFL...

Take a look...

Curtis Martin only has 3 seasons out of an illustrious 10 year career in which he surpassed 1,315 yards.

Ladanian Tomlinson, arguably the best RB in the league...had twenty more yards than Portis did last year.

Tony Dorsett ran in the low 1,300s for three seasons...and he only had one season over 1,350 yards.

Marcus Allen has only one season with more than 1,300 yards.

Franco Harris (8th all time for rushing attempts) never even scratched 1,300 yards.

Thurman Thomas ironically had 1,315 yard in the 1993 season he led his team to a super bowl.

Marshall Faulk, one of the best running backs over the last 10 years, NEVER had a season higher than 1,382 yards rushing.

Nice bit of research.....can you say future hall of famer.

Also where did the Clinton basher run off to.

Biggie
08-24-2005, 04:03 PM
Nice bit of research.....can you say future hall of famer.

Also where did the Clinton basher run off to.

Off to find those who don't know the falsehood in his words.

And yeah, I think if Clinton manages to break some records (especially the Skins single-season rushing), and has a long enough career, he could be a shoe-in for the Hall of Fame. Taking us to a few Super Bowls wouldn't hurt either. :rolleyes:

Kanman21
08-24-2005, 04:18 PM
he definatley escapes the "Bronco System" issue because he put up 1300 yards in a horrible offense. Thats pure talent if I ever saw it.

Blind-sided
08-24-2005, 06:16 PM
While there are backs that thrive in Denver's system simply because it's Denver, Portis is not one of them. He earned his reputation, and still had a very good season last year. 1300 yards isn't a downyear for very many backs. He is the real deal


Well said i agree, (The real deal)

ihatedallas
08-24-2005, 06:16 PM
Jamal Lewis also has Johnathan Ogden, and got to play the browns and bengals twice that year...

Portis is not a system back, he had 20 yards less then LT and .1 ypc less...so this arguwement is pointless...

firehawk157
08-24-2005, 07:02 PM
Portis' success in Denver was a happy confluence of great talent married to a great system.

And that sentence was a concurrent affluence of the subcontext for versa lit... You know, you sound like a scene from the Matrix 2 or 3 with too much talking.
I agree though, I think Portis is a great back but Denver's system definitely didn't hurt his stats. I think he'll have a 1500 yard season this time around though. As long as PR works out for us...

Skinzsnut
08-24-2005, 07:13 PM
...

Ok, let's take away half our offensive line, injure the rest, and put you back there.

Go rush for 1500 yards. :rolleyes:
I am not a Football player getting paid millions of dollars now am I.

Skinzsnut
08-24-2005, 07:21 PM
Porits is clearly a system player. YOu and I know statistics can be misleading. Portis had great games against really crappy teams like Giants, Bears, Tampa Bay. But were was he against Philly, Pittsburg, Baltimore, the good teams he sucked. That 1300 or whatever he rushed for is misleading as hell. To compare Portis to LT is a joke. If you don't believe me go ask just any anaylist or if u know a coach go ask him. They will all say LT is a better all around back. He couldn't even produce against Cleveland, you don't need a passing game to run all over Cleveland.

ihatedallas
08-24-2005, 07:23 PM
Porits is clearly a system player. YOu and I know statistics can be misleading. Portis had great games against really crappy teams like Giants, Bears, Tampa Bay. But were was he against Philly, Pittsburg, Baltimore, the good teams he sucked. That 1300 or whatever he rushed for is misleading as hell. To compare Portis to LT is a joke. If you don't believe me go ask just any anaylist or if u know a coach go ask him. They will all say LT is a better all around back. He couldn't even produce against Cleveland, you don't need a passing game to run all over Cleveland.

Either way hes a top 10 back maybe top 5...and if you dont belive that please state 10 backs better then him...

FanFromArizona
08-24-2005, 07:29 PM
CP has a line to protect him, open up wholes, and speedsters to protect the run-game. He will NOT have 8 men stacking the box like he did last year, an Oline that will open up holes to run through, and 2 other running backs to spread the wear-and-tear of the rigors of the regular season.

His numbers from last year will PALE in comparison to what he does this year, can't wait for Mr. :mfast: to go flying past defenders for a 56-yard opening hand-off for TD! :banger:

ihatedallas
08-24-2005, 07:33 PM
Can you name one back that isnt the product of a good oline? Most backs are only great becuase of there situation on the team..There are only a few backs I think you could pick up and drop them anywhere in the NFL and they would still be jjust as good as they are on there current teams...LT and Alexander...LT is a magical player that did it even when SD was in shambles.......Alexander has a pretty good line as it is anyway...Ahman Green, Priest Holmes, and Jamal lewis all completely benefiet off there Line. So how you can say he is a system back when he almost posted the same numbers as in Denver, and was thrown into a completely new team and completely new style of offense, is beyond me...

X-Factor13
08-24-2005, 07:34 PM
honestly i don't understand why this is even a forum. It's so clear to me and many other people that portis is an extremely gifted back. After three years, he is on track to becoming one of the greatest running backs in the history of football. And after 12 or so years, he will be. You can't deny someone when they are that good. It's that simple.

akhhorus
08-24-2005, 07:36 PM
Porits is clearly a system player. YOu and I know statistics can be misleading. Portis had great games against really crappy teams like Giants, Bears, Tampa Bay. But were was he against Philly, Pittsburg, Baltimore, the good teams he sucked. That 1300 or whatever he rushed for is misleading as hell. To compare Portis to LT is a joke. If you don't believe me go ask just any anaylist or if u know a coach go ask him. They will all say LT is a better all around back. He couldn't even produce against Cleveland, you don't need a passing game to run all over Cleveland.

Please answer these questions:
1-How come he is the only Denver RB to leave the "Denver system" and do anything? 1300 yards is a career year for just about any RB in the league.
2-You point to games like Cleveland, Baltimore, Philly and Pittsburgh as examples that he "sucked". In those games, since you obviously didn't watch them, Gibbs stopped running the ball early and Portis didn't have the carries he could have had. Dallas had a decent run defense and Portis had 90 yards against them.
3-LT had 3 less carries, 20 more yards and a ypc average .1 better than Portis. He did also have a QB, an effective oline and an offense that moved the ball much better. What's his excuse for his failure? LT might be a better all around back(he has 153 catches in the last two seasons), but Portis is the better pure running back.

Portis surely benefited from the "Denver system", but Olandis Gary failed outside of the "system", Ruben Droughns can't beat out William Green and Lee Suggs for the starting job on the browns, and Mike Anderson couldn't start elsewhere in the league. Portis had a very good 2004 despite having a system not tailored for his strengths, an inconsistant Oline and an offense that sucked. It is ridiculous to say that Portis is strictly a system back just because he had what would have been a good year for any other good RB in the NFL. It is stunning for you to just look at his ypc average and ignore the fact that he had 1300 yards rushing.

GoDannyBoy
08-24-2005, 07:37 PM
I have to say this is an amusing thread. Portis got robbed last year! We all got robbed. Jansen going down was the worst injury we could have taken. Portis would have easily gotten 1500 last year with Jansen and the rest of the line would have played better as well.

System back? Please!

dj_stouty
08-24-2005, 09:19 PM
Porits is clearly a system player. YOu and I know statistics can be misleading. Portis had great games against really crappy teams like Giants, Bears, Tampa Bay. But were was he against Philly, Pittsburg, Baltimore, the good teams he sucked. That 1300 or whatever he rushed for is misleading as hell. To compare Portis to LT is a joke. If you don't believe me go ask just any anaylist or if u know a coach go ask him. They will all say LT is a better all around back. He couldn't even produce against Cleveland, you don't need a passing game to run all over Cleveland.

Tampa has a crappy Defense? That is news to me...

Once again...I think you should start watching the games instead of reading the box scores on Monday morning. You may learn a thing or two.

skins111111
08-24-2005, 09:23 PM
a good system definatly helps....it just so happens we have one
CP= 2000 all purpose yards this season:)

ihatedallas
08-24-2005, 09:24 PM
Tampa has a crappy Defense? That is news to me...

Once again...I think you should start watching the games instead of reading the box scores on Monday morning. You may learn a thing or two.

either are the bears... Lovie smith +Urlacher + Mike brown + Tommie Haris = not bad

FanFromArizona
08-24-2005, 09:29 PM
I have to say this is an amusing thread. Portis got robbed last year! We all got robbed.

Yeah, we are GETTING ROBBED right now that this still is a thread and we are debating WHY CLINTON IS SUCH AN EXCEPTIONAL PLAYER - Talent or System? Personally I don't care, he still put up GREAT numbers last year in adverse conditions and will do even more this year with an improved situation . Let's put an end to the debate and just let Clinton's play do the talking.
'Nuff said. :Peace: and out.

redskin_rich
08-24-2005, 09:38 PM
I guess this should have been a poll but then again, is anyone other than skinznut argueing?

Portis is a stud, plain and simple. I could go on but others have already said everything.

Barring injury, I am fully expecting a 1400-1500 yd season, with a more respectable 4.2 yd avg and 10 TD's.

fent
08-24-2005, 09:42 PM
He couldn't even produce against Cleveland, you don't need a passing game to run all over Cleveland.

for the record, against cleveland, the previous season's leading rusher, one jamal lewis, put up 57 yards for a 2.9 average and 81 yards for 3.7 ypc average. portis put up 58 for 2.9 average in one game. portis wasn't the only one with problems against cleveland. it's impossible to make a ruling on a season based on one game...there were people making similar arguments about portis' first game last year and how it really was a bad game because if you took away the first long TD run, he had a crappy game. when it came down to it, he made that run and the fact that people want to play chicken little can't take that run away or shrink his stats. you can't assess a season based on one game. how many people playing fantasy picked up chad morton after week one a couple years ago and quickly realized that one good game does not a good player make? the same is true in reverse. yes, his ypc was down, but he still put up 1300 friggin yards.

fent
08-24-2005, 09:44 PM
either are the bears... Lovie smith +Urlacher + Mike brown + Tommie Haris = not bad

don't forget ogunleye and alex brown

skins74
08-24-2005, 09:46 PM
Come on now................

PigSkin724
08-24-2005, 09:54 PM
:rolleyes: He's a complete system back.

ihatedallas
08-24-2005, 10:03 PM
don't forget ogunleye and alex brown

ho yea, and i forgot lance briggs...

Biggie
08-24-2005, 10:29 PM
"Guys, I think we're forgetting something here. I mean, Portis is a complete system back and a failure in the NFL! I mean, if you take away all his carries, he had 0 yards. Yes, 0 yards! In Denver, any back without any carries had at least 1,000, as Portis did, and since we're all Dallas fans in disguise, we need to do everything we can to make Portis look bad because we can't stand not having him instead of Julius Jones."

The entire anti-Portis argument in this thread, summed up in one post.

CowboyKilla
08-25-2005, 05:42 AM
Talent man, are you crazy? Lol

dukeuch
08-26-2005, 06:52 AM
You know, I actually like Portis and think he is pretty good. I guess all I am trying to point out is that you can take great stats off of one team, but that does not mean they are going to show up on another. When we got Portis, a lot of folks were all excited, assuming we were going to get production like we saw of him in Denver. It just does not work that way, and as valuable as Portis is, he will never repeat those numbers. Total yards is very important, and YPC may not be the be all and end all, but that 5.5 was eye-popping, worthy of recognition as a measure of superstardom, an important factor in how much we pay him, and in my opinion, a stat he will never again approach.

smoak
08-26-2005, 07:15 AM
It isn't a "one or the other" situation. Portis is a good back who was helped by playing in Denver.

28thegreat
08-26-2005, 08:14 AM
You know, I actually like Portis and think he is pretty good. I guess all I am trying to point out is that you can take great stats off of one team, but that does not mean they are going to show up on another. When we got Portis, a lot of folks were all excited, assuming we were going to get production like we saw of him in Denver. It just does not work that way, and as valuable as Portis is, he will never repeat those numbers. Total yards is very important, and YPC may not be the be all and end all, but that 5.5 was eye-popping, worthy of recognition as a measure of superstardom, an important factor in how much we pay him, and in my opinion, a stat he will never again approach.
Wish I had your crystal ball, there, dukeuch. How you can possibly make this assumption from one year...especially a year like last year with a new coach, new system, and crazy injuries...I just don't get it. Look ya'll...the season is here. Time to quit all the rampant speculation and let these guys play the game. I for one am anxious to see tonight's game and hope that CP gets a few more carries. But if he doesn't, who cares. Preseason is for the coaches to test there new players, the players to find a rythym with each other, and the owners to make a few extra bucks in their overpriced stadiums. It is definitely not for the fans. That starts when the real thing starts on Sept. 11. Dukeuch, I think come about November, when CP has amassed over 1000 amazing yards of rushing yardage, you'll be trading that Kmart crystal ball in on a new and improved model.

Warpath23
08-26-2005, 08:37 AM
[QUOTE=dukeuch]Anyone notice how Ron Dayne is tearing it up for the Broncos? Admittedly it is only per-season, but does this give any credence to the notion that Portis will never return to the lofty heights he attained in Denver?[/QUO

Uuh? He rushed for 1300 plus last season man...In a new system

Denver is a system & Wash.....1300 plus

Its talent

redskinz#1fan
08-26-2005, 08:54 AM
I think people forget just how special 1,315 rushing yards is in the NFL...

Take a look...

Curtis Martin only has 3 seasons out of an illustrious 10 year career in which he surpassed 1,315 yards.

Ladanian Tomlinson, arguably the best RB in the league...had twenty more yards than Portis did last year.

Tony Dorsett ran in the low 1,300s for three seasons...and he only had one season over 1,350 yards.

Marcus Allen has only one season with more than 1,300 yards.

Franco Harris (8th all time for rushing attempts) never even scratched 1,300 yards.

Thurman Thomas ironically had 1,315 yard in the 1993 season he led his team to a super bowl.

Marshall Faulk, one of the best running backs over the last 10 years, NEVER had a season higher than 1,382 yards rushing.

That pretty much says it all! Good job & very good research.