On the Blog!! Vision Quest: A Reaction to the Final Cuts

[CNYSkinFan]

I have written a quick article reacting to the final cuts and making a final prediction on who may be placed on the Practice Squad. I also anlyze the Redskins lack of production in late round picks.

You can read the article HERE (http://www.hailredskins.com/blog/index.php?p=126)

And discuss it in this thread.

[GibbsRules!]

Great as usual CNYSkin...who's our holder gonna be on FGs now with Mohr gone?

[redskin_rich]

First off, let me commend you for writing such a thorough analysis in such short time :awesomewo Awesome work CNY!

I don't see it as such a gamble with cutting McCune since he is so far behind NFL speed, I doubt anybody would have any use for him outside of Special Teams.
Keasey, on the other hand, has taken notice, IMO. He has shown the instincts to be a contributor immediately.

[Skinz4lyfe]

Great as usual CNYSkin...who's our holder gonna be on FGs now with Mohr gone?

Its probably gonna be Groom. Now, I truly believe I would be a good idea to pick up Ben Nowland off the waiver wire. I liked him and I know you did too CNY.

[Ibleedburgundy]

great work CNY. I particularly enjoyed the TE/H-back segment.

One huge glaring red flag: recievers. Brown can't catch. Jacobs can't play. That leaves our three good guys. Thrash will make a good #3. People underestimate his speed but if you've seen him in the gunner role, he tends to fly past defenders. His top speed is outstanding. What are we going to do if one or more of them goes down? Santana Moss is not the most durable guy. Jacobs right now is the least durable guy in the NFL. 1 injury for every 2.5 gametime snaps (my exaggeration). While I agree that none of the guys we had in camp were the answer, we're walking a tight rope here.

[CNYSkinFan]

First off, let me commend you for writing such a thorough analysis in such short time :awesomewo Awesome work CNY!

I don't see it as such a gamble with cutting McCune since he is so far behind NFL speed, I doubt anybody would have any use for him outside of Special Teams.
Keasey, on the other hand, has taken notice, IMO. He has shown the instincts to be a contributor immediately.

Maybe...I predict McCune will go to PS but at 26 it is hard to justify keeping him for too much longer.

Thanks for the compliment, my keybopard has been going OT since 6 pm.

[ihatedallas]

Great stuff! Is Johnson still eligible? He was drafted in '03 right? I hope he is on the practice squad, he looked great in preseason...

[CNYSkinFan]

Its probably gonna be Groom. Now, I truly believe I would be a good idea to pick up Ben Nowland off the waiver wire. I liked him and I know you did too CNY.

I do like Nowland, but the coaches did not. And with 3 guys who can play C I doubt we get him back.

Groom is the holder but I miss knowing Tupa was back there. Tupa a former QB could pass the ball on a fake fg or fake punt. That is going to be missed.

[CapitalDefense]

Excellent

I am like you with the Killings over Warner and also the draft picks.

[CNYSkinFan]

Great stuff! Is Johnson still eligible? He was drafted in '03 right? I hope he is on the practice squad, he looked great in preseason...

Well he was on the non football injuryt list for '03....I don't know how that effects his ps eligibility. John Keim over at Warpath insiders also thinks he has eligibility left as they forecasted him on PS with their last roster prediction, I thought he would be on the final roster though sioo I never really investigated it.

[frankez99]

I have written a quick article reacting to the final cuts and making a final prediction on who may be placed on the Practice Squad. I also anlyze the Redskins lack of production in late round picks.

You can read the article HERE (http://www.hailredskins.com/blog/index.php?p=126)

And discuss it in this thread.

I love reading your articles Crosby Nash Young and Stills kinfan? :rolleyes:

Just kidding... :)

But your articles are well thought out and well worth reading...

I'm definately glad your here! Keep up the AWESOME work!

[whitskins]

great work CNY. I particularly enjoyed the TE/H-back segment.

One huge glaring red flag: recievers. Brown can't catch. Jacobs can't play. That leaves our three good guys. Thrash will make a good #3. People underestimate his speed but if you've seen him in the gunner role, he tends to fly past defenders. His top speed is outstanding. What are we going to do if one or more of them goes down? Santana Moss is not the most durable guy. Jacobs right now is the least durable guy in the NFL. 1 injury for every 2.5 gametime snaps (my exaggeration). While I agree that none of the guys we had in camp were the answer, we're walking a tight rope here.

Jacobs appears very close to returning, I think I may have even heard this week. He's getting better, this doesn't appear to be a seriously debilitating injury. And I still feel that when he gets on the field he is going to make his presence felt.

Last year at this time many on this board were clamoring to cut Ladell Betts because of his minor injury history. Then when he was healthy he had a strong year and now seems poised to play a major role on this team. I imagine TJ has a similar year this year, by mid-season we'll thank the Lord we didn't cut a guy over some hard luck, yet minor, injuries.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

good job cny....i like your PS. i hope our guys clear waivers though. its always a worrisome time....

[JWsleep]

Great piece, CNYSkinsfan!

Just wondering about the low draft pick thing--how well do other teams do with this? We have had very few picks in the late rounds in the last couple of years, so it's not so surprising that we keep fewer, maybe. I just don't know. Also, with free agency, isn't the draft somewhat less important now? And finally, we seem to like "undrafted" types--is that becuase our low picks suck, or because we find really good undrafted guys? Thanks again!

[CNYSkinFan]

I love reading your articles Crosby Nash Young and Stills kinfan? :rolleyes:

Just kidding... :)

But your articles are well thought out and well worth reading...

I'm definately glad your here! Keep up the AWESOME work!

Thank you...and though I like Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young (espescially Carry On) that is not my moniker. Though you have to respect David Crosby Any man tht can get Mellissa Etheridge pregnant, whether or not it was ....never mind I am pre-emptively censoring myself.

CNY stands for Central New York. And no, skinfan is not a pornor reference...although....nope censoring myself again.

And I love being on hR, byt the fan for the fan. I doubt you will see other sites bought out by the Redskins criticizing any of the cuts made last week.

[CNYSkinFan]

Jacobs appears very close to returning, I think I may have even heard this week. He's getting better, this doesn't appear to be a seriously debilitating injury. And I still feel that when he gets on the field he is going to make his presence felt.

Last year at this time many on this board were clamoring to cut Ladell Betts because of his minor injury history. Then when he was healthy he had a strong year and now seems poised to play a major role on this team. I imagine TJ has a similar year this year, by mid-season we'll thank the Lord we didn't cut a guy over some hard luck, yet minor, injuries.


Excellent point about Betts Whitskins!!! Wish I thought about it.

I never understood any of the hype nor the panic around Taylor Jacobs. When everyone was jumping up and down predicting pro-boowl type of year I didn't really think he would start, maybe be a #3. When he got hurt many of the same people called for him to be cut, which is just silly as well.

Jacobs will be worked in against Dallas and be our #3 by the end of the bye week IMHO.

[CNYSkinFan]

Great piece, CNYSkinsfan!

Just wondering about the low draft pick thing--how well do other teams do with this? We have had very few picks in the late rounds in the last couple of years, so it's not so surprising that we keep fewer, maybe. I just don't know. Also, with free agency, isn't the draft somewhat less important now? And finally, we seem to like "undrafted" types--is that becuase our low picks suck, or because we find really good undrafted guys? Thanks again!

A very interesting question and definitely one that I want to explore in the off season (no time during the regular season). It would make agood pre-draft article and it is on my list.

Hwoever something to ponder, since 200 The Redskins have had 10 picks in the top 2 rounds of the draft and 8 are on this roster. A cool 80% and considering the two picks not on the team are Smoot and Gardner in the 201 draft which really Schottenheimer was in control of, someone coulkd say Snyder/Cerrato are perfect in the first day .

But on the second day picks, rounds 3-7 we have had 26 picks, only 6 are on the team, and that is a measely 23%. Even if you take out the 3 misses in '01 from Schotty you are still at 26%. And if you just look at the last two years, we have had 7 picks only 3 making the roster this year.

I don't know the details of other teams but I would imagine we are probably in the lower third. I will do the math when the draft comes around next year sometime. Who knows maybe everyone has the same rate.

[Axegrinder]

Nice work! :beer:
I can't disagree with any of this.

[GoDannyBoy]

Maybe Phillys strategy of of having thirteen picks helps. When you are lucky to have 3 picks you need to make them count.

Draft management is a science and drafting players is only part of the equation.

[Patrick]

Nice job CNY

The late round pick percentage is not all that concerning when you've got as many FA that can fill in nicely. Sure it be nice if we could keep a few more but anything after the third round is a gamble pick IMO. Fact is, if a player was that good, he wouldn't be picked in rounds 4-7. You take a chance and hope for the best. .......... NOW on the flip side of that - VC is terrible at assessing talent in late rounds AND Danny really has no glue. Makes you wonder if they even read the scouting reports.

Now as far as the recent cuts - no surprises to me. Everyone (including myself) had McCune as a sure lock BUT the early reports coming out of training camp pretty much tell his story. He was overwhemed with the pro game and didn't have a clue. PS - maybe but why? At 26, he'll need a few more years to develop and by 28/29 - that's a little too late (again IMO).

Groom, great story and hope he sticks with us for many years go come.

Just my 2 cents worth though.

[ppease]

My thoughts regarding draft picks are that only the top couple of picks are viewed as definite improvement for the team; later round picks are seen as possibly talented enough to replace existing NFL players.

I do not think the fact that our later round picks failed to make the roster says much about the capability of our scouts to pick-out some gems among the vast number of college players left after the first couple rounds have skimmed the cream off the top.

My outlook is that if many late round picks make the team it either means that the team did not have quality depth last year or that the team is in a rebuilding mode where a team is getting rid of older, higher priced players.

I suggest there is a very fine line, talent wise, between last years second string players and this years later round draft picks.

[Blind-sided]

Wow , i thought Mc cune was gonna be the LB of Washingtons furture.

[CNYSkinFan]

Nice job CNY

The late round pick percentage is not all that concerning when you've got as many FA that can fill in nicely. Sure it be nice if we could keep a few more but anything after the third round is a gamble pick IMO. Fact is, if a player was that good, he wouldn't be picked in rounds 4-7. You take a chance and hope for the best. .......... NOW on the flip side of that - VC is terrible at assessing talent in late rounds AND Danny really has no glue. Makes you wonder if they even read the scouting reports.

Now as far as the recent cuts - no surprises to me. Everyone (including myself) had McCune as a sure lock BUT the early reports coming out of training camp pretty much tell his story. He was overwhemed with the pro game and didn't have a clue. PS - maybe but why? At 26, he'll need a few more years to develop and by 28/29 - that's a little too late (again IMO).

Groom, great story and hope he sticks with us for many years go come.

Just my 2 cents worth though.

I love Groom, and your are right, great story for the young kid. Went into the camp with a long shot to make it and it happened.

McCune may be too old for the PS, but it would be a genuine waste not to have him bang around on there for awhile.

VC and Danny do some things right, cap management and first round talent evaluation. But over the last 5 years with 4 different HCs no real late round gems can be found. There is one constant in those years, Cerrato and Snyder. And that is a fact.

[Hr fan]

Great lead article, and really good comments. A few more. I thought Groom won the job with the successful hold for Hall in a real pressure situation against Baltimore. Mohr was and will be available if Groom falters, and now has some background in the 'Skins STs. Second I can't give too much credit to Danny and Vinnie for day 1 choices. If you draft as high as they have (in the top 15, with 3) in the top 10) you can buy draft mags at the supermarket and hit as high a percentage. On the other hand for the lower rounds maybe they should stick to the draft mags, which have a much higher percentage than our heroes. However, for the last two years the choices were Gibbs, albeit based on Vinnie's staff input. I really think they will regret passing on Chris Canty (UVA), who was available in the 6th. Third, a strategy of multiple picks for a position of need (o-line last year and someone who can score from inside the opponents 5 yard line this year) is a good one. Just review the Eagles and Patriots drafts. However, they use day 1 multiple picks. On day two they draft BAA. Finally, Gibbs has ALWAYS valued the FA route, and it has paid off by having the better FAs (rookie or second year men) preferring the 'Skins because they know their best roster chance is here.

Thanks to all commenters - I love this blog!

[PyroGenic]

I don't see how Betts could be trade bait for a 2nd or 3rd round pick when Shaun Alexander couldn't be traded for a 3rd rounder this past offseason.

[CNYSkinFan]

I don't see how Betts could be trade bait for a 2nd or 3rd round pick when Shaun Alexander couldn't be traded for a 3rd rounder this past offseason.

Alexander had a hefty price tag, Betts does not. Alexander is older as Betts is younger. The reason Alexander and Edge did not move is their high asking price coupled with their age for an NFL RB.

Maybe 2 and 3 is too high...but we could at least get the 4th back we lost.

[PyroGenic]

Alexander had a hefty price tag, Betts does not. Alexander is older as Betts is younger. The reason Alexander and Edge did not move is their high asking price coupled with their age for an NFL RB.

Maybe 2 and 3 is too high...but we could at least get the 4th back we lost.

I still don't agree. This is an RB that has had an injury plagued career, which looks VERY bad, especially for RBs. If rod gardner went away for a 7th, what makes you so sure that we would get anything from Betts?

[CNYSkinFan]

I still don't agree. This is an RB that has had an injury plagued career, which looks VERY bad, especially for RBs. If rod gardner went away for a 7th, what makes you so sure that we would get anything from Betts?

Well for one Rod under performed. I think BEtts had a very good year last year and will again this year.. And the reason Rod was so low was because everyone knew we would trade him or release him. We had no leverage.

I guess we will see next year.

[whitskins]

I still don't agree. This is an RB that has had an injury plagued career, which looks VERY bad, especially for RBs. If rod gardner went away for a 7th, what makes you so sure that we would get anything from Betts?

Big difference that you're forgetting, Gardner had a very high base salary for this year, I think b/t 2.5 and 3 mil, and also refused to sign a contract extension with any new team because he wanted to actually try this year and steal himself a fat new deal. Before that, talk of a 3rd rounder was very frequent, but when word got out that Gardner would not sign a new deal, he became essentially a high paid "rent-a-player" and his value plummeted.

Betts, I imagine, would sign a new deal if he went to a team that wanted him as a starter. I think a 4th would be the best we could get for him if he shows he's got some serious game, but he will have value that Rod did not due to Rod's salary number and refusal to extend his deal.

Also, I will just add that another reason Edge and Alexander saw so little interest in the trade market is not just their age, but also their wear and tear. The number of carries they have had and the hits they've absorbed make teams very weary about their prolonged productivity. Betts has had a few minor injuries, but has taken a very light beating compared to those two guys, that will also work in his favor value wise.

[Biggie]

Now as far as the recent cuts - no surprises to me. Everyone (including myself) had McCune as a sure lock BUT the early reports coming out of training camp pretty much tell his story. He was overwhemed with the pro game and didn't have a clue. PS - maybe but why? At 26, he'll need a few more years to develop and by 28/29 - that's a little too late (again IMO).

Mike Barrow was a great linebacker at the age of 33. Besides, McCune won't have ten years of NFL pounding wearing him down, so he'll probably end up retiring older than the norm.

[redwolf1218]

Wow , i thought Mc cune was gonna be the LB of Washingtons furture.
he might still be the linebacker of the future. the practice squad will be a good deal for him, for the time being. he could always be promoted to the active roster later in the year if he shows he has learned the system adequately, and if there are any injuries that require an extra linebacker on the roster. for now, he is a good insurance policy for the future.

why all this talk of trading Betts? he's good. we need him to back up Portis. i dont want Rock to be the primary backup. Betts is better.

[MWballer]

he might still be the linebacker of the future. the practice squad will be a good deal for him, for the time being. he could always be promoted to the active roster later in the year if he shows he has learned the system adequately, and if there are any injuries that require an extra linebacker on the roster. for now, he is a good insurance policy for the future.

why all this talk of trading Betts? he's good. we need him to back up Portis. i dont want Rock to be the primary backup. Betts is better.

McCunne will spend some time in NFLE and he'll make the squad next year IMO. I dont think Rock will back up Betts if we trade him i think Broughton would and that could be what we groom him to do this year. Betts I like and would love him to stay a Redskin. But he wants to be a starting RB and that will never happen hear so when his contract is up he likely wont resign so that he can pursue his dream so lets get something for him while we can.

[CNYSkinFan]

he might still be the linebacker of the future. the practice squad will be a good deal for him, for the time being. he could always be promoted to the active roster later in the year if he shows he has learned the system adequately, and if there are any injuries that require an extra linebacker on the roster. for now, he is a good insurance policy for the future.

why all this talk of trading Betts? he's good. we need him to back up Portis. i dont want Rock to be the primary backup. Betts is better.

Betts is better and relax I am not saying we trade him this year. But I believe that eventually Betts is good enough to start in this league, and Betts sure as hell believes it as well. Next year is Betts contract year and I doubt he will resign with the Redskins. He will shop himself around after the 2006 season because it will be his last chance to start.

My thing is with next year's salary cap situation trading Betts makes sense and it will be the right tiome to do it. We get a 2nd or 3rd or even 4th round pick and with Nemo and Rock backing up Portis espescially having this year under their belt. It is a hypothetical but I think realistic.

But for this year our roster is set.

[Cruising270]

I agree that Betts will be gone too :cry:

He has really developed nicely over the last few seasons and definitly earned himself some attention with his performance against the Vikes last season and all 4 games this preseason. I can promise we will see more of him this season sharing some of Portis' load. Does anyone remember Rudy Johnson's performance on his final year of contract? Betts knows this is his chance in auditioning for a starting job so he's going to be making the best out of every carry.

[CNYSkinFan]

I agree that Betts will be gone too :cry:

He has really developed nicely over the last few seasons and definitly earned himself some attention with his performance against the Vikes last season and all 4 games this preseason. I can promise we will see more of him this season sharing some of Portis' load. Does anyone remember Rudy Johnson's performance on his final year of contract? Betts knows this is his chance in auditioning for a starting job so he's going to be making the best out of every carry.

Just to be clear. Betts contract year is NEXT year, not this year. But that is why we trade him after this season. A small salary cap hit and a few high draft picks not to mention saving .5 million on the cap (not much but since other teams would be interested in getting a great RB for .5million cap hit you would be lining up the prospects.

[new girl on the bloc]

A very interesting question and definitely one that I want to explore in the off season (no time during the regular season). It would make agood pre-draft article and it is on my list.

Hwoever something to ponder, since 200 The Redskins have had 10 picks in the top 2 rounds of the draft and 8 are on this roster. A cool 80% and considering the two picks not on the team are Smoot and Gardner in the 201 draft which really Schottenheimer was in control of, someone coulkd say Snyder/Cerrato are perfect in the first day .

But on the second day picks, rounds 3-7 we have had 26 picks, only 6 are on the team, and that is a measely 23%. Even if you take out the 3 misses in '01 from Schotty you are still at 26%. And if you just look at the last two years, we have had 7 picks only 3 making the roster this year.

I don't know the details of other teams but I would imagine we are probably in the lower third. I will do the math when the draft comes around next year sometime. Who knows maybe everyone has the same rate.
Some think one of the reasons for New England's success is their late round draft picks. I did a quick count of the percentage of their draft picks from 2000 -2005 on the current roster for comparison purposes (including IR). Since 2000, 11 of their 12 first and second round picks are still on their roster (92%) and 14 out of 39 of the later rounds (36%). But most of the cuts are from 2000 and 2001, if you look at 2003-2005, the percentages are much higher 100% of the 1st and 2nd round and 55% of the later rounds.

[HanburgerBum]

Great stuff CNY. I, too, am dismayed by the Skins record of 2nd day draftees. As you said, low rounders provide the vital function of cheap depth. The only silver lining I can see from all these draft choices being cut is that the Redskins coach staff has now proven to the world that it means what it says. The coaches have repeatedly declared that they are not influenced by draft positions, only by whether a player can play. As someone pointed out, this may land the Skins more free agent prospects in the future because the free agents know that they would get a fair shake here.

While I know Rock Cartwright is a good story, I still don't understand his presence on the roster. He wouldn't do any running unless two, maybe three, RBs are injured. Further, he is not a particularly talented runner or receiver. And worst, and this really gets me, Rock is a horrible blocker. This makes him useless in pass protection.

I also don't understand keeping only 4 corners (with one of them being Jimoh!). Even if the Skins don't see 4 wideout sets, they will undoubtedly see many 3 wideout sets. This means Jimoh is only one injury away from seeing extensive CB action.

I think keeping Khari Campbell and Zak Keasey over McCune and Newberry is a good move. The risk that some other team may claim McCune, I feel, was a very small one. Not only was he overwhelmed by NFL football, he is also on the old side. As for Campbell or Keasey, I wouldn't be alarmed if either of them had to fill in tomorrow.

I, too, am totally baffled by the Cedric Killings scenario. Even if Noble's recovery is not total, Boschetti has had a good camp and can play. It seems that this spot should have gone to a 5th corner.

As for keeping Groom over Mohr, I think the coaches would have lost credibililty with the players if a punter as putrid as Mohr (he is no better than Kelly Goodburn; how did he hang around all these years?) made the team ahead of Andy.

[CNYSkinFan]

Great stuff CNY. I, too, am dismayed by the Skins record of 2nd day draftees. As you said, low rounders provide the vital function of cheap depth. The only silver lining I can see from all these draft choices being cut is that the Redskins coach staff has now proven to the world that it means what it says. The coaches have repeatedly declared that they are not influenced by draft positions, only by whether a player can play. As someone pointed out, this may land the Skins more free agent prospects in the future because the free agents know that they would get a fair shake here.

While I know Rock Cartwright is a good story, I still don't understand his presence on the roster. He wouldn't do any running unless two, maybe three, RBs are injured. Further, he is not a particularly talented runner or receiver. And worst, and this really gets me, Rock is a horrible blocker. This makes him useless in pass protection.

I also don't understand keeping only 4 corners (with one of them being Jimoh!). Even if the Skins don't see 4 wideout sets, they will undoubtedly see many 3 wideout sets. This means Jimoh is only one injury away from seeing extensive CB action.

I think keeping Khari Campbell and Zak Keasey over McCune and Newberry is a good move. The risk that some other team may claim McCune, I feel, was a very small one. Not only was he overwhelmed by NFL football, he is also on the old side. As for Campbell or Keasey, I wouldn't be alarmed if either of them had to fill in tomorrow.

I, too, am totally baffled by the Cedric Killings scenario. Even if Noble's recovery is not total, Boschetti has had a good camp and can play. It seems that this spot should have gone to a 5th corner.

As for keeping Groom over Mohr, I think the coaches would have lost credibililty with the players if a punter as putrid as Mohr (he is no better than Kelly Goodburn; how did he hang around all these years?) made the team ahead of Andy.

2 days later this is still one thing that totally baffles me. All I can think of is that somewhere out there they are loking for a fifth cb and they don't mind holding onto Cedric till they dump him.

Anyone got a line on a good CB still out there worthy of a roster spot?

[Biggie]

2 days later this is still one thing that totally baffles me. All I can think of is that somewhere out there they are loking for a fifth cb and they don't mind holding onto Cedric till they dump him.

Anyone got a line on a good CB still out there worthy of a roster spot?

Has Aaron Beasley signed with a team?