Arrington comments during the game [Merged]

[BigPlayJay]

The Fox guys just said that Lavar was going to be put on the punt team but he said he wouldn't go to the meetings if they did that. Lavar not playing. Is this just a bump in the road or the begining of the end for Lavar in DC?

[IowaSkinsFan]

Okay, I know we are going to want to talk about it after the game, so here is the thread.

During the game, just before the half, Lavar finally got on the field for a couple of plays. He quickly returned to the sidelines. The announcers saw it and started talking about some things Lavar apparently said before the game.

When asked why he isn't playing more, Lavar allegedly said that the coaches feel he doesn't fit into a lot of their packages.

1st WOW.

Then during the half, Howie Long said that the coache were thinking about putting Lavar on the punt team and Lavar supposedly said that he wouldn't go to those meetings.

2nd WOW.

Lavar got paid pretty nicely by the team two years ago, but that was before GW and company arrived on defense. The Redskins now have a very highly paid backup on defense. Of course that doesn't matter to GW and company, but this is certainly news.

We all know about Lavar's desire to freelance. GW doesn't tolerate that. What's going to happen?

DISCUSS.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Great minds think alike Jay.

Threads merged.

[Love the Truth]

Not buying it. The media has been trying to stir up stuff for the Redskins & Gibbs.

The Redskins are on the brink of going 3-0 and it is eating the media's hearts out that they cannot bash Gibbs & the Redskins. That everything he has done is working.

THE MEDIA IS FISHING for a soap opera on an undefeated team

[bgforever]

Not buying it. The media has been trying to stir up stuff for the Redskins & Gibbs.

The Redskins are on the brink of going 3-0 and it is eating the media's hearts out that they cannot bash Gibbs & the Redskins. That everything he has done is working.

THE MEDIA IS FISHING for a soap opera on an undefeated team

Exactly. They don't have the Skins in leading roles for later in the year, in programmming, they way they should to have good gains on ratiings. Its another Corporate Media VP who sits on his buns all day and tries to tell football fans who to like. So he convinces his LT's to go out and make it happen with a edgy story to gain attention to one side of the Skins, not the REAL story. Its a default attempt just like a Pastabelly thing, to make sure the ratings go to teams they favor more than the Skins.

That will change next season :)

[X-Factor13]

I hope we trade him. the fact is that right now he IS an EXTREMELY well paid back up and he is not getting on the field enough to earn his paycheck. Why don't we trade him to somebody else for a DE or something.

[GolfFreak]

I think they are taking it slow with him and working him in here and there. I don't see him getting traded (not even taking in the cap hit). I think LaVar is still a dominate player and just needs a chance to shine in this defense.

[chrisbcbu]

I dont care what happens! We are 3-0!!

Tho i feel he should be put as a DE to get more playing time, since he is better rushing the passer than coverage.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

if those comments are correct-i dont like it one bit. not one bit.....

[inevitable]

I think in order to "work someone in slow" they actually have to be on the field once or twice.

I didn't see Lavar at all today.

I did see Lemar Marshall get run over once, miss a tackle a few times, and do a good job on blitzes though. I still say he's undersized =\

[BigCountry]

I agree with coaching staff 100%. I said during the off-season that LaVar isn't living up to the hype and if not for that stupid extension we gave him would be expendable. If they won't even line him up at end on 3rd down situations something is obviously wrong. Right now Holdman, Washington and Marshall is the strongest trio of LB's we have and we should continue to go with it until Mr 60mil earns his playing time. Kudos to Williams for selecting the best players he has to put on the field.

[BigPlayJay]

Don't get me wrong, the only thing that matters is 3-0, but this could be a problem down the road. If they keep not playing Lavar he will cause trouble. That is a fact.

We can't get rid of him, because of the salary cap, so he's here for better or worse. It seems to me they would find a way to use the skill he has.

My theory is GW is trying to teach him to be a team player. I think we will see more of him later in the year.

[828791Redskins]

Greg Williams said they were bringing him along slow and when he's back to 100 percent they will have him on the field as much as they can.Who are you going to believe GW or the media.

[bgforever]

Greg Williams said they were bringing him along slow and when he's back to 100 percent they will have him on the field as much as they can.Who are you going to believe GW or the media.

Right On 838791Redskins! GW is da man! Arrington's just a tough tough player with a lot of pride, but face it, he needs to rest!

[RedskinsVision]

we needed him today. i don't see Holdman making a difference. we need 1 more playmaker. soon enough the coaching staff will switch them more often.

[CapitalDefense]

We are 3-0 without him playing very much, apparently he is not accepting his role that the coaches give him in certain packages. Overhyped, Overpaid and now a off field distraction.

Most of the talk this week, from all media outlets, will be all about Lavar and not the 3-0 Washington Redskins.

We are 3-0 and I cant play....well boo &*^%$#@ hoo Lavar:cry:

[CarMike]

For those who don't want to believe this, where was Lavar during the game? On the side line.

OMT, we, as Redskin fans, automatically assume that the media is trying to start something. I would agree with you guys except for one thing. Like I said earlier, Lavar was on the sidelines today....:whoknows:

[whitskins]

Maybe this becomes a problem, maybe it doesn't. But right now nothing can take away from my 3-0 buzz. Hail to 'em baby.

[golongdude]

After three games and four weeks into the season, he should be pretty much integrated. Something is up. This will get more discussion in the coming week - and should. He is too expensive and high-profile for such inactivity. This cannot continue - it isn't logical.

[syphy]

I just can't believe that a coach as good as Williams would say something like "Lavar Arrington doesn't fit in our scheme" Williams LOVES Sean Taylor because of his freakish athletic skills. Why would he not love the same qualities that are present in Arrington?

That's got to be a misquote or misunderstanding somewhere. That's a pretty idiotic statement to say that someone with that kind of athletic ability has no place in your scheme. Arrington's a vastly superior talent compared to Holdman.

[golongdude]

Talent and teachability are not the same thing. Not really sure if Lavar has the latter quality. A player has to be willing to adapt. All I know is the real reason will come out soon - it can't continue like this.

[Kope65]

All I know is thet last two years WITHOUT LaVar we have had a great D. If he plays and produces this year consistant w/ what he gets paid- keep him...if not..trade him out of the conference for draft picks. If he dosent buy into the skins the boot him to another team. This is easy IMHO

[RoanokeSkin]

We need playmakers who FIT OUR SYSTEM. If GW doesnt think that Lavar is one of those type guys, then I think we look to move him in the offseason.

[44Riggo]

I'm sure the GW doesn't like the fact that LA likes to freelance. I'm not sure how much of the health issue I buy...why would you put a guy on punt coverage yet he's not healthy enough for the regular D...doesn't make sense. I don't know why we don't use him as an edge rusher in a 2 point stance in obvious passing situations like KC used to do w. Derrick Thomas. The only way I see LA getting traded is if he gives back some bonus money to cushion the cap hit and the only team I see him doing that for is Pittsburg (he's a known Steelers fan); Pittsburg typically likes to home grow their guys so I wouldn't hold my breath on him going anywhere.

[Redskinfan28]

Lavar's time as an impact player and the face of the Redskins is over. He will be a role player for the rest of the season.

[CapitalDefense]

Trying to move Lavar Arrington and that HUGEcontract?


Who would take him??

Thats along ways off though and I am gonna enjoy 3-0

[RoanokeSkin]

Trying to move Lavar Arrington and that HUGEcontract?


Who would take him??

Thats along ways off though and I am gonna enjoy 3-0


With the talk of the large salary cap increase, I imagine that several teams would probably look at a player with his upside.

[OCSKINSFAN]

I'm thrilled we are 3-0. However, the reality is we have been lucky and could easily be 0-3. Holdman had 1 tackle today and I didn't hear his name mentioned or see him in on any plays. We have no pass rush from our front 4, and no takeaways on defense again. We need Lavar! Hopefully, whatever issues there are with him and the coaching staff will be worked out soon.

[Axegrinder]

I felt that we could've used him today.
He could have brought a pass rush and some intensity during the 2nd half.
I wouldn't write him off just yet.

[Redskinfan28]

With the talk of the large salary cap increase, I imagine that several teams would probably look at a player with his upside.

Lavar's got bad wheels. However, if he would learn to be more of a team player, he would play more.

[akhhorus]

Lavar's got bad wheels. However, if he would learn to be more of a team player, he would play more.

yeah, but someone will pony up picks and/or players for him, if you wanted to trade him. I still think you get him out there just to see how effective he is. If the defense could be even better with Lavar over Holdman, you'd be foolish to deal Lavar.

[LATrueRedskin]

This is really killing me. LaVar should be out there playing. He's too good of a player and too big of a contract to have him sitting on the sideline. Our defense is not producing turnovers, and LaVar could help that. If we don't use him as a linebacker, screw it: play him at DE. We need to unleash this guy on teams.

[Skinz4lyfe]

I'm divided on this. I don't wanna break up a good thing but I do feel Lavar could be the difference maker we need on Defense that would help cause turnovers. IMO, we sorely need somebody to help cause some turnovers. The bottom line is that I trust GW and whatever he says I'm gonna agree w/.

[CapitalDefense]

He doesn't like playing DE....maybe thats part of this problem

[Ibleedburgundy]

Lavar is not 100%. I've seen him walking around gingerly on the sideline. In the limited time he's had, RB's are turning the corner on him-no problem. They weren't able to do that back when Lavar had 4.48 speed. Right now he's more like a 4.84. I hope he gets healthy and has an impact later in the season but right now it looks like another botched surgery/recovery.

At the risk of the Redskins faithful hating me, I have to say: No linebacker is worth the kind of money he is making. Lavar is approximately 1/8 of our total salary cap space for the next 3 years (until they raise it). With our defense playing the way it has, obviously that money could have been better spent on the offense. Another WR would be nice right now, no offense to Patten but we could have had Buress or Jerry Porter, maybe even Randy Moss (the Vikings were asking for a "marquee" defensive player). But instead we got #56 riding the pine.

I'm a huge Lavar fan, but he's not what he once was. Maybe he'll make a come back but it doesn't look good at this point.

[Redskinfan28]

yeah, but someone will pony up picks and/or players for him, if you wanted to trade him. I still think you get him out there just to see how effective he is. If the defense could be even better with Lavar over Holdman, you'd be foolish to deal Lavar.

I agree, but I'm kind of tired of Lavar. He doesn't want to play ST b/c he considers himself too good. That bothers me.

[Ibleedburgundy]

He doesn't like playing DE....maybe thats part of this problem


That's part of the problem. It doesn't matter what Lavar "likes" doing. He should do what ever GW tells him to do and like it and he can laugh all the way to the bank.

[akhhorus]

I agree, but I'm kind of tired of Lavar. He doesn't want to play ST b/c he considers himself too good. That bothers me.

Yeah, but he's too talented to just dump. I wouldn't deal him unless I could get a good deal: a relatively high 1st rounder and something else like a young player with obvious talent or a 2nd round pick. Trade him to the Saints for Darren Howard and a pick.

[BigPlayJay]

Yeah, but he's too talented to just dump. I wouldn't deal him unless I could get a good deal: a relatively high 1st rounder and something else like a young player with obvious talent or a 2nd round pick. Trade him to the Saints for Darren Howard and a pick.

I assume your talking about next season because we can't move him this year.

[BigCountry]

This is really killing me. LaVar should be out there playing. He's too good of a player and too big of a contract to have him sitting on the sideline. Our defense is not producing turnovers, and LaVar could help that. If we don't use him as a linebacker, screw it: play him at DE. We need to unleash this guy on teams.

If all this was true he'd be in there by now. Gregg Williams isn't going to hold a guy out for spite. My educared guess is that Arrington just cannot play within the system and pick up the mental aspect of the game which linebackers in this system needs to do. Marcus Washington doesn't get caught out of position alot and the same goes for Holdman. I'd rather take a smart player (Holdman) who knows where he's supposed to be then a guy who just runs around. Sure he'll make a play once in a while cause he's an athletic freak but sadly, not much more then that. The only unclear thing to me is why they won't at least put him in on passing situations.

[akhhorus]

I assume your talking about next season because we can't move him this year.

I wouldn't even humor the notion until next season. And then, it would have to be a good deal for the skins before I would even consider it, if I'm Gibbs. You can't dump Lavar because he's a malcontent and recieve next to nothing in return.

[BigPlayJay]

I wouldn't even humor the notion until next season. And then, it would have to be a good deal for the skins before I would even consider it, if I'm Gibbs. You can't dump Lavar because he's a malcontent and recieve next to nothing in return.

True that.
I do think we dump him though, unless he returns to dominating, and I mean seriously dominating form. Anything less than him outplaying Washington and I think he's gone for sure. I think the current coaches are trying to get rid of the losing, me first attitude, and while I have always liked Lavar I think he's one of the final pieces to that old puzzle.

Bottom line: even if he starts playing more, I think he's gone next year, 2007 at the very latest.

[BigCountry]

I wouldn't even humor the notion until next season. And then, it would have to be a good deal for the skins before I would even consider it, if I'm Gibbs. You can't dump Lavar because he's a malcontent and recieve next to nothing in return.

If we were to trade him I don't think it's too bleak for us. It's been prooven that if the talent is there, there's always that one GM that buys into the change of scenery, change of scheme stuff. You got Casserly in Houston, Norv in Oakland and Marty in San Diego who might just be willing to give him a look. I know it's too early but that's my preliminary list of favorites.

[BigPlayJay]

. The only unclear thing to me is why they won't at least put him in on passing situations.

I think that keeping the overall team atmosphere and chemistry is more important than getting Lavar into a game. The coaches want to make sure the players believe that if they work hard, they can contribute no matter if there is a higher draft pick or a higher paid player in front of them.

[redskins_MA]

I hope we trade him. the fact is that right now he IS an EXTREMELY well paid back up and he is not getting on the field enough to earn his paycheck. Why don't we trade him to somebody else for a DE or something.

I find that remark atrocious. Arrington loves loves the fans and plays his heart out. Just because he hasn't been healthy and doesn't fit into too many schemes thus far does not mean trade talk should be brought up. That is an insult to great competitor. He loves the game and wants to play. Granted, he won't play special teams. I attribute that to frustration, however. Give the guy some respect. He loves the fans and we cannot go bashing him because he hasn't done anything for us lately.

[Paintedbird]

we needed him today. i don't see Holdman making a difference. we need 1 more playmaker. soon enough the coaching staff will switch them more often.

I've got to agree. Holdman made one tackle today, one tackle against the Bears. I forget what he did against the pukes...but I think not much. Frankly, I'm worried about the D. Where the devil is Clemons? We were chewed up today on two drives, absolutely helpless...no rush...unable to stop short and intermediate passes. What gives?
Marshall was supposed to be the problem. It turns out Holdman is. Marshall missed a big tackle but otherwise outplayed Washington and Griffin.

[redskifreak]

90% of the posts here are trade trade trade! I said this very same thing last week and got lambasted and filleted for even thinking the idea! wtf?

we could get a ton for this guy in the off season ... always a team looking for a game changeing defensive player!

[akhhorus]

If we were to trade him I don't think it's too bleak for us. It's been prooven that if the talent is there, there's always that one GM that buys into the change of scenery, change of scheme stuff. You got Casserly in Houston, Norv in Oakland and Marty in San Diego who might just be willing to give him a look. I know it's too early but that's my preliminary list of favorites.

A whole bunch of teams would be interested, but I wouldn't deal him for peanuts. 1st rounder and a good player. Or multiple high picks.

[BigCountry]

A whole bunch of teams would be interested, but I wouldn't deal him for peanuts. 1st rounder and a good player. Or multiple high picks.

I'm not rulling it out, and if he goes somewhere else and plays to his potential in a system he fits better, then he's worth it. However, if someone offers anything from picks 15-25 I'd jump on it. I just don't see anyone shelling out a first and a starter for him.

[FanFromArizona]

I think in order to "work someone in slow" they actually have to be on the field once or twice.

I didn't see Lavar at all today.

I did see Lemar Marshall get run over once, miss a tackle a few times, and do a good job on blitzes though. I still say he's undersized =\

Just out of curiosity [don't shoot me for suggesting this]:Peace:

Could any of this be because of the new contract? No extra money because by not playing him he won't reach the levels he needs for the accelarators to kick in? [Pro Bowl, tackles/plays, etc]

Just a thought....

[akhhorus]

Just out of curiosity [don't shoot me for suggesting this]:Peace:

Could any of this be because of the new contract? No extra money because by not playing him he won't reach the levels he needs for the accelarators to kick in? [Pro Bowl, tackles/plays, etc]

Just a thought....

Probably not, but I think that Arrington publically whining that he was rushed into action at the end of the season and he doesn't want to come back until fully healthy have more to do with this. The coaching staff will take him at his word and wait until they think he's 100%.

[BigCountry]

90% of the posts here are trade trade trade! I said this very same thing last week and got lambasted and filleted for even thinking the idea! wtf?

we could get a ton for this guy in the off season ... always a team looking for a game changeing defensive player!

I waqs told I'm on drugs for even suggesting it. Welcome to the club

[BigCountry]

Probably not, but I think that Arrington publically whining that he was rushed into action at the end of the season and he doesn't want to come back until fully healthy have more to do with this. The coaching staff will take him at his word and wait until they think he's 100%.

Who knows, but for all of the LaVar lobbyers out there, right now you can't second guess a Gregg Williams personell decision so whatever it is I'm with it.

[NCskinsfanatic]

I dont know how many clauses/incentives he has in his contract tied to onfield performance but you bring up a good point. Now I'm not saying that anyone is keeping LA from playing just so he doesnt get paid but whether it's due to health, lack of discipline, lack of execution or all of the above, he aint playing.

[akhhorus]

I'm not rulling it out, and if he goes somewhere else and plays to his potential in a system he fits better, then he's worth it. However, if someone offers anything from picks 15-25 I'd jump on it. I just don't see anyone shelling out a first and a starter for him.

Perhaps. Darren Howard will be a UFA-probably franchised-and I could see a Howard for Lavar trade. But I would ask for a conditional pick along with Howard.

[BigCountry]

Perhaps. Darren Howard will be a UFA-probably franchised-and I could see a Howard for Lavar trade. But I would ask for a conditional pick along with Howard.

That's another option. I'd say Pittsburgh was another option but they're too conservative to do something like that and are not known to trade away draft picks. Not that I'm complaining are we ever gonna have an off-season where we don't loose or sign a big name

[camasterton]

This is a situation that has to be worked out with LaVar on the Team. LaVar needs to start making plays when he's in there. Coaches need to get him in the games more. Trading away "stars" is for rebuilding teams. We are now 3-0, leading the Division, 2nd in the Conference and all effort should be put into the now!
We went out to get Clinton Portis because he's a diffrence maker/play maker! Santana Moss, difference maker/play maker! Sean Taylor, difference maker/play maker. All are reat players that are put in situations where they can excel. The coaches need to put LaVar in situations where he can excel. As much as we like to think so, this year's defensive team is not as strong or deep as last year's team. There is a huge drop-off in the middle of the D, with MLB Antonio Pierce (especially) and Brandon Noble as a very good back up DT, replaced by Marshall and the young DTs. Coach Williams' comments earlier, in the pre-season, that the defensive line and linebackers hadn't "improved" from last season, was telling. If it's true (as the coaches have been saying in the media) that LaVar is healthy enough to play, he's got to be put in! L. Coles had issues last year but he wasn't put on the back-burner. Other teams are going to start to adjust to our main sack weapons, the corners. There was a play in the 4th where Springs blitzed, Ingram was wide ass open with Jackson going post that was downright scary! Other teams will go to school on that one. This D-Team needs more turnovers, sacks and three and outs. Playmakers on the field make can make that happen. Everybody at Redskins Park needs to adjust.

[BigPlayJay]

"Over the next few years you are going to see the talent level go down, and the wins go up"

Charles Mann - the day Joe Gibbs returned to the Redskins.

[CowboyKilla]

It's unfortunate we are even dealing with this topic.
GW has all the benefit of the doubt here. LA might need to be patient on this one. He will make a difference at some point.

[EberKain]

Im sure things will work out, one way or the other. LaVar could come on late in the year and be a gamechanging player for us. I still have hope cause he is a great player, and we can use him.

[NCskinsfanatic]

LA bucked the system when Marvin ran the D too, but he eventually seemed to conform and went on to post one of his best seasons. I think he's having a hard time showing the patience and discipline required to play in GW's system. That and the fact Marcus Washington is what we all thought LA was at OLB. I'm not hating on LaVar, Infact I still question whether or not he's 100%, but I do not question whether or not GW puts the best 11 on the field and thus far LA aint one of them.

[Cruising270]

Bottom line is I trust Greg Williams coaching over Arringtons play making ability.

I hope we eventually get Arrington back to starting but my opinion could easily change if he starts complaining publicly, that really doesn't fit the team 1st attitude thats back in Washington

[Emmanouel8]

You know I gave it till today but I'm all about cleaning some cap room at the expense of Lavar on the roster. Don't get me wrong I love him but whats the point of having him if we use him ONLY 4 PLAYS!?!?! He gets payed franchise player money and averages 3-4 plays a game. Ummmmm yeah.

So what's going on?! I guess he hasn't gained GW's trust when it comes to discipline is what's been leaking out locally and nationally. There's definitely a problem, how can GW claim that everyone is a starter yet Lavar gets fewer plays than the punter? We'll find out soon enough several TV guy's both locallly and nationally stated they were going to snoop around this week and find out.

They can't keep him if this continues, we could use the money way more productively (a stud DE or DT) and let Lavar run free somewhere else in the AFC. It's tough to say that about #56.

[The Iceman]

With the skills that LA has, he is definitely good enough even at 80% , to be on the field with the top 11 on that defense. The fact is, he is still nurturing a sore knee. After having knee surgery myself, I gotta say it takes a while to come back all the way. I think Lavar will get his reps when he is ready to go physically. Our defense is playing fine without him, but he would definitely provide a spark and get us in a better position to get some turnovers.

I'm behind Lavar Arrington all the way. He is a great player, and a pretty good role model. He will be back better than ever.

I GUARANTEE IT!!!!!

[Emmanouel8]

The fact is, he is still nurturing a sore knee. After having knee surgery myself, I gotta say it takes a while to come back all the way.
I GUARANTEE IT!!!!!

Only GW echoes those sentiments. It's an easy out for him to say that, but even Lavar says he's ready tp go and he doesn't know why he hasn't seen any action other than he's in a 'package' they don't call. Exactly what package he is in we're all wondering.

[SonnyandSam]

Why all the sour grapes over Lavar? Because some mediots start telling rumors or guess at why Lavar might not be playing.

The fact is we have an excellent defense that is working quite well. You don't fix what ain't broke. GW has done a wonderful job with our defense since last year and for any of us to be second guessing him is just silly, IMO. I KNOW none of us could put together a better performing defense. GW will work Lavar in when he is ready and when it is the right time for GW and his defense.

Till then, I'm happy with the defense, could care less if Lavar plays or is on the sidelines, and overjoyed that my Redskins are now 3-0 and leading the Division.

[whitskins]

Why all the sour grapes over Lavar? Because some mediots start telling rumors or guess at why Lavar might not be playing.

The fact is we have an excellent defense that is working quite well. You don't fix what ain't broke. GW has done a wonderful job with our defense since last year and for any of us to be second guessing him is just silly, IMO. I KNOW none of us could put together a better performing defense. GW will work Lavar in when he is ready and when it is the right time for GW and his defense.

Till then, I'm happy with the defense, could care less if Lavar plays or is on the sidelines, and overjoyed that my Redskins are now 3-0 and leading the Division.

My thoughts precisely.

[RedskinsReaper21]

I thought his knee was still hurt. I remember last week coach said something about LA getting some fluid drained from his knee last week even...then again I could be imagining it.

[HanburgerBum]

I just can't believe that a coach as good as Williams would say something like "Lavar Arrington doesn't fit in our scheme" Williams LOVES Sean Taylor because of his freakish athletic skills. Why would he not love the same qualities that are present in Arrington?

That's got to be a misquote or misunderstanding somewhere. That's a pretty idiotic statement to say that someone with that kind of athletic ability has no place in your scheme. Arrington's a vastly superior talent compared to Holdman.


I am puzzled why it is so hard for you to understand why someone as physically talented as Lavar may not fit into Gregg Williams' scheme. Football is the ultimate team sport. A defense can only be good if every player carries out his assignment and responsibility. If Lavar is out there free-lancing, he is of no use to the team and he shouldn't be playing.

[28Zcomeback]

and the team is just hoping that he'll come around in the later half of the season.

[HanburgerBum]

Yeah, but he's too talented to just dump. I wouldn't deal him unless I could get a good deal: a relatively high 1st rounder and something else like a young player with obvious talent or a 2nd round pick. Trade him to the Saints for Darren Howard and a pick.


Surely you are joking. Any salary cap issue aside, the Redskins right now would be lucky to get a medium 2nd rounder for Lavar. Why?

1) He is very talented physically, but he has never been a dominant player. His pro bowl berths are largely based upon reputation, not production.

2) He is not very coachable. He has repeatedly resisted the roles his defensive coordinators have envisioned him in. And, he tends to free-lance.

3) He is over-paid and has a huge contract still on the books.

4) His health and durability are now issues.

5) He is already in his late twenties.

6) His attitude makes him a potential cancer on a team.

7) Around the League, he is regarded as being over-rated. Didn't he just replace Brian Ehrlecher of the Bears as the most over-rated player in the NFL in a recent ESPN article?

Other than these minor items, Lavar would be terrific trade bait.

[HanburgerBum]

I find that remark atrocious. Arrington loves loves the fans and plays his heart out. Just because he hasn't been healthy and doesn't fit into too many schemes thus far does not mean trade talk should be brought up. That is an insult to great competitor. He loves the game and wants to play. Granted, he won't play special teams. I attribute that to frustration, however. Give the guy some respect. He loves the fans and we cannot go bashing him because he hasn't done anything for us lately.


You may still be buying that "my relationship with the fans is the most important thing to me" stuff, but I am done with that. I am not drinking that Cool-Aide any more. If his relationship with the fans is all that important to him, he would keep his mouth shut and wait for his opportunity to play and contribute. Instead, he rocks the boat by shooting off his mouth to the Washington Times.

[syphy]

Instead, he rocks the boat by shooting off his mouth to the Washington Times.


Was it the Times? If that's the case, I don't put much stock in this story at all. That rag has been known to have editorial edits that insert blatantly false, unresearched information without the writers knowledge. I don't believe anything coming out of that paper unless it's confirmed by a couple others.

[redwolf1218]

I think they are taking it slow with him and working him in here and there. I don't see him getting traded (not even taking in the cap hit). I think LaVar is still a dominate player and just needs a chance to shine in this defense.
I agree. They are making him pay for his comments about being rushed back into things last year by taking it slow with him this year. Besides, didn't he just have fluid drained from his knee last week? There's no reason to rush him back before he's 100%.

[IowaSkinsFan]

I just can't believe that a coach as good as Williams would say something like "Lavar Arrington doesn't fit in our scheme" Williams LOVES Sean Taylor because of his freakish athletic skills. Why would he not love the same qualities that are present in Arrington?

Because one does what he is told and the other doesn't?

[BigPlayJay]

Was it the Times? If that's the case, I don't put much stock in this story at all. That rag has been known to have editorial edits that insert blatantly false, unresearched information without the writers knowledge. I don't believe anything coming out of that paper unless it's confirmed by a couple others.

I would normaly say your right, but the Times articles were directs quotes from Lavar, not from a mysterious "unamed source".

[akhhorus]

Surely you are joking. Any salary cap issue aside, the Redskins right now would be lucky to get a medium 2nd rounder for Lavar. Why?
1) He is very talented physically, but he has never been a dominant player. His pro bowl berths are largely based upon reputation, not production.
2) He is not very coachable. He has repeatedly resisted the roles his defensive coordinators have envisioned him in. And, he tends to free-lance.
3) He is over-paid and has a huge contract still on the books.
4) His health and durability are now issues.
5) He is already in his late twenties.
6) His attitude makes him a potential cancer on a team.
7) Around the League, he is regarded as being over-rated. Didn't he just replace Brian Ehrlecher of the Bears as the most over-rated player in the NFL in a recent ESPN article?

Other than these minor items, Lavar would be terrific trade bait.

1-Teams will trade for talent no matter what and will talk themselves into anything. Coles was damaged goods and a team cancer, yet the Jets parted with Moss for him. The Raiders gave up a top ten pick for a bad attitude, poor work ethic star player who was hampered by injuries most of last season. And no, he earned his pro bowl berths.
2-He's had 5 different Defensive coordinators. Saying that he's "uncoachable" is unfair.
3-And they wont be on the hook for his bonus, which take about 15-16 million off of his contract. Expensive, but hardly gaudy.
4-Before last year, he only missed two games. And this injury he suffered wasn't a major one, just a minor one that never healed properly. Also, he can say, the only reason he's not playing this year is because the coaches are pissed at him.
5-So? He's 27. He's got realistically, 6-7 more years. He also keeps himself in perfect physical condition.
6-What attitude? The only time I've heard him complain is that he believed that he was rushed back into the lineup too early last year. Portis has fought more with Gibbs publically.
7-Just because ESPN says so, doesn't make it so. Urlacher is more over-rated than Lavar, but if you were to offer him around the league, you could get at least a 1st rounder for him.

If the Skins decide to trade him, just about every team would be interested and they would get more than a mid 2nd for him. They could get a high 1st from a stupid team and at least a 1st rounder from a smart team.

[Redskinmayhem]

here's my take on the situation:

It can only be 2 things, possibly a combo of both.

#1- Lavar just isn't healthy enough to play.

#2- The Coaching staff is punishing him for saying that they brought him back too early last season.

That's it, nothing more, nothing less. Lavar is a competitor. I don't think he's the cancer that the media makes him out to be. I think he's just frustrated. Remember, that otehr guys on the team battled like crazy in camp while he was injured and not practicing hard. I think the staff has every right to make him earn it. He just has to strap on his boots and play ST if he has to. He's a physical freak no doubt but everything has always been handed to him his whole life. Well, guess what, not anymore. Now he must earn his spot, just like Lemar, like Ryan Clark, like, noble, like Jimoh, like Salave'a etc. This team is filled with guys who fought like hell to make this team. Look at Matt Bowen- same thing. He's only on the field for a few plays and that, due to injury. But- he made plays. HE played ST. He's earning it back. LAvar just needs to man up. I have faith in him that he will. And, he will dominate.He'll be back in there starting this season. He's simply too good to let go. Plus, remember people CAPONOMICS 101. It's going to get really pricey to ditch you big money platers.

[GibbsRules!]

Lavar is a playmaker...as long as our team is in the negative as far as our turnover ratio is concerned I think he will have a role in our D.

I had been hearing about how supportive he was of Holdman recently. The fact that he wants to play instead of sitting on the sidelines getting paid is alright with me.

He'll be back.

[tomlcollins]

Why all the sour grapes over Lavar? Because some mediots start telling rumors or guess at why Lavar might not be playing.

The fact is we have an excellent defense that is working quite well. You don't fix what ain't broke. GW has done a wonderful job with our defense since last year and for any of us to be second guessing him is just silly, IMO. I KNOW none of us could put together a better performing defense. GW will work Lavar in when he is ready and when it is the right time for GW and his defense.

Till then, I'm happy with the defense, could care less if Lavar plays or is on the sidelines, and overjoyed that my Redskins are now 3-0 and leading the Division.

I must admit I'm happy, too, even as much as I would like to see him on the field. However.....what if the "right time" doesn't come? He played FOUR plays yesterday, FOUR! The fact is that it's quite simply stupid to pay him as much as we are if he's not going to play. That money could be used very effectively elsewhere.

Say all you want about Arrington being overrated, blah, blah, blah. The fact is that the majority of teams in the NFL would LOVE to have him starting for them b/c he's a playmaker. Are we all forgetting that this is the same guy who had 223 tackles, 17 sacks, and 11 forced fumbles from 02-03? How quickly we forget.....

[camasterton]

Was it the Times? If that's the case, I don't put much stock in this story at all. That rag has been known to have editorial edits that insert blatantly false, unresearched information without the writers knowledge. I don't believe anything coming out of that paper unless it's confirmed by a couple others.
That's the NEW YORK Times your describing very well.

[MoeRedskins]

Wait a minute. Is there any print or video of LaVar or coaches saying any of this, or are these 6 pages of thread going off what Howie Long said during halftime. Unless somebody can produce an article (reputable source please) I don't believe any of it and better yet, I don't care about any of it.

[EberKain]

Im on the Pro LaVar bandwagon. Some of you guys need to chill out. If he finishes the season with ten tackles then you can start bashing. But the fact is that he is a great player, and has always been one of our best defensive players. If we have a top 3 defense without him, he will be the one that propells us to #1, he can get sacks and turnovers. When was the last time our defense forced a turnover?

[GWBlitzST]

When Lavar comes into the game, the players and fans take it up a notch. He is good for our team's energy level, and is beloved by all when he is in there mixing it up. He will learn to stay home on his assignments soon enough, but I feel like we could still blitz him at least 3-4 times a game regardless of his other duties. He is a playmaker, there is no denying that, and us Skins fans should have patience with our coaching staff and players in the understanding that these guys are making the right moves to get this team to the playoffs. I imagine Lavar will be starting toward the end of the season, right about the time the division heats up and everyone is fighting for a playoff spot.

Ps Warrick Holdman is a beast and I think he is Dale Lindsey's favorite linebacker, both of which do not bode well for Lavar right now.

[Redskinfan28]

Im on the Pro LaVar bandwagon. Some of you guys need to chill out. If he finishes the season with ten tackles then you can start bashing. But the fact is that he is a great player, and has always been one of our best defensive players. If we have a top 3 defense without him, he will be the one that propells us to #1, he can get sacks and turnovers. When was the last time our defense forced a turnover?

He was an impact player, but I'm not sure he is now. I mean, there is a reason he is not playing and thats because GW doesn't feel that he is better than Holdman at this point of the season. Maybe it changes and maybe it doesn't - all I know is that i am tired of Lavar and his diva attitude.

[SkinsGuru]

Sorry if I'm repeating something someone already said . . . BUT . . . either Arrington is still hurt or not up to speed OR . . . GW or JG are pissed at him about something (his comments maybe) . . . Holdman had 1 tackle yeterday . . . the intermediate passes were WIDE open in the 2nd half . . . We go NO pressure on Hassleback in the 2nd half . . .

ARRINGTON NEEDS TO PLAY!!!!!

[HanburgerBum]

1-Teams will trade for talent no matter what and will talk themselves into anything. Coles was damaged goods and a team cancer, yet the Jets parted with Moss for him. The Raiders gave up a top ten pick for a bad attitude, poor work ethic star player who was hampered by injuries most of last season. And no, he earned his pro bowl berths.
2-He's had 5 different Defensive coordinators. Saying that he's "uncoachable" is unfair.
3-And they wont be on the hook for his bonus, which take about 15-16 million off of his contract. Expensive, but hardly gaudy.
4-Before last year, he only missed two games. And this injury he suffered wasn't a major one, just a minor one that never healed properly. Also, he can say, the only reason he's not playing this year is because the coaches are pissed at him.
5-So? He's 27. He's got realistically, 6-7 more years. He also keeps himself in perfect physical condition.
6-What attitude? The only time I've heard him complain is that he believed that he was rushed back into the lineup too early last year. Portis has fought more with Gibbs publically.
7-Just because ESPN says so, doesn't make it so. Urlacher is more over-rated than Lavar, but if you were to offer him around the league, you could get at least a 1st rounder for him.

If the Skins decide to trade him, just about every team would be interested and they would get more than a mid 2nd for him. They could get a high 1st from a stupid team and at least a 1st rounder from a smart team.


I certainly hope that you are right and that I am wrong about this. A first rounder would be great. But, deep down, my gut feeling is that unfortunately I will prove to be right.

1) Randy Moss is certainly one of the top 3 players at his position. I seriously doubt you can say that about Lavar (he isn't even the best OLB on the Redskins, Marcus Washington is). As for Coles, he was widely regarded at the time of the trade as a better WR than Santana Moss (a presumption that NOW appears to be ludicrous). That's why the Jets made the trade. I seriously doubt GMs throughout the league regard Lavar as much of a "catch" at present. As for Lavar's pro bowl berths, I guess it's a matter of opinion how worthy he is of them.

2) Having 5 different coordinators can certainly be a reason that Lavar's development has been slowed, but it is not an excuse for resisting their attempts to coach him.

3) Your point about the new team not having to swallow his bonus is valid. But, I believe the remainder of his contract is still pretty large (larger than his production).

4) Yes, Lavar has been durable up until last year. But, I think that is an issue now.

5) 27 is young for some positions, but maybe not for a OLB that throws his body around.

6) His mouthing off to the Times about the lack of playing time in the wake of the great victory over Dallas, I think, showed his true colors of "MEism". Instead of regaling in one of the TEAM's greatest regular season wins ever, he is pouting that he is not playing enough. If that's not bad attitude, what is? And, if his refusal to play special teams is true, that borders on insubordination. I think I am right that Darrel Green, Champ Bailey and Marcus Washington (all players at least of his caliber, if not better) have played special teams while they were (are) starters.

7) You are right that ESPN may be wrong about Lavar being over-rated. But, the problem is that ESPN represents perception. I think people in football (other than in DC) generally perceive Lavar as being over-rated (at least somewhat), and that will lessen his trading value.

[SkinsGuru]

If we don't use Lavar more this year . . . NOBODY is going to give too high of a pick for him . . . I mean if he isn't good enought to beat out Holdman . . . he won't be good enough to start on 2/3's of the teams in the league . . .

if he does nothing this year we will be lucky to get a 3rd or 4th for him.

[bwparker]

7) You are right that ESPN may be wrong about Lavar being over-rated. But, the problem is that ESPN represents perception. I think people in football (other than in DC) generally perceive Lavar as being over-rated (at least somewhat), and that will lessen his trading value.

This is something that has always bothered me. If EVERYONE thinks LaVar is overrated, then he is not overrated, because there is no one rating him highly enough for it to be "over" his "objective" rating. It doesn't make sense.

For someone to be "overrated" they have to be picked and lauded as one of the best by most and then not deliver. LaVar WAS overrated. Now he's just a former pro-bowler riding the bench.

[redskifreak]

never figured out why arrinton wasnt put up for middle LB and kept lemar on the outside where he did a more then fine job last year.

arrington in the middle ....that would be a sight.


and reasons here why he wasnt even considered?

[superbowl06]

I do not understand peoples' hating of Lavar. I'd rather have a guy itching to get on the field than being overly cautious because he doesnt want to get injured. I have complete faith in GW, but I also love Lavar and hope he finds a spot in our defense. I'd hate to trade him away, because he's a playmaker, a good teammate, and most of the time has loved being a redskin.

[BurgundyNGold]

I do not understand peoples' hating of Lavar. I'd rather have a guy itching to get on the field than being overly cautious because he doesnt want to get injured. I have complete faith in GW, but I also love Lavar and hope he finds a spot in our defense. I'd hate to trade him away, because he's a playmaker, a good teammate, and most of the time has loved being a redskin.
I like him too, but I'd rather have a 1st round draft pick next year and some salary cap space back. If he can learn to play within the scheme, that'd be great. As I recall, we had the same problem with Wilbur Marshall initially. If he can't or won't play within the system, then it's better for both parties that he get a new start somewhere else.

[Spence]

I do not understand peoples' hating of Lavar. I'd rather have a guy itching to get on the field than being overly cautious because he doesnt want to get injured.If he wants to play so badly then he can help out on special teams.

[superbowl06]

I like him too, but I'd rather have a 1st round draft pick next year and some salary cap space back. If he can learn to play within the scheme, that'd be great. If not, then it's better for both parties if he get a new start somewhere else.


i'll agree with that. obviously a 1st rounder would be better if he will continue to sit on the bench. but i hope that's not the case

[ArtMonk4HOF]

We need to see Lavar for at least 15 plays in a game to see what he can do. We have virtually no turnovers this season, he's the man to remedy that. I hope they call his number at mile high, because this is our first true test as a team. We win this, we are legitamate in our doubters eyes.

[superbowl06]

If he wants to play so badly then he can help out on special teams.

that's a media report. i never saw gw or lavar quoted as saying that. and you have to admit, going from starter to special teams guy is a little shaming.

[GibbsRules!]

This is the last reference to Lavar by GW that I could find. Did GW mention anything in the postgame conference yesterday? Or did Coach Gibbs for that matter. If not...I'll go with this instead of some hearsay...

Assistant head coach defense Gregg Williams downplayed Arrington's unhappiness with playing less in Week 2 than in Week 1 behind starter Warrick Holdman. Said Williams, "LaVar's doing very well, and he's improving each week. He has a tremendous team attitude, and as things work out, you'll see him more."

http://washingtontimes.com/sports/20050930-122338-2382r.htm

[Spence]

that's a media report. i never saw gw or lavar quoted as saying that. and you have to admit, going from starter to special teams guy is a little shaming.Well, we react to a lot of things we see and hear in the media, don't we? I don't care if it is shaming to him or not. Champ Bailey, who people on this site love to hate, played special teams for the Redskins while he was also starting at cornerback. He was needed so he did what he was asked to do. What's Lavar's excuse? His ego? Sorry, not good enough.

[superbowl06]

champ bailey was STARTING and asked to step into another role. Lavar desperately wants to start. Maybe it would be different if he got some snaps in the game.

[bwparker]

champ bailey was STARTING and asked to step into another role. Lavar desperately wants to start. Maybe it would be different if he got some snaps in the game.
Anytime you touch the ball its a privaledge. Being asked to run back a punt or KO is not as demeaning as being asked to risk your already injured for a completely thankless task.

I'm not saying he would be right to turndown ST time. But comparing his NOT playing to Green and Bailey's playing time is unfair.

That being said. I saw Marcus Washington, Shawn Springs and Sean Taylor play thankless ST duty in the Dallas game.

[Skinsfan1311]

I think that keeping the overall team atmosphere and chemistry is more important than getting Lavar into a game. The coaches want to make sure the players believe that if they work hard, they can contribute no matter if there is a higher draft pick or a higher paid player in front of them.

Exactly......I think it's a great message that GW is sending LA......NO ONE is bigger than the team and it keeps them on their toes. I hope Arrington get's better, and can get in and contribute....

[OCSkinzFan]

never figured out why arrinton wasnt put up for middle LB and kept lemar on the outside where he did a more then fine job last year.

arrington in the middle ....that would be a sight.


and reasons here why he wasnt even considered?
The Mike needs to stay home and fill on the run. Arrington is famous for floating into space, getting out of position, and not shedding blockers.

He's good at weak side because he can play in space w/out a helmet in his face every play, but he would get caught in traffic at mike and not be able to showcase his tallent. IMO

[Keino]

I don't believe that Lavar would refuse to go to a meeting or participate in Special Teams. It doesn't seem consistant with anything that he has been saying publicly regarding his lack of playing time. I allude to the article in the Post last week that contained numerous quotes from both he and Holdman.

With that said, there is definately something more to Lavar not playing than "Packages" as the coaches keep telling us IMO.

And with that said, who cares?!?!?!! We are 3-0. If we were to go 16-0 without Lavar, it wouldn't matter to me one bit. (though I believe he could've helped us yesterday)

[Spence]

champ bailey was STARTING and asked to step into another role. Lavar desperately wants to start. Maybe it would be different if he got some snaps in the game.Just my point. Champ was a starter and the leader of the defense, but he didn't mind stepping in to help the team anywhere he was needed. So what's Lavar's excuse?

[BurgundyNGold]

I(though I believe he could've helped us yesterday)
I agree. Especially in the 2nd half when everybody else was tired. Could you just imagine putting a tazmanian devil like LA in to terrorize Hasselbeck when his OL was tired and everyone knew he had to pass?

[dj_stouty]

Well, we react to a lot of things we see and hear in the media, don't we? I don't care if it is shaming to him or not. Champ Bailey, who people on this site love to hate, played special teams for the Redskins while he was also starting at cornerback. He was needed so he did what he was asked to do. What's Lavar's excuse? His ego? Sorry, not good enough.

Yeah...and he also fumbled 5 punt returns that year! Sometimes you have to simply do what you are paid to do. ;)

[Keino]

Just my point. Champ was a starter and the leader of the defense, but he didn't mind stepping in to help the team anywhere he was needed. So what's Lavar's excuse?

Spence, stop it. One, it has not been confirmed that Lavar has refused to play Special teams. That is purely Media Speculation at this point and given Gregg Williams' comments about Lavar having a "Team First" attitude, Im utterly flabbergasted that you are buying into the notion so easily. Secondly, Champ was A leader on the defense not THE leader on the defense. Thirdly, he (Champ)helped on Special Teams as a returner, out of a selfish desire to get his hands on the ball. His "Help" cost us at least 3 ball games. I don't recall Champ being asked to play Punt coverage. Every starting CB in the league plays on the Punt Return team. Four, Champ whined and moaned about not being used on Offense, whereas Lavar has not been seen whining and moaning about playing time even though he is by far the most physically gifted amongst the LB corps.

I think you are way off base, and besides, Champ doesn't play here anymore.

[BurgundyNGold]

Spence, stop it. One, it has not been confirmed that Lavar has refused to play Special teams. That is purely Media Speculation at this point and given Gregg Williams' comments about Lavar having a "Team First" attitude, Im utterly flabbergasted that you are buying into the notion so easily. Secondly, Champ was A leader on the defense not THE leader on the defense. Thirdly, he (Champ)helped on Special Teams as a returner, out of a selfish desire to get his hands on the ball. His "Help" cost us at least 3 ball games. I don't recall Champ being asked to play Punt coverage. Every starting CB in the league plays on the Punt Return team. Four, Champ whined and moaned about not being used on Offense, whereas Lavar has not been seen whining and moaning about playing time even though he is by far the most physically gifted amongst the LB corps.

I think you are way off base, and besides, Champ doesn't play here anymore.
I agree with everything you say here Keino. But didn't Champ play on KO coverage too as the "last line of defense" a la Darrell Green?

[Spence]

Yeah...and he also fumbled 5 punt returns that year! Sometimes you have to simply do what you are paid to do. ;)I Iwas referring to the role Bailey played as safety on kick return coverage, where he prevented a few returns for touchdown.

[RedskinsVision]

I agree with everything you say here Keino. But didn't Champ play on KO coverage too as the "last line of defense" a la Darrell Green?

so does Springs. most defensive backs have that role. comes with the position.

[Keino]

I agree with everything you say here Keino. But didn't Champ play on KO coverage too as the "last line of defense" a la Darrell Green?

I honestly don't recall that. I recall Champ being one of the best CB's in the league, but I don't remember him on Coverage teams at all. Must not have made the impact on me that he made on Spence in that role.

[Spence]

Spence, stop it. One, it has not been confirmed that Lavar has refused to play Special teams. That is purely Media Speculation at this point and given Gregg Williams' comments about Lavar having a "Team First" attitude, Im utterly flabbergasted that you are buying into the notion so easily. Secondly, Champ was A leader on the defense not THE leader on the defense. Thirdly, he (Champ)helped on Special Teams as a returner, out of a selfish desire to get his hands on the ball. His "Help" cost us at least 3 ball games. I don't recall Champ being asked to play Punt coverage. Every starting CB in the league plays on the Punt Return team. Four, Champ whined and moaned about not being used on Offense, whereas Lavar has not been seen whining and moaning about playing time even though he is by far the most physically gifted amongst the LB corps.
The story probably never will be confirmed, at least not as long as Arrington wears a Redskins uniform. In general, these things are never acknowledged publicly until the player leaves and both sides feel comfortable talking about it.

I find the story pretty easy to believe. I have no doubt the coaches are going to knock down any talk of a disagreement with Lavar, but I don't believe them. Arrington has been suited up for every game, which means he's healthy enough to play. He studied this system all last year so he is not at a disadvantage in that sense. So, he's healthy enough to play and he knows the system. So why does he only get in on 5 or so plays a game? The answer is pretty obvious: The defensive coaches think they can do better with guys who earn a lot less money than Arrington.

Now, why wouldn't you want Arrington on special teams? He can run. He can hit. He's got good size and he's got plenty of experience running through blockers. He's a natural on special teams. To me, it is just not plausible that Lavar's effort would not be sought there.

Since he plays so infrequently from scrimmage, Arrington should be left inactive on game days unless he plays on special teams. Honestly, why would you activate a player who hardly plays from scrimmage and doesn't play at all on special teams? We have a name for that sort of player: Backup quarterback. Since Lavar doesn't fit that description either, his presence on the sidelines is a mystery.

I believe the media report that Lavar was asked to play special teams. Why wouldn't he be? He's a wasted roster spot if he does not and he's perfectly suited for the job.

[Keino]

I agree that Lavar is suited to play teams, that's not my point of contention. I'm not ready to believe, given Lavar's seemingly team first attitude that he would refuse to do what his coaches ask of him. It's not consistant with any of his public comments about playing tiem and the like. I am further unwilling to buy into the notion that Champ was more of a Team first guy than Lavar is. Champ was the very essence of a selfish player and as evidence, I cite his insistance to get a commitment from Shanny that he would be used on Offense as part of his contract negotiation with Denver.

[Spence]

I agree that Lavar is suited to play teams, that's not my point of contention. I'm not ready to believe, given Lavar's seemingly team first attitude that he would refuse to do what his coaches ask of him. It's not consistant with any of his public comments about playing tiem and the like.How many times has Lavar Arrington been benched? Has it ever happened? And if so, when was the last time it happened? Being benched can change a player and his attitude towards his team. We've all seen that happen to quarterbacks. We've seen it happen to wideouts, such as when Jerry Rice talked his way off the 49ers because he was unwilling to play second fiddle to Terrell Owens. Lavar thinks very highly of himself. I don't find it hard to believe that Arrington is so annoyed with his current status that he's refusing the play special teams, at least right now. It's not as if he and the team have been on great terms in the last year or so. If Arrington threw a fit over a perceived insult to his star status, he would hardly be the first or the last player to do so. Lavar has always been a team player, but then he's also always been a starter.

I am further unwilling to buy into the notion that Champ was more of a Team first guy than Lavar is. Champ was the very essence of a selfish player and as evidence, I cite his insistance to get a commitment from Shanny that he would be used on Offense as part of his contract negotiation with Denver.I don't see Champ's position as anti-team. It might not be a good idea for him to play much offense -- I think he shouldn't be doing much of it at all -- but I don't see how it is intentionally harmful to the team. I don't see that as particularly selfish. Champ wants to be a great player on both sides of the ball. That's prideful, of course, but not selfish.

[bigsetz]

I'm not going to say that he refused to play special teams, but I'm sure he strongly disagreed if asked. Mainly cause special teams is just a freak accident ready happen and Arrington still has a lot of football left in him and he doesnt want to jeopardize everything to be a wall buster. He'll get his knee healthier and be back in full time in a week or three and holdman can take down that special teams spot everyone on here seems to covet so much. Lavar has been hitting offensive guys so hard for a couple years if you put him on special teams he'll just have a huge target on his back. All the fullbacks & TE's on kick return will be salivating at the thought of a big crack back on him or even worse someone will chop block him cause he's too fast and strong to hit head up which could blow out his knee. Not a smart decision if u'd ask me. Spells disaster!

[silverspring]

Maybe he can't fit into the system, or maybe he will blow people away. The only thing we are sure of is that no one will know until he gets some real playing time. C'mon get him in there and lets find out.

[bigsetz]

Maybe he can't fit into the system, or maybe he will blow people away. The only thing we are sure of is that no one will know until he gets some real playing time. C'mon get him in there and lets find out.

That might just be the thing. We've been so close in every game and the defense is clicking right now that they dont have the time to see just where he's at and risk giving up a big play on the count that he's not 100%. Especially since we dont have the best offense that can score at will. One big play can cost us everything.

[BIGSEF3]

Spence, I have to say you make a convincing argument.

If we let Jimoh waste a roster spot b/c of special teams, then why dress Arrington to do absolutely nothing?

I honestly think theres something BIG thats going to come out and we will all know it a year from now. I think arringtons contract dispute got settled a little too easily. I wouldnt be surprised if the Skins are doing this in response to Arringtons new contract.

I would speculate Arrington made some demands, knowing that with his huge contract, he holds all the cards. So I think the skins gave him new contract, that gave him some freedom, and more money, if he played alot, played well, and made the pro-bowl. Arrington signed this deal beceause he felt he would be sure to play alot and return to his glory days. The Skins are not playing him now to show them THEY have the power and control - not him. They are teaching him a lesson. Whether it is their intent to work through all this and have Arrington be a life-long redskins, or whether its their intention to pull of some huge, completely unbeleivable b/c of salary cap ramifications trade or not, i don't know.

And its quite possible Spence is dead wrong on his theory, and I'm dead wrong on my less plausible theory, but there is ALOT more going on here than meets the eye, that is for certain.

[bigsetz]

I would speculate Arrington made some demands, knowing that with his huge contract, he holds all the cards. So I think the skins gave him new contract, that gave him some freedom, and more money, if he played alot, played well, and made the pro-bowl. Arrington signed this deal beceause he felt he would be sure to play alot and return to his glory days. The Skins are not playing him now to show them THEY have the power and control - not him. They are teaching him a lesson. Whether it is their intent to work through all this and have Arrington be a life-long redskins, or whether its their intention to pull of some huge, completely unbeleivable b/c of salary cap ramifications trade or not, i don't know.

Do you really believe that? If so then you're nuttier than squirrel terds..lol jk

but seriously...

[akhhorus]

I certainly hope that you are right and that I am wrong about this. A first rounder would be great. But, deep down, my gut feeling is that unfortunately I will prove to be right.

1) Randy Moss is certainly one of the top 3 players at his position. I seriously doubt you can say that about Lavar (he isn't even the best OLB on the Redskins, Marcus Washington is). As for Coles, he was widely regarded at the time of the trade as a better WR than Santana Moss (a presumption that NOW appears to be ludicrous). That's why the Jets made the trade. I seriously doubt GMs throughout the league regard Lavar as much of a "catch" at present. As for Lavar's pro bowl berths, I guess it's a matter of opinion how worthy he is of them.

Plenty of teams passed on Moss because of his atittude and on the field problems. Yes, he's a dominating player that most teams don't think is worth it. The Raiders were fools to make that deal. Coles is still a more talented wideout than Moss, but Moss is healthy and the Jets knew exactly how damaged Coles was and his attitude problems when they traded for him. Now, on your contention that Lavar made the pro bowl by reputation. He made it his second year with a dominating performance. He had a bad rookie year, so where does this "reputation" come in? Then he follows it up with a double digit sack season under Marvin Lewis and makes the pro bowl again. He deserved to go then also.

2) Having 5 different coordinators can certainly be a reason that Lavar's development has been slowed, but it is not an excuse for resisting their attempts to coach him.

2004 and 2005 were the first time his role on the defense didn't change. Its not just that he was having different coordinators, his role would change from Derrick Brooks-type coverage LB to attacking Pass rushing LB. If you changed bosses every few weeks and the focus of your job changed with them, you would start ignoring them a bit, figuring that the current boss would be gone soon.

3) Your point about the new team not having to swallow his bonus is valid. But, I believe the remainder of his contract is still pretty large (larger than his production).

Lavar is owed 24 million in base salary from 2006-2011. Thats pretty easy to swallow for a team. That about the same we gave Marcus Washington.

4) Yes, Lavar has been durable up until last year. But, I think that is an issue now.

If he had blown out something major and didn't have a cartiledge injury that didn't heal properly, you would have a point. But again, he keeps himself in perfect shape.

5) 27 is young for some positions, but maybe not for a OLB that throws his body around.

Again: he keeps himself in perfect shape. Derrick Brooks is 32 and still plays like he's 25. Hardy Nickerson played well into his 30s at MLB.

6) His mouthing off to the Times about the lack of playing time in the wake of the great victory over Dallas, I think, showed his true colors of "MEism". Instead of regaling in one of the TEAM's greatest regular season wins ever, he is pouting that he is not playing enough. If that's not bad attitude, what is? And, if his refusal to play special teams is true, that borders on insubordination. I think I am right that Darrel Green, Champ Bailey and Marcus Washington (all players at least of his caliber, if not better) have played special teams while they were (are) starters.

Bad attitude would be what Coles did. Bad attitude is whining for a trade because you've been benched. Lavar is super talented and is frustrated. He deserves a shot in this defense.

7) You are right that ESPN may be wrong about Lavar being over-rated. But, the problem is that ESPN represents perception. I think people in football (other than in DC) generally perceive Lavar as being over-rated (at least somewhat), and that will lessen his trading value.

ESPN represents ESPN, not the prevailing opinion of the league. And again, he's a super talented player-whether or not you think he's over rated or under performing-you cannot deny his talent or physical ability. Teams will always offer value for that.

[camasterton]

Tim Ryan on Sirius NFL stated he spoke to a defensive player on the Redskins who told him LaVar said (to the coaches), he'd play on the "punt team but don't expect me to go to practice"

[whitskins]

Lavar is on the John Thompson show right now debunking Howie Long's comments during the game yesterday. Saying he would never refuse to play or practice in any aspect of the game.

Says his health is 100% and it's time to stop using his health as an reason for his not playing. Keeps repeating that he is 100%.

Says he does not want to cause a controversy and does not want to create a distraction and overshadow a 3-0 start. That there is no power struggle and is doing whatever is asked of him.

[NCskinsfanatic]

Well he's saying all the right things then, thanks whitskins. Any other comments or was that about it?

[rsmithx]

LaVar specifically states that he isn't the starter. Holdman is the Redskins starting OLB and that they aren't trying to "work himself back in" because there is nothing to work in to because he isn't the starter.

[IMALILTEAPOT]

lavar is great, hes saying alllll the speculation is wrong. what he said is that he is a backup and we have to get used to it

[NCskinsfanatic]

LaVar specifically states that he isn't the starter. Holdman is the Redskins starting OLB and that they aren't trying to "work himself back in" because there is nothing to work in to because he isn't the starter.
Thanks for the updates guys, but does LA sound positive, or resentful, or what? I mean does he think he has a shot at starting again or Holdmans the starter and thats that?

[whitskins]

He's just rambling now, basically saying the same things over and over again, says he is a man and will do whatever he has to do...

"I lost my job. It was my job for five years and I got injured..."

[whitskins]

Thanks for the updates guys, but does LA sound positive, or resentful, or what? I mean does he think he has a shot at starting again or Holdmans the starter and thats that?

He actually sounds pretty positive, who knows if that's an act though, he says he is the backup and Holdman is the starter and he lost his job so he'll do whatever the team asks him to do.

[silverspring]

That might just be the thing. We've been so close in every game and the defense is clicking right now that they dont have the time to see just where he's at and risk giving up a big play on the count that he's not 100%. Especially since we dont have the best offense that can score at will. One big play can cost us everything.

yeah that could be it although williams seems like a pretty big risk taker. He is just too expensive to be holding the bench down unless we know he can't play. Maybe they are just saving his body for the second half of the season.

[whitskins]

Now he's just talking about yesterday's game and saying how impressed he was with our offense.

[NCskinsfanatic]

I'd like to hear him say "I'm workin my butt off, I'm hoping that that translates to more playing time and the opportunity to reclaim the starting position that I held for five years but I'm excited that we are off to a 3-0 start and ultimately this team comes first!"

[IMALILTEAPOT]

i just dont get this man. obviously, greg will thinks holdman is better than lavar for some reason, and i think its not fair. lets put him in, see how he does. i want lavar to experience us winning.

[whitskins]

Lavar says he has absolutely no dialogue with Williams and Lindsay about his role on the team.

Basically saying the coaches should approach him to discuss things instead of him approaching them. If they don't think its important enough to discuss it with him then he'll leave it be.

God, John Thompson is kissing up to Lavar hardcore.

[IMALILTEAPOT]

I'd like to hear him say "I'm workin my butt off, I'm hoping that that translates to more playing time and the opportunity to reclaim the starting position that I held for five years but I'm excited that we are off to a 3-0 start and ultimately the his team comes first!"
he basically said that, not in those exact words, but he said that

[whitskins]

So nothing really earth shattering there which I guess is a good thing because I was a little afraid that we'd see a Lavar "Hulk Smash" go down... But I think the bottom line is that Lavar is a backup on this team right now and that won't change until GW and Lindsay want it to. Our defense is getting the job done right now so I can't complain, but I'd love to see Lavar out there on the field executing people... I've got to believe he gets out there sometime soon, at least that's what I'm hoping for...

[NCskinsfanatic]

he basically said that, not in those exact words, but he said that
Well then I'll take him for his word and hope that he means it. GW, much like Gibbs, will start the best guys, and right now whether it's because of technique, discipline, speed, attitude, health or any of the above LaVar aitn one of them. Im not knocking LaVar, I just want him to be one of the best 3 LBs on the field if he plays. Just because he's been a probowler and has bigname recognition doesnt mean he's better than Holdman in practice or even in the execution of GW's scheme. If he wants it bad enough then i think he will reclaim the starting spot, he has all the tools.

[skinsrdatruth]

I Just listened to the radio, 980 am. Lavar was on the show and said that he said nothing of the nature to what was reported on Fox yesterday. Says he wasn't even asked to play special teams. He said that he would do whatever is asked of him with no hesitation. He doesn't want this situation to overshadow the teams 3-0 record. He says people try to turn this into a soap opera. He says he's not a problem on the field, off the field, or in the locker room. How he looks at it is..he was a starter for 5 years, got injured, came back and his job was gone. He's fine with being a backup and when his number is called, for whatever, he'll be ready.
He does say, though, that there is not much communication between him and the defensive coaching staff. He doesn't know exactly why he's not playin much. He confirmed that he's 100% and that he knows the defense, but he says that he's a team player and as long as the team is winning that's all that matters. he continues to say how he loves the fans, and how he's had so much support from the fans.
Overall the interview was positive but lavar did seem upset about his situation, although he didn't say it, you could hear it in his voice.

[Redskinfan28]

i just dont get this man. obviously, greg will thinks holdman is better than lavar for some reason, and i think its not fair. lets put him in, see how he does. i want lavar to experience us winning.

I trust Gregg Williams. If Lavar is not the man for the job, then so be it.

[hail2skins]

Well, I was wondering if it was anything to those comments. I caught the tail end of the conversation and didn't hear him but I know John T wouldn't have commended him for his comments if he didn't say the right things. I think Arrington knows the defense and would play within the confines of it. He was doing well before he was injured. I really don't see Arrington putting himself above the team because of the things he's done for this team since being here. You might no like his play on the field but he's done some stuff in the background.

[ShaggySkins]

I heard about this on the radio this morning. They basically said Lavar was asked to play special teams and he refused. They talked about how they thought this was likely affecting Arrington's playing time during games and how this may be a sign that he is not a "Joe Gibbs type" player.

I'm honestly not too sure what to think, I can partially understand why Lavar would refuse with his reputation as a pro bowl player and his desire to play more on defense. I do think it would have been helpful for him to play ST and probably have gotten him back in the good graces with the coaching staff had he done it. This defense is doing great without Lavar in it, why mess with a good thing? Holdman has been solid as well as the rest of the linebacking crew.

Lets not forget this isn't the 1st time Lavar has had a diva moment, back when Marvin Lewis was DC he wanted Lavar to play DE and Lavar basically said he hated it and didn't want to do it despite it helping the team.

At this point I think we'll see Lavar in limited action throughout the season and by next year he'll be gone either by trade or cut. Does anybody know if his contract is even tradeable?

[Joe-T]

Well, I was wondering if it was anything to those comments. I caught the tail end of the conversation and didn't hear him but I know John T wouldn't have commended him for his comments if he didn't say the right things. I think Arrington knows the defense and would play within the confines of it. He was doing well before he was injured. I really don't see Arrington putting himself above the team because of the things he's done for this team since being here. You might no like his play on the field but he's done some stuff in the background.

I caught the same thing ,what I found interesting is Doc Walker asked him if he had gone to talk to the coachs and he said"no" they need to come to him .That might be the problem .He needs to go to Williams and tell him he'll do anything LaVar can't assume they know that ,he also hinted that this could be because of the contract .

[hail2skins]

I caught the same thing ,what I found interesting is Doc Walker asked him if he had gone to talk to the coachs and he said"no" they need to come to him .That might be the problem .He needs to go to Williams and tell him he'll do anything LaVar can't assume they know that ,he also hinted that this could be because of the contract .rskinsfan10 and I had this conversation yesterday and we both he is being punished.

[hail2skins]

I heard about this on the radio this morning. They basically said Lavar was asked to play special teams and he refused. They talked about how they thought this was likely affecting Arrington's playing time during games and how this may be a sign that he is not a "Joe Gibbs type" player.

I'm honestly not too sure what to think, I can partially understand why Lavar would refuse with his reputation as a pro bowl player and his desire to play more on defense. I do think it would have been helpful for him to play ST and probably have gotten him back in the good graces with the coaching staff had he done it. This defense is doing great without Lavar in it, why mess with a good thing? Holdman has been solid as well as the rest of the linebacking crew.

Lets not forget this isn't the 1st time Lavar has had a diva moment, back when Marvin Lewis was DC he wanted Lavar to play DE and Lavar basically said he hated it and didn't want to do it despite it helping the team.

At this point I think we'll see Lavar in limited action throughout the season and by next year he'll be gone either by trade or cut. Does anybody know if his contract is even tradeable?Yeah but when GW came in and wanted the same thing, he had no problem with it. Arrington played a lot of DE last season. I'll tell you this, there were alot of 56 jerseys worn at the game yesterday and I do mean a lot of them. I know I had mine on.

[IMALILTEAPOT]

rskinsfan10 and I had this conversation yesterday and we both he is being punished.
if that is so, i think thats not rite. not only are u punishing him for something that lavar has openly said that he didnt want to get in the way of football, u are, in a way, hurting the team. we have only forced 1 turnover all season, and i think we have sacked the qb only 4 times. u gotta believe if lavar was in the game those numbers would of increased

[The Skinsinator]

I really believe there is something more to this. Over the summer, GW made a direct comment regarding LA something along the lines of downplaying his injury and really just "moving on." The guy is a freak of nature and still can be an amazing player. Why is he not playing more? I believe it may be due to a combination of things like he's not 100% and protecting the team after his previous outburst. As stated, of course, he is making way too much money not to do more. This story has a tremendous amount of future implications for the team.

[Redskinfan28]

rskinsfan10 and I had this conversation yesterday and we both he is being punished.

You could be right, of course, but I would hope thats not the case. A healthy and focused LA is better than a healthy Holdman, so I have to believe that his wheel is not right and he lacks the explosiveness he once had. He may never be the player he once was.

Certainly, Lavar ran his mouth this year about the contract and the "bringing him back too early" issue, but would the coaching staff risk wins and losses to prove a point? If that were truly the case, I would be surprised.

[ShaggySkins]

CAN EVERYONE PLEASE STOP SECOND GUESSING THE DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR THAT HAS DEVELOPED WHAT IS ONE OF THE BEST DEFENSES IN THE LEAGUE!!?!?!?

Sorry just had to get that off of my chest. Guys I'm willing to bet Greg Williams knows what he's doing with the defense. If this defense was in the bottom half of the league and Lavar wasn't playing then I'd understand the complaining but C'MON! The defense is tremendous right now, they are shutting down opponents and this is without Lavar. I like Lavar too but if Greg Williams thinks Holdman is the better fit, or more disciplined or whatever the reason then so be it.

[whitskins]

CAN EVERYONE PLEASE STOP SECOND GUESSING THE DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR THAT HAS DEVELOPED WHAT IS ONE OF THE BEST DEFENSES IN THE LEAGUE!!?!?!?

Sorry just had to get that off of my chest. Guys I'm willing to bet Greg Williams knows what he's doing with the defense. If this defense was in the bottom half of the league and Lavar wasn't playing then I'd understand the complaining but C'MON! The defense is tremendous right now, they are shutting down opponents and this is without Lavar. I like Lavar too but if Greg Williams thinks Holdman is the better fit, or more disciplined or whatever the reason then so be it.

I concur. Gregg Williams could start Gilbert Arenas at outside linebacker over Lavar and if we still had a top defense I'd be fine with it.

[hail2skins]

I concur. Gregg Williams could start Gilbert Arenas at outside linebacker over Lavar and if we still had a top defense I'd be fine with it.Let's not go too far. :D

[Keino]

How many times has Lavar Arrington been benched? Has it ever happened? And if so, when was the last time it happened? Being benched can change a player and his attitude towards his team. We've all seen that happen to quarterbacks. We've seen it happen to wideouts, such as when Jerry Rice talked his way off the 49ers because he was unwilling to play second fiddle to Terrell Owens. Lavar thinks very highly of himself. I don't find it hard to believe that Arrington is so annoyed with his current status that he's refusing the play special teams, at least right now. It's not as if he and the team have been on great terms in the last year or so. If Arrington threw a fit over a perceived insult to his star status, he would hardly be the first or the last player to do so. Lavar has always been a team player, but then he's also always been a starter.

Yes, but in each instance that you are referring to, the player confirmed what was reported to be true. Lavar is categorically denying the accusation. A very important distinction in my opinion. To answer your questions, no he has never been benched, all the more reason Im inclined to believe that he DID NOT refuse to participate as again, I have argued, it would not be consistant with the way he has handled/is handling his benching. Every quote has been positive and team oriented. Team then Me.

I don't see Champ's position as anti-team. It might not be a good idea for him to play much offense -- I think he shouldn't be doing much of it at all -- but I don't see how it is intentionally harmful to the team. I don't see that as particularly selfish. Champ wants to be a great player on both sides of the ball. That's prideful, of course, but not selfish.

I think you are blinded by your love for Champ. It is absolutely selfish to want to play WR when you are a CB and the coaches have asked that you ffocus on being a CB. To have an attitude because the coaches think A) you are too valuable at your primary position in Champ's case CB and B) that you should focus on being the best CB is the very definition of selfish. Putting individual goals ahead of the team is selfish and he cited that as one of the reasons he didn't want to come back. BTW - Selfish is defined as only being concerned about oneself. You don't have to intend to harm the team with your selfishness to be selfish. Champ's last season here, he had nothing but negative comments about the team and the organization. He handled is situation with far less class than Lavar is currently handling his. And you will recall, I was a "Keep Champ" advocate that whole year.

[golongdude]

So when did it become cool for a high schooler's mentality and maturity to surface at the pro level?

Shut up and refine your CB skills and stay healthy there, that's what they ought to tell him. That is what you're getting paid for!

Idiots w/ the mind of a child.

[vegeta2364]

John Thompson was on with lavar.. its totally false .. but lavar does seem pretty sad abou tit.. but he says he 100% man and is just gonna continue to do what he can for the team..

you can read a thread from es about it http://extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1683133&highlight=100%25+man#post1683133

[HanburgerBum]

I agree that Lavar is suited to play teams, that's not my point of contention. I'm not ready to believe, given Lavar's seemingly team first attitude that he would refuse to do what his coaches ask of him. It's not consistant with any of his public comments about playing tiem and the like. I am further unwilling to buy into the notion that Champ was more of a Team first guy than Lavar is. Champ was the very essence of a selfish player and as evidence, I cite his insistance to get a commitment from Shanny that he would be used on Offense as part of his contract negotiation with Denver.


Lavar has categorically denied that he refused to play or practice special teams. Since I don't have evidence to the contrary, I will accept his denial as truthful.

But, I am still angry with Lavar about his interview with the Times that resulted in the article that was full of "ME, ME, ME....not getting enough playing time" and not much about how estatic he was about the TEAM victory over Dallas. If that's his true colors, he isn't much of a team player. To satisfy me, Lavar has to refute that Times article (although it's hard to un-ring a bell) and/or apologize to his teammates.

You may be right that Champ wasn't much of a team player, but at least he didn't go public with his frustrations.

[BIGSEF3]

I don't care what Lavar says. I really dont. And if Joe Gibbs wanted Lavar Arrington to play, he'd be on the field. But he doesnt. And neither does Greg Williams, who is quite possibly the greatest defensive mind in history. If Lavar isn't on the field, then whats best for this team is for him not to be on the field. The why is irrelevant.

[redwolf1218]

http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showthread.php?p=574667#post574667

[vegeta2364]

oops

[HanburgerBum]

Plenty of teams passed on Moss because of his atittude and on the field problems. Yes, he's a dominating player that most teams don't think is worth it. The Raiders were fools to make that deal. Coles is still a more talented wideout than Moss, but Moss is healthy and the Jets knew exactly how damaged Coles was and his attitude problems when they traded for him. Now, on your contention that Lavar made the pro bowl by reputation. He made it his second year with a dominating performance. He had a bad rookie year, so where does this "reputation" come in? Then he follows it up with a double digit sack season under Marvin Lewis and makes the pro bowl again. He deserved to go then also.



2004 and 2005 were the first time his role on the defense didn't change. Its not just that he was having different coordinators, his role would change from Derrick Brooks-type coverage LB to attacking Pass rushing LB. If you changed bosses every few weeks and the focus of your job changed with them, you would start ignoring them a bit, figuring that the current boss would be gone soon.



Lavar is owed 24 million in base salary from 2006-2011. Thats pretty easy to swallow for a team. That about the same we gave Marcus Washington.



If he had blown out something major and didn't have a cartiledge injury that didn't heal properly, you would have a point. But again, he keeps himself in perfect shape.



Again: he keeps himself in perfect shape. Derrick Brooks is 32 and still plays like he's 25. Hardy Nickerson played well into his 30s at MLB.



Bad attitude would be what Coles did. Bad attitude is whining for a trade because you've been benched. Lavar is super talented and is frustrated. He deserves a shot in this defense.



ESPN represents ESPN, not the prevailing opinion of the league. And again, he's a super talented player-whether or not you think he's over rated or under performing-you cannot deny his talent or physical ability. Teams will always offer value for that.


I can live with most of your arguments, but I strongly disagree that Lavar has not exhibited a bad attitude.

Lavar has categorically denied that he refused to practice and play special teams. Since I have no evidence to the contrary, I will accept his denial as truthful.

But, his interview with the Times, at the very time of one of the Redskins greatest moments ever, that resulted in an article full of "ME, ME, ME" and nothing about how great it was for the TEAM to win was inexcusible. That is not only bad attitude, it is very bad attitude. Unless Lavar can show that the Times article was inaccurate, he needs to apologize to his teammates and the fans.

As for Coles, sure he was a cancer. But, at least he didn't go public with his attitude.

[Redskinfan28]

Apparently, this was Bugel's quote on NBC4, per extremeskins:

He went on to say that Arrington needs, "to get in the groove. He's got to get in the groove. He needs to practice ... and study the defense... We can't have a flash. A guy that makes a flash play and then four or five bad ones...... He needs to pay attention to his assignments and buy into the system....... Once he does that he'll play."

[Joe-T]

Yeah but when GW came in and wanted the same thing, he had no problem with it. Arrington played a lot of DE last season. I'll tell you this, there were alot of 56 jerseys worn at the game yesterday and I do mean a lot of them. I know I had mine on.
I believe were at the point were we either believe GW or LaVar .I think LaVar should act professional (yes he has done that) and just figure where he wants to go too .Without a doubt he has the tools to be one of the best I just think there's to much to over come..ie...badblood sort to speak .

[redwolf1218]

Apparently, this was Bugel's quote on NBC4, per extremeskins:

He went on to say that Arrington needs, "to get in the groove. He's got to get in the groove. He needs to practice ... and study the defense... We can't have a flash. A guy that makes a flash play and then four or five bad ones...... He needs to pay attention to his assignments and buy into the system....... Once he does that he'll play."
wow. reading between the lines, that's a whole lot different than just saying "we weren't using the packages he's involved in".

[akhhorus]

I can live with most of your arguments, but I strongly disagree that Lavar has not exhibited a bad attitude.

Lavar has categorically denied that he refused to practice and play special teams. Since I have no evidence to the contrary, I will accept his denial as truthful.

But, his interview with the Times, at the very time of one of the Redskins greatest moments ever, that resulted in an article full of "ME, ME, ME" and nothing about how great it was for the TEAM to win was inexcusible. That is not only bad attitude, it is very bad attitude. Unless Lavar can show that the Times article was inaccurate, he needs to apologize to his teammates and the fans.

As for Coles, sure he was a cancer. But, at least he didn't go public with his attitude.

But I would respond by saying that there is a BIG difference between Coles' whining-even privately-that the results of how the team did didn't matter if he wasn't getting the ball and Lavar's public grumbling about his playing time and complaining that he was rushed into action too quickly last season.

[The Skinsinator]

Apparently, this was Bugel's quote on NBC4, per extremeskins:

He went on to say that Arrington needs, "to get in the groove. He's got to get in the groove. He needs to practice ... and study the defense... We can't have a flash. A guy that makes a flash play and then four or five bad ones...... He needs to pay attention to his assignments and buy into the system....... Once he does that he'll play."
Those comments indicate to me that because of his practice play he's not playing. Williams defensive sets are very detailed and require discipline. As much as he likes to biltz, if a nonblitzer is out of position it could result in a very costly play. Williams knows what he's doing. Let's leave it at that.

[Keino]

Lavar has categorically denied that he refused to play or practice special teams. Since I don't have evidence to the contrary, I will accept his denial as truthful.

But, I am still angry with Lavar about his interview with the Times that resulted in the article that was full of "ME, ME, ME....not getting enough playing time" and not much about how estatic he was about the TEAM victory over Dallas. If that's his true colors, he isn't much of a team player. To satisfy me, Lavar has to refute that Times article (although it's hard to un-ring a bell) and/or apologize to his teammates.

You may be right that Champ wasn't much of a team player, but at least he didn't go public with his frustrations.

Im not sure I know about the Times Article with which you refer. I don't read the Times, but I saw a Post article that was substantially team oriented as it relates to Lavar's comments. Lavar's only recent Diva moment that I recall came over the summer when he launched his "Rush me Back" mantra.

Champ absolutely went public with his frustrations and indicated during a mid-year interview that he had no desire to be back.

[silverspring]

But I would respond by saying that there is a BIG difference between Coles' whining-even privately-that the results of how the team did didn't matter if he wasn't getting the ball and Lavar's public grumbling about his playing time and complaining that he was rushed into action too quickly last season.

I agree it is a different flavor of whining. Lavar's whining was just immature grumblins, not actually giving up on his team.

Sounds to me like lavar is pissed cause he wants to play and probably isn't being the most positive attitude guy at practice. While the coaching staff is pissed cause lavar isn't giving them the attitude they want and hence you get one of those evil circles of pissed off feeding off itself.

They need to get him in some more, if they want to punish him or bring him along slow then don't start him. But he needs to get some more snaps.

[JoeJacksonTaylor28]

I don't care what Lavar says. I really dont. And if Joe Gibbs wanted Lavar Arrington to play, he'd be on the field. But he doesnt. And neither does Greg Williams, who is quite possibly the greatest defensive mind in history. If Lavar isn't on the field, then whats best for this team is for him not to be on the field. The why is irrelevant.

Greatest defensive mind in history?? Wow....I love GW, but come on man....

[dabro]

He doesn't like playing DE....maybe thats part of this problem


OK, let's put him at middle linebacker.

[70chip-on-1]

Apparently, this was Bugel's quote on NBC4, per extremeskins:

He went on to say that Arrington needs, "to get in the groove. He's got to get in the groove. He needs to practice ... and study the defense... We can't have a flash. A guy that makes a flash play and then four or five bad ones...... He needs to pay attention to his assignments and buy into the system....... Once he does that he'll play."


Gibbs reiterated Bugel's feelings on his 20 minute interview with Bram on WTEM 980. He danced around the question as usual, but confirmed that Lavar is 100% healthy, and that his current position on the depth chart is related to performance.

[C-7]

Yeah that was a little exaggerated to say the least.

[CornerBlitz]

I don't care what Lavar says. I really dont. And if Joe Gibbs wanted Lavar Arrington to play, he'd be on the field. But he doesnt. And neither does Greg Williams, who is quite possibly the greatest defensive mind in history. If Lavar isn't on the field, then whats best for this team is for him not to be on the field. The why is irrelevant.
Only if Gregg Williams came out and said that he didnt play well in the system would I agree with the statement.

[Redskinfan28]

Only if Gregg Williams came out and said that he didnt play well in the system would I agree with the statement.

Then why isn't Lavar playing?

[ConradCountry]

I don't know what is up with the LaVar situation, but if Gregg Williams says he does not fit his system then he doesn't.

I wish we could either find a way of playing him or find a way to deal him.

[BigPlayJay]

I saw Lavar's comments from today on Comcast's Sports Nite tonight. He carried himself pretty well. Said he didn't want this to be an ongoing soap opera. He also denied ever refusing to play special teams. He didn't come out and say he would be playing special teams either though. He definitely seems upset about he situation, but doesn't seem to think there is anything he can do to change it.

[PennSkinsFan]

Several NFL executives and player agents had predicted Arrington's benching as a precursor to his release. He had been mired in a lengthy grievance over his eight-year, $68-million contract that was only recently resolved, and clashed with the organization over the handling of his injuries last season. Arrington, the second overall pick in the 2000 draft, carries a $12-million salary cap figure for 2006, and while cutting him in the offseason could result in an $11-million cap hit in 2006, the Redskins have endured such penalties in the past to create future cap room. Arrington has a $6.5 million roster bonus due in July, sources said, and cutting him before then would save the Redskins $7 million in actual dollars (including Arrington's 2006 base salary).


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/03/AR2005100301853.html

[nicefellow31]

I think part of the questions that fans are having about Arrington, is that for the last few years, Lavar has been marketed as the face of the Redskins. Now it is like they are forgetting about him (Only four plays). A lot of the older fans may remember when Billy Kilmer took over for Sonny. People wanted to know why he wasn't the starter. That's all. When the Skins give a real answer, then this controversy will go away.

[ConradCountry]

I would rather trade Arrington take the big hit and get some compensation for him. Keep in mind that the new CBA is suppose to see the cap grow to 100 million which would allow us to treade Arrington with no problems.

I would rather have a healthy Arringotn on the team though.

[silverspring]

I think part of the questions that fans are having about Arrington, is that for the last few years, Lavar has been marketed as the face of the Redskins. Now it is like they are forgetting about him (Only four plays). A lot of the older fans may remember when Billy Kilmer took over for Sonny. People wanted to know why he wasn't the starter. That's all. When the Skins give a real answer, then this controversy will go away.

Good post. I just watched gibbs press conference and he totally danced around the issue. Why they can't give us the straight up reason why he isn't playing behooves me. How he is performing so bad that he can only get in a few plays a game doesn't make sense.

[bgforever]

With the talk of the large salary cap increase, I imagine that several teams would probably look at a player with his upside.

Colts. Next season, especially if they don't win the Superbowl or at least make it there, Dungy, Dennis Green, Mike Tice, and the NE Pats would make a move for Arrington. However, I just don't see him leaving and actually being reinserted in the D for good, later this season. LaVar's got a few more weeks to be at 100% and Gibbs doesn't like to spend all day talking about players injuries. Remember MB?

[bgforever]

For those who don't want to believe this, where was Lavar during the game? On the side line.

OMT, we, as Redskin fans, automatically assume that the media is trying to start something. I would agree with you guys except for one thing. Like I said earlier, Lavar was on the sidelines today....:whoknows:

Reality check for me again. Just wish I had the time back like I used to check further into details. So many stories out there and I have to rely on some of you guys for my facts. Ok, so I am wrong about the media sway for attention to other teams, but it does fit quite a few internet writers.

[HanburgerBum]

But I would respond by saying that there is a BIG difference between Coles' whining-even privately-that the results of how the team did didn't matter if he wasn't getting the ball and Lavar's public grumbling about his playing time and complaining that he was rushed into action too quickly last season.


I am not sure I understand your point. I will just say that if there is a difference between Coles' whining and Lavar's whining, Lavar's is worse. Here is why that's so. It is unclear if Coles whined to his teammates (or just to the coaches) and whether the whining occurred during the 2004 season. But, it is clear that Coles' unhappiness with the team did not surface until after the season was over. At that point, Coles' whining wasn't going to hurt the team, especially since Gibbs took the bull by the horn and resolved the problem.

Lavar on the other hand, with the team at 2-0 and coming off one of its greatest regular season wins ever, publically complains about his lack of playing time. He is basically saying that his playing time is more important than the team winning. This kind of boat-rocking, selfish attitude can be poisonous in the locker room and can serve as a catalyst to derail the Skins season.

[HanburgerBum]

Im not sure I know about the Times Article with which you refer. I don't read the Times, but I saw a Post article that was substantially team oriented as it relates to Lavar's comments. Lavar's only recent Diva moment that I recall came over the summer when he launched his "Rush me Back" mantra.

Champ absolutely went public with his frustrations and indicated during a mid-year interview that he had no desire to be back.


The Times article was published during the week after the great victory over Dallas. I don't remember the exact date and I don't have a link. Basically, the article quotes Lavar as saying that he was healthy, unhappy with his lack of playing time and didn't understand why he wasn't playing more. There was very little, if any, regaling on Lavar's part of the great Monday night win.

I was shocked that Lavar (who often bragged about being a team player) would go public with his complaint, especially the atrocious timing of it. You could almost understand the public complaint, if the team were losing. But, here he was rocking the boat when the team is undefeated. In my mind, there is just no excuse for his behavior.

[War Hogg]

Bottom line is that a healthy Lavar causes more fear than any player on our defense and the fact that GW and Dale Lindsay are not using him just doesnt seem very intelligent (winning games or not).....

The whole "Holdman is more familiar with the scheme" crap is bull because he just got here this offseason...furthermore, a Lavar at 75% is a bigger factor than a Holdman at %110...

The sad part about the whole thing to me is the fact that they arent communicating to him what or when he will gain his position back....

The way they are going about this whole thing just seems very sneaky and not very straight forward....

[bigcmr]

I have always been a fan of Lavar. But we are 3-0 with huge momentum so far all us fans should be focusing on having a good season. My advice to all the true Redskins fans. Lets not let the media try to take away our season. As for now all I care about is winning games.

[BigPlayJay]

Bottom line is that a healthy Lavar causes more fear than any player on our defense and the fact that GW and Dale Lindsay are not using him just doesnt seem very intelligent (winning games or not).....

The whole "Holdman is more familiar with the scheme" crap is bull because he just got here this offseason...furthermore, a Lavar at 75% is a bigger factor than a Holdman at %110...

The sad part about the whole thing to me is the fact that they arent communicating to him what or when he will gain his position back....

The way they are going about this whole thing just seems very sneaky and not very straight forward....

Just because Lavar has been here longer doesn't mean he understands or executes the defense better than the other LBs. In this system it is very dependant on each player being where they are supposed to be. lavar likes to go everywhere and make his plays.

Don't blame the coaches, this isn't the first time a coaching staff has had this exact same complaint about Lavar.

[Redskinfan28]

Bottom line is that a healthy Lavar causes more fear than any player on our defense and the fact that GW and Dale Lindsay are not using him just doesnt seem very intelligent (winning games or not).....

The whole "Holdman is more familiar with the scheme" crap is bull because he just got here this offseason...furthermore, a Lavar at 75% is a bigger factor than a Holdman at %110...

The sad part about the whole thing to me is the fact that they arent communicating to him what or when he will gain his position back....

The way they are going about this whole thing just seems very sneaky and not very straight forward....

I'm kind of torn, because LaVar has been my favorite player the last 6 years. However, the coaches feel that LA is not disciplined enough to play. That is, he will make one big play and then make 3 bad plays while out of position. GW would rather have someone like Holdman in there who may not make the big play but will always be in position.

[akhhorus]

I am not sure I understand your point. I will just say that if there is a difference between Coles' whining and Lavar's whining, Lavar's is worse. Here is why that's so. It is unclear if Coles whined to his teammates (or just to the coaches) and whether the whining occurred during the 2004 season. But, it is clear that Coles' unhappiness with the team did not surface until after the season was over. At that point, Coles' whining wasn't going to hurt the team, especially since Gibbs took the bull by the horn and resolved the problem.

Lavar on the other hand, with the team at 2-0 and coming off one of its greatest regular season wins ever, publically complains about his lack of playing time. He is basically saying that his playing time is more important than the team winning. This kind of boat-rocking, selfish attitude can be poisonous in the locker room and can serve as a catalyst to derail the Skins season.

How can you think Lavar's was worse? This is the article you are referring to?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/sports/20050922-120219-6405r.htm

"As long as we're winning, I guess I can't complain too much," said the three-time Pro Bowl linebacker, who started but played just a handful of snaps. "You know how I am. I want to be out there trying to make a difference. I want to help. I thought the whole plan was to ease me back in, but that hasn't turned out to be true."

Thats much better-even though it is public-than Coles' whining to the coaches. And notice, how many Skins' were glad to see Coles leave?

[BigPlayJay]

I back the coaches on this thing, but I would like to see more of Lavar in a role that will help the team. He obviously has loads of natural talent. I think the coaches just want him to carry out his assgnments correctly. They are trying to teach him something! Thats their job! It's not another great Joe Gibbs conspiracy.

[tomlcollins]

After reading the Times and the Post articles this morning, I'm realizing that the coaching staff may be making their first big mistake here by not playing Arrington.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/03/AR2005100301853.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/sports/20051004-120228-2603r.htm

I have yet to question a thing they've done b/c I'm not a coach, but I feel that the treatment Arrington is receiving is ridiculous, especially considering his capability and meaning to the organization. Kids, fans, etc...most people LOVE this guy b/c he's charismatic and he ENJOYS the game.

I can't wait to see us lose a great player for no obvious reasons other than a contract dispute that's already been resolved. Arrington basically signed a lifetime contract, there is no reason to question his intentions when he could have easily gotten out of it if he wanted to.

The guy can play, plain and simple.....there is NO QUESTION that he can do at the very least as well as Holdman, so PUT HIM IN!!

[Redskinfan28]

After reading the Times and the Post articles this morning, I'm realizing that the coaching staff may be making their first big mistake here by not playing Arrington.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/03/AR2005100301853.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/sports/20051004-120228-2603r.htm

I have yet to question a thing they've done b/c I'm not a coach, but I feel that the treatment Arrington is receiving is ridiculous, especially considering his capability and meaning to the organization. Kids, fans, etc...most people LOVE this guy b/c he's charismatic and he ENJOYS the game.

I can't wait to see us lose a great player for no obvious reasons other than a contract dispute that's already been resolved. Arrington basically signed a lifetime contract, there is no reason to question his intentions when he could have easily gotten out of it if he wanted to.

The guy can play, plain and simple.....there is NO QUESTION that he can do at the very least as well as Holdman, so PUT HIM IN!!

As pointed out by others, the bottom line is that Greg Williams is weighing how many spectacular plays LA makes for us vs how many points LA gives up on spectacular plays by the opposition because LA is out of position.

And you can't play him simply because he is a fan favorite. Thats not how a winning team can do business.

[PennSkinsFan]

Just because Lavar has been here longer doesn't mean he understands or executes the defense better than the other LBs. In this system it is very dependant on each player being where they are supposed to be. lavar likes to go everywhere and make his plays.

Don't blame the coaches, this isn't the first time a coaching staff has had this exact same complaint about Lavar.

Lets not kid ourselves. This has nothing to do with the scheme or packages. Don't buy that 'unfiltered' stuff that Redskins Park would like you to believe. See through the public relations spin and take a look at reality. Remember one thing, the Redskins front office has geared up to try and control media about the team so what you hear from there is WHAT THEY want you to hear. I have a few assumption about why Lavar is not playing and my bet is HE would agree with me:

1. The Redskins were the third ranked defense in 2004. They are near the top this year again, without Lavar, why rock the boat.

2. Do you really think there is not hard feelings inside Joe Gibbs about Lavar's acusation that his injury was prolonged because coaches rushed him back? All is forgiven right? Yeah ok. Do I blame Gibbs if he holds the grudge? Nope. It was a cheap shot that even if you felt it, you don't point out or finger your team, especially your coaches. It's called breaking the clubhouse sanctity.

3. The grievence. You think sinc ethey avoided arbitration that all is well and good? Don't be naive, the real world exist every where even at Redskins park. They are human like we all are. You think all is forgiven when Lavar basically called Snyder a liar?


Those are my assumptions and I bet Lavar would agree with them. Much of what we are seeing is likely retaliation, because it simply does not make sense to with hold a play maker, the man that Snyder once called the 'new face' of the redskins, a player than can force turnovers, which this defense lacks. You think when Spikes is back and ready in Buffalo he is goign to sit the bench? I think not. If we only have certain packages for Lavar why are Marcus Washington and Lemar Marshall in all packages? Again, take a look at the situation with face value, for what it is, not for what they want to sell it as.


Now, my personal feelings. The defense is playing fine without him. BUT, how much better could we be with him? Holdman to me has not lit anything up? He only has 6 friggin tackles in 4 games? Doesn't sound to effective. Where are the trunovers? Did Willaims not say he was disappointed by the late collapse against Seattle in the 4th quarter and the play at Linebacker? Ummmm, Hellllooooo.

[warpaint]

I have read how much everyone loves Williams, almost all wants him to be our next head coach when Gibbs hangs it up. I think the decision for lavar not to be playing now was a 100% Williams call. if Williams wanted lavar out there starting then that is what he would be doing. once again I see lots of fans thinking they know more about football than the coaches do. I like lavar but think that his reputation over shadows his playing ability. one thing I saw over and over before we drafted him was that lavar leap footage where he leaped over the lineman to make the tackle on the running back. I think that has carried on over into the pros. I personally like what the team is doing, sets an example for the others to either play as they want you to or you wont play at all. it all has to do with discipline , could all of this relate to why we had so few penalties Sunday, one of the reasons we won that game.

[Spence]

1. The Redskins were the third ranked defense in 2004. They are near the top this year again, without Lavar, why rock the boat.I think that's the explanation that comes closest to the truth. Football coaches are conservative philosophically. They don't like change and usually will resist any change when things are going well.

[smoak]

I told myself I wasn't going to read this thread and get into... and so far I've stayed away.

I love LaVar. I want LaVar to develop into a serious playmaker and help this team generate turnovers.

But.

I remeber when LaVar was at Penn State how Joe Pa talked about Lavar's freelancing and how LaVar wasn't even the best LB on the team let alone the best LB in college football (an SI article).... Oddly enough, he may have been right.

I'm holding out hope that LaVar can get this ship turned around.

[MoeRedskins]

I don't know if anybody on this site has reported it yet, but I heard on SportsTalk on the way to work this morning that Joe Bugel told George Micheal last night that Lavar isn't playing because he is inconsistant. He makes one good play followed by 3 or 4 bad ones. The broadcast then said that Marvin Lewis (former Skins D Cord) had been quoted as saying Lavar is the most undisclipinced player on the football field that he has ever coached. Take that for what it is worth, but I still contend Lavar is heads and shoulders better then Chris Clemons. I'll try and find a source for it.

[guinness4health]

I don't understand why our defensive coachs have such a bad opinion of lavar, but i can tell you one thing, holdman played like crap against the seahawks... i saw at least 7-10 plays when he bit on a bad play fake, missed his coverage assignment, got absolutely crushed and taken out of the play by a lead block, couldn't catch up to a lumbering tightend after letting him get out in front of him....

I just don't understand what lavar can be doing so badly in practice....

I am starting to get the feeling that there is sometype of personnel grudge between Lavar and linsey the linebacker coach. To me Holdman has not been playing good defense, he doesn't have anything resembling make-up speed and is in realitya docile hitter (although he does wrap up well)

[redskin_rich]

I've been trying to stay out of this speculation myself but I am of the opinion that this coaching staff values being mistake free over physical ability.That is why Holdman is starting and Arrington is not. That's my over-simplistic view of the situation w/LaVar.
As to why LA is not involved in many pass rushing packages, I have no clue. Even if he is undisciplined, you can't really screw up the assignment of applying pressure and/or sacking the QB.

[S.Taylor36]

If Lavar is undisciplined, and makes so many mistakes why can't we just put him at DE and have him as a straight up pass rusher? Lavar can get to the QB and he can also drop into coverage if needed. Lavar is not going anywhere, so why not use his athletic ability to the fullest. Lavar must play.

[Redskin4Life]

As painful as it is for me to say this (being a LaVar fan), I DON'T CARE.

I don't care HOW we WIN, I just want us to WIN.

I don't care if GW wants the CHEAPEST guys starting every game and all the expensive guys on the bench if we are WINNING.

I don't care if JG doesn't want to play Ramsey cause he's not more of a Christian than Brunell as long as we are WINNING.

I don't care that JG gave up 5 draft picks to get Campbell, who will probably sit on the bench for the next TWO years, as long as we are WINNING.

I'm not ready to sell my soul or anything like that but I just want to WIN damn it?!?!? The Eagles run is over... this is their last year. I want the Redskins era to begin and if that doesn't include LaVar or Ramsey... so be it. I'm done with being so mediocre and want greatness for our TEAM.

[EberKain]

I think LaVar could help our Defense if he is on the field, I really dont see him hurting it. That said, Gibbs said plain as day in the 10/3 press conference that LaVar is not a starter and is only involved in a couple packages. He dodged questions about LaVars health and said it was a player to coach thing.

My reaction to that interview has me thinking that LaVar has one foot out the door. His contract is for something like 14 mil next year, you don't pay non-starters that kind of money. 10/1 that we deal him to move up in next years draft, provided there is someone we want.

[openallnight]

Holdman to me has not lit anything up? He only has 6 friggin tackles in 4 games? Doesn't sound to effective. Where are the trunovers? Did Willaims not say he was disappointed by the late collapse against Seattle in the 4th quarter and the play at Linebacker? Ummmm, Hellllooooo.
This is why I think we see alot of #56 this week. Denver runs ALOT of misdirection, if you don't play you're assignments they will kill you. Anybody that saw the undisciplined KC D get torched on MNF is can bear witness to this. It will prove an excellent test to just how disciplined or undisciplined he can play in this system.

[tomlcollins]

As pointed out by others, the bottom line is that Greg Williams is weighing how many spectacular plays LA makes for us vs how many points LA gives up on spectacular plays by the opposition because LA is out of position.

And you can't play him simply because he is a fan favorite. Thats not how a winning team can do business.

Williams doesn't have to play him because he's a fan favorite. He has to play him because he's a BETTER PLAYER THAN HOLDMAN!!! What seems to be so hard to understand about that with you haters out there??

I'm amazed at how quickly Arrington becomes expendable simply b/c Williams skirts every question with, "He doesn't fit in our 'packages'." You people are freakin' crazy......

I also love the, "I don't care if he plays or not as long as we win" type of comments. You do realize that we're not exactly winning these games in a commanding fashion, right? I'm as happy as the next fan that we're undefeated, but I'm not so neive that I believe that our defense is so almighty and powerful that Arrington couldn't possibly help it be any better than it is...WTF???

We have contained other offenses pretty effectively thus far. Have we done it as effectively as last year, NO! Can Arrington help make us better, HELL YES! Where is the argument here? I fail to see how him being on the bench and Holdman being in the game is a good thing....

[Redskinfan28]

Williams doesn't have to play him because he's a fan favorite. He has to play him because he's a BETTER PLAYER THAN HOLDMAN!!! What seems to be so hard to understand about that with you haters out there??

I'm amazed at how quickly Arrington becomes expendable simply b/c Williams skirts every question with, "He doesn't fit in our 'packages'." You people are freakin' crazy......

I also love the, "I don't care if he plays or not as long as we win" type of comments. You do realize that we're not exactly winning these games in a commanding fashion, right? I'm as happy as the next fan that we're undefeated, but I'm not so neive that I believe that our defense is so almighty and powerful that Arrington couldn't possibly help it be any better than it is...WTF???

We have contained other offenses pretty effectively thus far. Have we done it as effectively as last year, NO! Can Arrington help make us better, HELL YES! Where is the argument here? I fail to see how him being on the bench and Holdman being in the game is a good thing....

Relax man. You realize that noone on this board has the ability to make Lavar play more or less, so stop yelling and whining about it here. Gregg Williams will play him when he thinks Lavar will help the team win more than Holdman will. If you disagree, perhaps you could write Williams a letter expressing your view - I'm sure he would take it into consideration.

[Redskin4Life]

I love how some of us will go on and on about how great LaVar is but not be concerned about the fact that he doesn't put the team first. And I love the people that say Champ and Lavern were cancers on our teams but are doing the SAME THING that LaVar is doing, they think they're better than the TEAM.

Do I think LaVar is more talented than any LB on our team? Yes, I do. But if he's not disciplined enough to not to play his position/assignment or isn't getting the system, then he's more of a LIABILITY on the field than an asset.

Don't be blinded by talent... this isn't basketball, where talent alone can win games. This isn't checkers... this is CHESS, MAN. The pawn can take down the King just as well as the Queen if you move your pieces correctly.

[Cruising270]

I'm not ready to sell my soul or anything like that but I just want to WIN damn it?!?!?

I didn't want to say anything but yeah I sold my soul at the end of last season, that's how we're 3-0.

Well worth it so far!!!! :lol1:

[Redskin4Life]

I didn't want to say anything but yeah I sold my soul at the end of last season, that's how we're 3-0.

Well worth it so far!!!! :lol1:
Hahahahahahaahaha... I tried to sell mine but he said 'NO' and that I was asking for too much. I wanted the Skins to win the Superbowl and NC State to win a BCS game.

[tomlcollins]

Relax man. You realize that noone on this board has the ability to make Lavar play more or less, so stop yelling and whining about it here. Gregg Williams will play him when he thinks Lavar will help the team win more than Holdman will. If you disagree, perhaps you could write Williams a letter expressing your view - I'm sure he would take it into consideration.

Maybe you could try forming opinions about players that aren't entirely based on what Gregg Williams thinks. Last I checked, Gregg Williams has an OPINION of players just as I have an OPINION. I'm not whining about anything. I'm stating the obvious, fool. It doesn't take NFL coaching experience to know that Arrington can effectively contribute to the defense in ways Holdman could only dream of. And no....I don't live in a fantasy world like many of the members of this board who believe their opinions really matter to the coaching staff, but I do enjoy arguing my meaningless opinions against weak ass one like yours, for instance.

Tell you what, I'll write a letter to Williams explaining my views while you live your dream of tossing his salad. How's that sound?
I figure I've about matched the level of sarcasm met in your posting above, so I'll stop here.....

[Keino]

I love how some of us will go on and on about how great LaVar is but not be concerned about the fact that he doesn't put the team first. And I love the people that say Champ and Lavern were cancers on our teams but are doing the SAME THING that LaVar is doing, they think they're better than the TEAM.

Do I think LaVar is more talented than any LB on our team? Yes, I do. But if he's not disciplined enough to not to play his position/assignment or isn't getting the system, then he's more of a LIABILITY on the field than an asset.

Don't be blinded by talent... this isn't basketball, where talent alone can win games. This isn't checkers... this is CHESS, MAN. The pawn can take down the King just as well as the Queen if you move your pieces correctly.

What Specifically has Lavar done or said to indicate to you that he is putting himself before the team?

This is the running mantra I don't get. He has said and done all of the right things. No Competitor should be happy with limited playing time, but he hasn't ran to the media crying about it. When asked pointed and specific comments about it, he gives the "Packages and Holdman is doing the job" answers.

I hardly this is putting oneself beforte the team:
"I'm a part of the team," Arrington said, "and however they want to use me is up to them. I'm here. I don't want my situation to be a distraction and a problem. We're 3-0, and obviously what we're doing, something is right. Do I hate being off the field? Of course. I hate not playing, but what can I do? I don't make those decisions. The finger gets pointed at me like, 'Why aren't you playing, LaVar?' Or, 'What is LaVar doing wrong not to be playing?' I'm here on time, I don't get in trouble off the field, and I don't get in trouble on the field. I do what I'm asked to do. Right now I'm asked to sit and watch, and that's what I'm doing."

[Redskinfan28]

Maybe you could try forming opinions about players that aren't entirely based on what Gregg Williams thinks. Last I checked, Gregg Williams has an OPINION of players just as I have an OPINION. I'm not whining about anything. I'm stating the obvious, fool. It doesn't take NFL coaching experience to know that Arrington can effectively contribute to the defense in ways Holdman could only dream of. And no....I don't live in a fantasy world like many of the members of this board who believe their opinions really matter to the coaching staff, but I do enjoy arguing my meaningless opinions against weak ass one like yours, for instance.

Tell you what, I'll write a letter to Williams explaining my views while you live your dream of tossing his salad. How's that sound?
I figure I've about matched the level of sarcasm met in your posting above, so I'll stop here.....

How can you form an opinion on Arrington? Do you watch practice? Are you at Redskin Park everyday? No, you base your opinion on how Arrington played 3 years ago. However, after knee injuries and surgeries, he may not be the same player - only the coaches know. I'll trust them over your worthless opinion.

[CNYSkinFan]

What Specifically has Lavar done or said to indicate to you that he is putting himself before the team?

This is the running mantra I don't get. He has said and done all of the right things. No Competitor should be happy with limited playing time, but he hasn't ran to the media crying about it. When asked pointed and specific comments about it, he gives the "Packages and Holdman is doing the job" answers.

I hardly this is putting oneself beforte the team:

I was going to post that but you beat me to it Keino.

Lavar is doing everything right ...just like Ramsey...with the benching. you keep both. Neither are causing waves, both are doing what is asked. Ramsey you get rid of after the year because you have Campbell behind him. Lavar will get worked into the starting lineup soon. I can almost guarantee it.

[nicefellow31]

What Specifically has Lavar done or said to indicate to you that he is putting himself before the team?

This is the running mantra I don't get. He has said and done all of the right things. No Competitor should be happy with limited playing time, but he hasn't ran to the media crying about it. When asked pointed and specific comments about it, he gives the "Packages and Holdman is doing the job" answers.

I hardly this is putting oneself beforte the team:
I agree. What has he done that has been disruptive. He is saying the same thing as the coaches about "packages, etc......."

[CNYSkinFan]

Maybe you could try forming opinions about players that aren't entirely based on what Gregg Williams thinks. Last I checked, Gregg Williams has an OPINION of players just as I have an OPINION. I'm not whining about anything. I'm stating the obvious, fool. It doesn't take NFL coaching experience to know that Arrington can effectively contribute to the defense in ways Holdman could only dream of. And no....I don't live in a fantasy world like many of the members of this board who believe their opinions really matter to the coaching staff, but I do enjoy arguing my meaningless opinions against weak ass one like yours, for instance.

Tell you what, I'll write a letter to Williams explaining my views while you live your dream of tossing his salad. How's that sound?
I figure I've about matched the level of sarcasm met in your posting above, so I'll stop here.....

Wow butthole of the day award to tomlcollins

Dude we all want Lavar to play more but I will tell you what. If GW does not play him that isn fine with me. Why? #3 ranked defense last year. Top rated defense this year.....that is why. I will trust GW's decisions over any poster on this board, including myself. So go on and be angry. I will be right over here with my redskin bretheren celebrating 3-0. Anytime you want to join come on over.

[BurgundyNGold]

Maybe you could try forming opinions about players that aren't entirely based on what Gregg Williams thinks. Last I checked, Gregg Williams has an OPINION of players just as I have an OPINION.
The difference is that GW gets paid for his opinion. You don't. I would think that gives him a little bit more credibility.

I'm not whining about anything. I'm stating the obvious, fool. It doesn't take NFL coaching experience to know that Arrington can effectively contribute to the defense in ways Holdman could only dream of. And no....I don't live in a fantasy world like many of the members of this board who believe their opinions really matter to the coaching staff, but I do enjoy arguing my meaningless opinions against weak ass one like yours, for instance.
If Arrington is out of position but Holdman isn't, which do you think is helping the team more? If Arrington exhibits poor tackling skills and Woldman demonstrates that he is a sure tackler, which do you think is helping the team more? Watch the film; you'll see what I'm talking about.

Tell you what, I'll write a letter to Williams explaining my views while you live your dream of tossing his salad. How's that sound?
I figure I've about matched the level of sarcasm met in your posting above, so I'll stop here.....
You should write GW a letter. Maybe he'll read it.

[whitskins]

Maybe you could try forming opinions about players that aren't entirely based on what Gregg Williams thinks. Last I checked, Gregg Williams has an OPINION of players just as I have an OPINION. I'm not whining about anything. I'm stating the obvious, fool. It doesn't take NFL coaching experience to know that Arrington can effectively contribute to the defense in ways Holdman could only dream of. And no....I don't live in a fantasy world like many of the members of this board who believe their opinions really matter to the coaching staff, but I do enjoy arguing my meaningless opinions against weak ass one like yours, for instance.

Tell you what, I'll write a letter to Williams explaining my views while you live your dream of tossing his salad. How's that sound?
I figure I've about matched the level of sarcasm met in your posting above, so I'll stop here.....

Tone down your act, no one cares how passionate you are about Lavar if you're going to disrespect people like that.

And clearly Lavar is on the bench for a reason, why is that so hard to understand? Lavar is coming off two knee operations, who knows if he's the same player you obviously fell head over heels for over the last five years. Have you been at every practice since training camp? No, you haven't, so stop talking like you're a better coach than the guy currently leading a top 5 NFL defense.

I love guys like this, first Gibbs is a moron for picking Brunell, then he turns out to be right, so we're just gonna go ahead and second guess our defensive coordinator to death instead. Get over it and grow up.

[silverspring]

Lavar will get worked into the starting lineup soon. I can almost guarantee it.

I think you are right. Although it seems there is still some communication issue between lavar and the coaches that needs to be cleared up. No way they just sit him all year and don't give him his shot. Maybe they are testing his knee or something. Whatever it is it would probably be better if they just put it in the open so when reporters do ask him questions they can give their answer and it doesn't cause a distraction. Although I am sure they have their reasons, I think they are creating a distraction and putting lavar in a tough spot by not airing whatever the plan is to the public.

Lavar will get his shot. That is his spot and at the very least he should get his shot on the field to earn it back. It is just a matter of time.

[tomlcollins]

Tone down your act, no one cares how passionate you are about Lavar if you're going to disrespect people like that.

And clearly Lavar is on the bench for a reason, why is that so hard to understand? Lavar is coming off two knee operations, who knows if he's the same player you obviously fell head over heels for over the last five years. Have you been at every practice since training camp? No, you haven't, so stop talking like you're a better coach than the guy currently leading a top 5 NFL defense.

I love guys like this, first Gibbs is a moron for picking Brunell, then he turns out to be right, so we're just gonna go ahead and second guess our defensive coordinator to death instead. Get over it and grow up.

Look here:
First of all, I was simply responding to disrespectful comments directed towards myself.
Second of all, no I don't think I know more about the game of football than Williams. Yes, I do think that you have to be a little off in your reasoning to play a healthy Holdman over a healthy Arrington. Health apparently isn't an issue, so what gives? I'm not exactly alone in this belief, pal, although some tend to be less vocal about it than others, and some seem to simply sit back and rah-rah about our defense (which I know and believe is already great even without Arrington) without realizing that there is always room for improvement.
Third of all, pal, I'm not one of your "guys like this". Let's not make completely unfounded accusations b/c they do nothing but make you look like an ass in the end.
Case in point: I've supported the quarterback decision from day one. As a matter of fact, I called for giving Ramsey the hook before the regular season even started. So....guess I wasn't second guessing, but instead simply using common sense to make glaringly obvious observations about who should be taking snaps for the Skins.
Funny...seems to be the same thing I'm doing about who should be playing OLB.
I must finally be growing up to be able to make such informed decisions.

[tomlcollins]

If Arrington is out of position but Holdman isn't, which do you think is helping the team more? If Arrington exhibits poor tackling skills and Woldman demonstrates that he is a sure tackler, which do you think is helping the team more? Watch the film; you'll see what I'm talking about.



Wow, you are right.....I am so, so, sorry about that.

5 tackles in 3 games is stupendous!!! Wow, this guy is on his way to the Pro Bowl with that solid tackling ability. Who would of thunk the Skins would have a Pro Bowl OLB more dominating than Arrington?

And oh, the letter comment was in response to the previous post. Try reading ahead before you start throwing out such snappy and creative little zingers.

[whitskins]

Look here:
First of all, I was simply responding to disrespectful comments directed towards myself.
Second of all, no I don't think I know more about the game of football than Williams. Yes, I do think that you have to be a little off in your reasoning to play a healthy Holdman over a healthy Arrington. Health apparently isn't an issue, so what gives? I'm not exactly alone in this belief, pal, although some tend to be less vocal about it than others, and some seem to simply sit back and rah-rah about our defense (which I know and believe is already great even without Arrington) without realizing that there is always room for improvement.
Third of all, jackass, I'm not one of your "guys like this". Let's not make completely unfounded accusations b/c they do nothing but make you look like an ass in the end.
Case in point: I've supported the quarterback decision from day one. As a matter of fact, I called for giving Ramsey the hook before the regular season even started. So....guess I wasn't second guessing, but instead simply using common sense to make glaringly obvious observations about who should be taking snaps for the Skins.
Funny...seems to be the same thing I'm doing about who should be playing OLB.
I must finally be growing up to be able to make such informed decisions.

Nobody was disrespectful to you before you shot your mouth off like a jerk. Get off the cross, the worst thing anyone said was when Redskinsfan28 said you were whining, WHICH YOU WERE, and that's hardly cause for calling people names and generally acting like a clown which is what you are now doing. If you have any experience on this board you know that stuff isn't tolerated, but keep calling me a jackass if you think you're somehow above it. You won't last here very long.

You need to jump down from your high horse and stop crying. This decision has been made and until it is changed deal with it. If Lavar Arrington were a better choice at OLB he would be playing, our coaching staff isn't paid millions of dollars to put a sub-standard team on the field for kicks. You get paid nothing to mouth off and second-guess. At least do it with a different attitude and without making yourself a martyr. You're more comic relief right now than an engaging football fan.

And your opinions aren't any more informed other than spouting "Lavar is better than Holdman... DUH!!!". And if you feel the need to be calling people names like fool and jackass then yes you do need to grow up. I'm sure you're a real tough guy behind your keyboard but nobody really cares, act like an adult or get lost.

[DoGood]

If Arrington is out of position but Holdman isn't, which do you think is helping the team more? If Arrington exhibits poor tackling skills and Woldman demonstrates that he is a sure tackler, which do you think is helping the team more? Watch the film; you'll see what I'm talking about.


I'll watch the film and not see Warrick Holdman ANYWHERE. He doesn't seem to be anywhere near the ball even though if I was the opposing offense that is definately where I would run instead of at Marcus Washington.

Lavar is a playmaker and a turnover machine which is what we desperately need. We need him on the field.

[GibbsRules!]

Man...it's a bummer to see Redskin fans bickering over this. We should be savoring the success of our team. I understand the passion on both sides, but we definately don't have all the facts.

Hopefully GW will shed a little light on the situation on Thursday. Isn't that when he meets with the press?

[DoGood]

Man...it's a bummer to see Redskin fans bickering over this. We should be savoring the success of our team.

Hopefully GW will shed a little light on the situation on Thursday. Isn't that when he meets with the press?

I have a feeling whatever the decision with Lavar ends up being, there is going to be a lot of unhappy people second guessing the decision.

Remember people getting upset over pulling Ramsey? If Lavar doesn't see some serious time soon or worse (god forbid), the backlash would be 10 fold.

Lavar is MR. Redskin incase you haven't seen the tons of #56 jerseys in the stands on gameday.

[whitskins]

I have a feeling whatever the decision with Lavar ends up being, there is going to be a lot of unhappy people second guessing the decision.

Remember people getting upset over pulling Ramsey? If Lavar doesn't see some serious time soon or worse (god forbid), the backlash would be 10 fold.

Lavar is MR. Redskin incase you haven't seen the tons of #56 jerseys in the stands on gameday.

If the backlash is 10 fold then that simply implies how misguided some of our fanbase is when they're complaining over a single player not being on the field when we're 3-0 and the defense is #5 in the league. That's just absurd.

And yeah there were a heck of a lot of #56 jerseys in the stands as usual but I'd wager that the vast majority of the people in those jerseys were more concerned with seeing a WIN on Sunday than a Lavar Arrington sighting.

Yeah, we all love Lavar, but I love wins more. The coaches make decisions based on what gives us the best chance to win, and that's exactly what they've done thus far.

If so-called fans want to create a backlash over a single player's PT while this team is a winner for the first time in years... Then I can't really respond to that, it's too crazy for words.

[GibbsRules!]

I have a feeling whatever the decision with Lavar ends up being, there is going to be a lot of unhappy people second guessing the decision.

Remember people getting upset over pulling Ramsey? If Lavar doesn't see some serious time soon or worse (god forbid), the backlash would be 10 fold.

Lavar is MR. Redskin incase you haven't seen the tons of #56 jerseys in the stands on gameday.

Believe me...I noticed and I'm a Lavar fan myself, but I don't see a point in beating each other over the head when all the facts haven't come out. Everything we are hearing is encrypted right now as PSF mentioned.

[GWBlitzST]

I'll watch the film and not see Warrick Holdman ANYWHERE. He doesn't seem to be anywhere near the ball even though if I was the opposing offense that is definately where I would run instead of at Marcus Washington.

Lavar is a playmaker and a turnover machine which is what we desperately need. We need him on the field.
Warrick Holdman has been a ghost. I've watched all the games more than once, and there hasn't been a play yet that he's made a difference other than a tipped pass, which I give him some credit for, but it's ONE play. His 5 tackles would have bee executed by someone else had he not gotten their an instant before them. Lavar is a playmaker, that's why he gets paid so much. Remember when we started 0-5 and Lavar singlehandedly got us back on our feet? Now he must sit on the bench and watch as a real team is finally around him and he can't even be a part of it. Not to mention I'm sure he feels like a jerk for resigning to a long term deal here only for this to happen.
If nothing else play him in home games at least some in each series just to keep the fans and players that much more intense. I'll be damned if he can't do as good a job as Chris Clemons as being a blitzing linebacker in those packages. I felt he was disruptive in preseason when he was in games, and I really just want to see him a little more, even if he isn't starting.

[DoGood]

Believe me...I noticed and I'm a Lavar fan myself, but I don't see a point in beating each other over the head when all the facts haven't come out. Everything we are hearing is encrypted right now as PSF mentioned.
Believe me I wasn't beating anyone over the head. In fact you have to give this coaching staff the benefit of the doubt in any and all football matters. But Lavar is the heart and soul of the Redskins and such players cannot be easily dismissed. Plus I have a real hard time believing that Holdman helps us win games more than Lavar could.

[skins4life24]

why do people feel the need to harshly attack other peoples opinions on this site . . . its ridiculous we are all skins fans . . . i am not saying i don't agree with some of the stuff written here but there is a way to have varying opinions with out ridiculing others ideas mabye TomlCollins should look back at some of the other threads before he starts throwing out insults next time.

[DoGood]

why do people feel the need to harshly attack other peoples opinions on this site . . . its ridiculous we are all skins fans . . . i am not saying i don't agree with some of the stuff written here but there is a way to have varying opinions with out ridiculing others ideas mabye TomlCollins should look back at some of the other threads before he starts throwing out insults next time.
Agreed:helpme: We're under attack!

[whitskins]

Warrick Holdman has been a ghost. I've watched all the games more than once, and there hasn't been a play yet that he's made a difference other than a tipped pass, which I give him some credit for, but it's ONE play. His 5 tackles would have bee executed by someone else had he not gotten their an instant before them. Lavar is a playmaker, that's why he gets paid so much. Remember when we started 0-5 and Lavar singlehandedly got us back on our feet? Now he must sit on the bench and watch as a real team is finally around him and he can't even be a part of it. Not to mention I'm sure he feels like a jerk for resigning to a long term deal here only for this to happen.
If nothing else play him in home games at least some in each series just to keep the fans and players that much more intense. I'll be damned if he can't do as good a job as Chris Clemons as being a blitzing linebacker in those packages. I felt he was disruptive in preseason when he was in games, and I really just want to see him a little more, even if he isn't starting.

If Warrick Holdman isn't playing very well then really it shouldn't be too hard for Lavar to get his job back. The comments like Buges made yesterday about Lavar having to "buy into the system" don't really bode all that well in my mind but it's not like Lavar has a Pro Bowler in front of him, with some determination Lavar should be able to beat this guy out no questions asked.

I think Lavar must be clearly making many mental errors on the field (when he's actually in) and in practice for this to be happening. Remember against Dallas Lavar started the game and then played only a handful of more plays. I think Gregg Williams is seeing something in him that he doesn't like and it's mostly likely his commitment to playing his role in this defense.

After all the pleading we have done as fans for the coaches to install a complete team first attitude, I can't debate GW's decision. I hold Lavar accountable for why he is not in the lineup because he is obviously a much more talented player than Holdman, so if Lavar is 100% healthy there should be no reason why he cannot get his job back.

[silverspring]

I want to try to put this in a valid context and compare performance. We are on the second year of the GW system now so i think it is fair to compare last year to this year.

So when you look at that LB spot in the GW defense this year and compare it to last year I see a major difference. Lemar was always making tackles and around the ball last year, he stood out and made an impact even though he is not a big impact player like lavar.

Holdman may play in position, but he is not standing out to me or making much of an impact like lemar did last year. Is it because they were running more plays at lemar last year and not at holdman this year? I don't think so but who knows. Anyways I think it pretty easy to argue that while Holdman is getting the job done in the GW system he isn't making the impact that we need in that position.

So with that being said IMO there must be a reason other than performance that is holding Lavar back from playing time. I hope the coaches aren't holding a grudge because while Lavar has been immature at times he is clearly a dedicated skin and we need anything to help us win. I have a feeling though it must be more than just a grudge.

[akhhorus]

Nobody was disrespectful to you before you shot your mouth off like a jerk. Get off the cross, the worst thing anyone said was when Redskinsfan28 said you were whining, WHICH YOU WERE, and that's hardly cause for calling people names and generally acting like a clown which is what you are now doing. If you have any experience on this board you know that stuff isn't tolerated, but keep calling me a jackass if you think you're somehow above it. You won't last here very long.

You need to jump down from your high horse and stop crying. This decision has been made and until it is changed deal with it. If Lavar Arrington were a better choice at OLB he would be playing, our coaching staff isn't paid millions of dollars to put a sub-standard team on the field for kicks. You get paid nothing to mouth off and second-guess. At least do it with a different attitude and without making yourself a martyr. You're more comic relief right now than an engaging football fan.

And your opinions aren't any more informed other than spouting "Lavar is better than Holdman... DUH!!!". And if you feel the need to be calling people names like fool and jackass then yes you do need to grow up. I'm sure you're a real tough guy behind your keyboard but nobody really cares, act like an adult or get lost.

Please do not let tomlcollins besmirch the good names of us Charlestonians who come to HR. We're usually more polite and less guilty of douchebaggery.

[PennSkinsFan]

Civility people, civility. Why is there more civility between member when the team is 0-3? Attack opinions all you want, but leave personal remarks out of it.

Bottom line for me on this argument, as I stated prior, I think there are several underlying reasons Lavar is not playing, and I do not believe it has a darn thing to do with 'packages for Lavar' That is bullcrap. What other player on this defense has specific packages for them? Marcus Washington? Lemar Marshall? Shawn Springs? Phillip Daniels? Cornelius Griffin? Sean taylor? I think not. Don't buy the hoopla coming out of Redskins Park. Its a combo thing, with the main poitn being, the team is 3-0, the defense is ranked and playing well, and they did so last year as well, all without Lavar. Good reasoning? Not really. Why? I happen to think the defense would even be better with Lavar, not to mention your paying him huge chunks of cash. Fact is, Linebackers collapsed as per GW last week late in the game, Holdman is not a play maker, he has a measley 5 tackles in three games, he really has not been an active froce, and the other biggie fact is, lack of turnovers, which I think lavar can help spark. To me it is attitude of winning by what your doing combined with a few personal grudges ont he Satff with Lavar.

In the end, win without him, i think we win bigger with him. He is a play maker and can and has caused turnover, which we seem to be unable to do.

[tomlcollins]

If you have any experience on this board you know that stuff isn't tolerated, but keep calling me a jackass if you think you're somehow above it. You won't last here very long.

You need to jump down from your high horse and stop crying. This decision has been made and until it is changed deal with it. If Lavar Arrington were a better choice at OLB he would be playing, our coaching staff isn't paid millions of dollars to put a sub-standard team on the field for kicks. You get paid nothing to mouth off and second-guess. At least do it with a different attitude and without making yourself a martyr. You're more comic relief right now than an engaging football fan.

And your opinions aren't any more informed other than spouting "Lavar is better than Holdman... DUH!!!". And if you feel the need to be calling people names like fool and jackass then yes you do need to grow up. I'm sure you're a real tough guy behind your keyboard but nobody really cares, act like an adult or get lost.

Well, I'm glad I can amuse you, fool. Since my opinions aren't very informed, here is a link to a complex statistical analysis of the Redskins defensive performance this year....still # 5?:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef.php

Here, you can compare it to last year if you like:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef2004.php

I can explain the numbers to you if you would like, but it's sort of complicated and I really don't have the time unless you really, really need assistance:

Here's a guide for ya:
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/methods.php

I can also break it down in simpler terms by player if you would like, based on 60 plays/game by the defense: Holdman has 5 tackles over let's say 150 snaps (that's probably way too low). Arrington 2 tackles over 20 snaps (that's probably being generous). This equates to Arrington making a tackle on 10% of the snaps he takes and Holdman on 3%. Would you like to argue that??

He's simply a better player who wants to play so badly that the coaches need not worry about him "freelancing".

[whitskins]

Tomlcollins, it's been nice knowing you, maybe sometime we'll be able to continue this conversation in person, but until then good night and good luck.

Also, good job editing out the several expletives you aimed at me before you could be banned. You're a real class act.

[GibbsRules!]

Forget it...it's useless

[whitskins]

Well, I'm glad I can amuse you, fool. Since my opinions aren't very informed, here is a link to a complex statistical analysis of the Redskins defensive performance this year....still # 5?:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef.php

Here, you can compare it to last year if you like:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef2004.php

I can explain the numbers to you if you would like, but it's sort of complicated and I really don't have the time unless you really, really need assistance:

Here's a guide for ya:
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/methods.php

I can also break it down in simpler terms by player if you would like, based on 60 plays/game by the defense: Holdman has 5 tackles over let's say 150 snaps (that's probably way too low). Arrington 2 tackles over 20 snaps (that's probably being generous). This equates to Arrington making a tackle on 10% of the snaps he takes and Holdman on 3%. Would you like to argue that??

He's simply a better player who wants to play so badly that the coaches need not worry about him "freelancing".

So I'm supposed to trust football outsiders over Gregg Williams? That's just hilarious, put up all the websites and stats you want, my allegiance goes to the guy who lead this team to a #3 ranking in 04 and a #5 ranking right now. And yeah, according to NFL.com (I hope they're a good enough authority) we are #5 in total defense in the NFL.

But thanks for editing this post, it was much easier to read without all the frequent expletives and insults. Shouldn't you be giving Lavar his foot massage by now?

[PennSkinsFan]

So I'm supposed to trust football outsiders over Gregg Williams? That's just hilarious, put up all the websites and stats you want, my allegiance goes to the guy who lead this team to a #3 ranking in 04 and a #5 ranking right now. And yeah, according to NFL.com (I hope they're a good enough authority) we are #5 in total defense in the NFL.

But thanks for editing this post, it was much easier to read without all the frequent expletives and insults. Shouldn't you be giving Lavar his foot massage by now?

The one argument I have FOR putting Lavar in, is I think even with a 5th ranked defense, we would be even better with Arrington. This defense is not creating tunrovers, Gibbs has mentioned that, and I think Lavar could help with that. he has caused turnovers in the past and willd o so again. I really do think this is more personal than it is Holdman's performance.

[BurgundyNGold]

Wow, you are right.....I am so, so, sorry about that.

5 tackles in 3 games is stupendous!!! Wow, this guy is on his way to the Pro Bowl with that solid tackling ability. Who would of thunk the Skins would have a Pro Bowl OLB more dominating than Arrington?

And oh, the letter comment was in response to the previous post. Try reading ahead before you start throwing out such snappy and creative little zingers.
Actually, I was referring to LaVar's uncanny ability to be out of position and to miss tackles while going for the big hit, but I don't suspect that you actually see when LaVar does that. The coaches do, though. What does that say when Holdman ony has 5 tackles, but the coaches still think that's better than having LaVar in there?

[PennSkinsFan]

Actually, I was referring to LaVar's uncanny ability to be out of position and to miss tackles while going for the big hit, but I don't suspect that you actually see when LaVar does that. The coaches do, though. What does that say when Holdman ony has 5 tackles, but the coaches still think that's better than having LaVar in there?Not sure they actaully think that. Don't buy the corporate word, there is more to it

[BurgundyNGold]

I'll watch the film and not see Warrick Holdman ANYWHERE. He doesn't seem to be anywhere near the ball even though if I was the opposing offense that is definately where I would run instead of at Marcus Washington.
I'm talking about LaVar. He's the one who is apparently not buying into the system and he's the one who has been known to be out of position, regardless of who the DC is that year. While I don't personally agree with GW's decision, I can understand it.

Lavar is a playmaker and a turnover machine which is what we desperately need. We need him on the field.
I agree with you, but that's up to LaVar.

[PennSkinsFan]

I'm talking about LaVar. He's the one who is apparently not buying into the system and he's the one who has been known to be out of position, regardless of who the DC is that year. While I don't personally agree with GW's decision, I can understand it.


I agree with you, but that's up to LaVar.

Wait, where did you read Lavar was not buying into the system?

[BurgundyNGold]

Not sure they actaully think that. Don't buy the corporate word, there is more to it
There may be, but you and I both know that we can't base our opinions of conjecture and "might be"s. We have to try and ascertain what's going on with the available information. As it is and for whatever reason, GW has decided that he is more comfortable having a FA journeyman WLB in there instead of LaVar. We know that LaVar has always been a bit of a freelancer out there. We also know that GW perfers guys who play a certain way as opposed to the more physically gifted, yet less disciplined players. Add in what Buges said and it's not a stretch to think that LaVar isn't buying in and GW isn't going to have any of it.

[tomlcollins]

Shouldn't you be giving Lavar his foot massage by now?

Yeah, I'll be over to give you your face massage when I'm done.
Don't forget to give Gregg Williams a reacharound when he's done with you, it's the only polite thing to do.

[IowaSkinsFan]

whitskins and tomlcollins:

Stop the personal attacks.

[BurgundyNGold]

Wait, where did you read Lavar was not buying into the system?
I'm basing this on comments by Bugel and others. Nothing in print that I can recall. Plus, it's not far fetched to think that LaVar isn't very flexible with what it is that he will and will not do. His displeasure with what Marvin Lewis had him doing is well documented. BTW, that was the one season where I think he actually earned his pro bowl appearance.

[akhhorus]

Yeah, I'll be over to give you your face massage when I'm done.
Don't forget to give Gregg Williams a reacharound when he's done with you, it's the only polite thing to do.

Classy. And Im quoting you so you can't edit it out after you realize you could get into trouble.

[lakeskin]

The one argument I have FOR putting Lavar in, is I think even with a 5th ranked defense, we would be even better with Arrington. This defense is not creating tunrovers, Gibbs has mentioned that, and I think Lavar could help with that. he has caused turnovers in the past and willd o so again. I really do think this is more personal than it is Holdman's performance.

This defense needs to be causing havoc. I have yet to hear Holdman's name called out for making any kind of play. Lavar is a game changer while Holdman is a place holder(apperently not for Lavar tho).

Last week we faced a good offense for the first time this season and they pretty much moved the ball at will on us in the 2nd half. This defense isnt causing turnovers and it isnt making enuff game altering plays. LAvar can change that. Holdman cannot.

[tomlcollins]

Classy. And Im quoting you so you can't edit it out after you realize you could get into trouble.

Haha, I'm oh so worried about getting into trouble. I'm not in fourth grade, buddy. I edited it out because I felt as is if I was being a little harsh on the guy, and he then goes back and puts in his little smartass comments after seeing what I've done. Without those the reacharound wouldn't be possible, so talk to him, not me.

[whitskins]

The one argument I have FOR putting Lavar in, is I think even with a 5th ranked defense, we would be even better with Arrington. This defense is not creating tunrovers, Gibbs has mentioned that, and I think Lavar could help with that. he has caused turnovers in the past and willd o so again. I really do think this is more personal than it is Holdman's performance.

I agree with you that Lavar would make the defense better, but I'm not inclined to believe that its a personal decision. I don't really see GW making our team significantly weaker because he doesn't like a guy. Now if he's benching him because Lavar doesn't buy into the system or whatever, that makes sense to me, but I don't think that's a personal decision, that has to do with on the field performance.

Basically if Lavar is 100% healthy then there should be no reason why he can't get HIMSELF on the field. He should be able to win the job back with one hand tied behind his back. He is a vastly superior physical speciman than Holdman.

[akhhorus]

Haha, I'm oh so worried about getting into trouble. I'm not in fourth grade, buddy. I edited it out because I felt as is if I was being a little harsh on the guy, and he then goes back and puts in his little smartass comments after seeing what I've done. Without those the reacharound wouldn't be possible, so talk to him, not me.

No, you edited out because either you realized swearing gets you into trouble here or someone told you to change it. If you were truly concerned with "being a little harsh" on anyone, you wouldn't be posting what you have been posting since then.

[Redskinfan28]

Haha, I'm oh so worried about getting into trouble. I'm not in fourth grade, buddy. I edited it out because I felt as is if I was being a little harsh on the guy, and he then goes back and puts in his little smartass comments after seeing what I've done. Without those the reacharound wouldn't be possible, so talk to him, not me.


Congrats, you have offended and attacked 3/4 of the regular posters on this board in less than 100 posts. Good job.

[PennSkinsFan]

I agree with you that Lavar would make the defense better, but I'm not inclined to believe that its a personal decision. I don't really see GW making our team significantly weaker because he doesn't like a guy. Now if he's benching him because Lavar doesn't buy into the system or whatever, that makes sense to me, but I don't think that's a personal decision, that has to do with on the field performance.

Basically if Lavar is 100% healthy then there should be no reason why he can't get HIMSELF on the field. He should be able to win the job back with one hand tied behind his back. He is a vastly superior physical speciman than Holdman.

I dunno Whit. Redskins Park tends to hold grudges, look at the long standing grduge against the Times, and now the Post, and yes with players too. Gregg Williams is defensive coach, Joe Gibbs is the main guy. If Gibbs deos not want Lavar playing, Lavar won't be playing. Gibbs is in control, period. I am not saying you ahve to buy into my argument, but i really do believe it is a combo of things, and yes, i happen to think the grievence and the balming of coaches for his injury status are all tasken into account. Too me, looking at it form an outside perspective, ti is just too obvious.

[whitskins]

I dunno Whit. Redskins Park tends to hold grudges, look at the long standing grduge against the Times, and now the Post, and yes with players too. Gregg Williams is defensive coach, Joe Gibbs is the main guy. If Gibbs deos not want Lavar playing, Lavar won't be playing. Gibbs is in control, period. I am not saying you ahve to buy into my argument, but i really do believe it is a combo of things, and yes, i happen to think the grievence and the balming of coaches for his injury status are all tasken into account. Too me, looking at it form an outside perspective, ti is just too obvious.

Yes, but wasn't it Gibbs who initiated the peace between Lavar and the organization? The Skins have obvious grudges with the local media but that doesn't have much influence on wins and loses. But you may be right, nobody knows for sure, but my inclination is that GW is trying to send a message about Lavar's play on the field and his commitment to his role on this defense than anything else.