Kicking Controversy

[PennSkinsFan]

Speak about the QB controversy that has been settled by Brunell excelllent playa nd a 3-0 record, tot he Lavar controversy of not playing, the one controversy brewing is KICKER. With no real way of analyzing true feelings because of lack of information, we still don't know enough about Nick Novak, all we know his he provided the game winning points the past two weeks. Maybe we would like to see more. BUT, at THIS POINT and time, if YOU had to make the call NOW, vote...

[skins74]

Right now you got to go with the youngster. He has done pretty well so far and Hall is still hurt. It seems like whenever Hall kicks off he hurts his leg so it's time to go with Novak.

[Redskin4Life]

I say send Hall to IR if he can't play next week and Novak plays well... a roster spot could be and is needed for someone else (WR please).

[tommahawk]

I went with Hall still.
I just don't like Novaks kickoff depth.
I am impressed by the two field goals in OT though and would like to keep Novak around untill I'm sure Hall can get healthy.

[Ibleedburgundy]

When John Hall kicks off the ball actually gets inside the 20. Novak is clutch but he doesn't have the power.

[SkinsFan4Life2003]

only problem I see is that we still don't know Novak's leg strength. On kickoffs he hasn't gotten them close to the endzone, but the kid stepped up and made the kick in overtime even after the penalty pushed him back 5yds he is good under pressure something that can't be said for most rookie kickers. However we don't know how strong Hall's leg is coming off the injury. So i would probably go with Novak until we're sure Hall is 100%.

[CarMike]

I say send Hall to IR if he can't play next week and Novak plays well... a roster spot could be and is needed for someone else (WR please).

Agree.

Plus, its too early to tell how well Novak really is. I liked that he kicked two OT field goals to win the game on Sunday.

But with Hall you have a kicker who you can depend on, with no questions asked.

[smoak]

I would have to see them kick in practice, but I prefer a 100% Hall over Novak.

[skins74]

Agree.

Plus, its too early to tell how well Novak really is. I liked that he kicked two OT field goals to win the game on Sunday.

But with Hall you have a kicker who you can depend on, with no questions asked.


It is too early to tell but if you had to pick one?



I would prefer Hall if I knew his leg wouldn't be a chonic problem.

[chrisbcbu]

only problem I see is that we still don't know Novak's leg strength. On kickoffs he hasn't gotten them close to the endzone, but the kid stepped up and made the kick in overtime even after the penalty pushed him back 5yds he is good under pressure something that can't be said for most rookie kickers. However we don't know how strong Hall's leg is coming off the injury. So i would probably go with Novak until we're sure Hall is 100%.

Against dallas he was hitting them on the goalline, so i still believe his kickoffs against Seattle was intentional.

however, right now i would have to go with the veteran(Hall) until we see more from Novak.

[Redskin-4-life]

I went with Hall, even though he's injured, when healthy he has been very consistant. Haven't seen Novak on a consistant basis to give him the nod over Hall.

[hockeygoalie29]

When John Hall kicks off the ball actually gets inside the 20. Novak is clutch but he doesn't have the power.

Guys, the short kickoffs were intentional and don't say a thing about Novak's leg strength. The kid hit 5 of 7 from beyond 50 yards in college so he definately has a leg.

I have to go with the healty rookie right now. Hall is a top tier kicker when he can play, but that hamstring of his really worries me. With Novak kicking two game winning field goals in overtime I feel confident that he won't fold under pressure.

[Kope65]

Novak if Hall doesn't play this week and the Kid does well. Would love to see him be our kicker for 10 years. Hell, I would love Noble to come back and kick if he could do it for 10 well years :)

[Spence]

Easy, you go with the guy who is healthy.

[IowaSkinsFan]

I'd go with Novak because history tells us kickers do not easily recover from leg injuries and are prone to re-injury.

[Keino]

I think you have to keep both at this point. Hall, when healthy is upper eschelon with the ability to nail 50+ yarders. Cutting Hall with a rookie replacement would be moronic at this point.

[MoeRedskins]

Go with Novak and get rid of all of the unproductive JetSkins from 2003.

[BurgundyNGold]

Wow, you guys are willing to gamble our season on a rookie kicker with exactly 2 career FGs and whose kicks barely find the 10 yard line? I'm not.

[RedskinsDave]

I think you have to keep both at this point. Hall, when healthy is upper eschelon with the ability to nail 50+ yarders. Cutting Hall with a rookie replacement would be moronic at this point.

I agree totally.

[Skinz4lyfe]

At this point right now I say Novak over Hall only because of Hall's inability to stay healthy.

[Patrick]

Agree.

Plus, its too early to tell how well Novak really is. I liked that he kicked two OT field goals to win the game on Sunday.

But with Hall you have a kicker who you can depend on, with no questions asked.


Watched Novak for three years at MD and he was always a reliable kicker. Needs to develop his KOs to the pro game but has the leg to do it IMO.

The problem with Hall is that we haven't been able to depend on him. He's always seems to have something wrong.

[bfauble83]

I think you have to keep both at this point. Hall, when healthy is upper eschelon with the ability to nail 50+ yarders. Cutting Hall with a rookie replacement would be moronic at this point.

I agree, Hall is one of the top kickers in the league when he is healthy enough to play.

[DoGood]

I picked the healthy body over John Hall.

But Novak doesn't seem to have the big leg of a normal NFL kicker and am a bit worried if we are faced with a 45 plus yarder.

[MDSkins#1]

novack simply b/c this kid was an undrafted rookie kicker out of MD and nailed the game winner in OT twice. im sure he felt the preeuse but didnt think about it as a game winner, just any other kick and won the game for us. in the fututre, he could be great

[GWBlitzST]

Wow, you guys are willing to gamble our season on a rookie kicker with exactly 2 career FGs and whose kicks barely find the 10 yard line? I'm not.
I'm feeling this post. I have a problem with fair catches on kickoffs. Although this week I would start Novac since we'll be in Denver.

[CarMike]

It is too early to tell but if you had to pick one?



I would prefer Hall if I knew his leg wouldn't be a chonic problem.
I'd go with Novak. As soon as we let Novak go he'll turn out to be the next David Akers.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Wow, you guys are willing to gamble our season on a rookie kicker with exactly 2 career FGs and whose kicks barely find the 10 yard line? I'm not.

Are you willing to risk a potential playoff spot on Hall's injured leg? Suppose we are in the stretch drive, playoff spot on the line and Hall injures his leg again. What do we do?

I'd take the sure thing, knowing exactly what I am likely to get from it, as opposed to the unknow with Hall.

[hockeygoalie29]

Are you willing to risk a potential playoff spot on Hall's injured leg? Suppose we are in the stretch drive, playoff spot on the line and Hall injures his leg again. What do we do?

I'd take the sure thing, knowing exactly what I am likely to get from it, as opposed to the unknow with Hall.

And by that time Novak has signed somewhere else, probably with Dallas.

[camasterton]

I'd go with Novak because history tells us kickers do not easily recover from leg injuries and are prone to re-injury.
John Kasey had reconstructive knee surgery and came back so everything is possible. Having said that, were in the now, in 1st place and you have to hold that position. Novak has done more than enough and that extra roster spot being held down by Hall could go to a special teams speedster/hitter who could help with field position. Most teams have that one truely standout ST ace. Who's our's?

[hockeygoalie29]

John Kasey had reconstructive knee surgery and came back so everything is possible. Having said that, were in the now, in 1st place and you have to hold that position. Novak has done more than enough and that extra roster spot being held down by Hall could go to a special teams speedster/hitter who could help with field position. Most teams have that one truely standout ST ace. Who's our's?

James Thrash.

[redwolf1218]

And by that time Novak has signed somewhere else, probably with Dallas.
that's what i'm afraid of. i'd rather keep him at this point than to let someone else have him. he could at least be stashed on the practice squad, but even then, someone might sign him and promote him to their active roster. Tupa is on injured reserve now, which seems like nothing more than an effort to keep him waiting in the wings in case we made a mistake with the younger guy. i'd do the same with Hall if he doesnt make a substantial improvement soon, and even then, i'd like to keep Novak somehow.

as for his kickoffs being short, it's been stated that was on purpose. 2 fair catches on kickoffs is unheard of. you dont get that with short kickoffs, you get it with hang time. he also did well with directional kicking, putting it over to the side without going out of bounds.

[swheeler]

As long as both are on the roster, Hall should be playing when he's healthy until he gets hurt again. He can do a lot more than Novak both on kickoffs and long field goal. there is absolutely no way we cut Novak though, because Hall will almost definitely get hurt again, so if we have to cut one it's Hall, but I wouldn't let him go until it's absolutely necessary.

[HanburgerBum]

Right now, it's not even an issue. It's Novak period, since Hall is not ready to kick and it is unclear when he will be ready. The issue becomes real only if Hall gets healthy.

I think it will be at least 3-4 games before Hall will be ready to kick. That's sufficient time to evaluate Novak. If Novak continues to kick FGs consistently from 45 yds in, he should be the kicker. I don't care if he doesn't have a big leg for kickoffs. The Skins can find somebody just to kickoff, if need be. They simply can not get rid of a consistent kicker. With the Skins' shaky offense, FGs are going to be huge. Have we already forgotten how the lack of a kicker ruined Norv Turner's last season here? That was definitely a playoff-caliber team except for place-kicking. The Skins can not afford to let another David Akers get away.

Hall is a good kicker, but not a great one. He is not one of the elites in the League. If there is doubt about Hall's long term health and Novak proves to be reliable, it's time to say good bye to John.

[BurgundyNGold]

Are you willing to risk a potential playoff spot on Hall's injured leg? Suppose we are in the stretch drive, playoff spot on the line and Hall injures his leg again. What do we do?

I'd take the sure thing, knowing exactly what I am likely to get from it, as opposed to the unknow with Hall.
If Hall is injured, then there really isn't a choice -- you have to go with someone else. However, if Hall is healthy and all things are even, I take Hall. Not even close.

[golongdude]

That's intelligent. He's proven to be injury-susceptible with recurring injuries to the same musclegroup.

I think not.

Novak.

[RedskinForLife]

Nick my be a young guy but he comes up golden when we need him. Only if he could improve on his kickoffs then he would be great.

[NCskinsfanatic]

If we are talking right now.....then Novak. I still want to see him kick it from 45+ yards before I'm sold on him but Hall isnt healthy and has missed almost as much time the last 2 years as Jacobs...lol. Despite the injuries Hall's the best kicker we've had in quite some time and is pretty reliable when 100%, but I will say he's making a lot of dough for a kicker that isnt kicking so :whoknows: .

[redwolf1218]

whats the advantage of experience? icewater in the veins. (Hall and Novak).

whats the advantage of youth? longevity and good health. (Novak).

disadvantage of age? injury leading to decline in performance. (Hall).

disadvantage of youth? cracks under pressure, not as effective. (neither).

as of right now, Novak covers all the bases in a battle of pros and cons, until he proves otherwise. Hall has already proven "otherwise" with 2 similar injuries.

fool me once, your fault. fool me twice, my fault. so far the coaching staff is not allowing it to happen.

once is a fluke.

twice is a trend or pattern, a track record that cant be ignored. so far the coaching staff is not ignoring it, and rightfully so.

and 3 times marks a history of events that should have been avoided.

[ryflan47]

I want to see Hall only if he is 100%.
Until then, I hope we get to see more of this
http://www.redskins.com/uploads/photos/perm/main/FMGMHGDOPFCB/redskins_8724721PG.jpg

[ihatedallas]

Easy, you go with the guy who is healthy.

I agree

[redwolf1218]

I want to see Hall only if he is 100%.
Until then, I hope we get to see more of this
http://www.redskins.com/uploads/photos/perm/main/FMGMHGDOPFCB/redskins_8724721PG.jpg
great picture. nothing would help a guy fit in quickly more than what that guy went through. having to kick the game winner twice, moving back 5 yards the 2nd time...that's clutch.

[Biggie]

great picture. nothing would help a guy fit in quickly more than what that guy went through. having to kick the game winner twice, moving back 5 yards the 2nd time...that's clutch.

Yes, it is.

Hall may be the better kicker than Novak when he's healthy, but he's not healthy and he never truly will be again. A kicker who keeps getting hurt has the problem for the rest of his career, and with a low-scoring offense like ours, we can't afford to be uncertain at kicker. Novak is young, he's already earned his stripes with the teams, he has confidence, and he's proven he can make kicks under pressure.

I say Novak.

[GoDannyBoy]

James Thrash.

He is our everything Ace! Need to see more or him at WR.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

Hall has been a great kicker for us.

[hockeygoalie29]

Hall has been a great kicker for us.

Yes he has, but he's not doing us any good on the sidelines. It's been almost a year since he has been healthy. I hate to say it but it's time for him to go, we have a great prospect in Novak who may be our kicker for the next decade. I don't think we can afford to let him go, have Hall come back for two weeks and then go down again. By then Novak is signed somewhere else and are left with Jose Cortez.

[redwolf1218]

we gave Hall the whole offseason to get healed up, and he did, and he was 100%, but he got hurt again in only a couple of weeks as soon as he started playing. it could happen again next time he comes back and i dont see how we cant take that chance in the middle of a season.

of course we all know as soon as he's cut the jinx will be lifted and he'll go somewhere else and have a probowl career for the next 10 years.

[BurgundyNGold]

we gave Hall the whole offseason to get healed up, and he did, and he was 100%, but he got hurt again in only a couple of weeks as soon as he started playing. it could happen again next time he comes back and i dont see how we cant take that chance in the middle of a season.

of course we all know as soon as he's cut the jinx will be lifted and he'll go somewhere else and have a probowl career for the next 10 years.
Exactly. Which is precisely why we need to exercise patience. This fly-off-the-handle attitude that some fans up here exhibit is what we did for the 12 years between Gibbs 1.0 and Gibbs 2.0 and what did that get us?

[BurgundyNGold]

Novak may turn out to be the next Akers. Great, but I'll tell you two things: First, it's too soon to make that proclaimation and second, Akers can get his kickoffs into the endzone -- Novak hasn't even gotten close. Until he gets that settled, I don't even want to entertain his impending greatness.

On the other had, Hall is easily a top 10 -- maybe even a top 5 -- kicker when he's healthy. I would be reticent to release a player of such a proven ability on a whim. It's not like we'd even get any cap relief out of it this year fro crying out loud.

[MWballer]

If Hall gets healthy we have to stick with him for the rest of the season hes a proven vet with a strong leg. He makes all the kicks in Madden lol. Until hes healthy we have to keep two kickers and even if he gets healthy id like to have Novak on the Practice Squad in prep for a comp nex season. Hes more valuable to our team than the 3 or 4 CB or WR we shuffle in and out the PS every week.

[redwolf1218]

Exactly. Which is precisely why we need to exercise patience. This fly-off-the-handle attitude that some fans up here exhibit is what we did for the 12 years between Gibbs 1.0 and Gibbs 2.0 and what did that get us?
well part of my point is, there is no amount of patience in the middle of a season that can replace the entire offseason. if he's ok in a few weeks, it's still not as much time as the offseason, and he still got hurt. i see your point about patience, but in my opinion at this point it's up to Novak. if he keeps hitting all his field goals, he's the guy. if he starts stinking up the joint, then delay the decision. one week or 2 does not make a field goal kicker, but if he remains good over a long haul, and connects on some long ones, and excells on kickoffs, then he's the guy (at about 1/4 of the price).

[BurgundyNGold]

well part of my point is, there is no amount of patience in the middle of a season that can replace the entire offseason. if he's ok in a few weeks, it's still not as much time as the offseason, and he still got hurt. i see your point about patience, but in my opinion at this point it's up to Novak. if he keeps hitting all his field goals, he's the guy. if he starts stinking up the joint, then delay the decision. one week or 2 does not make a field goal kicker, but if he remains good over a long haul, and connects on some long ones, and excells on kickoffs, then he's the guy (at about 1/4 of the price).
Even if Novak is a world beater, what good does it do to release Hall -- let alone in the middle of the season? His cap figure is already burned in for 2005, so we can't recover anything there. I say, if he gets healthy, you play him and put Novak on the PS. If he can't get healthy, Novak is kicking well and miraculously starts getting deep KOs, put Hall on the IR. In the offseason, you can trade him to a team with a need or you can cut him. I'd prefer to trade him because then we can dictate where it is that he goes.

[redwolf1218]

Even if Novak is a world beater, what good does it do to release Hall -- let alone in the middle of the season? His cap figure is already burned in for 2005, so we can't recover anything there. I say, if he gets healthy, you play him and put Novak on the PS. If he can't get healthy, Novak is kicking well and miraculously starts getting deep KOs, put Hall on the IR. In the offseason, you can trade him to a team with a need or you can cut him. I'd prefer to trade him because then we can dictate where it is that he goes.
i think Novak on PS is the best option, but definitely keep them both. the only problem i see is Novak might get signed to someone elses active roster if we put him on the PS after he's done well.

[BurgundyNGold]

i think Novak on PS is the best option, but definitely keep them both. the only problem i see is Novak might get signed to someone elses active roster if we put him on the PS after he's done well.
Life is full of risks, my friend. We could release Zak Keasy (again) and try to keep two Ks.

[Keino]

Life is full of risks, my friend. We could release Zak Keasy (again) and try to keep two Ks.

However we do it, we should keep both until Hall is completely healthy. At which point Novak should be released. He will catch on somewhere, and Gibbs kind of alluded to it in the Post-game press conference....

[camasterton]

However we do it, we should keep both until Hall is completely healthy. At which point Novak should be released. He will catch on somewhere, and Gibbs kind of alluded to it in the Post-game press conference....
Let it be well after Philadelphia has signed an inferior kicker or two!

[golongdude]

Novak should not be released at all this season, regardless of whether Hall comes back or not. Last year, week after week it appeared Hall would be ready and then, no...

Even if he comes back, he could go one game and blowout in the next. He's already done it once. Forget letting go of Novak - he's young and has great poise. He is the future, regardless. Not like Hall will get healthier as he ages, guys.

[ShaggySkins]

I voted Hall, he has more history in big games and is more proven. However if he suffers another injury then I definitely stick with Novak cuz the injuries are starting to get ridiculous with him.

[HanburgerBum]

Novak may turn out to be the next Akers. Great, but I'll tell you two things: First, it's too soon to make that proclaimation and second, Akers can get his kickoffs into the endzone -- Novak hasn't even gotten close. Until he gets that settled, I don't even want to entertain his impending greatness.

On the other had, Hall is easily a top 10 -- maybe even a top 5 -- kicker when he's healthy. I would be reticent to release a player of such a proven ability on a whim. It's not like we'd even get any cap relief out of it this year fro crying out loud.


Hall a top 5 kicker? I doubt that. He is definitely not in the elite class of people like Vinatiera, Akers, Vanderjagt. There are a number of good, young kickers in the NFL now (Rackers hasn't missed this year), such that it is not even clear that Hall is top 10. Having said that, I am not looking to get rid of him. Keep him on the roster for a month and see if he recovers and if Novak proves to be reliable.

Unlike some in this Forum, I am not that troubled by Novak's kickoffs. I just want a kicker that can consistently split the uprights from 45 yards and in.

Also, my gut feeling is that Hall will not make a complete recovery. His situation seems very similar to that of Bret Conway. The Skins simply can not again let a reliable kicker slip through their fingers, while their regular kicker vacilates between active and non-active status.

[golongdude]

The poll should really be about whether Hall reinjuries himself or not.

[MWballer]

The perfect scenario would be for us to get Novak on the Practice Squad, i doubt he'd clear waivers, and Hall comes back healthy. Then we have a kicking comp next year, but who knows maybe there having one in practice now.

[colkurtz]

When is Hall going to be ready to kick and can he stay healthy?

Then it's a straight competition - as it is for all other positions on this team.

[redwolf1218]

keep Novak until he proves to be unreliable. Hall has proven to be unreliable, not in his kicking, but in his health. the longer Novak goes without missing a kick and the more he proves his reliability, the less we need Hall. Novak might be just as good, only younger and healtier.