Santana Moss Vs. LC who got the better deal?

[X-Factor13]

So i must say that this year has been a total blast so far watching the games on TV and questioning everyone on the forum in excitement after seeing santana moss' name when what seems like every big play shows up. I know it's only been 6 games... and laverenues could still technically catch up to him (and hell could still technically freeze over), but i know that i'm not the only person who wanted to know exactly how smart we were for making this trade.


So far through 6 games Santana Moss has 38 receptions for 743 yards.

He averages 19.6 yards per catch and has 5 touchdowns.

He's got 12 catches over 20 yards.

And 5 that are over 40.

..... he also has one tackle.... lol


Now here is where you thank God for our blessing:

Through 7 games Laveranues Coles has 35 receptions for 385 yards.

He averages 11 yards per catch.

He has one touchdown.

And he's got 3 catches over 20 yards.

His longest catch of the season is a 31 yarder.

and DANGIT! HE HAS TWO TACKLES! Looks like we made a dumb deciosion guys. Why couldn't we see through all the whining and find that
solid tackler that the jets now have?!

Unfortunately i couldn't find the stats on drops, but i know for a fact the LC has dropped several this year already. One of my buds is a jets fan and gets them on sunday ticket. He says he drops like 2 or 3 a game. But don't take my word for it... I'm just the stat boy.

[smoak]

I said it before and I'll say it a million times. Moss is an ugrade for his attitude alone. If healthy and with the right attitude, Coles could have been just as good in this offense, but Coles has a chronically bad toe and worse attitude.

[Santheb]

Um do we even really need this thread? lol, it's obvious who got the better deal and we've discussed it many, many times.

[Skins4life]

Next thread................Vacation in Aruba or Central Iraq.

[CNYSkinFan]

In Coles defebnse he is on his fourth QB....HOWEVER I have lall along sadi Moss is an upgrade. Check out my VQ articles I do a Coles/Moss watch each week. Moss is leading Coles in EVERY statistical category.

[OCSkinzFan]

Has anybody heard from Coles on this issue. He wanted to go back to the Jets pretty bad, has he said lately how happy he is now that he's doing exactly the same thing for the Jets that he did for the Redskins? (ie shooort passes with no r.a.c.):inkston:

[whitskins]

I still think the Jets fleeced us. Stats and production on the field are way overrated in the NFL these days, you guys should know that. Good attitudes aren't all they're cracked up to be either.

And what about our 9 million dollar cap hit?? With that money we could have afforded to sign someone like Randy Moss, or our draft picks... Man we're in trouble now, how are Snyder, Gibbs, and our capologists ever gonna get us out of this one??? Trade Moss now and cut our losses!!!



(just kidding)

[OCSkinzFan]

And what about our 9 million dollar cap hit?? With that money we could have afforded to sign someone like Randy Moss, or our draft picks... Man we're in trouble now, how are Snyder, Gibbs, and our capologists ever gonna get us out of this one??? Trade Moss now and cut our losses!!!

hahahha! :lol3:

This looks like a quote from about a third of HR from last summer!

[nynate]

Well, in Coles defense he can't get seperation from whoever's covering him. If he were left alone every play and allowed to make the catch everytime, his stats would be even better than Moss'. Why are DB's so mean to him?

[DUCKIN_TACKLERS]

Maybe my math is off but if coles keeps up his pace. He will finish with like 80 receptions for like 875 yrds and 2 TDs. For some reason i dont think that will be good enough to make the PRO BOWL.:lol1: HA HA those arent even good number 2 numbers in some offenses. oh yeah Rod Gardner is stellar too. JOE GIBBS IS AN IDIOT.....NOT.

[Dept_of_Defense]

Moss. Hands down. :jetsuk:
________
Lovely Wendie (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[RedskinsDave]

It's a push. The Redskins pushed the Jets over the cliff.

[DR_RedskinsFan]

I dont know guys, those tackling stats have me undecided! 2 tackles?! wow! if he has champ bailey's luck, that will get him into the pro bowl as a CB!

[GloryHog]

Surely you jest.

[chad101]

Like last year Coles is again playing without a NFL caliber QB.

He has been a good soldier to date and really the only reason to watch the Jets offense this year.
A lot of flag waving going on after only 6 games by you guys. Seriously.

Coles is no longer a Skin. Enjoy Moss and let it go already. We haven't seen this version of Moss since 2003 . Last season he simply was too soft in big spots with alligator arms and drops.

Hope he continues to play out of this world for you guys. I'd like to see Gibbs use him more on punt returns as well but it is probably best to keep him healthy.

[akhhorus]

Like last year Coles is again playing without a NFL caliber QB.

He has been a good soldier to date and really the only reason to watch the Jets offense this year.
A lot of flag waving going on after only 6 games by you guys. Seriously.

Coles is no longer a Skin. Enjoy Moss and let it go already. We haven't seen this version of Moss since 2003 . Last season he simply was too soft in big spots with alligator arms and drops.

Hope he continues to play out of this world for you guys. I'd like to see Gibbs use him more on punt returns as well but it is probably best to keep him healthy.

Bitter, table for one. Its not just the stats, Moss has clearly taken a big step forward in development as a player, and isn't just in the right system at the right time, and you can blame the Qbs all you want, but Coles isn't the same player you guys had 3 years ago. He has lost speed and quickness because of his foot injury and doesn't have the size to overcome that. But feel free to blame the QBs. Coles wouldn't have the same stats Moss does if he was here with the Skins today. He is damaged goods.

[chad101]

Not being bitter Akh.

Coles was a better fit for what the Jets looked like coming into the season. Pennington coming off shoulder surgery and Moss were not a perfect match. Coles 10 yards in traffic was the surer bet in the Jets FO view than what we saw out of Moss. Pennington post surgery wasn't throwing 50 yarders to Moss. I think we ALL would agree that we shared the same opinion at the time of the trade. As I have said, Moss has been fantastic for six games.

[akhhorus]

Not being bitter Akh.

Coles was a better fit for what the Jets looked like coming into the season. Pennington coming off shoulder surgery and Moss were not a perfect match. Coles 10 yards in traffic was the surer bet in the Jets FO view than what we saw out of Moss. Pennington post surgery wasn't throwing 50 yarders to Moss. I think we ALL would agree that we shared the same opinion at the time of the trade. As I have said, Moss has been fantastic for six games.

I disagree, y'all wanted to go down the field, even with Pennington(when 100%, he can get it deep occasionally). The offense with Heimerdinger would have been a good fit for Moss, but with Coles/McCariens, you have wideouts fit for a WC. Coles-as we warned you when this trade happened-doesn't have the speed for the down the field attack. He didn't show it even when Ramsey-who can throw it down the field-was in. Moss is a terrible fit for a WC offense because he can't use his quickness as much, but in a deep attack, which the Skins run, he's perfect. And keep in mind one thing: the Skins run an offense that is little different than the one run last year, the difference being that the wideouts can get open. Coles and Gardner couldn't do that last year. I really don't know why Heimerdinger decided to dump Moss, unless it was some personal problem he had with him.

[PA Skins Girl]

Not being bitter Akh.

Coles was a better fit for what the Jets looked like coming into the season. Pennington coming off shoulder surgery and Moss were not a perfect match. Coles 10 yards in traffic was the surer bet in the Jets FO view than what we saw out of Moss. Pennington post surgery wasn't throwing 50 yarders to Moss. I think we ALL would agree that we shared the same opinion at the time of the trade. As I have said, Moss has been fantastic for six games.
Just because Moss can get open for the long gains doesnt mean he cant get open for the 10 yarders. Anyway, I'm glad you guys are happy with Coles, 'cause we are very happy with Moss. He is the main reason we've gone from a #31 offense to a #2 offense. When you have a deep threat, everything else gets easier.

[Rich77]

So i must say that this year has been a total blast so far watching the games on TV and questioning everyone on the forum in excitement after seeing santana moss' name when what seems like every big play shows up. I know it's only been 6 games... and laverenues could still technically catch up to him (and hell could still technically freeze over), but i know that i'm not the only person who wanted to know exactly how smart we were for making this trade.


So far through 6 games Santana Moss has 38 receptions for 743 yards.

He averages 19.6 yards per catch and has 5 touchdowns.

He's got 12 catches over 20 yards.

And 5 that are over 40.

..... he also has one tackle.... lol


Now here is where you thank God for our blessing:

Through 7 games Laveranues Coles has 35 receptions for 385 yards.

He averages 11 yards per catch.

He has one touchdown.

And he's got 3 catches over 20 yards.

His longest catch of the season is a 31 yarder.

and DANGIT! HE HAS TWO TACKLES! Looks like we made a dumb deciosion guys. Why couldn't we see through all the whining and find that
solid tackler that the jets now have?!

Unfortunately i couldn't find the stats on drops, but i know for a fact the LC has dropped several this year already. One of my buds is a jets fan and gets them on sunday ticket. He says he drops like 2 or 3 a game. But don't take my word for it... I'm just the stat boy.


I agree it has been a blast watching the Redskins lately. O and D. Really great fun.
I don't think there is any question who got the best deal, at least the way this year is going.
I would not trade Rocket Man for 4 Coles's.
Rocket Man will get better and Coles may hurt more as the season goes on. The Jets are not doing well which makes it worse. I would like to see Moss and Bru in the pro-bowl with Lavar, Washington, Taylor, and Springs from our

[Death_Venom]

I am VERY THANKFUL for this trade-I was somewhat undecided as to how i felt about this trade in the being. Now looking back I am very happy with Santana Moss and he has CLEARLY taken his game to the next level and I hope he can continue to improve.

[rskinsfan10]

Coles is no longer a Skin. Enjoy Moss and let it go already.Please. Run back and tell all of your Jet buddies on all of your team's message boards to let it go already. Most of you still hold huge grudges from the Thomas/Morton/Hall/Coles signings, and don't have any qualms with stating as much publically. When you all "let it go", we will try to do the same.

[IMALILTEAPOT]

one thing that me and my friend noticed about coles is that he has "decieving" speed, meaning that he looks faster than what he actually is. I mean, when his toe was healthy, he truly was one of the fastest recievers in the league, but nowadays it just seems like he runs so hard, and his arms are flying and he looks like hes going full blast, when really hes not getting any seperation at all. its really funny when u look at it

[whitskins]

If the New York Jets had just aquired a WR who is leading the league in yards by a landslide despite playing in one less game than half the NFL, has 5 TDs in six games and is not only on pace to shatter the all-time team receiving record but the NFL record as well... I seriously doubt they would just "let it go".

[rskinsfan10]

one thing that me and my friend noticed about coles is that he has "decieving" speed, meaning that he looks faster than what he actually is. I mean, when his toe was healthy, he truly was one of the fastest recievers in the league, but nowadays it just seems like he runs so hard, and his arms are flying and he looks like hes going full blast, when really hes not getting any seperation at all. its really funny when u look at itI agree with this totally. It has alot to do with my contention last year when folks were all over Brunell for his play, and I kept saying that the WRs weren't getting any seperation and that the entire offense was to blame. Even when Brunell was replaced with Ramsey last year, you still didn't see Coles haul in the long passes like Moss has done so far because Coles was simply unable to get behind CBs as easily as Moss can.

[smoak]

Yeah, I also saw the lack of seperation on anything that wasn't a little 5 yard curl or short out. Coles ouldn't get behind a DB to save his life last season. Add to that the pathetic O-line play and the fact we faced 8+ men in the box at times, and it is no wonder we struggled.

[nynate]

Not being bitter Akh.

Coles was a better fit for what the Jets looked like coming into the season. Pennington coming off shoulder surgery and Moss were not a perfect match. Coles 10 yards in traffic was the surer bet in the Jets FO view than what we saw out of Moss. Pennington post surgery wasn't throwing 50 yarders to Moss. I think we ALL would agree that we shared the same opinion at the time of the trade. As I have said, Moss has been fantastic for six games.


Look, a healthy coles would be a good fit for any offense. The thing is, is that he's not healthy,and won't get surgery because he's afraid it might do more damage, or worse, end his career. At the time of the trade I was glad we got something for him (I thought Moss would be good, but not this good), but was more angry at coles for the things he did in the off season, because us fans were always huge supporters of his even though he isn't the burner that we thought we were gettin, but he was a warrior. But to bad mouth Gibbs, and the team, and demand to be let go, keeping his bonus which put us in a huge hole, and the chad pennington love fest that occured in the media left a bad taste in our mouths. So you can see why having the league leading reciever, a deep threat, and a reciever that is glad to be here, and keeps making huge plays would make us so happy. Meanwhile coles, the malcontent, bad mouth complainer is struggling. The one who wanted out at any cost. The one who turned his back on us. The fan favorite that left us, and kept us from re-signing Peirce or Smoot. Yeah, we're glad he sucks. I hope he never has a good season again, and retires shamed, and looks back on all of this and wonders what would have happend if only he had trusted Gibbs, or given it one more year.

Meanwhile we have Moss who is playing his heart out, is a team leader, who loves the oppertunity, and believes in Gibbs and the Redskins.

How would you feel if coles did the same thing to you? Oh yeah, he pretty much did, and you guys HATED him for it. Called him a sell out, felt let down. Well the difference is the coles who left you isn't the same reciever you got back.

I'll get over it when coles admits he made a huge mistake, and apologizes to us, the fans for the way he left, until then, I'm going to laugh about every catch Moss has over coles. And while the jets are headed for a long, long season (or 3), the Skins are headed in the right direction, and Moss is a HUGE part of why....

[HanburgerBum]

Like last year Coles is again playing without a NFL caliber QB.

He has been a good soldier to date and really the only reason to watch the Jets offense this year.
A lot of flag waving going on after only 6 games by you guys. Seriously.

Coles is no longer a Skin. Enjoy Moss and let it go already. We haven't seen this version of Moss since 2003 . Last season he simply was too soft in big spots with alligator arms and drops.

Hope he continues to play out of this world for you guys. I'd like to see Gibbs use him more on punt returns as well but it is probably best to keep him healthy.


Chad, please thank the Jets a trillion on behalf of the Redskins fans for giving the Skins a second chance at Santana Moss. That idiot Marty Schottenheimer insisted on drafting Rod Gardner over the objections of Dan Snyder, who wanted Santana. And, you guys got a second chance at whinny "the Toe" Coles. Hope you are happy.

As others have pointed out, even before the issue of his injured toe came up, Coles was not getting good separation on the deep throws. And, of the few times he did catch a ball downfield, he was always overtaken by DBs. What the Redskins got in Coles was a very expensive possession receiver. Sure, the Jets have QB problems. But, the truth is that the Jets got fleeced in this trade. Talking about getting fleeced, what will you give the Skins for Patrick Ramsey?

[whitskins]

Meanwhile we have Moss who is playing his heart out, is a team leader, who loves the oppertunity, and believes in Gibbs and the Redskins.

How would you feel if coles did the same thing to you? Oh yeah, he pretty much did, and you guys HATED him for it. Called him a sell out, felt let down. Well the difference is the coles who left you isn't the same reciever you got back.

I'll get over it when coles admits he made a huge mistake, and apologizes to us, the fans for the way he left, until then, I'm going to laugh about every catch Moss has over coles. And while the jets are headed for a long, long season (or 3), the Skins are headed in the right direction, and Moss is a HUGE part of why....

The thing about Coles that pissed me off more than anything is when he was asked what advice he gave Santana Moss about coming here and he said "hey, I went there when it was time for me to get paid, now it's your turn".

Absolutely disgusting comment and completely indicative of what kind of player he is. I'm loving watching him put together another sorry season. So what if he has the complaint about no QB, watching him squirm is fine with me whether its with or without a good QB. This is just karma proving itself once again.

And I love a lot of Jets fans for this. Coles leaves and they put up an absolutely ridiculous "Laveraneus Dart Board" on their fan site, where you can throw darts at Coles' face and make blood spurt out. Now they're all over the guy again because he quit on his other team and came crawling back, meanwhile they'll throw dirt on Santana (their 2003 MVP) just to make everything all right again. The ones who are still trying to talk themselves into the notion that Moss sucks are the most amusing of all.

[FanFromArizona]

NFL Pre-game, Redskin Revival, This about sums it up:

"After the redskins trade of Laverneus Coles to the Jets for Santana Moss...."

I will leave my thoughts at that phrase.

[chad101]

Chad, please thank the Jets a trillion on behalf of the Redskins fans for giving the Skins a second chance at Santana Moss. That idiot Marty Schottenheimer insisted on drafting Rod Gardner over the objections of Dan Snyder, who wanted Santana. And, you guys got a second chance at whinny "the Toe" Coles. Hope you are happy.

As others have pointed out, even before the issue of his injured toe came up, Coles was not getting good separation on the deep throws. And, of the few times he did catch a ball downfield, he was always overtaken by DBs. What the Redskins got in Coles was a very expensive possession receiver. Sure, the Jets have QB problems. But, the truth is that the Jets got fleeced in this trade. Talking about getting fleeced, what will you give the Skins for Patrick Ramsey?

Ramsey =4th rd pick. I think DE Bryan Thomas and a 6th rounder for Ramsey isn't bad for both teams. I have a feeling we end up doing Abraham for one of the SD QB's.

It's a shame Pennington wasn't allowed to fully recover and our GM and HC should be fired for that.

I totally agree Skins win this deal so far. Lotta season left.

Question for you. What were your thoughts at the time of the deal?