To avoid the shutout or NOT to avoid the shutout???

[wewantdallas]

Is it just me? Am I the only one who is AMAZED that Gibbs not only didn't go for the FG when they had the chance to avoid the shutout, but also didn't try to call timeouts at the end to try to get some points with one more drive?

To me, a shutout is TEN TIMES more humiliating than a score like, say, 52-17.

Did you hear the Giants fans? They were chanting defense at the end, hoping to preserve the shutout. The ONE CHANCE we had to salvage ANY pride on the day was to score some points and at least SLIGHTLY disappoint those fans. And we didn't even try.

I remember being dumbfounded in 2003 when Spurrier lost 27-0 to Dallas and also didn't even try to score as the game was coming to an end. I chalked that up to Spurrier just being clueless Spurrier. I never thought I'd see that from Gibbs.

What am I missing here? Do coaches just not see a difference between 36-0 and 36-3? To me, there IS a difference. The absolute lack of pride out there today just has me about as down as I've been about a loss since, well, since that 27-0 loss in 2003.

[rskinsfan10]

I would have went for the TD as he did, if for no other reason then to give the offense some type of spark.

His decision doesn't bother me in the slightest.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

I would have went for the TD as he did, if for no other reason then to give the offense some type of spark.

His decision doesn't bother me in the slightest.
i agree. his decision didnt bother me, the fact that we didnt score is what bothers me the most.

[fent]

I would have went for the TD as he did.

His decision doesn't bother me in the slightest.

same here. it's more of a statement to his team that he's not going to take the easy route. they're going to fight for everything on this team, from roster spots and the starting nods to the points they put on the board.

[Redskinfan28]

If you kick a FG just to avoid the shutout, then you have no respect for yourself. At that point, JG made the right call.

[WinnpegSkinsFan]

Is it just me? Am I the only one who is AMAZED that Gibbs not only didn't go for the FG when they had the chance to avoid the shutout, but also didn't try to call timeouts at the end to try to get some points with one more drive?

To me, a shutout is TEN TIMES more humiliating than a score like, say, 52-17.

Did you hear the Giants fans? They were chanting defense at the end, hoping to preserve the shutout. The ONE CHANCE we had to salvage ANY pride on the day was to score some points and at least SLIGHTLY disappoint those fans. And we didn't even try.

I remember being dumbfounded in 2003 when Spurrier lost 27-0 to Dallas and also didn't even try to score as the game was coming to an end. I chalked that up to Spurrier just being clueless Spurrier. I never thought I'd see that from Gibbs.

What am I missing here? Do coaches just not see a difference between 36-0 and 36-3? To me, there IS a difference. The absolute lack of pride out there today just has me about as down as I've been about a loss since, well, since that 27-0 loss in 2003.

To me a field goal is meaningless, token way of breaking a shutout. Moose Johnston was agreeing with Gibbs call of gambling on 4th goal and I was too. A field goal would bring me no satisfaction. A TD would have and at least they tried. Gotta go withe Gibbs here. I doubt he cares if he maintains a non-shutout streak or not. The attempt at a TD was for benefit in the future, a vote of confidence (if one can muster confidence from today's crappy effort).

[wewantdallas]

same here. it's more of a statement to his team that he's not going to take the easy route. they're going to fight for everything on this team, from roster spots and the starting nods to the points they put on the board.

I just don't agree. If there was still a CHANCE for the Skins to pull out a miracle win, then sure, go for the touchdown.

But the game was WELL OVER at this point, and the team had AT LEAST EARNED the opportunity for 3 points and a chance to salvage some pride. A touchdown vs. a FG would make little difference, but a FG vs. a goose egg, at least to me, DOES make some difference. Minimal, yes, but SOMETHING.

Talking about a spark? How about getting some points on the board to get a spark, ANY points? That's what Gibbs would normally do at any other point in the game, and I would love to hear his explanation as to why he didn't do it here.

[wewantdallas]

If you kick a FG just to avoid the shutout, then you have no respect for yourself. At that point, JG made the right call.

Why? That makes absolutely no sense to me. It's not like the Giants fumbled the ball on the five and the Skins ran into the line three times and then had the chance to kick a field goal. THEN I would agree that shows no respect for themselves.

BUt they actually put together their ONLY drive of the game getting down that far, and they earned the right to get some points out of it.

To me, having no respect for yourselves was leaving timeouts on the board, kneeling at the end of the game and not even trying to get another shot at points.

[frankez99]

I wanted the field goal..but I'm not stressed about it. The 4th down play was there, BUT ONCE AGAIN ROBERT ROYAL DROPPED THE BALL. Sorry...I'm just angry.

[whitskins]

How exactly would scoring a garbage time field goal provide us with much pride over going for a TD? At least trying for the TD showed some guts, kicking the field goal is clearly just a cop out to avoid the shutout.

We got dominated either way, we might as well go down swinging rather than put up a measly meaningless field goal just so we can say we weren't shut out.

[wewantdallas]

We got dominated either way, we might as well go down swinging rather than put up a measly meaningless field goal just so we can say we weren't shut out.

Okay, point taken, although I don't agree, in that I think we earned the right to kick that field goal and at that point NEEDED to get something on the board. I don't think it would've been a cop out at all.

But you talk about "going down swinging," and I agree with that mentality, too. But then HOW do you defend the END of the game, kneeling on the ball, not using any timeouts, etc.?

And make no mistake, I recognize this is all just trivial stuff overall, but I feel like you have to fight to the end every game, too, and I just despise seeing a team totally say "No, Mas" like we did at the end of this game.

So, in my opinion, anyone who defends going for the TD over the FG as being a sign from Gibbs that the team will continue fighting until the end has to be EQUALLY CRITICAL of the decision to just let time run out at the end and actually do a kneel down to SEAL A LOSS. When was the last time you saw a kneel down to seal a loss?? I don't know if I ever have.

[PennSkinsFan]

I would have went for the TD as he did, if for no other reason then to give the offense some type of spark.

His decision doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Me too. Getting spanked, is getting spnaked, whethe rit is 36-0 or 36-0, either way the performance was awful and they all deserve a huge thumbs down and a brutal week of practice.

[Redskinfan28]

Why? That makes absolutely no sense to me. It's not like the Giants fumbled the ball on the five and the Skins ran into the line three times and then had the chance to kick a field goal. THEN I would agree that shows no respect for themselves.

BUt they actually put together their ONLY drive of the game getting down that far, and they earned the right to get some points out of it.

To me, having no respect for yourselves was leaving timeouts on the board, kneeling at the end of the game and not even trying to get another shot at points.

I was talking about the FG. I dodn't see what happened at the end of the game.

[whitskins]

Okay, point taken, although I don't agree, in that I think we earned the right to kick that field goal and at that point NEEDED to get something on the board. I don't think it would've been a cop out at all.

But you talk about "going down swinging," and I agree with that mentality, too. But then HOW do you defend the END of the game, kneeling on the ball, not using any timeouts, etc.?

And make no mistake, I recognize this is all just trivial stuff overall, but I feel like you have to fight to the end every game, too, and I just despise seeing a team totally say "No, Mas" like we did at the end of this game.

So, in my opinion, anyone who defends going for the TD over the FG as being a sign from Gibbs that the team will continue fighting until the end has to be EQUALLY CRITICAL of the decision to just let time run out at the end and actually do a kneel down to SEAL A LOSS. When was the last time you saw a kneel down to seal a loss?? I don't know if I ever have.

The difference is six minutes left vs. 22 seconds. In a situation where it is literally 100% possible to win, it is considered classless to go for a meaningless score or run a play which could injure one of your players or your opponent's.

I'm remembering Week One, Indy vs. Baltimore, when the game was over with less than a minute left and Billick used his timeouts to try to get another meaningless TD. People were blasting him for it saying he had no class. Billick probably didn't care, but don't forget that the Skins will see the Giants again, no reason to give their coach or players extra incentive to fight dirty against us.

Also with 22 seconds and no chance to win, remember that our O-line was getting decimated, in a clear Hail Mary situation Gibbs probably thought Ramsey stood a good chance of getting his head blown off.

I also don't really think Gibbs is as outraged by the fact of being shutout as we are. I think a shut out means a lot less to him than simply the fact that we were owned today, so putting up a field goal or Hail Mary TD for pride probably does nothing for him. Gibbs doesn't care if we scored 0 points or 7 or 10, either way we got absolutely dominated up and down the field on both sides of the ball. I think the only way he would coach a game is to win, never to simply avoid putting up a goose egg. But that's just my opinion.

[Skinz4lyfe]

Me too. Getting spanked, is getting spnaked, whethe rit is 36-0 or 36-0, either way the performance was awful and they all deserve a huge thumbs down and a brutal week of practice.

I totally agree. I know one thing is for sure. I wouldn't want to be a Redskin because this week is gonna be one tough week of practice. If anybody knows Gibbs they know that he doesn't tolerate losing, especially like this.

[rskinsfan10]

So, in my opinion, anyone who defends going for the TD over the FG as being a sign from Gibbs that the team will continue fighting until the end has to be EQUALLY CRITICAL of the decision to just let time run out at the end and actually do a kneel down to SEAL A LOSS. When was the last time you saw a kneel down to seal a loss?? I don't know if I ever have.I wholeheartedly disagree. The only way these two plays are comparable IMO is if we had taken a knee at the time we went for the TD with all that time remaining. You are also making the assumption that that FG was guaranteed, which nothing is in this league. The right play was called, the pass was put where it should have been, but Royal didn't do his part.

There is no point is going for a Hail Mary and risking injury at that point of the game for the sake of not being shut out. And for the record, I have seen teams that were way behind kneel down before to end the game.

[GibbsFan]

who gives a rat's rearend? we got smacked, going for the TD was OK by me.

[skinem]

Players would have really freaked out if he had sent the field goal team in

[wewantdallas]

Also with 22 seconds and no chance to win, remember that our O-line was getting decimated, in a clear Hail Mary situation Gibbs probably thought Ramsey stood a good chance of getting his head blown off.

With only 22 seconds left, yes, at that point just sit on the ball or call a running play. But they could've used timeouts well before that when the Giants had the ball and had about 1:40 left.

But, in the end, who really cares I guess, and you're right about the injury thing, and I didn't even think about that. I guess there is some sort of code of conduct among players and coaches in those instances that I didn't even think of.

Anyway, I guess the answer to my initial question that started this post is, "YES, it is just you."

[rskinsfan10]

With only 22 seconds left, yes, at that point just sit on the ball or call a running play. But they could've used timeouts well before that when the Giants had the ball and had about 1:40 left.If I recall correctly, we only had 1 TO at that point. We lost one on the challenge, and Ramsey called one earlier.

[inevitable]

I would say every player on this team deserves to be run into the ground this week at practice, particularly the offensive line. But unfortunately everyone is hurt.

Any idea as to the seriousness of our injuries?

[smoak]

i wanted to go for the TD. tyhe players deserved to be shut out. they played like crap and that was maybe the worsty loss under gibss ever... certainly since he has been back. i never fekt this bad last season b/c we fought hard and lost a lot of close games. frankly, there about 53 players that absolutelty sucked today.

[BigPlayJay]

I was suprised at the choice to go for the TD. I think it was the right thing to do though. A FG means nothing anyways, other than some sort of mental crutch to say "At least we weren't shut out". I would rather leave the team with the impression that they were a complete zero. Maybe that will light a fire!

By the way. I hope the defense doesn't wlak away thinking even in the back of their minds that the offense blew this one. The defense was only a hair better. This was the worst performance by the Redskins since the last game of Spurrier's era.

[sknz2856]

I would have went for the TD as he did, if for no other reason then to give the offense some type of spark.

His decision doesn't bother me in the slightest.


I agree....and if we could catch today we would have scored. Nice play choice and Ramsey delivered a very catchable ball. If nothing else it gave us an opportunity to practice our Red Zone scoring which prior to last week has been very suspect.

[whistleandthumb]

Sorry, Tom, but we had to go for the TD there. Kicking a FG would've just added to the pathetic image of our team, and everyone watching would've known we did it just to avoid the shutout. We had to be aggressive, and try to get SOMETHING going.

And, to be honest, we HAD the touchdown, only Robert Royal-"ly F'd Up The Game For Us" dropped a gift in his hands. Blame our shutout on him, if you want, but Gibbs did the right thing.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Is it just me? Am I the only one who is AMAZED that Gibbs not only didn't go for the FG when they had the chance to avoid the shutout, but also didn't try to call timeouts at the end to try to get some points with one more drive?

To me, a shutout is TEN TIMES more humiliating than a score like, say, 52-17.

Did you hear the Giants fans? They were chanting defense at the end, hoping to preserve the shutout. The ONE CHANCE we had to salvage ANY pride on the day was to score some points and at least SLIGHTLY disappoint those fans. And we didn't even try.

I remember being dumbfounded in 2003 when Spurrier lost 27-0 to Dallas and also didn't even try to score as the game was coming to an end. I chalked that up to Spurrier just being clueless Spurrier. I never thought I'd see that from Gibbs.

What am I missing here? Do coaches just not see a difference between 36-0 and 36-3? To me, there IS a difference. The absolute lack of pride out there today just has me about as down as I've been about a loss since, well, since that 27-0 loss in 2003.


To go for three at that point is to conceed defeat. You don't overcome a 35 point spread with field goals. Not that we had a chance at that point anyway but I think you can't give into just trying to get rid of that bagel on the score board, you gotta go for the glory, and if that fails, the captian goes down with his ship on his own terms.

[CowboyKilla]

Fieldgoal would have done nothing. Nothing.
It all still goes down as a big fat L.

[Axegrinder]

Kick the fieldgoal.
The hardest points to get in any sport are the first points.

Then again,the way our special teams have played,it may have been blocked.
I still would have tried the FG.

[cmdlost29]

I would have went for the TD as he did, if for no other reason then to give the offense some type of spark.

His decision doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Gibbs had never been shutout in the Regular season until today. I'm sure he knew that when he made this decision. If he can live with that streak ending so can I!

[War Hogg]

Going for a TD on 4th down instead of kicking a fieldgoal makes sense to me but I didnt agree with kneeling the ball to close out the game....Gibbs was probably just disgusted and ready to get outta there..

[skinsdude]

Kick the fieldgoal.
The hardest points to get in any sport are the first points.

Then again,the way our special teams have played,it may have been blocked.
I still would have tried the FG.

I agree. It may have done the players some good to see some points on the board. Could have provided a spark.

[PennSkinsFan]

Gibbs had never been shutout in the Regular season until today. I'm sure he knew that when he made this decision. If he can live with that streak ending so can I!

Streaks get you nothing unless they are wins. Who cares if you have the longest non-shutout streak if you continue to watch other teams in the playoffs. Big deal.

[AGibbsGirl]

I made opinion known in the game thread...who remembers a shut out? I said that I bet most had to go to the archives to find the stat on when the last time we were shut out.

I thought, given our history of crazy comebacks...Gibbs was correct in going for it...not that we would win but maybe we could have got a TD or two toward the end...anyway, it didn't work out that way but I still agree with the decision!

[skins111111]

a loss is a loss and Gibbs personal records arn't as important to him as a W
sure he coulda kicked a FG and saved his record of never allowing a shutout in a regular season game.....but.....get a TD and get some mometem and who knows maybe a fantastic comeback......very doubtfull but still possible at the time..........................point being----personal records take a hind seat and he personally will lead by example

[whistleandthumb]

I made opinion known in the game thread...who remembers a shut out? I said that I bet most had to go to the archives to find the stat on when the last time we were shut out.

I thought, given our history of crazy comebacks...Gibbs was correct in going for it...not that we would win but maybe we could have got a TD or two toward the end...anyway, it didn't work out that way but I still agree with the decision!
Actually we got shutout against the Girls in Spurrier's last year. And it happened at FedEx. Pathetic.

[AGibbsGirl]

Actually we got shutout against the Girls in Spurrier's last year. And it happened at FedEx. Pathetic.

But my point was that most people don't remember the scores, only the win or loss...now, did you remember that game or did you just look the stat up? If you remembered it...then you are the man!

[Cruising270]

But my point was that most people don't remember the scores, only the win or loss...now, did you remember that game or did you just look the stat up? If you remembered it...then you are the man!

Your right, even Playoff game shut outs are seldom remembered by people. I don't see a shut out being that big of a deal to our momentum versus us getting 3 points.

[Bluuz]

36-0, 36-3, big difference. Gibbs isn't going to kick a meaningless field goal to protect his legacy. Not his style. Plus, however unlikely victory maybe, it sends a message to the players that you quit on them.

[Biggie]

Considering Gibbs, I'm not sure that he knew there was a streak that could have been saved. The guy cares about the game, not about the numbers.

[Redskin006]

I think that Gibbs would rather have the shutout because when the team looks back at the game, it looks and feels way worse when they are shutout then when they have some points on the board. It seems crazy, but makes sense. Gibbs understood that we definitely had lost that game. So, he went for the TD. If they couldn't get the TD, no big deal. He knows that being shutout may be good for the team, a huge motivation. No team wants to be shutout, especially 36 - 0, so being shutout by that much should make the team wanna win that much more and should help keep the team motivated for the rest of the season.

[whistleandthumb]

But my point was that most people don't remember the scores, only the win or loss...now, did you remember that game or did you just look the stat up? If you remembered it...then you are the man!
For me, that was the most embarrassed I'd ever felt to be a Skins fan. It will never be forgotten. Grrrrrrr...

(though, I'd like to think that this year is the start of the revenge for that game)

[becky]

I agree with what the general consensus is.. a field goal at that point is meaningless and 100 times out of 100 Joe goes for the TD. The man does not give up and I wouldn't have it any other way.

Last night I went to a friend's after work to watch the Ravens-Steelers game (he is a Ravens fan) and he said, "I didn't see the (Skins) game and I'm sure you don't want to talk about it, but I heard them talking about how Gibbs went for a TD instead of kicking a field goal late in the game and it made me wish we could trade coaches. Joe Gibbs is the MAN." How can anyone not agree! And btw for this guy to wish Brian Billick out of Baltimore is basically heresy and I couldn't believe he said that because he and my boyfriend LOVE him.

[Discalced]

For me, that was the most embarrassed I'd ever felt to be a Skins fan. It will never be forgotten. Grrrrrrr...

(though, I'd like to think that this year is the start of the revenge for that game)

It was the single most difficult game I've ever watched. It didn't help to have antagonistic family members about.

[chrisbcbu]

i would have went for the TD as well. As for the end of the game i probably would have kneeled the ball as well. We got our butt kicked and deserved the shutout for the way we played. The only thing that could have been worse would have been more injuries. I would kneeled the ball and gotten outta dodge to avoid more injuries.

[vabeach_skinsfan]

I would have went for the TD too, forget about the big doughnut on the score board. We deserved to get spanked like that, for the pathetic performance we displayed. I was at Hometown Heroes in Va Beach, about 37 skins fan and 1 Giants fan. Don't you know how close that fan came to his demise?????

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