Conservativeness

[FanFromArizona]

One of the issues I have with the playcalling lately is that we seem to be claiming victory too early with our conservative play-calling at the end of games. Yes, we have been winning, and yes, conservative prevents turnovers, but conservative also leads to many 3 and outs and enough time for the other team to try a last minute comeback.

I would like to see a different approach when we are trying to run the clock down: At least 1 pass attempt per series to keep the chains [and time] moving. TOO conservative playcalling leads to many 3 and outs and games that leave me shouting at the tube and praying. I think we have been giving the other teams too much time to make a comeback, especially when the game is 1 series away from being tied or lost. If you are going to run exclusively I would like us to be winning by at least 2 possessions worth.

[Axegrinder]

I'm sick of the WR screen.

[CarMike]

FanFromArizona, how old are you? [Not being mean, just wondering...:)]

Gibbs has always been conservative down the stretch. I actually liked his play calling down the stretch. If we try to throw the ball and its incomplete, it gives the Eagles a lot of time left plus it saves them a TO.

Gibbs has been known to run the ball down the opponents throats in the 4th quarter if we have a lead. Nothing new really.

Once again, i'm trying to a ahole by asking your age. ;)

[JoeDaSchmoe]

I'm not sick of it when we throw it to Santana.

[whitskins]

I didn't notice us being particularly conservative until we had 2nd and 17 and clearly conceded the drive to kill clock with two runs and then punt, but that is what you have to do in that situation. Other than that I didn't notice us change our gameplan at all.

[danny's stogie]

I didn't notice us being particularly conservative until we had 2nd and 17 and clearly conceded the drive to kill clock with two runs and then punt, but that is what you have to do in that situation. Other than that I didn't notice us change our gameplan at all.

This was what I was just about to say...

In a situation where it's 2nd and really long the chances of getting a first down are extremely reduced and so you might as well just run a few plays and eat up clock. Other than when they were forced into this situation their playcalling towards the end of the game included quite a few passes and wasn't as conservative.

[BigCountry]

Gibbs couldn't have expected the defense to start hacking their guts out after the played great all day so in a game like that you gotta go with the clock. The defense were the ones that made this a nailbitter. Gibbs did everything right in the end.

[Fathead]

Conservative works fine when you don't hold when Portis gets a first down and create a 2nd and 17.

[whitskins]

Conservative works fine when you don't hold when Portis gets a first down and create a 2nd and 17.

Yeah but that was a pancake block, not a hold. Refs tried to screw us there in the end but we weren't having it.

[redskin_rich]

I'm not sick of it when we throw it to Santana.
Yep, I was actually calling for screen plays to Santana during the game, he always seems to get at least 7 yards out of it.

[BIGSEF3]

Conservative works when your defense is top-notch. Our defense has been good lately, but they havent been consistent enough for our offense to be as conservative as it has been. I trust Brunell throwing the ball and taking some calculated chances. He's a veteran and i trust him not to do something stupid last minute.

That being said, if you look at our record, we're 5-3 and when we've had a lead, even a small one, our defense has been pretty darn good about not giving that lead up. I trust Gibbs to make the right choices.

[CarMike]

I'm not sick of it when we throw it to Santana.
I'm waiting for Brunell and Moss to try that play only to fake it then send Moss deep. Defenses are already waiting on that play. We should take advantage of it while its there.

[Fathead]

Yeah but that was a pancake block, not a hold. Refs tried to screw us there in the end but we weren't having it.



While I agree, it got called. :(

[FanFromArizona]

FanFromArizona, how old are you? [Not being mean, just wondering...:)]

Gibbs has always been conservative down the stretch. I actually liked his play calling down the stretch. If we try to throw the ball and its incomplete, it gives the Eagles a lot of time left plus it saves them a TO.

Gibbs has been known to run the ball down the opponents throats in the 4th quarter if we have a lead. Nothing new really.

Once again, i'm trying to a ahole by asking your age. ;)

Let's just say that I have been a fan since the 80s, I know that Gibbs has always been conservative, the part I am referencing is when we are winning with like 4-5 minutes left in the game, I don't care about the calls themselves but we need to keep the chains moving, the last drive our offense had tonight was 3 straight running plays,

I know, if we throw the ball and we miss that stops the clock, but a little mix is what I am trying to say, teams are expecting a run each time, maybe a little fake, a reverse, SOMETHING other than 3 straight runs at the end and turn it over to the defense.

Yes, the calls for tonight were the correct ones, what I am talking about is our propensity to ALWAYS run and slow down the clock, it seems that when we get into the slow the game down, we lose the explosiveness of the pass threats.....can't I maybe get a pass call 10% of the time at the end?

[CarMike]

thats cool FFA. Hope you didn't take it personally. We have a lot of "yougsters" here who don't remember Gibbs of the '80s.

BTW, love your avatar. Sara Evans is HOT! ;)

[FanFromArizona]

thats cool FFA. Hope you didn't take it personally. We have a lot of "yougsters" here who don't remember Gibbs of the '80s.

BTW, love your avatar. Sara Evans is HOT! ;)

I understand the definition of being naive, believe me I thought about posting this beforehand. I have walked with the team through thick and thin[started as a kid in NY, then moved to South Carolina, and now in Arizona], I know what JG has done in the past, I just wished he would pull that "Dan Marino trick play on the Jets" [the fake downing] out of his trick book every so often.

I agree with running the clock down, but I also think that every so often take a try down field with a deep pass would not hurt the cram it down the throat Joe is infamous for.

[FanFromArizona]

thats cool FFA. Hope you didn't take it personally. We have a lot of "yougsters" here who don't remember Gibbs of the '80s.

BTW, love your avatar. Sara Evans is HOT! ;)

she's got my vote, she definitely has the purest voice I have ever heard.

[CowboyKilla]

No problems with the play calling tonight from me, except Run Clinton more outside and in passing game. That seven minute drive the oline took over.

[Patrick]

I'm sick of the WR screen.
When it doesn't work .......;)

[smoak]

I'm sick of the WR screen.

I'll remind you of that the next time Moss breaks one. ;)

Honestly, I love the WR screen, but I am worried we call too many! Also I feel with the exception of Dockery running after that fumble like it was a free chicken dinner, our o-line seems slow. We don't get out as well as some teams.

Regarding the conservative play calling, when you have a good defense, conservative is the way to go IMO. We ripped a lot of time off the clock and got it done. No complaints here. Yeah, maybe one day we'll get burnt doing that, but as of now I'm ok with it.

[vabeach_skinsfan]

No problems with the play calling tonight from me, except Run Clinton more outside and in passing game. That seven minute drive the oline took over.

I totally agree. We need to utilize his speed on the outside, I think he would be very affective that way. Then pound it on the inside with Betts, only if he promises to hold on to the rock!!!!

[smoak]

No problems with the play calling tonight from me, except Run Clinton more outside and in passing game. That seven minute drive the oline took over.

Teams will adjust if all you ever do is run outside. The really weird thing is I called the toss sweep play to Portis right before we did it and I was stunned that Gibbs actually called it.

Basically, I am of the mindset that the o-line needs to do a better job up front. Running up the middle is a key part of this offense and it comes down to winning the battle in the trenches.

[PennSkinsFan]

No problems with the play calling tonight from me, except Run Clinton more outside and in passing game. That seven minute drive the oline took over.

I agree. I don't get the whole concept of Portis running in the middle. It is not him. If ya wanna runt he middle use Betts. They need to do mor ethan two ptich otus per game to Portis is well. Portis can be deadley on those pitchouts.

BTW, big kudos to Portis. He ran hard, mae a game saving tackle, make a terrific catch, quite simply the guy is a gamer, plays hard every single play.

[Patrick]

I agree. I don't get the whole concept of Portis running in the middle. It is not him. If ya wanna runt he middle use Betts. They need to do mor ethan two ptich otus per game to Portis is well. Portis can be deadley on those pitchouts.

BTW, big kudos to Portis. He ran hard, mae a game saving tackle, make a terrific catch, quite simply the guy is a gamer, plays hard every single play.


Gibbs loves Portis's toughness and believe he can get it done up the middle. I just don't see it myself either. I swear CP must close his eyes when he hits that middle AND I've never (at least don't remember) seen him bounce one to the outside. Our OL is doing the job for the most part BUT lacks when it comes to "Clearing" the path.

[BigPlayJay]

FanFromArizona, how old are you? [Not being mean, just wondering...:)]

Gibbs has always been conservative down the stretch. I actually liked his play calling down the stretch. If we try to throw the ball and its incomplete, it gives the Eagles a lot of time left plus it saves them a TO.

Gibbs has been known to run the ball down the opponents throats in the 4th quarter if we have a lead. Nothing new really.

Once again, i'm trying to a ahole by asking your age. ;)

I agree. If Dallas hadn't called some stupid passes down the stretch while trying to run down the clock they would have beaten us.

[vabeach_skinsfan]

Portis did a good job on picking up the LBs and linemen to help give Bruhnell time to throw. He remains productive even when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. I know Gibbs appreciates that. But we have to run him more on counters and sweeps to the outside, then throw in Betts and let him pound it in the middle.

[guinness4health]

I didn't notice us being particularly conservative until we had 2nd and 17 and clearly conceded the drive to kill clock with two runs and then punt, but that is what you have to do in that situation. Other than that I didn't notice us change our gameplan at all.

but what else do you do in that situation (you don't want to stop the clock and don't want to force something stupid, just look at the fumble on 3 and 2 in field goal range...if not for portis' effort, that could have killed us!)

I think that that was the right play calling on that series...remember if is wasn't for the holding penalty (even thought i did really see anything on reply that convinced me there was holding, but that is another story)....we would have eat up the clock....

with the way the defensive had been playing the second half i liked the call...

although i am not sure i like a couple of those play calls by williams....

especially the blitz call on play that the eagles set up that huge screen for westbrook....coming guys that is there bread and butter right there, they catch us in an all out blitz on that side...

[SkinsFan4Life2003]

I'm sick of the WR screen.

This play only works if used every once in a blue moon, when you repeat the same play 5-7 times in one game, it becomes to predictable. I would much rather see a play-action, RB screen to Portis. It would give our blockers a chance to get ahead and create some running lanes for CP.

[Skin-E-Dip]

Its one thing to be conservative, its another to stop playing football against a good team. It was way too early to get super conservative. We happily gave the ball back to McNabb with 2 minutes and 2 time outs left and its only luck that they didnt tie the game. 2nd and 17 is very obtainable.

On the other hand it seems that the team has had a bad case of fumblitis and Gibbs may have just wanted it out of offensive hands.

I would like Gibbs conservative play calling more if he surprised teams with more random offensive big plays. The offense seems to only get in high gear with our backs against the wall

[vabeach_skinsfan]

I put it like this, Gibbs won 3 rings playing his type of game. Conservative or not, he was calling the right plays. Eliminating chances of turnovers and giving the oppositon an unreasonable chance of coming back is part of the game. On top of that, we had that lead. We did't need anymore points to beat them. We just had to manage the game and play D.

[Kope65]

Ask Drew Bledsoe about being conservative in late in the 4th against Seattle. He might think it is not such a bad idea.

[skinsdude]

I'm sick of the WR screen.

Amen to that!

[Wild Bore]

Let's just say that I have been a fan since the 80s, I know that Gibbs has always been conservative, the part I am referencing is when we are winning with like 4-5 minutes left in the game, I don't care about the calls themselves but we need to keep the chains moving, the last drive our offense had tonight was 3 straight running plays,

I know, if we throw the ball and we miss that stops the clock, but a little mix is what I am trying to say, teams are expecting a run each time, maybe a little fake, a reverse, SOMETHING other than 3 straight runs at the end and turn it over to the defense.

Yes, the calls for tonight were the correct ones, what I am talking about is our propensity to ALWAYS run and slow down the clock, it seems that when we get into the slow the game down, we lose the explosiveness of the pass threats.....can't I maybe get a pass call 10% of the time at the end?

It would have worked had we not gotten the holding call. Portis had a great run up the gut. Took a shot too. Anyway, that would have given us a fresh set of downs. It wasn't the conservative call that caused us to punt, it was the 10 yards penalty.

[whitskins]

but what else do you do in that situation (you don't want to stop the clock and don't want to force something stupid, just look at the fumble on 3 and 2 in field goal range...if not for portis' effort, that could have killed us!)

I think that that was the right play calling on that series...remember if is wasn't for the holding penalty (even thought i did really see anything on reply that convinced me there was holding, but that is another story)....we would have eat up the clock....

with the way the defensive had been playing the second half i liked the call...


I think you may have misunderstood my post, I agree with you. I said that was the only time in the game when we got very conservative but it was what we had to do at that point. I agree that Gibbs made the right call.

[vabeach_skinsfan]

Originally Posted by FanFromArizona
Let's just say that I have been a fan since the 80s, I know that Gibbs has always been conservative, the part I am referencing is when we are winning with like 4-5 minutes left in the game, I don't care about the calls themselves but we need to keep the chains moving, the last drive our offense had tonight was 3 straight running plays,

I know, if we throw the ball and we miss that stops the clock, but a little mix is what I am trying to say, teams are expecting a run each time, maybe a little fake, a reverse, SOMETHING other than 3 straight runs at the end and turn it over to the defense.

Yes, the calls for tonight were the correct ones, what I am talking about is our propensity to ALWAYS run and slow down the clock, it seems that when we get into the slow the game down, we lose the explosiveness of the pass threats.....can't I maybe get a pass call 10% of the time at the end?

Yeah the holding call hurt us. Portis had a first down, but was negated by a holding call from Rabach. That put us in long first down situation, and by then it US was playing the clock, not the Iggles. Why risk throwing it on a third and forever and do the eagles a favor by stopping the clock if you fail to complete a pass atleast! We did what anyone with 3 supebowl rings would have done, and it OBVIOUSLY worked.

[whistleandthumb]

Gibbs can be conservative with the play calling (as evidenced in our games last year), but I don't think we EVER got conservative last night. While it scared me to put the ball back into the Iggles' hands at the end of the game, I understood the decision to run the clock down. I'd rather have our defense out there, making them drive the length of the field, than Brunell trying to pass for a 1st Down, only to have the ball intercepted or something.

[GWBlitzST]

I was more concerned with our play calling early in the game. We need to run the ball more at the beginning I believe. And there was one play on an early third down where James Thrash came in as a receiver, in man coverage, only to motion inside and block the guy who was covering him at the LOS. What is the freaking point of that? Why not send him on a rout?

At the end of the game, the only thing I had a problem with was when we called a timeout with 1 second on the play clock before a PUNT. Why didn't we just snap the Fing ball? It is little things like that that can come back to bite you in the ass, and I don't understand why it keeps happening.

[FanFromArizona]

One of the issues I have with the playcalling lately is that we seem to be claiming victory too early with our conservative play-calling at the end of games. Yes, we have been winning, and yes, conservative prevents turnovers, but conservative also leads to many 3 and outs and enough time for the other team to try a last minute comeback.

I would like to see a different approach when we are trying to run the clock down: At least 1 pass attempt per series to keep the chains [and time] moving. TOO conservative playcalling leads to many 3 and outs and games that leave me shouting at the tube and praying. I think we have been giving the other teams too much time to make a comeback, especially when the game is 1 series away from being tied or lost. If you are going to run exclusively I would like us to be winning by at least 2 possessions worth.

I am going to bring this thread back to life, because for the SECOND week in a row, we are leaving it up to our defense to close games out, I know I saw it reverberated today in some threads, but one area we need to work on is CLOSING the game out.

We were up 7 points with 3.5 minutes left and all we needed to do was run the clock out. AGAIN we ran 3 straight running plays and could not make a 1st down to run the clock down. I am seeing a weakness in this area.

[X-Factor13]

The reason Gibbs was so conservative this was is because brunell can't hold on to the FREAKING BALL!!! It's ridiculous to put the game in the hands of someone with butterfingers. 4 turnovers? what?

[rskinsfan10]

I have no issues with the play calling today.

[whitskins]

I'm sorry, running the ball on third and TWO is not being overly conservative. Third and two is a legitimate running down, especially against a team on which you've run for nearly 175 yards on already that day.

Come on, we got stopped short and it sucks but we didn't concede the darn drive or anything... If the O-line could just man up when the game is on the line there and blast some fools out of the way then we get a first down and win. Gibbs deserves no blame for this.

[FanFromArizona]

The reason Gibbs was so conservative this was is because brunell can't hold on to the FREAKING BALL!!! It's ridiculous to put the game in the hands of someone with butterfingers. 4 turnovers? what?

I disagree, the lack of holding the ball was in the beginning of the game, we were marching up and down the field the entire second half. That 3 and 2 play at the end of the game, I wish we had a better result, either better execution or perhaps a different play called. All we needed was a new set of downs and the outcome would have been different.

[redskin_rich]

You can't blame this loss on the Offense. Even with the turnovers, they overcame and took the lead. This loss falls on the Defense, they failed us today.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

I am going to bring this thread back to life, because for the SECOND week in a row, we are leaving it up to our defense to close games out, I know I saw it reverberated today in some threads, but one area we need to work on is CLOSING the game out.

We were up 7 points with 3.5 minutes left and all we needed to do was run the clock out. AGAIN we ran 3 straight running plays and could not make a 1st down to run the clock down. I am seeing a weakness in this area.
i cant blame playcalling, i blame the OL mostly. the coaches should have enough confidence in the running game to make 10 yards on the ground. just like when its 3rd and goal with 3 yards to go, your line needs to make the push to get into the goalline. the OL needs some nastiness IMO.

[FanFromArizona]

I'm sorry, running the ball on third and TWO is not being overly conservative. Third and two is a legitimate running down, especially against a team on which you've run for nearly 175 yards on already that day.

Come on, we got stopped short and it sucks but we didn't concede the darn drive or anything... If the O-line could just man up when the game is on the line there and blast some fools out of the way then we get a first down and win. Gibbs deserves no blame for this.

Sorry to disagree with everyone, but I am asking that we focus on play calling at the end of the game, focus on the last 2 games, we are 1-1 and could have easily been 0-2. Both weeks we had the lead and we have STATISTICALLY ran the ball 100% of the time. As in RUN the ball. Could we have had a short dump like we had on 4th and 1 with the call to Cooley?
Perhaps something different, am I asking for too much? A conservative PASS perhaps?

[FanFromArizona]

i cant blame playcalling, i blame the OL mostly. the coaches should have enough confidence in the running game to make 10 yards on the ground. just like when its 3rd and goal with 3 yards to go, your line needs to make the push to get into the goalline. the OL needs some nastiness IMO.

Well I can remember in the beginning of the year when we did not have a rushing TD, we went to our strengths, punching it in with the passing game.
I know Joe is a smart man, if he does not have faith in the OLine to cause a push, then use their strengths and not their weaknesses and work on strengthening it during practice. If Joe does not have confidence that the O-Line can get the 2 yards worth of push, perhaps a short dump off, a Brunell counter-roll with a lead block from Sellers would have worked just fine.

[whitskins]

Well I can remember in the beginning of the year when we did not have a rushing TD, we went to our strengths, punching it in with the passing game.
I know Joe is a smart man, if he does not have faith in the OLine to cause a push, then use their strengths and not their weaknesses and work on strengthening it during practice. If Joe does not have confidence that the O-Line can get the 2 yards worth of push, perhaps a short dump off, a Brunell counter-roll with a lead block from Sellers would have worked just fine.

We didn't play to our strengths? Come on, Clinton Portis had nearly 150 yards rushing in the game, as a team we had over 175, so running the ball on third and TWO isn't playing to our strengths? I don't see how Joe Gibbs is at fault for coming up short there at all. We did play to our strengths, we were dominating running the ball and it didn't work out.

[tessy]

In my humble opinion, and I don't mean any disrespect, we may have to change our strategy, even if only a bit. In this day and age, one TD lead is not enough to begin playing conservatively. Philly ALMOST tied the game last week. TB ALMOST tied the game this week, but ended up winning.

We need to be ahead by at least 8 points to begin riding the clock. Having won such an incredible come-from-behind victory in Dallass, we, of all people, should know that a lot can still happen in the last 3 minutes of the game. Our defense can start to suck, like they did today. Officials can make bad calls, like they did today. We can make stupid/costly penalties, like we did today when we were called off-side during the extra point attempt.

8 points, that is all I ask. Then, we can chew all the clock we want....

[FanFromArizona]

You can't blame this loss on the Offense. Even with the turnovers, they overcame and took the lead. This loss falls on the Defense, they failed us today.

I agree the loss fell on the defense, but it would be nice to see us win a game with the offense on the field taking a knee. The best defense to winning a game is keeping the defense off the field.

[BurgundyNGold]

I agree the loss fell on the defense, but it would be nice to see us win a game with the offense on the field taking a knee. The best defense to winning a game is keeping the defense off the field.
Didn't that happen against Philly last week? :D

[FanFromArizona]

We didn't play to our strengths? Come on, Clinton Portis had nearly 150 yards rushing in the game, as a team we had over 175, so running the ball on third and TWO isn't playing to our strengths? I don't see how Joe Gibbs is at fault for coming up short there at all. We did play to our strengths, we were dominating running the ball and it didn't work out.

I would surmise that the strength of our running and passing game starts with the OLine. The strength of the call starts with the OLine, when I refer to "playing to our strenghts" I am referring the OLine strength, if the OLine is weak[creating the separation for the RB/ holding protection to allow the QB to make the accurate throw] then the play will never develop, which is what has been happening the past 2 weeks. The run stoppage tonight was due to no push from the line, he was stopped at the LOS tonight.

All I am saying is that the strength of the Oline in creating running lanes has just not been there at the end of the game, every time I see us going this way I feel like :banghead:

[FanFromArizona]

Didn't that happen against Philly last week? :D

after having survived that heart attack, it would have been nice to have won the time of possession in the last 5 minutes of the game? 3 and out and the lucky last minute INT, but not before Philly had marched down the field.....

I would like to see us finish the last 3-5 minutes with the ball in our court and "close" the game out with our offense on the field for the ENTIRE time.

An automatic win each time we are ahead and have the ball with 3-5 minutes left in the 4th, YEE HAW!

[MWballer]

This is GIbbs this is how hes always been so for ppl to complain about it now is ridiculous he was Conservative when he got those Super Bowl Rings hes conservative now. Our run game was working he went with it we didnt make thas it.

[whitskins]

I would surmise that the strength of our running and passing game starts with the OLine. The strength of the call starts with the OLine, when I refer to "playing to our strenghts" I am referring the OLine strength, if the OLine is weak[creating the separation for the RB/ holding protection to allow the QB to make the accurate throw] then the play will never develop, which is what has been happening the past 2 weeks. The run stoppage tonight was due to no push from the line, he was stopped at the LOS tonight.

All I am saying is that the strength of the Oline in creating running lanes has just not been there, every time I see us going this way I feel like :banghead:

I'm sorry, this doesn't really make sense to me. On one hand you're preaching that we need to play to our strengths, on the other you're criticizing the coach for calling a run on third and two when we had run for nearly 200 yards on the ground at that point.

So... by running the ball on third and two we did not play to our strengths despite having dominated in the run game throughout? To me this just sounds like second guessing because we came up inches short of the first down.

At least it was more relevant last week when Portis had less than 70 yards rushing for the game, but today he had 144!! Running the ball on third and two when your RB is having a monster day is not conceding the drive and choosing to punt... I didn't agree with this argument last week but I agree with it much less this week.

[BurgundyNGold]

If our D had actually done its job and stopped the opposing team and we didn't give TB 14 points off of our stoopid turnovers, this game wouldn't have been close and there would'nt have been a problem with Gibbs' conservativism. Futhermore, if we played this TB team 10 times, we would win at least 7 of them. They got one of their 3 today.

Live it up Chris Simms! Next week, you're back to being a bum with a 47.3 QB rating.

[Dept_of_Defense]

Today was the best and worst game I have seen in many years. I'm pretty speechless with everything that went right and everything that went wrong. Having 18 unanswered points to start the second half-overcoming an 11 point deficit and taking the lead......only to lose it on offsides penalty and a questionable 2 pt conversion. Wow.
________
Avandia settlement information (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/avandia/)

[FanFromArizona]

Quote:
Originally Posted by FanFromArizona
I would surmise that the strength of our running and passing game starts with the OLine. The strength of the call starts with the OLine, when I refer to "playing to our strenghts" I am referring the OLine strength, if the OLine is weak[creating the separation for the RB/ holding protection to allow the QB to make the accurate throw] then the play will never develop, which is what has been happening the past 2 weeks. The run stoppage tonight was due to no push from the line, he was stopped at the LOS tonight.

All I am saying is that the strength of the Oline in creating running lanes has just not been there[INSERT WORDS HERE], every time I see us going this way I feel like


I'm sorry, this doesn't really make sense to me. On one hand you're preaching that we need to play to our strengths, on the other you're criticizing the coach for calling a run on third and two when we had run for nearly 200 yards on the ground at that point.

So... by running the ball on third and two we did not play to our strengths despite having dominated in the run game throughout? To me this just sounds like second guessing because we came up inches short of the first down.

At least it was more relevant last week when Portis had less than 70 yards rushing for the game, but today he had 144!! Running the ball on third and two when your RB is having a monster day is not conceding the drive and choosing to punt... I didn't agree with this argument last week but I agree with it much less this week.

The words I should have inserted are: "AT THE END OF THE GAME"

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you state above, I am talking about the LAST 5 minutes of games, I am not looking at the entire game. I can see both sides of the coin on this, stick with what has been working, but over the past couple of games, AT THE END OF THE GAME, WITH THE LEAD, WITH UNDER 5 MINUTES LEFT, my comments are focusing on that time of the game. Our OLine strength at that time of game does not seem to be creating the running lanes.

[whistleandthumb]

The problem isn't the decision to run the ball... it's the running play that was chosen. Everyone in the stadium knew we were going to be conservative and try to use clock by running, and TB played us to run by stacking the line with about 9 guys. And the play we choose is... run up the middle?!?!?

I understand the argument that the OL should be good enough to get a 2 yard push, but when the D knows that a run is coming, and can brace for that 2 yard push, it's not as easy to get as maybe 1st and 10 in the middle of the first quarter. Why can't we run a pitch? Or, maybe an off tackle run? Why not a quick handoff to Sellers or Cooley? Something, ANYTHING creative to help us win the game.

If we'd gotten that first down, we don't give the refs a chance to steal the game from us. And it was the most lousy playcalling of the year.

[FanFromArizona]

The problem isn't the decision to run the ball... it's the running play that was chosen. Everyone in the stadium knew we were going to be conservative and try to use clock by running, and TB played us to run by stacking the line with about 9 guys. And the play we choose is... run up the middle?!?!?

I understand the argument that the OL should be good enough to get a 2 yard push, but when the D knows that a run is coming, and can brace for that 2 yard push, it's not as easy to get as maybe 1st and 10 in the middle of the first quarter. Why can't we run a pitch? Or, maybe an off tackle run? Why not a quick handoff to Sellers or Cooley? Something, ANYTHING creative to help us win the game.

If we'd gotten that first down, we don't give the refs a chance to steal the game from us. And it was the most lousy playcalling of the year.

This is EXACTLY what I have been talking about, knowing that we would only run the ball, I can understand two out of 3 plays, but not ALL 3. Finally someone who understands my opinion and spells it out eloquently.

[smoak]

Portis ripped it up all game and I could NOT agree more with Gibbs decision to go three straight runs at the end of the game. This "defense" is supposed to be able to close out games.

[GWBlitzST]

How about his decision to run a WR screen to start the 2nd quarter after running it 5 times in the first quarter? You think Chucky didn't see that one coming? Result--Simeon Rice goes out to cover, gets an INT. Bad coaching.

On the other hand, damned if we haven't started running TOSSES to Portis, plays which he averages about 8 yards a carry. It's about time we got away from the run it up the gut every damn running play, only to have Brunell convert a third and 8.

[Warpath23]

One of the issues I have with the playcalling lately is that we seem to be claiming victory too early with our conservative play-calling at the end of games. Yes, we have been winning, and yes, conservative prevents turnovers, but conservative also leads to many 3 and outs and enough time for the other team to try a last minute comeback.

I would like to see a different approach when we are trying to run the clock down: At least 1 pass attempt per series to keep the chains [and time] moving. TOO conservative playcalling leads to many 3 and outs and games that leave me shouting at the tube and praying. I think we have been giving the other teams too much time to make a comeback, especially when the game is 1 series away from being tied or lost. If you are going to run exclusively I would like us to be winning by at least 2 possessions worth.

I've been saying this for the longest...TB had one TO left and would have been done if we get that 1st down

[smoak]

I've been saying this for the longest...TB had one TO left and would have been done if we get that 1st down

And if the ball falls incomplete, then TB has an extra timeout in their pocket. It was not a bad call. Look at dallass. Had they run more when still up by 6, it is possible that we don't win the game.

You can "what if" every game, but I stand by that decision 100%.

[Warpath23]

And if the ball falls incomplete, then TB has an extra timeout in their pocket. It was not a bad call. Look at dallass. Had they run more when still up by 6, it is possible that we don't win the game.

You can "what if" every game, but I stand by that decision 100%. Atleast give yourself a run pass option, thats all I'm saying. Bootleg or play action to Sellers is as good as a run plus safe plays..if its not there just run it. But 3 runs up the middle when they know thats what you're doing is just being scared. Atleast stretch it

[War Hogg]

Two things I want to add to this thread:

There needs be LIMIT on the amount of times Gibbs runs that wide receiver screen in one game....That play is only effective 3 times in a game! Max!

Second, Portis is tough as nails but he is not a short yardage back....We have a big back in Neimiah Broughton...what is he here for if we cant make him an exclusive short yardage back and he never touches the field?

[chrisbcbu]

Two things I want to add to this thread:

There needs be LIMIT on the amount of times Gibbs runs that wide receiver screen in one game....That play is only effective 3 times in a game! Max!

Second, Portis is tough as nails but he is not a short yardage back....We have a big back in Neimiah Broughton...what is he here for if we cant make him an exclusive short yardage back and he never touches the field?

Nemo was on the inactive list so he was unavailable for the game.

I agree with the WR screen. If they are playing tight coverage, Brunell should be able to Audible out of it.

[silverspring]

I have no problem with the playcalling. When you are in a situation like this running the clock down and slowing the game down is what you do. The problem is we should be getting those first downs with those play calls, the whole point of it is that it takes 3 long downs to get that first. It makes perfect sense, but it seems like every game when we are in that situation the Offense(offensive line) doesn't step up and make it happen. It is like they think they have the game won and sit down.

[smoak]

Atleast give yourself a run pass option, thats all I'm saying. Bootleg or play action to Sellers is as good as a run plus safe plays..if its not there just run it. But 3 runs up the middle when they know thats what you're doing is just being scared. Atleast stretch it

With the way Portis was tearing up the Bucs, and the way guys have tipped balls for INTs, passing would have been risky IMO. All we needed there was pressure and Brunell to fumble or a tipped pass and we're in trouble. this defense is paid to stop people and they did everything but.

I see your point... I really do. We just disagree.

[chrisbcbu]

With the way Portis was tearing up the Bucs, and the way guys have tipped balls for INTs, passing would have been risky IMO. All we needed there was pressure and Brunell to fumble or a tipped pass and we're in trouble. this defense is paid to stop people and they did everything but.

I see your point... I really do. We just disagree.

See on the 3rd down play, i would have called for a play action bootleg for Brunell. Everyone knew that the running play was coming straight up the middle. The bootleg would have been a better call in that situation.

[smoak]

See on the 3rd down play, i would have called for a play action bootleg for Brunell. Everyone knew that the running play was coming straight up the middle. The bootleg would have been a better call in that situation.

Everyone and their mother knew Alstott was coming each time his number was called. Sometimes I believe you have to beat a team when they know what is coming. I've been watching some old Skins games and there are times I can call the play (not from memory mind you) and the Skins still just blow people off the ball.

I'm not saying you or anyone is wrong. I'm just saying it is easy for us to second guess. Just like it is easy for me to second guess GW blitzing Springs left and right.

[whitskins]

Anybody see the Eagles and McNabb "play to win" on second and 7 with less than three minutes left? Interception for a TD and now they're losing...

[CowboyKilla]

Bootleg Bootleg Bootleg. He doesn't even have to throw it. If its not there take the sack or try to get it with your feet Brunell. I totally understand the call but I would have liked the see......The Bootleg.

[smoak]

Bootleg Bootleg Bootleg. He doesn't even have to throw it. If its not there take the sack or try to get it with your feet Brunell. I totally understand the call but I would have liked the see......The Bootleg.

With the way Brunell carries the ball, I prefer he only run when something breaks down, but that is me.

[smoak]

Anybody see the Eagles and McNabb "play to win" on second and 7 with less than three minutes left? Interception for a TD and now they're losing...

YES!!! Thank you Whit!! For all you Monday morning QBs out there that love to second guess Gibbs, you know darned well you'd be furious if we went pass and threw a pick in that spot. The bottom line is that Portis got buig yardage on first down and was running well all game so Gibbs did play conservative, but it was not a give away play. I just think it is insane that people are upset about this...