Worst. Package. Ever.

[BurgundyNGold]

It happened again this week. Lemar Marshall was isolated covering a receiver across the deep middle. The first time I saw this was against Denver, where Jeb Putzier beat Marshall deep. Over the past few weeks, I've seen Philly (McMullen), TB (Galloway) and now Oakland (Porter) take advantage of this coverage with nearly the same WR route. Of course, Marshall keeps getting owned on these routes because of the HUGE mismatch.

Maybe someone could enlighten me as to how or why this keeps happening?

[akhhorus]

Its Cover-2 Defense and you can always beat that with a middle deep route. I suspect that Taylor and the safeties were told to focus on Moss, and Taylor took up the exchange from Rogers on Moss and Rogers took the short routes. Porter broke free in what appeared to be a improv route because Collins threw a terrible pass.

[colkurtz]

Bottom Line is that our defense kept the Raiders to only 16 points.

Our offense could only come up with 9 points. They should have been about to do better to win this game.

[BurgundyNGold]

Its Cover-2 Defense and you can always beat that with a middle deep route. I suspect that Taylor and the safeties were told to focus on Moss, and Taylor took up the exchange from Rogers on Moss and Rogers took the short routes. Porter broke free in what appeared to be a improv route because Collins threw a terrible pass.
I don't buy your reasoning. There is no way Porter should've been covered by Marshall that deep unless the package had him covering that area or Marshall just made the wrong alignment call.

To illustrate this point, why did the Galloway beat Marshall to the same spot the previous week? Were the corners told to focus on [Clayton] and [INSERT OTHER NOMINAL WR THREAT HERE]? Clearly, Galloway was the #1 threat on the field. There is no way a MLB should EVER be matched up on Galloway in that area of the field.

[BurgundyNGold]

Bottom Line is that our defense kept the Raiders to only 16 points.

Our offense could only come up with 9 points. They should have been about to do better to win this game.
This thread isn't about the offense. It's about Marshall covering WRs.

[Spence]

Marshall is supposed to cover Porter [or whichever receiver goes down the middle] in that play. It works fine if you get a big pash rush on the play because the wideout won't get open in time for the quarterback to complete a long pass. If there is no pass rush, however, you give up a long touchdown pass. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the play -- unless you're calling it for a team that has no pass rush.

Regarded in such a light, one must question the wisdom of calling that play for this Redskins team.

[danny's stogie]

http://hailredskins.com/vbforum/showpost.php?p=613349&postcount=12

Akh- it looked designed to me, but I will admit that I only watched it when it happened (too busy breaking the remote while it happened). Taylor clearly bit too early on the corner route, but does anyone know what was going on with the SS? Did Taylor expect him to get over and cover Porter?

[BurgundyNGold]

Marshall is supposed to cover Porter [or whichever receiver goes down the middle] in that play. It works fine if you get a big pash rush on the play because the wideout won't get open in time for the quarterback to complete a long pass. If there is no pass rush, however, you give up a long touchdown pass. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the play -- unless you're calling it for a team that has no pass rush.

Regarded in such a light, one must question the wisdom of calling that play for this Redskins team.
Having a MLB cover a WR with a sub 4.4 40 time is asinine, even if it is only for 3 seconds. 3 seconds is all it takes. In this case, 4 seconds resulted in a TD.

[colkurtz]

This thread isn't about the offense. It's about Marshall covering WRs.

Your examples tell me that Shawn Taylor still needs to work on the mental aspects of the game for all his physical talents.

With little or no pass rush, it amazes me that more QBs aren't ripping our DBs even more than they have. When QBs have 5-6 seconds of read time they have ample opportunity to get the ball to an open man.

I also submit that Lemar Marshall is not an equal replacement to Antonio Brown.

[HAWGZHEAD]

Marshall is supposed to cover Porter [or whichever receiver goes down the middle] in that play. It works fine if you get a big pash rush on the play because the wideout won't get open in time for the quarterback to complete a long pass. If there is no pass rush, however, you give up a long touchdown pass. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the play -- unless you're calling it for a team that has no pass rush.

Regarded in such a light, one must question the wisdom of calling that play for this Redskins team.Agreed, if you give Collins 4 sec to stand back there in that play when he should be hurried inside of 3 the coverage breaks down and leaves Marshalll succeptible to the mismatch. So why with our pass rush performing the way it does are we calling that play, in the hopes we get lucky?

[Spence]

Having a MLB cover a WR with a sub 4.4 40 time is asinine, even if it is only for 3 seconds. 3 seconds is all it takes. In this case, 4 seconds resulted in a TD.I've seen the play work many times. Gregg Williams didn't invent it. Jeff Fisher has used it often for the Titans. Buddy Ryan did it all the time for the Bears, Eagles, Oilers, and Cardinals. The play works very well if you get a good pass rush. The problem is that this Redskins team just doesn't rush the passer very well at all.

[BurgundyNGold]

I've seen the play work many times. Gregg Williams didn't invent it. Jeff Fisher has used it often for the Titans. Buddy Ryan did it all the time for the Bears, Eagles, Oilers, and Cardinals. The play works very well if you get a good pass rush. The problem is that this Redskins team just doesn't rush the passer very well at all.
Well, then, I have to agree with your assessment: Lose that play until next year.

[danny's stogie]

Having a MLB cover a WR with a sub 4.4 40 time is asinine, even if it is only for 3 seconds. 3 seconds is all it takes. In this case, 4 seconds resulted in a TD.

If it's any consolation, Pierce wouldn't have been within 10 yards of Porter at that point.

[BurgundyNGold]

If it's any consolation, Pierce wouldn't have been within 10 yards of Porter at that point.
No, not really. I just don't like seeing the same coverage get exploited week in and week out.

[SkinsASchamps]

This package really is getting exposed. Someone is figuring out that this is the coverage they will get on a certain play because it is getting burned. Without the pass rush its not going to work. I hope we rearrange this so it doesnt happen against Gates if he plays.

[2Cooley]

I don't buy your reasoning. There is no way Porter should've been covered by Marshall that deep unless the package had him covering that area or Marshall just made the wrong alignment call.

To illustrate this point, why did the Galloway beat Marshall to the same spot the previous week? Were the corners told to focus on [Clayton] and [INSERT OTHER NOMINAL WR THREAT HERE]? Clearly, Galloway was the #1 threat on the field. There is no way a MLB should EVER be matched up on Galloway in that area of the field.
they were running a tampa 2 and thats what the MLB does

[BurgundyNGold]

they were running a tampa 2 and thats what the MLB does
Then it's a bad idea. Lemar Marshall vs. any WR = WR wins.

[guinness4health]

I watched the reply and both of the deep safety sat on the two underneath routes (taylor made the correct read it seems because he seemed to be shadowing Moss most of the game) but the other safety (i think it was Prioleau, but can't be sure) did absolutely nothing, he sat in his zone while Porter and Marshall ran within a couple of feet of him. With the short route run by the receiver opposite of moss, and the Raiders love of the deep ball, i am still not sure why the safety didn't cover the one deep route...

but i do have to say that marshall did about as good a job as any middle linebacker could be asked to do in that situation

[BurgundyNGold]

I watched the reply and both of the deep safety sat on the two underneath routes (taylor made the correct read it seems because he seemed to be shadowing Moss most of the game) but the other safety (i think it was Prioleau, but can't be sure) did absolutely nothing, he sat in his zone while Porter and Marshall ran within a couple of feet of him. With the short route run by the receiver opposite of moss, and the Raiders love of the deep ball, i am still not sure why the safety didn't cover the one deep route...

but i do have to say that marshall did about as good a job as any middle linebacker could be asked to do in that situation
He didn't stand a chance, that's my point. I applaud his effort, but he still got beat. A MLB should not be covering Galloway or Porter or any WR in the deep middle.

[Biggie]

You should also remember that Collins threw that ball like he was threading a needle, considering that it was the exact spot that it had to be in to be a touchdown. Porter never even looked back for it, and when you throw a ball that well that quickly, most DBs probably wouldn't be able to cover it. Don't blame Marshall or the defensive playcall too much; it was an incredible throw.

[danny's stogie]

Then it's a bad idea. Lemar Marshall vs. any WR = WR wins.

No, that's not the cover 2. The MLB isn't supposed to have to cover the deep routes. The Raiders called a play that exploits cover 2. The outside runs a corner, the slot runs a go, and the safety is forced to choose one or the other to cover. The QB throws to the reciever the safety chooses not to cover. Had the slot ran a slant or the outside reciever run an out the defense wins the battle. Give the Raiders a little credit for calling the right play at the right time.

[BurgundyNGold]

No, that's not the cover 2. The MLB isn't supposed to have to cover the deep routes. The Raiders called a play that exploits cover 2. The outside runs a corner, the slot runs a go, and the safety is forced to choose one or the other to cover. The QB throws to the reciever the safety chooses not to cover. Had the slot ran a slant or the outside reciever run an out the defense wins the battle. Give the Raiders a little credit for calling the right play at the right time.
My problem is that the same play gets called against us -- and is successful -- week in and week out. Want to wager that it gets tried by Marty this week?

[nynate]

With little or no pass rush, it amazes me that more QBs aren't ripping our DBs even more than they have. When QBs have 5-6 seconds of read time they have ample opportunity to get the ball to an open man.




In the begining of the season we were giving up big running plays and locking down the pass, so teams tried rushing at our left side, now teams realize that we've bulked up our rush defense and that QB'a are getting all day to throw. I think from now on teams will max protect and wait for the deep guy to get open. The bad thing is is that I don't know if we'll have an answer for it. I guess the answer is going to have to open up the offense and score as many points as possible, and be a little more conservitve on D and not blitz so much...

[IowaSkinsFan]

I've seen the play work many times. Gregg Williams didn't invent it. Jeff Fisher has used it often for the Titans. Buddy Ryan did it all the time for the Bears, Eagles, Oilers, and Cardinals. The play works very well if you get a good pass rush. The problem is that this Redskins team just doesn't rush the passer very well at all.

You could omit "very well" from your last sentence and be more concise.

[hail2skins]

Having a MLB cover a WR with a sub 4.4 40 time is asinine, even if it is only for 3 seconds. 3 seconds is all it takes. In this case, 4 seconds resulted in a TD.I don't think a CB or Safety would have had even better coverage on that play. Marshall was with him and the ball was thrown perfectly on his back shoulder.

[Spence]

You could omit "very well" from your last sentence and be more concise.I'm trying to be kind now since I plan on being very cruel in The World's Most Prestigious Power Poll.

[HAWGZHEAD]

I'm trying to be kind now since I plan on being very cruel in The World's Most Prestigious Power Poll.:lol1:

[Redskinmayhem]

I don't think a CB or Safety would have had even better coverage on that play. Marshall was with him and the ball was thrown perfectly on his back shoulder.

agreed, that was a heck of a throw. it was where it had to be. Let's not sell LM short, he had good coverage on that play. Porter got lucky because he never looked back to tip LM off to where the ball was coming from.

[BurgundyNGold]

I don't think a CB or Safety would have had even better coverage on that play. Marshall was with him and the ball was thrown perfectly on his back shoulder.
I think he should've had S help over the top in a Cover 2.

[hail2skins]

I think he should've had S help over the top in a Cover 2.Depends on the number of receivers on the field.

[BurgundyNGold]

agreed, that was a heck of a throw. it was where it had to be. Let's not sell LM short, he had good coverage on that play. Porter got lucky because he never looked back to tip LM off to where the ball was coming from.
Let's not give him too much credit either. For all we know, he aligned the defense incorrectly and had to make up for it by covering Joey Porter. Whatever happened, it has happened the exact same way multiple times this season and 3 weeks in a row now. THAT is inexcusable.

[CowboyKilla]

True. Same question I had. It wasn't why we lost but still an enigma.
Why we lost: Check Brunell, Portis and the offensive coaches.

[RedskinsDave]

When I first saw this title I thought another picture of the "crack of doom" got out............

[BurgundyNGold]

When I first saw this title I thought another picture of the "crack of doom" got out............
LOL, no that would be the fabled "Track of Womb".

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

coach gibbs on nbc 4 just said its some package they were working on (looks like it didnt work).....didnt get to hear the explanation on what happened on the play though. marshall did have pretty good coverage on porter for such a big mismatch, i'll give him that.

[MONK_in_HOF]

I haven't understood using lemar/levar in man to man on speed WR in the past few weeks. Marshall did have pretty good coverage considering the matchup. Collins made a smart throw leading his man away from the D and Porter made great adjustment to pull it in. Still leaving our LB's man to man on speed WR's is like playing w/ fire with our pass rush. Also it appeared the skins were running cover 1 not cover 2. It seemed to me that Taylor had been assigned to double and/or provide over the top coverage on Moss basically every pass play.

[redwolf1218]

i know i saw Lemar Marshall matched up 3 times on Porter, with all 3 being successful catches by Porter, one of them a TD. Any QB is going to drooling when he sees that kind of a matchup.

[2Cooley]

No, that's not the cover 2. The MLB isn't supposed to have to cover the deep routes. The Raiders called a play that exploits cover 2. The outside runs a corner, the slot runs a go, and the safety is forced to choose one or the other to cover. The QB throws to the reciever the safety chooses not to cover. Had the slot ran a slant or the outside reciever run an out the defense wins the battle. Give the Raiders a little credit for calling the right play at the right time.
Yes the was a form of the cover 2 called the tampa 2 and that is what the MLB does, he gets up the field to guard the deep route.

[lakewinola]

It happened because there was absolutely no pressure on the quarterback, which gave porter time to get to the coverage mismatch.

[Syllable]

What do you guys think about the amount of catches teh running backs caught on the raiders offense? Were we even covering them all game? This does coincide with the fact that we had no pressure so he could just dump it off. Somehow Gregg Williams went from the crazy blitz man. To the cover 10 man, where qbs have all day to throw on his lame packages. This happened last year but it wasnt as big as this year.