TO to the Redskins?

[Redskinfan28]

I hate to post speculation, but apparently there was a guy on Cold Pizza who said that the Redskins, with thier recent injuries at WR, are seeking to acquire TO. This guy said that his sources indicate that it is between the Falcons and the Redskins if TO is allowed to play again this year.

Anyway, they are talking about it here: www.terptown.com

[akhhorus]

The only way for TO to leave is if he's cut, and then he goes through the Waivers. Ain't no way he makes it to the Skins on that. And ain't no way the Eagles cut him.

[skinswin]

I disagree. Ultimately the Eagles will have to cut him. He's due a big roster bonus in March so the Eagles will cut him before then.

But I don't want the guy on our team. He's proven he's a cancer.

[redcayman]

For the last 5 games of the season considering our WR situation I would support whatever the front office decided to do. I do believe if your going to get TO now is the time to do so. He would be on his best behavior and hes definitly has the incentive to play hard and not cause trouble. Because of our record I believe we would have first shot at him over the falcons.

[helimech24]

I have been on the fense with this one. On one hand, the Redskins would get arguable the best WR in the league. On the other hand, he is so disfunctional that he destroys teams' lockerroom. I just can't decide. I almost think it would be worth it for a half of a year, and it would free up Moss down field.

[MoeRedskins]

TO will only play for the Eagles this year, and there is little to no chance that he would play again for them this year. I doubt the skins even think of picking him up ever. NO way he would get along with anybody in the locker room, and I have a feeling that guys like Lavar, Taylor, and Portis wouldn't be afraid to throw down w/TO.

[akhhorus]

I disagree. Ultimately the Eagles will have to cut him. He's due a big roster bonus in March so the Eagles will cut him before then.

But I don't want the guy on our team. He's proven he's a cancer.

Oh yeah, they will cut him in the offseason, but he isn't leaving that team until then. Imagine the criticism they would get if they cut him, only to see him end up in an NFC east team.

[Redskinfan28]

Oh yeah, they will cut him in the offseason, but he isn't leaving that team until then. Imagine the criticism they would get if they cut him, only to see him end up in an NFC east team.

I agree, but since the Eagles are out of it, what do they care? My fear is that he goes to the Cowboys, cleans up his act for the rest of the year to get a new K, and the Boys go far in the playoffs. I would have to kick my dog if that happened.

[helimech24]

Oh yeah, they will cut him in the offseason, but he isn't leaving that team until then. Imagine the criticism they would get if they cut him, only to see him end up in an NFC east team.

But wouldn't that be so funny to see. It makes me so happy to have the Eagles looking up at everyone else in the division.:devil2:

[Santheb]

I'd sacrifice team sanity for a Super Bowl run, just as long as he doesn't stay here after that :/

[PennSkinsFan]

I would lose all respect for the Redskins front office.

[helimech24]

I'd sacrifice team sanity for a Super Bowl run, just as long as he doesn't stay here after that :/

I feel the same way. Desperate times call for desperate measures. We need another receiver now.:devil2:

[BurgundyNGold]

I would lose all respect for the Redskins front office.
And it's not like they have a lot to begin with.

[MONK_in_HOF]

It is almost certain that Philly will pocket Owens for the season until he is due that roster bonus in the offseason. I have a feeling he will be in a cowboys uniform next season. I just really think he will stay somewhere in the NFC east to carry out a vendetta against Philly, and Dallas is the most likely destination IMO. I would welcome him if he realizes this is the last time he can pull his crap, but that is the million dollar question all NFL teams in need of a WR will be asking themselves. If he could just be cooperative there is not many players with better ROI.

[GibbsRules!]

The only way for TO to leave is if he's cut, and then he goes through the Waivers. Ain't no way he makes it to the Skins on that. And ain't no way the Eagles cut him.
That's what I'd think. If the Eagles let him go he will go to the worst possible team. No way he'd get to us and even if he did Gibbs probably would avoid him like the plague.

The Eagles probably envision a scenario where he goes somewhere and gets his act together...highly unlikely, but you would think they remember what happened with Cris Carter.

They probably want him out of the Conference.

[Redskin4Life]

I believe in Karma and HONESTLY believe it came to fruition in the destruction of the Eagles. But I also believe that TO would excel on a team with a proven VET QB and a VET coach that can handle him. Only three teams really come to mind: the Skins, the Girls and the Pack.

I think Coach Gibbs and Brunell can handle TO for a season or two to help build the character he wants to have in the NFL.. that he's a good boy.

Plus he'll get the chance to show the whole NFL that he can singlehandedly make a mediocre team great. And help to hide all the deficiencies on D by helping the O get better.

I really like TO on this team only cause he'll be on his best behavior and we would be able to give him enough money to be satisfied (we seem to ALWAYS have cap space).

Let's bring TO here and win the East with a 6 game win streak...

[CarMike]

And it's not like they have a lot to begin with.
Why do you say that B&G? I'm pretty happy with the FO during the past 2 or 3 years.

[BurgundyNGold]

Why do you say that B&G? I'm pretty happy with the FO during the past 2 or 3 years.
I'm not happy with their efforts previous to that and the jury is still out on what has happened the last 2 to 3 years as well. Our giving away of draft picks disturbs me greatly and the piss poor job of drafting that we've done with the picks we do get concerns me even more. I am NOT impressed with the FO to this point and believe that they have been the achilles heel of the organization.

[helimech24]

I think we are a couple of players away from being a real force B&G. We need a legitamite #2 WR, a pass rusher and a big body as a DT. The rest of the team is preforming well enough, and Carlos Rogers will be a good CB with time.

[BIGSEF3]

If I'm not mistaken, wouldnt every team ranked worse than the Skins get a shot at T.O. before us? Now the skins are not too good right now, but they are still 5-5, and I imagine there are about 16 taems that would have a shot at him before us. And that goes moreso for the falcons, who are ranked above us. If the Eagles DID cut T.O., he would likely go to the 49ers, Texans, or Packers.

[Skinz4lyfe]

Whatever! Whenever a big named Free Agent is mentioned the Redskins will always be considered "in the running" because of our history. The last few years we've done a decent job staying out of the limelight and I don't think that's gonna change now. I just very seriously doubt the Eagles what cut him in the middle of the season unless they are somehow forced to.

[BurgundyNGold]

I think we are a couple of players away from being a real force B&G. We need a legitamite #2 WR, a pass rusher and a big body as a DT. The rest of the team is preforming well enough, and Carlos Rogers will be a good CB with time.
There are a whole lot of variables in that statement right there. I would venture to guess that at least 24 teams could make the same or similar statement. Yes we need players, that's true. But from my perspective of the talent assembled by our FO, Gibb & Co. are playing with one arm tied behind their back. If we actually kept our draft picks and then actually made decent draft picks, we would already be that 8-2 team. IMO, Gibbs & Co. have been overacheiving all year with the talent that we don't have.

[BIGSEF3]

I believe in Karma and HONESTLY believe it came to fruition in the destruction of the Eagles. But I also believe that TO would excel on a team with a proven VET QB and a VET coach that can handle him. Only three teams really come to mind: the Skins, the Girls and the Pack.

I think Coach Gibbs and Brunell can handle TO for a season or two to help build the character he wants to have in the NFL.. that he's a good boy.

Plus he'll get the chance to show the whole NFL that he can singlehandedly make a mediocre team great. And help to hide all the deficiencies on D by helping the O get better.

I really like TO on this team only cause he'll be on his best behavior and we would be able to give him enough money to be satisfied (we seem to ALWAYS have cap space).

Let's bring TO here and win the East with a 6 game win streak...

Uhh, on what planet do you live on where you don't feel Andy Reid and Donovan McNabb aren't veterans? If there's any coach in the NFL who had what it takes to make a man out of T.O., it was Andy Reid. He has a low tolerance for the crap that T.O. likes to pull, Just like Joe Gibbs. Any arguments saying Brunell and Gibbs (who have both only been with this franchise for 2 years), could do better than McNabb and Reid (who have been with thier franchise 5+ years) is absolutely rediculous. Joe Gibbs is a great coach, and if we somehow got T.O. here, it would only be because Rich Parsons, Jimmy Farris, Chris Cooley, Taylor Jacobs and Santana Moss were all injured, and hell froze over, cows jumped over the moon, and the fat lady sang a song backwards, standing on her head, while balancing on a pole between 2 hot air balloons at 10,000 feet. It's not going to happen.

[greatest2]

gibbs always talks about bringin' the "right kind of people in here", i hardly think TO is that guy.

With so many personal problems on defense (DE, MLB sorta,) will we have the cap to sign him to a deal, even if it is just a so so deal for a guy of his talents.

Wouldn't he be upset with the conservative call of gibbs in crucial situations sometimes

Is it just me, or would our washington media (second only to NEw York) come up with so much speculation when he is on the team about fights, arguments, not going full speed that it would drive gibbs crazy.

Lastly, a nd probably most importantly, we see this team as hangin' together, the defense really does try there best we just lack some crucial personal. I see them off TV, at FEdEx when they huddled before oaklands first series (they got a pick and returned it if you remember). The offense fights hard the whole game....

I just think TO would kill our attitude and that will show on sunday's when guys are a little down durin' the game. TO has proven that nobody can tame him, he had a QB he wanted and he went crazy, what do you think he will do with mark B, who almost everyone in the world wanted to get out of here last year

[helimech24]

There are a whole lot of variables in that statement right there. I would venture to guess that at least 24 teams could make the same or similar statement. Yes we need players, that's true. But from my perspective of the talent assembled by our FO, Gibb & Co. are playing with one arm tied behind their back. If we actually kept our draft picks and then actually made decent draft picks, we would already be that 8-2 team. IMO, Gibbs & Co. have been overacheiving all year with the talent that we don't have.

I don't think we are over or under-achieving. I think we are playing the way we are capable of playing. We don't have a solid d-line, offensive line isn't as good as it should be. Portis is running well, but Gibbs is worried about hurting him, and pulls him out too early and to often. Walt Harris isn't a great CB and it shows, and Carlos is still learning. Patten never got on track and is now out for the year. And Brunell is starting wear down.

We are exactly were I think we should be with the players we have.

[whistleandthumb]

Oh yeah, they will cut him in the offseason, but he isn't leaving that team until then. Imagine the criticism they would get if they cut him, only to see him end up in an NFC east team.
Akh is right... there is NO WAY the Iggles are dumb enough to cut this guy, only to allow him to come to a division rival.

Now, if we could get him for just these last 6 games... kind of makes you wonder if we could make a run at it, doesn't it?

[Meatsnack]

I don't think that the Eagles and TO will part ways until end of year. There is no way we acquire him in the offseason unless Gibbs has an aneurysm that deprives his brain of oxygen. He got rid of a relatively benign (by comparison) lockerroom cancer in LC Toe. Why would he take on a malignant mass like TO?

In any case, how would he fit into our team? Does he come in and supplant Moss, who has done everything the right way and is paid like a #1? TO cannot settle to be the #2 on his team much less the #2 receiver. Who do we have on our team with the stature in DC that McNabb has in Philly? And yet, he did everythign but try to sleep with McNabb's wife. No TO, No time, No How, No way.

[BurgundyNGold]

Akh is right... there is NO WAY the Iggles are dumb enough to cut this guy, only to allow him to come to a division rival.

Now, if we could get him for just these last 6 games... kind of makes you wonder if we could make a run at it, doesn't it?
Not really, because TO doesn't play DL.

[golongdude]

I believe in Karma and HONESTLY believe it came to fruition in the destruction of the Eagles. But I also believe that TO would excel on a team with a proven VET QB and a VET coach that can handle him. <snip>

Crackpipe talking here or what? McNabb not a proven vet qb for you? Reid is obviously vet enough if he has gotten the Eagles to be so dominant over the last half-decade.

TO has reached his zenith. It's all downhill and TO wouldn't save the Skins anyhow. They have many more problems than one player can solve.

[whistleandthumb]

Not really, because TO doesn't play DL.
Man, ain't THAT the sad truth. I wonder if we could frame Jevon Kearse, so the Iggles would dump him, too...

[BurgundyNGold]

Man, ain't THAT the sad truth. I wonder if we could frame Jevon Kearse, so the Iggles would dump him, too...
I heard that Jevon Kearse was questioning McNabb's sexual preference, lol. He just said that he had never seen him with a girl. Not once. He was just wondering what that meant. :D

[HAWGZHEAD]

I think if TO were to come here (which is not gonna happen) he would play his butt off in trying to get us to the Super Bowl. Not because he want to help us or hurt the Eagles so much as to up his value in FA. If he could take us to the big one he could say that he has done that for 2 teams now and would hold that over the head of whoever is trying to buy him in the furture.

Hows that for half-baked?:wacky:

[hail2skins]

Uhh, on what planet do you live on where you don't feel Andy Reid and Donovan McNabb aren't veterans? If there's any coach in the NFL who had what it takes to make a man out of T.O., it was Andy Reid. He has a low tolerance for the crap that T.O. likes to pull, Just like Joe Gibbs. Any arguments saying Brunell and Gibbs (who have both only been with this franchise for 2 years), could do better than McNabb and Reid (who have been with thier franchise 5+ years) is absolutely rediculous. Joe Gibbs is a great coach, and if we somehow got T.O. here, it would only be because Rich Parsons, Jimmy Farris, Chris Cooley, Taylor Jacobs and Santana Moss were all injured, and hell froze over, cows jumped over the moon, and the fat lady sang a song backwards, standing on her head, while balancing on a pole between 2 hot air balloons at 10,000 feet. It's not going to happen.Seeing you call someone else's comment ridiculous is ridiculous in itself.

[whistleandthumb]

I heard that Jevon Kearse was questioning McNabb's sexual preference, lol. He just said that he had never seen him with a girl. Not once. He was just wondering what that meant. :D
Well, ya know, if it LOOKS like a rat, and it SMELLS like a rat...

[lakeskin]

Seeing you call someone else's comment ridiculous is ridiculous in itself.

Comparing Andy Reid to Joe Gibbs is whats ridiculous. Gibbs is known for coaching players with questionable pasts and getting the most out of their abilities. Andy Reid is known for cutting bait and losing high pressure games.

Joe's greatness in dealing with players is he doesnt treat everyone the same way. He knows who to yell at and who not to. Perfect example is the story of Jumpy Geathers.

This is obviously pure speculation but under Gibbs the TO situation would have never gotten to this point. Gibbs would have known exactly how to deal with an ultrasensitive guy like that. Im not saying it would always be roses, but I am saying it would never get to a point that it would cause harm to the team. If Joe wants TO here Im all for it because I know he can coach him.

[The Skinsinator]

Like him or not, TO and Santana Moss would be an unbelievable duo and I wouldn't totally dismiss the notion of attaining him. As already stated however, I think it'd be a longshot and don't expect it. I will trust in Gibbs. For all those thinking this idea is insane, Gibbs has dealt with troubled players before and is highly competitive. He's not here for his health, that's for sure.

[RedskinRyan]

the only TO gibbs wants is more at the end of the raiders game to stop the clock. say no to TO.

[silverspring]

It just shocks me that fans would even consider trying to "buy" a superbowl run with players like TO. Twice now he has gone awol and caused a team to self destruct from within.

Have we lowered our standards that much? Is winning so important that we will throw out what little classiness we have left?
It doesn't suprise me so much that owners or coaches drool at his talent and pull the trigger, but fans? Maybe on your madden team but other than that how can you be serious.

[BIGSEF3]

Seeing you call someone else's comment ridiculous is ridiculous in itself.
I have decided that the day you actually reply, agree, or offer a counter-argument to something I say will be the day Terrell Owens plays for the Redskins AND wears Art Monk's old jersey number. Let's both hope T.O. stays far away from here! I would really miss the amusing personal jabs!

[skinfanatic]

For the last 5 games of the season considering our WR situation I would support whatever the front office decided to do. I do believe if your going to get TO now is the time to do so. He would be on his best behavior and hes definitly has the incentive to play hard and not cause trouble. Because of our record I believe we would have first shot at him over the falcons.

good points. interesting, could be true. but he'll be a schmo soon enough. still, we wouldnt go to the SB with or without him anyway. so its prob not a good idea.

[syphy]

I'm not happy with their efforts previous to that and the jury is still out on what has happened the last 2 to 3 years as well. Our giving away of draft picks disturbs me greatly and the piss poor job of drafting that we've done with the picks we do get concerns me even more. I am NOT impressed with the FO to this point and believe that they have been the achilles heel of the organization.

Have to agree somewhat here. Didn't we end up cutting most of our draft picks this year?

[redskin_rich]

Have to agree somewhat here. Didn't we end up cutting most of our draft picks this year?
Only one, Jerome Newberry, is not here anymore.

[hail2skins]

I have decided that the day you actually reply, agree, or offer a counter-argument to something I say will be the day Terrell Owens plays for the Redskins AND wears Art Monk's old jersey number. Let's both hope T.O. stays far away from here! I would really miss the amusing personal jabs!So you do get the point. That's good. If you actually post something that's worthy of a counter-argument, I'll do it. The question is can you come up with something.

[whitskins]

Have to agree somewhat here. Didn't we end up cutting most of our draft picks this year?

Not really, we cut LB Newberry from the 6th round but only because we kept UFA Keasey instead, so that is basically a wash. McCune was put on the practice squad and I believe is on the active roster now. Keasey was demoted to practice squad as well. Manuel Wright got hurt and is on IR.

So we only actually cut one guy, but we're not getting much production at all from our rookies outside of Rogers. I would have loved to have drafted Chris Canty... Oh well, hopefully there's someone like him in the 3rd-4th rounds this year.

[skins111111]

no no no no no no NO TO

[Syllable]

You all know that T.O is gonna prove everyone wrong and act Proffesionall on his next team, whether he keeps rosenhaus or not, he is a man of pride and its gonna suck to get clocked by a skins player.
We can pick him up and demote him to safety beside taylor, the dude has speed and catch and looks like he can hit pretty well. Maybe he can take out his roid rage on offensive people.

[skinsfan811]

You all know that T.O is gonna prove everyone wrong and act Proffesionall on his next team

:lol3:

OMG...I understand what you're saying, but when I heard those words...:lol3: !!!!!!

[BIGSEF3]

So you do get the point. That's good. If you actually post something that's worthy of a counter-argument, I'll do it. The question is can you come up with something.

Oh there are tons, you just avoid most of them. Even this one, I feel I made a valid point reguarding McNabb and Reid not being able to control Owens. They are the enemy yes, but Reid is a good coach, and Donovan has, atleast publically, handled his entire career with about as much class as any NFL QB in recent memory. Yet I feel if they couldnt control TO, why should any other team in the NFL think that they could? TO is a spoiled child, and he can't act like an adult in a world of adults. I feel you could agree or disagree with that statement, but you evidently feel that statement isn't worthy of a courterargument or agreement. You understand my point, but all youre concerned with is that it is me who is saying it and coming up with a smart remark. But its your site, you do what you want. I'm not criticizing you, I just find it amusing.

[skinsfan811]

I hope TO doesn't end up on our team...that would stink!!

[ryflan47]

Wow. That would be a very interesting situation.
He may be a cancer, but cancer doesn't kill right away. If we use him for a playoff push, and then dump him after the year that could work. He's just so deadly on the field.

[bgforever]

that would never work - Gibbs having it out with TO on the sideline and MB, or PR or even JC to boot? No way. Next!

[BurgundyNGold]

Not really, we cut LB Newberry from the 6th round but only because we kept UFA Keasey instead, so that is basically a wash.
Until we cut Keasy.

McCune was put on the practice squad and I believe is on the active roster now. Keasey was demoted to practice squad as well. Manuel Wright got hurt and is on IR.
We'll see how long [White] hangs around. He was the invisibile man all the way through camp.

So we only actually cut one guy, but we're not getting much production at all from our rookies outside of Rogers. I would have loved to have drafted Chris Canty... Oh well, hopefully there's someone like him in the 3rd-4th rounds this year.
Agreed in full.

[BurgundyNGold]

Wow. That would be a very interesting situation.
He may be a cancer, but cancer doesn't kill right away. If we use him for a playoff push, and then dump him after the year that could work. He's just so deadly on the field.
This is the EXACT same logic that has Andy Reid popping Crestor like pez right now.

[redwolf1218]

it's Manuel White, not Wright, and he's on IR. other than that we have Rogers who has played sparingly, Campbell who has not played at all, McCune, nothing, Nemo, again nothing, and that's it. it's time to see what those guys can do. i've seen enough of Rock Cartwright, i'd like to see Nemo. what's he gonna do, fumble more?

no offense intended, i'm just frstrated. it seems no one new can play unless there's a rash of injuries.

[BurgundyNGold]

it's Manuel White, not Wright, and he's on IR. other than that we have Rogers who has played sparingly, Campbell who has not played at all, McCune, nothing, Nemo, again nothing, and that's it. it's time to see what those guys can do. i've seen enough of Rock Cartwright, i'd like to see Nemo. what's he gonna do, fumble more?

no offense intended, i'm just frstrated. it seems no one new can play unless there's a rash of injuries.
White, Wright, whatever. We shouldn't have reached for him and he's about 18 months from working at Best Buy.

EDIT: No offense, I'm frustrated too. ;)

[akhhorus]

White, Wright, whatever. We shouldn't have reached for him and he's about 18 months from working at Best Buy.

EDIT: No offense, I'm frustrated too. ;)

I know you wanted Chris Canty, and he was a big, fast DE. But in all fairness, he was coming off a major knee injury(and other major injuries earlier in his college career I believe) and he's hasn't exactly lit up the NFL when he actually does play. He has 1.5 sacks, but whenever I've seen him in, he's getting blocked out of the play. I completely agree that the Skins could have used a DE, and the Manuel White pick is unknown because he's been injured all year, but I give Gibbs the benefit of the doubt.

[BurgundyNGold]

I know you wanted Chris Canty, and he was a big, fast DE. But in all fairness, he was coming off a major knee injury(and other major injuries earlier in his college career I believe) and he's hasn't exactly lit up the NFL when he actually does play. He has 1.5 sacks, but whenever I've seen him in, he's getting blocked out of the play. I completely agree that the Skins could have used a DE, and the Manuel White pick is unknown because he's been injured all year, but I give Gibbs the benefit of the doubt.
By most accounts, Canty had 1st round talent before his knee injury knocked him down to the 4th. If a 1st round talent at a critical need position is there in the 4th, you take him. What you don't do is reach for a non-need position who not only wasn't going to be able to help you this year, but would also in all likelihood be available in the 6th, where we picked another LB (also not a super need position) who we later cut.

Canty is a rookie playing with Ellis, Ware and Spears. On this team, he would get plenty of playing time and I would suspect that his 1.5 sack total would be higher.

As for giving Gibbs the benefit of the doubt, he's used that card up on the Campbell trade up and pick. Sorry, only one per draft year. :D

[redwolf1218]

White, Wright, whatever. We shouldn't have reached for him and he's about 18 months from working at Best Buy.

EDIT: No offense, I'm frustrated too. ;)
i saw where on several draft polls he was the number 1 rated fullback, so i'm not sure he a reach. him and Nemo both were highly rated on several polls. so if it's like they felt a serious need to grab these top rated backs, how come we dont get to see them play? instead we get Cartwright.

[BurgundyNGold]

i saw where on several draft polls he was the number 1 rated fullback, so i'm not sure he a reach. him and Nemo both were highly rated on weveral polls. so if it's like they felt a serious need to grab these top rated backs, how come we dont get to see them play? instead we get Cartwright.
The top 2 FBs might get drafted. Maybe not. It's a low prioirity position that most folks feel that they can fill through FA. Except for when a Mike Alstott is there, I tend to agree.

[ryflan47]

This is the EXACT same logic that has Andy Reid popping Crestor like pez right now.
No, but just for the rest of this year, so the rest of us don't have to pop Crestor like pez. :D

[akhhorus]

By most accounts, Canty had 1st round talent before his knee injury knocked him down to the 4th. If a 1st round talent at a critical need position is there in the 4th, you take him. What you don't do is reach for a non-need position who not only wasn't going to be able to help you this year, but would also in all likelihood be available in the 6th, where we picked another LB (also not a super need position) who we later cut.

Kevin Burnett had a far worse injury later in the season than Canty, and he dropped only 1 round(really about 20 picks). Canty has physical ability, but obviously there were other concerns about him that dropped him further down. White would have had Sellers' job this, on top of being perhaps the short yardage back. We don't know how he will turn out, so lets wait. As for the LBs, a good point, but I didn't see any DEs in that part of the draft that looked any good at the time(we could have used other things for sure) or now.

Canty is a rookie playing with Ellis, Ware and Spears. On this team, he would get plenty of playing time and I would suspect that his 1.5 sack total would be higher.

Canty has more tackles and sacks than Spears, Ware has been so-so(4 sacks, nothing special), but is playing at LB(where Canty can't play) and Canty is Ellis' backup. Chris Clemons plays as much as Canty does(probably less) and he's having a better year.

As for giving Gibbs the benefit of the doubt, he's used that card up on the Campbell trade up and pick. Sorry, only one per draft year. :D

Gibbs has much more credit in the bank with me. He's done a good job recovering this team from the Dark Lord Spurrier and has added good players up and down the roster.

[akhhorus]

i saw where on several draft polls he was the number 1 rated fullback, so i'm not sure he a reach. him and Nemo both were highly rated on several polls. so if it's like they felt a serious need to grab these top rated backs, how come we dont get to see them play? instead we get Cartwright.

White was also RB in college, so he would have played many roles for the Skins, not just H-B/FB/TE.

[redwolf1218]

White was also RB in college, so he would have played many roles for the Skins, not just H-B/FB/TE.
he was taken to play hback, at least that's what Gibbs said. he was the #1 rated fullback in many polls. i believe he'll be good. there was some mention of him as a short yardage back, also something about him being a great blocker in pass protection.

[BurgundyNGold]

Kevin Burnett had a far worse injury later in the season than Canty, and he dropped only 1 round(really about 20 picks). Canty has physical ability, but obviously there were other concerns about him that dropped him further down. White would have had Sellers' job this, on top of being perhaps the short yardage back. We don't know how he will turn out, so lets wait. As for the LBs, a good point, but I didn't see any DEs in that part of the draft that looked any good at the time(we could have used other things for sure) or now.
We'll compare notes on White after TC next year then.

Canty has more tackles and sacks than Spears, Ware has been so-so(4 sacks, nothing special), but is playing at LB(where Canty can't play) and Canty is Ellis' backup. Chris Clemons plays as much as Canty does(probably less) and he's having a better year.
For me, it wouldn't be an either/or scenario. Since Clemons is a LB, he could be on the field with Canty while that stump Daniels could be the team ambassador for all I care.

Gibbs has much more credit in the bank with me. He's done a good job recovering this team from the Dark Lord Spurrier and has added good players up and down the roster.
Coaching, character and scheme? Absolutely. Team building? You betcha. Serving as primary draft talent evaluator? For me, not so much. Gibbs 1.0 had Beathard and when he left, the team of Gibbs and Casserly (with Gibbs on top) saw the ship take on lots of water in just a few years.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on Rogers and Campbell, but that's as far as I go this year. That first round last was a doozy.

[akhhorus]

We'll compare notes on White after TC next year then.

Gladly.


For me, it wouldn't be an either/or scenario. Since Clemons is a LB, he could be on the field with Canty while that stump Daniels could be the team ambassador for all I care.

But Clemons has gotten his sacks playing DE. He got Collins as a 3-4 DE. Both him as his brother should be playing more.

Coaching, character and scheme? Absolutely. Team building? You betcha. Serving as primary draft talent evaluator? For me, not so much. Gibbs 1.0 had Beathard and when he left, the team of Gibbs and Casserly (with Gibbs on top) saw the ship take on lots of water in just a few years.

Gibbs and his lapboy Casserly picked over half of the 91 title team. And he's added a whole hell of a lot of talent since he came back. Taylor, Washington, Springs, Griffin, Sala'vea, Rabach, Cooley, Portis, Moss, and Brunell(still on pace for 3300 yards). And Rogers shows promise when he's in. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

[akhhorus]

he was taken to play hback, at least that's what Gibbs said. he was the #1 rated fullback in many polls. i believe he'll be good. there was some mention of him as a short yardage back, also something about him being a great blocker in pass protection.

6-3, 245-250 and ran a 4.6 40. Had 164 carries for over 700 yards his senior season. He has talent.

[BurgundyNGold]

But Clemons has gotten his sacks playing DE. He got Collins as a 3-4 DE. Both him as his brother should be playing more.
Great. Put Clemons on the left and anty on the right. Right now we have no Canty.

Gibbs and his lapboy Casserly picked over half of the 91 title team. And he's added a whole hell of a lot of talent since he came back. Taylor, Washington, Springs, Griffin, Sala'vea, Rabach, Cooley, Portis, Moss, and Brunell(still on pace for 3300 yards). And Rogers shows promise when he's in. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
The old and aging veterans willed that '91 team to the title. Plus, Beathard got a lot of talent in a final flurry just as he was leaving. Lachey, Geathers, Thielmann, Riggs, Byner. All of those guys were key. Drafting? Not so much. Maybe Andre Collins, but that's about it. Desmond Howard and Bobby Wilson alone were huge busts.

[skins74]

no Thanks!!!!!!!!!

[akhhorus]

Great. Put Clemons on the left and anty on the right. Right now we have no Canty.

Well, whining about him isn't going to bring him mysteriously on the skins roster. Both Clemons should be playing at DE more. They have speed and make plays.

The old and aging veterans willed that '91 team to the title. Plus, Beathard got a lot of talent in a final flurry just as he was leaving. Lachey, Geathers, Thielmann, Riggs, Byner. All of those guys were key. Drafting? Not so much. Maybe Andre Collins, but that's about it. Desmond Howard and Bobby Wilson alone were huge busts.

The Skins drafting record with Beathard wasn't great. He was great at finding castoffs who fit. So was Gibbs/Casserly. Look at the Skins' drafting record from 1982-1992.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/teams/WAS
They go whole drafts without players of any stature.

And the roster of the 1991 team, I went through this in an older thread, but Gibbs/Casserly picked over 50% of the starters and over 55% of the total roster.

[BurgundyNGold]

Well, whining about him isn't going to bring him mysteriously on the skins roster. Both Clemons should be playing at DE more. They have speed and make plays.
I brought up Canty (DE) and you mentioned Chris Clemons (LB). I basically said that it's not a one or the other choice. That's not whining. Believe me, I would absolutely love for Manuel White to make me forget all about that drafting decision. If he doesn't though, we have to call that out for what it is too. At this point however, it is intensely painful to watch the substantial lack of pressure put forth by our front 4.

The Skins drafting record with Beathard wasn't great. He was great at finding castoffs who fit. So was Gibbs/Casserly. Look at the Skins' drafting record from 1982-1992.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/teams/WAS
They go whole drafts without players of any stature.

And the roster of the 1991 team, I went through this in an older thread, but Gibbs/Casserly picked over 50% of the starters and over 55% of the total roster.
As I said, the veterans willed us to the title in 1991. By 1993, they were largely gone or over the hill, which left us with Casserly and Gibbs' players and there was very little debate that at that time, the talent on the roster was not what is was under Beathard. Part of that is the salary cap, of course, but part of it was bad talent evaluation.

[X-Factor13]

honestly i don't mind having him for the rest of this year and then cutting him after the season. You know, just cutting him before we become the next team to get disbanded

[hail2skins]

Oh there are tons, you just avoid most of them. Even this one, I feel I made a valid point reguarding McNabb and Reid not being able to control Owens. They are the enemy yes, but Reid is a good coach, and Donovan has, atleast publically, handled his entire career with about as much class as any NFL QB in recent memory. Yet I feel if they couldnt control TO, why should any other team in the NFL think that they could? TO is a spoiled child, and he can't act like an adult in a world of adults. I feel you could agree or disagree with that statement, but you evidently feel that statement isn't worthy of a courterargument or agreement. You understand my point, but all youre concerned with is that it is me who is saying it and coming up with a smart remark. But its your site, you do what you want. I'm not criticizing you, I just find it amusing.You're absolutely correct about that and you and only you made it that way. I didn't forget you have a soft spot for the Eagles. Maybe one day I'll come to believe that you are somewhat of a Redskins fan but that day isn't today. (If you wish too continue this conversation with me, use a PM)

To address your point, it's not about how long a coach and QB has been with their respective team with respect to coaching a player. Both Gibbs and Brunell have more experience than Reid and McNabb. Just because Gibbs has been away from football doesn't mean he can't do it. Gibbs has succeeded in two totally different sports, that's two and it's because he knows how to deal with people various backgrounds. Basically, the Eagles tried to buy a Superbowl by bringing in TO but it failed. Can some other team handle TO, probably. It's the team that's willing to give him what he wants and there's probably a team out there that will do it.

[BigCountry]

You're absolutely correct about that and you and only you made it that way. I didn't forget you have a soft spot for the Eagles. Maybe one day I'll come to believe that you are somewhat of a Redskins fan but that day isn't today. (If you wish too continue this conversation with me, use a PM)

To address your point, it's not about how long a coach and QB has been with their respective team with respect to coaching a player. Both Gibbs and Brunell have more experience than Reid and McNabb. Just because Gibbs has been away from football doesn't mean he can't do it. Gibbs has succeeded in two totally different sports, that's two and it's because he knows how to deal with people various backgrounds. Basically, the Eagles tried to buy a Superbowl by bringing in TO but it failed. Can some other team handle TO, probably. It's the team that's willing to give him what he wants and there's probably a team out there that will do it.

The biggest differance is that Mr. Experience took a chance on T.O while Gibbs probably wouldn't have gone anywhere near him. More subtle then the obvious 3 superbowl rings to zero differance but still worth mentioning.

[BIGSEF3]

To address your point, it's not about how long a coach and QB has been with their respective team with respect to coaching a player. Both Gibbs and Brunell have more experience than Reid and McNabb. Just because Gibbs has been away from football doesn't mean he can't do it. Gibbs has succeeded in two totally different sports, that's two and it's because he knows how to deal with people various backgrounds. Basically, the Eagles tried to buy a Superbowl by bringing in TO but it failed. Can some other team handle TO, probably. It's the team that's willing to give him what he wants and there's probably a team out there that will do it.

I love Gibbs, but I don't think ANYONE can keep TO in check if TO doesn't want to be kept in check. It's not that T.O. is just some egomaniac whos antics get out of hand sometimes. His is a selfish child whose antics are deliberately designed to hurt his team, when things aren't going exactly as he wants them. Gibbs, like Reid, could easily handle T.O. when he gets in an ingame spat with words with his quarterback. That sort of thing is going to happen. But No coach, no matter how great, can handle a player who's primary concern is not his team, his fans, or even the game itself. T.O.'s only concern is money. You are right, some team WILL take a gamble on him. He's too talented for them not to. But at some point down the road, these problems are going to return. My only regret (although this may be unsportsmanlike) is that we couldnt capitalize on all the drama going on with T.O. and the Eagles this season and have a good year to win the division. If this year is any indication, the NFC-East won't be any easier next year.

[Redskinfan28]

Per TK show - TO's suspension will be reduced to 2 games and he will be cut and on another team this year. I hate him but i wouldn't mind seeing us rent him for the rest of the season.

[smoak]

I would love for the Packers to get TO in time for the game this weekend.

:D

[Redskinfan28]

I would love for the Packers to get TO in time for the game this weekend.

:D

he needs to clear waivers - hello houston!!!!!

[Stinkfist0]

For the rest of this year you have nothing to lose. Is he going to disrupt the .500 chemistry we have going? Oh well.

This team will NOT make the playoffs as is. I just can't see it happening. But if TO were to come on board and learn the offense quickly, he could make enough of a difference to push them over the top. His being on the field would instantly make Moss, Brunell, and Portis better. For all his attitude problems, no one can dispute that Owens can flat out play football. In fact, he probably plays WR as well as if not better than anyone else out there right now. His strength and skill on crossing routes and the like would compliment the speed game of Moss perfectly.

The only argument I hear against signing him is that he will disrupt team chemistry/character. In that light, he probably will be a cocky jerk. However, would Redskins fans rather us stay as a middle of the road, non-playoff bound team? If we don't consider taking a chance on TO, we can all sit around and talk about our character and integrity all through January, since we won't be playing in the postseason we'll need to pass the time somehow.

[redskin_rich]

For the rest of this year you have nothing to lose. Is he going to disrupt the .500 chemistry we have going? Oh well.

This team will NOT make the playoffs as is. I just can't see it happening. But if TO were to come on board and learn the offense quickly, he could make enough of a difference to push them over the top. His being on the field would instantly make Moss, Brunell, and Portis better. For all his attitude problems, no one can dispute that Owens can flat out play football. In fact, he probably plays WR as well as if not better than anyone else out there right now. His strength and skill on crossing routes and the like would compliment the speed game of Moss perfectly.

The only argument I hear against signing him is that he will disrupt team chemistry/character. In that light, he probably will be a cocky jerk. However, would Redskins fans rather us stay as a middle of the road, non-playoff bound team? If we don't consider taking a chance on TO, we can all sit around and talk about our character and integrity all through January, since we won't be playing in the postseason we'll need to pass the time somehow.

I don't think we have the cap room to absorb his remaining salary if we claimed him off waivers. By my estimation, there are only 7 or 8 teams that can. My bet is, TO clears waivers and becomes a FA, then Dallass snags him.

[Redskin4Life]

Uhh, on what planet do you live on where you don't feel Andy Reid and Donovan McNabb aren't veterans? If there's any coach in the NFL who had what it takes to make a man out of T.O., it was Andy Reid. He has a low tolerance for the crap that T.O. likes to pull, Just like Joe Gibbs. Any arguments saying Brunell and Gibbs (who have both only been with this franchise for 2 years), could do better than McNabb and Reid (who have been with thier franchise 5+ years) is absolutely rediculous. Joe Gibbs is a great coach, and if we somehow got T.O. here, it would only be because Rich Parsons, Jimmy Farris, Chris Cooley, Taylor Jacobs and Santana Moss were all injured, and hell froze over, cows jumped over the moon, and the fat lady sang a song backwards, standing on her head, while balancing on a pole between 2 hot air balloons at 10,000 feet. It's not going to happen.
So explain to me how Dallas is a better fit??? They have a coach and a QB with JUST AS MUCH EXPERIENC IN THE GAME as our players!??!? But the media LOVES the idea of the marriage of TO to that team?!?!?

In all seriousness, Reid has had ONE head coaching job. It's in Philly. He's never dealt with players like TO before. And if a player makes GESTURES to POSSIBLY being a problem, he's ousted from the team (see Trotter, Simon, others).

Donovan, I'm sorry fans, isn't a great QB and still is on shaky grounds with the team... I'm not talking about with Andy Reid or the media, I'm talking about reality. And the facts are Donovan is no more than a 50% completion percentage thrower. With TO, he stats went up last year but only when TO had to make some CRAZY @SS catch. Look at all the games HE lost this year alone on poor to bad decisions. And this isn't a one year thing... HE ALWAYS has games like this. He can't play under pressure (see the throw up in Jacksonville -- against Jax three years ago and against NE last year). He's never brought his team back for a win if the opponent's offense SCORES -- not up by -- 24 points.

He's just not getting it done.... but for some reason or another, there's a love fest for him. How about the fact that he doesn't win games... he manages them. Their D wins games... maybe not this year.. but the past 5 they have.

The D puts the Eagles in good positions to win but no one wants to talk about that... all the glory to the QB, all the blame on the coach or D or ST. Now all the blame on TO... a WR.

[Redskin4Life]

Crackpipe talking here or what? McNabb not a proven vet qb for you? Reid is obviously vet enough if he has gotten the Eagles to be so dominant over the last half-decade.

TO has reached his zenith. It's all downhill and TO wouldn't save the Skins anyhow. They have many more problems than one player can solve.
Honestly, no he's not... he's had all the tools that all the great QBs have had and then some. He just can't do it. You can't tell me that the Eagles the past 4 years aren't a more well-rounded, better team than all the ones they lost to in all those Championship games??? You can't seriously tell me that those teams aren't better than the Bills teams that MADE it to the Super Bowl, only to lose??? That's crackpipe talk...

TO would fix the WR problem that we have... which would fix our offensive woes. Which would in turn put LESS pressure on the D and more on the opponents' O.

[redskn65]

uhmmm...let me see ....we know have Santana Moss and who? Yes thats 3 other receivers we have that are healthy and none of them really have any NFL game. Maybe for you so- called fans that have already thrown in the towel for this season you don`t want TO because you already feel that this season is over. I know this we still have 3 divisional games left 2 at home and we play the weak Rams and Cardinals coming up soon. We are not out of this and I for one would love to see us pick him up and give him a chance to put us over the top. Sure we still need some Defensive ends and some other pieces but I don`t want to sit around and let the Cowboys gain someone and profit win wise with a player we ourselves could have had. Scorch me if you want I don`t care but I do care about our Redskins I am all for any player Coach Gibbs wants to bring in especially one with the talent level of TO. The guy has to have learned something this time and how wold you all feel if he does in fact change and when there was a chance to have him we didn`t? I don`t like his attitude too much but the man can play football and I know none of you can deny this point.

[Redskin4Life]

Not really, we cut LB Newberry from the 6th round but only because we kept UFA Keasey instead, so that is basically a wash. McCune was put on the practice squad and I believe is on the active roster now. Keasey was demoted to practice squad as well. Manuel Wright got hurt and is on IR.

So we only actually cut one guy, but we're not getting much production at all from our rookies outside of Rogers. I would have loved to have drafted Chris Canty... Oh well, hopefully there's someone like him in the 3rd-4th rounds this year.
Actually we didn't cut Newberry to lose him.. we put him on the practice squad and New England signed him away.

[chad101]

What happened to the theme of aquiring Joe Gibb' type players only?

[cnhnyy]

I think Packers would snag him.

[Redskin4Life]

What happened to the theme of aquiring Joe Gibb' type players only?
I can honestly say I wasn't old enough to get to enjoy anymore than ONE Super Bowl under Coach Gibbs but I thought Coach Gibbs was like a Dick Vermeil guy, took chances on guys that he though deserved them -- no matter what their pasts were (Mike Sellers and his drug conviction).

Someone with extensive knowledge on the Glory Years of the Skins back me up on this???

[Redskinfan28]

Actually, Sal Pal just came on ESPN and said that the Arbitrator actually found for the Eagles on all counts. Thus, he will remain on the Eagles roster for the remainder of the season. The Tony K report seems wrong.

[Meatsnack]

`In any event, TO has been in a WCO his whole career. The only teams that could pick him up and use him are teams that run some version of the Walsh/Holmgren WCO. That puts Green Bay, Seattle, Tampa and Atlanta at the top of any list like that. I don't know if any of those teams have any cap room.

[Fathead]

No to TO.



It's official.

[whistleandthumb]

Rich Bloch, Skins season ticket holder, came through for us. Thank you, Rich.

[BurgundyNGold]

Actually, Sal Pal just came on ESPN and said that the Arbitrator actually found for the Eagles on all counts. Thus, he will remain on the Eagles roster for the remainder of the season. The Tony K report seems wrong.
Tony K not knowing what he's talking about? Surely, you jest. ;)

[skinfan43]

Tony K not knowing what he's talking about? Surely, you jest. ;)
Hey BNG, you healin' ok? Be ready in time for the playoffs?;)

[BurgundyNGold]

Hey BNG, you healin' ok? Be ready in time for the playoffs?;)
I should be. I'm working on being back for the Cardinals game. In the meantime, here's an America's Most Wanted artist's rendition of my current state:

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/9034/jimmysouthpark0ii.png

[BIGSEF3]

I'm on the badwagon now that we should go after T.O. Defenses cant double/triple team Moss AND T.O. and they HAVE to double team T.O. Moss can get 100+yards/game when he's single-covered. a Moss/T.O. combination would be lethal.

What caused this change of heart, aside from the painfully obvious fact that our offense NEEDS another GOOD WR? This article on the post.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/26/AR2005112600135.html

[hail2skins]

I'm on the badwagon now that we should go after T.O. Defenses cant double/triple team Moss AND T.O. and they HAVE to double team T.O. Moss can get 100+yards/game when he's single-covered. a Moss/T.O. combination would be lethal.

What caused this change of heart, aside from the painfully obvious fact that our offense NEEDS another GOOD WR? This article on the post.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/26/AR2005112600135.htmlEnjoy your ride. Dallas has already tampered with him according to the Eagles.

[MWballer]

I dont want TO we need a long term solution not a short term one. Moss is young why not pick up a young complementary reciever to go by his side like Reggie Wayne or draft one. Then we'd be set at WR for years to come.

[joethefan]

TO would be kinda Sexy....but what about Charles Rodgers.....he might be hungry and still young....I think he could work.

[silverspring]

I'm on the badwagon now that we should go after T.O. Defenses cant double/triple team Moss AND T.O. and they HAVE to double team T.O. Moss can get 100+yards/game when he's single-covered. a Moss/T.O. combination would be lethal.

What caused this change of heart, aside from the painfully obvious fact that our offense NEEDS another GOOD WR? This article on the post.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/26/AR2005112600135.html

Do you think things through before you post them? You think people really want to read this ridiuclous statement after we just had a crushing loss like this.

Lets see we have to win out to make playoffs which is nearly impossible with or without TO or whatever superstar you can offer. Our team is completely demoralized at this point, i guarantee our lockerroom attitude is not good. We are on the second year of gibbs return, the first was utter disaster that showed a glimmer of hope at the end, and the second was good at the beginning and is now turning into utter disaster that is our team which is unraveling before our eyes. This team is going to be hanging on to a winning attitude by a thread and you want to throw TO in the mix and see how that goes? You think the message of we need TO to win will really support Gibb's core redskin attitude he is trying to spread?

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I don't want T.O. anywhere near our team..he didn't win a SB for the Eagles who have dominated the NFC for the past few years, I don't see how he could win one for us..and a guy like TO is worth picking up only if you are pretty much guaranteed to win...he is a total cancer for the team...

[HAWGZHEAD]

I should be. I'm working on being back for the Cardinals game. In the meantime, here's an America's Most Wanted artist's rendition of my current state:

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/9034/jimmysouthpark0ii.png


LMAO, you're not looking too good there BnG...

[CamLwalk]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrell_Owens

Just reading through the 'rap sheet' it occurs to me....I'd rather the Skins lose than put up with this idiot.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrell_Owens

Just reading through the 'rap sheet' it occurs to me....I'd rather the Skins lose than put up with this idiot.
I completely agree.

[CNYSkinFan]

I'm on the badwagon now that we should go after T.O. Defenses cant double/triple team Moss AND T.O. and they HAVE to double team T.O. Moss can get 100+yards/game when he's single-covered. a Moss/T.O. combination would be lethal.

What caused this change of heart, aside from the painfully obvious fact that our offense NEEDS another GOOD WR? This article on the post.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/26/AR2005112600135.html

I swear to God this is almost as stupid as the Moss for Lavar thread last summer. For one, now ay we have the cap space for him next year. For two the guy is a Cancer on every team he has been on except for last year's eagles. For three see number two.

I want a big wideout but not TO. Wayne may be available as well as some others. Perhaps trade Ramsey to Detroit for Charles Rogers straight up? That could happen.

If TO is a Redskin I will come to the tailgate in a toga.

[GolfFreak]

I don't think Snyder would put TO on this team unless Gibbs wanted him and that's not going to happen. I would love to have a big time WR to complement Moss, but we can find him elsewhere. I still would've rather drafted Mike Williams instead of Rogers at this point though.

[BIGSEF3]

I dont want TO we need a long term solution not a short term one. Moss is young why not pick up a young complementary reciever to go by his side like Reggie Wayne or draft one. Then we'd be set at WR for years to come.

I would much rather have reggie wayne, but there is no way indy lets him go. I know they have some cap issues, but they will not let this guy go.

[CNYSkinFan]

Enjoy your ride. Dallas has already tampered with him according to the Eagles.

Can you just imagine Keyshawn and TO on the same team? My god. It would be great to watch that team implode from afar.

Not to Philly...do the division a favor, send TO to Dallas!!!!!

[HAWGZHEAD]

. Wayne may be available as well as some others. Perhaps trade Ramsey to Detroit for Charles Rogers straight up? .Both very good sugestions. I would love to see Wayne in Burgundy and Gold. I think he could do alot for us although he will carry a high price tag seeing as he would probably be a number one receiver on alot of teams.

[BIGSEF3]

I swear to God this is almost as stupid as the Moss for Lavar thread last summer. For one, now ay we have the cap space for him next year. For two the guy is a Cancer on every team he has been on except for last year's eagles. For three see number two.

I want a big wideout but not TO. Wayne may be available as well as some others. Perhaps trade Ramsey to Detroit for Charles Rogers straight up? That could happen.

If TO is a Redskin I will come to the tailgate in a toga.

Did you read the article on the post at all?

Aside from the obvious on the field benefits T.O. would bring, it predicted that wherever T.O. lands it wouldnt be for much more than the league minimum. So there would be none of the salary cap problems you mention.
It also made me look at T.O.s future in a different light. T.O. is selfish and only cares about money. The true root cause of Half of his antics is that he wanted more money. He has learned now that his antics will NOT get him more money, and to get more money, he has to be a team player. Especially since now any contract he ever signs will put a huge financial hurt on him if he acts up. If T.O. wants his money, he will have no choice but to behave.

I would rather have T.O. than charles rogers, b/c charles rogers hasnt proven anything over there. In my opinion, he's one notch above Taylor Jacobs. I would LOVE reggie wayne, but there is no way indy gives him up and he would be much more of a salary cap problem than owens.

I understand everyone's reservations about T.O. Until i read that article, I had them myself. I think its worth considering, for the right price. I think a T.O. santana moss combo could be the most lethal duo in the NFL.

[becky]

I'm on the badwagon now that we should go after T.O. Defenses cant double/triple team Moss AND T.O. and they HAVE to double team T.O. Moss can get 100+yards/game when he's single-covered. a Moss/T.O. combination would be lethal.

What caused this change of heart, aside from the painfully obvious fact that our offense NEEDS another GOOD WR? This article on the post.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/26/AR2005112600135.html


Yes, because acquiring a big name superstar would cure all our needs, how many times have we tried that? T.O. is a cancer and if you think his off the field crap is worth his on the field production then you are wrong. I think that has been made very clear. Yes we need a legit #2 WR. But going after the biggest name available isn't always the answer.

[BIGSEF3]

Yes, because acquiring a big name superstar would cure all our needs, how many times have we tried that? T.O. is a cancer and if you think his off the field crap is worth his on the field production then you are wrong. I think that has been made very clear. Yes we need a legit #2 WR. But going after the biggest name available isn't always the answer.

The article addresses the likelyhood T.O.'s cancerous past will continue in the future. Shapiro doesn't think its likely. I don't think so either.

[The Skinsinator]

I think a T.O. santana moss combo could be the most lethal duo in the NFL.I agree. TO hasn't had alot around him and still catapulted offenses unbelievably. On the field alone, TO and S. Moss would be unbelievable. You have an amazingly fast and effective small out along with arguably the best in the league that adds excellent size. It would be sick. We will get some type of new larger receiver in the offseason and Gibbs decision should be interesting.

[hail2skins]

The article addresses the likelyhood T.O.'s cancerous past will continue in the future. Shapiro doesn't think its likely. I don't think so either.So, you'll let one article change your life? TO is much more dangerous off the field than on it.

[redskin_rich]

The article addresses the likelyhood T.O.'s cancerous past will continue in the future. Shapiro doesn't think its likely. I don't think so either.
TO is 32 years old, he ain't changing. If anything, he is only getting worse. Let him destroy some other team. We have done a good job of purging bitter, cancerous players, no need to bring in the mac daddy of all prima-donna's.

[becky]

The article addresses the likelyhood T.O.'s cancerous past will continue in the future. Shapiro doesn't think its likely. I don't think so either.

I bet the Eagles thought the same thing.

[BigCountry]

If Gibbs thought Champ Bailey and Coles (two players who have otherwise never caused a tiny bit of trouble) would effect team chemistry, why would he do anything but laugh histerically over the idea of signing TO?

Are there circumstances that could make the signing beneficial for the Redskins? (one year deal) probably. Is it going to happen? No chance in hell

[Dexter72]

Both very good sugestions. I would love to see Wayne in Burgundy and Gold. I think he could do alot for us although he will carry a high price tag seeing as he would probably be a number one receiver on alot of teams.

There aren't that many wide outs that will be available...Wayne would be a great addition but we'd have to get him away from Indy and he won't come cheap. Charles Rogers is a waste of time; he is a good pickup if you already have 3 good wideouts and can afford the gamble. Another guy who should be on the radar is Kevin Curtis...He's a restricted free agent, but he certainly can stretch the field and make big plays deep -- and he was a teammate of Cooley's at Utah State.

[silverspring]

Did you read the article on the post at all?

Aside from the obvious on the field benefits T.O. would bring, it predicted that wherever T.O. lands it wouldnt be for much more than the league minimum. So there would be none of the salary cap problems you mention.
It also made me look at T.O.s future in a different light. T.O. is selfish and only cares about money. The true root cause of Half of his antics is that he wanted more money. He has learned now that his antics will NOT get him more money, and to get more money, he has to be a team player. Especially since now any contract he ever signs will put a huge financial hurt on him if he acts up. If T.O. wants his money, he will have no choice but to behave.

I would rather have T.O. than charles rogers, b/c charles rogers hasnt proven anything over there. In my opinion, he's one notch above Taylor Jacobs. I would LOVE reggie wayne, but there is no way indy gives him up and he would be much more of a salary cap problem than owens.

I understand everyone's reservations about T.O. Until i read that article, I had them myself. I think its worth considering, for the right price. I think a T.O. santana moss combo could be the most lethal duo in the NFL.


Look this just doesn't make sense bigsef. As you say TO is selfish and only interested in money. So while teams might be able to get a "deal" for him right now, that is just on paper though. Any team would be foolish to sign him without giving him a whopper of a contract. If someone shows him the money, he might be manageable. The eagles probably wouldn't have had a problem with him if they sent some coin his way after his great "team first" first season. TO is arguable one of the best in the league and wants the pay his play warrants and if he doesn't get it he will turn into a cancer. No team that signs him to league minimum will end up with a real "deal", they will get a cancer. If they take the money issue out of his whining then the only thing he can implode about is the poor play from his teammates. That helps at least.

[ozomulsion]

I wouldn't wish that cancer on any team. He's good but not that god. I know Shanny or Gibbs would not risk their teams. Someone like Norv Turner, Mike Tice, Jack DelRio and maybe a few others would allow this to happen. Whoh be on them, their players, and their QBs

[BIGSEF3]

So, you'll let one article change your life? TO is much more dangerous off the field than on it.

It doesnt change my life, just my view of the T.O. thing but your point is well taken. Its not solely the article that changed my view, but it got me thinking. I have long felt T.O. acted like a child because he's only concerned with money. I won't restate all of what i've previously said, but to sum it up, after reading that article, I think T.O. has to realize that acting like a child will not get him money, so there's no reason for him to act like a child anymore. Sure if the skins got him, he would probably get in some arguments with our personel and coaches, but thats the price of success. Even Payton Manning, the classiest player in the NFL, was caught on primetime TV cursing out his offensive linemen when they didnt protect him. Its the name of the game. We NEED a stud receiver. We need another gamechanger to compliment Moss.

Up until this point, I have been adamant against us ever even considering T.O. I'm not saying we should just go get him, but I think we should CONSIDER it. when he becomes a FA, lets bring him in, interview him, have him work out for us. We don't like dealing with Drew, but I have a feeling T.O. may be in the market for a new agent.

[BIGSEF3]

Look this just doesn't make sense bigsef. As you say TO is selfish and only interested in money. So while teams might be able to get a "deal" for him right now, that is just on paper though. Any team would be foolish to sign him without giving him a whopper of a contract. If someone shows him the money, he might be manageable. The eagles probably wouldn't have had a problem with him if they sent some coin his way after his great "team first" first season. TO is arguable one of the best in the league and wants the pay his play warrants and if he doesn't get it he will turn into a cancer. No team that signs him to league minimum will end up with a real "deal", they will get a cancer. If they take the money issue out of his whining then the only thing he can implode about is the poor play from his teammates. That helps at least.

Thats not how I envision this thing happening. T.O. is not going to get the money he wants or a long-term in the contract he signs next year. Its a fact. T.O. knows this. He could possibly get a medium term contract that is HUGELY incentive and behavior related OR get a one year deal with a team, prove himself, and then he could sell himself to the highest bidder in 2007.

Either way, if T.O. proved himself to be worth any trouble he caused, this team would find a way to make it happen.

As far as money goes, I have an interesting alternative to tide T.O. over until he gets the money he "deserves." Tens of housands of skins around the country fans get together, and We each give him a dollar for every 10 yard and 10 dollars for every touchdown he catches against Philly. :-)

[Dexter72]

Thats not how I envision this thing happening. T.O. is not going to get the money he wants or a long-term in the contract he signs next year. Its a fact. T.O. knows this. He could possibly get a medium term contract that is HUGELY incentive and behavior related OR get a one year deal with a team, prove himself, and then he could sell himself to the highest bidder in 2007.

Either way, if T.O. proved himself to be worth any trouble he caused, this team would find a way to make it happen.

As far as money goes, I have an interesting alternative to tide T.O. over until he gets the money he "deserves." Tens of housands of skins around the country fans get together, and We each give him a dollar for every 10 yard and 10 dollars for every touchdown he catches against Philly. :-)

All of that sounds great except I think the obligatory media circus (24 hr ESPN, CNNSI, Fox Sports, etc. coverage) that inevitably comes with TO is too much of a distraction for any team...Its too bad, because we could obviously use a WR with his skills and I honestly think he may be able to fit in with some of the guys on this team, but he's too much of a distraction.

[LATrueRedskin]

God, do we not learn anything?

[colkurtz]

TO is looking for a team to get him a SB ring. The Redskins are too far from the top rung for him to consider this team. Thank goodness.

[bgforever]

TO is looking for a team to get him a SB ring. The Redskins are too far from the top rung for him to consider this team. Thank goodness.


Hint: we look to Detroit - they need linemen and pass defenders, an LB and RB. hmmm.

[vabeach_skinsfan]

Morten Anderson was saying the TO would likely go to the Cowgirls, since Jones got on TV saying he would take a chance on him. And that Mike Shanahan in Denver might be able to tame TO if he gets out of line.

[vabeach_skinsfan]

Morten Anderson was saying the TO would likely go to the Cowgirls, since Jones got on TV saying he would take a chance on him. And that Mike Shanahan in Denver might be able to tame TO if he gets out of line.

[fent]

And that Mike Shanahan in Denver might be able to tame TO if he gets out of line.

how many people out there will make this mistake over and over? i'm beginning to think you couldn't keep TO in line even if you put one of those anti-bark collars on him. he likes to hear his own voice so much he'd learn to live with the shock.

[bgforever]

Morten Anderson was saying the TO would likely go to the Cowgirls, since Jones got on TV saying he would take a chance on him. And that Mike Shanahan in Denver might be able to tame TO if he gets out of line.


I heard that on ESPN too with James Washington and it looks more and more like it could happen. Already D. Wyguen is saying something about retirement and being on IR. So obvious :) Also it would be a savings for a player that was "injured' off the active "starting" roster. The NFL has a stipulation about contracts and signing an additional player when you lose one off your starting roster correct?

[Redskinfan28]

It never dies.....

"Behind the scenes, there continues to be football executives who maintain that the Redskins are interested in wide receiver Terrell Owens.

The Redskins themselves, however, have openly and vehemently denied those statements. They insist they have no interest in adding T.O., even though Washington will be looking to add a frontline wide receiver this offseason.

Somebody is not telling the truth and, soon enough, we'll find out which side it is."


http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9204058

[akhhorus]

It never dies.....

"Behind the scenes, there continues to be football executives who maintain that the Redskins are interested in wide receiver Terrell Owens.

The Redskins themselves, however, have openly and vehemently denied those statements. They insist they have no interest in adding T.O., even though Washington will be looking to add a frontline wide receiver this offseason.

Somebody is not telling the truth and, soon enough, we'll find out which side it is."


http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9204058

The reason I don't beleive this is that the Redskins publically-on the record-said that they had no interest in TO.

[S.Taylor36]

It never dies.....

"Behind the scenes, there continues to be football executives who maintain that the Redskins are interested in wide receiver Terrell Owens.

The Redskins themselves, however, have openly and vehemently denied those statements. They insist they have no interest in adding T.O., even though Washington will be looking to add a frontline wide receiver this offseason.

Somebody is not telling the truth and, soon enough, we'll find out which side it is."


http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9204058

I still don't see it happening.

[GolfFreak]

I like the quote in the article --> "Somebody is not telling the truth and, soon enough, we'll find out which side it is."

We shall see ...

[Redskinfan28]

The reason I don't beleive this is that the Redskins publically-on the record-said that they had no interest in TO.

I agree - this guy is probably just trying to save face since the Redskins publicly denied his "breaking story" a few weeks ago.

[akhhorus]

I agree - this guy is probably just trying to save face since the Redskins publicly denied his "breaking story" a few weeks ago.

Dunno about that, but I think the original TO to the Skins story was from Rosenhaus trying to create a market for TO and this is Rosenhaus(by proxy) trying to keep the story in peoples' minds.

[hail2skins]

Look at that preppy outfit TO is wearing in that picture. It has that "I'm a good boy" feel.

[Redskinfan28]

Dunno about that, but I think the original TO to the Skins story was from Rosenhaus trying to create a market for TO and this is Rosenhaus(by proxy) trying to keep the story in peoples' minds.

This is the guy the "broke" the story the first time.

[Awesome2]

First of all, this story is dated February 2nd. He isn't trying to "save face" as someone else put it, this is just an older story.

Honestly, I don't think it matters that the organization has publicly debunked these rumors. I don't see why you would want to tip your hand early in this kind of thing. In my opinion, there is still a great chance of him winding up here.

[Redskinfan28]

First of all, this story is dated February 2nd. He isn't trying to "save face" as someone else put it, this is just an older story.

Honestly, I don't think it matters that the organization has publicly debunked these rumors. I don't see why you would want to tip your hand early in this kind of thing. In my opinion, there is still a great chance of him winding up here.

If that were the case then the Redskins simply wouldn't comment. Instead, Vinny C. came out and said that TO would not fit in with the Redskins - thats about as direct as a team can get. Couple this with the fact that the Redskins cannot afford him leaves the chances of signing TO at almost zero.

[akhhorus]

If that were the case then the Redskins simply wouldn't comment. Instead, Vinny C. came out and said that TO would not fit in with the Redskins - thats about as direct as a team can get. Couple this with the fact that the Redskins cannot afford him leaves the chances of signing TO at almost zero.

Or if the Skins still wanted to be cagey and keep their options open, they would just privately leak that they had no interest. When Karl Swanson calls Mike Florio from PFT-and allows him to say publically that he's the source-and publically issues a release saying they have no interest in TO; they don't have an interest in TO.

[Biggie]

Or if the Skins still wanted to be cagey and keep their options open, they would just privately leak that they had no interest. When Karl Swanson calls Mike Florio from PFT-and allows him to say publically that he's the source-and publically issues a release saying they have no interest in TO; they don't have an interest in TO.

Hey Akh, we're not interested in hiring you at our facility. You wouldn't fit in here. We're going to say so to the national media. Sorry.

Two weeks later:

Hey again Akh. How would you like to become our newest employee?

I just don't see how it could happen.

[akhhorus]

Hey Akh, we're not interested in hiring you at our facility. You wouldn't fit in here. We're going to say so to the national media. Sorry.

Two weeks later:

Hey again Akh. How would you like to become our newest employee?

I just don't see how it could happen.

Except that the NFL is a public business and there is a lot riding on public reputations. If the Skins wanted to keep the door open for TO-even a crack, then they wouldn't have publically and on the record slammed it shut.

[RicFlairOne]

Except that the NFL is a public business and there is a lot riding on public reputations. If the Skins wanted to keep the door open for TO-even a crack, then they wouldn't have publically and on the record slammed it shut.

I think you are right. The Skins are trying to restore their public image from the spending spree in 2000. Why would they take a chance on TO? I also agree with you from a few posts back about Swanson contacting PFT and basically issuing a public statement. No reason for him to do that unless they WERE not interested. As for those guys on Cold Pizza, I certainly do not take those clowns seriously! Who was it Bayless or Paige? Just goes to show there a lot of inept people on TV.

[FanFromArizona]

If that were the case then the Redskins simply wouldn't comment. Instead, Vinny C. came out and said that TO would not fit in with the Redskins - thats about as direct as a team can get. Couple this with the fact that the Redskins cannot afford him leaves the chances of signing TO at almost zero.

T.O. becoming a Redskin has got as much of a chance as the Colts letting Wayne become a Redskin. If we state that there is NO WAY T.O. will be a Redskin next year, I don't know what else that could be construed or inferred from such an emphatic statement.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

we REALLY need some breaking offseason news around here......

[FanFromArizona]

we REALLY need some breaking offseason news around here......


Well, that won't happen until we Free Agency starts, and just as others are speculating about this oddball joining us, we could go on speculating when the CBA will be extended and if there is any chance Free Agency period does NOT start on March 3.....


we could go on and on and on, just like the energizer bunny.

This time of year is just plain ol' :blah:

[santanadasavior]

Well, that won't happen until we Free Agency starts, and just as others are speculating about this oddball joining us, we could go on speculating when the CBA will be extended and if there is any chance Free Agency period does NOT start on March 3.....


we could go on and on and on, just like the energizer bunny.

This time of year is just plain ol' :blah:

I don't think that the offseason splash needs to be signing a clown. Our splash should be improving the parts of the team that need improvement, letting go of our dead weight, and trading Ramsey and maybe hopefully not Arrington. If we can get our depth on the OL and in the secondary, make a signing at DE, and get a potentially high profile WR to complement Moss (note: this WR is not supposed to be a #1 WR, it should be a #2 WR because we already have a #1 WR) then we will make a big enough of a splash. There has to be some thickheaded national anyalist that will see this as a huge step for us.

[hail2skins]

nmskin, that is paid content which should not be posted here. i have deleted your post with the paid content.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

TO is a NO.

[Redskin4Life]

TO is a NO.
Where did this come from? Why is this thread back from the dead?