Are the Redskins the most hated team in the NFL???

[Skinsfan1906]

You know, maybe it's just me, but it seems to me that the Redskins will win at least one trophy this year.......THE MOST HATED TEAM IN THE NFL.

Obviously, we are hated by Cowboy, Eagle and Giants fans. Believe me, the feeling is mutual. But it seems as though we have a new 'SKINS BANDWAGON..........THE HATE BANDWAGON.

When Snyder took over the team, people hated him.....conversely us, because they said that he was too young and too arrogant.

When Snyder paid $100 Million for that star-studded (LOL) team in 2000......more people hated us. Many fans from many teams hate him (and us) because he continues to spend money to help his team. They all claim that WE ARE TRYING TO BUY A SUPER BOWL.........yet we all have the same SALARY CAP!!!!!

I live in Baltimore, and now that they FINALLY have an NFL team here, they have made it a practice to HATE US........EVEN MORE THAN THE TEAMS IN THEIR OWN DIVISON (BELIEVE ME!!!).

Native American groups have (to some extent) hated us for our mascot imagery and team name........and now the JETS fans seem to really hate us for the off-season moves that we made.

IS IT JUST ME, OR ARE WE THE MOST HATED TEAM IN THE NFL????

[Chief Seeway]

It is my belief that the most "hated" teams, league wide are in no particular order(with some reasons):

Cowboys(america's team claim, puke! & that stupid star)
Raiders(raider nation, Plunket, Al Davis & his silly glasses)
Packers(cheese head)

As for the 'skins I think the only legitimate dislikers(new word) stem from our dominance in the 80's second only to the 49er's. Marching band, "hail to the redskins", a few years ago after a TD the TV coverage would continue and you could hear the song in the background, that would get on my nerves if I was an opponents fan. Plus the whole "fun bunch" thing didn't help matters. The Redskins celebrated better then any other team! Since Mr. Snyder took ownership, I think his passion and aggressiveness to win the way we did in the 80's was the culprit for other fans to dislike him and the Redskins.

[hail2skins]

Actually, alot of the opposing team's players like the fact that we have a band. They've even said it to us. Now, I'm sure they hate "Hail To The Redskins" because if they're hearing it, we just scored.

I believe we're hated because of Snyder. He doesn't play well with the other kiddies or the media.

[dj_stouty]

I think the Seahawks are the most hated team.

Just kidding...I think the Cowboys, Raiders, and 49ers are the all time most hated teams...

However, there has been a resurgence as of late to hate the skins. :mad:

[Spence]

Originally posted by hail2skins
I believe we're hated because of Snyder. He doesn't play well with the other kiddies or the media.

Mike's got it right there. The Skins might very well be the most hated NFL team right now. I think Snyder is the reason. I'm not even sure Cowboys fans hated Joe Gibbs. [Sure, Eagles fans did, but they hate their own mothers, too.]

[Spearfeather]

It's has to be Dallas.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

in a word: YES! but i love the hate! bring it on!

skinsfan1906......i dont live in b-more, but i live in between both DC and baltimore and i come across fans of both the redskins and raisins (ravens) all the time. day by day, raisins fans are climbing closer and closer to the level of the team that i despise the most, the cowgirls. i cannot stand the arrogance of ravens fans, i think billick has rubbed off. they always seem to think that the redskins fans have some reason to be jealous of them because they won the SB 3 years ago when we have 3 trophies. yet, they are always hating on the skins. if they are so much better than us, then why do they act so jealous?? they are like the little brothers and the redskins are the big brothers that tolerate them. pre-season or not, i cant wait for the game against them on august 23rd.

[Skins57]

Hopefully after we destory everyone this year, we are the most hated and SS's one liners will be off and running

[nyjunc]

I don't think you guys are that hated by most and if you are it's only b/c of your annoying little owner. I never hated the 'Skins until this offseason(and we know why) and I'll probably not hate them again after 9/4 again.

[jporterweb]

Originally posted by nyjunc
I don't think you guys are that hated by most and if you are it's only b/c of your annoying little owner. I never hated the 'Skins until this offseason(and we know why) and I'll probably not hate them again after 9/4 again.

Wow, arrogance and lack of grammar. j/k But I had to throw a shot in there since you seem to think by your comment that your Jips....I mean Jets will actually beat the 'Skins.

[Hailyeah]

I don't think we're the most hated, but we're certainly the team that invokes the most eye rolls though, and that may be worse.

The Skins have lost credibility as an organization over the Snyder regime. Really post Gibbs. We always seem to be THE paper tiger team in March that spends like fiends in FA (Stubblefield, Sanders, etc) and mucks it up on the field when live bullets start flying. One playoff appearance in a decade is a flat out joke especially for a team with a proud tradition and a ridiculously loyal following. The 2000 Deion and friends debacle, the seemingly never ending coaching carousel and now Spurrier and his controversial comments and flightiness have added levels of 'look at those morons in Wash'. The rest of the league thinks were laughable and maybe weak. Bill Cowher made the comment that all you have to do to the Skins is 'hit em in the mouth' and they'll fold. Troy Hambrick arrogantly made similar claims about the Skins heart last year after the turkey day game. I think organizational stability and actually making the playoffs a few times are the only cures to this negative perception.

[Skaggsrules]

I think were most hated, and I don't care. At my school i've made many friends and only 2 don't hate the redskins. Coaches in NFL didn't like SS "running-up the score" in the preseason game. Nobody likes Dan Snyder, even the Skins fans hate him. Native Americans hate us using the name. And every other team is just jealous that were goin to beat the crap out of everyone, and win the SB.

[TexSkin]

Yup Cowboys are the most hated for sure....the Skins are hated more by the media then the fans themsleves. The media hates us because of our owner. They are all like sheep though, even if they agree with Snyder they will keep putting him down.

[lamont_jordan_rules]

...spearfeather:funpost: ...you crack me up...
...skaggs ...u pretty funny too ... i don't hate the skins ...want to kick the crap out of u on sept 4 though...
...:smash:
...then, like the good little brother u are, i'll pat u on the head and send u out into the real world...if any afc-beasty bullies come after u the rest of the season just let good ole lamont know & he'll take a new york jet fist to their head for u...:sfight:

l_j_r

[Texas Skin]

Most hated...... NO
Disrespected...... YES

[LakeAnneCrew]

Let them hate us... I want the players to feel that hate during the game and pound the opponents. Then shake their hands. I've always thought (no bias here) that the skins were the classiest team in the league. It's rare to hear of a Redskin in trouble. Sometimes I think this team is TOO nice.

[dukeuch]

Anyone who really hates the Redskins probably does because of one man: Daniel Snyder. Just like those who hate the Yankees because of Steinbrenner, people cannot abide meddling, know nothing owners who demand loyalty but give none. Because they are successful in some business, they think they know everything about their sport, and are good judges of talent.

Hell, at least Jerry Jones knows something about how to build a team (he cemented his rep as a good GM in his first year, the Herschel Wlaker trade which turned the team around for a decade).

Hopefully, Snyder will eventually learn the lesson Steinbrenner did, llow himself to bluster on in the press but stay the hell away from the GM's office. Yeah, right.

[TexSkin]

Hell, at least Jerry Jones knows something about how to build a team (he cemented his rep as a good GM in his first year, the Herschel Wlaker trade which turned the team around for a decade).


I think it was more Jimmy Johnson then Jerry Jones. He was also the knucklehead that fired a coach after winning back to back superbowls for him..Oh yeah that was smart. :)
As you can tell not a big Jerry Jones fan here.

[nyjunc]

Hopefully, Snyder will eventually learn the lesson Steinbrenner did, llow himself to bluster on in the press but stay the hell away from the GM's office. Yeah, right.

I'm a Yankee fan and luckily for us George was suspended by MLB for a few years allowing Gene Michael and Buck Showalter to build the latest dynasty, had George been around I doubt we would have seen the 4 out of 5 Title years.

[coachsanto]

I also beleive Dallas, San Fran, and possibly the raiders are the most hated.
The reason why Skins seem to be so hated right now is because any body who brings any sort of controvery (Snyder and Spurrier) is going to bring attention.

[Shabba]

Most of the time being amoung the most hated comes along with success and winning which the Skins have not had either one lately.
Now if you are the Cowboys, then that's the exception.
But no I don't believe that we are even in the top 9 or 10 most hated teams in the league.

[Skinsfan1906]

LADYNREDSKINS: You are absolutely right. There is a JEALOUSY thing with the Ravens fans. Too my surprise, even on sports talk shows up here (which are extremely pro-ravens and equally anti-redskins)....they even admitted (on several occasions) THAT THE CITY OF BALTIMORE (AND RAVENS FANS SPECIFICALLY), have an "inferiority complex" (their words) with regard to the city of Washington D.C. and the Redskins. B-More hates the fact that it plays second fiddle to our "Nations Capital" and is the forgotten city on the East Coast......in the shadows of BOSTON, NEW YORK, PHILLY, AND D.C. I am actually planning to move back to my roots, the place of my birth.......WASHINGTON D.C. (AREA) within the next year or too.


LIVE IN BALTIMORE..............LOVE D.C.

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

i listen to bruce cunningham from fox 45 news on his ravens radio show once in awhile and they ALWAYS have to bring up the redskins even if the redskins have absolutely nothing to do with the conversation. its incredible...... but i love arguing with them....

[LostinNH]

I think the media hates the team much more than fans do.

[dukeuch]

Originally posted by nyjunc
I'm a Yankee fan and luckily for us George was suspended by MLB for a few years allowing Gene Michael and Buck Showalter to build the latest dynasty, had George been around I doubt we would have seen the 4 out of 5 Title years.

I'm a Yankee hater, but lived in NYC for 14 years until a couple of years ago. I think you are right on the money. Steinbrenner learned the hard way when out of the loop (at least partially) they built their current dynasty. Now he pretends he's making the baseball decisions, but probably is only providing the cash.

[Skins57]

I agree it is the media that hates us more so than the fans. Alot of people I know dispise Snyder

[Redbeard]

Originally posted by Skins57
I agree it is the media that hates us more so than the fans. Alot of people I know dispise Snyder


I agree whole-heartedly, Snyder & Spurrier have become "the usually suspects" when ever the media is having a slow day. Also its an easy story/picture to paint that requires no effort or work. ie. - "Dan Snyder was reported pulled into a handi-cap parking space before realizing it and pulling out...News at 11!!"
-"Steve Spurriers own wife returned two library books SIX DAYS LATE!! Uncomfirmed sources claim one of the books was on how to be a better housekeeper?? ...News at 9!!"

I also thinks it's laughable that people WANT to brand Snyder a failed owner in less than 5 years. Obviously a case of wishful thinking over objectivity.

[AGibbsGirl]

I'm surprised Philly wasn't the most hated, but I suppose, like the Yankees, it's the fans everyone hates more then the actual team.

Snyder has made some pretty glaring mistakes over the years no doubt, but how in the world could the Skins be more hated then
"America's Team"?http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/contrib/geno/kotzen.gif

[Spence]

Originally posted by AGibbsGirl
I'm surprised Philly wasn't the most hated

If more people came into contact with Philly fans I guarantee the Eagles would top the list of most-hated teams.

[sportsjunkie]

I don't hate the skins, no reason really. I still think my team, the raiders are the most hated in the league. All the owners hate Al, except maybe Snyder, Rooney and Jones. Most fans think we are all thugs or halloween freaks. Al is sue happy, so the league hates him.

Can you top that? :D

[Redbeard]

Originally posted by sportsjunkie
I don't hate the skins, no reason really. I still think my team, the raiders are the most hated in the league. All the owners hate Al, except maybe Snyder, Rooney and Jones. Most fans think we are all thugs or halloween freaks. Al is sue happy, so the league hates him.

Can you top that? :D

Yeah, we act like we can out spend everone. Even worse...we usually do. People can't stand it.

[sportsjunkie]

Originally posted by Redbeard
Yeah, we act like we can out spend everone. Even worse...we usually do. People can't stand it.

Kind of hard to outspend everyone when each team has the same salary cap. I know what you mean though, but I can't see how anyone can be mad at Snyder for spending cash. I think the teams that do that are just PO'd they can't.

[Terry]

I don't think we're the most hated at all. In fact we're probably below the radar of nost NFL fans. I doubt they care.

I do beleive that we have the most stereotyped owner, and that any notoriety we do have stems from him. But even there it seems to be more of a nerdy, rich boy, Jerry Jones wannabe carricature than anything of real hatred.

Any perceived hatred outside of our NFC East rivalries and the Baltimore DC-chip-on-it's-shoulder issue is in the mind of Skins fans more than anything else.

[PennSkinsFan]

Yeah I woudl put Dallas up there over us, maybe 49ers, Raiders. BUT, i agree with Terry, you gotta thing that Snyder is one of the most hated owners.

Sportsjunkie---that has been my point all along. They say Snyder overspends, but he works under the same cap limits all other teams do, he just presses and squeezes the most out of it he can.

[Redbeard]

Originally posted by sportsjunkie
I think the teams that do that are just PO'd they can't.



Exactly! Personally I hope it keeps them up at night. Doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'd actually relish it.

[camasterton]

The "sheep mentality" of journalists would be a comical (baaaa) if it were not so derisive and mean. If ever a compliment is given, it is with the backhand. They, as a group have not had an origional thought, um ever!(see the joke). This 1968, Columbia School of Journalism, "we'll tell you who's righteous and who's the evil Man" crap is getting old. I'm reading Lindey's NFL Preview this morning, for instance- They continue to rag Mr. Snyder for trying to "buy" a championship yet praise others for aggressively upgrading thier teams or The Raiders owner is an trend bucking maverick, The Redskins owner is a fool for attempting a new way. Spurrier is thier lowest rated coach, our QBs are the lowest rated, our Rbs have the lowest rating, same with our draft, and the Team rating is the 3rd worst in the NFL. Spurrier is arrogant yet Parcells is confident-Snyder is a poor manager for spending, yet Bowden & Blank are genius-Trading our 1st for a #1 receiver is risky yet Alanta's signing of #2 Price is brilliant. Bias in the media, imagine that. I don't know if we're the most hated or disrespected- After taking similar coach hiring paths, Millen is fined $200k and Jerry Jones is praised, Detroit has cause to feel highly dissed- but we're up there.

[RedskinsDave]

There is a level of hate that is enhanced by the way ESPN presents the Skins. I was in Buffalo and someone said something about Snyder. I asked what has he done and has he broken any rules. Of course they had no answer and just mumbled something about the 2000 team. You'd think since there's the claim that Snyder and Spurrier are so incompetent that the rest of the league would love them.

In Baltimore, they have a gigantic inferiority complex so, of course, they hate the Skins.

[Ed Poe]

I'm a Ravens fan, Baltimore native, and former Washington resident. I've have a healthy hate for the Redskins, but it isn't due to an inferiority complex (LOL).

For Baltimore fans, it has mostly to do with the fact that we're 40 miles away. It's a regional rivalry, for crissakes. Danny Snyder isn't the most sympathetic of owners, either.

[Ed Poe]

To expand on the Danny Snyder thing, we Baltimore folks equate him to Peter Angelos, which isn't a good thing.

I'd also add that the whole "Hail to the Redskins" thing and the tired Hogettes acts have outlived their welcome.

On the other hand, there aren't many players I've admired more than Art Monk and Darrell Green.

[CarMike]

Welcome hR Ed Poe. Hope you will stick around and chat with us from time to time....

As for the "Hail to the Redskins" and the Hogetts being tired......well, thats definately an outsiders point of view. I know I'm not tired of either one. Its called tradition. Something a lot of teams wish they had for the franchises.

[Redbeard]

Funny, I was living in Hawaii when Baltimore got the Ravens (grew up & living now in DC metropolitian). And I was thrillled Baltimore got a franchise again and still consider the Ravens my surrogate AFC home team. Just like New Yorkers, Californians, Floridians, Philadelphians & Texans all have NFC & AFC counterparts. I think it distiguishing. Anyway, in Hawaii I had to go to a sports Bar at 7am to catch Redskin games, and started rooting for the Ravens as well. (what a test of fanhood)

I admit the Hogettes are border-line ridiculous, but a ridiculousness I enjoy. And again the "rabid fans" at the stadiums distinguish of all the "storied franchises". The Raiders have their "Darth Raider" & crowd. Cleveland - their "Dog Pound". Pittburgh - their "terrible towels". Packers - Cheeseheads. It's all somewhat tired, but hey they're OUR tiredness. It could be said - Tradition is institutionalized tiredness.

[RedskinsDave]

Maybe not you Ed, but Baltimore as a whole has a huge inferiority complex when it comes to anything Washington, especially the Redskins. There was a ton of jealousy that developed when the Colts left and the Redskins were a top team.

I can understand the Hogettes but how does a fight song get old? Are you tired of Notre Dame and Michigan's as well?

p.s.- Are you the same Ed Poe from sunspot?

[Ed Poe]

Redskins Dave,

Yes, I'm the same guy. I got tired of Redskins fans being annoying on Sunspot and thought that I'd come here and set a good example.

I'm still not sure how you can know that "the entire Baltimore area" has an inferiority complex about everything Washington, including the Redskins.

I don't say this to diss the Skins, but I think our team has the better track record since the Ravens have been around. How can Baltimoreans feel inferior?

I also disagree that Baltimoreans in general feel that the city is inferior to Washington. I like Washington. It's a beautiful place with a lot of culture, classical architecture and L'Enfant did a nice job of laying it out. But Washington isn't a real city. It's essentially an urban office park populated by surburbanites.

Real cities are by definition gritty and parochial and congested. Washington, while nice art, is none of these things. Virtually no one from Washington is actually from Washington. In real cities, like Pittsburgh and Cleveland and Buffalo, EVERYONE is from there, and has been for generations.

Washington is more like a government theme park.

[Ed Poe]

To more succinctly put it, I don't think that Baltimorons feel inferior to Washington, they just find it irrelevant.

[Ed Poe]

Carmike:

Sorry about three posts in a row, but I neglected to acknowledge your welcome. Thanks. I'll stop by from time to time. As for "some teams" not having tradition, you conveniently forgot that the NFL allowed our tradition to move to Indianapolis a few years back. That being said, John Unitas was on the sideline for every Ravens game that I went to. That's plenty of tradition for me.

[CarMike]

I didn't like the move either Ed. And I wasn't trying to implie that Baltimore didn't have any tradition. The Ravens may not right now. But, when I hear about the Colts, Baltimore still comes to mind for a split second. I thought it was a terrible way to treat the people of Baltimore. Leaving in the middle of the night without any warning........

BTW, we love to have "outsiders" input here. Just keep it respectful and it'll be returned. Welcome again.

[RedskinsDave]

Oh boy do I love a good banter with Baltimoreans. I would never expect you to admit to the inferiority complex. It would mean one didn't exist.

I guess your definition of a "real" city is one that is rusting to death while the generations of families are watching their kids move to Washington and Charlotte. Come on down to our theme park and make some cash. You certainly won't in your parochial little union towns. There is a reason why everyone is FROM those towns, no one MOVES there, everyone moves FROM there. I wonder why all those towns you named are dwindling while the D.C. metro area is booming?

I was born and raised in the area and so were most of my friends. In order for a town to grow, you need some transience. Otherwise, the town would just end up being Cleveland, Buffalo or Pittsburgh and I don't think we could handle the mullets. Okee hon?

btw, I'm baseballindc over at sunspot.

[Ed Poe]

Dave,

You're awfully defensive about DC. I think that my observations are pretty on-target. As I said, there are many good things about DC. I just think that it's not fair to compare DC to real cities, even fast-growing ones like Jacksonville and Phoenix and Atlanta.

Washington is a company town for the government. It lacks diversity. THAT'S what makes it something other than a real city. I was part of the whole Inside the Beltway thing (worked at 20th & M), and only when I moved away did I realize that not everyone in America gives a crap about the government.

Living there is truly living in a bubble. Again, I'm not saying it's bad. It's just different. But don't go equating the DC living experience with anything else, because it isn't anything else.

Your backhanded jabs are rusting traditional cities aren't hitting me. I live on the Eastern Shore. By the way, please stop clogging my roads on your way down the ocean, hon.

[RedskinsDave]

Gee, I wonder why you would think I was defending D.C.? Hmm, maybe because you call other cities "real cities" and then name two more who couldn't hold D.C.'s proverbial jockstrap. Jacksonville? You've apparently never been there. Combined population in Jax and Phoenix are about half of the Washington Metro area so they better keep growing.

As far as not everyone outside of the beltway giving a crap about the government, who cares? Yeah, inside the beltway we care about the government. Probably because it's RUN HERE. I guess you think those folks on Wall Street who only care about the financial world are pretty narrow minded too.

Washington lacks diversity and your rust belt towns somehow have it. Yeah all those white and black people who just speak english sure do make for diversity. Talk about living in a bubble.

[RedskinsDave]

Oh yeah and please don't get me started on Edgar Allan Poe and Baltimore, that one's a doozy.

[Ed Poe]

Dave,

You've got some barely suppressed anger going there, brother. Here, let us engage in the following little exercise to see which of us is narrow-minded. I will list five things that are better in DC than in Baltimore. You can try to do the inverse.

Here goes:

Compared to Baltimore, DC.....

1. Has better looking women.
2. Has better ethnic restaurants.
3. Has better open spaces.
4. Has a much better subway.
5. Has lots of free stuff to do (at taxpayer expense)

Okay, now it's your turn, Mr. Open Minded.

[Ed Poe]

And please do reveal all of the misconceptions that you have about EA Poe and Baltimore. I'll take great pleasure in shooting them down.

[Skinsfan1906]

ED POE: First of all welcome. Glad to have you. You know, I have beaten this Baltimore "inferiority" complex thing to death. Oh, by way of introduction; I WAS "BORN" IN WASHINGTON D.C. AND LIVED THERE AS A SMALL CHILD. I WAS "RAISED" IN PITTSBURGH, PA (AND WENT TO MIDDLE & HIGH SCHOOL THERE), AND I CURRENTLY "RESIDE" IN BALTIMORE (AND BEEN LIVING HERE FOR OVER 15 YEARS). Does this qualify me to coment on this subject matter??? I think so. I can tell you with out a doubt that BALTIMORE CLEARLY HAS AN INFERIORITY COMPLEX..........CLEARLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even on the local Sportstalk 1570am, the radio jocks (as much as it's worth) regularly ADMIT that Baltimore has an "inferior complex" which is (one of the reasons) why they HATE Washington (and the Redskins) so much. I have mentioned on this board that it is soooooooo bad that when I went to a Ravens game (1996, I think), they announced the final score of an NFL football game; Pittsburgh Steelers-14, Washington Redskins-13. The place went bananas!!! People were applauding, giving high-fives, etc. I was sitting there wondering if "these are the stupidest fans in the NFL" (no offense). There OWN DIVISIONAL OPPONET WON, AND THEY WERE HAPPY. Can you imagine a Skins fan.............ANY SKINS FAN.......actually applauding if the COWBOYS BEAT THE RAVENS?????? I think not. In the Baltimore Sun, they had an article writtten (about 2 years ago....Mike Preston), when he talked about the fact that a Ravens/Redskins "rivalry" is ONE-SIDED and ONLY in the minds of Ravens fans. He indicated that REDSKINS fans could "care less" about the Ravens.....and many of us actually wish them well. Ravens fans get upset that we are on Monday night football (actually on Thursday this year) and they are not, yet we had identical records. We get far more national press coverage. Even the year after the Ravens won the Super Bowl (and we didn't even make the playoffs), we had just as many Nationally televised games as you guys did......which pissed off Ravens fans!!!!! Actually, when you think about it.........why else would you guys hate us sooooo much? The 40 mile proximity stuff doesn't wash with me. You are AFC, we are NFC. We only see each other every 4 years. There is no historical precedent pitting the Ravens/Redskins. It's just pure Hate.....(or as they say in hip-hop......"playa hate"). Remember, the by-product of hate is JEALOUSY. People don't (usually) hate that which is inferior. Do you think that the Los Angeles Lakers HATE the Los Angeles Clippers or the Golden State Warriors. Do you think that the New York Yankees hate the New York Mets. Just something to think about. Oh, before I forget, the whole "real city thing".......I lived in Pittsburgh, and that to me is not a city.............it's a "town" LOL.

[RedskinsDave]

Okay, I'll play. Baltimore has:

1. better stadiums
2. Fells Point
3. Inner Harbor
4. Less Traffic
5. better aquarium

As far as Poe is concerned, I did some research out of basic curiosity. I found out that he was born in Boston, raised in Richmond and wrote his most famous pieces in New York. He went to school at UVa and West Point. Outside of a few years in his young adulthood and drinking himself to death in his later years, he has no real connection to Baltimore. I know there is the mysterious person who visits his grave each year but nothing during his life was productive in Balmer. All this information I got from the Poe Museum, appropriately located in Richmond, Va.

Shoot away.

[Redbeard]

May I say I've never felt bigger is better. (that, I've always thought, is New York's misconception, who also act like everyone is envious of them, which few are)

Maybe living abroad has made me less bent against Baltimore. But I like Baltimore. I like the Ravens. And objectively you have to admit they have outperformed the Redskins.

Redskins first, but Ravens second, I say.

[Ed Poe]

Skinsfan - Nice job describing the symptoms, but you totally blew the diagnosis. Here's your logic: Since Ravens fans hate the Redskins, it is obviously due to a municipally-shared "inferiority complex". I hope you're not a physician.

I am certain that while living in Baltimore for 15 years, you've been accosted daily by Baltimoreans sighing and lamenting the fact that they wish the city was as great as Washington. I wonder, if this is the case, why they don't all move down to DC. It's a short drive.

The reason that many Baltimore fans hate the Skins is that when the Colts left Baltimore, the Skins were shoved down our throats as our "local" team, just as the Orioles are shoved down the throats of DC folks.

Prior to 1984, Baltimore fans didn't care at all about the Redskins.

[Ed Poe]

Red Dave,

Okay, I'll give you credit for saying some nice (and accurate) things about Baltimore, and also for studying up on Mr. Poe.

I fully expected you to trot out the juvenile and simplistic story that he died drunken in a gutter, but your research likely spared you and clued you into the fact that there still remain several theories about the man's death.

You did neglect to note that while he was born in Boston, he was born during a family trip there. His family was from Baltimore, and had lived there for over 50 years when he was born. His grandparents and parents are buried in Baltimore, as are he and his wife.

His father was a local actor, and his brother was a modestly successful local author. Poe always claimed that Baltimore was his birthplace.

But now that we're talking about local icons and team mascots, what's up with the Washington Redskins? Sure, I can see that you've got a river with an Indian name running through town, but is that it? Also, what do you folks think of the new Florida State helmets? They are an improvement over the cartoon Indian. I hope that the Skins adopt them full-time.

Oh yeah. We also hate Danny Snyder. He's just not real likeable. Sorry.

[RedskinsDave]

I still don't understand why Baltimore has such a big claim to the man. I do, however, enjoy that they do because when anyone questions why I am a Yankees fan and I tell them because my father is a New Yorker I can trot that out. I would just think that Baltimore would have someone with more of a connection to the town and a less infamous life to lay claim to.

As far as the Redskins, they were named Redskins while in Boston. Originally they were the Braves because they played in Braves field. They moved to Fenway and changed the name to the Redskins to add Red to the name and still keep the indian theme.

The FSU-like helmets were a one year deal for the 70th anniversary. They will be going back to the indian on the helmet, which by the way is not a cartoon at all.

[Skinsfan1906]

ED POE: No, I am not a Physician, but I come from a family of Physicians (including my Brother who is the lead Physician and heads a Hospital Emergency Ward in the Pittsburgh area......and he is only in his thirties). Maybe some of my family history has rubbed off on me (LOL). Anyway, you totally failed in understanding my "diagnosis". I hope that you are NOT a medical student. First of all, like I stated, its not like I'm the only one with this opinion. 1570 sportscasters talk about this all of the time. Some Ravens fans who actually call in tend to agree!!!!! Secondly, you must have missed my inferior teams are JEALOUS (or hate) Superior teams (or cities) AND NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. Thirdly, the whole when the Colts left and the Redskins were shoved down our throats "theory" doesn't wash. While I recognize that loosing the Colts left a sour taste in many Baltimorians mouths and while some Colts fans resented the Redskins for being "annointed" the "Local Team"...........you are forgetting some key points:

A. It was not the Redskins that left in the middle of the night, it was the Colts!!!!!

B. Many Colts fans saw Bob Ersay as the "real" enemy.

C. The owner of the Redskins who you have accused of such a crime......IS DEAD!!!!! Let it go, already!!!!

D. Wheather or not you want to believe it..........there are quite a few REDSKINS fans right here in Baltimore. Several people that work in my building are Redskins fans. In my actual department there are actually more Redskins fans than Ravens fans (WOW). Even at the major Supermarket in my neighborhood they sell the "Redskins Insider" and "Warpath" newspapers. By the way, they don't sell any Ravens publications (to my knowledge). DID I MENTION THAT I LIVE IN BALTIMORE????

E. When the Colts left, many of their fans became Redskins fans (proximity), Steelers fans (History/proximity), Dolphins fans (Don Shula), Indy fans (some couldn't let go of the Colts), etc. Many who became Redskins fans are now switching back to the Ravens....but many didn't.

F. When the Colts left..............WHO WOULD YOU HAVE TO BE THE LOCAL TEAM??? Were only 40 miles away. If not us, WHO???

Actually, I could to go on and on until the letter Z and beyond, but I think that I have made my point!!!

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

Originally posted by Ed Poe

I'd also add that the whole "Hail to the Redskins" thing and the tired Hogettes acts have outlived their welcome.


that there ed, is what we redskins fans call tradition. its history, which is something the ravens barely have yet. and i want someone to explain why one owner makes people hate a whole team? i cant stand anything about the ravens, but i have nothing against baltimore....how could i, im from maryland myself.

[Ed Poe]

Okay, I'm done with this. We're just talking past each other now. Suffice it to say, I have nothing against the Skins other than healthy regional rivalry, a spoiled brat owner, and the racial slur team name.

I sincerely hope that both of our teams make it to the Super Bowl, where your Mr. Ramsey is quite likely to meet some of the gentlemen from our defensive squad.

Best of luck for the season.

[RedskinsDave]

He might meet them but they had better get off of him so he can go celebrate the TD he just threw. Just a split second too late Suggs, not quite the same pace as college is it?

[Ed Poe]

I wouldn't be worried about Suggs so much as the more experienced gentlemen. Actually, you should worry about all of them.

It's too bad that our game against the Skins is a meaningless preseason deal. I would have loved to have come on and talked some smack with you folks before and after. In the preseason, it's hardly worth it: "Our fourth-team D line dominated your third-team O line." Where's the fun in that?

[RedskinsDave]

I would've looked forward to more whining about how far Modell was made to walk. That was some awesome smack talk. The man walks out on an entire city and can't walk halfway around a stadium?

[Skinsfan1906]

Speaking of Modell........hmmm. It always amazed me that Ravens fans (99% of which are former Colts fans) can talk about any team's owner (especially ours).

Colts fans (now Ravens fans).......cried fowl (no pun intended) that another city (Indianapolis) "stole" their football team, who has been a pillar of the Baltimore community..................and then 12 years later, the Ravens DID THE EXACT SAME THING and "stole" a pilar of another community (Cleveland)!!!!!!!

How much of a Hypocrite do you need to be in order to scream about the lack of morality of your past (Colt) owner........but not have a problem with receiving a team under strikingly similar circumstances (with your current owner)?????. Ravens fans kill me with that one.

They were MAD that their owner left them in the cold, but they are o.k. with the fact that their owner left another city in the cold. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!!!!!!!!!

[Ed Poe]

Skinsfan:

You obviously were only a casual observer of Baltimore's efforts to get another team after the Colts left. Me, I don't blame Irsay for taking his team to Indy. He's a businessman. It's his team, and he should take it where he wants.

I do, however, blame the NFL for snubbing Baltimore's superior bid for an expansion franchise in favor of Jax and Carolina, two of the smallest TV markets in the country.

We were also used by the Glazers and by Bill Bidwell to bid up the prices paid by Tampa Bay and Arizona for their teams.

Baltimoreans have never been happy with how we got the Ravens, but after Tagliaboob said that we should spend our public funds on "building a museum" he left us with luring another team as our only option.

So we draw Art Modell, who had been utterly shat upon by the city of Cleveland for years. Then, in an amazing turn of events, the NFL suddenly develops a conscience and immediately grants Cleveland an expansion team, keeping their team records and colors in town. What did they miss, like two seasons?

As for the whole incident, it's very easy to cast stones if you haven't been there. Imagine 14 seasons without your beloved Hogettes and your little song. After a few more years of Danny Snyder's stewardship, I can foresee your franchise going down the same path. An unpopular owner with a track record of failure alienates his fan base, then decides to sell or move the team out of town.

Your carping about Baltimore's methods is just whistling past the graveyard. I sincerely hope that it never happens to you, but have some class and acknowledge that if you were in our position, you'd have done the same thing.

[RedskinsDave]

Gee Ed, sure sounds alot like our dealings with MLB. One would think you fellers up there would be a little more sympathetic.

[TexSkin]

Modell is scumm..don't believe for a second that the city of cleveland treated him unfairly..he moved out of pure greed from a fan base as loyal as they come. Sounds like you are just trying to make excuses for what you know in your heart was a raw deal for the fans of the Browns. For all the crap Snyder gets for the 2000 spending spree..people tend to forget the second highest paid team and only slightly less then the Skins, was the Ravens.

[RedskinsDave]

That whole "they got their name and colors back" so it's all justified is bunk. Hypocrisy is a natural thing for Baltimorons.

Yeah Ed, I'm so sure the Skins will be moved since there surely is another town where you can have the highest priced ticket and still have a 20 year long waiting list. The big difference between Snyder and Modell is it won't take Snyder 40 years to be a winner.

Since you hate our "little song" so much here's a few bars: Hail to the REDSKINS, Hail victory. Braves on the warpath, fight for ole D.C.!!!!!!!

[Ed Poe]

Red Dave,

You are without question the angriest of dudes. I have no problem with DC getting a baseball team. Of course Peter Angelos fights it, just as Jack Kent Cooke fought against Baltimore getting a team. It's a business, and you do everything that you can to protect your franchise from competition.

As for the "Wah, Cleveland Got Hosed" crowd, compare Cleveland's situation to Baltimore's in 1984. Same exact situation, but Cleveland didn't learn Baltimore's lesson that the NFL will let your team leave. Cleveland still came out much better than Baltimore in the end.

As for Modell, he has said that he would have stayed in Cleveland for half of what the city ended up spending after he left. And as for Danny Snyder's team winning a Super Bowl any time soon, I don't share your optimism.

Snyder is the Peter Angelos of football. He got rich quick at least partly through good fortune, and now he thinks that he can outmanage everyone in the league. He is, and will continue to be an owner who keeps trying to plug new free agents into his system each year, so his team will never jell.

He lacks the patience to develop a well-considered system to address his team's long term development. He always goes for the flashy move over the smart move.

If the NFL were like Major League Baseball and didn't have a salary cap, your team would be as successful as the Yankees. But in a salary cap environment, an undisciplined owner will not find success.

[Ed Poe]

Red,

Also, contrary to your charge, I don't "hate" your song. I only find it tiresome. I actually attended a Skins game at RFK years ago, and it was generally a pleasant experience. I know that it's easy to dismiss what I say by labeling me a "hater", but I'm not one.

[AGibbsGirl]

Snyder is the Peter Angelos of football

That's twice now you've said that.
Being a huge Orioles fan and a huge Redskins fan, I don't ever wanna hear this comparison again.

Snyder loves his team, Angelos doesn't give a damn.
Snyder spends his money on getting players in here, Angelos can't seem to get rid of our best players fast enough (Case in Point Ponson leaving!!! Mora next?)
Open your wallet you idiot!

Baltimore is Baltimore and they can do their own thing like they have been for the past...er...7 years (at the expense of the Maryland taxpayer btw) and we will keep our 71 year history, including our song.

[Skinsfan1906]

ED Poe: Naw, I am MUCH MORE than a "casual observer" of Baltimore's NFL plight with the COLT situation. Some of your points were true (and received) but they were not anything that I didn't already know. Some of what you said was indeed false, however, I do remember that by the time Bob Irsay sold the team, there were games being "blacked out" due to20,000 no shows. BTW.....I forgot that the FIRST neighborhood that I lived in when I moved to B-MORE was WAVERLY/Govans......and I lived down the street from Memorial Stadium. I also remember that PLAYOFF GAME (AGAINST OAKLAND...in the early '80s) THAT WAS FREAKIN' BLACKED OUT IN BALTIMORE.....CAUSE IT WASN'T SOLD OUT. HOW DO YOU NOT SELL OUT A PLAYOFF GAME??? Even the Ravens have their attendence problems. I remember going to a Ravens/Steelers game a couple years ago (only cause I got FREE tickets)......and I saw about 30,000......yes, 30,000 Steeler fans, making as much (or more) noise as Ravens fans. That, to me, was embarassing. The Ravens fan that took me to the game was sooooo upset, that he actually looked like he was going to cry. No joke!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That kinda thing would NEVER happen in our house. No visiting team will ever take over our stadium. Anyway, we all know that the way that Baltimore got the Ravens was the same way that Indianapolis got the Colts. Undeniable (and hypocracy at it's best). No one would sell and MOVE the Redskins, because:

* We Represent the Nations Capital....the MOST POWERFUL city in the world.

* We have the Largest stadium in the NFL.

* We have been sold out for over 35 years (straight) and have nearly 80,000 people on the waiting list ( I'm number 72000 something).

* We are the #1 ranked team in the entire NFL in revenue.

* We have 70 years of history (and counting).

The important thing (for you) is that you now have the Ravens and you root for them, and I totally respect you for rooting (and taking up for) your team....as we do the same for ours. I'm not mad at you at all. Obviously, we disagree, but living in Baltimore as long as I have, I truly have had a "birds eye" (pun intended) view of Baltimore football and Baltimore fans.

[RedskinsDave]

Ed, go ahead and take you high and mighty "you are the angriest of dudes" crap elsewhere. You call the song "your little song". You make other moronic statements about D.C. and then wonder why I come at you when you do. Maybe you should re-read the stuff you have posted as all I am doing is responding in kind. No anger here, just a dislike for folks from rusty little towns with a jumbled football history and a drunk Virginia poet as their hero making backhanded comments.

[rskinsfan10]

Originally posted by Ed Poe
Also, what do you folks think of the new Florida State helmets?

Ahhh. Check your history pal. FSU took the design from us, not the other way around. You can use that one with a gathering of your fellow Ravens fans. I'm sure all of them will get the answer wrong just as you seemingly would have, but thanks to your membership at HR you have now been schooled to the TRUTH. They may marvel at your knowledge of who had the design first, in which some may think of you as one of the smartest folks that they know. Let us know how it worked out....

[Ed Poe]

You Skins fans are RIGHTEOUS !!!!

[RedskinsDave]

You were close Ed. In your case, we're just RIGHT.

You want righteous, try your sunspotters like SanDiego and Old19. Those jokers wouldn't even debate with you as they want a board where everyone is a bunch of homers agreeing with each other.

[Skinsfan1906]

redskinsdave: WELL SAID. They are just a bunch of "homers". Very on point!!!!

[Ed Poe]

Yeah, and you guys aren't homers at all !!

I think that the Sunspot crowd is pretty accommodating about addressing non-troll posts from fans of other teams. There are several Steelers fans who are respected members of the group. For some reason, most of the Redskins fans and all of the Cleveland fans aren't there for serious discussion.

By the way, while I get my Ravens news from Sunspot, I am more typically hanging out at www.fanssportsboard.com, which is a private board with fans from every team, including a few Skins fans. If you ever want to talk with fans of other teams (to get an objective analysis, for instance), I highly encourage you to check it out.

[Skinsfan1906]

Hey Ed, thanks for the thread!!!! Will have to check it out. As for the Steeler fans on sunspot...........well, that probably validates what I have been saying for the last couple of weeks (that there are many Steeler fans in Baltimore and that they come in very large numbers to Ravens games in Baltimore). Redskins fans have so many site options and sunspot doesn't appeal to most of us (me included/and is quite negative Redskins wise)........but I have known some Redskins fans to get on board over there.

[Ed Poe]

Umm, Skinsfan. The Steelers fans on Sunspot live in Pittsburgh. It's the Internet, dude. : )

We'd welcome any and all of you guys on fanssportsboard.com. You'll be pleased to know that there is a total fool Cowboys fan there who you can feel free to abuse at will.

The Redskins-Cowboys games are the two games per season when you can count on EdPoe to wave the burgundy and gold.

[Skinsfan1906]

Originally posted by Ed Poe
Umm, Skinsfan. The Steelers fans on Sunspot live in Pittsburgh. It's the Internet, dude. : )

We'd welcome any and all of you guys on fanssportsboard.com. You'll be pleased to know that there is a total fool Cowboys fan there who you can feel free to abuse at will.

The Redskins-Cowboys games are the two games per season when you can count on EdPoe to wave the burgundy and gold.

Yeah ED.......I kinda figured this much:confused:!!! That being said, you mean to tell me that there are no Pittsburgh fans in Baltimore that use the internet????

I am convinced that many of those "Pittsburgh" fans reside right here and log on to sunspot (as a 'local' vehicle).

[Ed Poe]

I'm certain there are some, but the majority of the Pittsburgh fans on Sunspot list their location as somewhere in Pennsylvania. Pittsburghers, like Baltimorons, tend to stay in their hometown.

[ArkCowboy]

you are not the most hated team (that is definitely the cowboys!) but you have a very hated owner and SS (aka Visor-Boy) isn't well liked either!

[ArkCowboy]

Pittsburghers

???????????????
is that anything like a whopper?
:D :lol3:

[CarMike]

Originally posted by ArkCowboy
???????????????
is that anything like a whopper?
:D :lol3:

I was thinking the same thing Ark. LMAO

[Skinsfan1906]

Originally posted by ArkCowboy
???????????????
is that anything like a whopper?
:D :lol3:

Man, THAT WAS FUNNY AS H*L*!!! I am in my office laughing my arse off!!!!!!!!!!

[LadyNRedskinsfan]

LMAO!!