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View Full Version : Bring back Groom?


GolfFreak
11-25-2005, 05:18 PM
Who else besides me would like to see Andy Groom replace Frost? I don't recall Frost playing that great and don't really know why Groom was sent packing in the first place.

Can anyone tell me if he's even available or was he picked up by another team?

helimech24
11-25-2005, 05:30 PM
I wish Tupa never got hurt, then we wouldn't be in this position. Can we teach Novak to kick punts? LoL

SpicyMcHaggis
11-25-2005, 05:32 PM
I don't know what Groom's situation is right now, but I don't trust Frost at all..he's a 30 yard punt just waiting to happen..

redwolf1218
11-25-2005, 05:38 PM
Groom is no longer in the NFL. i was originally kind of excited about having a young punter to groom (pun intended). i thought maybe they wanted Frost for his experience as a holder as much as anything else. he doesnt appear to be punting any better than Groom did.

whitskins
11-25-2005, 05:58 PM
Both of them played like crap. Groom was the second worst rated punter in the NFL when he was cut, Frost is likely in that region as well. I wish Tupa had stayed healthy. Maybe he'll be back next year, if not the position definitely needs an upgrade.

silverspring
11-25-2005, 06:08 PM
frost has no leg and it is hurting our field position big time. I want him out of here. I think this is an issue that is not discussed nearly enough. This is a position where a single player is having a huge negative effect and no "team" effort can overcome it. He needs to be replaced. Our special teams struggle as is, he makes them look even worse.

In terms of groom, i didn't think he was too bad, certainly not great, but i would try anything at this point. Isn't frost taking duties for hall as well which is one of the reasons they like him?

SpicyMcHaggis
11-25-2005, 06:09 PM
http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/PNT/2005/regular

Fourth-worst in the NFL,lots of room for improvement there.Although to his credit his net average is not that bad..

whitskins
11-25-2005, 06:15 PM
frost has no leg and it is hurting our field position big time. I want him out of here. I think this is an issue that is not discussed nearly enough. This is a position where a single player is having a huge negative effect and no "team" effort can overcome it. He needs to be replaced. Our special teams struggle as is, he makes them look even worse.

In terms of groom, i didn't think he was too bad, certainly not great, but i would try anything at this point. Isn't frost taking duties for hall as well which is one of the reasons they like him?

It's easy to say he should be replaced, but replace him with who? Groom didn't do any better, if he were still here we'd be saying the same things about him. We've pretty much just gotta ride it out and upgrade in the offseason with a free agent, draft a punter, or get Tupa back, but when you're sorting through guys off the scrap heap there isn't much else out there but the same caliber player.

KMDeMuth
11-25-2005, 06:18 PM
Groom wasnt that good, as his #'s showed. He had the ability to kick it deep, but couldnt place it. Regardless of ability, he could not do it consitantly. But as well keep saying, with his raw ability and age....he has a huge upside.

In frost we have a guy who can punt (maybe not like tupa), He can place punts, he can hold for the place kicker (groom couldn't) AND he can place kick. He may not be "the best" at any one of the 3, but he is more then able.

I am sure tupa will be back since we put him on IR, we offered to release him so when he was healed he could look for another team. He declined the offer and last report i read he was still rehabilitating at redskins park.

With how injuries are going with the team right now, does it really seem like a bad thing to have frost the "versatile kicker"?

KMDeMuth
11-25-2005, 06:21 PM
http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/PNT/2005/regular

Fourth-worst in the NFL,lots of room for improvement there.Although to his credit his net average is not that bad..

thats sorted by yardage on the year....he wasnt here the first 2-3 games.

silverspring
11-25-2005, 06:27 PM
It's easy to say he should be replaced, but replace him with who? Groom didn't do any better, if he were still here we'd be saying the same things about him. We've pretty much just gotta ride it out and upgrade in the offseason with a free agent, draft a punter, or get Tupa back, but when you're sorting through guys off the scrap heap there isn't much else out there but the same caliber player.

True, but i would defer that question to gibbs and danny smith. They should have realized how important this position is and had some options. Or at least after his first couple games they should have been in the hunt. They could have signed someone to the practice squad to test out or something. All I know is i don't even hear about them looking at kickers, and it is hard for me to conceive that there isn't someone better than frost available. Danny Smith should at the very least be formally evaluating the options. After every game I keep expect to be reading articles about the punters we try out, but nothing. If we can't find anything better then fine, but they should at least be formally looking.

SpicyMcHaggis
11-25-2005, 06:29 PM
thats sorted by yardage on the year....he wasnt here the first 2-3 games.

Nope..sorted by average..the Cleveland and KC punter have more total yards than Frost

SpicyMcHaggis
11-25-2005, 06:33 PM
It's easy to say he should be replaced, but replace him with who? Groom didn't do any better, if he were still here we'd be saying the same things about him. We've pretty much just gotta ride it out and upgrade in the offseason with a free agent, draft a punter, or get Tupa back, but when you're sorting through guys off the scrap heap there isn't much else out there but the same caliber player.

Unfortunately that's the truth..once you lose your starting kicker or punter you're in trouble unless you luck out and find someone off the street that somehow got unnoticed by everyone else..actually i think we were lucky to not lose much in the kicker position when Hall was down

KMDeMuth
11-25-2005, 06:33 PM
Nope..sorted by average..the Cleveland and KC punter have more total yards than Frost

ahhh, ok i glanced over that...i was looking at this...

http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort/NFL/P-PUNTS/2005/regular?&_1:col_1=5

My point was to look at other stats, also look at # of punts in comparison.

EDIT: BTW, i am not vouching for frost or groom....i would like to see tupa back. Any punter we add is going to take some time to grow in the league, unless allready proven. My point with frost is that, he isnt "that bad"...he has more upside with the things he can do with this team right now then groom did. What if hall gets hurt again? going to go find another kicker late in the season?....frost can do it and he can hold. I dont want to replace tupa, but i like frost's ability for us right now with all the injuries.

SpicyMcHaggis
11-25-2005, 06:39 PM
My point was to look at other stats, also look at # of punts in comparison.

You're right..in terms of net average there is much worse than Frost..I think the bottom line is that punters in the NFL, with very few exception, aren't all that great, and the teams that have the good ones don't let them get away

redwolf1218
11-25-2005, 06:40 PM
it's hard to measure punters with statistics, because they have so many variables. directional punting, hang time, quick release, blocks, inside-the-20, number of returns or fair catches, etc. Tupa was pretty good in all areas, which is probably pretty rare.

KMDeMuth
11-25-2005, 06:40 PM
You're right..in terms of net average there is much worse than Frost..I think the bottom line is that punters in the NFL, with very few exception, aren't all that great, and the teams that have the good ones don't let them get away

I agree with ya, frost (and groom) have not been in the league long. going to take time for either to adjust completely and get comfortable.

whitskins
11-25-2005, 06:55 PM
True, but i would defer that question to gibbs and danny smith. They should have realized how important this position is and had some options. Or at least after his first couple games they should have been in the hunt. They could have signed someone to the practice squad to test out or something. All I know is i don't even hear about them looking at kickers, and it is hard for me to conceive that there isn't someone better than frost available. Danny Smith should at the very least be formally evaluating the options. After every game I keep expect to be reading articles about the punters we try out, but nothing. If we can't find anything better then fine, but they should at least be formally looking.

First, there's no way to say they haven't been looking. Just because the team doesn't bring in a bunch of people for a workout does not mean they have not explored a potential upgrade.

Second, you don't waste roster space by stashing punters on the practice squad hoping that one may end up being better than the other. You only get very few practice squad spaces and the value of those guys is that they actually contribute in practice. An extra punter would just sit there and do hardly anything. Also, with all our injuries and roster shuffling (Keasey, McCune, Robert Johnson) guys are coming up and down from the practice squad all the time to our active roster. That's not really an option.

Third, kicking and punting are two positions in the NFL in which if you are picking guys up off the scrap heap, they will be among the worst in the NFL. Just ask Dallas who has been shuffling kickers back and forth all year and still can't find a guy to consistently make field goals. I'm sure their fans want a better option as well but there just aren't many (if any) bona fide kickers and punters out there who aren't wearing NFL uniforms.

It's pretty obvious that punting has been a distinct weakness this year, but Frost beats out Groom because he is better at the nuances of punting which makes him more valuable. I'm sure the Skins would love to upgrade the position or get Tupa back, but when you lose your starting punter for the year then you're pretty much resigned to having a dud back there for the rest of the season. And just because you haven't read about any punting workouts being held at Redskins Park does not mean that the team has not explored potential upgrades.

rskinsfan10
11-25-2005, 06:58 PM
I'll admit that I wasn't that giddy over Groom once the season started. He seemed to not to be able to place his punts, so I wasn't down on bringing in Frost. I concede that Frost has been less then impressive. I still think that his placements are better, but when we need him to boom one, he seemingly cannot get it done.

whitskins
11-25-2005, 07:04 PM
I'll admit that I wasn't that giddy over Groom once the season started. He seemed to not to be able to place his punts, so I wasn't down on bringing in Frost. I concede that Frost has been less then impressive. I still think that his placements are better, but when we need him to boom one, he seemingly cannot get it done.

A sky high 50+ yard punt after our last drive against Tampa Bay sure would have helped our cause, wouldn't it? Hopefully there is a solid upgrade out there in the offseason that we can nab.

rskinsfan10
11-25-2005, 07:05 PM
A sky high 50+ yard punt after our last drive against Tampa Bay sure would have helped our cause, wouldn't it? Hopefully there is a solid upgrade out there in the offseason that we can nab.Exactly. His punt after the failure on 3&2 certainly didn't help matters.

silverspring
11-25-2005, 07:56 PM
First, there's no way to say they haven't been looking. Just because the team doesn't bring in a bunch of people for a workout does not mean they have not explored a potential upgrade.

Second, you don't waste roster space by stashing punters on the practice squad hoping that one may end up being better than the other. You only get very few practice squad spaces and the value of those guys is that they actually contribute in practice. An extra punter would just sit there and do hardly anything. Also, with all our injuries and roster shuffling (Keasey, McCune, Robert Johnson) guys are coming up and down from the practice squad all the time to our active roster. That's not really an option.

Third, kicking and punting are two positions in the NFL in which if you are picking guys up off the scrap heap, they will be among the worst in the NFL. Just ask Dallas who has been shuffling kickers back and forth all year and still can't find a guy to consistently make field goals. I'm sure their fans want a better option as well but there just aren't many (if any) bona fide kickers and punters out there who aren't wearing NFL uniforms.

It's pretty obvious that punting has been a distinct weakness this year, but Frost beats out Groom because he is better at the nuances of punting which makes him more valuable. I'm sure the Skins would love to upgrade the position or get Tupa back, but when you lose your starting punter for the year then you're pretty much resigned to having a dud back there for the rest of the season. And just because you haven't read about any punting workouts being held at Redskins Park does not mean that the team has not explored potential upgrades.


While i agree with most of your points, and i am sure the talent pool is thin, i still don't see this being addressed properly. And heck, we had 2 field goal kickers on our roster for like 4 weeks, why not add another punter. Should we use groom when we need to boom them and frost when we need to place them? I know that isn't realistic, but something has to be done.
It is a tough situation, but i really think his leg is losing us games and they should at least be working guys out. I believe there probably aren't many good field goal kickers, but i am sure there are some punters out there worth taking a look at.

Skinz4lyfe
11-26-2005, 07:40 PM
I'll admit that I wasn't that giddy over Groom once the season started. He seemed to not to be able to place his punts, so I wasn't down on bringing in Frost. I concede that Frost has been less then impressive. I still think that his placements are better, but when we need him to boom one, he seemingly cannot get it done.

Yep that pretty much sums it up right there. Also take into consideration we needed a guy who could kick the ball off because Novak sucked at kickoffs. That's why Frost is here and not Groom. However, I would like to see a good punter (Tupa or not). Before Tupa the only guy I can think of in recent memory is Matt Turk and we all know how his career in DC ended.

ChiefPowhatan17
11-27-2005, 09:21 AM
Groom was sent packing cause he had a hard time sticking it down with in the ten. He always kicked it into the endzone. But man that kid had a leg.