George W. Bush Makes Baby Jesus Cry

[Spence]

I await Bill O'Reilly's outraged reaction.What's missing from the White House Christmas card? Christmas.

This month, as in every December since he took office, President Bush sent out cards with a generic end-of-the-year message, wishing 1.4 million of his close friends and supporters a happy "holiday season."

Many people are thrilled to get a White House Christmas card, no matter what the greeting inside. But some conservative Christians are reacting as if Bush stuck coal in their stockings.

"This clearly demonstrates that the Bush administration has suffered a loss of will and that they have capitulated to the worst elements in our culture," said William A. Donohue, president of the Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights.

Bush "claims to be a born-again, evangelical Christian. But he sure doesn't act like one," said Joseph Farah, editor of the conservative Web site WorldNetDaily.com. "I threw out my White House card as soon as I got it."Source (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/06/AR2005120601900.html)

[fent]

i'm looking at the congressman's right now and it has a frickin' bible verse in it...these people need to get a life.

[akhhorus]

My christmas card from Bill Frist said Merry Christmas. At least there's one right thinking American in government!

[Spence]

i'm looking at the congressman's right now and it has a frickin' bible verse in it...these people need to get a life.Donohue says the card contains an Old Testament verse and no mention of Christ and is therefore unacceptable.

[fent]

Donohue says the card contains an Old Testament verse and no mention of Christ and is therefore unacceptable.

our base irritates me sometimes...

[Ibleedburgundy]

How dare the Bush administration declare war on Christmas like this!

[Spence]

You don't want to wish a Jew or a Muslim or a Hindu or [fill in the blank] a merry Christmas. No one should be offended by it, but it's a faux pas. Makes you look foolish. So sending out 'happy holidays' cards makes sense from that point of view. A simple solution would appear to be identifying the religion of each card recipient. That was easier to do when the White House sent out a few thousand of these things. The Bush White House, however, sends out more than one million cards. Getting the religion of all those people would be a pain in the rump.

[danny's stogie]

You don't want to wish a Jew or a Muslim or a Hindu or [fill in the blank] a merry Christmas. No one should be offended by it, but it's a faux pas. Makes you look foolish. So sending out 'happy holidays' cards makes sense from that point of view. A simple solution would appear to be identifying the religion of each card recipient. That was easier to do when the White House sent out a few thousand of these things. The Bush White House, however, sends out more than one million cards. Getting the religion of all those people would be a pain in the rump.

Would it really be that much of a pain? You could probably count the number of Jews, Muslims, and Hindus on the Bush holiday card list on Mordecai "Three-finger" Brown's mangled right hand.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Would it really be that much of a pain? You could probably count the number of Jews, Muslims, and Hindus on the Bush holiday card list on Mordecai "Three-finger" Brown's mangled right hand.


Orthodox Jews are warming up to Bush because he will kill more Jew-hating Muslims than the Dems.

[Keino]

our base irritates me sometimes...

When you make a bed you should expect to lie in it.........

[MoeRedskins]

"I think it's more important to put Christ back into our war planning than into our Christmas cards," said the council's general secretary, the Rev. Bob Edgar, a former Democratic congressman.


Was anybody else confused by this?

[swheeler]

Was anybody else confused by this?
I think it means the administration, as well as the offended religious-right base, has been very unChristian in its support of this war. It does sound kinda strange though.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Was anybody else confused by this?


No, it's perfectly clear what he is saying: Anyone who is pro-torture is not a good Christian. Thou shalt not kill. Our shock and awe campaign killed at least 7,000 innocent Iraqi civilians. That's two and a third 9/11's we inflicted upon them.

Jesus would not have started this war. Isn't that what being a good Christian is all about? Asking WWJD.

[CNYSkinFan]

Donohue says the card contains an Old Testament verse and no mention of Christ and is therefore unacceptable.

Donohue is a ****Censored By Spence****. He is the guy who was behind the whole Kerry is not a real Cathlolic campaign. I hate this guy.

The whole Happy Holidays "controversey" is such a ridiculous issue for the far right. It is an attempt to fire up the base and make an issue that really means nothing. Saying Happy Holidays instead of Christmas when you do not know the religious choice of the person is a safe and polite way of wishing well during the Holiday season.

If the righties really want to have this debate can we throw the fact into the mix that Jesus was NOT born on Dec 25th and that the early Catholic Church designated that date to coincide with the winter Pagan festival. That none of the Apostles actually wrote or discussed the date of Jesus birth or Death for that matter (hello Easter Bunny is a Pagan symbol of fertility).

I am a Christian and I choose to celebrate with other Christians on Dec 25th because that is what is commonly accepted as the birth of Jesus by all Christains. But I also recognize that not only do we not know that this is the actual birthdate and I can't get my panties up in a bunch of there are other holidays around the same season from other valid religions and/or trains of thought.

Get over it Donohue and O'Reilly, no one is biting.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Donohue is a ****Censored By Spence****. He is the guy who was behind the whole Kerry is not a real Cathlolic campaign. I hate this guy.

The whole Happy Holidays "controversey" is such a ridiculous issue for the far right. It is an attempt to fire up the base and make an issue that really means nothing. Saying Happy Holidays instead of Christmas when you do not know the religious choice of the person is a safe and polite way of wishing well during the Holiday season.

If the righties really want to have this debate can we throw the fact into the mix that Jesus was NOT born on Dec 25th and that the early Catholic Church designated that date to coincide with the winter Pagan festival. That none of the Apostles actually wrote or discussed the date of Jesus birth or Death for that matter (hello Easter Bunny is a Pagan symbol of fertility).

I am a Christian and I choose to celebrate with other Christians on Dec 25th because that is what is commonly accepted as the birth of Jesus by all Christains. But I also recognize that not only do we not know that this is the actual birthdate and I can't get my panties up in a bunch of there are other holidays around the same season from other valid religions and/or trains of thought.

Get over it Donohue and O'Reilly, no one is biting.


Oh, people are biting. I don't know how many people in NY believe in this "attack on Christmas" crap but down here lemmings are buying it big-time. All the righties on radio have people calling in saying "merry Christmas" but they don't say it in a sincere way, they say it in a malicious tone to give their imaginary Christmas-hating enemy a symbolic middle finger. Kind of like when people say "Sean Hannity, you are a great American." What they really mean to say is that liberals are NOT great Americans.

[CNYSkinFan]

Oh, people are biting. I don't know how many people in NY believe in this "attack on Christmas" crap but down here lemmings are buying it big-time. All the righties on radio have people calling in saying "merry Christmas" but they don't say it in a sincere way, they say it in a malicious tone to give their imaginary Christmas-hating enemy a symbolic middle finger. Kind of like when people say "Sean Hannity, you are a great American." What they really mean to say is that liberals are NOT great Americans.

I am not so sure about that. The true believers of right wing radio do not neccesarily reflect the opinion of the Country. The far right of the GOP want this to be a wedge issue like Gay marriage wo distract from not just the policies of the Bush administration but the public at large's anger over conservative missteps like Terri Schiavo, Social Secuirty, etc. etc.

A recent Fox News poll of it's own viewers show they are not buying it with only 42% of the respondents agreeing that there is an attack on Christmas and 48% saying they did not believe there was. SOURCE (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/12/01.html#a6143) (now before you go attacking the source, they do have a screen shot up showing the poll being broadcast on Fox News. Otherwise I would not have used this.)

If you can't win the viewers of Fox News, what is a troglodyte like Donohue and O'Reilly to do?

[Ibleedburgundy]

I am not so sure about that. The true believers of right wing radio do not neccesarily reflect the opinion of the Country. The far right of the GOP want this to be a wedge issue like Gay marriage wo distract from not just the policies of the Bush administration but the public at large's anger over conservative missteps like Terri Schiavo, Social Secuirty, etc. etc.

A recent Fox News poll of it's own viewers show they are not buying it with only 42% of the respondents agreeing that there is an attack on Christmas and 48% saying they did not believe there was. SOURCE (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/12/01.html#a6143) (now before you go attacking the source, they do have a screen shot up showing the poll being broadcast on Fox News. Otherwise I would not have used this.)

If you can't win the viewers of Fox News, what is a troglodyte like Donohue and O'Reilly to do?


keep hammerin' away like they always do.

[swheeler]

42% is a lot to believe that "season's greetings" or "happy holidays" is an "attack on christmas", even for fox

[BurgundyNGold]

42% is a lot to believe that "season's greetings" or "happy holidays" is an "attack on christmas", even for fox
Why should these clowns think that? Chanukah and Kwanzaa traditionally happen during the same time of year. So does Ramadhan -- or at least it has lately. And let us not forget Festivus for the rest of us. ;)

Now, if folks were sending out X-Mas cards, I could see them being offended. How else should a Christian take a big "X" crossing the word "Christ" out of the word Christmas?

[Spence]

Now, if folks were sending out X-Mas cards, I could see them being offended. How else should a Christian take a big "X" crossing the word "Christ" out of the word Christmas?I agree. I've always hated that X-mas thing. Looks hideous, sounds hideous, and seems vaguely anti-Christmas/Christian to me. A big sack of coal for whomever came up with that one.

[ryflan47]

I'd just like to point out, the title of this thread from the forums reads "George W. Bush Makes Baby" ...
i'm done

[danny's stogie]

I saw a commercial on TV tonight saying don't take the Christ out of Christmas. I will give them one thing, their wack job minds sure do work fast.

[RedskinsDave]

Oh, people are biting. I don't know how many people in NY believe in this "attack on Christmas" crap but down here lemmings are buying it big-time. All the righties on radio have people calling in saying "merry Christmas" but they don't say it in a sincere way, they say it in a malicious tone to give their imaginary Christmas-hating enemy a symbolic middle finger. Kind of like when people say "Sean Hannity, you are a great American." What they really mean to say is that liberals are NOT great Americans.

Seriously, change the channel. I assume if you listened to enough Alannis Morrisette songs you'd believe her definition of the word "ironic".

You saying "lemming" is even more hilarious.

[swheeler]

The Onion weighs in... (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/43438)

[SkinsKY]

I agree. I've always hated that X-mas thing. Looks hideous, sounds hideous, and seems vaguely anti-Christmas/Christian to me. A big sack of coal for whomever came up with that one.

X is actually the Greek letter Chi and is the first letter in the word Christ in Greek. In the acronym IX8YE (8 is supposed to be a theta I think) the letters stand for Jesus Christ, God's Son, Savior. I went to a small, conservative, Christian College where my Philosophy professors and Bible professors used and X in place of Christ with no problem for them or the rest of the student body, administration or anyone else.

Granted, I don't like it because I think it looks cheesy and sounds worse, but the idea that it is anti-Christian, is something that most likely has been just cooked up over time.

[BurgundyNGold]

X is actually the Greek letter Chi and is the first letter in the word Christ in Greek. In the acronym IX8YE (8 is supposed to be a theta I think) the letters stand for Jesus Christ, God's Son, Savior. I went to a small, conservative, Christian College where my Philosophy professors and Bible professors used and X in place of Christ with no problem for them or the rest of the student body, administration or anyone else.
So, since we're speaking English, wouldn't it be C-mas? And the acronym "IX8YE", is that the Greek equivalent of the Latin "INRI"?

EDIT: Actually, I checked and "INRI" was an acronym for the Latin "Iesvs Nazarenvs Rex Ivdaeorvm", which translates to "Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews". So it is not the same as the Greek acronym "IX8YE", which I couldn't find anywhere on English web sites oddly enough.

Granted, I don't like it because I think it looks cheesy and sounds worse, but the idea that it is anti-Christian, is something that most likely has been just cooked up over time.
I think the fact that it is the secular humanist crowd that is generally using and espousing the use of X-mas might have a little to do with it as well.

[Paintedbird]

My christmas card from Bill Frist said Merry Christmas. At least there's one right thinking American in government!

Bill Frist...hmmm. Isn't he indicted for something? Or...maybe...what did he do with those kittens he adopted as pets from the ASPCA?

[Paintedbird]

Orthodox Jews are warming up to Bush because he will kill more Jew-hating Muslims than the Dems.

Why does Bush hate Jesus?

[Paintedbird]

No, it's perfectly clear what he is saying: Anyone who is pro-torture is not a good Christian. Thou shalt not kill. Our shock and awe campaign killed at least 7,000 innocent Iraqi civilians. That's two and a third 9/11's we inflicted upon them.



Jesus would not have started this war. Isn't that what being a good Christian is all about? Asking WWJD.

Why do Republicans vote for someone who hates Jesus?

[redskin_rich]

X is actually the Greek letter Chi and is the first letter in the word Christ in Greek. In the acronym IX8YE (8 is supposed to be a theta I think) the letters stand for Jesus Christ, God's Son, Savior. I went to a small, conservative, Christian College where my Philosophy professors and Bible professors used and X in place of Christ with no problem for them or the rest of the student body, administration or anyone else.

Granted, I don't like it because I think it looks cheesy and sounds worse, but the idea that it is anti-Christian, is something that most likely has been just cooked up over time.
That's interesting, I always thought the X was a symbol for the cross, which is a symbol for Christ.

[BurgundyNGold]

That's interesting, I always thought the X was a symbol for the cross, which is a symbol for Christ.
Yeah, I've heard a lot of theories about that one. The cross is one. The "X" can be represented as a shorted version of "cris-cross", hence "cris-mas". SkinsKY's version is very interesting. I'm just not sure how much Greek played in all of this when the language of Christianity has been overwhelmingly Latin. In any case, I can certainly see how Christians may see this as secularization or commercialization or their holdiay. But then again, WTF is Santa Claus if the not the embodiment of commercialization?

[Spence]

That's interesting stuff, SkinsKY. Didn't know all that. Greek would have been the dominant language of Christianity for quite some time since as it expanded from the original Jesus cult, it did so almost entirely in the Eastern cities, where Greek was spoken.

When I hear X-mas spoken, though, I hear the X pronounced. So it sounds gruesome to me, as if someone is just refusing to say the word Christ.

[CNYSkinFan]

Yeah, I've heard a lot of theories about that one. The cross is one. The "X" can be represented as a shorted version of "cris-cross", hence "cris-mas". SkinsKY's version is very interesting. I'm just not sure how much Greek played in all of this when the language of Christianity has been overwhelmingly Latin. In any case, I can certainly see how Christians may see this as secularization or commercialization or their holdiay. But then again, WTF is Santa Claus if the not the embodiment of commercialization?

Or the Christmas tree which was directly adapted from the Pagan Winter solstice celebrations during Roman times. Or Frosty the Snowman....that has to be the Devil's work right there. Animated Snow man bastard, getting kids to dance......

[CNYSkinFan]

That's interesting stuff, SkinsKY. Didn't know all that. Greek would have been the dominant language of Christianity for quite some time since as it expanded from the original Jesus cult, it did so almost entirely in the Eastern cities, where Greek was spoken.

When I hear X-mas spoken, though, I hear the X pronounced. So it sounds gruesome to me, as if someone is just refusing to say the word Christ.

Seriously though.....who goes around saying "x-mas"? I always thought it was a way to save on typing and writing.

[Spence]

Christmas is a religious holidy AND a secular/cultural holiday. I don't mind having both expressed abundantly. [And I do like it abundantly since Christmas is freaking brilliant, whatever you think of Christ. Christmas IS brilliant. I've got Jewish friends who are ticked off their ancestors didn't think of it first.] What I don't like is when the secular/commercial aspects of Christmas overwhelm the religious and cultural aspects of it. Both sides are appropriate. I love getting a Christmas tree. I love the bright lights and the bells. I think Santa is deeply cool. I love "'Twas the Night Before Christmas" and the Grinch and Rudolph and all that extracurricular stuff. But there is more to Christmas than that. And no matter what Bill O'Reilly thinks, you can't protect Christmas by getting Wal-Mart to say "Merry Christmas" to everyone who passes thru the doors during the month of December.

Me, I'll be at Midnight Mass.

[Spence]

Seriously though.....who goes around saying "x-mas"? I always thought it was a way to save on typing and writing.I do hear it from time to time. I don't like seeing it in print either. I'm not going to go all Fox News and make a federal case out of it. I'm not really offended or outraged by it. I just don't like it. I don't think it means there is a plot by liberal humanists [hey, that's me!] to destroy Christmas. It just annoys me, that's all.

[BurgundyNGold]

Seriously though.....who goes around saying "x-mas"? I always thought it was a way to save on typing and writing.
I have heard that too, but why isn't Easter called E-Day or Halloween called H-Ween? I mean, do we really save THAT much time or ink shortening Christmas to X-mas? Even Benjamin Franklin would think that silly.

[BurgundyNGold]

Or the Christmas tree which was directly adapted from the Pagan Winter solstice celebrations during Roman times. Or Frosty the Snowman....that has to be the Devil's work right there. Animated Snow man bastard, getting kids to dance......
December 25th -- Jesus' celebrated birthday -- actually coincides with an existing Roman celebration, if I'm not mistaken. We could go on and on about religion that way, but I don't recall any Romans named R-lus.

[Spence]

I have heard that too, but why isn't Easter called E-Day...When the evil secular humanists succeed in destroying Christianity, they'll call it V-E Day.

[BurgundyNGold]

That's interesting stuff, SkinsKY. Didn't know all that. Greek would have been the dominant language of Christianity for quite some time since as it expanded from the original Jesus cult, it did so almost entirely in the Eastern cities, where Greek was spoken.

When I hear X-mas spoken, though, I hear the X pronounced. So it sounds gruesome to me, as if someone is just refusing to say the word Christ.
Supposedly, the inscription on the cross was written in Latin, Greek and Hebrew. There are 4 accounts of this in the Bible, however it is theorized that only Luke's account was specifically given in Greek.

Early Byzantium spoke Koine, a bastardized form of Greek through the 9th or 10th century. After which time, regional forces injected portions of Macedonian and several European languages into the local dialect, changing it into something very much different.

[BurgundyNGold]

I do hear it from time to time. I don't like seeing it in print either. I'm not going to go all Fox News and make a federal case out of it. I'm not really offended or outraged by it. I just don't like it. I don't think it means there is a plot by liberal humanists [hey, that's me!] to destroy Christmas. It just annoys me, that's all.
If you don't think there is a group out there wanting to destroy Christmas, then you're nuts. When it comes to wanting to change or destroy something, there is a group for everything.

[Spence]

If you don't think there is a group out there wanting to destroy Christmas, then you're nuts. When it comes to wanting to change or destroy something, there is a group for everything.You sorta just made my point for me. So what if there is a small group who wants to destroy Christmas? I'm sure there's also a small group that wants everyone to paint their backsides purple and hop to work on one foot. What difference does it make? Every poll I've seen indicates that about 85-87% of Americans are Christians of some sort and well over 90% celebrate Christmas. I'd call that a pretty successful holiday. I don't think Bill O'Reilly is defending anything except his ratings and his crusade against George Soros and Jon Stewart [always the Jews, I guess] over this nonsense is absolutely absurd.

The biggest threat to Christianity in this country is if jerkwads like Bill O'Reilly make the rest of us so embarrassed that we convert to Zoroastrianism just so we won't be lumped in with the mouth-breathers at Fox News.

[BurgundyNGold]

You sorta just made my point for me. So what if there is a small group who wants to destroy Christmas? I'm sure there's also a small group that wants everyone to paint their backsides purple and hop to work on one foot. What difference does it make? Every poll I've seen indicates that about 85-87% of Americans are Christians of some sort and well over 90% celebrate Christmas. I'd call that a pretty successful holiday. I don't think Bill O'Reilly is defending anything except his ratings and his crusade against George Soros and Jon Stewart [always the Jews, I guess] over this nonsense is absolutely absurd.

The biggest threat to Christianity in this country is if jerkwads like Bill O'Reilly make the rest of us so embarrassed that we convert to Zoroastrianism just so we won't be lumped in with the mouth-breathers at Fox News.
I don't know about threats to Christianity. Personally, I think they have a bigger problem with kid touchers and deciding if they want to allow gay priests (which apparently seems to be a related issue soince the priests keep touching little boys) than what that waste of space Bill O'Reilly says. I hate that guy. I'm insulted that I actually had to type his name.

I'm just talking about the crusade to take the Christ out of Christmas. Really, I don't care being agnostic and all (big surprise there, I know), but I am a traditionalist. Actually, the whole X-Mas thing was a MUCH bigger deal in the 70s and 80s. Many more merchants would put "Merry X-mas" in their windows or products back then. Now? We get it's more refined, Gatsbyesque cousin "Happy Holidays" instead. At least that one works and only insults the overly sensitive contingent of Southern Baptists (which, of course is an added bonus). Plus, what we lose in Christmas there, we gain in Channukah, Kwanzaa and sometimes Ramadhan.

[Spence]

I don't know about threats to Christianity. Personally, I think they have a bigger problem with kid touchers and deciding if they want to allow gay priests (which apparently seems to be a related issue soince the priests keep touching little boys) than what that waste of space Bill O'Reilly says. I hate that guy. I'm insulted that I actually had to type his name.Well, that's a Catholic issue, not an issue for all Christians, except insofar as it brings disrepute on Christianity in general. Virtually all mainstream Protestant churches allow priests/pastors to marry. My church, the Episcopal Church, allows women and homosexuals in the clergy. [My own rector is a heterosexual woman.] The faithful in New Hampshire elected an openly gay man to be their Episcopal bishop. He's been in a relationship with another man for decades. Nobody worries about him touching little kids.

I'm just talking about the crusade to take the Christ out of Christmas. Really, I don't care being agnostic and all (big surprise there, I know), but I am a traditionalist. Actually, the whole X-Mas thing was a MUCH bigger deal in the 70s and 80s. Many more merchants would put "Merry X-mas" in their windows or products back then. Now? We get it's more refined, Gatsbyesque cousin "Happy Holidays" instead. At least that one works and only insults the overly sensitive contingent of Southern Baptists (which, of course is an added bonus). Plus, what we lose in Christmas there, we gain in Channukah, Kwanzaa and sometimes Ramadhan.Companies are afraid of offending non-Christian customers so they use phrases like "Happy Holidays." So does the White House, by the way, on their Christmas cards. And the First Lady used the phrase repeatedly while shopping in Georgetown recently. I don't think very many reasonable people would be offended if they were accidentally wished a "Merry Christmas." People get overly-sensitive. If Christ is taken out of Christmas it'll be done by businessmen, not librulcommiepinkos. It's the companies that want to keep people focused on buying stuff. What do they care about Christ? What did Christ ever do for their stock price? X-mas, on the other hand, does a a lot.

[swheeler]

In my experience, xmas is simply a way to write out Christmas with less effort. I don't know why we don't do the same thing for other holidays. Maybe they get written less often, so it's not as big a deal. But the fact that most people I know read "Xmas" as "Christmas" suggests that if it is a plot to get rid of the "Christ-", its not very effective.