Patrick Ramsey

[skinsfan811]

Now, I'm not trying to say that there's going to be a QB contreversey...but I really wanna give Ramsey props for keeping the O flowing when Brunell had to come out.That pass to Moss was one of the bigger plays in the game.

Congrats Ramsey!

[Skins4life]

Ramsey played great. Gibbs wants 2 starters at qb on his team. This is why.

[Syllable]

Yes, way to go ramsey this will add some stock along with a chance for ramsey to proove himself.

[RedskinsVision]

This is why Gibbs will not trade Ramsey. Even next year. Campbell won't be ready til' 07 IMO.

[X-Factor13]

here here! bravo to ramsey for his play. he's as good as any first round quarterback in the upcoming draft, i'll tell ya that much!

lol

[OkieSkin]

Props to Ramsey. I was concerned when he came in, but he played great and protected the ball. Kudos!

[Fathead]

No controversy, Brunell is still the man, but kudos to Ramsey for playing great.

[44FAN]

Lots of heroes in this one, lots of game balls to be passed out. Ramsey and Ray Brown should be the first in line to get one.

[PennSkinsFan]

Ramsey did fine, but did absolutly nothign to change the situation. We wont do anythign in the playoffs without Brunell. Brunell is the starting QB of this team! Don't forget it!

[danny's stogie]

Good work Pat. No QB controversies however.

[MWballer]

Great job by PAT today now im glad we didnt trade Ramsey to the Jets right there. Lets go Redskins!!!!

[ryflan47]

Wow. I've had a rollercoaster of emotions about Ramsey. I used to love the guy, but with Brunell's great performance and his tendency of throwing games away (see Eagles last year), I began to doubt him. He's an excellent backup. Mark Brunell should be our starter, but I am comfortable with Patrick as our backup. I would welcome him back next year.

[Beast56Redskin]

Great game management by ramsay and (relatively) accurate throws cynched the game, especially with Moss's turbocharged td. that was priceless...

[tyrone_rush_fan]

I was very impressed. I've said some negative things about Patrick in the past, and I just feel totally disgusted right now, especially, considering what kind of person Ramsey seems to be. I don't feel worthy to post on this board for the rest of the season, but I'll continue to read everything. You guys are great, I'll be back for the draft.

[saviour]

Good work Pat. No QB controversies however.

Thats is all that needs to be said.

[RedskinRyan]

This is why Gibbs will not trade Ramsey. Even next year. Campbell won't be ready til' 07 IMO.

i think ramsey will be traded, and tehn we pick up a vet qb in free agency. coudlnt hurt to have two vets to show campbell the ropes. i'd loooove kitna, i think he helped alot with carson palmer.

[RedskinsVision]

i think ramsey will be traded, and tehn we pick up a vet qb in free agency. coudlnt hurt to have two vets to show campbell the ropes. i'd loooove kitna, i think he helped alot with carson palmer.

That would be the only way Gibbs trade him. But if Ramsey's value isn't higher than a 2nd or 3rd, don't do it.

[danny's stogie]

That would be the only way Gibbs trade him. But if Ramsey's value isn't higher than a 2nd or 3rd, don't do it.

If someone offers a first day pick for Ramsey you have to take it. A servicable backup can be brought it on the cheap to hold Mark's clipboard until Campbell is ready.

[Paintedbird]

Frankly, we would have lost today if Ram hadn't come in. Brunell's arm was bothering him before the leg injury, and he had lost his zip. Consequently, the offense had closed down. It was no coincidence we could suddenly run the ball when Ram went in and hit Moss long...the Giants not being idiots. I hope Brunell comes back for Philly and the playoffs, but the difference will be negligible. Either QB, if healthy, will shine.

[cal_junior]

Lots of heroes in this one, lots of game balls to be passed out. Ramsey and Ray Brown should be the first in line to get one.

Uh, hello, how about No. 89? He made great adjustment on the two long TDs, neither of which were perfectly thrown.

[funnyperson1]

While that was a nice pass, Ramsey didn't hit Moss long, he hit Moss for like 15 yards, and Moss hit Moss long.

Good job by Ramsey, I didn't know if we would hold on when I heard Brunell was coming out. Absolutely no controversy in my mind though.

[saviour]

Frankly, we would have lost today if Ram hadn't come in. Brunell's arm was bothering him before the leg injury, and he had lost his zip. Consequently, the offense had closed down. It was no coincidence we could suddenly run the ball when Ram went in and hit Moss long...the Giants not being idiots. I hope Brunell comes back for Philly and the playoffs, but the difference will be negligible. Either QB, if healthy, will shine.

I totally forgot about the shoulder injury and yes his arm did look weak but he hasnt had arm strenght for weeks now and he has still been getting the job done. I agree that we should be fine with either QB for the Eagles game but Brunell should be the starter in the playoffs if he is healthy.

[saviour]

Uh, hello, how about No. 89? He made great adjustment on the two long TDs, neither of which were perfectly thrown.

Moss made both of the QB's look good today. Our team's success will be based on whether Portis or Moss can have big games. If they do we will win most games.

[Chief Seeway]

Ramsey did exactly what a back up QB is supposed to do. The important thing now [just as he stated] is to get Brunell ready for the Eagles.

[Spence]

Ramsey ought to thank Moss for making his stats look good. What a great catch by Moss for that Ramsey TD pass.

[The Jake]

He's a Tulane boy just like yours truly, you know he's gotta be good. Roll Wave Roll

[The Jake]

Ramsey ought to thank Moss for making his stats look good. What a great catch by Moss for that Ramsey TD pass.

Don't dump on ramsey, Brunell only threw one pass over 10 yards against the cowboys and Moss made a ridiculous catch. neither one of these guys is John Elway

[NCskinsfanatic]

Ramsey did a good job and may have increased his trade value a bit. I still think he'll be traded this offseason and Brunell, Campbell and a decent late 20's/ early 30's vet will make up our QB depth chart. Ramsey did great today but I have to admit I was worried after the overthrow to Cooley and the 2 timeouts we wasted. Props to PR, nice to see him do well but this team will only go as far as Brunell takes 'em.

[Paintedbird]

While that was a nice pass, Ramsey didn't hit Moss long, he hit Moss for like 15 yards, and Moss hit Moss long.

Good job by Ramsey, I didn't know if we would hold on when I heard Brunell was coming out. Absolutely no controversy in my mind though.

I don't know for sure, but I think it was more like 25 yards in the air. Another point: I'm not at all sure Brunell's pass to Moss wasn't deliberately short and behind the defender. Moss makes great adjustments. These guys are good enough to take advantage of things like that...it's too consistent to be accidental.

[Paintedbird]

Ramsey ought to thank Moss for making his stats look good. What a great catch by Moss for that Ramsey TD pass.

I wouldn't trade Moss for any receiver in the NFL, but give our backup credit. Without his play, we would have lost today.

[skinsfan811]

I don't know for sure, but I think it was more like 25 yards in the air. Another point: I'm not at all sure Brunell's pass to Moss wasn't deliberately short and behind the defender. Moss makes great adjustments. These guys are good enough to take advantage of things like that...it's too consistent to be accidental.

They most likely go over the deep route to Moss and other recievers in practice.So maybe it's something they've noticed in films and tried to translate it to the field.Either way...it's a TD.And when that's the result, I don't give a hoot about how it was thrown, run, caught, etc.

[Blind-sided]

Good job to P. Ramsey. His release seemed quick and clean, didn't hold the ball to long either. Hail to the back up qb ,he got the job done.

[OCSKINSFAN]

Frankly, we would have lost today if Ram hadn't come in. Brunell's arm was bothering him before the leg injury, and he had lost his zip. Consequently, the offense had closed down. It was no coincidence we could suddenly run the ball when Ram went in and hit Moss long...the Giants not being idiots. I hope Brunell comes back for Philly and the playoffs, but the difference will be negligible. Either QB, if healthy, will shine.

I agree with this. Brunell has got us this far, and was certainly the better QB at the beginning of the season. The only controversy I can see is if Brunell's injuries impact his effectiveness (I also noted his passes have lost some zip at this point of the season). We learned last year that Ramsey is better than a hurt (hamstring) Brunell, with his resulting ineffectiveness. Also, it may well be that Ramsey has improved by observing from the bench to this point. A healthy MB should start. If he is not healthy, then a determination needs to be made as to which QB gives the team the best chance to win.

[smoak]

Ramsey was fantastic... He started shaky and some of the native got restless, but I started yelling about how we have to support our team. People settled down and Ramsey hit that HUGE pass to Moss!

Maybe he wasn't great, but I approve of BOTH our QBs this week!!! All three if you count Portis!

:D

[superbowl06]

Ramsey was excellent. He did a good job and only tripped when a false start was called. HOWEVER, I still hope we trade him. It's a waste to have two young first round picks as backup qbs. I think today seriously upped his value (I'd say probably a 3rd rounder), and I think we could use that pick more than we could use ramsey as a backup. There are plenty of solid backups out there who could be 3rd string for us, and we would be able to get a player to develop.

Again, great job Patrick. But after January I hope you're gone.

[ConradCountry]

He definatly upped his trade value today and another good performance will do the same.

[HanburgerBum]

I was very impressed. I've said some negative things about Patrick in the past, and I just feel totally disgusted right now, especially, considering what kind of person Ramsey seems to be. I don't feel worthy to post on this board for the rest of the season, but I'll continue to read everything. You guys are great, I'll be back for the draft.


Move over, tyrone, I feel like I need to join you. Nobody has been less kind to Patrick this season than I. I had felt that he was not even worthy of being 2nd string and had fallen behind Campbell. But, what a gutsy and clutch performance today by Ramsey! Led the Skins to two TD's when things became dicey in the 2nd half.

I had thought Gibbs was hasty in decling to discuss a Ramsey trade with the Jets when Pennington went down. But, the genius of this HOF coach is proven again. He somehow knew that Ramsey would be a factor down the road. Even if Patrick doesn't do anything else ever again for the Skins, his performance today justified Gibbs' decision to keep him around.

As for 2006, I guess Ramsey's play (or inaction) for the remainder of the season will play a large part in the decision to retain or trade him. For the long term, it is still difficul to visualize how he would fit in here (unless he pulls a Drew Brees). Patrick no doubt would leave via FA if he is not starting in 2006. Since trading him after this season may not fetch much, my guess is that Gibbs will keep him around for 2006 and let the chips fall where they may after the 2006 season.

[ppease]

I think Pat performed really good. When he came in I expected to see him dance around and wait too long to throw the ball and get sacked, or to stare down a single receiver and get picked. But what I saw was poise, checking second receivers and firing the ball decisively. He made good desisions. He thru the ball away instead of forcing a throw, he checked down to a second (or third) receiver and made a good touch pass. He seemed prepared to play and was poised and confident.

In fact, just maybe, he has matured a lot by working with Mark and the coaching staff without the pressure of being the starter.

I do hope that Mark's injury is not severe and he will be back for the next game; but after seeing Pat looking quite comfortable, I feel confident that Pat can and will lead us to victory in Philly. Good game Patrick.

[redwolf1218]

I thought Ramsey played great. i didnt like the 2 quick time-outs, but i think on one of them he was mad because Antonio Brown (or somebody) didnt go into motion or line up correctly. at least that's what it looked like. i thought he showed some good leadership and intensity out there. there was one pass that he threw away, and i actually thought that was one of his best plays as far as showing some maturity and patience. he used to never throw them away, but sometimes you just have to do that.

[GWBlitzST]

Ramsey was decent. He still looks like a rookie. Those two timeouts had me believing that the game was over. Not to mention that that pass was behind Santana and a good DB would have at least made a play on it. Clinton Portis threw as many TDs as Ramsey. He did a great job handing the ball off though. And his trade value just went up immensely. I really hope Brunell can play next week, though, as our entire season hinges on this one game. I also think that Campbell could have come in and done the same thing that Ramsey did yesterday.

[MWballer]

Unless some one offers us a second rounder for Ramsey we should not trade him. We now see how valuable a back up QB can be to a team. Why trade a good backup who knows the system, and has great character for less anything less than a 2nd rounder. Then pick up a vet QB whos new to the system. Unless we get proper value for ramsey i believe he stays around another year.

[MWballer]

Ramsey was decent. He still looks like a rookie. Those two timeouts had me believing that the game was over. Not to mention that that pass was behind Santana and a good DB would have at least made a play on it. Clinton Portis threw as many TDs as Ramsey. He did a great job handing the ball off though. And his trade value just went up immensely. I really hope Brunell can play next week, though, as our entire season hinges on this one game. I also think that Campbell could have come in and done the same thing that Ramsey did yesterday.

I seriously doudt Campbell would've done as good a job as Ramsey yesterday. Give Ram a little credit atleast!!!

[GWBlitzST]

I seriously doudt Campbell would've done as good a job as Ramsey yesterday. Give Ram a little credit atleast!!!He threw 7 passes, completed 5, and I recall 2 being screens to Betts and Cooley where they made plays to get the first downs. The pass to Moss could have gotten him killed, or been intercepted. It was not an accurate pass. Campbell is better.

[redwolf1218]

Unless some one offers us a second rounder for Ramsey we should not trade him. We now see how valuable a back up QB can be to a team. Why trade a good backup who knows the system, and has great character for less anything less than a 2nd rounder. Then pick up a vet QB whos new to the system. Unless we get proper value for ramsey i believe he stays around another year.
i still say he's worth a first round pick. if some team is sitting in the first round needing a QB and a few of the top prospects are gone, then Ramsey would be better than taking a chance on an unknown.

[danny's stogie]

One thing that I noticed and that I thought about after the game is that it will be difficult for the Skins to run the same offense they run with Mark if Pat is the starter next week. Pat doesn't work as well with the single WR sets, playactions, and bootlegs that are frequently called out of that formation. He is much more comfortable in the shotgun and with quick dropbacks. The one playaction they called while Pat was in, he faked the hand off then had a terrible time trying to get his feet set. He doesn't have Mark's footwork in this regard. It was a nice move on Pat's part throwing the ball away with both Cooley and Moss covered, but even if they had been open I question whether he would have been accurate on the throw because he would have been throwing off his back foot. Notice that Gibbs altered the gameplan a bit afterwards. They went to the formation where Portis splits wide, a formation that I believe was introduced in the Eagles' game, wasn't very effective, and hasn't been used since. It's going to be very interesting to see the gameplan next week if Ramsey is indeed the starter.

[CNYSkinFan]

Frankly, we would have lost today if Ram hadn't come in. Brunell's arm was bothering him before the leg injury, and he had lost his zip. Consequently, the offense had closed down. It was no coincidence we could suddenly run the ball when Ram went in and hit Moss long...the Giants not being idiots. I hope Brunell comes back for Philly and the playoffs, but the difference will be negligible. Either QB, if healthy, will shine.

Uhm 21 points before Ramsey came in disagrees with you.

Look I know you love ramsey and I love that he came in after Brunell got hurt na dplayed better then he has played in 4 years here. But to say we would have lost without Ramsey who underthrew a ball to Moss who made a great read (just like he did for Brunell) and turned it into a TD is ridiculous.

I want Brunell back for Philly, I am very nervous with Ramsey under center. But if Ramsey is under center I will rally behind Ramsey and hope he does well. Gibbs proves to the doubters he knows what he is doing in not trading Ramsey yet. Smart smart move. We cannot afford to keep all 3 next year, but for this year it is a wonderful GM move.

[The Jake]

Ramsey was decent. He still looks like a rookie. Those two timeouts had me believing that the game was over. Not to mention that that pass was behind Santana and a good DB would have at least made a play on it. Clinton Portis threw as many TDs as Ramsey. He did a great job handing the ball off though. And his trade value just went up immensely. I really hope Brunell can play next week, though, as our entire season hinges on this one game. I also think that Campbell could have come in and done the same thing that Ramsey did yesterday.

you're insane if you really think Campbell could've come in with the Giants down by four in the 3rd quarter of the biggest game of the year in his first action EVER in the NFL and win. Insane I tell you

[MWballer]

He threw 7 passes, completed 5, and I recall 2 being screens to Betts and Cooley where they made plays to get the first downs. The pass to Moss could have gotten him killed, or been intercepted. It was not an accurate pass. Campbell is better.

Campbell hasnt played a down in an NFL game. I doubt he wouldve noticed Brown was lined up wrong and would've likely ran the play anyway. Would Campbell have had the poise to stand in the pocket or would he have panicked on Ramseys first pass to Betts. Who knows if Campbell wouldve made the right read on the Moss play. Campbell's a rookie with no NFL experience there is no way he'd of been able to be as effective as Ramsey was. Campbell hopefully will be great in the future though!!!

[ConradCountry]

Ramsey was not that impressive, he had players make plays for him, the Moss play was 20% Ramsey and 80% Moss being the best WR in the game.

None the less Campbell would not have had the same success despite how the running game was working. Any Rookie will struggle, no matter when Campbell goes in he will struggle.

[PennSkinsFan]

Ramsey was not that impressive, he had players make plays for him, the Moss play was 20% Ramsey and 80% Moss being the best WR in the game.

None the less Campbell would not have had the same success despite how the running game was working. Any Rookie will struggle, no matter when Campbell goes in he will struggle.

I actually kind of agree here. Ramsey did nothing spectacular out there. Moss' TD was Moss. Ram did fine, but to make it out to be athat we shoudl keep him, start him, blah blah blah, face it, his trade situation is being boosted, Jason Campbell is the future here and Brunell will be the QB here again next year to give Campbell another season reading and watching nFL defenses. This changes nothing in the long term scheme of things, nor did he do anything to justfiy a change in logn term plan.

[GWBlitzST]

you're insane if you really think Campbell could've come in with the Giants down by four in the 3rd quarter of the biggest game of the year in his first action EVER in the NFL and win. Insane I tell you
I'm insane to think that Campbell could have chucked one up to Moss and hit Betts and Cooley with a couple of screen passes. Alright, I'm insane.

[MWballer]

I actually kind of agree here. Ramsey did nothing spectacular out there. Moss' TD was Moss. Ram did fine, but to make it out to be athat we shoudl keep him, start him, blah blah blah, face it, his trade situation is being boosted, Jason Campbell is the future here and Brunell will be the QB here again next year to give Campbell another season reading and watching nFL defenses. This changes nothing in the long term scheme of things, nor did he do anything to justfiy a change in logn term plan.

What would be the problem in keeping Ramsey here another year if we cant get proper trade value for him. He's a very serviceable backup and Campbell will most likely be the backup QB next year anyways if he cant beat Ram out in training camp for the #2 spot then let him hold the clip board for another year. No one on here is saying that Ram is our future were just saying that hes a good backup and Brunnell hasnt exactly been to durable during his tenure here. So it wouldnt hurt for him to stay around another year especially since this team has great potential next year. We wouldnt want to fall short because of an injury to our QB and Campbell not being ready yet.

[GWBlitzST]

What would be the problem in keeping Ramsey here another year if we cant get proper trade value for him. He's a very serviceable backup and Campbell will most likely be the backup QB next year anyways if he cant beat Ram out in training camp for the #2 spot then let him hold the clip board for another year. No one on here is saying that Ram is our future were just saying that hes a good backup and Brunnell hasnt exactly been to durable during his tenure here. So it wouldnt hurt for him to stay around another year especially since this team has great potential next year. We wouldnt want to fall short because of an injury to our QB and Campbell not being ready yet.
Backup QBs will be running at a premium this offseason. This is the year that we will really be able to get something for him, and we can't afford to keep these three guys on the roster next year. He has to go. Sorry.

[MWballer]

Backup QBs will be running at a premium this offseason. This is the year that we will really be able to get something for him, and we can't afford to keep these three guys on the roster next year. He has to go. Sorry.

Why does he have to go? Hes basically a vet now, been in the system for three years, and already has team chemistry. If we can get proper value i agree with u trade away. But if not then keep him for one more year and continue the continuity team we have going. Plus his experience in the system gives him a leg up on any vet we'd sign.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Uhm 21 points before Ramsey came in disagrees with you.

Look I know you love ramsey and I love that he came in after Brunell got hurt na dplayed better then he has played in 4 years here. But to say we would have lost without Ramsey who underthrew a ball to Moss who made a great read (just like he did for Brunell) and turned it into a TD is ridiculous.

I want Brunell back for Philly, I am very nervous with Ramsey under center. But if Ramsey is under center I will rally behind Ramsey and hope he does well. Gibbs proves to the doubters he knows what he is doing in not trading Ramsey yet. Smart smart move. We cannot afford to keep all 3 next year, but for this year it is a wonderful GM move.



About that pass. I'm starting to think that is the way Gibbs wants the QB's to throw it. The way Brunell threw it a few weeks ago and the way Ramsey threw it was almost identicle. So similar that I think it was intentional. We've used that same underthrow at critical moments in other games. Moss had a long 3rd down gain with a shorter version of that route a few weeks ago (is that the post-curl David Patten brought from New England?).

[MWballer]

Did anyone else see when Ramsey through the screen to Betts and instead of beeming it the way he used to he had a little bit of touch on the ball. I remember alot of ppl used to complain about him having no touch and that to me seemed like some progress.

[IHATEDALLAS'82'87'91]

It just reminded me of Kyle Boller the other night

[MWballer]

It just reminded me of Kyle Boller the other night
:lol1: lets hope hes nothing like Boller since he may have to start next weekend!

[localsportsfan]

I'm insane to think that Campbell could have chucked one up to Moss and hit Betts and Cooley with a couple of screen passes. Alright, I'm insane.

yes you are insane, what makes you think that Campbell is the future anyway? he hasn't even proved he can play at this level. and the pass to Moss was a good one. and for all you who keep saying it was underthrown, it was not. the ball was to the left of Moss so he adjusted to catch it. Ramsey did his job in giving the reciever a chance. If Brunell threw that pass you would be praising him. Ramsey is not only half way decent, he is a great guy and i would take him on my team anyday for is attitude.

[CNYSkinFan]

What would be the problem in keeping Ramsey here another year if we cant get proper trade value for him. He's a very serviceable backup and Campbell will most likely be the backup QB next year anyways if he cant beat Ram out in training camp for the #2 spot then let him hold the clip board for another year. No one on here is saying that Ram is our future were just saying that hes a good backup and Brunnell hasnt exactly been to durable during his tenure here. So it wouldnt hurt for him to stay around another year especially since this team has great potential next year. We wouldnt want to fall short because of an injury to our QB and Campbell not being ready yet.

The problem is the cap implications of keeping him. Next year we will tie up 9.646 in cap money on the QB position alone. Only one will start. Cutting or trading Ramsey will save 1.7 million. We are projected over the cap next year and need to trim some cap space.

This year the QB position takes up 5.159 of the cap or roughly 6.1%, assuming the cap next year is 95 million, the projected cap figure for QB is 9.646 million or 10.2% of the cap. Considering a TON of players have escalated base salaries next year, and that Brunell is the starter, It is better cap wise for us to trade/cut Ramsey and get whatever we can for him and sign a 3rd QB at vet or rookie minimums. Then we can use the extra 1.5 million to find other players.

[PennSkinsFan]

What would be the problem in keeping Ramsey here another year if we cant get proper trade value for him. He's a very serviceable backup and Campbell will most likely be the backup QB next year anyways if he cant beat Ram out in training camp for the #2 spot then let him hold the clip board for another year. No one on here is saying that Ram is our future were just saying that hes a good backup and Brunnell hasnt exactly been to durable during his tenure here. So it wouldnt hurt for him to stay around another year especially since this team has great potential next year. We wouldnt want to fall short because of an injury to our QB and Campbell not being ready yet.

Not a problem for me, but I think Gibbs wants to give Ramsey a shot to play somewhere else instead of sit here,when he is not the franchise future. I think a trade will be based more on Gibbs allowing Ramsey to seek an opportunity for himself.

[localsportsfan]

The problem is the cap implications of keeping him. Next year we will tie up 9.646 in cap money on the QB position alone. Only one will start. Cutting or trading Ramsey will save 1.7 million. We are projected over the cap next year and need to trim some cap space.

This year the QB position takes up 5.159 of the cap or roughly 6.1%, assuming the cap next year is 95 million, the projected cap figure for QB is 9.646 million or 10.2% of the cap. Considering a TON of players have escalated base salaries next year, and that Brunell is the starter, It is better cap wise for us to trade/cut Ramsey and get whatever we can for him and sign a 3rd QB at vet or rookie minimums. Then we can use the extra 1.5 million to find other players.

I wish I had this time on my hands like yourself...lol. And 1.7 mil is nothing. Your gonna cut a guy who has playing experience for a guy who isnt proven yet. I don't know if thats the way to go about this unless you get a 2nd rounder for Ramsey. Though none of this matters, we suck in the draft. Out of everyone in the draft last year, only Rogers plays and half the time doesnt even start. Were known for free agency, cause our draft had to be one of the worse in history last year.

[CNYSkinFan]

I wish I had this time on my hands like yourself...lol. And 1.7 mil is nothing. Your gonna cut a guy who has playing experience for a guy who isnt proven yet. I don't know if thats the way to go about this unless you get a 2nd rounder for Ramsey. Though none of this matters, we suck in the draft. Out of everyone in the draft last year, only Rogers plays and half the time doesnt even start. Were known for free agency, cause our draft had to be one of the worse in history last year.

when you are currently sitting at 20 million over the cap, 1.7 million is everything. And Ramsey does not want to back up one more year. he is being a good guy and for theat Gibbs will reward him with a ticket out of town.

A 3rd rounder for Ramsey is what I always thought. And I would be happy with it. And if you go to scout.com you can get quick salary cap information.

[localsportsfan]

when you are currently sitting at 20 million over the cap, 1.7 million is everything. And Ramsey does not want to back up one more year. he is being a good guy and for theat Gibbs will reward him with a ticket out of town.

A 3rd rounder for Ramsey is what I always thought. And I would be happy with it. And if you go to scout.com you can get quick salary cap information.

How about cut Brunell? He is way overpaid as it is. Not saying he hasnt done a good job this year, he has. But he is 35 and with bad knees and not so good arm anymore.

[MWballer]

The problem is the cap implications of keeping him. Next year we will tie up 9.646 in cap money on the QB position alone. Only one will start. Cutting or trading Ramsey will save 1.7 million. We are projected over the cap next year and need to trim some cap space.

This year the QB position takes up 5.159 of the cap or roughly 6.1%, assuming the cap next year is 95 million, the projected cap figure for QB is 9.646 million or 10.2% of the cap. Considering a TON of players have escalated base salaries next year, and that Brunell is the starter, It is better cap wise for us to trade/cut Ramsey and get whatever we can for him and sign a 3rd QB at vet or rookie minimums. Then we can use the extra 1.5 million to find other players.

Aite i see what you're saying about the cap but if we cant get proper value for the guy which i think is a 2nd-early 3rd Rounder then it would be more beneficial to the the team to keep Ramsey for insurance.

[MWballer]

How about cut Brunell? He is way overpaid as it is. Not saying he hasnt done a good job this year, he has. But he is 35 and with bad knees and not so good arm anymore.

Were not gonna cut Brunell he saved Gibbs life for christ sake! LOL plus Gibbs really likes the guy and has stayed by him through and through and hes becoming a favorite in the lockerroom and with the fans. Not to mention his play this season. Brunell will be here next year no question about that!

[GWBlitzST]

:bigteeth: How about cut Brunell? He is way overpaid as it is. Not saying he hasnt done a good job this year, he has. But he is 35 and with bad knees and not so good arm anymore.
I'm insane, huh. You sound like a pissed off Dallas fan.

[golongdude]

Maybe a Jets fan, too. They both love old QBs.

[The Jake]

:bigteeth:
I'm insane, huh. You sound like a pissed off Dallas fan.

don't get pissy with him, I'm the one who thinks you're insane. I'm sorry but I really think you aren't giving ram his due, he played through tons of ridiculous hits bc of the spurrier disaster for this franchise. he got benched when he got hurt in the 1st quarter of the 1st game of the year and handled it with complete class, so i think we as a fanbase can give the kid a break when he leads us to victory in the biggest game of the year. I don't understand how anyone could possibly think we'd win the game yesterday without ramsey coming in. No question Campbell is the better athlete, but better qb in gibbs' system at this point I don't think so. BTW when was the last time you saw him play? pre-season? Yea he'd definitely be a great qb right now coming off the bench, good call big guy

[KevSkin]

He threw 7 passes, completed 5, and I recall 2 being screens to Betts and Cooley where they made plays to get the first downs. The pass to Moss could have gotten him killed, or been intercepted. It was not an accurate pass. Campbell is better.
And you make this definitive statement based on what? Campbell's pre-season appearances with and against third-stringers? You think Campbell would be better. You hope he would be better. But you have no idea. None of us do (to state the obvious).

The fact is, Gibbs, will never put a rookie QB in that situation if he can avoid it. I'll bet that if Ramsey was knocked out while he was in there Gibbs would have gone to Brunell to see if there was any way he could make it back. To go with the rookie over Ramsey would be suicide, and this board, the press and all of DC would be on Gibbs if he did that and we lost. And rightfully so.

Go Skins! Go Ramsey! Beat Philly!

[DoGood]

And you make this definitive statement based on what? Campbell's pre-season appearances with and against third-stringers? You think Campbell would be better. You hope he would be better. But you have no idea. None of us do (to state the obvious).

The fact is, Gibbs, will never put a rookie QB in that situation if he can avoid it. I'll bet that if Ramsey was knocked out while he was in there Gibbs would have gone to Brunell to see if there was any way he could make it back. To go with the rookie over Ramsey would be suicide, and this board, the press and all of DC would be on Gibbs if he did that and we lost. And rightfully so.

Go Skins! Go Ramsey! Beat Philly!

Pretty good logical first post KevSkin. I agree and personally, I would rather have Patrick than pretty much every other second string QB in the league. But lets hope that Bru heals up nicely and is ready to take it to filthy next week. Nothing would be sweeter.

[FanFromArizona]

I don't like how we are focusing on PRam, 1 player out of 11. Yes, he is the brains of the offense, but he is just a puppet under the control of the coaches. I really do not care about who is the best of the 3 for next week's game, Joe will put the best player that he has available, we just need to rally around whoever it is out there.

Our game comes down to MANAGEMENT. Minimize the disastrous "t"s [I won't say the "T" word since we seem to be reducing our negative number each week] and make the adjustments that will allow us to win. We have had to make adjustments in each of our games the past 3 weeks [loss of Shawn Springs in AZ game, Randy Thomas in the Dallas game, and now the uncertain status of Mark Brunell]

Play to our strengths and play smart and I don't care WHO is out there, it is a TEAM that is out there, and it is the TEAM we need to support.

[whitskins]

To everyone who thinks we should hold on to Ramsey as our backup next year, what makes you think he would sit still and accept being a backup AGAIN on this team?

It makes sense that he would be a model citizen this year, as he wants his character perception to remain high, but I seriously doubt he would handle things the same way next year. I think the dude is a class act, but he has already demanded a trade from this team when we signed Brunell a couple years ago ( or at least his agent did). I don't think he would stand for being a backup for a third straight season.

[MWballer]

To everyone who thinks we should hold on to Ramsey as our backup next year, what makes you think he would sit still and accept being a backup AGAIN on this team?

It makes sense that he would be a model citizen this year, as he wants his character perception to remain high, but I seriously doubt he would handle things the same way next year. I think the dude is a class act, but he has already demanded a trade from this team when we signed Brunell a couple years ago ( or at least his agent did). I don't think he would stand for being a backup for a third straight season.

Hes under contract his agent knows what he has to do to get him out of here if his agent does his job and gets us a good deal for him then he'll likely be gone but if not he'll still be here. Ramsey and Brunell are good friends this is the only place he's known his whole NFL career, he seems like a real class act so if he has'd to be a backup again for this team i believe he'll do his job and do it well.

[helimech24]

Ramsey is gone after this season. He served his part this year as a back up, but they did not spend a #1 pick last year for a 3rd stringer. Ramsey gets a lot of props because he ran the offense well enough yesterday, but he did not make the greatest of throws, even to Moss. I like Ramsey to play against Philly, but that will be the extent for him unless Brunell is lost for the season. We will get probably a 3rd round pick, but hoping for a 2nd.

BTW, clearing 1.7 for a back up is exactly how you clear space in the cap. Just like letting go harris and bowen, who both make over a million a piece. Those three alone clear around 4 million in space.

[whitskins]

How about cut Brunell? He is way overpaid as it is. Not saying he hasnt done a good job this year, he has. But he is 35 and with bad knees and not so good arm anymore.

Cut Brunell?? Yeah, he's way overpaid, he only restructured his contract last offseason and then had a Pro Bowl caliber season this year. Yeah he sounds like a guy who should be cut.

Brunell gets hit low and sprains his MCL and now we should get rid of him because he has bad knees? I guess his bum knees are still good enough for the guy to scramble for several key first downs on broken pass plays. I'm glad the old man's knees didn't crack when he shook out of a sack by Osi Umenyora and then scampered 10 yards for a first down on what would be a touchdown scoring drive.

I could name ten guys on the Skins who you should cut before Brunell if you want to save some cash next year. And they wouldn't leave us incredibly vulnerable at the quarterback position.

[whitskins]

Hes under contract his agent knows what he has to do to get him out of here if his agent does his job and gets us a good deal for him then he'll likely be gone but if not he'll still be here. Ramsey and Brunell are good friends this is the only place he's known his whole NFL career, he seems like a real class act so if he has'd to be a backup again for this team i believe he'll do his job and do it well.

All Laveraneus Coles and Rod Gardner had to do was say the word in order to get all expenses paid for trips out of DC. Gibbs doesn't want guys who don't want to be here and I don't think Patrick Ramsey will want to be here another season as a backup, no matter how much class he has.

I don't intend this to be a slight at PR's character, if he demands a trade from the team this offseason then I really don't blame him and wish him well, but Gibbs has bent over backwards to get rid of malcontents before, I'm sure he'd be willing to do it for Ramsey if he wanted out as well and I think he will indeed want out. Just my opinion though.

[MWballer]

All Laveraneus Coles and Rod Gardner had to do was say the word in order to get all expenses paid for trips out of DC. Gibbs doesn't want guys who don't want to be here and I don't think Patrick Ramsey will want to be here another season as a backup, no matter how much class he has.

I don't intend this to be a slight at PR's character, if he demands a trade from the team this offseason then I really don't blame him and wish him well, but Gibbs has bent over backwards to get rid of malcontents before, I'm sure he'd be willing to do it for Ramsey if he wanted out as well and I think he will indeed want out. Just my opinion though.

I respect ur oppinion but i jus think that if we cant trade the guy for proper value, 2nd - early 3rd rounder, then we wont be getting rid of him since hes way more valuable to the team as a backup QB than some 4th round pick or something. Coles we got value out of that deal im pretty sure u agree lol. Gardner we got value out of that deal too a 6th rounder for the 3rd WR on the Packers-Carolina-Waiver Wire. Ramsey got more class than both those guys so i think it could work out either way. Hopefully we get value wateva we decide to do with the Ram.

[CNYSkinFan]

I respect ur oppinion but i jus think that if we cant trade the guy for proper value, 2nd - early 3rd rounder, then we wont be getting rid of him since hes way more valuable to the team as a backup QB than some 4th round pick or something. Coles we got value out of that deal im pretty sure u agree lol. Gardner we got value out of that deal too a 6th rounder for the 3rd WR on the Packers-Carolina-Waiver Wire. Ramsey got more class than both those guys so i think it could work out either way. Hopefully we get value wateva we decide to do with the Ram.

Yes but part of the value in trading Ramsey is the much needed Salary cap relief such a trade will do. The Redskins CANNOT keep over 10 million on one position when they have a viablke trade/cut option in Ramsey. It would inhibit any free agent signings not to mention Ramsey will WANT out. If we get a 2nd rounder I will do dances in the street, but the more likely scenario is a 3rd or 4th rounder since the team trading for him will have to either give him a fat contract or risk losing him in a year.

[Towson Skins]

brunell is our starting qb but I dont see him taking us anywhere bc he does not play to win. he plays not to lose. ramsey would be able to get us farther in the playoffs bc he will gamble and will make people respect the pass more even with a depleted receiving core opening up portis. however ramsey is also very dangerous to our team as well.

[helimech24]

brunell is our starting qb but I dont see him taking us anywhere bc he does not play to win. he plays not to lose. ramsey would be able to get us farther in the playoffs bc he will gamble and will make people respect the pass more even with a depleted receiving core opening up portis. however ramsey is also very dangerous to our team as well.

We are a running team, so we don't need a QB to win games. Instead, we need a QB that can run the team effectively during the game. Brunell does make plays when called apon, but isn't the gun slinger like Favre. I like the way he plays, ie. smart.

[CNYSkinFan]

brunell is our starting qb but I dont see him taking us anywhere bc he does not play to win. he plays not to lose. ramsey would be able to get us farther in the playoffs bc he will gamble and will make people respect the pass more even with a depleted receiving core opening up portis. however ramsey is also very dangerous to our team as well.

I have never seen so many fair weather fans base a QB switch on a purely adequate performance by a backup QB. Ramsey improved, but the pressure is what I feel. Our playoff hopes are on the line. Do you want the guy who constantly throws INT in the endzopne or the vet who led us to one of the greatest seasons in recent memory, including beting Philly earlier this year.

I side with Brunell...and I was a Ramsey apologist before the season started.

[whitskins]

I have never seen so many fair weather fans base a QB switch on a purely adequate performance by a backup QB. Ramsey improved, but the pressure is what I feel. Our playoff hopes are on the line. Do you want the guy who constantly throws INT in the endzopne or the vet who led us to one of the greatest seasons in recent memory, including beting Philly earlier this year.

I side with Brunell...and I was a Ramsey apologist before the season started.

Some people would just rather see their QB hoist up INTs in the name of "playing to win" (btw, quickly becoming one of the dumbest catchphrases in NFL history) than pay tribute to solid QB play that actually puts a team in a position to win ball games.

I admire what Ramsey did in the second half last week, but if you look closely, you can tell that his play was mimicing Brunell in many ways, and I give him a lot of credit for that. His long bomb he looked quickly for the single coverage, found it, and tore off a dart to Moss. On other plays he checked down to an outlet pass, or threw a screen. On one play he felt the pressure coming and smartly threw it away.

Just a year and a half ago Ramsey came into a winnable Giants game in the second half and threw three of the worst INTs I've ever seen a pro QB make. And although he did it all in the name of "playing to win", we ended up losing the game. Funny how those things work out. If Ramsey does indeed start on Sunday I expect to see a different quarterback and a much more successful one.

[helimech24]

Brunell is our QB, plain and simple. He is the one that got us here by making smart plays, and showing the "no give up, fight to the end" attitude. He threw an interception on the second drive, and took the Redskins down the field on the 3rd possession. That is what you want in a QB. Not one who forces bad throws, looking for the highlight reel big play.

[The Jake]

brunell is our starting qb but I dont see him taking us anywhere bc he does not play to win. he plays not to lose. ramsey would be able to get us farther in the playoffs bc he will gamble and will make people respect the pass more even with a depleted receiving core opening up portis. however ramsey is also very dangerous to our team as well.

well Trent Dilfer didn't exactly "win" games for the ravens in 2000 either. I'm not saying we have a world championship team (at least not yet) but on a team like the redskins as long as he doesn't make mistakes we should be able to win because there is so much talent around him. I do see your point, and agree somewhat, however there is no better option on our team or available to us elsewhere.

[Paintedbird]

We are a running team, so we don't need a QB to win games. Instead, we need a QB that can run the team effectively during the game. Brunell does make plays when called apon, but isn't the gun slinger like Favre. I like the way he plays, ie. smart.

We are not a running team and have never have been one excect in pieces of games. Among other weaknesses, we can't consistently pick up short yardage for touchdowns and first downs and frequently come up with with second and third with eight and nine because of a lack of power. Our running game is marginal, which should be obvious, but works, sometimes, because of the threat posed by Moss, Cooley, and Brunell, and, now, hopefully, Ramsey; and because of its breakaway capacity when the defense is tired.

Without great play at QB, we're dead; and you can take that to the bank. Luckily, we have Brunell and Ramsey. Moss has got to go over a hundred yards and put something on the board, Cooley needs six or seven grabs and a score or two. Royal's got to catch the ball. Portis has to complement all that. That's where we'll win or lose. Everyone else will hang tough--as always.

[helimech24]

We are not a running team and have never have been one excect in pieces of games. Among other weaknesses, we can't consistently pick up short yardage for touchdowns and first downs and frequently come up with with second and third with eight and nine because of a lack of power. Our running game is marginal, which should be obvious, but works, sometimes, because of the threat posed by Moss, Cooley, and Brunell, and, now, hopefully, Ramsey; and because of its breakaway capacity when the defense is tired.

Without great play at QB, we're dead; and you can take that to the bank. Luckily, we have Brunell and Ramsey. Moss has got to go over a hundred yards and put something on the board, Cooley needs six or seven grabs and a score or two. Royal's got to catch the ball. Portis has to complement all that. That's where we'll win or lose. Everyone else will hang tough--as always.

How can you say that when we are running 40 times a game during this winning streak. If the Skins run over a 100 yards, we won almost every game. If the Skins aren't a running team,then Philly isn't a passing team.

[whitskins]

We are not a running team and have never have been one excect in pieces of games. Among other weaknesses, we can't consistently pick up short yardage for touchdowns and first downs and frequently come up with with second and third with eight and nine because of a lack of power. Our running game is marginal, which should be obvious, but works, sometimes, because of the threat posed by Moss, Cooley, and Brunell, and, now, hopefully, Ramsey; and because of its breakaway capacity when the defense is tired.

Without great play at QB, we're dead; and you can take that to the bank. Luckily, we have Brunell and Ramsey. Moss has got to go over a hundred yards and put something on the board, Cooley needs six or seven grabs and a score or two. Royal's got to catch the ball. Portis has to complement all that. That's where we'll win or lose. Everyone else will hang tough--as always.

We're not a running team? Then how is it that we're #5 in the NFL in rushing offense? Or #5 in rushing attempts. Or #10 in yards per carry. Or #5 in yards per game. Or #9 in rushing first downs. Oh yeah, and our top RB just broke the franchise record for most 100 yard games in a season and is a week away from breaking the all-time Redskins rushing record. Yeah, sounds like a real marginal run game we have over here. Can we try and buckle down exactly which team you have been watching all season and have been mistaking for the Redskins?

And our red zone rushing is hardly a major problem, going into yesterday's game we were #7 in the NFL in red zone efficiency and we followed that up by going 3 for 3 in that category as well.

This team is coached by Joe Gibbs. It's a running team.

[Paintedbird]

Uhm 21 points before Ramsey came in disagrees with you.

Look I know you love ramsey and I love that he came in after Brunell got hurt na dplayed better then he has played in 4 years here. But to say we would have lost without Ramsey who underthrew a ball to Moss who made a great read (just like he did for Brunell) and turned it into a TD is ridiculous.

I want Brunell back for Philly, I am very nervous with Ramsey under center. But if Ramsey is under center I will rally behind Ramsey and hope he does well. Gibbs proves to the doubters he knows what he is doing in not trading Ramsey yet. Smart smart move. We cannot afford to keep all 3 next year, but for this year it is a wonderful GM move.

Patrick hit Moss for seven and led drive for seven more and also ran time off clock effectively. The three feats caused the Gints to forego two easy field goals and kept them pushed back and scoreless when they were moving the ball relatively well. Also, the shift in momentum that occurred when Ram hit Moss was huge-- the 2nd biggest play of the year (Brunell's pass to Moss being the first).

The chances of a rookie like Campbell coming in and saving the day like that were negligible. You are right when you say that Gibbs' keeping Ram was a smart, smart move. It could get us to the playoffs.

[Paintedbird]

About that pass. I'm starting to think that is the way Gibbs wants the QB's to throw it. The way Brunell threw it a few weeks ago and the way Ramsey threw it was almost identicle. So similar that I think it was intentional. We've used that same underthrow at critical moments in other games. Moss had a long 3rd down gain with a shorter version of that route a few weeks ago (is that the post-curl David Patten brought from New England?).


I think it's a option between QB's and Moss, if not actually called (which it may be). It's happened too many times with Moss this year for it to be accidental. My college team used to do it with certain receivers...I'm sure the pro's do too. Moss is the perfect guy to do it with.

[Paintedbird]

The problem is the cap implications of keeping him. Next year we will tie up 9.646 in cap money on the QB position alone. Only one will start. Cutting or trading Ramsey will save 1.7 million. We are projected over the cap next year and need to trim some cap space.

This year the QB position takes up 5.159 of the cap or roughly 6.1%, assuming the cap next year is 95 million, the projected cap figure for QB is 9.646 million or 10.2% of the cap. Considering a TON of players have escalated base salaries next year, and that Brunell is the starter, It is better cap wise for us to trade/cut Ramsey and get whatever we can for him and sign a 3rd QB at vet or rookie minimums. Then we can use the extra 1.5 million to find other players.

Will thee be still, then, with thy pound of flesh, rascal?

[PSUredskins]

Brunell is our starter when healthy and there should not even be a hint of Qb controversy because honestly Patrick played very well in the short time he was in the game. Anyone who wants to discount it because he only threw what 9 passes and 1 of them was helped by moss on an innacurate throw - needs to look at brunells stats earlier in the game. They are quite similar i think he had 12 pass attempts? 1 of them a TD on an underthrown/innacurate pass. (whether that was the intended placement of hte ball is unimportant - they both jsut threw similar passes for TD's)

That being said, ramsey doesn't bring hte mobility and footwork which brunell exhibits every game. Ramsey is not the Qb for our team because of it. Brunell and Campbell are both semi-mobile Qb's and that is why we drafter campbell rather then a pure pocket passer such as frye or aaron rodgers.

[PSUredskins]

OUR CAP IS GOING TO BE FINE!!!!

everyone always says how we're way over. Well we are WAY over every year. Then a few veterans restructure, we release some older vets who have been replaced and fill there spots with free agents/rookies. We sign some of the 3rd and 4th year players to their extensions so that we can once again backload the contract. It has been working that way for years.

1.7 million is not that much for a QB. 10% of your cap tied up in arguably the most important position? once again not an issue. I am a huge ramsey fan but i also think we should trade him -- for good value. 2nd or 3rd round should do something in the frist day. If we dont get that...then we keep him.

Our QB's cost to much? i beg to differ-

Lavar Arrington 2006 Cap Hit: 12.046 Million
Chris Samuels 2006 Cap Hit: 10.218 Million
3 QB's Combined 2006 Cap Hit: 9.656 Million

Samuels better start throwing some option passes or arrington darn well better get DPOY for those numbers....

[Paintedbird]

don't get pissy with him, I'm the one who thinks you're insane. I'm sorry but I really think you aren't giving ram his due, he played through tons of ridiculous hits bc of the spurrier disaster for this franchise. he got benched when he got hurt in the 1st quarter of the 1st game of the year and handled it with complete class, so i think we as a fanbase can give the kid a break when he leads us to victory in the biggest game of the year. I don't understand how anyone could possibly think we'd win the game yesterday without ramsey coming in. No question Campbell is the better athlete, but better qb in gibbs' system at this point I don't think so. BTW when was the last time you saw him play? pre-season? Yea he'd definitely be a great qb right now coming off the bench, good call big guy

You've got my vote for sane poster of the hour. Just want you to know that you have got it exactly right. Ram is not being given his due by certain wackos who don't appreciate that Ram has left little pieces of himself in stadiums all over the U.S. for their sake and now don't realize the greatness with which the Ram led the destruction of the Giants with his best friend, Mark Brunell.
That was an almost perfect pass to Moss-- thrown so only Moss would have a shot at it, the way they teach QB's to do it in the NFL when the receiver is essentially covered; and of his two incomplete passes for the day, one was a throw-a-away. As for the wacho belief that a rookie, Campbell, could have preserved a four point lead against the best team in the division for a half, well, try to understand that some of the wackos may be on something stronger than booze.

Yours in Medicine, Dr. Paintedbird

[Paintedbird]

We're not a running team? Then how is it that we're #5 in the NFL in rushing offense? Or #5 in rushing attempts. Or #10 in yards per carry. Or #5 in yards per game. Or #9 in rushing first downs. Oh yeah, and our top RB just broke the franchise record for most 100 yard games in a season and is a week away from breaking the all-time Redskins rushing record. Yeah, sounds like a real marginal run game we have over here. Can we try and buckle down exactly which team you have been watching all season and have been mistaking for the Redskins?

And our red zone rushing is hardly a major problem, going into yesterday's game we were #7 in the NFL in red zone efficiency and we followed that up by going 3 for 3 in that category as well.

This team is coached by Joe Gibbs. It's a running team.


You don't call yourself a running team when you have two receivers who are the best in the business and have put up over 2000 yards between them in fifteen games. Both of those receivers, by the way, will set franchise records, both for yardage, one for touchdowns; one is a first team pro bowler, the other is an alternate but the top vote getter at two positions.
Our QB, Brunell, has thrown for over twenty touchdowns and is one of the leading passers in football.

Portis has had a fine year, but to call the Skins a running team is ridiculous.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

You don't call yourself a running team when you have two receivers who are the best in the business and have put up over 2000 yards between them in fifteen games. Both of those receivers, by the way, will set franchise records, both for yardage, one for touchdowns; one is a first team pro bowler, the other is an alternate but the top vote getter at two positions.
Our QB, Brunell, has thrown for over twenty touchdowns and is one of the leading passers in football.

Portis has had a fine year, but to call the Skins a running team is ridiculous.

*scratches head*

We're 19th in the league in passing yards per game, but 5th in rushing yards per game.

Clinton Portis is going to set a franchise record for rushing yards, just like Moss will for receiving.

Portis, like Cooley, is a Pro Bowl alternate.

I'm not really sure where you're going with this.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

This thread is exactly the reason why it's much much better for everyone involved if Ramsey is gone at the end of the year...there are just too many people that cannot judge the situation objectively and are either in love with Ramsey or hate him...I mean everyone is going crazy about 5 completed passes, two of which were screens and one was the TD in which Moss made a great play a the CB a horrible one...in this thread only I've read that Ramsey should be cut/traded, Brunell should be cut(??!!), that Campbell is better than Ramsey(even without playing a down in the NFL in his life), that Ramsey is better than Campbell and Brunell, that Ramsey is worth a 1st rounder, a 2nd rounder, or anything we can get, that all of a sudden we are NOT a running team(:banghead: ), that we should keep all 3 qbs next year(which would mean either telling Ramsey to be the 3rd stringer, or picking a qb in the 1st round to have him be the 3rd stringer for 2 straight years)...guys, this is crazy...
I am not saying this based on my opinion of Ramsey, which by the way is that he is a good backup qb or a very average starting qb, and that he did a good job handling the situation against the Giants. I'm just saying that it would be better for all of us to put the Ramsey situation behind us and move forward without him so that everyone (and most of all Ramsey himself) can get a freash start. He won't be our starter next year, he isn't our qb of the future, and he would just be wasting away on our bench for another year if we kept him. I think it's only fair that we give him a shot to be successfull somewhere else.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

You don't call yourself a running team when you have two receivers who are the best in the business and have put up over 2000 yards between them in fifteen games. Both of those receivers, by the way, will set franchise records, both for yardage, one for touchdowns; one is a first team pro bowler, the other is an alternate but the top vote getter at two positions.
Our QB, Brunell, has thrown for over twenty touchdowns and is one of the leading passers in football.

Portis has had a fine year, but to call the Skins a running team is ridiculous.

Wow...dude don't take this personally, but this has got to be one of the craziest posts I've ever read here...
Let me take this step by step...
1)Of the 2 receivers that you mentioned, one is a receiver, the other is an H-back.
2)It is highly debatable whether Moss is the best receiver in the game, and there is no way that Cooley is the best TE/H-back in the game (although he is very good)
3)Cooley is not the top vote getter at two positions, because it's IMPOSSIBLE to be listed in two positions
4)Brunell is not one of the leading passers in football..he currently is 14th in passing yardage, 8th in passing TDs, 23rd in completion percentage and 11th in passer rating (he is having a very good year however, don't get me wrong)
5)How can you mention the fact that Moss and Colley are on the verge of breaking team records, yet conveniently forget that Portis is too?
6)Portis is not having a fine year, he is having a great year..he currently is 6th in the NFL in rushing yards and 8th in rushing TDs, and has already broken the club record for most 100 yard games in a season.
7)You also mention that Moss is a Pro-Bowler and that Cooley is 1st alternate, yet forget to mention that Portis too is first alternate. Why?
8)The Redskins currently are the #5 rushing offense in the NFL, having rushed the ball 489 times for 2032 yards, while we are the #19 passing offense in the NFL, having thrown the ball 456 times for 2978 yards.

So I think one of the following is true, you tell me which:
1)You have no idea what you are talking about
2)You are completely biased

[hail2skins]

We are not a running team and have never have been one excect in pieces of games. Among other weaknesses, we can't consistently pick up short yardage for touchdowns and first downs and frequently come up with with second and third with eight and nine because of a lack of power. Our running game is marginal, which should be obvious, but works, sometimes, because of the threat posed by Moss, Cooley, and Brunell, and, now, hopefully, Ramsey; and because of its breakaway capacity when the defense is tired.

Without great play at QB, we're dead; and you can take that to the bank. Luckily, we have Brunell and Ramsey. Moss has got to go over a hundred yards and put something on the board, Cooley needs six or seven grabs and a score or two. Royal's got to catch the ball. Portis has to complement all that. That's where we'll win or lose. Everyone else will hang tough--as always.

We're not a running team? Then how is it that we're #5 in the NFL in rushing offense? Or #5 in rushing attempts. Or #10 in yards per carry. Or #5 in yards per game. Or #9 in rushing first downs. Oh yeah, and our top RB just broke the franchise record for most 100 yard games in a season and is a week away from breaking the all-time Redskins rushing record. Yeah, sounds like a real marginal run game we have over here. Can we try and buckle down exactly which team you have been watching all season and have been mistaking for the Redskins?

And our red zone rushing is hardly a major problem, going into yesterday's game we were #7 in the NFL in red zone efficiency and we followed that up by going 3 for 3 in that category as well.

This team is coached by Joe Gibbs. It's a running team.whit, I don't think I could have said it any better. I don't know who this guys has been watching the last 4 weeks. I would say in that stretch that we are a more balanced team than we were before but we concentrated and stayed with the run. In the first half of the game against the Giants we were getting a lot of yards with the run but it was effective and in the 2nd half, the oline just exerted themselves and took over the line of scrimmage. I don't care what PaintedBird says, the pass to Moss was all Moss. That was a really high throw and Moss pulled it in. Ramsey threw that off his back foot and they don't teach QB's to do that. Some people just have to be ignored.

PaintedBird, watch it with the wacko comments because it's you that's making whacked comments.

[smoak]

Wow, I am on my out so I can't reall get into it, but it BAFFLES me that anyone could fathom we are not a "running team"??? Portis, Betts, and Rock were all called on this year... Heck, even Sellers has a carry. :)

IMO, I have been trying to get Skins fans to quit being so negative about the fact that we run and pound the middle alot?

I just think that if you polled a 100 different Skins fans, you'd get 100 different complaints.

[redskin_rich]

It's funny how the only QB controversy is among the fans. If Brunell can play, he will, if not, then it's Patrick. I'm confident either way.
As for next year, I don't care right now. We are on the verge of a run at the playoff's, in a weak NFC conference. Anything can happen, you just have to believe.

[CNYSkinFan]

OUR CAP IS GOING TO BE FINE!!!!

everyone always says how we're way over. Well we are WAY over every year. Then a few veterans restructure, we release some older vets who have been replaced and fill there spots with free agents/rookies. We sign some of the 3rd and 4th year players to their extensions so that we can once again backload the contract. It has been working that way for years.

1.7 million is not that much for a QB. 10% of your cap tied up in arguably the most important position? once again not an issue. I am a huge ramsey fan but i also think we should trade him -- for good value. 2nd or 3rd round should do something in the frist day. If we dont get that...then we keep him.

Our QB's cost to much? i beg to differ-

Lavar Arrington 2006 Cap Hit: 12.046 Million
Chris Samuels 2006 Cap Hit: 10.218 Million
3 QB's Combined 2006 Cap Hit: 9.656 Million

Samuels better start throwing some option passes or arrington darn well better get DPOY for those numbers....

I was waiting for the Ramseyites to start thrwoing this around. Yes Lavar is a big cap hit but in that cap number is a 6 million roster bonus. And in Samuels you have a 5 million or so roster bonus. Both roster bonus' will be guaranteed and thus the cap hit will be spread out over the entire contract. Thus their cap hits are actually 7.5 million and around 6.3 milllion respectively.

Now Ramsey will be a backup, Samuels and Lavar are starters, and previous and current pro-bowlers. With Campbell on the roster Ramsey becomes expendable. Campbell needs to move to the primary backup spot for him to grow as a QB. Ramsey is in the final year of his contract and don't be fooled WILL sign somewhere else after the contract ends with the Redskins getting nothing for floating his large cap number.

Lets all enjoy his final year as a Redskins because he is a great backup QB. Unfortunately that is what I think he always will be ala Gus Ferrotte, but a few teams may bite on him next year. If you think I am a Ramsey hater, think again. Look at my blog below and read the horrible things I said about Brunelll all summer long and right up untill the Dallas game. Unfortunately Ramsey never played well enough to keep the job and Brunell has given us the best year since at least 1999 and the best team since 1991. Yet you Ramsey lovers just don't get it. I almost feel sorry for you.....



almost

[CNYSkinFan]

You don't call yourself a running team when you have two receivers who are the best in the business and have put up over 2000 yards between them in fifteen games. Both of those receivers, by the way, will set franchise records, both for yardage, one for touchdowns; one is a first team pro bowler, the other is an alternate but the top vote getter at two positions.
Our QB, Brunell, has thrown for over twenty touchdowns and is one of the leading passers in football.

Portis has had a fine year, but to call the Skins a running team is ridiculous.

:banghead: :banghead:

I just don't know what to say here

Yes I do...how about some facts:

Game Passing Rushing W/L
Chicago 25/175 40/164 WIN
Dallas 34/291 25/104 WIN
Seattle 36/226 39/141 WIN
Denver 53/322 26/125 LOSS
Kansas City 41/331 28/101 LOSS
San Francisco 21/260 39/204 WIN
NY Giants 34/127 13/38 LOSS
Philadelphia 29/224 29/78 WIN
Tampa Bay 35/226 33/185 LOSS
Oakland 32/155 27/108 LOSS
San Diego 27/194 33/91 LOSS
St. Louis 22/156 40/257 WIN
Arizona 28/122 34/109 WIN
Dallas 20/163 40/171 WIN
NY Giants 19/233 43/156 WIN

Ok so what have we learned from this? Lets see

Washington has run more then it passed in 9/15 games gee thats 60% of the time

In games where Washington has run more then passed their record is 8-1

In games where Washington has passed more the run...uhm 1-5.

Washington is a running team. Get over it. When we are forced to pass to win we don't do it really well. When we control the clock and game by running it right down their throat we are one of the best in the league.

Someday I would like to get ahold of the drugs that you are smoking.

[The Jake]

You don't call yourself a running team when you have two receivers who are the best in the business and have put up over 2000 yards between them in fifteen games. Both of those receivers, by the way, will set franchise records, both for yardage, one for touchdowns; one is a first team pro bowler, the other is an alternate but the top vote getter at two positions.
Our QB, Brunell, has thrown for over twenty touchdowns and is one of the leading passers in football.

Portis has had a fine year, but to call the Skins a running team is ridiculous.

You want to try to call me out when you think the Redskins aren't a running team? posters have already run down the myriad of reasons why you are wrong so i won't waste my time, but please fill your posts with coherent thought next time.

[skins74]

Ramsey did a great job as the backup QB. He showed a little better touch on his passes than in the past.

[CNYSkinFan]

Ramsey did a great job as the backup QB. He showed a little better touch on his passes than in the past.

I absolutely agree here. Ramsey showed maturity and in the long run sitting down this year and watching may actually revive his career. Unfortunately not with us.

[GWBlitzST]

You've got my vote for sane poster of the hour. Just want you to know that you have got it exactly right. Ram is not being given his due by certain wackos who don't appreciate that Ram has left little pieces of himself in stadiums all over the U.S. for their sake and now don't realize the greatness with which the Ram led the destruction of the Giants with his best friend, Mark Brunell.
That was an almost perfect pass to Moss-- thrown so only Moss would have a shot at it, the way they teach QB's to do it in the NFL when the receiver is essentially covered; and of his two incomplete passes for the day, one was a throw-a-away. As for the wacho belief that a rookie, Campbell, could have preserved a four point lead against the best team in the division for a half, well, try to understand that some of the wackos may be on something stronger than booze.

Yours in Medicine, Dr. PaintedbirdThis from a guy who thinks that the Redskins aren't a running team. I'm not even listening to your garbage anymore. And Joe Gibbs didn't put Ramsey back the Bears game for a reason. He looked lost. Jason Campbell I am confident can throw a screen pass or a prayer to Moss just as well as Spurrier's golden boy.

PS I still think you're an Eagles fan.

[ryflan47]

This from a guy who thinks that the Redskins aren't a running team. I'm not even listening to your garbage anymore. And Joe Gibbs didn't put Ramsey back the Bears game for a reason. He looked lost. Jason Campbell I am confident can throw a screen pass or a prayer to Moss just as well as Spurrier's golden boy.

PS I still think you're an Eagles fan.

I don't think it was a prayer.

[OCSKINSFAN]

It's funny how the only QB controversy is among the fans. If Brunell can play, he will, if not, then it's Patrick. I'm confident either way.
As for next year, I don't care right now. We are on the verge of a run at the playoff's, in a weak NFC conference. Anything can happen, you just have to believe.

I only differ slightly from this. The controversy/issue is if Brunell can play, then to what degree? I would prefer a 100% Ramsey to a 70% Brunell.

[Skin-E-Dip]

THERE IS A HUGE UPSIDE TO BRUNNEL's INJURY. The entire NFL world will be watching to see if the Skins can beat Philly( a weak team). If Ramsey can show leadership and have a break out game, his value goes way way way up and with so many teams desperate for a QB this offseason, we will get a nice pick for him maybe

[ChiefPowhatan17]

Ramsey did exactly what he was suppose to. For all those that said he was done here and that you will never see him again. Sorry, but he'll be here next year too. Go Patrick.

[danny's stogie]

Ramsey did exactly what he was suppose to. For all those that said he was done here and that you will never see him again. Sorry, but he'll be here next year too. Go Patrick.

If someone offers a first day pick for Ramsey he won't be in BnG. If not, I agree, he's the backup. However, a servicable veteran backup can be had on the cheap to take his place and it would be unwise to keep a backup QB if he could be traded for a valuable draft pick.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

Well of course for a first round pick, but who would give up one. Only us. I don't know, we will have to see if Mark can come back, that hit looked devastating.

[Towson Skins]

even though i hate that ramsey is a backup i do not see us trading him to anyone. Gibbs always wants to have 2 capable starting qbs on his roster and I do not believe campbell is or ever will be a starting nfl qb. For all of you who think I am a fairweather skins fan bc I am praising ramsey now, I have never liked brunell even since his days in jacksonville. I still believe the team would have already clinched the division had ramsey been in all season.

[Syllable]

If ramsey plays well, we might see him next season instead of J. Cambell.

[skinfan43]

even though i hate that ramsey is a backup i do not see us trading him to anyone. Gibbs always wants to have 2 capable starting qbs on his roster and I do not believe campbell is or ever will be a starting nfl qb. For all of you who think I am a fairweather skins fan bc I am praising ramsey now, I have never liked brunell even since his days in jacksonville. I still believe the team would have already clinched the division had ramsey been in all season.
Like Pat a bit,eh?;)
What makes you believe that so strongly about Campbell? I don't think ANY of us knows how Campbell will pan out, but who knows QB's better than GIBBS?? (Just look at this season)
It's just too easy to say that Ramsey would have had this team Division Champs already...I prefer Gibbs' decision to yours, no offense.

[superbowl06]

i cannot believe the number of ramsey-lovers out there. less than half a game, and suddenly he's starter-quality. I don't think any other player has so many people out there searching for a reason to praise him. Certainly not portis (who many have claimed to be overpaid even though he's the focal point of the team and going for a team record). Not anybody on the defense. Moss hasnt been criticized yet, though maybe if he has a bad couple games people will jump in and talk about how overrated he is. Somehow, the ramsey lovers always come back. HE'S NOT A GOOD QUARTERBACK!!! Gibbs has zero faith in him, he has only shown that he can take hits and call timeouts well...
I don't want to be a ramsey hater, but the exorbitant praise heaped on him is pushing me anti-ramsey, if only for the sake of balance.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

even though i hate that ramsey is a backup i do not see us trading him to anyone. Gibbs always wants to have 2 capable starting qbs on his roster and I do not believe campbell is or ever will be a starting nfl qb. For all of you who think I am a fairweather skins fan bc I am praising ramsey now, I have never liked brunell even since his days in jacksonville. I still believe the team would have already clinched the division had ramsey been in all season.

I'm speechless...I really don't know what to say...:banghead: :banghead:

[Paintedbird]

You want to try to call me out when you think the Redskins aren't a running team? posters have already run down the myriad of reasons why you are wrong so i won't waste my time, but please fill your posts with coherent thought next time.

We are not a running team because we can be easily stopped on the ground without the heroics of Cooley, Moss, and Brunell in the air. Just the loss of Moss alone would stop Portis in his tracks. If we had Dilfer as our QB and no Moss or Cooley, Portis would be lucky to have 500 yards. We are a balanced team-- one that relies on both aspects of the offensive game. If we had to win by running or passing alone, out best bet would be to throw.
Moss is the finest weapon in the NFL and is now the second leading receiver in the game. Your pass/run stats are useless. We put games away with the pass, then kill time with the run when other teams are already beaten and/or exhausted. The pass stats aren't padded.

[SpicyMcHaggis]

We are not a running team because we can be easily stopped on the ground without the heroics of Cooley, Moss, and Brunell in the air. Just the loss of Moss alone would stop Portis in his tracks. If we had Dilfer as our QB and no Moss or Cooley, Portis would be lucky to have 500 yards. We are a balanced team-- one that relies on both aspects of the offensive game. If we had to win by running or passing alone, out best bet would be to throw.
Moss is the finest weapon in the NFL and is now the second leading receiver in the game. Your pass/run stats are useless. We put games away with the pass, then kill time with the run when other teams are already beaten and/or exhausted. The pass stats aren't padded.

Stop...just stop...please....

[ryflan47]

even though i hate that ramsey is a backup i do not see us trading him to anyone. Gibbs always wants to have 2 capable starting qbs on his roster and I do not believe campbell is or ever will be a starting nfl qb. For all of you who think I am a fairweather skins fan bc I am praising ramsey now, I have never liked brunell even since his days in jacksonville. I still believe the team would have already clinched the division had ramsey been in all season.
it...hurts...sobad...

[SpicyMcHaggis]

it...hurts...sobad...

:lol1: :lol1:
Man there's some priceless stuff in this thread....

[IHATEDALLAS'82'87'91]

Great Job Patrick. But Brunell is still first in my book.

[ryflan47]

:lol1: :lol1:
Man there's some priceless stuff in this thread....
Haha yeah this is an amusing thread...
TS, can you please provide an explanation?

[whitskins]

We are not a running team because we can be easily stopped on the ground without the heroics of Cooley, Moss, and Brunell in the air. Just the loss of Moss alone would stop Portis in his tracks. If we had Dilfer as our QB and no Moss or Cooley, Portis would be lucky to have 500 yards. We are a balanced team-- one that relies on both aspects of the offensive game. If we had to win by running or passing alone, out best bet would be to throw.
Moss is the finest weapon in the NFL and is now the second leading receiver in the game. Your pass/run stats are useless. We put games away with the pass, then kill time with the run when other teams are already beaten and/or exhausted. The pass stats aren't padded.

Seriously man, do you just post this stuff to amuse yourself? Portis did play last year without a pass game, he finished with 1315 yards in 15 games. It was one of the most impressive rushing seasons in Redskins history, especially considering the supporting cast on offense. This may be confusing though because I think you've been watching the Rams all these years and mistaking them for the Skins.

And the reason that Moss has been so dominant at times this year is because we are a running team that forces teams to put 8 in the box, so Santana exposes them for big plays when he gets man to man coverage. Joe Gibbs uses the run to set up the pass, always has, so the reason the pass game has been successful this year is because we're a running team.

Comments to the contrary make your scouting reports on Ramsey look like Pulitzer Prize material.

[PSUredskins]

I was waiting for the Ramseyites to start thrwoing this around. Yes Lavar is a big cap hit but in that cap number is a 6 million roster bonus. And in Samuels you have a 5 million or so roster bonus. Both roster bonus' will be guaranteed and thus the cap hit will be spread out over the entire contract. Thus their cap hits are actually 7.5 million and around 6.3 milllion respectively.

Now Ramsey will be a backup, Samuels and Lavar are starters, and previous and current pro-bowlers. With Campbell on the roster Ramsey becomes expendable. Campbell needs to move to the primary backup spot for him to grow as a QB. Ramsey is in the final year of his contract and don't be fooled WILL sign somewhere else after the contract ends with the Redskins getting nothing for floating his large cap number.

Lets all enjoy his final year as a Redskins because he is a great backup QB. Unfortunately that is what I think he always will be ala Gus Ferrotte, but a few teams may bite on him next year. If you think I am a Ramsey hater, think again. Look at my blog below and read the horrible things I said about Brunelll all summer long and right up untill the Dallas game. Unfortunately Ramsey never played well enough to keep the job and Brunell has given us the best year since at least 1999 and the best team since 1991. Yet you Ramsey lovers just don't get it. I almost feel sorry for you.....



almost

First let me start off by saying, while i do love ramsey...I in no way think he is a viable option as a starting qb with what he has shown so far, and that mark brunell is clearly our starter the instant he is healthy, if not before.

I do take offense that you immediately attack me about not "getting it." In my post i never said that brunell should be benched or that brunell isn't the right option. I never questioned how brunell did this year (however like many others i was Mistakenly calling for his head last year)

If you actually read my post thoroughly you will notice that I also pointed out that we can adjust veteran contracts and restructure them so that it is more cap friendly. This includes the re-structuring of these bonuses so that they are pro-rated and backloaded.....maybe you shouldn't immediately repeat what i said and call me a fool?

You want to talk about Lavar? I go to penn state so i absolutely love the guy. I know that there is absolutely no option in which we could cut him or trade him due to his contract and i would never want such a thing anyways. However, what brings you to label him our "starter." Yes he is the best, but he was also the best when he was completely benched earlier this year. He has been frequently injured, or just kept on the sideline for much of the year.
Where in that does he become our starter? because he started for 1 game - maybe 2? well with that logic ramsey started 1 game (CHi) maybe two (and philly if and only if brunell cant go) I am not saying that Ramsey's contrcat shouldn't be less as the back-up QB...only that his cap number respectively is not that high. Even for his position as a backup QB. I'm sure you will find that number similar to many backup qb's around the league.

Where does campbell make ramsey expendable? when has he shown that he is capable of stepping up the the Number 2 role. After all Gibbs felt it necessary to keep ramsey this year because he clearly wasn't expendable. Who is to say (besides the coaching staff) that campbell is ready.

I personally want us to move ramsey because i feel like he can be utilized by another team and he can therefore prosper elsewhere. However i dont want us to just get rid of something of value for nothing. When i buy a new car i dont just leave the old one on the side of the road.

READ MY POST before you start attacking me. In it i said everything above including many things you attempted to call me out on. I also said that i wanted to trade ramsey for a 2nd or 3rd round pick. You personally said 3rd or 4th round pick. Well we can just agree to disagree on his value. However I dont need to be discounted and have it implied that I am an illogical fan and therefore overly biased. I have said or done nothing of hte sort to earn this label. If that is what we are here for....to hand out labels....then i guess i can throw a few around as well

[PSUredskins]

on another note....Joe Gibbs has and always will be the coach of a running team. Yes, you need both the pass and the run to be successful. IF we didn't have portis and never ran the ball then moss would have his numbers just like if we didn't have a passing game portis wouldn't have his. The two of them together [rushing and passing success] are why we have won so many this year.

Our only bad loss this year is when we abandoned the run. Portis had 4 attempts for 9 yards and we lose 36-0. True we had to pass at that time because we were down by too much...but if we dont run....we cant win. Simple as that.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

We are not a running team because we can be easily stopped on the ground without the heroics of Cooley, Moss, and Brunell in the air. Just the loss of Moss alone would stop Portis in his tracks. If we had Dilfer as our QB and no Moss or Cooley, Portis would be lucky to have 500 yards. We are a balanced team-- one that relies on both aspects of the offensive game. If we had to win by running or passing alone, out best bet would be to throw.
Moss is the finest weapon in the NFL and is now the second leading receiver in the game. Your pass/run stats are useless. We put games away with the pass, then kill time with the run when other teams are already beaten and/or exhausted. The pass stats aren't padded.

Yes, and without the heroics of those brave tires, my car wouldn't go anywhere. I mean, really, name one team in the NFL whose running game wouldn't be stifled if you took away its top two receivers and starting quarterback.

[smoak]

Like Pat a bit,eh?;)
What makes you believe that so strongly about Campbell? I don't think ANY of us knows how Campbell will pan out, but who knows QB's better than GIBBS?? (Just look at this season)
It's just too easy to say that Ramsey would have had this team Division Champs already...I prefer Gibbs' decision to yours, no offense.

Dr. J - Haven't you heard? Everyone knows more than Coach Gibbs. They know how to call plays better. They know to take Winslow over Taylor. They know to NEVER trade a future pick for a scrub like Cooley. They know you never sign a veteran like Brunell. They know screen passes never work. They even know more about cap management.

So it is only fitting that they more about QBs.

:rolleyes:

My advice to everyone -- Enjoy the success every day. We haven't had it this good, but once in 13 years or so... And I still think that was a fluke for ole Norv.

[smoak]

on another note....Joe Gibbs has and always will be the coach of a running team. Yes, you need both the pass and the run to be successful. IF we didn't have portis and never ran the ball then moss would have his numbers just like if we didn't have a passing game portis wouldn't have his. The two of them together [rushing and passing success] are why we have won so many this year.

Our only bad loss this year is when we abandoned the run. Portis had 4 attempts for 9 yards and we lose 36-0. True we had to pass at that time because we were down by too much...but if we dont run....we cant win. Simple as that.


RFP - Didn't Portis leave the game injured? Not sure, but I thought I remembered he was banged up after that game? Either way, the Giants were world beaters that day and would have taken down the Colts or even the '72 Dolphins... It happens and we have moved on.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Seems like the better Brunell plays, the lower people's opinions of Ramsey get. Personally, I think Brunell is the better QB but Ramsey still has a chance to be a starter somewhere in the NFL. Ramsey has had flashes of brilliance (for those of you with extremely short memories, the Falcons game comeback two years ago, the Giants game last year when he went 19 of 22 for 2 TD's and zero INT's). I would take Ramsey over Eli Manning. In fact, if Ramsey were the QB in NY he would be having a field day with those recievers, that O-line-especially before the injuries-and Tiki Barber.

There are certain passes Ramsey can make that Brunell cannot. Purely because of arm strength. You haven't seen Brunell throw too many 10 yard outs-that's because they would get picked off. Ramsey moved the ball quite well against the Bears in that last drive before he got knocked out largely on out passes Brunell could not have made.

[funnyperson1]

Ramsey does have a laser arm, but I need to be shown over an extended period of time that he can aim that laser at the right team.

I was impressed by his play last week, and I know that given time with proper run support he can rip a defesne apart. However, when a play breaks down, he has trouble keeping a cool head (Remember his reaction when he took the 2nd timeout?). While I don't know how he would have played against Dallas the first 3 quarters on Monday Night, I do know he could not have won that game in the last 5 minutes like Brunell did. First of all, the 3 and 27 scramble would not have happened, and he did not have the touch to throw those deep balls (two of the most beautiful deep balls I have ever seen). Ramsey has the arm strength and I think that benefits him more in the short-mid range throws where he can make throws that are Favre-esque, and he also makes the same mistakes that Favre makes (especially on deep throws) except he makes a lot more of them.

[Patrick]

You know this thread started out as a congrats to Patrick Ramsey for coming in and doing a good job for a injured Mark Burnell with an end result that (as Redskins Fans) we were ALL happy with. …….. Somewhere in the 20 something post it started getting into Patrick vs Mark. AND that’s subject has REALLY been gone over several times (as well as the cap situation) since July.

I think it’s time to let this one come to an end. ….. sorry!

Again – Good job Patrick – you did as well as any backup could be expected to do!
Get well Mark – hope to see you ready to play come Sunday.

Go Skins – Let finish out the year on a high note…….. BEAT PHILLY!!!!!!