Sorry Denver! (Well, not really)

[dj_stouty]

When Denver traded their 2005 first rounder (#25 overall) to the Redskins for their 2006 first rounder, they thought for sure that they would reap the benefit of a top 5 or top 10 pick. They expected probably a 5 win season...and a nice blue chip prospect in return for their 25th pick last year...

Instead...the Redskins went out and made the playoffs, and in turn, locked the Denver Broncos into a 21st pick or later. Even if the Skins give them a 21st pick, its only 4 spots better than last year's pick, which isn't much "interest" if you ask me. Should the Skins win...the Broncos are guaranteed a similar to worse pick. Go skins!

I just want to remind everyone that Mikey Shannahan took a risk and got burned....

[ryflan47]

Agreed. He was thinking about cashing in on us, but instead we're cashing in on the future!

[RedskinRyan]

Agreed. He was thinking about cashing in on us, but instead we're cashing in on the future!

if campbell, develops, then yeah. but i will gladly go w/o a first rounder this year knowing we made the playoffs while teh eagles and cowboys are going home.

[greatest2]

WOW, YOUR MAKING THE DAY EVEN BETTER!!

[CNYSkinFan]

And I still think we got the better option on Bailey for POrtis.

[Emmanouel8]

Yeah if anything it helps me digest that trade better.

[PSUredskins]

Yeah...imagine if/when we go all the way and they downgrade their #25 pick to the #31/32 pick. They will have basically received a 4th round draft pick to drop 6/7 spots.....that will be the steal of the century.

[dj_stouty]

And I still think we got the better option on Bailey for POrtis.

So do I, Dustin...

The 1,500 yard season in DC proves it. No one gave Portis any respect when he came to the NFC East. They said he would be lucky to go over 1,300 yards, since the conference was very good against the run.

Well....I'm of the belief that 1,500 yards in the AFC West equals about 1,700 yards in the NFC East. If that is the case, then Portis's 1,500 yards in the NFC East is on par with any 1,700 yard RB in the AFC West. (Think Larry Johnson)

[whitskins]

This trade was another stroke of genius on Gibbs' part. We got the QB we rated #1 in the entire draft and got him into the system early while we have a veteran mentor showing him the ropes while having a Pro Bowl season.

I'm thinking back to the extreme pain I experienced reading some of the ridiculous threads and posts around draft time last year. People who said our front office was the worst in the league, we had the worst offseason in team history, etc. Now all those posts are dead. The clowns who live and die to spew such hate are gone.

I couldn't be happier.

[Emmanouel8]

Hey this thread got me thinking to cheer for the cowboy's to win. Yes, that way they lose draft position for no reason. Keep driving you idiots!!

[dj_stouty]

I couldn't be happier.

I agree, Whit!

I'm a big proponent of drafting a franchise QB and letting him sit a year or two to develop. We are lucky enough to let our future franchise QB sit the bench while we go to the playoffs! Nothing could be better. Jason is getting tons of experience right now.

I can't wait.....

[helimech24]

How many games did Champ miss this year? 2 games. And how many games did portis miss? NONE.

[whitskins]

I agree, Whit!

I'm a big proponent of drafting a franchise QB and letting him sit a year or two to develop. We are lucky enough to let our future franchise QB sit the bench while we go to the playoffs! Nothing could be better. Jason is getting tons of experience right now.

I can't wait.....

Yeah, the experience is great, but what is even more uplifting is that Campbell will be taking the reigns of a team with TONS of offensive talent. When JC is our starter the Dirtbags will be a dominant NFL unit (they are darn close already), Moss will be a great #1 option, we will have added a strong #2 WR, and have a 1500 yard workhorse in the backfield.

Is there any better recipe for success for this kid? If Gibbs and co. have graded him properly (and I have no reason to doubt that they have) then we could have a great QB situation for years to come. It's very exciting, I think we're entering a really bright future of Redskins football.

[skinsfaninCT]

I thought about this earlier tonight wouldnt it be great if we beat the broncos in the super bowl..

[helimech24]

I thought about this earlier tonight wouldnt it be great if we beat the broncos in the super bowl..

That would be unbelievable to happen. And that would be another vengence game for that 2 point win they had over us.

[LuvSkins17]

Im just glad that Portis stayed healthy this season. It was very important to our success. When given the opportunity,.... he produced. Congrats on his Francise Record. Im glad this goal was attained.

Thank's for Portis! (Though I still think we could have pulled the trade off without giving them the pick also.)

[44Riggo]

Yeah...imagine if/when we go all the way and they downgrade their #25 pick to the #31/32 pick. They will have basically received a 4th round draft pick to drop 6/7 spots.....that will be the steal of the century.

Do the playoffs have a bearing on draft position....I don't think they do, @ least it never used to be the case.

[helimech24]

Im just glad that Portis stayed healthy this season. It was very important to our success. When given the opportunity,.... he produced. Congrats on his Francise Record. Im glad this goal was attained.

Thank's for Portis! (Though I still think we could have pulled the trade off without giving them the pick also.)

It is a mood point now, we have one of the best complete backs in the league, and we only had to give up a whiney CB and a pick. Not to bad IMO.

[helimech24]

Do the playoffs have a bearing on draft position....I don't think they do, @ least it never used to be the case.

Yes they do. The superbowl champs get the last pick, and it works itself back from there.

[DoGood]

Im just glad that Portis stayed healthy this season. It was very important to our success. When given the opportunity,.... he produced. Congrats on his Francise Record. Im glad this goal was attained.

Thank's for Portis! (Though I still think we could have pulled the trade off without giving them the pick also.)

Portis' durability has been nothing short of amazing considering the BEATING he has taken this season.

But the fact that Santana Moss has not missed a single SERIES all season is incredible. He has not been the most durable guy during his career and he walks in here and plays every day. Incredible story.

[44Riggo]

Yes they do. The superbowl champs get the last pick, and it works itself back from there.

I looked it up, you are right.

[MONK_in_HOF]

This definitely came to mind after we won. I am sure Denver fans thought they were going to be in the top half of the first round when we were 5-6.

[WorldBFree76]

That's a nice icing on the cake :)

[GolfFreak]

When Denver traded their 2005 first rounder (#25 overall) to the Redskins for their 2006 first rounder, they thought for sure that they would reap the benefit of a top 5 or top 10 pick. They expected probably a 5 win season...and a nice blue chip prospect in return for their 25th pick last year...

Instead...the Redskins went out and made the playoffs, and in turn, locked the Denver Broncos into a 21st pick or later. Even if the Skins give them a 21st pick, its only 4 spots better than last year's pick, which isn't much "interest" if you ask me. Should the Skins win...the Broncos are guaranteed a similar to worse pick. Go skins!

I just want to remind everyone that Mikey Shannahan took a risk and got burned....

:goodpost:

And what's even better is that our 2006 1st round pick has been on this team for 1 year and has learned the offense and had time to watch Mark and Patrick run this system.

[Farmer Ted]

The local sports media (I live in Colorado) has been cheering hard against the Skins all year because they have our #1 pick this year. It's really driven me nuts. They're convinced that the Broncos fleeced us on both of the big trades that we made with them. I'm thinking that in a couple of years when they need a replacement for their mediocre Arizona Cardinals QB, they're going to be pretty upset that they passed on a total stud named Jason Campbell, who will be lighting it up for the Skins. I really hope that they get pick #32 next year.

[The Skinsinator]

Amognst all the playoff hoopla, this seemingly left my mind. Great thinking DJ. I do agree, Denver had to expect a bit more from this trade however Campbell still needs to work out (really work out) before I would totally concede this. However, the team certainly did their part this year. I'm so friggin pumped Im typing even faster than my 70 wpm.

[MONK_in_HOF]

The local sports media (I live in Colorado) has been cheering hard against the Skins all year because they have our #1 pick this year. It's really driven me nuts. They're convinced that the Broncos fleeced us on both of the big trades that we made with them. I'm thinking that in a couple of years when they need a replacement for their mediocre Arizona Cardinals QB, they're going to be pretty upset that they passed on a total stud named Jason Campbell, who will be lighting it up for the Skins. I really hope that they get pick #32 next year.

Fleeced? Not sure about that.

Love the screen name and sig. Farmer Ted is so classic.

[bigcmr]

I was going to bring this up because I remember before the draft last year. John Clayton on ESPN was saying Denver is going to cash in ''What are the chances of the Redskins going over 10-6?'' He said. Well I got news for him and Denver's FO. It didn't work out the way Denver or all the so call experts planned it now did it.

[Bushwacker]

I have been thinking this these past 4 weeks, if we make the playoff's then this trade we made becomes great. We swap 1st round picks with Denver and in return Denver get nothing and we get a QB to sit and learn the system for a year.

Hail Skins.:)


:goodpost:

And what's even better is that our 2006 1st round pick has been on this team for 1 year and has learned the offense and had time to watch Mark and Patrick run this system.

[whistleandthumb]

Just so we're clear on those keeping score:

We screwed Denver out of one of the best RB's in the league.

We screwed Denver on their acquired draft pick.


Hmm... that would seem to make it:

Gibbs ........... 2
Shanahan...... 0

[CowboyKilla]

Really helps that trade out a lot. We were counting on it being "not so high"
Mission accomplished.

[CapitalDefense]

Like you guys said, they thought this was gonna be a top 10-13, and possibly even top 5. With Plummer having his troubles before this year, they made this move so that they would possibly have a shot to trade both first rounders to move up and grab Leinart IMO. Well 2 picks after 20 will not get it done. The trade surely didn't work out for them, now for us, who knows? Campbell is at least 1 more full season, after this one, from playing for us with Brunell around.

[NamVet4]

I just want to remind everyone that Mikey Shannahan took a risk and got burned....

:goodpost:

I love it when Mark reaches back and grabs a nugget like this!
:)

[chad101]

Just so we're clear on those keeping score:

We screwed Denver out of one of the best RB's in the league.

We screwed Denver on their acquired draft pick.


Hmm... that would seem to make it:

Gibbs ........... 2
Shanahan...... 0

To be fair you need to remember Tatum Bell is part of the Portis deal and the fact that Denver had (2) RB's chasing 1000yd seasons shows they did not miss Portis.

On the draft pick that can not be determined until all is said and done....ie Campbell plays and we see who Denver drafts with the Skins pick this year.

[IowaSkinsFan]

So do I, Dustin...

The 1,500 yard season in DC proves it. No one gave Portis any respect when he came to the NFC East. They said he would be lucky to go over 1,300 yards, since the conference was very good against the run.

Well....I'm of the belief that 1,500 yards in the AFC West equals about 1,700 yards in the NFC East. If that is the case, then Portis's 1,500 yards in the NFC East is on par with any 1,700 yard RB in the AFC West. (Think Larry Johnson)

I'll take this one step further. I don't want to be looking ahead to next season, but I truly feel that Clinton now understands the blocking schemes well, witness the last 5 games of 100 yards each. I think next year we could be looking at a 1600-1700 yard season for Portis, assuming he stays healthy, knock on wood.

Another thing about Portis, he missed 3 games in either his first or second season in Denve and there were some concerns about his durability to last 16 games in the NFC east. After watching him run this year and some of the dirty tackles he had to absorb, I have no doubts that he is one of the toughest SOB's in the league.

[Axegrinder]

Portis has found love and respect in D.C..
I love the trade.

[in a completely different move]
I also love the way the new #24 plays.
I think that Springs is a much better player than Chump.

[Dept_of_Defense]

And I still think we got the better option on Bailey for POrtis.
Yeah I definently agree. Bailey has missed a lot more games than CP has.

[FanFromArizona]

Just another thought:

We currently rank for the #21 pick, if we win against Tampa Bay, doesn't that mean at the worst, the worst our pick will be is #25, right? 4 other teams would have lost.....

I would have to laugh, a #25 in 2005 for #25 in 2006 and a 4th rounder as interest?

:lol1:

[smoot]

Just another thought:

We currently rank for the #21 pick, if we win against Tampa Bay, doesn't that mean at the worst, the worst our pick will be is #25, right? 4 other teams would have lost.....

I would have to laugh, a #25 in 2005 for #25 in 2006 and a 4th rounder as interest?

:lol1:
we also gave them a 3rd

[Redskin4Life]

if campbell, develops, then yeah. but i will gladly go w/o a first rounder this year knowing we made the playoffs while teh eagles and cowboys are going home.
We aren't going without a 1st rounder?!?!? We traded up from 2006 to 2005... we GAVE up a 3rd and a 4th.

But still, I'm pretty happy that we could very easily give them a pick that's LOWER than the one they gave us.

[bball7980]

To be fair you need to remember Tatum Bell is part of the Portis deal and the fact that Denver had (2) RB's chasing 1000yd seasons shows they did not miss Portis.

On the draft pick that can not be determined until all is said and done....ie Campbell plays and we see who Denver drafts with the Skins pick this year.

I couldn't have said it better then that. Is the trade working out well for both teams? Yes. Have you seen the year Champ is having? Can you say possible Defensive Player of the year. He most likely won't get the award but he is in the running isn't he? If we don't do that trade we have Baily and Springs with Betts in the back field. Along with that what would we have gotten with the draft pick? I am not saying we haven't done well in the exchange but to say we clearly got the better of a team that is 13-3 is over stating it a bit don't you guys think?

On a lighter note I have loved every bit of the crow I have eaten in regards to Portis's durability. I did not think he would make it though an entire year and he has. Here's to you Portis on a great year. After all I am a Skin's fan even though I don't like how they run there team all the time.

[GWBlitzST]

With their first selection of the 2006 draft, the Redskins select--Jason Campbell!!!! Except he already has an NFL season under his belt. Suck it Denver. And didn't they essentially use our third last year to basically get Mo' Money Clarette? I mean, I know it was not the exact pick we traded them, but I believe that the draft insurance that we gave for Campbell led to another Shanny gamble that didn't pay off, the first day drafting of a common thug.

[Farmer Ted]

Yeah I definently agree. Bailey has missed a lot more games than CP has.

The local media also likes to ignore the fact that for every interception that Bailey's made (albeit, he's made some great ones), he's also gotten burned deep at least once.

[Skaggsrules]

Denver having two picks in the first round is good trade bait, so they still could land a blue-chip player if they want one, just trade there two firsts and move up...So it's not Shannan hasn't been "screwed" yet.

[OCSKINSFAN]

In my view, you can only evaluate trades with hindsight. At the time they are made, their purpose is to benefit each team in line with its specific needs. I think that happened here. Denver got what it wanted with Baily for its needs (and also Bell) and we got Portis. As a Skins fan, I'm sure happy with that, but Denver probably is also. As to the draft picks, we need to see how Campbell eventually does and who Denver picks to evaluate that (drafting QB's is a well know crap shoot). What I can tell you is the Jets got "fleeced" in the Coles for Moss trade, despite all the experts thinking the opposite at the time.

[RedskinRyan]

i think the portis trade worked out for both teams. they still got another rb in bell, and we still got a #1 corner with springs, who i like alot more than bailey.

[CNYSkinFan]

i think the portis trade worked out for both teams. they still got another rb in bell, and we still got a #1 corner with springs, who i like alot more than bailey.

Good points Ryan. Everyone talks about how Denver's running game never missed a beat due to them having Bell, Anderson blah blah blah, well our pass game didn't miss a beat with springs either.

Maybe someone could make an argum,ent that the extra 2nd rounder was a tad much....but I won't. I think Portis is worth EVERY DAMN PENNY!

[RedskinRyan]

Good points Ryan. Everyone talks about how Denver's running game never missed a beat due to them having Bell, Anderson blah blah blah, well our pass game didn't miss a beat with springs either.

Maybe someone could make an argum,ent that the extra 2nd rounder was a tad much....but I won't. I think Portis is worth EVERY DAMN PENNY!

we didnt miss a beat, i think we picked a few up instead. springs provided veteran leadership, and was a key member of our 2nd or 3rd ranked d last year, and was vital to our d again this year.

[BurgundyNGold]

When Denver traded their 2005 first rounder (#25 overall) to the Redskins for their 2006 first rounder, they thought for sure that they would reap the benefit of a top 5 or top 10 pick. They expected probably a 5 win season...and a nice blue chip prospect in return for their 25th pick last year...

Instead...the Redskins went out and made the playoffs, and in turn, locked the Denver Broncos into a 21st pick or later. Even if the Skins give them a 21st pick, its only 4 spots better than last year's pick, which isn't much "interest" if you ask me. Should the Skins win...the Broncos are guaranteed a similar to worse pick. Go skins!

I just want to remind everyone that Mikey Shannahan took a risk and got burned....
I mentioned that last night. How sweet it is to stick it to Shanny. It's like the cherry on top. We should go over to Orange Mane and poke at their ribs about it, lol.

[stonebraker]

We should go over to Orange Mane and poke at their ribs about it, lol.

OMG, im so there.

lolol

[redwolf1218]

And I still think we got the better option on Bailey for POrtis.
same here, and i like Portis better than the running they took with their 2nd round pick that year (i cant remember his name). Portis is 4th in the league in rushing yards right now, and the all time record holder for our franchise.

and besides, Jason Campbell might be our best QB right now even though he's not getting a chance to play. he's learning and waiting, which is perfect for his development, and he'll get plenty of good experience next year in the preseason and he should be comfortable in the system when the season starts.

[helimech24]

I mentioned that last night. How sweet it is to stick it to Shanny. It's like the cherry on top. We should go over to Orange Mane and poke at their ribs about it, lol.

All the crap that they give us for those trades and for it not to work out well would be awesome.

[santanadasavior]

I think that getting Cambell last year was great. I feel this way because of the recent play of our D-Line. I don't feel so bad about missing out on this years DE stock.

[bosshog001]

I've been following this closely since the trade and have to admit that I was not at all happy at the time. But my faith in Gibbs has been restored (it wiould be fully restored if the got off LaVar's back)

I also was a bit miffed when he traded up for Cooley, boy am I a fool.

[Syllable]

I couldn't have said it better then that. Is the trade working out well for both teams? Yes. Have you seen the year Champ is having? Can you say possible Defensive Player of the year. He most likely won't get the award but he is in the running isn't he? If we don't do that trade we have Baily and Springs with Betts in the back field. Along with that what would we have gotten with the draft pick? I am not saying we haven't done well in the exchange but to say we clearly got the better of a team that is 13-3 is over stating it a bit don't you guys think?

On a lighter note I have loved every bit of the crow I have eaten in regards to Portis's durability. I did not think he would make it though an entire year and he has. Here's to you Portis on a great year. After all I am a Skin's fan even though I don't like how they run there team all the time.
what a joke, please watch the games and not his picks. He and John lynch are one of the biggest legacy players in DB. His best game was at the redskins. During his tenure with the redskins he averaged 3 touchdowns on him a season, In denver he has 6 that i have seen with a probable 3 more . Something that makes me shake my head was during thankgiving day after his pick, we all saw him get stilled by Meshawn. He got burned by Tony G in the Cheifs game becuase he didnt read the play right. He get burned for a 50+ td from TO. Let the Gints win their comeback by loossing his footing to amani toomers awsome juking skills. He is still a good CB no doubt about it, but Portis's best days are now, and Champ hasnt had as great as a shutout year then his years with the skins.

In my oppinion we got the best out of what i was thinking a dumb trade to throw away a first round pick with so much talent this year. But, we wouldnt have got anything good since we are getting a 20+ draft pick anyways.

[akhhorus]

OMG, im so there.

lolol

The saddest thing is that they were considering it a great deal since the Skins' 21st pick(probable) is 4 spots better than the 25th pick they give us.

[ryflan47]

The saddest thing is that they were considering it a great deal since the Skins' 21st pick(probable) is 4 spots better than the 25th pick they give us.
If we advance, by how many spots does the pick change?

[Syllable]

If we advance, by how many spots does the pick change?
i think to 25 or so since denver lost second round right???

[MONK_in_HOF]

If we advance, by how many spots does the pick change?
At least 4. So at worst we would push on the first rounders exchanged and give them a 4th.

[akhhorus]

If we advance, by how many spots does the pick change?

It all depends on how far the Skins advance and who advances also. If a bunch of better teams lose, it could be in the high 20s. But thats not the point. They gambled that it would be a top 10 pick, and lost.

[bosshog001]

It all depends on how far the Skins advance and who advances also. If a bunch of better teams lose, it could be in the high 20s. But thats not the point. They gambled that it would be a top 10 pick, and lost.

Has this changed, I thought the picks wer set by the end of regular season, except for the superbowl winner and runner up in the past?

[akhhorus]

Has this changed, I thought the picks wer set by the end of regular season, except for the superbowl winner and runner up in the past?

Yeah, you're right. The Denver fans got me thinking the other way because they were speculating on the 21, 24, 28, 31 and 32 picks.

[MONK_in_HOF]

Has this changed, I thought the picks wer set by the end of regular season, except for the superbowl winner and runner up in the past?

Well that proves my post wrong then. It has been so long since the Redskins have been in this situation that I haven't paid much attention to it. So pick 31 or 32 it will have to be for Denver.;)

[santanadasavior]

I thought that it was the lowest winning percentage to teh highest winning percentage. In that case, it depends on the winning percentage at the end of the playoffs since some teams play extra games.

[Farmer Ted]

During his tenure with the redskins he averaged 3 touchdowns on him a season, In denver he has 6 that i have seen with a probable 3 more . Something that makes me shake my head was during thankgiving day after his pick, we all saw him get stilled by Meshawn. He got burned by Tony G in the Cheifs game becuase he didnt read the play right. He get burned for a 50+ td from TO. Let the Gints win their comeback by loossing his footing to amani toomers awsome juking skills. He is still a good CB no doubt about it, but Portis's best days are now, and Champ hasnt had as great as a shutout year then his years with the skins.


I totally agree. Here in Denver, they're obsessed with calling Champ a "shut-down" corner. Huh? He takes a lot of chances, and as often as he makes a great play, he gets burned for a long TD. And then he blames it on the safety, and says that he was passing off the receiver because the receiver was leaving his zone, and the safety was supposed to back him up. Whatever. Champ was a good player in DC, but he was never as good as #28, who was a true shut-down corner. Besides, if Champ is so great, why did the Broncos spend their first three draft picks on corners? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. After getting Portis, the Skins haven't blown all of their high picks on running-backs.

[PyroGenic]

It all depends on how far the Skins advance and who advances also. If a bunch of better teams lose, it could be in the high 20s. But thats not the point. They gambled that it would be a top 10 pick, and lost.

I understand that but do you think they have a chance to trade up with their 2 first rounders? It doesn't look like (by their record) that not getting a #1 pick in the draft hurt really bad. Everybody thinks that houston is gonna draft bush, but I think they should trade down. Arent the Broncos in a somewhat decent position to draft a top10 pick if they wanted to?

whatever, denver sucks. Woo the 'skins FO !

[helimech24]

Here is an up to date draft outlook thus far:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/scorecard/nflnews.asp?articleID=149460

[danny's stogie]

I understand that but do you think they have a chance to trade up with their 2 first rounders? It doesn't look like (by their record) that not getting a #1 pick in the draft hurt really bad. Everybody thinks that houston is gonna draft bush, but I think they should trade down. Arent the Broncos in a somewhat decent position to draft a top10 pick if they wanted to?

whatever, denver sucks. Woo the 'skins FO !

I think they'd be better off trading down. The Texans have so many holes and I can't see how Bush is going to turn them into a winner when they already have a decent RB and can't win because of crappy OLine play and a poor defense. Also, cap-wise it's getting to the point where having the number 1 pick is more trouble than it's worth. If the pick doesn't work out the team is stuck with a 50 million dollar cap albatross. A team can trade down pick up a couple of later first rounders for half the price and have double the chance of striking gold.

[MONK_in_HOF]

Well I am not sure if the "Draft King" is correct or not, but he says currently the Skins 1st round pick to Denver would be the 22nd selection. However if we lose and NE wins DEN would select 21st.

Also the "Draft King" doesn't think highly of our trade up to get Campbell.

Link (http://www.draftking.com/nfl/2006/mockdraft.shtml)

[guinness4health]

UPDATE......

by virtue of our victory this weekend against the Bucs and by the guaranteed loss of two 11-5 teams today the 1st round pick we sent to denver in the campbell trade is now the 25th pick!!!!...(same as last year, nice gamble denver...hahaha)

isn't the post season great

[ChiefPowhatan17]

They should've known better.

[Syllable]

Wow Those broncos.... I guess we win in the end..

[CFerro07]

I always liked the trade to get Campbell and now I love the trade. There are not many QB's in this years draft, Campbell now has a year under his belt learning the system, the man is 6'4 and runs a 4.6 or something, and at best we would be picking at the same position. Gotta love our future.

[bosshog001]

I checked last years order and it seems I was right, besides the superbowl, the order is set by regular season wins, head to head and strength of schedule. Ties are broken by advancement in the playoffs. So the only variability is whether we progress further than the Pats (1 spot difference) or make the superbowl.

Within a tied segment, non-playoff clubs are given priority over playoff clubs. Priority of playoff clubs within a tied segment are based on their advancement in the playoffs unless they participated in the Super Bowl. The NFL champion Patriots select 32nd with the runner-up Eagles 31st.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/8063536

2005 NFL FIRST-ROUND DRAFT ORDER
No. Club Win Loss Tie Percent Strength of
Schedule Opp. Record
1. San Francisco 2 14 0 .125 .488 125-131-0
2. Miami 4 12 0 .250 .555 142-114-0
3. Cleveland 4 12 0 .250 .590 151-105-0
4. Chicago 5 11 0 .313 .465 119-137-0
5. Tampa Bay 5 11 0 .313 .477 122-134-0
6. Tennessee 5 11 0 .313 .512 131-125-0
7. Minnesota
(from Oakland) 5 11 0 .313 .570 146-110-0
8. Arizona 6 10 0 .375 .461 118-138-0
9. Washington 6 10 0 .375 .477 122-134-0
10. Detroit 6 10 0 .375 .496 127-129-0
11. Dallas # 6 10 0 .375 .516 132-124-0
12. San Diego
(from N.Y. Giants) 6 10 0 .375 .516 132-124-0
13. Houston 7 9 0 .438 .504 129-127-0
14. Carolina 7 9 0 .438 .508 130-126-0
15. Kansas City 7 9 0 .438 .551 141-115-0
16. New Orleans 8 8 0 .500 .465 119-137-0
17. Cincinnati 8 8 0 .500 .543 139-117-0
18. Minnesota 8 8 0 .500 .480 123-133-0
19. St. Louis 8 8 0 .500 .488 125-131-0
20. Dallas
(from Buffalo) 9 7 0 .563 .512 131-125-0
21. Jacksonville 9 7 0 .563 .527 135-121-0
22. Baltimore 9 7 0 .563 .551 141-115-0
23. Seattle 9 7 0 .563 .445 114-142-0
24. Green Bay 10 6 0 .625 .457 117-139-0
25. Denver 10 6 0 .625 .484 124-132-0
26. N.Y. Jets 10 6 0 .625 .523 134-122-0
27. Atlanta 11 5 0 .688 .434 111-145-0
28. San Diego 12 4 0 .750 .477 122-134-0
29. Indianapolis 12 4 0 .750 .500 128-128-0
30. Pittsburgh 15 1 0 .938 .484 124-132-0
31. Philadelphia 13 3 0 .813 .453 116-140-0
32. New England 14 2 0 .875 .492 126-130-0
# Dallas selects before N.Y. Giants due to division tiebreaker (Giants led in head-to-head, defeating Cowboys twice).

[Fathead]

So we only truly screw denver after we beat Chicago in the NFC title game (I'm just joking around).

[BurgundyNGold]

I checked last years order and it seems I was right, besides the superbowl, the order is set by regular season wins, head to head and strength of schedule. Ties are broken by advancement in the playoffs. So the only variability is whether we progress further than the Pats (1 spot difference) or make the superbowl.

Within a tied segment, non-playoff clubs are given priority over playoff clubs. Priority of playoff clubs within a tied segment are based on their advancement in the playoffs unless they participated in the Super Bowl. The NFL champion Patriots select 32nd with the runner-up Eagles 31st.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/8063536

2005 NFL FIRST-ROUND DRAFT ORDER
No. Club Win Loss Tie Percent Strength of
Schedule Opp. Record
1. San Francisco 2 14 0 .125 .488 125-131-0
2. Miami 4 12 0 .250 .555 142-114-0
3. Cleveland 4 12 0 .250 .590 151-105-0
4. Chicago 5 11 0 .313 .465 119-137-0
5. Tampa Bay 5 11 0 .313 .477 122-134-0
6. Tennessee 5 11 0 .313 .512 131-125-0
7. Minnesota
(from Oakland) 5 11 0 .313 .570 146-110-0
8. Arizona 6 10 0 .375 .461 118-138-0
9. Washington 6 10 0 .375 .477 122-134-0
10. Detroit 6 10 0 .375 .496 127-129-0
11. Dallas # 6 10 0 .375 .516 132-124-0
12. San Diego
(from N.Y. Giants) 6 10 0 .375 .516 132-124-0
13. Houston 7 9 0 .438 .504 129-127-0
14. Carolina 7 9 0 .438 .508 130-126-0
15. Kansas City 7 9 0 .438 .551 141-115-0
16. New Orleans 8 8 0 .500 .465 119-137-0
17. Cincinnati 8 8 0 .500 .543 139-117-0
18. Minnesota 8 8 0 .500 .480 123-133-0
19. St. Louis 8 8 0 .500 .488 125-131-0
20. Dallas
(from Buffalo) 9 7 0 .563 .512 131-125-0
21. Jacksonville 9 7 0 .563 .527 135-121-0
22. Baltimore 9 7 0 .563 .551 141-115-0
23. Seattle 9 7 0 .563 .445 114-142-0
24. Green Bay 10 6 0 .625 .457 117-139-0
25. Denver 10 6 0 .625 .484 124-132-0
26. N.Y. Jets 10 6 0 .625 .523 134-122-0
27. Atlanta 11 5 0 .688 .434 111-145-0
28. San Diego 12 4 0 .750 .477 122-134-0
29. Indianapolis 12 4 0 .750 .500 128-128-0
30. Pittsburgh 15 1 0 .938 .484 124-132-0
31. Philadelphia 13 3 0 .813 .453 116-140-0
32. New England 14 2 0 .875 .492 126-130-0
# Dallas selects before N.Y. Giants due to division tiebreaker (Giants led in head-to-head, defeating Cowboys twice).
So which pick does Denver get this year? I thought it was 23. Does this mean its 25 now or not?

[Fathead]

So which pick does Denver get this year? I thought it was 23. Does this mean its 25 now or not?


It means nothing we do changes the pick unless we get to the superbowl. We are locked at 20 or so unless we get to the bowl.

[WABronco]

When Denver traded their 2005 first rounder (#25 overall) to the Redskins for their 2006 first rounder, they thought for sure that they would reap the benefit of a top 5 or top 10 pick. They expected probably a 5 win season...and a nice blue chip prospect in return for their 25th pick last year...

Instead...the Redskins went out and made the playoffs, and in turn, locked the Denver Broncos into a 21st pick or later. Even if the Skins give them a 21st pick, its only 4 spots better than last year's pick, which isn't much "interest" if you ask me. Should the Skins win...the Broncos are guaranteed a similar to worse pick. Go skins!

I just want to remind everyone that Mikey Shannahan took a risk and got burned....

Yea, us Denver fans have a running thread on our site about the continued worsening of our picks' positions.

It must feel a little better as a 'Skins fan to see that pick keep dropping and dropping, but the fact is we still have two first rounders. Denver can do a few things with those picks, including trading up for a premier pass rusher, or holding our cards and getting a guy like Gaines Adams (if he comes out) and Broderick Bunkley. Now I know you 'Skins fans would love to add a stud to your D-Line, or pick up a solid no. 2 receiver.

Lol, Shanahan didn't take a risk. We were looking for corners, and the guys he had targeted were all available at our 2nd and 3rd round picks. Denver got, arguably, the two best corners in the draft (and no, that's not a Carlos Rogers diss).

And Shanny sure didn't get burned. If anyone knows about getting burned, it should be the 'Skins FO. Denver has screwed Washington twice in the last two seasons. Portis for Bailey was a good swap, but your GM gave Denver an extra 2nd rounder (Tatum Bell, that was smart). Then, in the most recent trade, Washington gave Denver this years first, this years fourth, and a third rounder in last years (Karl Paymah) draft FOR Jason Campbell...

Washington could win the super bowl, and Denver would still come out in front...

[redwolf1218]

Washington could win the super bowl, and Denver would still come out in front...
that depends on how Campbell ends up.

as far as the Champ/Portis trade is concerned, you guys needed a corner, you drafted one in the 1st round 3 years in a row, all busts. we all love Portis, and i'm not all that impressed with Tatum Bell either.
so that's a fair deal. the pick was thrown in to make it happen or else you would have traded with someone else.

[WABronco]

that depends on how Campbell ends up.

as far as the Champ/Portis trade is concerned, you guys needed a corner, you drafted one in the 1st round 3 years in a row, all busts. we all love Portis, and i'm not all that impressed with Tatum Bell either.
so that's a fair deal. the pick was thrown in to make it happen or else you would have traded with someone else.

Well, that's a 'Skins fan's perspective...

I'm happy with the trades, that's for sure.

[redskin_rich]

And Shanny sure didn't get burned. If anyone knows about getting burned, it should be the 'Skins FO. Denver has screwed Washington twice in the last two seasons. Portis for Bailey was a good swap, but your GM gave Denver an extra 2nd rounder (Tatum Bell, that was smart). Then, in the most recent trade, Washington gave Denver this years first, this years fourth, and a third rounder in last years (Karl Paymah) draft FOR Jason Campbell...

Washington could win the super bowl, and Denver would still come out in front...
I don't think either side got burned in the Portis/Bailey trade, you all got what you needed and so did we. Sure Denver got our 2nd rd pick but you have to remember that Bailey was an unsigned FA that wasn't coming back and wasn't wanted at the price he was demanding.

As for the 1st, 3rd and 4th round picks we sent you all for the 25th to take Campbell, time will tell. If he becomes a solid to pro bowl starter for us for the next ten years, then it will be great for us. Right now it is good for you too. It is too early to say we got burned.

And your last statement is laughable, there is no coming in front of a Super Bowl winner. I would rather see no playoffs and 1 Super Bowl in 5 years than make the playoffs every year but lose.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Yea, us Denver fans have a running thread on our site about the continued worsening of our picks' positions.

It must feel a little better as a 'Skins fan to see that pick keep dropping and dropping, but the fact is we still have two first rounders. Denver can do a few things with those picks, including trading up for a premier pass rusher, or holding our cards and getting a guy like Gaines Adams (if he comes out) and Broderick Bunkley. Now I know you 'Skins fans would love to add a stud to your D-Line, or pick up a solid no. 2 receiver.

Lol, Shanahan didn't take a risk. We were looking for corners, and the guys he had targeted were all available at our 2nd and 3rd round picks. Denver got, arguably, the two best corners in the draft (and no, that's not a Carlos Rogers diss).

And Shanny sure didn't get burned. If anyone knows about getting burned, it should be the 'Skins FO. Denver has screwed Washington twice in the last two seasons. Portis for Bailey was a good swap, but your GM gave Denver an extra 2nd rounder (Tatum Bell, that was smart). Then, in the most recent trade, Washington gave Denver this years first, this years fourth, and a third rounder in last years (Karl Paymah) draft FOR Jason Campbell...

Washington could win the super bowl, and Denver would still come out in front...


I don't know where you get that idea. The Redskins FO has done fine especially in the last two years. We love having Clinton Portis and we would make that trade again given the chance. We got Santana Moss, Marcus Washington, Sean Taylor, Carlos Rogers, Mark Brunell, Chris Cooley, Casey Rabach and Randy Thomas through our FO. They rule as far as I'm concerned. We are in the second round of the playoffs, just like the Broncos. Can't say I feel sorry for us. Also, you guys are $30 million over the cap in 2006. We're under $8 million over the cap.

That said, I agree with you that Shanahan did not get burned. Why does one side of a trade automatically have to "get burned" in your mind? I think the trades were mutually beneficial. You will not find anyone around here that regrets the trades.

[redwolf1218]

Well, that's a 'Skins fan's perspective...

I'm happy with the trades, that's for sure.
well this is a Redskins board, so i'd assume you'd be here looking for a 'skins fan's perspective.

[WABronco]

And your last statement is laughable, there is no coming in front of a Super Bowl winner. I would rather see no playoffs and 1 Super Bowl in 5 years than make the playoffs every year but lose.

That goes without saying, but I was talking in terms of draft position, not trophies. Of course I'd rather win the SB than get a lower pick...

[WABronco]

well this is a Redskins board, so i'd assume you'd be here looking for a 'skins fan's perspective.

That's right...

[WABronco]

I don't know where you get that idea. The Redskins FO has done fine especially in the last two years. We love having Clinton Portis and we would make that trade again given the chance. We got Santana Moss, Marcus Washington, Sean Taylor, Carlos Rogers, Mark Brunell, Chris Cooley, Casey Rabach and Randy Thomas through our FO. They rule as far as I'm concerned. We are in the second round of the playoffs, just like the Broncos. Can't say I feel sorry for us. Also, you guys are $30 million over the cap in 2006. We're under $8 million over the cap.

That said, I agree with you that Shanahan did not get burned. Why does one side of a trade automatically have to "get burned" in your mind? I think the trades were mutually beneficial. You will not find anyone around here that regrets the trades.

True...

I was talking strictly about those two trades, but yea, your FO isn't all that bad...

Why does one side have to get burned? Because there are two opposite SIDES. Sure, they were mutually beneficial, but Denver got way more than they gave. That's what Denver fans think anyways, and 'Skins fans obviously see differently. Both sides have to rationalize, that's just the way it is...:)

[redwolf1218]

That goes without saying, but I was talking in terms of draft position, not trophies. Of course I'd rather win the SB than get a lower pick...
but you said:

Washington could win the super bowl, and Denver would still come out in front...

that makes no sense. who would rather win a draft trade decision than a Superbowl?

[WABronco]

but you said:

Washington could win the super bowl, and Denver would still come out in front...

that makes no sense. who would rather win a draft trade decision than a Superbowl?

Re-read my post...

"Strictly in terms of draft position"

[GolfFreak]

but you said:

Washington could win the super bowl, and Denver would still come out in front...

that makes no sense. who would rather win a draft trade decision than a Superbowl?

Good point! I'd love to win that draft trade decision much more than the SB (sarcasm intended).

[redwolf1218]

Re-read my post...

"Strictly in terms of draft position"
ok i get what you mean, like even if that first rounder is the 32nd pick. i'll still take that, a superbowl win, and the QB of the future already locked in, and we still got Cooley in the 3rd. it will take a couple of years to see how all the draft picks pan out to know the real evaluation of it.

[WABronco]

ok i get what you mean, like even if that first rounder is the 32nd pick. i'll still take that, a superbowl win, and the QB of the future already locked in, and we still got Cooley in the 3rd. it will take a couple of years to see how all the draft picks pan out to know the real evaluation of it.

agreed...

[redskin_rich]

That goes without saying, but I was talking in terms of draft position, not trophies. Of course I'd rather win the SB than get a lower pick...
Ok, but draft position and draft picks are just paper, you have to wait a few years for fruition to judge who did better. In other words, one stud is better than 2 busts and a role player. None of us know how the picks you received and the player we took will turn out a couple years from now, so nobody can claim victory yet.

The point of this thread was only that you all thought you would get a top 5 or top 10 pick in '06 and that didn't happen.

[WABronco]

The point of this thread was only that you all thought you would get a top 5 or top 10 pick in '06 and that didn't happen.

All right...

It woulda been cool, but what can ya do?

[helimech24]

Ok, but draft position and draft picks are just paper, you have to wait a few years for fruition to judge who did better. In other words, one stud is better than 2 busts and a role player. None of us know how the picks you received and the player we took will turn out a couple years from now, so nobody can claim victory yet.

The point of this thread was only that you all thought you would get a top 5 or top 10 pick in '06 and that didn't happen.

It would be so great if we gave them a 32nd pick for our future QB. I bet that would really hurt their pride,lol.

[akhhorus]

Yea, us Denver fans have a running thread on our site about the continued worsening of our picks' positions.

It must feel a little better as a 'Skins fan to see that pick keep dropping and dropping, but the fact is we still have two first rounders. Denver can do a few things with those picks, including trading up for a premier pass rusher, or holding our cards and getting a guy like Gaines Adams (if he comes out) and Broderick Bunkley. Now I know you 'Skins fans would love to add a stud to your D-Line, or pick up a solid no. 2 receiver.

There's a big difference between having a top 15 pick and a late first and having two late first rounders. And considering how many DEs are in this draft, there will be plenty of talent when we pick in the 2nd round.

Lol, Shanahan didn't take a risk. We were looking for corners, and the guys he had targeted were all available at our 2nd and 3rd round picks. Denver got, arguably, the two best corners in the draft (and no, that's not a Carlos Rogers diss).

You can make a case with Darrent Williams, but Foxworth? LMAO.

And Shanny sure didn't get burned. If anyone knows about getting burned, it should be the 'Skins FO. Denver has screwed Washington twice in the last two seasons. Portis for Bailey was a good swap, but your GM gave Denver an extra 2nd rounder (Tatum Bell, that was smart). Then, in the most recent trade, Washington gave Denver this years first, this years fourth, and a third rounder in last years (Karl Paymah) draft FOR Jason Campbell...

1-Champ was never going to resign with the Skins. And you gave him far more than any other team would. So the trade is really Tatem Bell for Clinton Portis. I'll take that deal for the Skins anyday of the week. Bell shows flashes, but even the Broncos don't believe he'll ever be an everydown RB. So while Champ is clogging your cap for 16 million next season and more down the road, we've got a workhorse RB who has 2800 yards in two seasons outside of the Denver system. Thats only 300 less yards than he had in two years in Denver.
2-So for Paymah, a 4th rounder and this year's late first, we got a better quality Qb of the future than we ever would have in this year's draft? And he gets to sit and learn for a year(which works for so many Qbs that you have to wonder why they all don't do it). Enjoy our garbage, we'll take Campbell.

Washington could win the super bowl, and Denver would still come out in front...

Man are you ridiculous. So if the Skins won the Super Bowl and the Broncos didnt; the Broncos come out ahead because they would get our first rounder? LMAO.

[WABronco]

It would be so great if we gave them a 32nd pick for our future QB. I bet that would really hurt their pride,lol.

errrr...

Denver's set at CB for years now, and they didn't even have a first. Darrent Williams is the best CB of this years rook class, plain and simple. Until he got injured, he was being seriously considered for DROY. I think Rolle will be the best long term, but as far as this years impact and future outlook, Darrent looks great.

Then we got Foxworth, who's started for D Will since he went down with a groin injury-he hasn't missed a beat.

Now...we've got two first rounders to further improve the team.

(and yes, I bet Carlos Rogers will be good too, no need for flaming)

[WABronco]

Yes, Darrent and Dom are the two best rook corners...

Or, how about, Darrent and Dom are two OF THE best corners. That doesn't hurt anyone's feelings, does it?

Hey akhorus, or whatever, go read my other posts. I was speaking "strictly in terms of draft position." I acknowledged that winning the SB would be better than a low draft pick...

Don't be so freakin hostile, jeebuz...

[Farmer Ted]

[QUOTE=WABronco]
And Shanny sure didn't get burned. If anyone knows about getting burned, it should be the 'Skins FO. Denver has screwed Washington twice in the last two seasons. Portis for Bailey was a good swap, but your GM gave Denver an extra 2nd rounder (Tatum Bell, that was smart). Then, in the most recent trade, Washington gave Denver this years first, this years fourth, and a third rounder in last years (Karl Paymah) draft FOR Jason Campbell...
QUOTE]

Dang, I told you guys earlier in the thread that all of the Denver media and their fans believe that they fleeced us on these two trades.

Oh, and WABronco, are you aware of that fact that the Redskins have won more playoff games in the last 7 seasons than the Broncos have? That's got to hurt, hunh?

[Farmer Ted]

And your last statement is laughable, there is no coming in front of a Super Bowl winner. I would rather see no playoffs and 1 Super Bowl in 5 years than make the playoffs every year but lose.

Eagles fans around the country disagree with you.:)

[akhhorus]

Yes, Darrent and Dom are the two best rook corners...

Darrent is, Dom isn't.

Or, how about, Darrent and Dom are two OF THE best corners. That doesn't hurt anyone's feelings, does it?

*yawn* don't backtrack.

Hey akhorus, or whatever, go read my other posts. I was speaking "strictly in terms of draft position." I acknowledged that winning the SB would be better than a low draft pick...

Don't be so freakin hostile, jeebuz...

But its a ridiculous thing to say period. Even with the disclaimer of "strictly on draft position". I'm not being hostile, you're the one who is running your mouth and picking fights.

As for the Campbell trade: Throw out the 3rd and 4th rounders, they have no real value in the trade. Shanahan gambled that the Skins would win 7 or less games and he lost that bet. There were plenty of players, even at the time of the draft, that would have helped the Broncos out this season and down the line, but Shanahan was going for a high pick that would be a luxury pick to take the best player available. The Skins needed real talent at Qb, even just for the future because Brunell and Ramsey weren't the answer for 3 years from now. And considering at worse, the Skins are just swapping a pick a year ahead and its not a high first, they won that deal. There is no QB at the bottom half of the first round heading into the 06 draft that would represent the same value as Campbell.

[WABronco]

True, and that' because we're Denver fans. You rationalize the trade with CP (which isn't all that crazy), and we rationalize it with the surplus of draft picks we got, and Bailey...

Whateva, you're happy, we're happy, it's all good.

[redskin_rich]

Eagles fans around the country disagree with you.:)
LOL, thats because they don't know any better. ;)

[akhhorus]

errrr...

Denver's set at CB for years now, and they didn't even have a first. Darrent Williams is the best CB of this years rook class, plain and simple. Until he got injured, he was being seriously considered for DROY. I think Rolle will be the best long term, but as far as this years impact and future outlook, Darrent looks great.

Then we got Foxworth, who's started for D Will since he went down with a groin injury-he hasn't missed a beat.

Now...we've got two first rounders to further improve the team.

(and yes, I bet Carlos Rogers will be good too, no need for flaming)

And considering how much cap space Champ takes up, you're going to have to let one or both of them go, if they are as good as you say, or you're going to have to dump Champ. I'm betting you dump Champ frankly. Probably a lot sooner than later.

[WABronco]

k, I "backtracked" because I didn't want one of these responses.

IMO, Darrent and Dom are the two best corners. Dom has been awesome since he's been starting. It's kinda like when the Eagles took Sheldon Brown and Lito Sheppard...

Since the discussion was on who came out on top in that trade, I wasn't thinking of the actual SB trophy. Anyways, it doesn't matter...I shoulda just said the 32nd pick (no mention of SB there).

And you're spending too much time on this calling me a troll thing. No one else on this board thinks that, including the owner. I don't have any beefs with anyone, I'm not trolling, I'm not picking fights, I'm not trying to be argumentative, etc etc etc...

[WABronco]

And considering how much cap space Champ takes up, you're going to have to let one or both of them go, if they are as good as you say, or you're going to have to dump Champ. I'm betting you dump Champ frankly. Probably a lot sooner than later.

Yea, they probably will replace Champ someday. But that day isn't in the forseeable future...

[akhhorus]

k, I "backtracked" because I didn't want one of these responses.

IMO, Darrent and Dom are the two best corners. Dom has been awesome since he's been starting. It's kinda like when the Eagles took Sheldon Brown and Lito Sheppard...

Since the discussion was on who came out on top in that trade, I wasn't thinking of the actual SB trophy. Anyways, it doesn't matter...I shoulda just said the 32nd pick (no mention of SB there).

And you're spending too much time on this calling me a troll thing. No one else on this board thinks that, including the owner. I don't have any beefs with anyone, I'm not trolling, I'm not picking fights, I'm not trying to be argumentative, etc etc etc...

The owner said that 24 hours ago, before you starting taking shots at Portis and trying to picks fights.

Yea, they probably will replace Champ someday. But that day isn't in the forseeable future...

It will be much sooner than you think. Champ's going to take up 16 million in cap space in 06 and 07, and the numbers go up to around 20+ million if he hits certain performance clauses.

[redwolf1218]

everyone liked Champ when he was here, he never missed a game in 5 years, but when he left, he started running his mouth, and everyone got offended.

Clinton Portis took the high road and never said anything bad.

[akhhorus]

everyone liked Champ when he was here, he never missed a game in 5 years, but when he left, he started running his mouth, and everyone got offended.

Clinton Portis took the high road and never said anything bad.

I think the most amazing stat about Champ, that tells me so much, is that he's only ever had 1 INT against a team that made the playoffs the year he picked them(2005 Giants). He has plenty of INTs in his career, but that says a lot about when he shows up to play.

[WABronco]

The owner said that 24 hours ago, before you starting taking shots at Portis and trying to picks fights.

Oh, you mean the whole "Portis WAS good" thing? Yea, well, when you responded in your typical tone, I clearly said I was joking.

I was hoping you would've gotten it in the first place, I put both the eye-rolling and the big ol' LOL smiley face in it, trying to indicate I was joking...

Have you read my other posts regarding Portis? Nothin but love...

[WABronco]

but that says a lot about when he shows up to play.

Dang, are you serious?

He had pics in five straight games, he saved the season (virtually) in week 2, and a whole bunch of other things. Besides, pics aren't the only thing that matters...

[WABronco]

everyone liked Champ when he was here, he never missed a game in 5 years, but when he left, he started running his mouth, and everyone got offended.

Clinton Portis took the high road and never said anything bad.

True, but CP said a few things. He's still well respected by Denver fans in my book though...

[akhhorus]

Oh, you mean the whole "Portis WAS good" thing? Yea, well, when you responded in your typical tone, I clearly said I was joking.

I was hoping you would've gotten it in the first place, I put both the eye-rolling and the big ol' LOL smiley face in it, trying to indicate I was joking...

Rolleyes and lol smiley doesn't indicate you're joking, when combined with "who isn't good(in Denver)". Saying "I'm Joking" or "I kid" would indicate that.

Have you read my other posts regarding Portis? Nothin but love...

Yes you have. And you're still a troll.

[akhhorus]

Dang, are you serious?

He had pics in five straight games, he saved the season (virtually) in week 2, and a whole bunch of other things. Besides, pics aren't the only thing that matters...

He did, against Oakland, the Jets, Dallas, Kansas City and Baltimore. Four bad QBs and the other was a loss. My point is that Champ in his whole career(Wash and Den) has only had one INT against a playoff team. That says a lot. And Champ got burned here plenty and has gotten burned there plenty. He's a very good Cb, but he's not as good as his hype or his salary.

[WABronco]

Rolleyes and lol smiley doesn't indicate you're joking, when combined with "who isn't good(in Denver)". Saying "I'm Joking" or "I kid" would indicate that.



Yes you have. And you're still a troll.

Ok, I'm sorry I didn't pour through the huge list of smileys to find a "joking" one. I guess I won't assume interpretations anymore...

BTW, what was cited, in all those PM's you got, as being trollish? I'd honestly like to know...

[WABronco]

He did, against Oakland, the Jets, Dallas, Kansas City and Baltimore. Four bad QBs and the other was a loss. My point is that Champ in his whole career(Wash and Den) has only had one INT against a playoff team. That says a lot. And Champ got burned here plenty and has gotten burned there plenty. He's a very good Cb, but he's not as good as his hype or his salary.

Who's better?

[akhhorus]

Ok, I'm sorry I didn't pour through the huge list of smileys to find a "joking" one. I guess I won't assume interpretations anymore...

BTW, what was cited, in all those PM's you got, as being trollish? I'd honestly like to know...

You're not allowed to discuss the content of PMs in open forums on HR. Sorry.

[redwolf1218]

True, but CP said a few things. He's still well respected by Denver fans in my book though...
Portis always spoke glowingly of his time there, and his coaches, and his team mates, and his fans. he never said anything bad. so of course yall respect him. Champ though, he burned all his bridges.

[Farmer Ted]

Who's better?

Well, he's retired now, but Champ couldn't hold Darrell Green's jock.

[WABronco]

You're not allowed to discuss the content of PMs in open forums on HR. Sorry.

Well then, I'd appreciate it if you just PM'ed them to me then...

But, I don't expect you to anyways.

[akhhorus]

Who's better?

I'll take Ty Law, Ronde Barber, Ken Lucas and Chris McAlister over Champ right now. And there's quite a few I would put real close behind Champ right now.

[WABronco]

Well, he's retired now, but Champ couldn't hold Darrell Green's jock.

ok, but anyone who's playing in the league now?

Some say McCalister, but he can't tackle...

[akhhorus]

Well then, I'd appreciate it if you just PM'ed them to me then...

But, I don't expect you to anyways.

Why should I? I'm not going to tell you what people told me in confidence. I don't expect people to tell me what they're pming about me here. Got some Paranoia issues, huh?

[WABronco]

I'll take Ty Law, Ronde Barber, Ken Lucas and Chris McAlister over Champ right now. And there's quite a few I would put real close behind Champ right now.

k...

As you would guess, I'd still take Champ though...

[WABronco]

Why should I? I'm not going to tell you what people told me in confidence. I don't expect people to tell me what they're pming about me here. Got some Paranoia issues, huh?

no, it's just your claim that people were PM'ing you with complaints of my "trollish behavior" strikes me as absolute bs...

[akhhorus]

k...

As you would guess, I'd still take Champ though...

Hurray Homerism!

[WABronco]

Hurray Homerism!

Nooo, he's just better than all of the guys you listed...

Whatever, it's your opinion, that's cool...

[akhhorus]

no, it's just your claim that people were PM'ing you with complaints of my "trollish behavior" strikes me as absolute bs...

And its not. But you're not going to try and bluff me to give you their names, which is what you want.

[akhhorus]

Nooo, he's just better than all of the guys you listed...

Whatever, it's your opinion, that's cool...

And its yours. But you're a Broncos fan and a Seattle fan, so you have questions of Bias on this topic.

[WABronco]

And its not. But you're not going to try and bluff me to give you their names, which is what you want.

Huh?

Bluff you?

Why would I want names? So I can hunt them down or somethin?

Oh, and I would say you're somewhat biased as well. You're obviously hell bent on bashing Bailey, and I'm guessing it's because of what he said when he left Washington. That's fine...

[WABronco]

All righty, I think I'm gonna go now, this whole troll thing is bordering on the level of freakish...

[dj_stouty]

Dang, are you serious?

He had pics in five straight games, he saved the season (virtually) in week 2, and a whole bunch of other things. Besides, pics aren't the only thing that matters...

LOL...not even the 49ers or Texans had their "season on the line" during week 2. Come on, now...

[dj_stouty]

Lol, Shanahan didn't take a risk.

Yes he did take a risk...and at the time, it looked like a relatively LOW risk. The Skins had back to back top 10 picks over the last two seasons...and Deep down in his heart (and the hearts of every single Bronco fan), the trade was made so that the Broncos could give up a late 1st round pick in 2005 for a top 5-10 pick in 2006. 95% of the Orange Mane agreed with that notion immediately after the trade. The truth is, the Broncos will essentially get the same pick back that they traded...just a year later. The Skins, in turn, got their QB...and are developing him on the bench in an effort to duplicate the sucess of other QBs in that situation, such as Carson Palmer.

Shanahan was expecting a blue-chipper in '06. Plain and simple.

Now he won't get one, unless he gets the steal of the draft. Remember, Shanny thought he had the steal of the draft last year with Clarrett. LOL

[CNYSkinFan]

Yes he did take a risk...and at the time, it looked like a relatively LOW risk. The Skins had back to back top 10 picks over the last two seasons...and Deep down in his heart (and the hearts of every single Bronco fan), the trade was made so that the Broncos could give up a late 1st round pick in 2005 for a top 5-10 pick in 2006. 95% of the Orange Mane agreed with that notion immediately after the trade. The truth is, the Broncos will essentially get the same pick back that they traded...just a year later. The Skins, in turn, got their QB...and are developing him on the bench in an effort to duplicate the sucess of other QBs in that situation, such as Carson Palmer.

Shanahan was expecting a blue-chipper in '06. Plain and simple.

Now he won't get one, unless he gets the steal of the draft. Remember, Shanny thought he had the steal of the draft last year with Clarrett. LOL

More importantly we got Jasonb Campbell early and gave him a year in the system for our 4th round pick last year and our 3rd round pick this year. MNot a bad price to pay for the future of your franchise to earn a year of NFL experience.

[Farmer Ted]

Now he won't get one, unless he gets the steal of the draft. Remember, Shanny thought he had the steal of the draft last year with Clarrett. LOL

Those were good times. I'm hoping Shanny blows a top draft pick on Vick this year.

[Redblood]

Great having you on the HR Forum!

Same to WABronco! Claiming victory in a trade is silly, but not Trollish.

Each FO goes into FA and the NFL Draft with different objectives. In recent past, our FO looks primarily to FA. Donkeys look to Draft. That's it in a nutshell. End of discussion.

Nothing to see here people. Move on.

We have DaHaux to think about. Not how player A does vs. player B.

Each player plays different sides of the ball. Same for each of their respective team's FOs.

[WABronco]

Shanahan was expecting a blue-chipper in '06. Plain and simple.

Well, IMO, he traded out of the first because: Mark Clayton was gone, DeMarcus Ware was gone, Marcus Spears was gone, and Travis Johnson was gone.

The only guy remotely appealing to Denver at 25 was Mike Patterson, and there are several prospects who are in the same tier (or higher) as him as a prospect. Broderick Bunkley, for example, would look great in Denver.

I think it's fair to say Denver hoped for/expected a high pick this year, but it didn't turn out, obviously:rolleyes: . But, in the end, having two first and a bunch of midrounders gives Shanny some options. Based solely on those draft value charts, Denver could trade into the top 10 with ease...

[WABronco]

More importantly we got Jasonb Campbell early and gave him a year in the system for our 4th round pick last year and our 3rd round pick this year. MNot a bad price to pay for the future of your franchise to earn a year of NFL experience.

When is he gonna be the franchise qb though? Next year, two years from now? Just wondering...

[akhhorus]

LOL...not even the 49ers or Texans had their "season on the line" during week 2. Come on, now...

Well, the Skins had their season saved in week one when Lance Briggs clotheslined Ramsey....but you're right, an INT run back for a TD in week 2 doesn't save a season.

[WABronco]

Well, the Skins had their season saved in week one when Lance Briggs clotheslined Ramsey....but you're right, an INT run back for a TD in week 2 doesn't save a season.

All right, maybe it doesn't save it, but it turns it in the right direction...

If Denver loses that game, they're pretty much in a dogfight for the rest of the year...

[bgforever]

In my view, you can only evaluate trades with hindsight. At the time they are made, their purpose is to benefit each team in line with its specific needs. I think that happened here. Denver got what it wanted with Baily for its needs (and also Bell) and we got Portis. As a Skins fan, I'm sure happy with that, but Denver probably is also. As to the draft picks, we need to see how Campbell eventually does and who Denver picks to evaluate that (drafting QB's is a well know crap shoot). What I can tell you is the Jets got "fleeced" in the Coles for Moss trade, despite all the experts thinking the opposite at the time.


Add now the likelihood that Abraham is gone, along with an offensive lineman, Edwards is gone, meaning other players will likely get removed and we got Moss just in time!

[smoak]

All right, maybe it doesn't save it, but it turns it in the right direction...

If Denver loses that game, they're pretty much in a dogfight for the rest of the year...

Being as I was at the Skins game where Arrington took one to the house against Carolina (under Marty), I will buy the "one play" impact on a season. I truly believe Marty would have gotten us into the playoffs had he not left for Spurrier.

That said, I am so THRILLED this pick is at the bottom of the first round b/c I know Broncos fans (some personally) who were positive this was a top 5 or maybe 10 pick.

Gibbs IMO didn't take a chance. He was confident in his team.

[RedskinRyan]

whats the update on the 1st rd pick that denver got from us this year? did we reach the magical 25 spot yet?

[bgforever]

Being as I was at the Skins game where Arrington took one to the house against Carolina (under Marty), I will buy the "one play" impact on a season. I truly believe Marty would have gotten us into the playoffs had he not left for Spurrier.

That said, I am so THRILLED this pick is at the bottom of the first round b/c I know Broncos fans (some personally) who were positive this was a top 5 or maybe 10 pick.

Gibbs IMO didn't take a chance. He was confident in his team.

Great point! I had that thought two days ago and said, just get past TB and I can smile even bigger. Now get past Seattle and I can..........:)

[akhhorus]

Being as I was at the Skins game where Arrington took one to the house against Carolina (under Marty), I will buy the "one play" impact on a season. I truly believe Marty would have gotten us into the playoffs had he not left for Spurrier.

That said, I am so THRILLED this pick is at the bottom of the first round b/c I know Broncos fans (some personally) who were positive this was a top 5 or maybe 10 pick.

Gibbs IMO didn't take a chance. He was confident in his team.

Yes, but that was in week 8 or 9. It did turn around the season because it ended an 8 game losing streak. If you need an INT for a TD in week 2 to turn around a team, then you have coaching issues.

[WABronco]

whats the update on the 1st rd pick that denver got from us this year? did we reach the magical 25 spot yet?

I don't know what the deal is. I'm under the impression that the pick doesn't change from it's season ending position unless you win the SB.

I don't know, that sounds sort of wrong...

[smoak]

Yes, but that was in week 8 or 9. It did turn around the season because it ended an 8 game losing streak. If you need an INT for a TD in week 2 to turn around a team, then you have coaching issues.

No argument here. I just think there are times that players can start to question things (even themselves). Plus losing any division can be a killer. How many years would we have been in the playoffs is we had a winning record in the division.

But IMO the INT didn't win that game and neither did it save the season.

[CNYSkinFan]

I don't know what the deal is. I'm under the impression that the pick doesn't change from it's season ending position unless you win the SB.

I don't know, that sounds sort of wrong...

I think it is wrong. The position changes depending upon final seeding. IF a team is eliminated in the same round of the playoffs then the records are then used...I think.

I am not sure.

[dj_stouty]

Based solely on those draft value charts, Denver could trade into the top 10 with ease...

Yes...I think the value of the Skins pick and your existing pick will get you a pick in the 8-10 range. What is ironic...is that you NOW have to use two picks to get a high 1st rounder...not the single pick the Skins were supposed to give you with one.

[WABronco]

Yes...I think the value of the Skins pick and your existing pick will get you a pick in the 8-10 range. What is ironic...is that you NOW have to use two picks to get a high 1st rounder...not the single pick the Skins were supposed to give you with one.

true...doh!

Ehh, but if Denver gets a guy like Mario Williams or Tamba Hali, it's all good with me.

[helimech24]

I think it is wrong. The position changes depending upon final seeding. IF a team is eliminated in the same round of the playoffs then the records are then used...I think.

I am not sure.

That is the way it works. You start from the SB champion and work backwards for the playoffs with the records being the tiebreakers.