So maybe he killed one guy. What's the big deal? [Archive]

Spence

01-20-2006, 09:52 AM

A classic moment in Beltway Banditry, from last night's Hardball. This is Republican lobbyist Ed Rogers, talking about Jack Abramoff:"Look, this is going to come out. Nobody is going to keep it a secret. Jack Abramoff is so radioactive—I've got Jack Abramoff fatigue already. I mean, good grief, he didn't kill anybody. Maybe that one guy in Florida."Gotta love that. He didn't kill anyone and even if he did, that person wasn't killed inside the Beltway, so what's the big freaking deal? I swear, if this was an epic Greek poem half the Republicans in Washington, D.C. would have been struck down by one of Zeus' thunderbolts by now.

Source (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10924558/)

Ibleedburgundy

01-20-2006, 10:17 AM

Axegrinder

01-20-2006, 10:18 AM

Got Good Government?
Me neither.
These folks are "out of touch"!
And they have the nerve to dog Howard Dean.

RedskinsDave

01-20-2006, 10:21 AM

The right wing media is instructing everyone to not care about this scandal. They are saying "people care about gas prices and the war on terror. Nobody cares about minute details of campaign finance inside the beltway." :rolleyes:

Seriously, do you live in your own world? It really seems you do.

akhhorus

01-20-2006, 10:29 AM

The right wing media is instructing everyone to not care about this scandal. They are saying "people care about gas prices and the war on terror. Nobody cares about minute details of campaign finance inside the beltway." :rolleyes:

Oh please, the National Review has been slamming the GOP for this and rejecting the charge that its a "bipartisan scandal".

BurgundyNGold

01-20-2006, 10:56 AM

The right wing media is instructing everyone to not care about this scandal. They are saying "people care about gas prices and the war on terror. Nobody cares about minute details of campaign finance inside the beltway." :rolleyes:
Being an independent sucks. You miss out on all the memos.

fent

01-20-2006, 10:59 AM

Got Good Government?
Me neither.
These folks are "out of touch"!
And they have the nerve to dog Howard Dean.

care to expound on what WOULD make good government? or maybe how these people are "out of touch" any more than a guy who thought that he could win the democratic nomination by depending on college students and now thinks that his position as chief fund raiser is actually a position to steer Democratic policy.

Axegrinder

01-20-2006, 11:16 AM

care to expound on what WOULD make good government? or maybe how these people are "out of touch" any more than a guy who thought that he could win the democratic nomination by depending on college students and now thinks that his position as chief fund raiser is actually a position to steer Democratic policy.
Contract with America?
With whom?
Enough said here.

fent

01-20-2006, 11:18 AM

Contract with America?
With whom?
Enough said here.

axe, i like you, i really do, but when you come in and you say things like this and the "got good government?" line that you've used at least twice now (comments meant to be inflammatory and not furthering any debate) and then disappear from the thread, you're no better than kelly/merlin/sherry. if you really have something to ad, go for it, but i'm getting sick of your hit and run antagonism.

Ibleedburgundy

01-20-2006, 11:22 AM

axe, i like you, i really do, but when you come in and you say things like this and the "got good government?" line that you've used at least twice now (comments meant to be inflammatory and not furthering any debate) and then disappear from the thread, you're no better than kelly/merlin/sherry. if you really have something to ad, go for it, but i'm getting sick of your hit and run antagonism.

Yeah, at least you could come up with something funny and new, like those wacky tin-foil hat jokes.

Axegrinder

01-20-2006, 11:22 AM

axe, i like you, i really do, but when you come in and you say things like this and the "got good government?" line that you've used at least twice now (comments meant to be inflammatory and not furthering any debate) and then disappear from the thread, you're no better than kelly/merlin/sherry. if you really have something to ad, go for it, but i'm getting sick of your hit and run antagonism.
And your partys governance is not inflamatory?
The way that you,and others,belittle and name call others here,as if their opinions are any less valuable than yours,isn't inflammatory?
Get in touch!

fent

01-20-2006, 11:23 AM

Yeah, at least you could come up with something funny and new, like those wacky tin-foil hat jokes.

time for you to adjust yours. i'll give you credit, at least you try and debate. you may be out in left field, but you formulate an argument.

Keino

01-20-2006, 11:23 AM

RedskinsDave

01-20-2006, 11:25 AM

RedskinsDave

01-20-2006, 11:26 AM

I think Axe has posted enough quality material in this forum that he doesn't need to prove anything to anyone with his particular style of posting. Do you object to Dave's one liners that are typically posted in a similar style but from the opposite side of the political spectrum?

I will debate on top of one liners. Axe seems to only hit and run and then when called into a debate, he obfuscates first and then quits.

fent

01-20-2006, 11:27 AM

And your partys governance is not inflamatory?
The way that you,and others,belittle and name call others here,as if their opinions are any less valuable than yours,isn't inflammatory?
Get in touch!

don't try and play the innocent card. your little ploy to try and paint me as someone that's in government just to make a buck the other day is the creme de la creme of what you're complaining about here. your opinion would be valuable IF YOU GAVE ONE. but you don't, you drop your little one line, no thought posts just like the former poster that forced us to password-protect this forum.

Axegrinder

01-20-2006, 11:28 AM

Will you ever directly answer a question? You are the reigning king of straw man answers.
Do I sound like a politician?

fent

01-20-2006, 11:28 AM

I think Axe has posted enough quality material in this forum that he doesn't need to prove anything to anyone with his particular style of posting. Do you object to Dave's one liners that are typically posted in a similar style but from the opposite side of the political spectrum?

dave has a history of providing thoughtful analysis. axe, however, brings up nothing but ed schrock over and over. on the occasions that he does bring up something else, like big business being out to get him, he doesn't back anything up.

fent

01-20-2006, 11:29 AM

Do I sound like a politician?

case in point.

Axegrinder

01-20-2006, 11:31 AM

don't try and play the innocent card. your little ploy to try and paint me as someone that's in government just to make a buck the other day is the creme de la creme of what you're complaining about here. your opinion would be valuable IF YOU GAVE ONE. but you don't, you drop your little one line, no thought posts just like the former poster that forced us to password-protect this forum.
Why?Does it offend you?

fent

01-20-2006, 11:34 AM

Why?Does it offend you?

it does offend me when you underhandly accuse me of things like that or accuse me of being corrupt because of who i worked for just because you got riled up and had nothing else to counter my argument with. it doesn't offend me that you don't bring anything substantive to the table, just don't think that you can make those comments in here that are as loaded as they come and not be able to back them up.

Axegrinder

01-20-2006, 11:35 AM

fent

01-20-2006, 11:36 AM

I'm sorry,but it's not Fent's Forum.
I have a voice and I'll continue to use it,regardless if you don't like it.

Why don't you do something in Washington to make it less hostile?
If you can't stand the heat....

it's not a matter of the heat, it's a matter of you actually being held accountable now for the things that you say, just like we hold IBB, Kelly, and the rest. at least in DC, if i don't agree with someone they can give me a reason that they believe that way...

Axegrinder

01-20-2006, 11:37 AM

it's not a matter of the heat, it's a matter of you actually being held accountable now for the things that you say, just like we hold IBB, Kelly, and the rest. at least in DC, if i don't agree with someone they can give me a reason that they believe that way...
Who is we?

fent

01-20-2006, 11:38 AM

Who is we?

the rest of this forum. and we all keep each other in check, but somehow you've been given a free pass

BurgundyNGold

01-20-2006, 11:43 AM

I like cheese.

Axegrinder

01-20-2006, 11:46 AM

the rest of this forum.
Kelly was banned for spamming and not having thoughts.
I have opinions that you don't like.
You guys run people off all the time and I'm not one of them.
If I antogonize you,I'm just returning the favor,but they are my beliefs.

Ibleedburgundy

01-20-2006, 11:47 AM

fent

01-20-2006, 11:48 AM

Kelly was banned for spammiing and not having thoughts.
I have opinions that you don't like.
You guys run people off all the time and I'm not one of them.
If I antogonize you,I'm just returning the favor,but they are my beliefs.

your beliefs are fine, but be able to back them up. this all started just because i asked you to back up your accusation earlier in this thread and you STILL haven't done so.

fent

01-20-2006, 11:49 AM

ROFLMAO I'm being called a hack by an Oral Roberts grad who was pre-determined at birth to always vote Republican.

actually, my parents couldn't care less how i eventually ended up voting. my brother's one of the biggest liberals i know. and as for my education, to each his own, at least mine allows me to spell my screenname correctly.

BurgundyNGold

01-20-2006, 11:49 AM

ROFLMAO I'm being called a hack by an Oral Roberts grad who was pre-determined at birth to always vote Republican.
Republicans don't believe in political orientation. It's political "preference". ;)

Keino

01-20-2006, 11:53 AM

dave has a history of providing thoughtful analysis. axe, however, brings up nothing but ed schrock over and over. on the occasions that he does bring up something else, like big business being out to get him, he doesn't back anything up.

It's not my intention to bust up this thread, but I do have further comment.

Is there a moral or ethical obligation to provide factual basis for an expressed opinion? No of course not. An opinion can be grounded in fact, perception, intuition or a general feeling. The mere expression of an opinion doesn't require "back-up". Now I agree that if you want people to take the opinion seriously, then factual back-up is probably a good idea, but by no means is it a requirement.
Telling someone that their opinion adds nothing to the forum, because you don't happen to agree with the substance or the basis of the opinion is more inappropriate than expressing the "baseless" opinion in my mind. Why not provide some factual basis that may have the effect of causing the expressor of the opinion to revisit their position. At the very least you demonstrate that the opinion is not valid given the facts.

I disagree with you about Axe never providing an insightful opinion. To compare his style to Kelly who would post an article and not offer an opinion of her own is not oly not fair, but more to the point, hardly accurate.

This is a contentious forum by design. Some people will provide flippant and sarcastic one liners, while other will really want a wholesome debate on a given issue. Both styles are within the guidlines and fine.

RedskinsDave

01-20-2006, 11:53 AM

actually, my parents couldn't care less how i eventually ended up voting. my brother's one of the biggest liberals i know. and as for my education, to each his own, at least mine allows me to spell my screenname correctly.

Zing!

Axegrinder

01-20-2006, 11:53 AM

your beliefs are fine, but be able to back them up. this all started just because i asked you to back up your accusation earlier in this thread and you STILL haven't done so.
I'll do so when you get down from your high horse and tell me your motivation for going to D.C.?
You're serving in government,why?

akhhorus

01-20-2006, 11:53 AM

ROFLMAO I'm being called a hack by an Oral Roberts grad who was pre-determined at birth to always vote Republican.

You really act an a$$ most times. So, because he went to a college you don't like and votes a certain way, he cannot criticize your lame posts in this forum? I'm a very moderate republican, went to a liberal college, born in a blue state who knows you're a hack.

fent

01-20-2006, 11:55 AM

I'll do so when you get down from your high horse and tell me your motivation for going to D.C.?
You're serving in government,why?

this is exactly the post i was referring to earlier. it has absolutely nothing to do with the thread, and in the context of you bringing it up initially, could only have served to try and paint me with the brush of corruption you apply, rightfully so, to guys like abramoff.

Ibleedburgundy

01-20-2006, 11:56 AM

RedskinsDave

01-20-2006, 11:57 AM

It's not my intention to bust up this thread, but I do have further comment.

Is there a moral or ethical obligation to provide factual basis for an expressed opinion? No of course not. An opinion can be grounded in fact, perception, intuition or a general feeling. The mere expression of an opinion doesn't require "back-up". Now I agree that if you want people to take the opinion seriously, then factual back-up is probably a good idea, but by no means is it a requirement.
Telling someone that their opinion adds nothing to the forum, because you don't happen to agree with the substance or the basis of the opinion is more inappropriate than expressing the "baseless" opinion in my mind. Why not provide some factual basis that may have the effect of causing the expressor of the opinion to revisit their position. At the very least you demonstrate that the opinion is not valid given the facts.

I disagree with you about Axe never providing an insightful opinion. To compare his style to Kelly who would post an article and not offer an opinion of her own is not oly not fair, but more to the point, hardly accurate.

This is a contentious forum by design. Some people will provide flippant and sarcastic one liners, while other will really want a wholesome debate on a given issue. Both styles are within the guidlines and fine.

Sean you know darn well that if all a conservative in the forum did was offer one liners and hardly ever offer any substantive answer that he/she would be called on it. The funny part is that Fent and I would probably be a part of that. After repeatedly offering nothing more than one-liners or "got government" shots, Axe was asked to explain himself. What's so wrong with that?

akhhorus

01-20-2006, 11:58 AM

It's not my intention to bust up this thread, but I do have further comment.

Is there a moral or ethical obligation to provide factual basis for an expressed opinion? No of course not. An opinion can be grounded in fact, perception, intuition or a general feeling. The mere expression of an opinion doesn't require "back-up". Now I agree that if you want people to take the opinion seriously, then factual back-up is probably a good idea, but by no means is it a requirement.
Telling someone that their opinion adds nothing to the forum, because you don't happen to agree with the substance or the basis of the opinion is more inappropriate than expressing the "baseless" opinion in my mind. Why not provide some factual basis that may have the effect of causing the expressor of the opinion to revisit their position. At the very least you demonstrate that the opinion is not valid given the facts.

I disagree with you about Axe never providing an insightful opinion. To compare his style to Kelly who would post an article and not offer an opinion of her own is not oly not fair, but more to the point, hardly accurate.

Axe has given great, insightful posts in the past; but recently his posts have been kelly-esque. He just wants to run in, slam fent or dave's position and run out without actually debating the issues, and sometimes get a slam in on fent's former boss(which is out of line). And he brings up Ed Schrock whether its relevant or not. I like Axe, but his arguments here recently are annoying. He's giving great examples of this in this thread. He's acting like kelly in my opinion.

Axegrinder

01-20-2006, 11:59 AM

Ibleedburgundy

01-20-2006, 12:02 PM

You really act an a$$ most times. So, because he went to a college you don't like and votes a certain way, he cannot criticize your lame posts in this forum? I'm a very moderate republican, went to a liberal college, born in a blue state who knows you're a hack.

I'm willing to bet I have voted for more Republicans than Fent has voted for Democrats. You can call me a hack all you want but really it's just personal between us ever since I ripped on your thesis.

akhhorus

01-20-2006, 12:05 PM

Got Gov't?
It kind of sticks in the mind like flip-flop,doesn't it?

You're doing it again Axe. This is no different than what kelly would do.

fent

01-20-2006, 12:05 PM

I'm willing to bet I have voted for more Republicans than Fent has voted for Democrats. You can call me a hack all you want but really it's just personal between us ever since I ripped on your thesis.

actually, you're probably wrong. growing up in Texas and Oklahoma, dems and republicans are, for the most part, so similar that you could basically flip a coin.

BurgundyNGold

01-20-2006, 12:06 PM

Is anybody else looking around for Archduke Ferdinand?

fent

01-20-2006, 12:06 PM

You're doing it again Axe. This is no different than what kelly would do.

i'm glad it's not just dave and i that see this. there goes the "it's just a partisan attack" argument.

RedskinsDave

01-20-2006, 12:07 PM

Got Gov't?
It kind of sticks in the mind like flip-flop,doesn't it?

I'll do so when you get down from your high horse and tell me your motivation for going to D.C.?
You're serving in government,why?

Got Good Government?
Me neither.
These folks are "out of touch"!
And they have the nerve to dog Howard Dean.

Contract with America?
With whom?
Enough said here.

The prosecution rests.

akhhorus

01-20-2006, 12:07 PM

I'm willing to bet I have voted for more Republicans than Fent has voted for Democrats.

Considering that I'm a Republican, this is a ridiculous comparison. If I was a Democrat, then it would be a good one.

You can call me a hack all you want but really it's just personal between us ever since I ripped on your thesis.

You didn't rip my thesis, you ripped me. Something which you never apologized for(even though you were supposed to do if I recall). And that has nothing to do with how much of a fool I think you are. A fool is a fool no matter what they think about me.

Axegrinder

01-20-2006, 12:08 PM

Axe has given great, insightful posts in the past; but recently his posts have been kelly-esque. He just wants to run in, slam fent or dave's position and run out without actually debating the issues, and sometimes get a slam in on fent's former boss(which is out of line). And he brings up Ed Schrock whether its relevant or not. I like Axe, but his arguments here recently are annoying. He's giving great examples of this in this thread. He's acting like kelly in my opinion.
You guys don't like open ended questions.
You don't like my insinuations.Why?

I'm not majoring in,nor am I working in government.
I'm am a bluecollar working class person like most of Americans.
I am dissatisfied with the elitists in Washington and those that defend them.
If you fall into one of these categories,I'm dissatisfied with you and I'm expressing my opinion.
This is an election year.
I'm only hearing dissatisfaction from the right.Why?

Keino

01-20-2006, 12:08 PM

Sean you know darn well that if all a conservative in the forum did was offer one liners and hardly ever offer any substantive answer that he/she would be called on it. The funny part is that Fent and I would probably be a part of that. After repeatedly offering nothing more than one-liners or "got government" shots, Axe was asked to explain himself. What's so wrong with that?

There's nothing wrong with that, but recently I was accused of the same action (not adding to the forum, instigating etc etc etc) when I offered a flippant one liner. Dave, I have enormous respect for you, but you are the one liner king of this forum.

There's nothing wrong with asking him to defend his position, but my point is that Axe has not obligation to do that. It's not like the rest of the readers of the thread won't see that's exactly what happened, and they can take the opinion for what its worth in their respective minds.

I mean really, does he have to defend the general opinion that Big Business screws over the average guy, and that Govt. is in cahoots with Big business? One need only look at the amount of lobbying dollars and the need for Lobbying reforms to come away with that general conclusion.

Axegrinder

01-20-2006, 12:09 PM

The prosecution rests.
Thank you for prosecuting me.:)

fent

01-20-2006, 12:15 PM

You guys don't like open ended questions.
You don't like my insinuations.Why?

I'm not majoring in,nor am I working in government.
I'm am a bluecollar working class person like most of Americans.
I am dissatisfied with the elitists in Washington and those that defend them.
If you fall into one of these categories,I'm dissatisfied with you and I'm expressing my opinion.
This is an election year.
I'm only hearing dissatisfaction from the right.Why?

and you don't like answering questions or backing up your insinuations that i'm corrupt just because i work in D.C. and won't tell you why.

if you're dissatisfied with the elitists in washington, then why support the party you do. show me one democratic leader up here that isn't just as wealthy as his republican counterpart. what you are supporting is the myth that the democratic party will raise every poor man to wealth. they held control for almost half a century and that didn't happen. in fact, if i recall, gas prices reached record highs and caused a crisis and the economy was in shambles not too long ago when the federal government was controlled by dems.

akhhorus

01-20-2006, 12:16 PM

You guys don't like open ended questions.
You don't like my insinuations.Why?

Axe,the problem is with the messenger, not the message. You can have any opinion you like, but the way you deliever it is kelly-like.

I'm not majoring in,nor am I working in government.
I'm am a bluecollar working class person like most of Americans.
I am dissatisfied with the elitists in Washington and those that defend them.
If you fall into one of these categories,I'm dissatisfied with you and I'm expressing my opinion.
This is an election year.
I'm only hearing dissatisfaction from the right.Why?

And you can beleive what you want, the problem is with how you take subtle shots at fent for no reason(even your dissatisfaction with Washington politics/politicians is no reason for attacking him, no matter who he has worked for) and don't actual debate the issue.

RedskinsDave

01-20-2006, 12:18 PM

There's nothing wrong with that, but recently I was accused of the same action (not adding to the forum, instigating etc etc etc) when I offered a flippant one liner. Dave, I have enormous respect for you, but you are the one liner king of this forum.

There's nothing wrong with asking him to defend his position, but my point is that Axe has not obligation to do that. It's not like the rest of the readers of the thread won't see that's exactly what happened, and they can take the opinion for what its worth in their respective minds.

I mean really, does he have to defend the general opinion that Big Business screws over the average guy, and that Govt. is in cahoots with Big business? One need only look at the amount of lobbying dollars and the need for Lobbying reforms to come away with that general conclusion.

No but he has to defend why he thinks big business is somehow going to make New Orleans whiter when he says it will. He still never did that and actually hurt his own claim by tossing in eminent domain.

I know I am the one liner leader here but I also know that anyone and everyone in this forum also knows that I will defend my position with much more than one liners.

Your and my politics could not be more opposite but I have no doubt in my mind that you will offer a complete and articulate response to anything of mine you disagree with. That is why I have respect for what you post even when I still disagree.

Axegrinder

01-20-2006, 12:25 PM

and you don't like answering questions or backing up your insinuations that i'm corrupt just because i work in D.C. and won't tell you why.

if you're dissatisfied with the elitists in washington, then why support the party you do. show me one democratic leader up here that isn't just as wealthy as his republican counterpart. what you are supporting is the myth that the democratic party will raise every poor man to wealth. they held control for almost half a century and that didn't happen. in fact, if i recall, gas prices reached record highs and caused a crisis and the economy was in shamble not too long ago when the federal government was controlled by dems.
I support the lesser of two evils.[THAT IS MY OPINION!!!:) ]

In my view,maybe you're affected with guilt by association.
A closer association than most.

As far as your motivation for going to D.C.,are you trying to make the world a better place?Or...are you going because of ambition?
My guess is the latter.[That is also my opinion!:) ]

I'll expect that you'll take issue with all of these,but so what.
Your party has done little for me and from what I've seen,you've done little to change that.

fent

01-20-2006, 12:26 PM

I support the lesser of two evils.[THAT IS MY OPINION!!!:) ]

In my view,maybe you're affected with guilt by association.
A closer association than most.

As far as your motivation for going to D.C.,are you trying to make the world a better place?Or...are you going because of ambition?
My guess is the latter.[That is also my opinion!:) ]

I'll expect that you'll take issue with all of these,but so what.
Your party has done little for me and from what I've seen,you've done little to change that.

which is to be expected being as you know as much about my work up here as i know about painting a truck.

also, what do you base your opinion on? just the fact that you know who i work for? that's a pretty lame reason to make an assumption about me, especially when it comes to something as serious as my character. i really do take offense to you coming out on a public message board and calling to question my integrity when you have nothing to base that on.

akhhorus

01-20-2006, 12:31 PM

I support the lesser of two evils.[THAT IS MY OPINION!!!:) ]
In my view,maybe you're affected with guilt by association.
A closer association than most.

1-I would bet that Fent didn't have any policymaking or major decision making power when he worked for Delay.
2-The guy he works for now has a good reputation for being clean.
3-By your standard, we can hold anyone who supports or works for a Dem who is corrupt as part of the problem.

As far as your motivation for going to D.C.,are you trying to make the world a better place?Or...are you going because of ambition?
My guess is the latter.[That is also my opinion!:) ]

And all/any the Dems go to Washington for virtue and civics? LMAO

I'll expect that you'll take issue with all of these,but so what.
Your party has done little for me and from what I've seen,you've done little to change that.

And your party has done little to do anything to fix the world/country either. The GOP is doing what they think is right, and while you might disagree with that, its no different that what the Dems do.

RedskinsDave

01-20-2006, 12:32 PM

So Axe, what exactly have you done to change the culture of the big bad evil business you work for? Ford's done nothing for me and from what I see, you've done little to change that.

dj_stouty

01-20-2006, 12:33 PM

*Chomp*

http://re2.mm-c1.yimg.com/image/1141643716

This is getting good...

Axegrinder

01-20-2006, 12:40 PM

Without mentioning names,some of you are bullies.
You've been that way since I've joined,and it isn't regulated to just this forum.
You know who you are,we[the membership] know who you are.

I've given the same courtesy as others have been afforded by you.You guys need to remember that.
We can do the facts issue,but it's the personality part that we're "all" talking about here.
We disagree.So what.
This thread has now been diverted into the prosecute Axe thread.
I'm not going to apologize for anything that I've posted here,but I am sorry that we're off topic.

Axegrinder

01-20-2006, 12:42 PM

So Axe, what exactly have you done to change the culture of the big bad evil business you work for? Ford's done nothing for me and from what I see, you've done little to change that.
I go to work and pay taxes to keep some of you[in gov't] working.:)
Is that pc enough for you.

akhhorus

01-20-2006, 12:50 PM

Without mentioning names,some of you are bullies.
You've been that way since I've joined,and it isn't regulated to just this forum.
You know who you are,we[the membership] know who you are.

Gee, wonder who you're talking about.... :rolleyes: No one is bullying you here.

I've given the same courtesy as others have been afforded by you.You guys need to remember that.
We can do the facts issue,but it's the personality part that we're "all" talking about here.
We disagree.So what.
This thread has now been diverted into the prosecute Axe thread.
I'm not going to apologize for anything that I've posted here,but I am sorry that we're off topic.

Axe, you don't get it. You're entitled to whatever opinion you want and entitled to post it here, but you're personalizing your political beliefs and making fent the target of your anger. Thats just wrong. On top of that, you won't acually debate things of late. You just want to dance in and take a kelly-like shot at Dave or fent and run out without actually talking about the issue. You used to come here and really express yourself well(whether I agreed with you or not), but of late, you've just wanted to act like kelly. Now, if you want to take this opinion as "prosecution" or "bullying", go ahead. But its not meant in that way. And you have no right to whine about how you're being treated because of the way you've been treating fent.

RedskinsDave

01-20-2006, 12:51 PM

I go to work and pay taxes to keep some of you[in gov't] working.:)
Is that pc enough for you.

I always paid taxes when I worked for the government.

I have rented Fords so I guess I have helped keep you working too.

Axegrinder

01-20-2006, 12:54 PM

I always paid taxes when I worked for the government.

I have rented Fords so I guess I have helped keep you working too.
I love it when we work together.

Axegrinder

01-20-2006, 01:23 PM

Gee, wonder who you're talking about.... :rolleyes: No one is bullying you here.

Axe, you don't get it. You're entitled to whatever opinion you want and entitled to post it here, but you're personalizing your political beliefs and making fent the target of your anger. Thats just wrong. On top of that, you won't acually debate things of late. You just want to dance in and take a kelly-like shot at Dave or fent and run out without actually talking about the issue. You used to come here and really express yourself well(whether I agreed with you or not), but of late, you've just wanted to act like kelly. Now, if you want to take this opinion as "prosecution" or "bullying", go ahead. But its not meant in that way. And you have no right to whine about how you're being treated because of the way you've been treating fent.
Go back and see who called out who first.
Then go back and look at the Nagin thread and do the same.
Fent is not a victim and I'm not running from a fight.

I like Fent,but he doesn't represent my views.
He doesn't represent a large portion of America's views either.

On a personal note,I only question his role and purpose in the GOP.
Of course,it's his business on whether he cares to share that with the group.
If he doesn't,he doesn't.
Whether he likes it or not,he's a frontliner of the GOP here at hR.
He's worked for Delay.[in the office]
Because of that..... he has to deal with the consequences.
I have never once heard him disassociate himself from Delay.
Why?At this time it would be political suicide,that is,if he's ambitious.
Having said all of that,I'll try not to offend Fent while throwing rocks at his party!

RedskinsDave

01-20-2006, 01:28 PM

I think when an intelligent grown man calls himself a "glorified secretary" it is disassociation.

Axegrinder

01-20-2006, 01:30 PM

I think when an intelligent grown man calls himself a "glorified secretary" it is disassociation.
Don't set the bar too low.

RedskinsDave

01-20-2006, 01:32 PM

Don't set the bar too low.

What do you want him to do, testify?

akhhorus

01-20-2006, 01:33 PM

Go back and see who called out who first.
Then go back and look at the Nagin thread and do the same.
Fent is not a victim and I'm not running from a fight.

I like Fent,but he doesn't represent my views.
He doesn't represent a large portion of America's views either.

His views seem to be the majority of American's views(his or close to it) since his party has won the last 4 election cycles.

On a personal note,I only question his role and purpose in the GOP.

So, you think he doesn't believe what he believes, and only expounds it for cynical personal gain?

Of course,it's his business on whether he cares to share that with the group.
If he doesn't,he doesn't.
Whether he likes it or not,he's a frontliner of the GOP here at hR.

So? He's not the official GOP defender. You cannot associate him with the GOP views any more than I can associate you with the views of the Dems. You can't hold him responsible for Tom Delay's shenanigans, since he's notthe one who did them.

He's worked for Delay.[in the office]
Because of that..... he has to deal with the consequences.

So what? He didn't have any power of decision making in that office. I volunteered for my congressman down here, does that mean I can be held responsible when he bangs sorority girls in his hotel room downtown?

I have never once heard him disassociate himself from Delay

I've never heard him mindlessly defend Delay. Either here or in private.

Why?At this time it would be political suicide,that is,if he's ambitious.

Actually, it would politically advantageous to trash Delay publically now...

Having said all of that,I'll try not to offend Fent while throwing rocks at his party!

Then throw rocks at his party and don't be a jerk and throw rocks at him. By your standards, I can call you out personally if my ford explorer breaks down or falls apart.

akhhorus

01-20-2006, 01:35 PM

Don't set the bar too low.

Thats what he did for Delay, answer constinuant's mail. You're acting like he was the bagman for Delay between him and Abramoff. Which he wasn't.

fent

01-20-2006, 01:52 PM

wow...i leave for lunch and suddenly my integrity was SPECIFICALLY called into question. that's pretty good work on your part, Axe. so since i worked for DeLay as an intern and a general office go-for, i'm responsible for his policy and political decisions? since you work for ford can you tell me what you did to stop this, thus cleansing yourself of all fault by association?

http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ/MGArticle/WSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1128769432079

Also, in regard to your accusation that my views aren't representative of "a large portion of America's views," can you then explain to me why people that run on those views and values have been elected at a much higher rate than those of opposing views over the last decade?

Axegrinder

01-20-2006, 01:58 PM

Thats what he did for Delay, answer constinuant's mail. You're acting like he was the bagman for Delay between him and Abramoff. Which he wasn't.
I'm trying to leave this alone.

Are those jobs easy to come by?
If so,how do we get one?
Better yet,could you walk away from one?

Fent,I'm sorry that you're caught in the crosshairs.

I'm sure that those questions will offend,"Kelly style".

I'll see you guys on another topic.

Parting thought:I said "a lot of American's",not the voting majority.
You guys might want to quit reading into things that aren't there.

fent

01-20-2006, 02:00 PM

Are those jobs easy to come by?
If so,how do we get one?
Better yet,could you walk away from one?

answers to 1 and 2. easy to come by if you work hard. there are a million and one interns that want those entry level jobs, so 99.9% of getting the job is being in the right palce at that right time. one of the jobs i applied for before the leader's office hired me had over 250 resumes sent in.

answer to 3. don't have one because i don't know what the heck you're asking.

akhhorus

01-20-2006, 02:06 PM

I'm trying to leave this alone.

Are those jobs easy to come by?
If so,how do we get one?
Better yet,could you walk away from one?

As an intern and then as a gofer? Probably not that hard if you have a brain and are of the same political persuasion. Again, you want to hold fent responsiblefor something he can't be held responsible for. And I've been offered that same job with a couple SC politicians.

Fent,I'm sorry that you're caught in the crosshairs.

No, you're not. You're acting like you think he's an innocent bystander, you obviously have an axe to grind with him.

I'm sure that those questions will offend,"Kelly style".

I'll see you guys on another topic.

Don't bother if you're going to keep taking personal shots and posting in kelly's hand.

akhhorus

01-20-2006, 02:08 PM

answer to 3. don't have one because i don't know what the heck you're asking.

I believe he's trying to slam you again for working for Delay. That you should have walked away from the job because of who Delay is.

CNYSkinFan

01-20-2006, 02:17 PM

Uhm...so Abramoff killed someone?

fent

01-20-2006, 02:19 PM

Uhm...so Abramoff killed someone?

actually not him directly. he may have told an organized crime family to kill him, though. actually, there's little doubt that he did it. i've never heard of this guy that's defending him, but he's a raging dill-hole.

BurgundyNGold

01-20-2006, 02:21 PM

actually not him directly. he may have told an organized crime family to kill him, though. actually, there's little doubt that he did it. i've never heard of this guy that's defending him, but he's a raging dill-hole.
That's pretty much like pulling the trigger yourself. Wow, so Delay and several members of Congress are visibly only once removed from being associated with organized crime? That might even be bigger than the ethics charges.

CNYSkinFan

01-20-2006, 02:23 PM

actually not him directly. he may have told an organized crime family to kill him, though. actually, there's little doubt that he did it. i've never heard of this guy that's defending him, but he's a raging dill-hole.

Wow.....

I mean every time I think Abramoff can't get worse....it does.

Whoever sent Rogers out to stump better rethink it the next time Hardball calls.

fent

01-20-2006, 02:26 PM

Wow.....

I mean every time I think Abramoff can't get worse....it does.

Whoever sent Rogers out to stump better rethink it the next time Hardball calls.

here's one story on it, but it's not as in depth...i'll see if i can find it. if i remember correctly, the three that were charged with his murder are connected directly to abramoff.

Today's convictions for Abramoff's corporate takeover of the troubled cruise line dealt with a separate set of issues from the Washington-based felonies. Adam Kidan, his partner in the venture, pleaded guilty to similar charges last month. Among other things, they made phony financial transfers and failed to provide accurate financial information. A few months after the SunCruz sale, previous owner Konstantinos "Gus" Boulis was murdered near his Fort Lauderdale office; three individuals, including one with organized-crime ties, were subsequently charged.

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/01/abramoff_a_dail.html

akhhorus

01-20-2006, 02:30 PM

That's pretty much like pulling the trigger yourself. Wow, so Delay and several members of Congress are visibly only once removed from being associated with organized crime? That might even be bigger than the ethics charges.

The story is that 3 Gambino triggermen were busted for killing a guy that Abramoff owed money for buying a fleet of casino boats, and all three recieved "consulting fees" from Abramoff. And Abramoff's deal doesn't give him immunity from prosecution for that murder. I think this whole scandal might fall apart if Abramoff gets busted for murder.

fent

01-20-2006, 02:33 PM

CNYSkinFan

01-20-2006, 02:37 PM

fent

01-20-2006, 02:39 PM

Catering hit men? It's like that scene from New Jack City.

especially with a name like "big tony"

Axegrinder

01-20-2006, 02:41 PM

I believe he's trying to slam you again for working for Delay. That you should have walked away from the job because of who Delay is.
You are correct,although the word I would have used is "could".
This is a question of ethics.
Delay has been scandal ridden for years,nothing new.
He hasn't been convicted of anything yet,but those around him have been tainted.
I understand the loyalty factor,but where's the moral compass?
If those who worked for him condoned or turned a blind eye,what does it say about them and their party?
Then again,if he didn't have that knowledge.....
Draw your own conclusions.

akhhorus

01-20-2006, 02:42 PM

nevermind, the connection wasn't as strong as i thought. apparently one of the guys that they arrested for Boulis' death catered an event for abramoff and kidan at one point. the story i read when it came out made it sound like he actually worked for him on a consistent basis.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-927boulismurder,0,6594337.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines

Well, Abramoff did owe Boulis several million bucks, he has the obvious motive. And Boulis wasn't just murdered, he was executed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/27/AR2005092700980_2.html

According to the post....

SunCruz paid $145,000 to Moscatiello and his daughter for catering, consulting and "site inspections," Kidan said in a 2001 civil court deposition.

There is no evidence that food or drink was provided or that any consulting documents were prepared, according to court documents. The checks to Jennifer Moscatiello were made at Anthony Moscatiello's instruction, although his daughter provided no services for the money, Kidan said in his deposition.

fent

01-20-2006, 02:46 PM

You are correct,although the word I would have used is "could".
This is a question of ethics.
Delay has been scandal ridden for years,nothing new.
He hasn't been convicted of anything yet,but those around him have been tainted.
I understand the loyalty factor,but where's the moral compass?
If those who worked for him condoned or turned a blind eye,what does it say about them and their party?
Then again,if he didn't have that knowledge.....
Draw your own conclusions.

and i can tell you that you should have/could have walked away from Ford because they know that some of their products are faulty and have killed people like the article i put up here. when i worked for him, there was no reason, to my knowledge, to avoid him. the only thing people had against him was that he was a hardass and very machiavellian. again, where do you get off questioning my integrity when you have absolutely no knowledge of the situation. it's one thing to question my politics, and quite another to question my integrity. question my politics and we can still be friends. question my integrity with no basis for such accusations and you've lost all respect.

BurgundyNGold

01-20-2006, 02:48 PM

akhhorus

01-20-2006, 02:50 PM

You are correct,although the word I would have used is "could".
This is a question of ethics.
Delay has been scandal ridden for years,nothing new.
He hasn't been convicted of anything yet,but those around him have been tainted.
I understand the loyalty factor,but where's the moral compass?
If those who worked for him condoned or turned a blind eye,what does it say about them and their party?
Then again,if he didn't have that knowledge.....
Draw your own conclusions.

Wait a minute now. Delay has been cited for minor ethics violations by the house(which is hardly conclusive proof of anything, the violations were nothing major and considering that the accusations were from Texas political rivals, its hardly conclusive) but the indictment(which was a surprise since he wasn't a target until the very end) was the first time he was accused of anything remotely bad. And by then, Fent had moved on to another office.

That still doesn't justify you holding fent responsible for Delay's sins. Even when he worked for him, he didn't have any power or responsiblity. You want to hold him to an ethical standard that is beyond ridiculous. By this standard, I can hold you responsible for all of Ford's problems, or the problems I have with my Explorer.

akhhorus

01-20-2006, 02:52 PM

and i can tell you that you should have walked away from Ford because they know that some of their products are faulty and have killed people like the article i put up here. when i worked for him, there was no reason, to my knowledge, to avoid him. the only thing people had against him was that he was a hardass and very machiavellian. again, where do you get off questioning my integrity when you have absolutely no knowledge of the situation. it's one thing to question my politics, and quite another to question my integrity. question my politics and we can still be friends. question my integrity with no basis for such accusations and you've lost all respect.

And maybe we can hold Axe responsible for Henry Ford's anti-semitism also? Axe should have known that the man who started Ford was a nazi sympathsizer who endorsed some of the most hateful views towards the Jewish people in the United States, and Axe should have known better than to work for a company with a history like that.

Axegrinder

01-20-2006, 02:59 PM

And maybe we can hold Axe responsible for Henry Ford's anti-semitism also? Axe should have known that the man who started Ford was a nazi sympathsizer who endorsed some of the most hateful views towards the Jewish people in the United States, and Axe should have known better than to work for a company with a history like that.He also made folks go to church on Sunday and he had a goon squad too.
Yep,I know.:)
I didn't work there then.

akhhorus

01-20-2006, 03:30 PM

He also made folks go to church on Sunday and he had a goon squad too.
Yep,I know.:)
I didn't work there then.

And any malfeseanse that Delay did when Fent wasn't there can't be held against him either. And you've offered no proof or even outrageous accusations that fent was there when the corruption is going on, just that Fent should have known Delay's rep-just as you should have known Ford's rep beforehand. I can hold myself to this standard as well: How dare I work for the college of Charleston, in the 1950s the trustees sold the school to themselves for 1 dollar so they could privatize it to keep non-white students out of it. I should have known better than to work for such obvious racists.

Ibleedburgundy

01-20-2006, 03:41 PM

Wait a minute now. Delay has been cited for minor ethics violations by the house(which is hardly conclusive proof of anything, the violations were nothing major and considering that the accusations were from Texas political rivals, its hardly conclusive) but the indictment(which was a surprise since he wasn't a target until the very end) was the first time he was accused of anything remotely bad. And by then, Fent had moved on to another office.

That still doesn't justify you holding fent responsible for Delay's sins. Even when he worked for him, he didn't have any power or responsiblity. You want to hold him to an ethical standard that is beyond ridiculous. By this standard, I can hold you responsible for all of Ford's problems, or the problems I have with my Explorer.

I think Tom Delay sinned before 2004 and it was pretty easy to find out about it. We've already been through the Saipan thing. He blocked that vote in 2001 (certain Democrats took advantage of the Saipan arrangement as well and I would never vote for the ones that did).

Also I don't think it's accurate to say Axe is kelly-like. If you don't remember, Kelly rarely even typed words of her own, she just posted Boortz articles.

The other thing you keep saying on this thread is that Republicans must be more in agreement with the majority of Amercans because they keep winning elections. Personally, I think they won the last two Presidential elections based on falsehoods. They get wide-spread credit for being the small Government party and the party that is tough on the border. They have control of the entire Government and what have they done regarding these two key issues? Expand the FED like crazy and add a few border guards. Does the Republican leadership even believe in evolution? How about persistent-vegetative states? Even Bill Frist, a freakin' heart surgeon was acting like Terry Schaivo was watching that balloon and responing to it. That is not what mainstream America believed. Also, in November of 2004 Americans really didn't know if Bush's war in Iraq was based on false-pretences. Back then Republican voters were still holding out hope that the WMD's would appear and vindicate Bush or that they were moved to another country. If there were a Presidential election held right now, Bush would have an uphill battle. Good thing he held out all the falsehods just long enough to get 4 more years. Also, I think you made a comment that Democrats would bring the poor to be wealthy. Nobody said that and nobody believes that. The Democrats fight to raise minimum wage and the Republicans have successfully kept MW at the same rate for the last 7 years. If I were a MW worker, that would be a strike against the Republicans.

Anyway, I just wanted to say, there have not been very many new-comers to the Political forum. Maybe that's a sign that some of us (myself included) should lighten up and try to observe the rules a little better. They're good rules.

fent

01-20-2006, 03:48 PM

akhhorus

01-20-2006, 03:54 PM

I think Tom Delay sinned before 2004 and it was pretty easy to find out about it. We've already been through the Saipan thing. He blocked that vote in 2001 (certain Democrats took advantage of the Saipan arrangement as well and I would never vote for the ones that did).

And it brings up another point, since fent was strictly answers mail, phone calls and emails, how much could he have known? If we're going to castigate all those who work for politicians who are "rumored" to be corrupted, then there isn't an honest person in DC.

Also I don't think it's accurate to say Axe is kelly-like. If you don't remember, Kelly rarely even typed words of her own, she just posted Boortz articles.

And Kelly would just post like Axe has been, with single sentences that don't debate but just blather.

The other thing you keep saying on this thread is that Republicans must be more in agreement with the majority of Amercans because they keep winning elections. Personally, I think they won the last two Presidential elections based on falsehoods. They get wide-spread credit for being the small Government party and the party that is tough on the border. They have control of the entire Government and what have they done regarding these two key issues? Expand the FED like crazy and add a few border guards. Does the Republican leadership even believe in evolution? How about persistent-vegetative states? Even Bill Frist, a freakin' heart surgeon was acting like Terry Schaivo was watching that balloon and responing to it. That is not what mainstream America believed. Also, in November of 2004 Americans really didn't know if Bush's war in Iraq was based on false-pretences.

And people have been leaning republican since 1997. They might not agree with the whole GOP platform, but they agree with it enough so that they have won 4 straight elections. And do you fully agree with whatever the Democratic stance on the issues are this week?(ZING)

Back then Republican voters were still holding out hope that the WMD's would appear and vindicate Bush or that they were moved to another country. If there were a Presidential election held right now, Bush would have an uphill battle. Good thing he held out all the falsehods just long enough to get 4 more years.

Well, Bush wasn't that trusted on Iraq even during the election. And the reason the Dems lost was that Kerry was a terrible candidate and the Democratic party refuses to actually stand up for anything but: "Bush sucks". That won't win you elections.

Also, I think you made a comment that Democrats would bring the poor to be wealthy. Nobody said that and nobody believes that. The Democrats fight to raise minimum wage and the Republicans have successfully kept MW at the same rate for the last 7 years. If I were a MW worker, that would be a strike against the Republicans.

I didn't say that. And people don't vote from their pocketbooks, they vote out of fear and who looks like best organized. The Dems have completely failed to look remotely like a real political party since Clinton left.

Anyway, I just wanted to say, there have not been very many new-comers to the Political forum. Maybe that's a sign that some of us (myself included) should lighten up and try to observe the rules a little better. They're good rules.

Well, the new password feature might scare off people. And I've seen a lot of newbies lurking, but not posting here.

fent

01-20-2006, 04:03 PM

Also, I think you made a comment that Democrats would bring the poor to be wealthy. Nobody said that and nobody believes that. The Democrats fight to raise minimum wage and the Republicans have successfully kept MW at the same rate for the last 7 years. If I were a MW worker, that would be a strike against the Republicans.

i said that, and on the campaign trail, i can't tell you how many lower-class people told me they'd never vote against a democrat because they will make them wealthier.

CNYSkinFan

01-20-2006, 04:16 PM

i said that, and on the campaign trail, i can't tell you how many lower-class people told me they'd never vote against a democrat because they will make them wealthier.

As opposed to the wealthy who vote straight Republican because of the party's stance on lower taxes?

There are three distinct groups of poor in the country. The poor that vote Democratic because of the Democratic stances on minimum wages, worker rights, access to unions etc etc. Then there are the poor who vote mostly republican because of cultural issues that in their mind outweigh their own economic interest.

Unfortunately the third group is the largest, and that is the one that does not vote at all. They do not participate in a civil society. These are the people who will watch Jerry Springer every day but not watch a political debate once every four years because Fox is showing the conclusion of the Littlest Groom.

So before you lump one whole class together remember the GOP is actively courting the poor through the religious aspects of their platform, and this includes inner city african american churches. The whole gay marriage issue is a large example of that.

Paintedbird

01-20-2006, 08:16 PM

Question for Fent: What do you make of the insider trading scandal now spreading through the halls of congress? Does it dance with Abramoff legs? Who's going down? How far into the WH does it extend?

fent

01-20-2006, 11:56 PM

Question for Fent: What do you make of the insider trading scandal now spreading through the halls of congress? Does it dance with Abramoff legs? Who's going down? How far into the WH does it extend?

the only insider trading rumors i've heard were the ones with frist, but that was months ago and nothing has come of it, so it that's it, you know as much as i do, if it's something else, haven't a clue.

Axegrinder

01-21-2006, 01:44 AM

Due to recent events,I officially resign my post as Secretary of State of the Akhhorus Administration.;)

OCSkinzFan

01-21-2006, 02:33 AM

trying to make things better requires that i be ambitious. ambition is not a negative characteristic and without it, you don't survive in this town. go pay your bills and come back and baselessly question my integrity again. it'll be good fun.

Fent, have you met my friend Brutus?
Brutus is an honorable man.

I think ambition is the characteristic that has gotten the Repubs of late in the mess that they're in.

akhhorus

01-21-2006, 09:18 AM

Due to recent events,I officially resign my post as Secretary of State of the Akhhorus Administration.;)

Get a grip on reality, I believe your hold on it is becoming tenuous at best.

akhhorus

01-21-2006, 09:19 AM

Fent, have you met my friend Brutus?
Brutus is an honorable man.

Not to be picky, but the Senate was right in killing Caeser.

I think ambition is the characteristic that has gotten the Repubs of late in the mess that they're in.

I believe greed is the character flaw that has cost them the most of late.

Axegrinder

01-21-2006, 10:57 AM

akhhorus

01-21-2006, 11:01 AM

You're right that I've already lowered myself to that level.
Shameful as it was,it's about respect....or lack there of.

I'm not a martyr [or a suicide bomber :D],I'm just pointing out some of my observations.

I should probably make you happy and adjust my tinfoil hat now.

Axe, you just don't get it. You can believe whatever the hell you want to politically. No one is trying to oppress your beliefs here. I-and fent and Dave- take issue that you are transmuting your hatred for the GOP into hatred for individual people here and your holding one person responsible for sins that he is guiltless of just because of past association. And we take issue with how you've been posting here recently: you have been posting in a matter that is more disrespectful than anything we have done. You're showing zero respect for posters here of other political persusions and you are acting like kelly. And now you're trying to be the liberal marytr and take full out shots at us, which I really take issue with. I also now take issue that you're claiming that we're disrespecting certain members here. Well, the members you mention have done nothing to deserve respect, not only in this forum, but are pariahs throughout the board. And you're singling us out for sins that many others commit.

Axegrinder

01-21-2006, 11:44 AM

Ok ...now that the air has been cleared.
I know how you feel about me and my style,and now....you know the same.
Hopefully,we can move on.

fent

01-21-2006, 11:47 AM

Ok ...now that the air has been cleared.
I know how you feel about me and my style,and now....you know the same.
Hopefully,we can move on.

you'll forgive me if i'm an ass about this, but i'm not letting this die until you tell me why you've decided to call my integrity into question very publicly without any reason to do so. the air has in no way been cleared.

Ibleedburgundy

01-21-2006, 12:23 PM

absolutely nothing. your delusional if you think that the only "bullying" in this forum comes from the three of us. anyone remember why guys like higgybaby, camasterton, and the other conservative guys without a clue don't post in here? because guys like tom, dustin, you, and the "three bullies" don't let them get away with making ridiculous comments. quit playing the martyr card because the shoe doesn't fit.

and you really think that this we started the disrespect? go back and check out what IBB said about Akh's thesis before things got bad with him.

I didn't say that stuff until after Akh basically called me a child molestor. He denies it, and at the same times admits that he should be thrown out of HR if this is true. I didn't get any apology for that so really I don't feel like I should apologize to him even though I did at one point. In that case, the disrespect was abundantly going both ways and I think it would be very difficult to pinpoint who exactly started it. Anyway, I'm not trying to get anybody thrown out of HR. Live and let live.

Axegrinder

01-21-2006, 12:32 PM

You guys are entitled to your say.
I've dished it out pretty heavily and not only do I deserve your response,I expect one.

Fent.....
I'll answer your question when you've answered mine.

fent

01-21-2006, 12:35 PM

You guys are entitled to your say.
I've dished it out pretty heavily and not only do I deserve your response,I expect one.

Fent.....
I'll answer your question when you've answered mine.

i'm pretty sure i answered yours, you've just ignored it as you've ignored every question posed to you lately. furthermore, the questions are nowhere near on even par as your question was the manner in which you called my integrity into question. again, there is no comparison. so again, why do you feel the need to call into question my integrity in such a public manner?

RedskinsDave

01-21-2006, 12:38 PM

i'm pretty sure i answered yours, you've just ignored it as you've ignored every question posed to you lately. furthermore, the questions are nowhere near on even par and your question was the manner in which you called my integrity into question. again, there is no comparison. so again, why do you feel the need to call into question my integrity in such a public manner?

Don't hold your breath Monica. :banghead:

akhhorus

01-21-2006, 12:39 PM

I didn't say that stuff until after Akh basically called me a child molestor. He denies it, and at the same times admits that he should be thrown out of HR if this is true.

I did no such thing. If I did, I would have been banned. If you recall, the ownership was very interested in those posts in question. I questioned why you defended a guy like Michael Jackson, and why you were so stubborn in your prosecution of Tejada. I can't be responsible if you go into a paranoia frenzy over something you misinterpreted.

I didn't get any apology for that so really I don't feel like I should apologize to him even though I did at one point.

You actually never really apologized. You regretted heated discussion, which is much like knocking up your HS girlfriend and apologizing to her father about teen pregenancy in general.

CNYSkinFan

01-21-2006, 12:52 PM

This has turned into a Jim Rome style smackdown thread crossed with an Oprah style airing of grievances.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/44/Rodney_king.jpg

Can't we all just get along?

fent

01-21-2006, 12:54 PM

This has turned into a Jim Rome style smackdown thread crossed with an Oprah style airing of grievances.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/44/Rodney_king.jpg

Can't we all just get along?

apparently my lack of integrity keeps that from being a possibility. :rolleyes:

CNYSkinFan

01-21-2006, 01:05 PM

Seriously...everyone...this is getting nowhere.

I am not going to take sides in any of this debate but appeal to all of you. We all post in this forum and things get heated. Stupid things get said and then "dick head" momentum sets in and eventually things get personal.

If you feel you are wronged you will do no good in continuing the discussion, if you feel you did nothing wrong you will do no good in continuing a pointless line of discussion.

Seriously we have all had our skirmishes in this forum. RedskinDave and I use to go round and round about my use of "could of", BnG and I had a huge debate about the minimum wage, Fent and I have gone toe to toe on a variety of things. But after the discussion was doen everyone got along later. One of the cool things about this forum is, unlike other political forums on other sites, it rarely boils down to "you are evil/you are stupid" contentions.

I think everyone should take a step back....or else every discussion in this forum will become like this thread. And that would be a shame.

That's all I have to say on this.

fent

01-21-2006, 01:07 PM

Axegrinder

01-21-2006, 02:57 PM

After mulling things over,I think that it's probably in eveyone's best interest that I apologize for my statements and move off of this topic.

To the three whom I've called out by name,my sincerest apologies.
I'd also like to apologize to the rest of the group for wasting your time on my personal transgressions.

Hopefully,others will have learned something from this.
I know that I have.

OCSkinzFan

01-22-2006, 12:32 AM

Not to be picky, but the Senate was right in killing Caeser.
Yep, my point was that Caesar was ambitious and that Brutus (and the senate) killed him because of it.

I believe greed is the character flaw that has cost them the most of late.
I believe that without ambition (in the classical sense of the word) there wouldn't be THAT sort of greed.

But yes, the culture of greed is the swamp of today's Foggy Bottom.

OCSkinzFan

01-22-2006, 12:49 AM

Wow I just read the rest of this thread.

You guys are all great;
get it togeather, that's why this forum is so good.

I need to go and sharpen the point on my head now soI'llshudupnow

Booser

01-22-2006, 11:54 AM

wow - i was gone for a week and i missed a good one. funny how politics and religion get everyone all heated, you know? i suppose that's part of the fun.

flave1969

01-22-2006, 06:56 PM

I just remembered why I dislike this forum so much after reading this lot. It used to be fun and interesting and I used to learn a lot about American politics. All I learn these days is to stay away.

BurgundyNGold

01-22-2006, 06:58 PM

I just remembered why I dislike this forum so much after reading this lot. It used to be fun and interesting and I used to learn a lot about American politics. All I learn these days is to stay away.
This is what the Prime Minister must say about the House of Commons, lol.

flave1969

01-22-2006, 07:15 PM

This is what the Prime Minister must say about the House of Commons, lol.

If he just stepped back and took stock of the real issues at home then he may find it a nicer place.

Iraq has done him more damage than he would ever care to admit. He is losing a lot of votes in Parliament simply because he continues to step away from the values of his own party and the old school MP's are motivated to bloody his nose at every turn.

Good policies are treated like bad because of the way Blair conducts Government. I voted for him but I am sick to death of what this country has become.

Paintedbird

01-27-2006, 01:09 PM

And to add grace to that, here's my apologia. In normal times, debating would be appropriate, with all the rules observed; but what the left faces here is far from a rational right, but rather one in denial after and during a run of stunning, historic, and catastrophic failures. As representatives of the right, you're suffering a temporary dementia: you resist all evidence supporting the obvious, attack all sources reporting the obvious, and apparently avoid the news, frequently demanding links for material that is all over the net and in the papers.
You resort to ad hominem attacks as a first line of defense against the obvious; frequently misstate others' remarks so as refute positions no one has stated; and feed in packs so as to achieve an Amen corner effect.
You're extremely knowledgable about dots that have no bite, but refuse to connect them in apparent fear they might, and are obsessed with justifying questionable behavior of the right by claiming past administations were guilty of the same crimes or finding precedents, as if they excused present behaviour.

(This paragraph optional)
The right has brought forth the following: elective war built on lies, failure to supply our troops, failure to protect the country from terrorist attack, failure to protect the country from natural disaster, ruinous fiscal policy and unfair taxation, unconstitutional merging of church and state, deliberate destruction of government agencies, accelerated destruction of the environment, torture policy, secret prisons, lying to congress, war crimes, massive conflicts of interest, kidnapping of suspects, illegal detention of war prisoners, violations of the Geneva conventions and other international agreements, illegal wiretapping, domestic spying, the Abramoff scandal, the outing of a CIA agent by WH officials, the buying of media coverage, three stolen elections, human traffiking, protection of sweat shops, massacre of Taliban prisoners, killing of up to 100,000 Iraqi civilians, deaths of over 2,000 Americans, the creation of a Muslim government in Iraq, the loss of allies, the creating of thousands of new recruits for terrorists groups, the deliberate attempt to create fear in America for political gain, etc.
(End of optional material)

How much of that are you guys prepared to face emotionally. Not much, and that's no wonder. My point is that it's hard to debate with you right now; you're a mass of defenses. When we debate, we find ourselves debating that absurbly predictable mass, not fully rational beings. History will be harder on this Presidency than it is on Nixon and will absolutely roast this congress, the Republicans for their corruption, Democrats for their cowardice.

Bush's claim to be above the law, to be able to spy on whom he pleases, to torture whom he pleases, etc., regardless of the Supremes and Congress...and his insistence that laws mean what he interprets them to mean is so far beyond the pale that he has made himself a furture object of derision for the next century. King George. He is insane. If you can't see that, I suggest you have a talk with yourself....

IBB and AXE Grinder have a grip. The king has no clothes.