Soldier slaps Moran around

[RedskinsDave]

Okay, I have no idea how old this is, but it's still funny as all get out.

http://czabe.com/mediaclips/index.shtml?a=showclip&id=443

The best part is Moron's complete ability to act like it never happened, sort of how he treated marriage I think.

[Ibleedburgundy]

At least Moran has the balls to take real questions from real people. He could have easily set up a fake Q & A, like the Bush administration does.

[BurgundyNGold]

At least Moran has the balls to take real questions from real people. He could have easily set up a fake Q & A, like the Bush administration does.
Let me guess, Moran is a Dem?

[RedskinsDave]

At least Moran has the balls to take real questions from real people. He could have easily set up a fake Q & A, like the Bush administration does.

You're joking right? Moron's response was "that wasn't in the form of a question." Wow, thanks Congressman, I didn't realize you care so deeply about our servicemen ONLY when they exist is whatever fantasy world you live in. All he had to do was apologize and tell the man he would look into it but he didn't even have the "balls" to do that.

[redskin_rich]

Let me guess, Moran is a Dem?
Oh you know who Moran is, maybe this will refresh your memory:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/03/11/moran.jews/

[RedskinsDave]

Oh you know who Moran is, maybe this will refresh your memory:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/03/11/moran.jews/

Well that's what we get when NoVa libs walk into a booth and ignore who they're actually voting for, a Buffalo liberal who was forced to resign as deputy mayor in the 80's and who scandal has never been far behind.

[Ibleedburgundy]

You're joking right? Moron's response was "that wasn't in the form of a question." Wow, thanks Congressman, I didn't realize you care so deeply about our servicemen ONLY when they exist is whatever fantasy world you live in. All he had to do was apologize and tell the man he would look into it but he didn't even have the "balls" to do that.


It wasn't a question. The guy said troop morale is up and Moran is wrong. Moran is not going to base his entire view of troop morale on what one guy says. Besides, Politicians can hardly apologize for anything these days because people would take that as a sign of weakness and jump all over him. It's a no-win situation.

Honestly, would you applaud Moran if he apologized?

Ironically, RedskinRich just provided a link to a situation where Moran did apologize.

[BurgundyNGold]

Oh you know who Moran is, maybe this will refresh your memory:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/03/11/moran.jews/
Yeah, I remember that guy. I was wildly speculating why IBB might jump, in and blindly defend such a tool. I chose to go with the "IBB defends anyone and anything left of center blindly without cause to reason" angle. ;)

[BurgundyNGold]

Ironically, RedskinRich just provided a link to a situation where Moran did apologize.
Well, duh. The clown made anti-Semitic remarks. As I understand it, he's prone to making such insensitive statements. I guess we should count ourselves lucky that he's not dressed up an a bedsheet this week.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Let me guess, Moran is a Dem?


haha. You could have come to that same conclusion based purely on the fact that RedskinsDave is bashing him.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Well, duh. The clown made anti-Semitic remarks. As I understand it, he's prone to making such insensitive statements. I guess we should count ourselves lucky that he's not dressed up an a bedsheet this week.


I really don't see how saying Jewish people have influence over the Bush administration is anti-semitic. Whether it's true or not is a different story. If Moran said the black community had influence over John Kerry would that be anti-black?

[BurgundyNGold]

haha. You could have come to that same conclusion based purely on the fact that RedskinsDave is bashing him.
I expect a partisan thread from the thread starter. Dave, Spence, Fent, or whomever starts a thread. However, I didn't expect anyone on the Dem side to come to that racist's defense strictly because he's a Dem. Good show.

[fent]

I really don't see how saying Jewish people have influence over the Bush administration is anti-semitic. Whether it's true or not is a different story. If Moran said the black community had influence over John Kerry would that be anti-black?

he was placing part of the blame for going to war at their feet. jews were offended because, in light of the divisiveness of the steps to war, Moron was painting an entire race in a very negative light for absolutely no reason.

[Ibleedburgundy]

I expect a partisan thread from the thread starter. Dave, Spence, Fent, or whomever starts a thread. However, I didn't expect anyone on the Dem side to come to that racist's defense strictly because he's a Dem. Good show.


Can't say I am an expert on Moran. Do you have a link that shows he is a racist?

[BurgundyNGold]

I really don't see how saying Jewish people have influence over the Bush administration is anti-semitic. Whether it's true or not is a different story. If Moran said the black community had influence over John Kerry would that be anti-black?
Nancy Pelosi seemed to think so when she called his remarks "offensive".

[Ibleedburgundy]

Nancy Pelosi seemed to think so when she called his remarks "offensive".


Yes, but she does not agree with you that he is racist or anti-semitic.

[BurgundyNGold]

Can't say I am an expert on Moran. Do you have a link that shows he is a racist?
His remarks speak for themself.

[BurgundyNGold]

Yes, but she does not agree with you that he is racist or anti-semitic.
Did she consider the remarks "offensive" and Steny Hoyer think the remarks were "stupid" because he used bad words? No, because they were anti-Semitic and racist in tone. Is he a racist? In my opinion he is. In any event, you could pick from a long list of other, less shall we say "storied" Dems, to blindly defend.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Thinking that Jewish people have interests in the middle-east is not anti-semitism or racism. You must have something better to back back up your bold accusations.

[BurgundyNGold]

Thinking that Jewish people have interests in the middle-east is not anti-semitism or racism. You must have something better to back back up your bold accusations.
So I am the only one who thinks that guy made an insensitive, anti-Semitic remarks? ROTFLMAO! You should take your head out of the sand. I am hardly the only person to think that his statements were offensive. The whole town was up in arms about it, not just his political opponents.

I doubt that I am the only one to think he is anti-Semitic. His deepening series of apologies didn't look like he was particulary taken out of context either.

[Ibleedburgundy]

I agree that those remarks are insensitive, and inaccurate. I just don't agree that they are anti-semitic.

[BurgundyNGold]

I agree that those remarks are insensitive, and inaccurate. I just don't agree that they are anti-semitic.
Why didn't he single out Christians or Muslims? Many of them wanted to go to war too. That particular ethnicity is the smallest of the 3 if I'm not mistaken. So how could they have been so much more influential in pushing us into war? That kind of logic smacks of the old Nazi stigma of the Jews secretly running everything, so they're to blame. That, my myopic friend, is how it can and has been construed as anti-Semitic.

[RedskinsDave]

I agree that those remarks are insensitive, and inaccurate. I just don't agree that they are anti-semitic.

So if I were to say that Jews control Hollywood and that's why Hollywood is so liberal would THAT be anti-semitic? He made the same accusation about why we went to war.

[RedskinsDave]

Yes, but she does not agree with you that he is racist or anti-semitic.

So tell me, why would Nancy find them offensive? Were they grammatically incorrect? Poor verbage? What? I am pretty sure the REASON they were offensive was because they were anti-semitic.

[RedskinsDave]

Can't say I am an expert on Moran.

Funny you would choose to defend the guy then.......

[Spence]

Moran's remarks were obviously anti-Semitic. Does that make him an anti-Semite? It would if he has a history of such things. I daresay we've all said something that could easily be construed as bigoted. If a person says something like that once and doesn't have a history of such things, I think it is going too far to call him or her a bigot. So, does Moran have a history of making anti-Semitic remarks? I don't know. I know he has a history of making pugnacious remarks and if I had to make a list of Congressmen most likely to get into a fist fight on the floor of the House, he'd be right at the top of the list.

So, why do his constituents support him? Simple: He brings home the bacon. Very few members of Congress fight for federal employees the way he does and that gets him a lot of votes in his district. I know many Democrats regard Moran as something of an embarrassment because of his loose tongue and fiery temper and that helps to explain why they've mostly kept him away from leadership positions. He faced a primary challenge in 2004 from a young Jewish Democrat and Moran's history of questionable public utterances was a big factor in the campaign. Moran won easily, though, based on his long list of favors done for constituents and the fact that the challenger was someone with no money and no name recognition.

[Ibleedburgundy]

So if I were to say that Jews control Hollywood and that's why Hollywood is so liberal would THAT be anti-semitic?

You might be wrong but not necessarily anti-semitic IMO. I hear people link Jews to hollywood all the time (Jon Stewert). Besides, I think a comment of that nature would be inaccurate because Jewish people are not all Republicans or Democrats. They are split. If you differentiate orthodox jews from other jews then I think you can find more decisive political boundries.

[RedskinsDave]

You might be wrong but not necessarily anti-semitic IMO. I hear people link Jews to hollywood all the time (Jon Stewert). Besides, I think a comment of that nature would be inaccurate because Jewish people are not all Republicans or Democrats. They are split. If you differentiate orthodox jews from other jews then I think you can find more decisive political boundries.

Gee, I think that's exactly why Moran's comments were.......anti-semitic. :rolleyes:

[Ibleedburgundy]

Funny you would choose to defend the guy then.......

I watched a large portion of that conference one night on C-SPAN a month or two ago. There were other soldiers at that conference who disagreed with the one from the clip you provided. I don't really agree with Murtha/Moran that pulling our troops out of Iraq over the next 6 months is the best course of action. I am also against people who call Murtha a coward and act like dissent is unAmerican and unpatriotic.

[RedskinsDave]

I watched a large portion of that conference one night on C-SPAN a month or two ago. There were other soldiers at that conference who disagreed with the one from the clip you provided. I don't really agree with Murtha/Moran that pulling our troops out of Iraq over the next 6 months is the best course of action. I am also against people who call Murtha a coward and act like dissent is unAmerican and unpatriotic.

Uh, ookay....that really explains why Moran and Murtha ignored the guy and even better explains Moran's comments about Jews. Oh wait, no it doesn't.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Uh, ookay....that really explains why Moran and Murtha ignored the guy and even better explains Moran's comments about Jews. Oh wait, no it doesn't.


They didn't ignore the guy. They listened to him which is more than you can say for the Bush administration.

To be fair, there was another guy who came back from Iraq and he was complaining about the Bush administration and how the troops are treated poorly and their benefits aren't enough-they didn't give him an answer either because he never got around to asking a question. There were dozens of questions that day. Again, your guy didn't even ask a question. He lectured them and pointed fingers and they still gave him just as much time as they gave anyone else.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Uh, ookay....that really explains why Moran and Murtha ignored the guy and even better explains Moran's comments about Jews. Oh wait, no it doesn't.


He apologized for those comments so you shouldn't hold those words against him. You were the one saying he should apologize to that soldier but at the same time you don't accept his previous apology. The guy can't win with you.

[RedskinsDave]

He apologized for those comments so you shouldn't hold those words against him. You were the one saying he should apologize to that soldier but at the same time you don't accept his previous apology. The guy can't win with you.

So because someone apologizes, those words can't be held against him anymore? Come on man, no one buys that load of crap and you wouldn't either if the person in question had an (R) next to his name.

[RedskinsDave]

They didn't ignore the guy. They listened to him which is more than you can say for the Bush administration.

To be fair, there was another guy who came back from Iraq and he was complaining about the Bush administration and how the troops are treated poorly and their benefits aren't enough-they didn't give him an answer either because he never got around to asking a question. There were dozens of questions that day. Again, your guy didn't even ask a question. He lectured them and pointed fingers and they still gave him just as much time as they gave anyone else.

They should have just had Drew Rosenhaus up there with his "next question" line at the ready.

Also, this soldier is not "my guy." But if I get all the guys who come home and are proud of their service and want to go back even and you get the guys who come home and complain about things, I can live with my numbers.

[BurgundyNGold]

Moran's remarks were obviously anti-Semitic. Does that make him an anti-Semite? It would if he has a history of such things. I daresay we've all said something that could easily be construed as bigoted. If a person says something like that once and doesn't have a history of such things, I think it is going too far to call him or her a bigot. So, does Moran have a history of making anti-Semitic remarks? I don't know. I know he has a history of making pugnacious remarks and if I had to make a list of Congressmen most likely to get into a fist fight on the floor of the House, he'd be right at the top of the list.
Moran has made other, less than flattering comments about Jews or Israel. When Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon came to Washington, Moran charged that the Israeli prime minister was "probably seeking a warrant from President [George W.] Bush to kill at will with weapons we have paid for." He has also been known to belittle Jews and Israel in general in opposition forums such as the American Muslim Council (AMC).

To top it off, Moran has one of the most anti-Israel voting records in the House. In 1999, Moran was one of only 24 members to vote against a congressional resolution expressing opposition to the unilateral declaration of a Palestinian state without a negotiated peace settlement. In 2000, he was one of only 20 members who voted against a resolution condemning the new wave of Palestinian terrorism against Israel.

His comments weren't made in a vacuum. Couple what he said with other aspects of his track record and it starts to paint a pretty clear picture of the guy being an anti-Semite.

Nobody has even mentioned his MBNA or lobbyist dealings. The guy is a sleeze. Is it so hard to think that he might be an anti-Semitic sleeze?

So, why do his constituents support him? Simple: He brings home the bacon. Very few members of Congress fight for federal employees the way he does and that gets him a lot of votes in his district. I know many Democrats regard Moran as something of an embarrassment because of his loose tongue and fiery temper and that helps to explain why they've mostly kept him away from leadership positions. He faced a primary challenge in 2004 from a young Jewish Democrat and Moran's history of questionable public utterances was a big factor in the campaign. Moran won easily, though, based on his long list of favors done for constituents and the fact that the challenger was someone with no money and no name recognition.
Another great example of why we should reform election law... again.

[Spence]

Moran has made other, less than flattering comments about Jews or Israel. When Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon came to Washington, Moran charged that the Israeli prime minister was "probably seeking a warrant from President [George W.] Bush to kill at will with weapons we have paid for." He has also been known to belittle Jews and Israel in general in opposition forums such as the American Muslim Council (AMC).

To top it off, Moran has one of the most anti-Israel voting records in the House. In 1999, Moran was one of only 24 members to vote against a congressional resolution expressing opposition to the unilateral declaration of a Palestinian state without a negotiated peace settlement. In 2000, he was one of only 20 members who voted against a resolution condemning the new wave of Palestinian terrorism against Israel.

His comments weren't made in a vacuum. Couple what he said with other aspects of his track record and it starts to paint a pretty clear picture of the guy being an anti-Semite.

Nobody has even mentioned his MBNA or lobbyist dealings. The guy is a sleeze. Is it so hard to think that he might be an anti-Semitic sleeze?An anti-Semitic sleaze? Surely there is no such thing! Hey, if you say he did all these things I'm willing to take your word for it. I don't follow Moran closely since he and I don't work on the same things, for the most part. I might give him a pass on the comment re Ariel Sharon if it was made a few years ago. Until recently, I correctly regarded Sharon as a brutal thug who enjoyed breaking Palestinian bones just a little too much. Turns out, eventually, he became a brutal thug who had a real plan for peaceful and separate co-existence with Palestinians. A plan I happen to like. But before Sharon embarked on his recent policies, I thought of him mostly as the architect of the Sabra and Shatila massacres -- atrocities that will stain Sharon's name forever, in any case.

The other stuff you mentioned about Moran is pretty difficult to excuse. I'm pretty suspicious of anyone who doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist within secure borders. Not everyone opposed to Zionism is an anti-Semite, but there is enough overlap to make me squint. Refusing to condemn suicide bombings is inexplicable. Sounds like Congressman Moran's got a problem.


Another great example of why we should reform election law... again.You've got to know you're preaching to the choir on that one.

[BurgundyNGold]

An anti-Semitic sleaze? Surely there is no such thing! Hey, if you say he did all these things I'm willing to take your word for it. I don't follow Moran closely since he and I don't work on the same things, for the most part. I might give him a pass on the comment re Ariel Sharon if it was made a few years ago. Until recently, I correctly regarded Sharon as a brutal thug who enjoyed breaking Palestinian bones just a little too much. Turns out, eventually, he became a brutal thug who had a real plan for peaceful and separate co-existence with Palestinians. A plan I happen to like. But before Sharon embarked on his recent policies, I thought of him mostly as the architect of the Sabra and Shatila massacres -- atrocities that will stain Sharon's name forever, in any case.

The other stuff you mentioned about Moran is pretty difficult to excuse. I'm pretty suspicious of anyone who doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist within secure borders. Not everyone opposed to Zionism is an anti-Semite, but there is enough overlap to make me squint. Refusing to condemn suicide bombings is inexplicable. Sounds like Congressman Moran's got a problem.


You've got to know you're preaching to the choir on that one.
I've never been a big Sharon fan, but considering the alternative people who could be in his position, well, he's the best of the lot if you're looking to move the peace process forward. The comment was in 2001 and -- regardless of Sharon's policies, the policies of an ally at that -- it was certainly defamatory. He has made some pretty rude comments about Israel in general, as well.

Moran is a clown. Getting into his little shoving match with Duke Cunningham was just another one of his antics. You are right, though. He brings home the bacon, which affords him many looks the other away. It's the Robert Byrd principle, I guess.

[BurgundyNGold]

Thinking that Jewish people have interests in the middle-east is not anti-semitism or racism. You must have something better to back back up your bold accusations.
Take a look at the reply I gave Spence for some more background on Moran's history of anti-Semitic and anti-Israeli behavior. You don't exactly have to dig too deep to find out about what a sleeze this guy is.

[RedskinsDave]

I don't know about this "bring home the bacon" thing either. He didn't get much done in BRAC to prevent Arlington from losing thousands of office tenants.

[BurgundyNGold]

I don't know about this "bring home the bacon" thing either. He didn't get much done in BRAC to prevent Arlington from losing thousands of office tenants.
Maybe there's not as much of a chance for him to bring home the bacon since Pelosi removed him from his leadership post. :whoknows:

[Ibleedburgundy]

whoa, this guy is classy! :)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A36673-2001May16?language=printer

[RedskinsDave]

whoa, this guy is classy! :)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A36673-2001May16?language=printer

My biggest question is where is there a remotely nice house on Walter Reed Dr? It's mostly apartments and the houses that are on it, I wouldn't buy.