So, the SOTU address...

[Fathead]

So what's going to be said? Will Pres. Bush be able to get an approval rating bump?


The consensus I'm seeing says he's not going to push anything major this year.

[CNYSkinFan]

Perhaps the follow up to the mission to mars State of the Union.


My wife won't watch them with me anymore after I cursed out Bush during the whole steroid section of the SOTU.

[Spence]

Bush will push something called Health Savings Accounts. It his attempt to do with Medicare that he tried to do with Social Security last year and I suspect it'll go over about as well. The idea is that Americans have too much health insurance. They need less. They want less. What Americans want is to lose their employee-based health insurance and replace it themselves through their own savings. That way, Americans can spend as much or little as they like on their own health care. The fact that Americans don't save money -- and a recent report had our savings rate at the lowest since the Great Depression -- will probably not figure prominently in Mr Bush's speech.

[akhhorus]

Bush will push something called Health Savings Accounts. It his attempt to do with Medicare that he tried to do with Social Security last year and I suspect it'll go over about as well. The idea is that Americans have too much health insurance. They need less. They want less. What Americans want is to lose their employee-based health insurance and replace it themselves through their own savings. That way, Americans can spend as much or little as they like on their own health care. The fact that Americans don't save money -- and a recent report had our savings rate at the lowest since the Great Depression -- will probably not figure prominently in Mr Bush's speech.

So, basically, Bush is calling for all health costs to be paid by the individual people. So, he's calling for the abolishment of all health insurance? Or is there some big joint quasi-public organization that he's talking about?

[RedskinsDave]

I expect something about nucular weapons and maybe something on fool me once shame on, uh, don't fool me again...... :)

[Spence]

So, basically, Bush is calling for all health costs to be paid by the individual people. So, he's calling for the abolishment of all health insurance? Or is there some big joint quasi-public organization that he's talking about?You pay for your own healthcare by putting a portion of your savings [so, for the average American, that'd be about 17 cents per month] into a Health Savings Account, which is tax-exempt. As you know, right now our health insurance is based mostly on the principle that the healthy subsidize the sick. What that means in practice is that young people pay for old people to get healthcare until those young people are old, when a new generation of young people pays for it. A contract between generations. Bush's plan would get rid of that and everyone would subsidize their own healthcare. There'll be lots of talk about taking control of your healthcare decision-making, just as the Social Security privatization campaign featured lots of talk about taking control of your pension and retirement-planning.

Here is why it'll fail: The dirty little secret is that people don't like risk and Americans -- for all our talk about what entrepreneurs we are -- are no different. That's the biggest reason by far for the immolation of Social Security privatization. Once people figured out it was a way to shift the risk burden from government to individuals, support evaporated. The same thing will happen here.

The fact is, people don't want any part of Mr Bush's "ownership society" if it means taking ownership of all the risk. Every poll indicates people think they have more than enough risk in their lives right now. They don't want more, no matter what the Cato Institute says.

[akhhorus]

You pay for your own healthcare by putting a portion of your savings [so, for the average American, that'd be about 17 cents per month] into a Health Savings Account, which is tax-exempt. As you know, right now our health insurance is based mostly on the principle that the healthy subsidize the sick. What that means in practice is that young people pay for old people to get healthcare until those young people are old, when a new generation of young people pays for it. A contract between generations. Bush's plan would get rid of that and everyone would subsidize their own healthcare. There'll be lots of talk about taking control of your healthcare decision-making, just as the Social Security privatization campaign featured lots of talk about taking control of your pension and retirement-planning.

Here is why it'll fail: The dirty little secret is that people don't like risk and Americans -- for all our talk about what entrepreneurs we are -- are no different. That's the biggest reason by far for the immolation of Social Security privatization. Once people figured out it was a way to shift the risk burden from government to individuals, support evaporated. The same thing will happen here.

The fact is, people don't want any part of Mr Bush's "ownership society" if it means taking ownership of all the risk. Every poll indicates people think they have more than enough risk in their lives right now. They don't want more, no matter what the Cato Institute says.

The problem with that is if it failed or there was some big scandal with the money(it is embezzled or the market collaspes), no one will have health insurance and the Govt will be forced to do what it doesnt want to do: uni. health care.

[Spence]

The problem with that is if it failed or there was some big scandal with the money(it is embezzled or the market collaspes), no one will have health insurance and the Govt will be forced to do what it doesnt want to do: uni. health care.Universal health care is coming and this time it'll have the enthusiastic support of a huge chunk of the business community. American businesses simply cannot continue to shoulder the healthcare burden because it puts them at a huge competitive disadvantage to foreign companies. The single biggest cost input into an American automobile is not glass or steal or rubber or plastic, it's healthcare. Our system of employer-based healthcare has absolutely hollowed out our industrial base, meaning hundreds of thousands of well-paying middle class jobs were destroyed and sent overseas. Bush is trying to deal with this by removing the burden from the employer and sticking it on the employee. It won't work. Our current systeam is awful, but the one Mr Bush envisages is worse. Essentially, almost nobody would have decent health insurance, including most of the people at this website. You'd need to be very wealthy or very lucky to avoid disaster. [Or you'd have to put every spare dime into your health savings account -- and even then it wouldn't save most people.] Dying slowly in America, after all, is very expensive.

[akhhorus]

Universal health care is coming and this time it'll have the enthusiastic support of a huge chunk of the business community. American businesses simply cannot continue to shoulder the healthcare burden because it puts them at a huge competitive disadvantage to foreign companies. The single biggest cost input into an American automobile is not glass or steal or rubber or plastic, it's healthcare. Our system of employer-based healthcare has absolutely hollowed out our industrial base, meaning hundreds of thousands of well-paying middle class jobs were destroyed and sent overseas. Bush is trying to deal with this by removing the burden from the employer and sticking it on the employee. It won't work. Our current systeam is awful, but the one Mr Bush envisages is worse. Essentially, almost nobody would have decent health insurance, including most of the people at this website. You'd need to be very wealthy or very lucky to avoid disaster. [Or you'd have to put every spare dime into your health savings account -- and even then it wouldn't save most people.] Dying slowly in America, after all, is very expensive.

If it happens, they might find all the members of Cato wearing black and purple nikes and dead from some mass suicide pact.

[Fathead]

All i have to say is that when I got run over by truck while in France, their healthcare system sucked royally. I had to wait 3 months to get an MRI because I "wasn't bleeding". So while I would love properly run universal healthcare, it has to be properly run.

[redskin_rich]

All i have to say is that when I got run over by truck while in France, their healthcare system sucked royally. I had to wait 3 months to get an MRI because I "wasn't bleeding". So while I would love properly run universal healthcare, it has to be properly run.
Were you a citizen of France?



Oh and for the uninterested lush's among us, I give you this year's edition of the SOTU Drinking game:

http://drinkinggame.us/

[CNYSkinFan]

If it happens, they might find all the members of Cato wearing black and purple nikes and dead from some mass suicide pact.
now that I'd buy for a dollar.

[VTBob]

Were you a citizen of France?



Oh and for the uninterested lush's among us, I give you this year's edition of the SOTU Drinking game:

http://drinkinggame.us/


oh man, I'm gonna be trashed tomorrow night!

[Axegrinder]

http://hamptonroads.cox.net/cci/newslocal/local?_mode=view&view=LocalNewsArticleView&articleId=1251816
(Richmond, VA) -- Virginia's Tim Kaine will offer the Democratic rebuttal to President Bush's State of the Union address tomorrow. The governor of less than three weeks says he agreed to speak on behalf of the Democrats after being promised "complete editorial control."

[RedskinsDave]

http://hamptonroads.cox.net/cci/newslocal/local?_mode=view&view=LocalNewsArticleView&articleId=1251816
(Richmond, VA) -- Virginia's Tim Kaine will offer the Democratic rebuttal to President Bush's State of the Union address tomorrow. The governor of less than three weeks says he agreed to speak on behalf of the Democrats after being promised "complete editorial control."

Talk about lame. With all the options this is who the dems pick?!! I would have thought the rising star Barak Obama would get the nod or someone with at least a semblance of leadership. They pick a novice, typical.

[Axegrinder]

Talk about lame. With all the options this is who the dems pick?!! I would have thought the rising star Barak Obama would get the nod or someone with at least a semblance of leadership. They pick a novice, typical.The last line in this may explain why.
http://hamptonroads.cox.net/cci/newslocal/local?_mode=view&view=LocalNewsArticleView&articleId=1251816
Fairfax State Senator Jay O'Brien says the choice of Kaine is the Democrats' way of proving the party is gaining voters in so-called red states."

[suppitty]

The last line in this may explain why.
http://hamptonroads.cox.net/cci/newslocal/local?_mode=view&view=LocalNewsArticleView&articleId=1251816
Fairfax State Senator Jay O'Brien says the choice of Kaine is the Democrats' way of proving the party is gaining voters in so-called red states."
Yeah, that's exactly what came to mind when I heard it. Virginia is still a red state, but things are changing as NoVa's population grows, and as local troops are forced to stay abroad. I'm pretty sure Warner could win the state in a Presidential election, although there are still 3 years for Tim Kaine to f it up for the democrats.

[Fathead]

Were you a citizen of France?



Oh and for the uninterested lush's among us, I give you this year's edition of the SOTU Drinking game:

http://drinkinggame.us/



No. But my insurance was paying them a hell of a lot of money for them to tell me that I was fine went I had a fractured skull.

[Spence]

Talk about lame. With all the options this is who the dems pick?!! I would have thought the rising star Barak Obama would get the nod or someone with at least a semblance of leadership. They pick a novice, typical.They're ripping off an idea from the Republicans, who chose political novice Christine Todd Whitman, the new governor of New Jersey, to give the State of the Union rebuttal speech back in the mid-1990s. I have no idea if Tim Kaine will deliver a good rebuttal, but there is no way the public will hold his lack of experience against him. It's better than shoving yet another old pol out there. The public has seen and his sick of those guys.

[fent]

anyone want to take a stab at what kind of crazy is going to happen tonight?
http://www.nbc11.com/news/6634368/detail.html

[redskin_rich]

anyone want to take a stab at what kind of crazy is going to happen tonight?
http://www.nbc11.com/news/6634368/detail.html
I bet she yells and gets removed. Why would she get an invite?

[fent]

I bet she yells and gets removed. Why would she get an invite?

some congresswoman wanted to make a name for herself tonight is the only reason i can think of that she would get one.

[akhhorus]

anyone want to take a stab at what kind of crazy is going to happen tonight?
http://www.nbc11.com/news/6634368/detail.html

I think the Democratic snipers might take her down tonight before the Secret Service does.

[akhhorus]

Everyone is reporting that the highlight of Bush's speech will be a call to end the dependency to foreign oil. Like it was last year....and the year before....

[fent]

CNN reporting she has already been arrested by capitol police for sneaking a banner in and unfolding it upon sitting down.

[BurgundyNGold]

Everyone is reporting that the highlight of Bush's speech will be a call to end the dependency to foreign oil. Like it was last year....and the year before....
Yeah, it's become cliche like "they can have my gun when they pry it... yada... cold... yada".

[BurgundyNGold]

anyone want to take a stab at what kind of crazy is going to happen tonight?
http://www.nbc11.com/news/6634368/detail.html
Oh, good grief. This loon is starting to make me seriously think about getting onboard with the assisted homicide crowd.

[suppitty]

No mention of Palestine when talking about democracies. Named Iran as a non-democratic country, but I believe they elected that nut. Could be wrong though.

[swheeler]

OK, so we're reducing imports of Middle Eastern oil by 75% by 2025, but I thought the whole Middle East was going to be free and happy by then. Sounds like we're really committed to helping out our new friends.

[RedskinsDave]

CNN reporting she has already been arrested by capitol police for sneaking a banner in and unfolding it upon sitting down.

It turns out it was a t-shirt. I think Woolsey should be reprimanded. Actually, any member whose guest has to be arrested should be reprimanded and never be allowed to give out passes to anything on the Hill grounds. :devil2:

[fent]

It turns out it was a t-shirt. I think Woolsey should be reprimanded. Actually, any member whose guest has to be arrested should be reprimanded and never be allowed to give out passes to anything on the Hill grounds. :devil2:

any clue what it said? not a clue in hades what Woolsey was thinking to give her that.

[akhhorus]

The funniest was McCain going nuts when Bush said he would reduce earmarks and when Bush complaining about his Social Security plan being defeated and the Dems showed some life. Eh, even corpses twitch every now and again.

[fent]

my personal favorite aspect of the evening was seeing the new and improved Malibu Hastert show off his tan.

[RedskinsDave]

Well Kaine is doing nothing to make me change my mind about never leaving children alone with him. What is with that eyebrow?

[Fathead]

Who is this person on my tv?





That was definately softer than years past.

[fent]

Well Kaine is doing nothing to make me change my mind about never leaving children alone with him. What is with that eyebrow?

good lord...if he's not careful he's going to look like stuart scott!!!

[akhhorus]

Well Kaine is doing nothing to make me change my mind about never leaving children alone with him. What is with that eyebrow?

He looks like a villan on 24. I can see him saying: "Mr President, you have 6 hours, or the only way you'll ever see Chicago is as a memory...."

[akhhorus]

I think Jeff Greenfield nailed right after the speech when he said that Bush, only last year was talking of bold plans and big visions for the future, and tonight he's proposing presidential commissions? Bi-partisan panals? wtf?

[dj_stouty]

One quick observation...

If Hillary wants to make a push for President in two years, she better start showing some respect for the postion. Repeatedly rolling your eyes during the SOTU and playing up the camera probably doesn't sit well with undecided voters going into '08.

Remember...this isn't the first time she has done that. She did that crap during Bush's speach immediately after 9/11.

I'm really starting to despise that lady.

[RedskinsDave]

One quick observation...

If Hillary wants to make a push for President in two years, she better start showing some respect for the postion. Repeatedly rolling your eyes during the SOTU and playing up the camera probably doesn't sit well with undecided voters going into '08.

Remember...this isn't the first time she has done that. She did that crap during Bush's speach immediately after 9/11.

I'm really starting to despise that lady.

Why should she have respect for it, her husband didn't.......

[Ibleedburgundy]

One quick observation...

If Hillary wants to make a push for President in two years, she better start showing some respect for the postion. Repeatedly rolling your eyes during the SOTU and playing up the camera probably doesn't sit well with undecided voters going into '08.

Remember...this isn't the first time she has done that. She did that crap during Bush's speach immediately after 9/11.

I'm really starting to despise that lady.


I really hope she does not win the primaries and if she does I hope McCain is the Republican candidate.

I thought Bush did pretty well by Bush standards.

Kaine started out pretty shaky but I think he improved as the speech went on.

[OCSkinzFan]

Why should she have respect for it, her husband didn't.......
Neither did the house Repubs until they sunk Bush in there.

[OCSkinzFan]

I really hope she does not win the primaries and if she does I hope McCain is the Republican candidate.

I thought Bush did pretty well by Bush standards.

Kaine started out pretty shaky but I think he improved as the speech went on.
I wanted McCain to run against Gore in 2000. Think how much better off we'd be with McCain in office right now.

[Spence]

Bi-partisan panals? wtf?The purpose of bipartisan panels and commissions is to bury an issue a president wants buried. That tax commission Bush set up reported last year and everyone -- Dems and Repubs -- hated their proposals. This new commission will have instructions to report back to the president promptly...in February 2009.

And after weeks of leaking to the media that healthcare would play a big role in the speech, he winds up giving one paragraph to it. What must have happened there is they did some polling of the HSA and the results were as ugly as the Social Security privatization.

[Ibleedburgundy]

Seems Sheehan was not the only person asked to leave.

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. -- The wife of Rep. C.W. Bill Young, R-Indian Shores, told a newspaper that she was ejected during the State of the Union address for wearing a T-shirt that says, "Support the Troops Defending Our Freedom."

Beverly Young told the St. Petersburg Times that she was sitting in the front row of the House gallery Tuesday night when she was approached by someone who told her she needed to leave.

She said she reluctantly agreed, but argued with several officers in an outside hallway.

In a telephone interview with the newspaper, Young said she told them her shirt wasn't a protest but a message of support.

http://www.local6.com/news/6647094/detail.html

[fent]

yeah, i just saw this. I'm a little surprised that a member allowed his wife to try and pull that off.

[akhhorus]

yeah, i just saw this. I'm a little surprised that a member allowed his wife to try and pull that off.

That was really stupid. Instead of using sheehan to slam the dems, the story is a bipartisan one.

[Axegrinder]

As reported on MSNBC,it turns out that the two women didn't break any laws and that the Capitol Police made a mistake.

[Spence]

As reported on MSNBC,it turns out that the two women didn't break any laws and that the Capitol Police made a mistake.Yeah, the Capitol Police have apologized, as well they should. I need to do some research because I can't recall it off the top of my head anymore, but I think a case where people holding a prayer vigil were arrested for staging an illegal protest and the case went to court, where it was ruled that a prayer vigil is not an illegal protest. I think this t-shirt case is appropos. The women were not disrupting anything. If they'd stood up and started shouting at Bush or each other, that would have been a disruption. Merely sitting in House and wearing a t-shirt is NOT a protest. The State of the Union isn't a Bush election event, where anyone with a dissenting opinion is attacked and ejected like a virus. A preposterous over-reaction.

[Ibleedburgundy]

I think there should be a dress code. People should be required to dress formally, otherwise, where do you draw the line? The men should be required to wear a standard suit and tie (they all do anyway) and the women should be required to wear something equivalent. No T-shirts.

Rather than throwing them out I think somebody should have lent them a jacket or something.

[akhhorus]

Yeah, the Capitol Police have apologized, as well they should. I need to do some research because I can't recall it off the top of my head anymore, but I think a case where people holding a prayer vigil were arrested for staging an illegal protest and the case went to court, where it was ruled that a prayer vigil is not an illegal protest. I think this t-shirt case is appropos. The women were not disrupting anything. If they'd stood up and started shouting at Bush or each other, that would have been a disruption. Merely sitting in House and wearing a t-shirt is NOT a protest. The State of the Union isn't a Bush election event, where anyone with a dissenting opinion is attacked and ejected like a virus. A preposterous over-reaction.

I believe someone wearing an anti-CLinton shirt was ejected during the 90s. It probably won Dave some brownie points though....:D

[Spence]

I believe someone wearing an anti-CLinton shirt was ejected during the 90s. It probably won Dave some brownie points though....:DYou know what Dave said as they ejected him: "Hey, I've been kicked out of better State of the Union addresses than this one!"

[CNYSkinFan]

We should go back to the days of Washington and just have him deliver a letter on the State of the Union to Congress and skip the whole darn pomp and circumstances (just kidding...kind of)

[Spence]

We should go back to the days of Washington and just have him deliver a letter on the State of the Union to Congress and skip the whole darn pomp and circumstances (just kidding...kind of)You hear that sort of thing a lot during the second term of many presidents. The media get tired of seeing the same guy up there year after year and many of them don't have much to say after five or six years. That was true of Clinton. Bush could have skipped the whole thing and mailed a one-page PowerPoint to each member of Congress and gone to bed early that night.

[RedskinsDave]

I believe someone wearing an anti-CLinton shirt was ejected during the 90s. It probably won Dave some brownie points though....:D

Actually the shirt read: Chappaquiddick Driving Club

[Spence]

In case you had any doubts...One day after President Bush vowed to reduce America's dependence on Middle East oil by cutting imports from there 75 percent by 2025, his energy secretary and national economic adviser said Wednesday that the president didn't mean it literally.

What the president meant, they said in a conference call with reporters, was that alternative fuels could displace an amount of oil imports equivalent to most of what America is expected to import from the Middle East in 2025.

But America still would import oil from the Middle East, because that's where the greatest oil supplies are. You see, this is what the Bush admin should have done with that whole Iraqi WMD mess. "When the President said Iraq had vast supplies of weapons of mass destruction, he didn't mean it literally! Jeez, what's the matter with you people?"

It's not true, but it IS, as Steve Colbert would say, "truthiness." And isn't that better than the actual truth anyway?

Source (http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/news/nation/13767738.htm?source=rss&channel=krwashington_nation)

[Axegrinder]

This whole thing is ridiculous.
I guess that some folks like being misled.

[Spence]

This is pretty hard to square with Mr Bush's professed interest in alternative fuels:The Energy Department will begin laying off researchers at the National Renewable Energy Laboratory in the next week or two because of cuts to its budget.

A veteran researcher said the staff had been told that the cuts would be concentrated among researchers in wind and biomass, which includes ethanol. Those are two of the technologies that Mr. Bush cited on Tuesday night as holding the promise to replace part of the nation's oil imports.Source (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/02/politics/02energy.html?ei=5090&en=3ad01a40aa743ff5&ex=1296536400&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print)

[VTBob]

This is pretty hard to square with Mr Bush's professed interest in alternative fuels:Source (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/02/politics/02energy.html?ei=5090&en=3ad01a40aa743ff5&ex=1296536400&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print)

silly Bush