Sorry! Another Art Monk thread but check out this guy's work - Very interesting.

[flave1969]

Here is the link.

It is very interesting stuff, Part Two especially.

http://theredskinreport.blogspot.com/2006/01/is-art-monk-hall-of-famer-part-one.html

[whistleandthumb]

I still don't get how Lynn Swann, who only played 8 years and had just over 300 catches for his career gets in over Monk. Mind boggling.

[bwparker]

Big Catches is big games. period. I've said it before and I will no doubt say it again: its the Hall of Fame, NOT the Hall of Greatness.

[DoGood]

Big Catches is big games. period. I've said it before and I will no doubt say it again: its the Hall of Fame, NOT the Hall of Greatness.

Cooool! Nice bw.

[Biggie]

The fact of the matter is that one of our greatest Redskins is being stonewalled by a fat ugly Giants homer with his own column and a set of "journalist" cronies. The institution is a joke for as long as he gets a vote.

[bwparker]

Just started reading the article. Great stuff, I love all these stats and such

[bwparker]

Looking at this article the thing that really popped out to me(and I'm sure pops out to the HOF nay sayers as well) is Monk's lack of TDs. He matches up admirably in every category but falls pretty short on TDs. Which has to hurt him when they talk about important plays and such.

On a similar note, I'd love to see stats on Monk's receptions for 1st downs. As I understand it(I'm a youngin') this is where he shined; 3rd down and getting those tough 1sts. Hopefully that stat could be as telling as we all hope it is. If he stood out above the competition on catches for 1st downs and 3rd down conversions as much as he lags behind in TDs it could help make the difference in some people's minds.

[BigCountry]

Once again I'm sorry to say that this isn't the year guys and this joke they call the Hall of "Fame" will get even lamer.

Take this to the bank:
Aikman (deserves it)
White (deserves it)
Greenwood (70's Steeler so there's no way he's not getting in)
Madden (Media guy...enough said)

It saddens me to say it but I think Darrell Green in a few years is our most likely candidate.

[skins4me]

What I find totally tasteless is you get these blowhards like Peter King telling people who NoT to vote for. These guys should make a case for a players they feel are eligable and stop bad mouthing the others. It's crazy to have this guy campaigning AGAINST someone. Look up the numbers of Jerry Smith and tell me why he isn't in canton, either.

[Keino]

Very interesting reading.

I like How the extrapolated/adjusted numbers show Charley Taylor as one of the Best 3 all time. Pretty good for a guy who places as runner-up anually in the HR poll as best Redskins WR.

Sorry Flave, I had to get my Charley Taylor dig in....

[skins111111]

Peter King is one of the biggest idiots speaking out against Monk heres some thoughts from Czabe-

Peter King’s arguments against Monk include the following….

1. “He was only voted to 3 Pro Bowls.” (Rebuttal: Fine, so was Charlie Joiner, Lynn Swann, and John Stallworth. It’s also worth noting, John Riggins only went to ONE Pro Bowl. Tells you what that’s worth.

2. “Modern wideout numbers are threatening to obliterate Monk’s catch total.” He cites Keenan McCardell, Jimmy Smith, Marvin Harrison as examples. Okay fine. But they aren’t Monk’s contemporaries. If you look up at Pro Football Reference the list of Most Catches in a Season, the staggering number of 100-plus catch years is amazing. Monk’s 106 in 1984 is notable however in one very important respect. It’s the ONLY such mark from the entire decade! Once 1993 rolled around, wideouts began racking up 100 catch seasons like it was nothing. Hell, even scrubs like Brett Perriman had 100-ball years!

3. “Monk was the 4th most dangerous weapon on those Redskin teams.” Please. Ricky Sanders, while a nice compliment wideout, could hardly be considered a “bigger weapon” than Monk. Comments like this really make you question King’s ability to judge ANYTHING in regard to pro football.

[smoak]

Big Catches is big games. period. I've said it before and I will no doubt say it again: its the Hall of Fame, NOT the Hall of Greatness.

It should be called the Hall of Popularity.

[CarMike]

Looking at this article the thing that really popped out to me(and I'm sure pops out to the HOF nay sayers as well) is Monk's lack of TDs. He matches up admirably in every category but falls pretty short on TDs. Which has to hurt him when they talk about important plays and such.

On a similar note, I'd love to see stats on Monk's receptions for 1st downs. As I understand it(I'm a youngin') this is where he shined; 3rd down and getting those tough 1sts. Hopefully that stat could be as telling as we all hope it is. If he stood out above the competition on catches for 1st downs and 3rd down conversions as much as he lags behind in TDs it could help make the difference in some people's minds.
8 guys on that list has more TDs than Monk. Monk is 3rd on the list in catches. And no one comes close to him in catches. Largent is the next closest but he's 121 behind Monk.

Monk is not in the HOF for one reason, and one reason only. He played for the Washington Redskins.

[flave1969]

Very interesting reading.

I like How the extrapolated/adjusted numbers show Charley Taylor as one of the Best 3 all time. Pretty good for a guy who places as runner-up anually in the HR poll as best Redskins WR.

Sorry Flave, I had to get my Charley Taylor dig in....

Nothing but the ultimate respect for Charley, he was a great great player. The hardest of any votes for me is between Art Monk and Charley Taylor.

[smoak]

8 guys on that list has more TDs than Monk. Monk is 3rd on the list in catches. And no one comes close to him in catches. Largent is the next closest but he's 121 behind Monk.

Monk is not in the HOF for one reason, and one reason only. He played for the Washington Redskins.

I hate to think that way, but I honestly can not come up with another explanation.

I wonder if there are other teams out there with 1 player on a team that won multiple Super Bowls. ARGH!!!:banghead: :banghead:

[Keino]

Nothing but the ultimate respect for Charley, he was a great great player. The hardest of any votes for me is between Art Monk and Charley Taylor.


Yea. I certainly wasn't trying to detract from Monk. The guy belongs in the Hall and it is a travesty that he's not.

[BurgundyNGold]

Nothing but the ultimate respect for Charley, he was a great great player. The hardest of any votes for me is between Art Monk and Charley Taylor.
Well, then I guess I shouldn't bring up Bobby Mitchell... ;)

[flave1969]

Well, then I guess I shouldn't bring up Bobby Mitchell... ;)


What Bobby Mitchell did pre Taylor and Monk in its way is even more phenomenal when you think of the era he played in his stats were amazing. I think we have been very fortunate to have four HOF calibre Wide Receivers, Mitchell and Taylor are in, Monk is being snubbed, Gary Clark never even gets mentioned.

If you add Gary Clark's USFL stats to his NFL totals it reads

755 Catches 11616 Yards 15.4 Avg 67TD's.

Does that statline look familiar?

Yep you guessed it. Michael Irvin. Perceptions are key aren't they.

[Keino]

What Bobby Mitchell did pre Taylor and Monk in its way is even more phenomenal when you think of the era he played in his stats were amazing. I think we have been very fortunate to have four HOF calibre Wide Receivers, Mitchell and Taylor are in, Monk is being snubbed, Gary Clark never even gets mentioned.

If you add Gary Clark's USFL stats to his NFL totals it reads

755 Catches 11616 Yards 15.4 Avg 67TD's.

Does that statline look familiar?

Yep you guessed it. Michael Irvin. Perceptions are key aren't they.

Quoted for emphasis.

Amazing how Steve Young's USFL numbers get factored into the equation but players like Herchel Walker (Who I don't believe to be HOF worthy), Doug Williams and Gary Clark can't get a mention while they put up phenomenal stats in the USFL.

I think Doug belongs in the HOF by the way.

[JoeDaSchmoe]

The whole USFL thing gets more interesting when Warren Moon's name comes up. How much do his CFL numbers factor in? Do the voters care about all the trophies he walked away with in that league?

[helimech24]

I hate to think that way, but I honestly can not come up with another explanation.
I wonder if there are other teams out there with 1 player on a team that won multiple Super Bowls. ARGH!!!:banghead: :banghead:I feel the same way. I don't want to think that there are this many Redskins haters in the media, but they constantly prove that they hate our team.

[ChiefPowhatan17]

It's just a position of circumstance. They want to let in modern day recievers after Monk, who weren't even as good as monk. I think I will throw up if Irving gets in before Monk. Irving will eventually get in cause they always let any cowgirls in.

[flave1969]

Parts Three and Four are up and again they seem to confirm what we all believe.

The one weak link is the TD count but when you consider the fact that Riggins, Rogers, Byner, Riggs racked up 138 TD's as the feature backs in the Redskin Offense you realise what a strong running team we were.

Under Joe Gibbs Washington had 204 Rushing TD's and 271 Passing TD's, that is a 43%-57% ratio, incredible balance.

The 49ers by contrast had 193 Rushing TD's and 341 Passing TD's a ratio of
36%-64% in the same period.

Tell me how many catches yards and TD's do you think Monk would have with Montana and Young as QB's? A lot more IMO.