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fent
02-04-2006, 01:58 PM
http://www.hailredskins.com/Draft/FentMock.htm

Redskinfan28
02-04-2006, 02:04 PM
Wow - I would take that draft any day. I think the Jets will release Abraham so maybe a trade will not be necessary.

fent
02-04-2006, 02:08 PM
Wow - I would take that draft any day. I think the Jets will release Abraham so maybe a trade will not be necessary.

i dunno, after all the hell they've been through with him, i think they'll try to get something back from him. they obviously have a good relationship with our front office. but who knows. i thought i might be stretching a little bit with stovall in the third, but everywhere i've looked has him projected there. of course, that can all change in Indianapolis.

Redskinfan28
02-04-2006, 02:14 PM
i dunno, after all the hell they've been through with him, i think they'll try to get something back from him. they obviously have a good relationship with our front office. but who knows. i thought i might be stretching a little bit with stovall in the third, but everywhere i've looked has him projected there. of course, that can all change in Indianapolis.

Yep. I like Tapp in the 2nd.

ihatedallas
02-04-2006, 02:27 PM
good draft, but do you think Bunley can anchor the 3-4 in Cleveland?

akhhorus
02-04-2006, 02:29 PM
good draft, but do you think Bunley can anchor the 3-4 in Cleveland?

I suspect he would have to play End in the 3-4.

Great draft for us. Wrotten is shooting right back up the draft board since his drug charges have been dismissed.

BurgundyNGold
02-04-2006, 02:32 PM
This is the best mock (for us) that I've seen. I hope it could come off like this, although I'd be a little worried about having 2 speed rushers at DE (Abraham, Tapp).

ihatedallas
02-04-2006, 02:34 PM
I suspect he would have to play End in the 3-4.

Great draft for us. Wrotten is shooting right back up the draft board since his drug charges have been dismissed.

Never thought of that, he would make a good end in a 3-4, kind of like Warren in New England...

fent
02-04-2006, 02:35 PM
This is the best mock (for us) that I've seen. I hope it could come off like this, although I'd be a little worried about having 2 speed rushers at DE (Abraham, Tapp).

i think that if this happened, you'd see daniels and wynn rotating and abraham and wynn rotating at the other spot. helps keep everyone rested and still gives us the balance on the line that we're looking for.

SkinsASchamps
02-04-2006, 02:49 PM
Lots of DTs going for you. I like the Joe Klopfenstein, TE, Colorado pick. He is a guy I really like. I would be real mad if the cowgirls get vince young. I like the titans taking da brick.

fent
02-04-2006, 02:51 PM
Lots of DTs going for you. I like the Joe Klopfenstein, TE, Colorado pick. He is a guy I really like. I would be real mad if the cowgirls get vince young. I like the titans taking da brick.

that will be the best move of the draft for the rest of the NFC East if it happens.

and you're right, there are a lot of DTs but that's what this year's draft brings us. a lot of d-linemen are going to go in the first two rounds.

akhhorus
02-04-2006, 02:56 PM
that will be the best move of the draft for the rest of the NFC East if it happens.

I heard that the Eagles, Skins and Giants will all chip in their 3rd rounders to make it happen....:D

fent
02-04-2006, 02:57 PM
I heard that the Eagles, Skins and Giants will all chip in their 3rd rounders to make it happen....:D

and give up Stovall or Klopfenstein? i'd rather the cowboys just screw it up on their own ;)

akhhorus
02-04-2006, 02:58 PM
and give up Stovall or Klopfenstein? i'd rather the cowboys just screw it up on their own ;)

But the Cowboys with "Ramsey on Rollerskates" for the next 5 years? Might be worth it.....

fent
02-04-2006, 02:58 PM
But the Cowboys with "Ramsey on Rollerskates" for the next 5 years? Might be worth it.....

even this is too high praise...

akhhorus
02-04-2006, 03:02 PM
even this is too high praise...

Wow...so...Heath Shuler on Rollerskates?

fent
02-04-2006, 03:02 PM
Wow...so...Heath Shuler on Rollerskates?

i'll buy that.

HanburgerBum
02-05-2006, 01:32 PM
I heard that the Eagles, Skins and Giants will all chip in their 3rd rounders to make it happen....:D


Sometimes, you should be careful of what you wish for. Why all this disrespect for Vince Young? He is right now a better passer than Michael Vick coming out of college (or even Michael Vick at present). Young has a funny throwing motion, but I heard he had a high pass completion percentage this season. Philip Rivers has an absurdly bad throwing motion, but no one criticized his being picked 4th off the board.

The Skins have always had trouble with mobile QBs. McNabb, and Cunningham before him, ran circles around them. In the Seattle playoff game, even Hasselbeck killed the Skins with his feet. I, for one, would not look forward to facing Vince Young at least twice a season for the next dozen years.

DUCKIN_TACKLERS
02-05-2006, 01:39 PM
I like this draft alot too fent. only things i see is DTs usually dont go that high although I am high on the ones you have going early. Vernon Davis is a bit low IMO. He will probably stay a top 10 with his showing at the combine. Not a whole lot to pick on with this one for me though. But I did have a question about the Abraham thing. In order to trade him would he have to sign his Tender if not that would mean we would be on the hook for paying Arrington his cap hit and then taking another for Abe. IF that is correct that is alot of cap room ate up right there.

akhhorus
02-05-2006, 01:41 PM
Sometimes, you should be careful of what you wish for. Why all this disrespect for Vince Young? He is right now a better passer than Michael Vick coming out of college (or even Michael Vick at present). Young has a funny throwing motion, but I heard he had a high pass completion percentage this season. Philip Rivers has an absurdly bad throwing motion, but no one criticized his being picked 4th off the board.

The Skins have always had trouble with mobile QBs. McNabb, and Cunningham before him, ran circles around them. In the Seattle playoff game, even Hasselbeck killed the Skins with his feet. I, for one, would not look forward to facing Vince Young at least twice a season for the next dozen years.

Young is a great RB, but he has not shown that he can play QB outside the shotgun(which is critical for an NFL QB-it also probably means he can't read a defense, which has been really shown when teams play man to man against him and he consistantly throws into double and triple coverage) or that he can run a real offense. Vick was a much better pure Qb prospect than Young is and he's not developing into the passer people thought he would. Young has great athletism, but little else. Rivers is a bad example for you to use since he was an accomplished pro style QB with a weird throwing motion. Young's is beyond bizarre. He throws it at 3/4 quarters(which there's nothing wrong with for an nfl QB), but he pushes the ball instead of throwing it, which means his deep balls really sail and he can't throw it into timing patterns, just to very open Wideouts. Look at Danny Weuffel's deep balls, because Young throws it in a similar fashion. Young needs to go to a team where he can sit and learn to actually play QB. Dallas would push him out on to the field long before he is ready to play.

And as for mobile Qbs, yes its a dimension that adds something to an offense(and Hasselback doesn't count, he-like Simms the week before him-ran for a TD but neither are mobile QBs), but any benefits you would get from a running QB are negated by the fact that just about all of them are terrible pure QBs(the reason Mark Brunell has an outside shot at the Hall of Fame is because he was a mobile Qb who was also a great pure passer). McNabb and McNair are, but they only became good Qbs when they stopped running and stayed in the pocket.

fent
02-05-2006, 04:14 PM
I like this draft alot too fent. only things i see is DTs usually dont go that high although I am high on the ones you have going early. Vernon Davis is a bit low IMO. He will probably stay a top 10 with his showing at the combine. Not a whole lot to pick on with this one for me though. But I did have a question about the Abraham thing. In order to trade him would he have to sign his Tender if not that would mean we would be on the hook for paying Arrington his cap hit and then taking another for Abe. IF that is correct that is alot of cap room ate up right there.

davis's size has him slipping a little bit right now. his combine numbers could very well boost him again, but he's going to be the hardest player in this draft to pin down. as for arrington for abraham, if it happened, you'd see a sign and trade much like bailey for portis which would allow us to avoid any major cap problems. if i remember correctly, denver and Champ negotiated a deal, he signed it with us, then we traded him under the new contract which allowed us to not take a huge hit.

fent
02-05-2006, 04:20 PM
Young is a great RB, but he has not shown that he can play QB outside the shotgun(which is critical for an NFL QB-it also probably means he can't read a defense, which has been really shown when teams play man to man against him and he consistantly throws into double and triple coverage) or that he can run a real offense. Vick was a much better pure Qb prospect than Young is and he's not developing into the passer people thought he would. Young has great athletism, but little else. Rivers is a bad example for you to use since he was an accomplished pro style QB with a weird throwing motion. Young's is beyond bizarre. He throws it at 3/4 quarters(which there's nothing wrong with for an nfl QB), but he pushes the ball instead of throwing it, which means his deep balls really sail and he can't throw it into timing patterns, just to very open Wideouts. Look at Danny Weuffel's deep balls, because Young throws it in a similar fashion. Young needs to go to a team where he can sit and learn to actually play QB. Dallas would push him out on to the field long before he is ready to play.

And as for mobile Qbs, yes its a dimension that adds something to an offense(and Hasselback doesn't count, he-like Simms the week before him-ran for a TD but neither are mobile QBs), but any benefits you would get from a running QB are negated by the fact that just about all of them are terrible pure QBs(the reason Mark Brunell has an outside shot at the Hall of Fame is because he was a mobile Qb who was also a great pure passer). McNabb and McNair are, but they only became good Qbs when they stopped running and stayed in the pocket.

what he said. and to add to it, if you check out his game tape, his completion percentage is high because of the talent he was playing with. even in the rose bowl, very few of his passes met receivers in stride. they either caught a ball thrown behind them or they had to flat out stop. also, he's not bigger, stronger, and faster than every defender in the NFL like he was in college so he's going to get caught and he's going to get hit hard. if you can't outrun everyone and you can't shake everyone off anymore, you have to be able to throw accurately, and he can't do that.

The Skinsinator
02-06-2006, 05:38 PM
Great mock Fent and wouldn't mind it going through a bit as long as Abraham is ready to go in all games, especially our future playoff ones. That really is a reasonable concern with him. Your draft addressed all our needs. We really do need more oline depth especially with our guards. Really hope that is addressed also.

fent
02-07-2006, 08:38 AM
Great mock Fent and wouldn't mind it going through a bit as long as Abraham is ready to go in all games, especially our future playoff ones. That really is a reasonable concern with him. Your draft addressed all our needs. We really do need more oline depth especially with our guards. Really hope that is addressed also.

i think the o-line will be addressed in FA and deep in the draft. we're not looking for superstars just guys that are more than a swinging gate.

LightsoutLA
02-07-2006, 09:07 AM
I really liked this mock draft. I saw that kid Klopinstien in the Senoir Bowl an he really impressed me. Do you think that Tapp could go that high in the second. I saw that Kiper had Tapp projected going in the fourth. You know anthor trade that wouldn't suprise me would be Texans trading down to get Da Brick. Cause the Texans most glaring need right now that I can see is O line.

fent
02-07-2006, 09:33 AM
I really liked this mock draft. I saw that kid Klopinstien in the Senoir Bowl an he really impressed me. Do you think that Tapp could go that high in the second. I saw that Kiper had Tapp projected going in the fourth. You know anthor trade that wouldn't suprise me would be Texans trading down to get Da Brick. Cause the Texans most glaring need right now that I can see is O line.

once you get out of the first round, players have basically a 2-3 round window. I think Tapp SHOULD go in the second, but with this many defensive lineman in the draft we'll probably see a lot of them drop further than their skill dictates.

LightsoutLA
02-07-2006, 09:46 AM
Tapp did look pretty good at the Senior Bowl from what I saw from the first half. I like his motor. But the only think that worries me about Tapp is his size.

HanburgerBum
02-07-2006, 04:48 PM
Young is a great RB, but he has not shown that he can play QB outside the shotgun(which is critical for an NFL QB-it also probably means he can't read a defense, which has been really shown when teams play man to man against him and he consistantly throws into double and triple coverage) or that he can run a real offense. Vick was a much better pure Qb prospect than Young is and he's not developing into the passer people thought he would. Young has great athletism, but little else. Rivers is a bad example for you to use since he was an accomplished pro style QB with a weird throwing motion. Young's is beyond bizarre. He throws it at 3/4 quarters(which there's nothing wrong with for an nfl QB), but he pushes the ball instead of throwing it, which means his deep balls really sail and he can't throw it into timing patterns, just to very open Wideouts. Look at Danny Weuffel's deep balls, because Young throws it in a similar fashion. Young needs to go to a team where he can sit and learn to actually play QB. Dallas would push him out on to the field long before he is ready to play.

And as for mobile Qbs, yes its a dimension that adds something to an offense(and Hasselback doesn't count, he-like Simms the week before him-ran for a TD but neither are mobile QBs), but any benefits you would get from a running QB are negated by the fact that just about all of them are terrible pure QBs(the reason Mark Brunell has an outside shot at the Hall of Fame is because he was a mobile Qb who was also a great pure passer). McNabb and McNair are, but they only became good Qbs when they stopped running and stayed in the pocket.


Didn't we hear the same negatives about McNabb (and Cunningham before him)? What's there to prevent Young from developing into a good passer just like those two? The Cowboys are not stupid. If Young needs seasoning, they will play Bledsoe while Young is learning.

A QB as mobile as Young would present a huge problem for any defense. Just when you think you have everything covered, here comes the QB running or a first down. Defensive players often get so tired chasing such a QB, they have little left in the 4th quarter. I remember McNabb and Cunningham doing that to the Skins defense many times. I would rather Young play somewhere away from the NFC East.

HanburgerBum
02-07-2006, 04:54 PM
what he said. and to add to it, if you check out his game tape, his completion percentage is high because of the talent he was playing with. even in the rose bowl, very few of his passes met receivers in stride. they either caught a ball thrown behind them or they had to flat out stop. also, he's not bigger, stronger, and faster than every defender in the NFL like he was in college so he's going to get caught and he's going to get hit hard. if you can't outrun everyone and you can't shake everyone off anymore, you have to be able to throw accurately, and he can't do that.


And Matt Leinart didn't have great talent around him? Between Leinart and Young, I think I would take the latter. I don't know if Leinart has the arm strength to make all the throws needed at the next level. Young may not either, but at least he has great wheels.

fent
02-07-2006, 05:28 PM
And Matt Leinart didn't have great talent around him? Between Leinart and Young, I think I would take the latter. I don't know if Leinart has the arm strength to make all the throws needed at the next level. Young may not either, but at least he has great wheels.

and we've seen how far that got guys like antonio brown and donte stallworth. the game is not about speed, but overall skill. i've seen a lot of reports lately, even from ESPN, the group that vaulted him into the "top" prospect position now cooling on him as they realize that the thing that made him a great college player, his athleticism, actually hurt him in the long run. he was never forced to learn to be a passer or even the correct mechanics in his throwing motion. you think he's going to be great, i think he's going to blow...that's a fair disagreement, but i won't be surprised when he's either out of the NFL or playing another position in 5 years because he can't throw the ball and can't read defenses.

leinart had great talent around him, but he plays a traditional style, can read defenses, and puts the ball on the spot with regularity. do you really think that Young could have made that 4th and 8 pass against Notre Dame?

akhhorus
02-07-2006, 06:57 PM
Didn't we hear the same negatives about McNabb (and Cunningham before him)? What's there to prevent Young from developing into a good passer just like those two? The Cowboys are not stupid. If Young needs seasoning, they will play Bledsoe while Young is learning.

No, both were accomplished passers in college. McNabb ran a WC offense at Syracuse and he still struggled until he stopped running as a QB. And knowing Jerry and the Dallas fans, Young will be pushed out there way too early. Young

A QB as mobile as Young would present a huge problem for any defense. Just when you think you have everything covered, here comes the QB running or a first down. Defensive players often get so tired chasing such a QB, they have little left in the 4th quarter. I remember McNabb and Cunningham doing that to the Skins defense many times. I would rather Young play somewhere away from the NFC East.

Really? How many running or very mobile Qbs led their teams to the playoffs this past season? Very Mobile/running Qbs might provide an dimension that the defense has to account for, but if he can't pass well because he has happy feet or doesn't know how to run an offense effectively(ie Vick), then thats a major advantage for the defense.

akhhorus
02-07-2006, 07:00 PM
and we've seen how far that got guys like antonio brown and donte stallworth. the game is not about speed, but overall skill. i've seen a lot of reports lately, even from ESPN, the group that vaulted him into the "top" prospect position now cooling on him as they realize that the thing that made him a great college player, his athleticism, actually hurt him in the long run. he was never forced to learn to be a passer or even the correct mechanics in his throwing motion. you think he's going to be great, i think he's going to blow...that's a fair disagreement, but i won't be surprised when he's either out of the NFL or playing another position in 5 years because he can't throw the ball and can't read defenses.

leinart had great talent around him, but he plays a traditional style, can read defenses, and puts the ball on the spot with regularity. do you really think that Young could have made that 4th and 8 pass against Notre Dame?

Does anyone else remember what Mack Brown said he did for Young's development before the Rose Bowl? He said that he was trying to teach him how to be a great pocket Qb, but Young chafed at that and finally he gave up and told him to just play the way he wanted to. Unless Young goes to a team with a strong coach with ownership support who will force him to learn how to be a pocket passer, he's going to be a disaster.

chad101
02-09-2006, 03:24 PM
Did I read that correctly in that you have the Jets giving their 3rd and Abraham for Lavar and a future pick?

Never will happen. Also what was the Jets -Dallas deal?

fent
02-09-2006, 03:28 PM
Did I read that correctly in that you have the Jets giving their 3rd and Abraham for Lavar and a future pick?

Never will happen. Also what was the Jets -Dallas deal?

i don't determine what exactly goes into the draft position trade, i just decide who i think is going to trade with whom and end up picking in those spots. it's too much work to decide what other picks are involved. to get that high, though, it's pretty substantial.

as for the lavar for abraham trade, when you have a guy that obviously doesn't want to play in NY and a new GM, anything can happen.

chad101
02-09-2006, 03:32 PM
i don't determine what exactly goes into the draft position trade, i just decide who i think is going to trade with whom and end up picking in those spots. it's too much work to decide what other picks are involved. to get that high, though, it's pretty substantial.

as for the lavar for abraham trade, when you have a guy that obviously doesn't want to play in NY and a new GM, anything can happen.

Fair enough. I just think the Jets also giving you a 3rd rounder is a little much. Abraham has no problem with NY but does want a long term deal which we may not be able to provide.

Good Mock other than the Lavar-Abe trade.